''These people and their beliefs are beneath us,and they should be''.

Thats very strong stuff lad.

I have to confess,I dont like Muslims,call me sectarian.

But ant religion that comes into Europe and upsets the apple cart,

would have they're religion enforced into our schools,

their way of life an equal to ours,is simply not on.

All this demanding this,demanding that.

You're pretty much right, Prae. I'm just saying that Islam has not always been in such a bad state and it won't always be where it is now. We shouldn't be wiping the Muslim world off the face of the Earth because they are now making mistakes that Christians have also made in the past. It's cyclical.
That's a tough spot. When I listen to my heart, I think you're right; when I listen to my head, sometimes I think otherwise. Cyclical or not, there's simply NO reason for them to be acting the way they are in 2007 given modern information, technology, and logic. It's makes no sense, period.

Thats very strong stuff lad.
Perhaps it was. Maybe I used the wrong words. It's not so much the "people", per se - it's the belief system that dictates their personal decisions, freedoms, and rights, and moreover, it's predicated on the fact their doctrine is implemented with an iron fist.

It's absolutely ANTI-every thing we stand for, hence I see them as a threat.

You know, Paul - I was just thinking; you've got a great bit of insight on how we (a cross section of the American people) feel in my country. The Internet is so cool in that sense.

How is that my man

Well, I just mean it's cool that we can communicate so openly about our feelings, opinions, and politics without having to worry about the repercussions. It also helps us geographically challenged Americans understand the perspectives of other people (even if they happen to be repugnant ;))

Now, OTOH, if that ever changes, then the world has truly gone to hell in a hand basket.

Perhaps it was. Maybe I used the wrong words. It's not so much the "people", per se - it's the belief system that dictates their personal decisions, freedoms, and rights, and moreover, it's predicated on the fact their doctrine is implemented with an iron fist.

It's absolutely ANTI-every thing we stand for, hence I see them as a threat.


This is irrelevant to the topic but I just wanna say that DF is an amazing woman. You have a vast amount of knowledge. Not just about Islam, but about everything.

Back on topic, It's not Islam. It's the conflict between those countries supported by the West and those Muslims who are against the West. And both these groups are wrong. People like Bin Laden had a great opportunity to use Islam as an excuse and fuel hate towards the West. For instance, Muslims don't like the government of Saudi Arabia. Especially poor Muslims. When they see an oil rich government that houses the Kaaba being supported by and kind to the West, it creates animosity from Muslims toward the West. It's kind of similar here. Bin laden was able to create animosity from Americans toward Muslims. And if I had the chance to kill off these said Islamic governments, I wouldn't hesitate.

This is irrelevant to the topic but I just wanna say that DF is an amazing woman.
You should sweet-talk her some more; I don't know if she's ever had an Indian. Hubba-bubba.

.....there's simply NO reason for them to be acting the way they are in 2007 given modern information, technology, and logic. It's makes no sense, period.


Exactly the same can be said about the religionists/superstitionist faction in this country.

Believe it of not, on that point, we can agree, FT. I'm no fan of organized religion.

You should sweet-talk her some more; I don't know if she's ever had an Indian. Hubba-bubba.

Typical Prae, i think you're smart to Prae :thumbs:

Goddamn it, Googs - don't start that; I was having too much fun disliking you. :)

You should sweet-talk her some more; I don't know if she's ever had an Indian. Hubba-bubba.
You mixed up me and googs, didn't you. Dammit, we brown guys all look alike!

:lolhit: at Prae...

Thanks googs. I love history and I have been reading anything I could get my hands on since I was not even three years old. I'm also immensely interested in current events and politics, especially because of everything I talk about here. :)

Goddamn it, Googs - don't start that; I was having too much fun disliking you. :)

LOL, I gotta admit it was kinda fun.

Believe it of not, on that point, we can agree, FT. I'm no fan of organized religion.
I have mixed feelings about religion, and I think that's appropriate because the effects of religion are quite the mixed bag. There are good things and bad things that come from religion. I'm not knowledgeable enough to add them all up and conclude once and for all whether we'd be better off without religion.

You mixed up me and googs, didn't you. Dammit, we brown guys all look alike!
No, actually - I was gonna pull a Cartman on him when he corrected me. :D

I was planning on saying, "Indian, Palestinian - whatever...."

But hey, you weren't that far off the mark. ;)

You mixed up me and googs, didn't you. Dammit, we brown guys all look alike!

LOL. I haven't gotten that in awhile.

I love history and I have been reading anything I could get my hands on since I was not even three years old.
You post like it. :)
I'm also immensely interested in current events and politics, especially because of everything I talk about here. :)
Me, too.

I have mixed feelings about religion, and I think that's appropriate because the effects of religion are quite the mixed bag. There are good things and bad things that come from religion. I'm not knowledgeable enough to add them all up and conclude once and for all whether we'd be better off without religion.
That's exactly what my brother said.

That aside, you notice I used the words "organized religion", and that, I truly deplore.

On a related note, there's nothing wrong with having faith in something greater than we are. As a matter of fact, I think it bolsters our humility, and that's a good thing, IMHO. That said, FT could sure use a dose of it.

I love history and I have been reading anything I could get my hands on since I was not even three years old. I'm also immensely interested in current events and politics, especially because of everything I talk about here. :)

Like Prae said, it shows.



Me, too.

And it shows for you too.

Thank you, Googs. :)

Dark Fantasy, you are acting as an apologist for Islam. You say the Muslims are poor. This is not actually true. There are many wealthy Muslims. bin Ladin is one. You say the Muslims have not had some sort of reconfiguration of their religion like Christians have. That is there fault and no one else's. You say they are very religious. Is that a good thing when they interpret their religion in the way they do?

I don't really care why so many Muslims act as they do. I care about the fact that they do act that way. I am not a sociologist trying to understand the poor, misunderstood Muslims. I am someone trying to survive their violent behavior. I am sure that the sixteen year old girl who was being stoned to death, the young homosexual man who was being hung, the girl who was forced back into a burning building to die because she wasn't properly clothed didn't say, "Oh, the poor beknighted Muslims. They are misunderstood." It doesn't matter why they do these things as much as it matters that they do them.

I am not being an apologist for the Muslims, I was just saying that Prae is being a little harsh when he suggests that we should blow up that entire part of the world and kill all the Muslims. Surely you don't agree with that?

I never ever said that anything they do is right. Maybe you are not concerned with the reasons behind the current state of the Muslim world, but some other people might be. I do not post simply for your benefit, Frogger.

And when you say that not all Muslims are poor, I would not argue with you. The rich Muslims, like your example of bin Laden, are the ones I'm referring to when I talk about the unscrupulous people who use Muslims' devout beliefs to control and oppress them.

Surely you don't believe that Islam is the only reason for the violence in that part of the world. You act as if there have never been other acts of heinous violence and oppression anywhere else or by anyone other than Muslims.

....there's nothing wrong with having faith in something greater than we are. As a matter of fact, I think it bolsters our humility, and that's a good thing, IMHO. That said, FT could sure use a dose of it.

:rolleyes:

"faith" is --IMO-- fit only for superstitious ignoramuses.

__________________________

"Humanity's first sin was faith; the first virtue was doubt" — Mike Huben

Surely you don't believe that Islam is the only reason for the violence in that part of the world.

No, it is not the only reason but it is the major reason. The violence is being committed in the name of Allah and Islam. They are stoning young girls, killing homosexuals, forcing women to wear veils, refusing to allow girls to attend school, etc. in the name of Islam not in the name of anything else.

People can give all the other reasons they want but the simple truth is Islam is a religion of violence that is still mired in the fifteenth century.

Surely you don't believe that Islam is the only reason for the violence in that part of the world.

One of the primary reasons for the violence in that part of the world is the campaign of genocide being carried out against Muslims by the Zionists in Israel.

The Muslim's actions are in large part a response to the ongoing murder and theft being carried out by Israel.

Are you trying to convince us that Muslims stone young girls who have been raped, hang homosexuals, force young girls back into a burning building and blow each other up because of Israel?

I thought you were smarter than that, Freethinker.

Are you trying to convince us that Muslims stone young girls who have been raped, hang homosexuals, force young girls back into a burning building and blow each other up because of Israel?

No.

They are motivated by the same thing that causes all other religious outrages to be committed; ignorance and superstition.

But a very large part of the general unrest in that section of the world stems from the Muslim's reaction to Israel's heinous policies; their confiscation of Palestinian land, their demolition of Palestinian homes, and the wanton arrests and torture and killing of Palestinian civilians.

Please name another religion that acts as the Muslims act. Don't tell me what they did during the Dark Ages. Tell me which religions are presently hanging homosexuals, stoning rape victims, forcing young girls back into burning buildings.

The worse the Christians can claim is the Rev. Mr. Phelps who spouts hate speech. I don't remember reading about him killing anyone though.

I realize you hate all religions but even you should be able to recognize the difference in intensity and kind that differentiates the Muslim religion from all other religions. The only thing even close within the last few centuries was the Thugees of India and they were wiped out.

But a very large part of the general unrest in that section of the world stems from the Muslim's reaction to Israel's heinous policies; their confiscation of Palestinian land, their demolition of Palestinian homes, and the wanton arrests and torture and killing of Palestinian civilians.
That's part of it, no doubt, but Israel certainly isn't the reason Muslims are interacting like a bunch of mindless barbarians in 2007. They're not killing people in the name of Israel and the US; they're killing people in the name of Allah. Both countries have been labeled an "enemy" of Islam, and as such, their religious leaders have essentially issued an edict declaring war on us by proxy. Why? Well, because ostensibly, we support the same people that've been in power for 50 years. Well, you tell me, smart guy - whose fault is that? We have no choice but to do business with these people - their resources directly affect the global economy, and due to that one fact alone, we're gonna be there whether you like it or not.

There's a bigger picture here, and we're responsible for shaping it. In a utopian world, you'd be correct and we'd have no business there, but unfortunately, we live in reality. Deal with it.