China Issues Warning on Dalai Lama Trip

By JOSEPH KAHN
Published: October 17, 2007

BEIJING, Oct. 16 — Chinese officials warned the United States on Tuesday not to honor the Dalai Lama, saying a planned award ceremony in Washington for the Tibetan spiritual leader would have “an extremely serious impact” on relations between the countries.

Speaking at a Foreign Ministry briefing and on the sidelines of the Communist Party’s 17th National Congress, the officials condemned the Dalai Lama as a resolute separatist and said foreign leaders must stop encouraging his “splittist” mission.

“Such a person who basely splits his motherland and doesn’t even love his motherland has been welcomed by some countries and has even been receiving this or that award,” Tibet’s Communist Party boss, Zhang Qingli, told reporters during the congress.

“We are furious,” Mr. Zhang said. “If the Dalai Lama can receive such an award, there must be no justice or good people in the world.”

The Dalai Lama, a Nobel laureate, has lived in exile since the Chinese army crushed an uprising in his homeland in 1959 and is revered as the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhists. He is scheduled to receive the Congressional Gold Medal on Wednesday.

rest of article (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/17/world/asia/17tibet.html?hp)

What the hell is Congress doing? First they try to bust Turkey's chops & get smacked around for talking about Armenians, now they're pissing off China over a medal for the Dalai Lama. What's next - most favored trade status for an independent Taiwan?

Since when do we take orders or listen to threats from Communist China?

Dont understand some Americans.
The United States portrays itself as the champon of freedom,yet all over these boards posters have complained about,Armenian killings,and now,the Dalai Lama.
Is it a case of selective freedom,the Chinese and in fact Turkey for that matter,have amongst the worst human rights records there is.

But then again,we wouldnt want to rock the boat would we.

What the hell is Congress doing? First they try to bust Turkey's chops & get smacked around for talking about Armenians, now they're pissing off China over a medal for the Dalai Lama. What's next - most favored trade status for an independent Taiwan?

I would hope that that is exactly what the United States will do, es347fan. While I agree that the Democrats are blatantly using the Armenian situation for political advantage it is about time we stopped denying the holocaust that occured in Turkey. It is also time we recognized Taiwan as a free and independent country. It is hypocritical of us to deny Taiwan the same status we ourselves expected and got when we broke away from England. It is also hypocritical of us to deny that China overran an independent Tibet, committing genocide and mass relocations of the population.

We either stand for certain things or we do not.

Dont understand some Americans.
The United States portrays itself as the champon of freedom,yet all over these boards posters have complained about,Armenian killings,and now,the Dalai Lama.
Is it a case of selective freedom,the Chinese and in fact Turkey for that matter,have amongst the worst human rights records there is.

But then again,we wouldnt want to rock the boat would we.

You aren't alone.
I don't get understand some Americans either. They defy logic and common sense.

I don't "get" the motivation for bringing the Armenian issue to the forefront at this time. Relations with Turkey are difficult even in the best of times.

I would sugest the US needs Turkey more than the other way around.
What with access to Iraq,and those listening posts for the Ruskies.

Our relationship with Turkey has been strained since 2003, when they refused to let us stage any troops in Turkey (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,906056,00.html) to access northern Iraq.

Well,as the Kurds are very buddie like with Washington,
and Iraq is under the 'protection' of the US,
it will become very difficult for the White House if the Turkish Army
go into N.Iraq.

Strained, yes, Dharmabum but not completely destroyed as Nancy Pelosi would like to see happen.

While I agree that the genocide was horrible it was not done by the Turkish government but by the Ottoman Empire government. It occured almost one hundred years ago. We can decry genocide without insulting our allies. It would be as if We were to bring genocide proceedings against Spain for its treatment of the Caribs, or if France was to bring genocide proceedings against the U.S. for Wounded Knee and Sand Creek.

Pelosi wants the resolution in order to sunder relations between the United States and Turkey so they will close our air base and refuse us overflight priveledges. It is simply a back door way to stop logistical support for troops in Iraq.

Well,as the Kurds are very buddie like with Washington,
and Iraq is under the 'protection' of the US,
it will become very difficult for the White House if the Turkish Army
go into N.Iraq.

Yes it is, but that is something they have been threatening to do since we invaded, because they have felt their security has been compromised by all the refugees that tried to get into their country.

Yes it is, but that is something they have been threatening to do since we invaded, because they have felt their security has been compromised by all the refugees that tried to get into their country

While they have been threatening to do so they have not yet done so. The reason they have not yet done so is the U.S. opposition to such a move. If Pelosi gets her way the U.S. will lose all influence over Turkey.

I think that is what Nancy wants. She is willing to sacrifice our relations with Turkey to stop logistical support for the troops.

what is china going to do, stop sending over thier lead coated toys?

[QUOTE=Frogger]It is also time we recognized Taiwan as a free and independent country. QUOTE]

If Texas tomorrow declared itself an independant and free country, would we want China involved? Would we like for China to have any say in the matter?
Would we like it if China recognized Texas as a free and independent country? Think a little before you speak...

If we were oppresive and communist and they were advocating freedom for Texas ya.

[QUOTE=Frogger]It is also time we recognized Taiwan as a free and independent country. QUOTE]

If Texas tomorrow declared itself an independant and free country, would we want China involved? Would we like for China to have any say in the matter?
Would we like it if China recognized Texas as a free and independent country? Think a little before you speak...


If Texas were to declare itself independent, form its own govt., and act as an independent nation, for sixty years, I would have no problem with China, or any other nation recognizing that fact.
Would you?

[QUOTE=MeskDXB]


If Texas were to declare itself independent, form its own govt., and act as an independent nation, for sixty years, I would have no problem with China, or any other nation recognizing that fact.
Would you?

Read the question. I did not ask if YOu would be ok with Texas declaring itself independent. My question was that would you like it if China was involved. Please read carefully before posting.

Read the question. I did not ask if YOu would be ok with Texas declaring itself independent. My question was that would you like it if China was involved. Please read carefully before posting.


As I said, fuckhead, not if TEXAS functioned as an independent nation for 60 years. READ MY REPLY, CAREFULLY, asshole, then :upyours:

Would you guys suggest Taiwan integrating back into China if China was a democracy?

Lets face it,it is part of China.

Would you guys suggest Taiwan integrating back into China if China was a democracy?

Lets face it,it is part of China.

Only if the Taiwanese people wanted to.

“If the Dalai Lama can receive such an award, there must be no justice or good people in the world.”

An extraordinary statement from a representative of a murderous regime.

We should pay no mind to their threats on this matter. All bluster aside, the Chinese will always do what they perceive is in their own self-interest.

What the hell is Congress doing?Why no mention of concerns about Bush meeting the Lama in the White House residence?

As I said, fuckhead, not if TEXAS functioned as an independent nation for 60 years. READ MY REPLY, CAREFULLY, asshole, then :upyours:

Otherwise, you would be ok with China interfering in our affairs? Yeah right...grow up tough guy! ("fuckhead"?, "asshole"?, middle finger?) - you are so classy!

- you are so classy!Pretty immoderate, huh? Get it, im-moderate... :lolhit: Oh, well. I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Otherwise, you would be ok with China interfering in our affairs? Yeah right...grow up tough guy! ("fuckhead"?, "asshole"?, middle finger?) - you are so classy!

And you are still a fool, who can't comprehend the written word. If any state declared its independence, and our government allowed it to function for 60 years as an independent country (as Taiwan has), I would have no problem with another country recognizing that fact. Nor would I consider that interfering in "our" affairs.

Remember this question? Its the one I answered.

Would we like it if China recognized Texas as a free and independent country?

Pretty immoderate, huh? Get it, im-moderate... :lolhit: Oh, well. I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


There is no moderation when dealing with this type individual:

What is a Pud-Puller?
"There are two factions within the Missouri Libertarian Party. One
consists of a militant faction, nicknamed the "Shooters," who want to
take back individual rights away from the government by any means
necessary, preferably through political and peaceful means first. There
is another faction, called the "Pud-Pullers," who wish to do nothing
more than sit around a restaurant beer-table, argue economics, politics,
whine about how bad the government is, and otherwise treat the MoLP as an extension of their own personal genitalia to play with."

I don't limit the term to the MoLP, but apply it equally to all that fit the profile.

Strained, yes, Dharmabum but not completely destroyed as Nancy Pelosi would like to see happen.

While I agree that the genocide was horrible it was not done by the Turkish government but by the Ottoman Empire government. It occured almost one hundred years ago. We can decry genocide without insulting our allies. It would be as if We were to bring genocide proceedings against Spain for its treatment of the Caribs, or if France was to bring genocide proceedings against the U.S. for Wounded Knee and Sand Creek.

Pelosi wants the resolution in order to sunder relations between the United States and Turkey so they will close our air base and refuse us overflight priveledges. It is simply a back door way to stop logistical support for troops in Iraq.

In another thread you posted:

"I would hope that that is exactly what the United States will do, es347fan. While I agree that the Democrats are blatantly using the Armenian situation for political advantage it is about time we stopped denying the holocaust that occured in Turkey. It is also time we recognized Taiwan as a free and independent country. It is hypocritical of us to deny Taiwan the same status we ourselves expected and got when we broke away from England. It is also hypocritical of us to deny that China overran an independent Tibet, committing genocide and mass relocations of the population.

We either stand for certain things or we do not."

I agree that we should call the massacres in Armenia what they were, regardless if the Turks are embarrassed about it or not.

I'm curious as to why you think we should recognize the genocide, yet conclude that Pelosi is wrong for doing so.

Maybe someday,probally around the middle of March some year,some Irish American at a $1000 a chair dinner will say Britain waged genocide against Ireland during the Famine.

Nah,the more I think about it,the less likely that will ever happen.

What is a Pud-Puller?
"There are two factions within the Missouri Libertarian Party. One
consists of a militant faction, nicknamed the "Shooters," who want to
take back individual rights away from the government by any means
necessary, preferably through political and peaceful means first. There
is another faction, called the "Pud-Pullers," who wish to do nothing
more than sit around a restaurant beer-table, argue economics, politics,
whine about how bad the government is, and otherwise treat the MoLP as an extension of their own personal genitalia to play with."
How quaint!

I'm curious as to why you think we should recognize the genocide, yet conclude that Pelosi is wrong for doing so.To jump in here: I don't know about Frogger's position in all these matters, but for many it is so much easier to blame the Dems. in Congress whenever possible, rather than admit yet another example of the administration's foreign affairs ineptitude.

In another thread you posted:

"I would hope that that is exactly what the United States will do, es347fan. While I agree that the Democrats are blatantly using the Armenian situation for political advantage it is about time we stopped denying the holocaust that occured in Turkey. It is also time we recognized Taiwan as a free and independent country. It is hypocritical of us to deny Taiwan the same status we ourselves expected and got when we broke away from England. It is also hypocritical of us to deny that China overran an independent Tibet, committing genocide and mass relocations of the population.

We either stand for certain things or we do not."

I agree that we should call the massacres in Armenia what they were, regardless if the Turks are embarrassed about it or not.

I'm curious as to why you think we should recognize the genocide, yet conclude that Pelosi is wrong for doing so.

Yes, there is a seeming contradiction. It has to do with timing and purpose, Vilepagan. The genocide against the Armenians was not committed by the nation of Turkey but by the Ottoman Empire. I at first thought the genocide was more recent and done by the present Turkish government. Upon looking further into the matter I found it was not done by Turkey. If memory serves me correctly it was committed in 1915, almost 100 years ago. There would be no more purpose in condemning present day Turkey for a crime committed by the Ottoman Empire, an empire Turkey broke away from, than blaming Ecuador for crimes committed against the indigenous indians by Spain.

Nancy Pelosi attempted to get the resolution passed simply to close down a supply route for logistical support for our troops in Iraq.

Nancy Pelosi attempted to get the resolution passed simply to close down a supply route for logistical support for our troops in Iraq.First off, how in the hell can you, usual an objective player here, state with such sureness her motive?

Something to chew on:
Currently, less than 10 percent of Turks view the United States favorably and that percentage is likely to decline further given the events of the past week. In the late 1980s the favorable percentage was closer to 90. What has happened in the intervening time to change that? Congressional grandstanding by Pelosi and company is partly to blame, but most of the decline in Turkish support for the U.S. is a result of the Iraq war and also the inability or unwillingness of the Bush Administration to do anything about the terrorists who are using Iraq's Kurdish region as a base of operations.

More of the article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-giraldi/nancy-pelosi-and-the-arme_b_68449.html

If Turkey didnt commit genocide,what are they bitchen about.

To jump in here: I don't know about Frogger's position in all these matters, but for many it is so much easier to blame the Dems. in Congress whenever possible, rather than admit yet another example of the administration's foreign affairs ineptitude.

The resolution is coming from the House. The resolution is being promoted by dems. Thus dems are being rightly blamed for needlessly anatagonizing an ally.

The resolution is coming from the House. The resolution is being promoted by dems. Thus dems are being rightly blamed for needlessly anatagonizing an ally.

You are quite wrong, as usual, Waldo.

The resolution is bipartisan (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c110:1:./temp/~c110uysyTw::) and is supported by hard-right wingers like Joe Knollenberg.

Are you trying to tell us that it isn't being promoted by the House or that it isn't being promoted be dems? Your link doesn't speak to either of those.

Dems do control the house therefore they are in control of the timing of the resolution.

Are you telling us that it is a good time to bring forward this resolution?

I think it is a mole hill being made into a mountain.

First off, how in the hell can you, usual an objective player here, state with such sureness her motive?



As with any discussion we form our conclusions based on past performance. Nancy Pelosi has publicly stated that she wants to end the war in Iraq and bring the soldiers home as quickly as she can. She has been thwarted in her attempts to have the Democrat led House of Representatives bring the troops home. If Turkey is antagonized enough by the United States government it will shut down our air base and suspend any flyover rights we have thereby crippling the logistical lresupply necessary to successfully prosecute the war. The troops will, in effect, be starved for materials necessary to fight.

Ms. Pelosi is not a stupid woman and knows that this would be the result of her proposed official condemnation of Turkey for a genocide that took place almost 100 years ago when the country was part of the Ottoman Empire.

My question to you is, how can you, someone who is usually perceptive not see the ulterior motives of Ms. Pelosi?

My question to you is, how can you, someone who is usually perceptive not see the ulterior motives of Ms. Pelosi?I suppose it takes an awful lot of evidence for me to jump on the conspiracy train. Evidence I do not see here.

For the record, Mrs. Pelosi did not release the bill from Committee, that was done by Bill Schiff.