http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/II26Ak01.html


Despite his demonization by the White House, US media and his Columbia University host, Iranian President Mahmud Ahmadinejad's skillful and manipulative Big Apple blitz has wowed the audience that really matters: the global Muslim "street".

For those who listened, unlike the many who simply branded the man as too evil to speak, Ahmadinejad coolly turned American disinformation on its head, to his own advantage.

The new "Hitler", at least for a while, has lodged in a prosaic midtown Manhattan hotel. Contrary to a plethora of demonizing myths, this Persian werewolf did not evade his abode to eat kids for breakfast in Central Park.

Instead, he turned on a carefully calibrated public relations charm offensive. Whatever his polemical views, for a now-seasoned head of state like Ahmadinejad to turn astonishing US disinformation on Iran, the Middle East and US foreign policy for his own advantage ended up as a string of slam-dunks.

Articulate, evasive, manipulative, the Iranian president - even lost in translation - was especially skillful in turning US corporate media's hysteria upside down consistently to paint those in the administration of President George W Bush as incorrigible warmongers.

Both at the National Press Club, via video-conference, and live at Columbia University, Ahmadinejad even had the luxury of joking about fabled Western "freedom of information" - as so many are still "trying to prevent people from talking".

He scored major points among the target audience that really matters: worldwide Muslim public opinion.

Contrasting with a plethora of corrupt Arab leaders, Ahmadinejad has been carefully positioning himself as a Muslim folk hero capable of standing up to Western arrogance and defending the rights of the weak (the Palestinians).

The way he deflected US ire on the enemy's own turf will only add to his standing.

At the United Nations this week, a remix of 2002 couldn't be more inevitable: it's the same soundtrack of tortuous diplomacy with the bongos and congas and special effects of war beefing up the background.

By going on preemptive public relations, Ahmadinejad was clever enough not to commit the same mistake of the previous, "invisible" Hitler, Saddam Hussein.

He was also clever in preempting ear-splitting rumors of a next war: "Talk about war is basically a propaganda tool."

One of his key points may not have made an impact in the US, but resonated widely around the world, and not only in the Muslim street:

"We oppose the way the US government tries to rule the world"; there are "more humane methods of establishing peace".

He assured that no Iranian weapons are flowing into Iraq, adding that "regional countries in the Middle East don't need outside interference".

Ahmadinejad succinctly unveiled the reasons for so much warmongering - in a way that even a kid would understand:

"I believe that some of the talk in this regard arises first of all from anger. Secondly, it serves the electoral purposes domestically in this country. Third, it serves as a cover for policy failures over Iraq."

_____________________By Pepe Escobar

He also revealed that Iran has no homosexuals. He obviously chose his words very carefully (well, whoever wrote his speeches did at least) but he exposed his inner dumbass.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/II26Ak01.html


It seems you have found a government, and a politician, with which you agree. Are you considering relocating? I'm sure they will assist with the costs, and you can always gain employment writing their political commentary. Who knows, you might even like the geography there.

On edit: The religious aspect might cause a small problem, but I'm sure thats easily overcome.

I cant say I agree with the regime in Tehran on most points,extreme Islam just isnt for me.
On the other hand,I think his visit will go down as a missed oppertunity,as the focus seems to be on his remarks about homosexuals,even tho this is an important point,the bigger picture is being ignored.

I was wondering how long it would take for the obligitory "he is right about us" thread appeared.

Does the guy wear a toup?

His "hair" looks pretty phoney to me.

I've made it a point throughout my life to never trust a guy who gets his hair at Broadway Rent-A-Rug.

That would be a 'flying carpet' down his neck of the woods.

hehe

as the focus seems to be on his remarks about homosexuals,even tho this is an important point,the bigger picture is being ignored.

welcome to America. Homosexuals are our sacred cows, any thing that even remotely paints them in a bad light is strictly forbidden.

Who knows, you might even like the geography there.Iran is quite beatiful in places.

welcome to America. Homosexuals are our sacred cows, any thing that even remotely paints them in a bad light is strictly forbidden.
It is actually no suprise to me that a guy who is basically the new Hitler shows up to our country and instead of getting heat for his kill America rallys and threats to anhilate the jews gets back seat billing to his remarks on the all important homosexuals.The comments re homosexuals illustrates how totally spooky the guy is.

It is hard to believe how PC this country is. The guy has been saying he is going to wipe isreal away, which basically means the death of millions of people by nuclear firestorm, but that is not spooky, what is spooky is that he said there are no homosexuals in Iran! That woke up America! How sad.

Im not convinced this guy is as radical as he portrays himself.
It has been disputed a lot about what exactly was said about Israel.
However,the men with no faces behind his leadership,they,to me are
the dangerous ones in Iran,the clerics.

This guy needs to be confronted on world affairs,before he flies home.

It is hard to believe how PC this country is. The guy has been saying he is going to wipe isreal away, which basically means the death of millions of people by nuclear firestorm, but that is not spooky, what is spooky is that he said there are no homosexuals in Iran! That woke up America! How sad.

No, it's just the most recent of his moronic statements. He didn't talk about wiping Israel away and he changed his stance on the holocaust to being upset that Palestinians were effectively punished for something they had nothing to do with.

Why would the media bring up something he said a long time ago as opposed to something he said in the last couple of days?

The Iranian Presidents about the Palestinians having to pay for the Holocaust
was an interesting angle to the argument.

One thing I noticed is that liberals love to give this Alphabet punk in Iran pass about his remarks about killing all the Jews and wiping isreal off the map, saying we don't know what he really meant. But that George Bush was just reckless and irresponsible and childish when he said "bring it on", he could start a war with talk like that!

Well G Bush has within his grasp,the capability to unleash a whirlwind,wheras the Iranians,well who knows.

I believe there was some suggestions that his Israel comments were lost in translation.
Or he was saying what the religious nuts wanted him to say.

The Iranian Presidents about the Palestinians having to pay for the Holocaust
was an interesting angle to the argument.

Agreed.

What I find hilarious is that all the right wing frothing at the mouth over Ahmadinejad only empowers him and gives him more press, thus running counter to their own stated wish to marginalize him.

We are not frothing at the mouth over him, we froth at the mouth over how you ignore him and blow off his anti-semetic, anti- american tirades as being "lost in translation", then seem to only find him dangerous when he says something anti-gay. Top it off with a nice helping of "he is right about us" and you have a lot of froth.

It seems you have found a government, and a politician, with which you agree. Are you considering relocating? I'm sure they will assist with the costs, and you can always gain employment writing their political commentary. Who knows, you might even like the geography there.

On edit: The religious aspect might cause a small problem, but I'm sure thats easily overcome.

If the Iranian government won't foot the bill for Freethinker to move to Iran I will be willing to chip in to purchase a one way ticket for him. I am sure I am not the only one who would be willing to help him follow a man he seems to love back to Iran. Of course he should realize that if he acts there as he acts there he will be hung before the year is out.

If Dharma wishes to accompany Freethinker I think I can scrape up a few more bucks for another tickey.

The world isnt all black and white ya know.I would imagine that most of the leaders in the western world will be glad to see the back of Bush and his crazy Foreign Policies.
Being anti Bush is not the same as being anti American,that old Republican trick is running a bit thin.

show me where a single person ever said being anti bush is anti american.

Columbia University was within its legal rights inviting him to speak but the University also showcased its unbelievable hypocricy.

Columbia refuses to allow military recruiters on campus because of the, "don't ask, don't tell', policy of the military. They deem it so disrespectful of homosexuals that recruiters are barred from the campus. They seem to have no problem inviting a man who doesn't believe in, "Don't ask, don't tell", but in hanging, stoning, killing with a sword or dropping off tall buildings as the proper response to homosexuality.

If, Don't ask, don't tell", is sufficient cause to bar the military from Columbia what does it take to bar Ahmadinejad from campus?

We are not frothing at the mouth over him, we froth at the mouth over how you ignore him and blow off his anti-semetic, anti- american tirades as being "lost in translation", then seem to only find him dangerous when he says something anti-gay. Top it off with a nice helping of "he is right about us" and you have a lot of froth.

Ignoring him is precisely what you should be doing if you actually wanted to marginalize him. All you succeeded in doing was turning his visit to America from a small page 5 column into a front page headline.

Ignoring him is precisely what you should be doing if you actually wanted to marginalize him. All you succeeded in doing was turning his visit to America from a small page 5 column into a front page headline.

so we should ignore Bin laden too then right?

show me where a single person ever said being anti bush is anti american.

"All the American people who don't support President Bush are traitors." - Ann Coulter, Hannity and Colmes, June 23rd 2004.

so we should ignore Bin laden too then right?

Thats precisely what you have been doing for 6 years.

why stop now?

:rolleyes:

show me where a single person ever said being anti bush is anti american.I and others here have said many things that we find distasteful about your present Administration,and I and others have been labelled 'anti American' for our stance.

I would like to see where you said something about George W Bush and been labled anti american. More then likely Bush was a part of a larger whole in a beat down of the US or its military.

Thats precisely what you have been doing for 6 years.

why stop now?

:rolleyes:

apparently to marginalize him.

Trav,I aint trawelling thru countless posts to prove my point.
Maybe someone will point out to you that it has been said,wheres an Administrator when u need one.

well sorry paul, but I do not believe someone has called you anti american for insuting George Bush alone. It seems the left wing likes to bash all of america, inlcuding george bush,then when someone calls them on it they resort to the line you pulled, claiming they were only criticizing Bush and got attacked for it!

Let me make myself clear,when I say George Bush,I mean his Administration,I think thats were we're going wrong here.

I understand that. The thing is, to many times people like freethinker attack the US as a whole, its military, its history, and the administartion, then when they get attacked back they claim it was soley for their views on the administration, and then that only re enforces their crazy ideas further. its like a vicious circle

OK.
I will state once again for everyone to read.
THE UNITED STATES IS THE SECOND GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.
Slan.

[FONT=Helv] The thing is, to many times people like freethinker attack the US as a whole,

Actually the problem is that when FT (or anyone) attacks specific actions, policies and people in American history, some bloviating jingoist comes along and claims he is "attacking America as a whole", which is not true, and attacks him back based upon that false assumption.

OK.
I will state once again for everyone to read.
THE UNITED STATES IS THE SECOND GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.
Slan.

agreed, right behind Lichtenstein.

Actually the problem is that when FT (or anyone) attacks specific actions, policies and people in American history, some bloviating jingoist comes along and claims he is "attacking America as a whole", which is not true, and attacks him back based upon that false assumption.


I disagree. It is because of the simplemindedness and gullibility of that collective known as *the American Public* that this country is headed for such a serious decline.

I understand them, but have no compassion for them.

I despise them. Because of them, we have for political leaders the warmongering, extreme rightwing Corporatists who are destroying this nation.

There has never been, in the 35+ years that I have been voting, a single person on the ballot who I have voted for who won, or who i would vote for and support.


Yep, those are pretty specific actions, policies and people. Pretty all inclusive, I'd say.

oh ya, I forgot to mention the constant blanket staements about how stupid americans are

Yep, those are pretty specific actions, policies and people. Pretty all inclusive, I'd say.

I would also. He is talking about specific groups of people in both instances.

Thanks for proving my point for me. :)

I would also. He is talking about specific groups of people in both instances.

Thanks for proving my point for me. :)


Yep, specific groups: The American Public and Everyone who has run for a political office, in the last 35+ years. At least he didn't include the entire world population. Nice stretch, dharma.

Allow me to be the first to say it, Paul. I think you are a bit of an anti-American. I think Freethinker is also anti-American, far more anti-American than you are.

It is a cop out and disingenuous to constantly denigrate our government as both you and he do, he to a greater extent than you and then say, "Hey, wait a minute. I'm not anti-American. I'm just anti the Amercan government."

It is sort of like telling someone you can't stand his mother, father and his sisters and brothers but that doesn't mean you don't like his family.

It is your right, as it is Freethinker's right to be anti-American but please, don't hide behind semantics and try to say it is only the American government you dislike and you love the American people. In my book if you don't like my President, my Vice-President, my Senate, my House of Representatives or my National Administration, and you find fault with everything we as a nation do you don't like me either since they are my representatives and I am tied by my citizenship to what my nation does.

You're saying you are not anti-American is like me saying I am not anti-French, just anti the French government and every thing the French stand for. Yep, I'm against that stuff and in my book that makes me anti-French.

I don't dislike you for your anti-Americanism, Paul. In fact I like you more than I like most people I have met on the internet. I just don't accept the fact that you are not anti-American.

I too am anti-french. Screw em, except for the older french people.

I'll be in Paris in about two weeks. I plan on pissing in their fountains. Fuckin' Grenouille.

be careful in paris, seriously.

Go to Normandy if you want to visit the really nice part of France.

Last time I was in Paris was 1963. The French were shits then and they are still shits. It was less than twenty years after we saved their collective asses in the war and I was actually spit on by a taxi driver because I was an American soldier. If it wasn't that my wife wanted to see Paris I wouldn't go near that country. Thank God I'll only be there a short while. We are going on the European vacation from hell. Friends of our recently retired and wanted to go away. We vacation together fairly often, Florida, Mexico, Bahamas, stuff like that. We let them plan the trip and they really messed up. It is the fastest paced trip I will have ever been on. We leave the evening of October 2nd. After the flight over we will be going to London, Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland and France. Then back home on the 14th. It is one of those, "If it's Tuesday this must be Belgium tours. If they weren't such good friends we would have bailed but we will enjoy ourselves simply because we like each other.

Allow me to be the first to say it, Paul. I think you are a bit of an anti-American. I think Freethinker is also anti-American, far more anti-American than you are.

It is a cop out and disingenuous to constantly denigrate our government as both you and he do, he to a greater extent than you and then say, "Hey, wait a minute. I'm not anti-American. I'm just anti the Amercan government."

It is sort of like telling someone you can't stand his mother, father and his sisters and brothers but that doesn't mean you don't like his family.

It is your right, as it is Freethinker's right to be anti-American but please, don't hide behind semantics and try to say it is only the American government you dislike and you love the American people. In my book if you don't like my President, my Vice-President, my Senate, my House of Representatives or my National Administration, and you find fault with everything we as a nation do you don't like me either since they are my representatives and I am tied by my citizenship to what my nation does.

You're saying you are not anti-American is like me saying I am not anti-French, just anti the French government and every thing the French stand for. Yep, I'm against that stuff and in my book that makes me anti-French.

I don't dislike you for your anti-Americanism, Paul. In fact I like you more than I like most people I have met on the internet. I just don't accept the fact that you are not anti-American.
Your way off the mark here Frogger,way off.
You are correct however when you say I dislike your present Administration global adventure,does this make me anti-American,I dont think so.

I do not and have not run down the US Congress or the US Senate.

As fr not 'liking everything we as a nation do'',well,I dont think you guys do do things as a nation,if you did,there wouldnt be any point in have a 'Politics Forum',and youd all live in Utopia.

Im quite sure FT will speak for himself,one of those good things about America,he has that privilege.

It seems you have found a government, and a politician, with which you agree.

I agree with him only insofar as his well founded criticisms of B*sh and his despicable, warmongering, hypocritical Administration, and with Ahmadinejad's position that America is a bully and a thug among the world's nations.

Are you considering relocating?

Not to Iran. Ruled far too much by religious idiocy.

I'm sure they will assist with the costs, and you can always gain employment writing their political commentary.

I find both predictions highly unlikely.

Who knows, you might even like the geography there.

I might. But I am not moving there. If the ConservaFascists get their way, they will be bombing Iran soon and I do not want to be in a country (yet another one) that winds up being attackd by the world's most successful terrorists, GWB*sh and his cohorts.

___________________________

The most cold-blooded, murderous people involved in the Iraq conflict are to be found in Washington D.C., atop the nation’s military-industrial and war media complexes – at the soulless pinnacles of Empire and Inequality, Inc. They stride in expensive suits through the safe, tranquil, air-conditioned corridors of power while brown-skinned children weep in anguish and U.S. soldiers lose their limbs in the sweltering bloodbath of “liberated” Iraq.

If the Iranian government won't foot the bill for Freethinker to move to Iran I will be willing to chip in to purchase a one way ticket for him. I am sure I am not the only one who would be willing to help him follow a man he seems to love back to Iran.

I do not "love" him at all, Frogger.

I don't particularly like him.

But i very much DO like that he speaks the truth about the far Right scum like Bush-and-Company, who as we speak comprise the greatest danger to this planet and its continued existence.

If Dharma wishes to accompany Freethinker I think I can scrape up a few more bucks for another tickey.

LOL. When all else fails, the useful idiots on the Right can always be counted on to fall back to their tried and true --"Love it 'er leave it!"-- whine.

Im quite sure FT will speak for himself,one of those good things about America,he has that privilege.
Yeah, but he's politically retarded. He thinks Pepe Escobar's assessment of Ahmadinejad's "speech" on our soil was a "slam-dunk" himself. I mean, I simply can't imagine a person further removed from reality than FT is (well, maybe Dharma, but I digress). From the article: "Articulate, evasive, manipulative, the Iranian president - even lost in translation - was especially skillful...." skillful at what, fucknut? It's very telling when the author of such drivel would choose to use the words "evasive and manipulative" in a positive context. People like this are dangerous; they're fucking subversives, and it's a good thing America doesn't follow my orders because I'd probably beat senior Escobar within an inch of his life, and I'd full-on fucking murder Ahmadinejad. But would America do that? No, we allow Pepe's disinformation to circulate (gathering the much-needed attention it deserves) and we allow lunatic mouthpiece presidents like Ahmadinejad to stay here AND speak at our universities. And he calls our press limited.

We get it, pal - the holocaust was a fabrication, no homosexuals live in Iran, Israel should be wiped off the map, and we've all been duped by the American media.

Go sell your semantics somewhere else, dickhead - 'cause we're all stocked up here.

LOL. When all else fails, the useful idiots on the Right can always be counted on to fall back to their tried and true --"Love it 'er leave it!"-- whine.

I didn't say, "Love it or leave it." I said if you chose to leave I would help defray the cost of your doing so.

I guess I would rather be a useful idiot on the right than a useless idiot on the left. I leave the useless idiot job to you.

LOL. When all else fails, the useful idiots on the Right can always be counted on to fall back to their tried and true --"Love it 'er leave it!"-- whine.
Well, IMO, it soundly trumps the "bash every facet of it and never leave" playing card. At least his philosophy (while sometimes overused) has some backbone and integrity.

Got a question here,
Do Americans vote for individuals or 'the party'?

That all depends on who you're talking to.

Individuals. The offices of President and Vice President are voted as a pair but other offices are voted on individually.

OK.Do Republican voters,vote Republican
and Democrats vote Democrat,all the time.

Not necessarily.

Right,now,hehe.
If the guy you DIDNT vote for is elected President,do you support him,no matter what,because he is President,not you personally,ya know what I mean.

Of course - he (or she, I suppose) is your president.

OK thanks,that explains a lot.

What exactly do you mean by "that explains a lot"???

Well you see,Im beginning to understand why some people get hot under the collar,when your President is verbally attacked now.

Well you see,I'm beginning to understand why some people get hot under the collar,when your President is verbally attacked now.

Bush could cure Cancer,AIDS,Herpes... turn straw into gold,and teach us all how to fly and they will still talk bad about him.

From the article: "Articulate, evasive, manipulative, the Iranian president - even lost in translation - was especially skillful...." skillful at what, fucknut?

If you had a bit more reading comprehension and were capable of understanding Escobar's very trenchant point, you would have grasped that he was talking about Ahmadinejad being skillful at getting across to the Muslim street the message that he wanted to communicate.


It's very telling when the author of such drivel would choose to use the words "evasive and manipulative" in a positive context.

The telling thing is that you do not comprehend the written word all that well.

Escobar --in speaking of Ahmadinejad's evasivness and manipulativeness was not praising him; he was simply pointing out the cleverness of the Iranian president in using the forum he was given to get his message through (to the Muslims throughout the rest of the world) despite being the target of revulsion and stern condemnation by the Corporate-controlled Media, the president of the college and virtually every ignorant Joe Sixpack type in the nation. (a group that not only includes you, but one that you may be the poster boy for)

People like this are dangerous; they're fucking subversives...

Yeah, they are dangerous alright............they are "dangerous" to the ConservaFascists who run this country at present. Having the truth pointed out about them always causes the powers-that-be to fret and whine..........especially when those far-Right leaders are acting in ways that are diametrically opposed to the good of the People of this country.

and it's a good thing America doesn't follow my orders because I'd probably beat senior Escobar within an inch of his life........

Yes, and we all know why.

He fails to toe the uber-Conservative line.

........and I'd full-on fucking murder Ahmadinejad. But would America do that? No, ......

Yes, I think they would (and will) if they thought they could get away with it. As I said before, the Neo-Con faction in America is already trying to fan the flames of a confrontation with Iran, and they may someday in the near future start dropping bombs (as with Iraq, with no justification whatsoever) on Ahmadinejad's nation.

...we allow Pepe's disinformation to circulate


You have provided nothing to demonstrate that what Escobar was writing was "disinformation".

All you have is your Archie Bunkerish --""Those journalists who do not condemn foreign leaders who speak their mind about America and its actions abroad are dangerous SUBVERSIVES!!""-- blather.

Will you stop being such an unmitigated ass, Freethinker. You see everyone who doesn't agree with your far left philosophy as some sort of far right demon. Have you ever considered that you are far, far left and those you consider far right are basically centrists?

You deny liking Ahmadinejad but you seem to agree with him on almost every point. I have a hard time fathoming how you can dislike someone with whom you are in almost total agreement.

Your hate the President schtick got old a long time ago. It is so stale that I find myself no longer reading your posts but simply skimming them to see if you have found any new evil foisted upon the world by the Bush administration.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"... I think that about sums it up.

Well you see,Im beginning to understand why some people get hot under the collar,when your President is verbally attacked now.

I am one of those who gets hot under the collar when my President is verbally attacked, especially when he is attacked by a non American.

I didn't vote for Mr. Clinton but once he was elected he was my President and I resented when non Americans said negative things about him.

We are a family and while we can say what we want about a fellow family member non family members do not have the same freedom to do so. I might get angry with Freethinker and Dharmabum but they are like the not too bright cousins every family has. Much of what they say is excused because they are family.

Europeans, Canadian, Mexicans, etc. are not family members and my reaction when they speak ill of my President is quite different.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend"... I think that about sums it up.Bad road to go down phart.Irans biggest enemy was,the late great Saddam.

Bad road to go down phart.Irans biggest enemy was,the late great Saddam.

I was refering to FT's opinion here... not to AchmedDinnerjacket.

:hula: I am one of those who gets hot under the collar when my President is verbally attacked, especially when he is attacked by a non American.

I didn't vote for Mr. Clinton but once he was elected he was my President and I resented when non Americans said negative things about him.

We are a family and while we can say what we want about a fellow family member non family members do not have the same freedom to do so. I might get angry with Freethinker and Dharmabum but they are like the not too bright cousins every family has. Much of what they say is excused because they are family.

Europeans, Canadian, Mexicans, etc. are not family members and my reaction when they speak ill of my President is quite different.OK.Now we know where we stand then.

Doesn't mean I don't like you or respect you, Paul. In fact, I do both. It just means that it annoys and even angers me when you bad mouth my President.

By the way,when the President of the United States or the President of antwhere else,starts infringing on MY way of life,then I feel the right to coment on them,family or not.

Doesn't mean I don't like you or respect you, Paul. In fact, I do both. It just means that it annoys and even angers me when you bad mouth my President.I feel the same Frogger,I think we'll agree to disagree,on this one.

As far as I know life in Ireland and/or the Northern Provinces hasn't been changed by Mr. Bush's actions.

Paul has a better grasp on american politics than most people born and rasied here... Just dont ask him about faggots...

Escobar --in speaking of Ahmadinejad's evasivness and manipulativeness was not praising him; he was simply pointing out the cleverness of the Iranian president in using the forum he was given to get his message through (to the Muslims throughout the rest of the world) despite being the target of revulsion and stern condemnation by the Corporate-controlled Media, the president of the college and virtually every ignorant Joe Sixpack type in the nation. (a group that not only includes you, but one that you may be the poster boy for)
There's nothing clever about that man, you moron. He handles the press with all the delicacy of a gang rape - always has, always will. That fact that you think his tactic (a tactic in which failed miserably, mind you) was "clever" in that it conveyed his so-called "message" to the Muslim street (which comprises roughly 4% of our population), then you're a bigger idiot than I thought. I don't care if you think his mindless soliloquies will unite every fucking towel head west of the Ganges - they're flat-out WRONG, and his point is completely moot because we're holding all the aces. In getting his precious "message" across (to the poorest nations of the world, no less), he made 90 + % of America and Europe (i.e., the civilized world) recoil in horror. Yeah. Real fucking clever, Ahmadinejad. Keep it up there, genius; "world peace" is right around the corner (not that you give a shit, nuke boy).

You two boneheads deserve one another.

Well,I blame the US invasion of Iraq for putting my fuel prices thru the roof,I used to spend $18 a day on diesel,now its up to about $40.
Mr Bush,thanks.

My kids home,was $640:00 per month,now thanks to sub prime loans in the US,European companys are panicking,interest rates are shooting thru the roof,this month,my kids home nearly $750.
Mr Bush,thanks.

The price of petroleum would have gone up regardless of what was done in Iraq. Ever heard of OPEC?

The mortgage default rate in the US is very high right now. I blame the market and unscrupulous lenders not the President.

The price of petroleum would have gone up regardless of what was done in Iraq. Ever heard of OPEC?Maybe,but the invasion spooked the oil industry and gave them Arab fuckers an excuse to screw the world.

The mortgage default rate in the US is very high right now. I blame the market and unscrupulous lenders not the President.
Gimme a break Frogger,who run America,the banks or the Government,Bush ditched Greenspan,and let interest rates stay low,knowing the mortgage bubble would eventually burst.

Paul has a better grasp on american politics than most people born and rasied here... Just dont ask him about faggots...
Haha,thanx LF,tho a little over the top even for me.

Well,I blame the US invasion of Iraq for putting my fuel prices thru the roof,I used to spend $18 a day on diesel,now its up to about $40.
Mr Bush,thanks.

My kids home,was $640:00 per month,now thanks to sub prime loans in the US,European companys are panicking,interest rates are shooting thru the roof,this month,my kids home nearly $750.
Mr Bush,thanks.


ummmmm can i take back the comment i made about paul having a clue????

Yeah go for it.

He should.

Paul,

I guess you don't know the dynamics of American economics as much as I thought you did. The President did not cause the mortgage bubble or the bursting of said bubble. He HAS been active in trying to lessen its effects though. While Alan Greenspan was very good in some areas he was a dolt in others and allowed his ideology to sometimes get in the way of what was best for the economic well being of the country. There were times when he should have lowered the interest rate and did not and times when he should have raised the interest rate and did not.

If your son is paying a higher mortgage rate look to your own country for the reason, not ours.

The United States economy drives interest rates on both sides of the Atlantic Frogger as you know.
PS. Its me paying the mortgage,not the son.

Maybe,but the invasion spooked the oil industry and gave them Arab fuckers an excuse to screw the world.

Actually it's the Chinese and Indians you want to blame on that one. Their demand for oil has nearly doubled.


Gimme a break Frogger,who run America,the banks or the Government,Bush ditched Greenspan,and let interest rates stay low,knowing the mortgage bubble would eventually burst.

Politicians don't set interest rates. The market does. If your banks are raising rates it's because risk in general is perceived as higher now than 6 months ago. Why? Lenders loaded up on debt of dubious quality, impaired their balance sheets and voila.

If your son is paying a higher mortgage rate look to your own country for the reason, not ours.
That, right there, is the problem as I see it - they blame us for everything under the sun (unless it benefits there asses, that is - in which case, you can guarantee it had nothing with the American economy at all). Big surprise your payments are going up, Paul – everyone relies on our market.

That, right there, is the problem as I see it - they blame us for everything under the sun (unless it benefits there asses, that is - in which case, you can guarantee it had nothing with the American economy at all). Big surprise your payments are going up, Paul – everyone relies on our market.Yeah well,please fix it.

Wald,if thats the case,go invade India and China,get the oil price back to near normal.

Actually it's the Chinese and Indians you want to blame on that one. Their demand for oil has nearly doubled.




Politicians don't set interest rates. The market does. If your banks are raising rates it's because risk in general is perceived as higher now than 6 months ago. Why? Lenders loaded up on debt of dubious quality, impaired their balance sheets and voila.
Excellent answers on both counts.

Will you stop being such an unmitigated ass, Freethinker. You see everyone who doesn't agree with your far left philosophy as some sort of far right demon.

Unlike you, I do not belive in demonic forces or entities.

I simply view those on the far Right as people who are laying the foundation for this nation's demise.

What kind of people, what kind of a country takes advantage of a national tragedy to take away citizen's rights, to foment a war based on lies, to spread fear throughout the land, to give more money to the rich while decimating social programs and at the same time engage in unrelentingly boastful and smirkingly self satisfied rhetoric? That's what I see in these people you speak of: lies, hatred, ignorance, bigotry, imperialism..... and now it seems some other people, including Mr Ahmadinejad, see it too.

Have you ever considered that you are far, far left and those you consider far right are basically centrists?

I have noted many times that I am a radical leftist. I am quite proud of that fact.

If those on the far Right are to be in any way viewed as "centrists" it is only because we are in a nation that is --sadly-- so extremely conservative politically.

You deny liking Ahmadinejad but you seem to agree with him on almost every point. I have a hard time fathoming how you can dislike someone with whom you are in almost total agreement.

As i noted before, my agreement with him extends only to his (very well founded) criticisms of the current administration and its global bullying and its imperialistic, murderous foreign policies.

Your hate the President schtick got old a long time ago.

By all means then; stop reading my posts and take up knitting or stamp collecting.

.....I find myself no longer reading your posts but simply skimming them to see if you have found any new evil foisted upon the world by the Bush administration.

Do as you please. But your knowledge of virtually every aspect that I touched upon concerning Ahmadinejad in the previous posts gives the lie to the claim that you are "only skimming".

Wald,if thats the case,go invade India and China,get the oil price back to near normal.
Not cool, Paul.

Yep, specific groups: The American Public and Everyone who has run for a political office, in the last 35+ years. At least he didn't include the entire world population.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the charge was that FT criticizes EVERYTHING about America, people, policies, ideals, locations, etc.
He is always very specific in what he is criticizing and why.

:thumbs:

That's what I see in these people you speak of: lies, hatred, ignorance, bigotry, imperialism..... and now it seems some other people, including Mr Ahmadinejad, see it too.
Well, you're keeping some great company there, Free. Maybe you have more in common than you think.

Not cool, Paul.

Why? The Chinese are Communists.
Doesn't that make them our enemy by default?

Well, you're keeping some great company there, Free.

IMO, virtually any people on earth would be 'better company' than the despicable Neo-Con faction (IOW, people like those in the PNAC) here in the U.S.

IMO, virtually any people on earth would be 'better company' than the despicable Neo-Con faction (IOW, people like those in the PNAC) here in the U.S.
Even the Taliban?

We are not frothing at the mouth over him, we froth at the mouth over how you ignore him and blow off his anti-semetic, anti- american tirades as being "lost in translation", then seem to only find him dangerous when he says something anti-gay. Top it off with a nice helping of "he is right about us" and you have a lot of froth.


I think Dharma means we should not froth over him on ANY issue. But the rightwing has been giving him too much attention.

FT, I agree with you on most things, but not on this issue of Iran and/or Iminneedofajob (is that how you spell it). I don't agree now and I will NEVER agree. I will take our US with all faults, bickering, etc. any day over Iran that has a "thug" for a President. This is not my view but all Iranians I run into in Dubai. (by the way I am moving back to Florida on Oct 14th!!!!). The day he became President, Iranians moved $ 300 Million to Dubai in 24 hours, because they wanted to get the fuck out!

He said that our politicians' actions arise out of political reasons (paraphrasing). But isn't it possible that his words also are for political tactics? His statements like "Israel should be wiped out" was probably to energize his base in Iran and other Muslims extremists in the middle east?

On another note (not directed to FT's post) regarding homosexuals, they are hypocrites. In Dubai, they say the same thing, however every other week or so some local gang is busted for raping boys.