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coberst
10-15-2007, 06:16 AM
I have a strong desire to comprehend stuff

I claim that comprehending is a hierarchy and can usefully be thought of as a pyramid. At the base of the pyramid is awareness that is followed by consciousness, which is awareness plus attention. Knowing follows consciousness and understanding is at the pinnacle of the pyramid.

Two aspects of this comprehension idea deserve elaboration: consciousness and understanding.

When I was a youngster, probably seven or eight, my father took me with him when he drove to a local farm to pick corn for use in the café the family managed. We drove for a significant amount of time down local dirt roads to a farm with a field of growing corn.

We went into the fields with our bushel baskets and filled them with corn-on-the-cob. Dad showed me how to choose the corn to pick and how to snatch the cob from the stalk.

On the drive home I was amazed to observe the numerous fields of corn we passed on the way back to town. I can distinctly remember thinking to myself, why did I not see these fields of corn while we were driving to the farm earlier?

Today I have an answer to that question. I now say that on the way to the farm I was aware of corn-on-the-cob but on the way back home I was conscious of corn-on-the-cob. There was a very significant difference in my perceptions regarding corn-on-the-cob before and after the experience.

We are aware of many things but conscious of only a small number of things. We were aware of Iraq before the war but now we are conscious of Iraq. There is a very important distinction between awareness and consciousness and it is important for us to recognize this difference.

To be conscious of a matter signifies a focus of the intellect. Consciousness of a matter is the first step, which may lead to an understanding of the matter. Consciousness of a matter is a necessary condition for knowing and for understanding of that matter. Consciousness is a necessary but not sufficient condition for knowing and understanding to take place.

When discussing a topic about which I am knowledgeable most people will, because they recognize the words I am using, treat the matter as old stuff. They recognize the words therefore they consider the matter as something they already know and do not consider as important. Because they are aware of the subject it is difficult to gain their attention when I attempt to go beyond the shallowness of their perception. The communication problem seems to be initially overcoming their awareness and reaching consciousness.

Understanding is a long step beyond knowing. Understanding is the creation of meaning. Understanding represents a rare instance when intellection and emotion join hands and places me in an empathetic position with a domain of knowledge. When I understand I have connected the dots and have created a unity that includes myself. I have created something that is meaningful, which means that I have placed that domain of knowledge within my domain that I call my self. I understand because I have a very intimate connection with a model of reality that I have created. It is that eureka moment that happens rarely but is a moment of ecstasy. As Carl Sagan says “understanding is a kind of ecstasy”.

When I read I almost always read non fiction. I have tried to read fiction and to learn from reading what is considered to be good literature. However, my effort to read good literature fails because I thing that learning by reading good literature is a very inefficient means for gaining knowledge and understanding.

I claim that I can acquire more knowledge in one hour by reading non fiction than I can while reading good literature for ten hours. That is, I claim that learning by reading non fiction is ten times more efficient than learning by reading fiction, i.e. good literature.

Do you agree that acquiring knowledge by reading non fiction is ten times as efficient as from reading fiction?

Innocent Sweety
10-15-2007, 12:11 PM
Firstly, I think that this article of yours was a very interesting read that provokes a lot of philosophical questions.

To answer your question, I think that it really depends on the person. Reading fiction can, as an example, increase your knowledge in vocabulary and improve your writing style. It can also be good exercise for your brain. I don't know whether non-fiction is more efficient or not though :)

Dio Seijuro
10-15-2007, 12:59 PM
I claim that I can acquire more knowledge in one hour by reading non fiction than I can while reading good literature for ten hours. That is, I claim that learning by reading non fiction is ten times more efficient than learning by reading fiction, i.e. good literature.

Do you agree that acquiring knowledge by reading non fiction is ten times as efficient as from reading fiction?[/b]
I generally agree. Furthermore, I think it's important to do so early on in life. One needs to build up a strong knowledge base in order to fully enjoy literature, not to mention to get by better in the world.

However, having recently read Harold Bloom's Western Cannon, I have come to regard good literature as a necessarily solitary, aesthetic, introspective experience. You just can't approach literature with the attitude that you are trying to "learn" something from it. It should be read purely for the joy to converse with yourself and the author, to recognize something sublimely beautiful and satisfying. It's not for utility.

coberst
10-15-2007, 03:57 PM
Sweety

I was discussing this idea with another reader and we thought that it would be interesting to take two high school seniors of equal ability and have one read Othello and the other go to Google and tell each that there would be an exam in one hour about the subject of tragedy and jealousy.

coberst
10-15-2007, 04:02 PM
I generally agree. Furthermore, I think it's important to do so early on in life. One needs to build up a strong knowledge base in order to fully enjoy literature, not to mention to get by better in the world.

However, having recently read Harold Bloom's Western Cannon, I have come to regard good literature as a necessarily solitary, aesthetic, introspective experience. You just can't approach literature with the attitude that you are trying to "learn" something from it. It should be read purely for the joy to converse with yourself and the author, to recognize something sublimely beautiful and satisfying. It's not for utility.

But what if my main interest is learning?

I consider my self to be a self-actualizing self-learner and I focus on disinterested knowledge. I think that if our citizens do not quickly develop a more intellectually sophisticated society our civilization cannot last another 200 years.

Innocent Sweety
10-15-2007, 04:28 PM
Sweety

I was discussing this idea with another reader and we thought that it would be interesting to take two high school seniors of equal ability and have one read Othello and the other go to Google and tell each that there would be an exam in one hour about the subject of tragedy and jealousy.

When you put it that way I think the reader of Othello would probably have stronger remarks regarding that subject. I'd be interested in knowing the results of such a test.

tucker58
10-15-2007, 04:54 PM
I have a strong desire to comprehend stuff

I claim that comprehending is a hierarchy and can usefully be thought of as a pyramid. At the base of the pyramid is awareness that is followed by consciousness, which is awareness plus attention. Knowing follows consciousness and understanding is at the pinnacle of the pyramid.

Two aspects of this comprehension idea deserve elaboration: consciousness and understanding.

When I was a youngster, probably seven or eight, my father took me with him when he drove to a local farm to pick corn for use in the café the family managed. We drove for a significant amount of time down local dirt roads to a farm with a field of growing corn.

We went into the fields with our bushel baskets and filled them with corn-on-the-cob. Dad showed me how to choose the corn to pick and how to snatch the cob from the stalk.

On the drive home I was amazed to observe the numerous fields of corn we passed on the way back to town. I can distinctly remember thinking to myself, why did I not see these fields of corn while we were driving to the farm earlier?

Today I have an answer to that question. I now say that on the way to the farm I was aware of corn-on-the-cob but on the way back home I was conscious of corn-on-the-cob. There was a very significant difference in my perceptions regarding corn-on-the-cob before and after the experience.

We are aware of many things but conscious of only a small number of things. We were aware of Iraq before the war but now we are conscious of Iraq. There is a very important distinction between awareness and consciousness and it is important for us to recognize this difference.

To be conscious of a matter signifies a focus of the intellect. Consciousness of a matter is the first step, which may lead to an understanding of the matter. Consciousness of a matter is a necessary condition for knowing and for understanding of that matter. Consciousness is a necessary but not sufficient condition for knowing and understanding to take place.

When discussing a topic about which I am knowledgeable most people will, because they recognize the words I am using, treat the matter as old stuff. They recognize the words therefore they consider the matter as something they already know and do not consider as important. Because they are aware of the subject it is difficult to gain their attention when I attempt to go beyond the shallowness of their perception. The communication problem seems to be initially overcoming their awareness and reaching consciousness.

Understanding is a long step beyond knowing. Understanding is the creation of meaning. Understanding represents a rare instance when intellection and emotion join hands and places me in an empathetic position with a domain of knowledge. When I understand I have connected the dots and have created a unity that includes myself. I have created something that is meaningful, which means that I have placed that domain of knowledge within my domain that I call my self. I understand because I have a very intimate connection with a model of reality that I have created. It is that eureka moment that happens rarely but is a moment of ecstasy. As Carl Sagan says “understanding is a kind of ecstasy”.

When I read I almost always read non fiction. I have tried to read fiction and to learn from reading what is considered to be good literature. However, my effort to read good literature fails because I thing that learning by reading good literature is a very inefficient means for gaining knowledge and understanding.

I claim that I can acquire more knowledge in one hour by reading non fiction than I can while reading good literature for ten hours. That is, I claim that learning by reading non fiction is ten times more efficient than learning by reading fiction, i.e. good literature.

Do you agree that acquiring knowledge by reading non fiction is ten times as efficient as from reading fiction?

Coberest my friend, I have a connection to God's Library. A tiny fraction of what is in that Library if printed into books would fill a universe with no room for anything else. Welcome to my world :)

It should be understood that some of it is classified. God being God and governments being governments.

"Cognitive Science" is exploring the potiential of the human brain. Are you, or are you not?

I have a strong desire to comprehend stuff.

That my friend is your quote. :) Your gift is that you do create activity and activity is the life of a message board, wether you personally are actually seeking knowledge or not. My job as a senior member and one who loves this message board is to create activity, wether anyone is seeking knowledge or not. Actually knowledge just gets stuck in here anyway :) there are some really bright people here. But activity is number one.

Ok?

tuck

tucker58
10-15-2007, 05:00 PM
When you put it that way I think the reader of Othello would probably have stronger remarks regarding that subject. I'd be interested in knowing the results of such a test.

Hi Innocent Sweety! I love your sig. picture! We of the west are abit overwhelming :) so anyway, I am glad that you are hanging in there and are a part of what is going on!

You are loved!

tuck

Innocent Sweety
10-15-2007, 05:16 PM
Hi Innocent Sweety! I love your sig. picture! We of the west are abit overwhelming :) so anyway, I am glad that you are hanging in there and are a part of what is going on!

You are loved!

tuck

Thank you tuck :flowers: I'm glad to be a part of this messageboard!

tucker58
10-15-2007, 08:33 PM
Thank you tuck :flowers: I'm glad to be a part of this messageboard!

I love you Sweety and am glad that you are apart our world! And I love Mohammed! May all of "His" loved ones be blessed "forever!"

tuck

tucker58
10-15-2007, 08:44 PM
Controlled conflick :)

Mommy! Coberst peed on the flowers! But he did get a "packrat", and boy did he have an attitude about it!

We put a fence around the flowers, but Tucker jumped the fence and peed on them anyway. But he did get a packrat! We live in the country and we don't have city rats or warf rats (Rattus rattus or Rattaus norvegicus). Tucker really hates packrats :) He got his first skunk last week! He had an attitude about that one too :) . My wife wasn't too happy about it :) And of course Tucker just had to go lay down in my stepson's bed :)

Guys, I do have a strange sense of humor. :) But the whole thing was way too funny!

tuck

coberst
10-25-2007, 07:47 AM
Good non-fiction books

The following is a quickie from Wickie regarding some of the best in non-fiction reading.

These books listed below are some selections from "Modern Library 100 best non-fiction" from Wickie.

An American Dilemma
The American Language
The Ants
The Art of Memory
The Autobiography of Malcolm X
The Civil War: A Narrative
The Double Helix
The Education of Henry Adams
The Elements of Style
Eminent Victorians
The General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money
The Golden Bough
Good-Bye to All That
The Guns of August
Homage to Catalonia
In Cold Blood (book)
Mark Twain's Autobiography
The Mismeasure of Man
Notes of a Native Son
The Open Society and Its Enemies
Principia Mathematica
The Right Stuff
The Rise of the West
A Room of One's Own
Silent Spring
The Strange Death of Liberal England
The Structure of Scientific Revolutions
A Study of History
A Theory of Justice
Up From Slavery
The Varieties of Religious Experience


Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Modern_Library_100_best_non-fiction"
Category: Non-fiction books

tucker58
10-25-2007, 02:24 PM
The ones that I have read from your list were pretty good.

tuck