US President Bush has said there is a ''real and urgent'' need for a missile defence system over Europe.

Mr Bush said the missile threat came from the mid east,not Russia,which strongly opposes sites for the shield in Poland and the Czech Republic.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7058622.stm

Hmm, my first impression is that I'm not a fan. But it's hard to question decisions made based on secretive intelligence reports....Nevertheless, since the Iraq invasion, I don't trust Bush's decision-making when it comes to military intelligence, not to mention intelligence generally...

Bingo, Leper. Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, boy?:drinktoth

My first impressions on this 'shield' are,back to Reagan's star wars system.

Id like to know how much this would cost?

How much money the European states are donating towards this system.

Is this shield offensive as well as defensive.

What is known of Irans missile technology?

Will the system cover Israel also?

A lot of unanswered questions.

Considering the threat as of late, I'm a total fan. It should be ours and Poland's business - no one else's. Fuck Russia - they're down playing the threat of Iran because they're in business together. If Russia were at all concerned about "world stability", then they'd stop exporting AK-47s, for those machine guns (in the hands of the scumbags they're in "business" with) have killed more people than any nuclear weapon or missile ever has. We're just protecting our own, is all.

Ah the AK47.
Best designed product to come out of Russia since Smirnoff.

How about who's picking up the tab for this one?

Ah the AK47.
Best designed product to come out of Russia since Smirnoff.
Did you know that Mozambique has a picture of one on their flag?

Did you know that Mozambique has a picture of one on their flag?Your a wealth of information.

:D Did you know the Soviets had a picture of one on a coin?

Zzzzzzz.
I did know about the flag,tho as u were enjoying yourself I decided to play along,

now the coin,that IS news.

Seen a Russian banknote once,it was like a sheet of fuckn wallpaper.

Seen a Russian banknote once,it was like a sheet of fuckn wallpaper.
And about as valuable, I'm sure.

Of course the Russians vigourously object to missiles in Poland and the Czech Republic....It encroaches very close to their border and they feel threatened.. So would I. Now, if Washington was genuinely truthful, which I seriously doubt, in using these missiles to defend against middle east aggression and terrorism wouldn't it have made alot more sense to have that base situated in Azerbaijan, which Vladimir Putin so generously offered and was totally rejected by Condeleeza Rice and the administration....It's right in the heart of it all and would have been perfect...I don't believe a word that comes out of their mouth, never have and never will.

Yeah, because we indiscriminately launch missiles at random countries all the time. I mean, first and foremost, we've always wanted to go to war with Russia, and the kicker is, these "shields" are essential in achieving that end. If anything, they'd limit Russia's ability to launch missiles at us, but hey - I completely understand your take on this.

Ya know the more I read about this,the more I think its a smokescreen.

The ground is being led for a new arms race.

Ya know the more I read about this,the more I think its a smokescreen.

The ground is being led for a new arms race.
As per usual with this administration, there's a grain of truth in what they're saying, however it's couched in an ulterior motive, and Paul - believe it or not, I agree with you. I think we ARE worried about Russia because of their ties to the Middle East, and moreover, I think we have every reason to be.

Well,the thing about Russia and the ME is simply that they dont want the US getting into all the juicy bits,leaving them with the rocks and the sand.

I believe Russia is as worried about Iranian Nuclear Tech as Washington,but they simply wanna keep in the game.

To me Poland is bullshit to defend against ME attack,too far North and East.

And the Ruskies called Bush's bluff by wanting to co-operate.
Russia is a threat to no one,they cant afford to pay for it.

Russia is a threat to no one,they cant afford to pay for it.
On the contrary, Russia is the only real threat the US faces. We could pretty much shit-stomp everyone else, but not them. I mean, don't get me wrong, our weapons technology is light-years ahead of theirs, but they've got one hell of a navy; some excellent subs and missiles. They're the only country that scares me. China, OTOH, has a looooooooooooong way to go before they're a real threat to us militarily, and I don't care how many standing soldiers they have. We could use drones and eliminate half of 'em.

Hmmm,I aint so sure about the Russian Navy.
Half the surface fleet is tied up at dockside,Vladivostock-Murmansk-Sevastopol.
Half the sub fleet is lying on a beach in the Artic Ocean somewhere.

Apart from that,I havent seen any evidence of Russian 'threat' to US in a long time.

Vladivostock-Murmansk-Sevastopol.
Half the sub fleet is lying on a beach in the Artic Ocean somewhere.
I'm not denying that (for they've decommissioned a fair number of boats over the years), but what they do have in operational condition is pretty damn good.

It's not exactly amateur time when your dealing with the Russian military, but with that said, they do have a nasty habit of losing wars. Come to think of it, maybe you're right. :)

See Im opening your eyes to a whole new world.

Well,the thing about Russia and the ME is simply that they dont want the US getting into all the juicy bits,leaving them with the rocks and the sand.

I believe Russia is as worried about Iranian Nuclear Tech as Washington,but they simply wanna keep in the game.

To me Poland is bullshit to defend against ME attack,too far North and East.

And the Ruskies called Bush's bluff by wanting to co-operate.
Russia is a threat to no one,they cant afford to pay for it.

Things get placed where they do because of the curvature of the earth and the time it takes to launch and intercept.

And about as valuable, I'm sure.
have you priced wallpaper lately? some of it coasts more that using $1 bills.

China has a full arsenal of nuclear weapons.....enough to destroy the world many times over....

On the contrary, Russia is the only real threat the US faces. We could pretty much shit-stomp everyone else, but not them. I mean, don't get me wrong, our weapons technology is light-years ahead of theirs, but they've got one hell of a navy; some excellent subs and missiles. They're the only country that scares me. China, OTOH, has a looooooooooooong way to go before they're a real threat to us militarily, and I don't care how many standing soldiers they have. We could use drones and eliminate half of 'em.
What are your thoughts on North Korea, The Praetorian?

I think this is potentially a smart idea, but how much would it cost?

I think this is potentially a smart idea, but how much would it cost?

Your left breast (metaphorically speaking). You ready to give it up?

The program in charge of delivering the system has run into problems.

The missiles,like those at Fort Greely Alaska and Vandenberg California have teething troubles,which at present run at $10 billion per year,maybe the largest cut of the annual Defence Budget.

Its strange that the Pentagon wants to deploy a system were one already exists.

MEADS:Medium Extended Air Defence System is a joint US-German-Italian system,basically an advanced Patriot system called PAC3.

Its making Russia nervous,it dosent work properly,it costs a fortune.
And only closes a small attack method if ever used.

Your left breast (metaphorically speaking). You ready to give it up?
Hell no. I shall give up no breasts, be they literal or metaphorical! :D

... and moreover, I think we have every reason to be.

Russia has recently stepped up the number of aircraft testing the North American NORAD line.

It is rebuilding its nuclear submarine fleet. The newest has just been launched.

Russia seems to be expanding its nuclear ballistic weapons.

The influx of money from the Russian oil and gas reserves seems to provide the resources necessary for the new military spending.

Have we arrived at the stage where only the US and its allies are allowed WMDs?

No nation should have them,but any responsible nation why not.

Thes counrties will always say ''well they have em''.

Fuck Russia - they recently beat England 2-1 on a plastic pitch soaked in water & likely England will not be at Euro 2008 because of their cheating ways.

What is Russia anyway apart from a nation filled with thieving vodka drinking gypsies?

If that isn't reason enough to build a missile shield I don't know what is. Putin can cry but what the hell is he going to do about it? We should just ship them a few walmart trucks of cheap chinese vodka - that'll shut them up.

The missile shield is a big boondoggle that will never be even used, but if the US wants to waste its money on that instead of feeding children - then its no business of Russia's. If Poland and others want in on the bonanza then more power to them.

Anyway this type of spending normally results in all kind of spin offs - in 20 years we'll have paper thin 20 ft TV screens off the back of this spending - Russia will still be using cathode ray tubes (stolen no doubt)

One thing for sure - you can't trust a Russian - they teach them in school how to steal.

Bring on Croatia eh.

Lets hope Russia dont win in Israel, although I can't see it myself.

A friend of my wife is a doctor - and also Russian.

This chick shoplifts from stores. Even though she is a well paid doctor - she can't resist. It's in their blood. When you get taught from an early age that theft is the key to success then what else can be expected.

A company I used to work at did some projects in Russia - they had to order 2 of everything because for certain one would be stolen.

Considering the threat as of late,

What theat ?

My first impressions on this 'shield' are,back to Reagan's star wars system..

Id like to know how much this would cost?. A lot.

How much money the European states are donating towards this system.. I would guess zero.

Is this shield offensive as well as defensive.. :@@: WTF is a shield going to do?

What is known of Irans missile technology?.
That it is there.

A lot of unanswered questions.

exactly the reason to have a shield.

Hmmm,Im not convinced. Im beginning to see that this is more a scare tactic,against the Russian threat-which dosent exist.

Firstly,the Iranians have no long range missile capability,
secondly,even if they did,who they gonna fire at,Europe?

No,this is a scare tactic more designed to antaginise the Russians,
increase support for the Republicans at home,elections coming up
next year.

Hell anybody with half a brain cell knows this shield is a crock of shit.

It's a technology that doesn't work against a threat that doesn't exist = a golden combination for unlimited corporate raping of the treasury.

until an Iranian nuke hits the US and and people shout about the government not protecting us.
Saying the missle shield doesnt work is just dumb. You have to start somewhere, and usually it takes a few versions of something before it becomes effective. Waiting until we need it to start testing it is short sighted.
And why would Russia care? They can buil d thier own, better shield and sell it to Iran.

So you think this is a european based shield to protect the United States.
Yep,that sounds about right.

You are right. screw Europe. When the crazy mother fucker in Iran get nuclear weapons that can hit Europe and Euroweenies start getting scared we will give them the bird when they ask for our missile shield. I am damn tired of Europe. Those pansy ass bastards wouldn't be able to be pansy ass bastards if we didn't pour billions of dollars and a million gallons of blood into their sorry ass continent. They would subjects of some iron fisted dictator, nazi or commie, take your pick.

You are right. screw Europe. When the crazy mother fucker in Iran get nuclear weapons that can hit Europe and Euroweenies start getting scared we will give them the bird when they ask for our missile shield. I am damn tired of Europe. Those pansy ass bastards wouldn't be able to be pansy ass bastards if we didn't pour billions of dollars and a million gallons of blood into their sorry ass continent. They would subjects of some iron fisted dictator, nazi or commie, take your pick.
Shit,you took that bad,wonder why?

I will agree that if Iran were ever to obtain nukes,the euro hangeron ers would be cued up beating the White House front door.

Lets face it,european people dont want this stuff,were as some governments do.

I personally dont think this stuff does or is for what the White House states.

Firstly.The system doesnt work,the USAF cant get it right.

Secondly.Its claimed its a shield to shoot down Iranian missiles,which Iran dosent have.

Once again,we see Republicans throwing money at military fantasies,
next this system will be used to scare Americans.

Something on the lines of,''oh gee,we need this shield,the Iranians are building nukes,vote for us,youll be safe with us in power''.

Now as to these billions of dollars and a million gallons of blood.

Hope you havnt been watchen the History Channel again.

Most Europeans werent even alive in 1945,it means nothing to them.

They have moved on from war and strength,like to solve things thru talk,

whats wrong with that.

Shit,you took that bad,wonder why?

I will agree that if Iran were ever to obtain nukes,the euro hangeron ers would be cued up beating the White House front door.

Lets face it,european people dont want this stuff,were as some governments do.

I personally dont think this stuff does or is for what the White House states.

Firstly.The system doesnt work,the USAF cant get it right.

Secondly.Its claimed its a shield to shoot down Iranian missiles,which Iran dosent have.

Once again,we see Republicans throwing money at military fantasies,
next this system will be used to scare Americans.

Something on the lines of,''oh gee,we need this shield,the Iranians are building nukes,vote for us,youll be safe with us in power''.

Now as to these billions of dollars and a million gallons of blood.

Hope you havnt been watchen the History Channel again.

Most Europeans werent even alive in 1945,it means nothing to them.

They have moved on from war and strength,like to solve things thru talk,

whats wrong with that.

Western Europeans are fat and happy, I understand. They have moved on from strength and war and put thier faith in negotiation because they know we will come in and protect them when the negotiations with countires wo still have strenth and war as an option break down.
And in case you hadn't noticed, Americans dont give up on something just because it doesn'twork the first time we try it. The shied is possible and will work. It is almost as if people dont want the missle shield to work just to spite Goerge Bush, its juvenile, ignorant and dangerous.

Western Europeans are fat and happy, I understand. They have moved on from strength and war and put thier faith in negotiation because they know we will come in and protect them when the negotiations with countires wo still have strenth and war as an option break down.
And in case you hadn't noticed, Americans dont give up on something just because it doesn'twork the first time we try it. The shied is possible and will work. It is almost as if people dont want the missle shield to work just to spite Goerge Bush, its juvenile, ignorant and dangerous.
Westies are becoming fat and lazy more than happy,anyway,I get your drift.

Yes,Europeans like to negotiate settlements thats true,but why.

Because they have had experience of war on a continent wide scale,tho totally they re own doing,mainly,
Britain
Germany
France

These arrogant pompous old fuckers who thought they were superior to everyone else,caused all the trouble,everybody else paid for it.

The cold war saw euroland divided,America and Russia played out they re 'who is the toughest' game for decades,America won.

Your so called allies have been sucking off America for years.

Why do you think Britain is always involved in US military matters.
They want to be kept at the very top of world events,illusions of
old Imperialism still exists.

The people of Europe have a close historical and cultural link to America,
Americans and Euros can travelat will from each continent,Ive never heard
of,or seen an American attacked in Europe,for being an American,they are
always welcome,but like any family members,they fall out at times.

This shield is political scaremongering,scaring Americans,scareing Europeans and scareing the Russians,the only ones it dosent scare is the fucking Iranians,so,whats the point.

what is scary about a shield?

what is scary about a shield?
Well a number of things.

Some Europeans think the Bush Administration is using this as further war mongering,nothing to do with Europes security.

This shield,locating a missile system so close to Russia is upsetting Euro-Russian relations,which are never great.

Some think this could lead to an arms race and cold war all over again.

should I go on.

Actually, with the way Russia is reacting, I'd say the people who think this might lead to another arms race may not be overly paranoid.

The Russians are typically overreacting. They have to show the world they are still the counterbalance to the US, even though they are far from that now. They have short mans complex, plain and simple.

Actually, with the way Russia is reacting, I'd say the people who think this might lead to another arms race may not be overly paranoid.This is what Im saying,people arent convinced this is an anti Iranian anything.

It is possible that certain elements in the Gov and defence industry would be very happy with an arms race.

The Russians are typically overreacting. They have to show the world they are still the counterbalance to the US, even though they are far from that now. They have short mans complex, plain and simple.Is it healthy to have one superpower in the world?

Is it healthy to have one superpower in the world?

as long as the super power is a democracy I would say yes. If the super power was Russia or China it would be a different world. For one thing there would be no criticism of it.

Maybe thats true.

To be honest your half right.

Europeans know at the back of they're mind,that if the chips are down,the US cavalry will come to the rescue.

I believe this,depending on who the enemy is,in our case,the US was quite happy to allow Britain to keep one foot in Ireland,tho they could have removed them at the drop of a hat.

But they didnt,and you cant turn back time.

However,I believe a new arms race plays into the hands of Russian hardliners,who can crush democracy as an excuse to re arm.

China is the more dangerous,if I had my way,the west would impose haevy tarrifs on all 'made in China' goods.

They're talking about putting men in space,with our money.

Ah, yes, China... I think we'll end up regretting our relationship with China.

Ah, yes, China... I think we'll end up regretting our relationship with China.
As sad as it is to say this, I think you're absolutely right. It might be a short-term gain right now, but eventually, it's gonna be a long-term loss.

Yeah China.

Ya know these people are using western Capitalism and business tactics to beat us at our own game,while keeping power under the guise of communism.

Millions of western jobs have been lost to cheap labor sweat shops.

Western companies are queuing up to relocate there.

We dont make anything anymore-the make it,shoddier,but cheaper.

Maybe this is how they intend to defeat the west,thru the pocket.

Now they are buying up as much oil futures as they can,west and east are on a collision course within the next hundred years.

There's a lot of merit to what you just said, Paul. Sad, isn't it?

In all honesty, I'm somewhat scared of the future.

Yeah I know.

I'll be dead,my coffin will be made in Shanghai.

Pfffft - no way.

My guess is India.