I'm not real sure what all the issues are, but it seems the biggest is "job security".

CNN reported, this morning, that the UAW will pay married strikers a stipend of $200 per month. Sure hope them workers been saving some of the "slave wages" paid by GM, other wise they might get hungry.

Yeah, one of my g/fs who's going to Vegas with me has a hubby with 34 yrs in at GM. She emailed me this morning that he was on his way back home. The biggest conflict is retiree's health insurance. Guess they could just wait until Hillary gets into office and that would all be a moot point!

Bless their hearts, slave wages indeed. He makes more working in the parts warehouse than most people make being president of a bank.

:(
SMW

He makes more working in the parts warehouse than most people make being president of a bank.


ROFLMFAO!!!!

Reality is a total stranger to you, SMW.
Thanks for the laugh!

:thumbs:
DB

That particular plant produces the Cobalt that is being phased out in 2009.

Welcome to the real manufacturing world UAW.

That particular plant produces the Cobalt that is being phased out in 2009.

Welcome to the real manufacturing world UAW.


CNN reported this as a "Nation wide" strike. Are you saying its only one plant?

Welcome to the real manufacturing world UAW.

If you are a Chinese peasant.

DETROIT - Thousands of United Auto Workers walked off the job at GM plants around the country Monday in the first nationwide strike during auto contract negotiations since 1976.

UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said that job security was one of the major unresolved issues, but that the talks did not stumble over a groundbreaking provision establishing a UAW-managed trust that will administer GM's retiree health care obligations. Gettelfinger complained about "one-sided negotiations."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070924/ap_on_bi_ge/auto_talks_242

ROFLMFAO!!!!

Reality is a total stranger to you, SMW.
Thanks for the laugh!

:thumbs:
DB

Are you calling me a liar, Dharma? How do you know how much he makes??

I can tell you it's well over $100K a year, with OT. Guess that's just Chinese peasant money to you, right?

:slap:

Moderate,

Lordstown OH is the plant effected by the Cobalt I think. Other negociations related to retirement health benefits will result on other plants going on strike (and the lack of protections from layoffs is part of the "deal" also).

If you are a Chinese peasant.
Oh, and you are a manufacturing expert now too?

I've only been in manufacturing management for 25 years (and was in the automotive industry for 9 of those years). I bow to your immense knowledge of the manufacturing industry and what it entails.

:lolhit:

Oh, and you are a manufacturing expert now too?

I've only been in manufacturing management for 25 years (and was in the automotive industry for 9 of those years). I bow to your immense knowledge of the manufacturing industry and what it entails.

:lolhit:
Dharma is an expert on every subject, OP. Don't believe it? Just ask him.

;)
SMW

The UAW takes very good care of itself & its' members. I knew one gent, working mids in a stamping plant doing maintenance (and staying drunk most of the time) bringing home over $100K annually. There were others working there, well into their 70's, riding their seniority & could not be eased into retirment. Why bother to retire when all they did was show up daily and collect a fine paycheck? Sure beat staying at home with a wife nagging them all the time.

The UAW takes very good care of itself & its' members. I knew one gent, working mids in a stamping plant doing maintenance (and staying drunk most of the time) bringing home over $100K annually. There were others working there, well into their 70's, riding their seniority & could not be eased into retirment. Why bother to retire when all they did was show up daily and collect a fine paycheck? Sure beat staying at home with a wife nagging them all the time.

So, Es... you know my friend, too, eh??

Cushy jobs, no doubt. But even the UAW had to make concessions years ago and agree that new employees (union members) would be brought it at substantially lower salaries than their counterparts. So did the airline industry. So the old dogs we know will soon be an extinct breed of $100K warehouse workers.

And yet they still strike.

;)
SMW

I'm going to put in my .02. My dad is retired from GM (salary not hourly). Both my brother and brother-in-law work for GM. They were sent home at 11:00 when UAW called for a strike. The issue is not retired workers, that is off the table right now. The mandatory issues that have to be addressed, are wages and benefits for workers. They are striking because of these reasons, not anything to do with retired workers, though this is something that is being addressed, hopefully.
My brother brings home about $80,000.00 a year including over time, not $100,000.00. He has been there for almost 30 years so he is at the top of the pay scale He works his butt off, he has problems with his knees, back and feet. A lot of the workers have health issues from their job at the auto plants.

The abuses you talk about are mainly from years ago, when they called GM, Generous Motors. Nowadays, they don't get away with half what they used to. I know people like to say the auto workers have cushy jobs, but I know a lot of people who work at the auto plants and I wouldn't want their jobs for anything.

Fuck the UAW. You wanna know why we can't compete with Japan? The UAW and Uncle Sam. GM comes close to bankruptcy last year, and remarkably enough, manages to turns things around, and lo and behold, the UAW is already bitching for more money (my dad called it with remarkable accuracy, oddly enough) when he read of GM's moderate financial success four months ago in the Tribune - he said, "now watch, son - they'll go on strike....they do it every time".....and like clockwork, they went into full-on sodomy mode last week....

GM should just up and move to Mexico. Let 'em all starve. The UAW handles it's business with all the delicacy of a gang rape. It almost as if the Dharmabums out there are intentionally trying to sink this country. (OTOH, they're too stupid to know any better)

Are you calling me a liar, Dharma?

Yes. I am.

:spank:

I bow to your immense knowledge of the manufacturing industry and what it entails.


As you should...

:spank:

As you should...

:spank:
To quote Phil Hartman's parody of Frank Sinatra on SNL.....

"I got chunks of guys like you in my stool"

:bike:

Fuck the UAW. You wanna know why we can't compete with Japan? The UAW and Uncle Sam. GM comes close to bankruptcy last year, and remarkably enough, manages to turns things around, and lo and behold, the UAW is already bitching for more money (my dad called it (with remarkable accuracy, oddly enough) when he read of GM's moderate financial success four months ago in the Tribune - he said, "now watch, son - they'll go on strike....they do it every time".....and like clockwork, they went into full-on sodomy mode last week....).

GM should just up and move to Mexico. Let 'em all starve. The UAW handles it's business with all the delicacy of a gang rape. It almost as if the Dharmabums out there are intentionally trying to sink this country. (OTOH, they're too stupid to know any better)

Your dad sounds like a really smart guy, too bad he didn't teach you about compassion while he was teaching you about the bottom line.:thumbs:

My wife drives the last American vehicle I plan on owning - an '01 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - a top of the line sedan with all the bells & whistles. Expensive to operate & maintain. Somewhat unreliable - its been towed more often than any other vehicle I've ever owned (including the "wonder cars" from my youth - wonder if it'll start, wonder if it'll stop ...), has left my wife sitting on the side of the road more than once. The local dealership, where it was purchased, is a complete joke. No more. Other than when stationed overseas, I've owned & driven American cars, but no more.(I did own 2 "furrin" cars - a VW microbus & a Mazda rotary wagon) We've not settled on a new ride just yet, but Honda, Toyota, Nissan & Mazda are on the list.

My wife drives the last American vehicle I plan on owning - an '01 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - a top of the line sedan with all the bells & whistles. Expensive to operate & maintain. Somewhat unreliable - its been towed more often than any other vehicle I've ever owned (including the "wonder cars" from my youth - wonder if it'll start, wonder if it'll stop ...), has left my wife sitting on the side of the road more than once. The local dealership, where it was purchased, is a complete joke. No more. Other than when stationed overseas, I've owned & driven American cars, but no more.(I did own 2 "furrin" cars - a VW microbus & a Mazda rotary wagon) We've not settled on a new ride just yet, but Honda, Toyota, Nissan & Mazda are on the list.
have you been following your maintenance schedule by the book? i did on my '94 Shadow, it never saw a wrecker from the business end until my cousin wreck it at 250k miles (139k on the orginal clutch), but my '98 Avenger's (built as a joint venture with Mitsu) suspension just could not stand up to the roads in MI, and is the reason it finally ended up in a ditch.

somethings work, some don't. mostly it's the nut behind the steering wheel.

I'm going to put in my .02. My dad is retired from GM (salary not hourly). Both my brother and brother-in-law work for GM. They were sent home at 11:00 when UAW called for a strike. The issue is not retired workers, that is off the table right now. The mandatory issues that have to be addressed, are wages and benefits for workers. They are striking because of these reasons, not anything to do with retired workers, though this is something that is being addressed, hopefully.
My brother brings home about $80,000.00 a year including over time, not $100,000.00. He has been there for almost 30 years so he is at the top of the pay scale He works his butt off, he has problems with his knees, back and feet. A lot of the workers have health issues from their job at the auto plants.

The abuses you talk about are mainly from years ago, when they called GM, Generous Motors. Nowadays, they don't get away with half what they used to. I know people like to say the auto workers have cushy jobs, but I know a lot of people who work at the auto plants and I wouldn't want their jobs for anything.

Glad you put in your $.02, ninigoat. Health insurance for retirees is a BIG issue in this area. That and job security are the only two issues strikers are talking about on the news tonight. I can relate to the health problems being experienced by the plant workers. There are many long-time employees in lots of industries who experience the same ailment after spending 30 years on their feet. Just not too many who make $80K a year.

Unfortunately, the abusers are still out there. My friend works at one of GM's largest parts distribution centers. A bldg the size of 4 football fields. He admits to having built himself an 'apartment' deep in the interior of the bldg, complete with sofa, TV, table, chairs, pillows and blankets. The walls are cardboard and there's only one way in and one way out. Although many of his coworkers know of his 'place' and often use it, it's a big game to keep the supvs from finding out about it, so it moves from time to time.

Did I mention he's a union steward?

He went to work for GM parts div at the age of 20. He's now 54 and married to another friend of mine. She asked me to help her with their taxes last year... his total earnings were $101,075. He sometimes 'works' double shifts.

But like you said... their days are numbered. Twenty years from now, there will be a whole new workforce at GM. Ones hired in at $10 an hour in 2007, instead of $18 an hour in 1973.

I'm sure things are different at the manufacturing plants. Closer supervision and mandated production standards. But in the warehouses, it's a whole different story.

He can't imagine any other way of life than working for the union. Easy to see why, huh?

:)
SMW

I'm still waiting for someone to post evidence here --per SMW's assertion-- that most of the bank presidents in the U.S. make less than 100 thousand per year.

I'm still waiting for someone to post evidence here --per SMW's assertion-- that most of the bank presidents in the U.S. make less than 100 thousand per year.
branch managers i could understand-there's so damn many of them.

The UAW as American Icon of Pride and Prodigiousness is
long over.There is literally { My Fav word of late } No way to
solve Legacy costs.Even if Congress were to pass some kind of
Emergency bill to make solvent,past obligations to older workers in
the UAW that still wouldn't unravel the differential between
the sales rates of Japanese/European Imports vs. Americav made
vehicles.
There is no Answer.
Apparently adjusting the cost of American vehicles,hasn't helped.
Unless we go back to makin disposible cars like the Pinto,Gremlin and
Maverick.
Ameica now has to face even more demanding competition from
Korean Auto-makers whose price cannot ever be met or duplicated.
Kia can even offer Buy a car,get a car.
This internal conundrum from Auto-makers,shoulda been understood
and dynamically adjusted for,years ago.
It's Way too late now.
With the Japanese makin far better auto's for the buck,and
also cheaper and better Steel,and far more reasonable Labor costs,the
American Automakers are Doomed.
I don't see a way out.
About THE only thing American Auto makers can do is build far better
cars that cost,and drastically reduce their labor force,since the number
of units will be greatly reduced,or try and make a stab again at
disposable,cheap cars.

have you been following your maintenance schedule by the book? i did on my '94 Shadow, it never saw a wrecker from the business end until my cousin wreck it at 250k miles (139k on the orginal clutch), but my '98 Avenger's (built as a joint venture with Mitsu) suspension just could not stand up to the roads in MI, and is the reason it finally ended up in a ditch.

somethings work, some don't. mostly it's the nut behind the steering wheel.

Oh yeah, by the book. Oil changes before called for. Tire rotation & balance every other oil change. All filters annually. Thus far? 3 catalytic converters. Ever had to replace a catalytic converter? (The one on my '89 F-150 is the original & it passed the emissions test again this year) 2 sets of plugs & wires. New coils, twice (that's 6). Plugs are supposed to last to 100K ... right? Hahaha! Car hasn't got 90K yet. Pontiac P.O.S. Dealer wanted over $800 to furnish & install plugs, wires & coils - said the cat converter wasn't covered by warranty when it failed the first time. Rear electric windows failed to operate - there's a factory bulliten out covering the parts - dealer only, of course, $400 to repair each window lift. No more Detroit iron for me.

Ever had to replace a catalytic converter?
no, i haven't-even when i drove a '76 Vega, and put leaded gas in it.
Pontiac P.O.S. Dealer
that sounds like most of your problems right there. do yourself a favor, don't buy your next car from one of this guy's import lots, and if you do, don't take it there for anything but warrenty work you're certain is covered.

I'm still waiting for someone to post evidence here --per SMW's assertion-- that most of the bank presidents in the U.S. make less than 100 thousand per year.

Me too. I would like to see that.


.

Originally Posted by Freethinker
I'm still waiting for someone to post evidence here --per SMW's assertion-- that most of the bank presidents in the U.S. make less than 100 thousand per year

Me too. I would like to see that.

Oh, STFU. You're both so small-minded, you feel it necessary to nitpick every word of people's posts rather than focus on the larger issue. Instead of diagraming sentences, why don't you stick to topics you understand and can relate to... like 'who do we hate the most today?' Then you can foam at the mouth with each other and the rest of us won't have to witness it.

:upyours:
SMW

P.S. For the record, I probably should've said bank VPs, but I'm sure you both know plenty of assembly line/warehouse workers who make more than they do too, eh?

ROFL! SMW seems to hate being called on her ridiculous claims. That can only mean one thing! Do it every chance you get!

Aren't you supposed to be on a desert island someplace?

Or is that YOUR ridiculous claim?

I probably should've said bank VPs, but I'm sure you both know plenty of assembly line/warehouse workers who make more than they do too, eh?

No.

Where I live, the very highest paid blue collar workers are those employed at an aluminum reduction plant. I worked there for a while. It is extremely hazardous to one's health, very physically demanding and extremely hot work.

They make around 23,000 to 38,000 per year.

The vast --and i DO mean vast-- majority of jobs here pay less than $17,000 per year.

Every day, we all get to watch SMW as she foams at the mouth over her hatred of the ever-nebulous "liberal" bogeyman.

:rolleyes:

No.

Where I live, the very highest paid blue collar workers are those employed at an aluminum reduction plant. I worked there for a while. It is extremely hazardous to one's health, very physically demanding and extremely hot work.

They make around 23,000 to 38,000 per year.

The vast --and i DO mean vast-- majority of jobs here pay less than $17,000 per year.
Yeah, but you live in one of the most economically depressed states in the union - which is, needless to say, a fairly poor benchmark to measure by. GM is a different beast entirely (it's completely ball-stomped by our government and the UAW, but I digress). That aside, what kind of "work" are the employees of your aluminum reduction plant responsible for? Lemme guess - is it to lift shit, push a button, move shit, and repeat the process? If so, then what do you think they're worth? 40K, 50K, 100K a year? Get real. If you don't want their jobs going to India, then perhaps you should be pushing for a wage reduction.

Those fuckers are lucky the plant is there to begin with.

From Salary.com (http://salary.monster.com):

A private retail banking Vice President, in my area, makes:

25th Percentile = $136,555
Median = $176,321
75th Percentile = $226,350

A Senior Tool and Die Maker, in my area, earns:

25th Percentile = $54,099
Median = $61,223
75th Percentile = $67,660


Yes, SMW, I am not only calling you a liar, I am calling you a bad liar.

:thumbs:
DB

From Salary.com (http://salary.monster.com):

A private retail banking Vice President, in my area, makes:

25th Percentile = $136,555
Median = $176,321
75th Percentile = $226,350

A Senior Tool and Die Maker, in my area, earns:

25th Percentile = $54,099
Median = $61,223
75th Percentile = $67,660


Yes, SMW, I am not only calling you a liar, I am calling you a bad liar.

:thumbs:
DB

A Senior Tool and Die Maker at GENERAL MOTORS, Dharma? That is the topic, you know?

Every day, we all get to watch SMW as she foams at the mouth over her hatred of the ever-nebulous "liberal" bogeyman.

:rolleyes:

Let's see, I used the term 'foam at the mouth' so Dharma uses the term 'foam at the mouth.'

Gee, D, what's happening to you? At one time, you were at least original.

:lolhit:

A Senior Tool and Die Maker at GENERAL MOTORS, Dharma? That is the topic, you know?

That is the average going market rate, and this market includes GM.
What evidence do you have that GM pays more than twice the market average?

Do you have ANYTHING at all to backup your hysterical, raving, labor-hating lies?

:stfu

Gee, D, what's happening to you? At one time, you were at least original.
When was that? I've always known him as the moron you see posting here every day.

That is the average going market rate, and this market includes GM.
What evidence do you have that GM pays more than twice the market average?

Do you have ANYTHING at all to backup your hysterical, raving, labor-hating lies?

:stfu

I have first hand knowledge, not internet searches, to back up my claims. In addition to ninigoat's post in which she stated her brother makes $80K on the assembly line.

Do you live in a cave? Do you not KNOW that General Motors UAW workers are among the highest paid in ANY industry for the type of work they perform?

You're out of touch on this issue, Dharma. I suggest you go spew some anti-American rhetoric someplace else. That's really the only thing you're very good at.

Oh, besides name-calling, I mean. You're learning that well at FT's side.

:slap:
SMW

When was that? I've always known him as the moron you see posting here every day.

I was trying to be nice, Prae. Real hard for me to believe anyone would argue that GM workers make 'average' salaries.

We should all be paid so well.

We should all be paid so well.
Did you know that for every ONE employee they have working currently, they're paying roughly 4 NOT TO WORK. Under funded pensions, and a position of preeminence in the '70's and '80's dictated (in the UAW's mind, at least) that GM pay continual increases despite poor business and stiffer competition (which was given tax breaks and allowed to hire non-union workers by our own government). Talk about sinking a company. The UAW is a boat anchor of unprecedented size.

Did you know that for every ONE employee they have working currently, they're paying roughly 4 NOT TO WORK. Under funded pensions, and a position of preeminence in the '70's and '80's dictated (in the UAW's mind, at least) that GM pay continual increases despite poor business and stiffer competition (which was given tax breaks and allowed to hire non-union workers by our own government). Talk about sinking a company. The UAW is a boat anchor of unprecedented size.
Yep. My ex old man worked there, too. In fact, he's the one who got my friend on. He 'hurt his knee' in the early 80's and went out on disability. He later filed for and was awarded a full pension, even though he actually only 'worked' there for less than 10 years. He kicked the bucket two years ago, but his little widow STILL draws her share of his pension.

Once you get on GM's payroll, you rarely ever get off.

I have first hand knowledge, not internet searches, to back up my claims.

In other words, no. You have nothing whatsoever to back up your hysterical, desperately labor-hating ravings.
Just so thats clear.


Do you live in a cave? Do you not KNOW that General Motors UAW workers are among the highest paid in ANY industry for the type of work they perform?

No, SMW. We have been over this before, nobody else can hear the voices in your head. Only you.

I wager I know far more GM employees than you do. Even the most senior line workers do not make anywhere near the wages of a Bank executive, which start in six figures.

:thumbs:
DB

Did you know that for every ONE employee they have working currently, they're paying roughly 4 NOT TO WORK.

Really? Well did you know that in the 50s an alien crashed in Roswell, NM and the US government has been covering it up ever since?

:rolleyes:

Where I live, the very highest paid blue collar workers are those employed at an aluminum reduction plant. I worked there for a while. It is extremely hazardous to one's health, very physically demanding and extremely hot work.

They make around 23,000 to 38,000 per year.

The vast --and i DO mean vast-- majority of jobs here pay less than $17,000 per year.

Yeah, but you live in one of the most economically depressed states in the union - which is, needless to say, a fairly poor benchmark to measure by.

True.

GM is a different beast entirely

True.

That aside, what kind of "work" are the employees of your aluminum reduction plant responsible for? Lemme guess - is it to lift shit, push a button, move shit, and repeat the process?

Exactly.

If so, then what do you think they're worth?

Uhhhh......around 23,000 to 38,000 per year, I guess.

......40K, 50K, 100K a year? Get real.

I made no implication or claim whatsover as to what I *think* they are worth, nor did I make any implication or claim that I believe they are worth 50k or 100k per year.

Get real.

Excuse me, but you're the one here pushing the strawman that I am lobbying for them to make twice what they make now.


Those fuckers are lucky the plant is there to begin with.

Never said they weren't. I would agree that anyone in this area making over 25k per year is very fortunate.

Still though, I do not agree with corporations being allowed to yank their operations out of this country and move them overseas while suffering NO consequences of such an action. When they do that, they place the American worker in direct competition with people who can live on a fraction of the wages that it requires here to have a decent life.

For THAT, these heartless corporations need to be made to pay the consequences; the best way to accomplish that (although it likely will not happen) would be for all the millions of displaced workers to band together and never again buy another piece of shit manufactured by one of these move-it-out-of-the-US-to-save-a-buck corporations.

I made no implication or claim whatsover as to what I *think* they are worth, nor did I make any implication or claim that I believe they are worth 50k or 100k per year.
I'm sorry - I thought you were. My bad.
Still though, I do not agree with corporations being allowed to yank their operations out of this country and move them overseas while suffering NO consequences of such an action. When they do that, they place the American worker in direct competition with people who can live on a fraction of the wages that it requires here to have a decent life.
Tough titties. It is what it is. There's a bigger picture than just the "American worker" here.
For THAT, these heartless corporations need to be made to pay the consequences....
Trust me, they are - and having a "heart" has nothing to do with it. Actually, they're already paying quite a heavy penalty for setting up shop in a country that FORCES them to pay their employees ridiculous wages, that FORCES them to pay ever-increasing property and sales tax, that REGULATES the shit outta their business, and FORCES them to provide lofty benefits for the lazy, ungrateful, sue-happy cocks they call "help".
the best way to accomplish that (although it likely will not happen) would be for all the millions of displaced workers to band together and never again buy another piece of shit manufactured by one of these move-it-out-of-the-US-to-save-a-buck corporations.
Take it up with the marketplace, Joe Sixpack. I mean, seriously, knock yourself out - pay ten times what I do for the same trinket (or anything else for that matter). That'll make your point, for sure.

Holy shit... this is like a Whos who of AFN biggest and brightest stars... A brutal drag out battle royal of the tops dogs.... Heck Even Napster made an apperance.... I would jump in but after all the FLUFF i don't even remember what the thread was originally about... It is true that union workers make much more than non union..... alot of the times the whole point of unions (to protect the working man) is lost in greed. How else can you justify a teachers union going on strike when they make base pay 35-45k for working 180 days a year, have every two bit holiday in the book off.... and are usually home by 4pm daily,and have 100% free health/vision/dental,with zero co-pay and a small deductible. (this was an example of a strike from a local high school i remember when i was growing up. I do realize that all teachers might not have it this good,and all... it is an EXAMPLE... I do realize teachers in inner-cites put up with alot and blah blah blah...)

Well, looks like the $27/hr GM janitors are going back to work today. I know that makes some people real happy.

;)
SMW

[QUOTE=smartmouthwoman]Well, looks like the $27/hr GM janitors are going back to work today. I know that makes some people real happy.

Um,YOU are aware that at one time GM was THE Biggest Corp.
in America.
And the Phrase :
- As GM Goes,so goes the Country -.
How quickly some folk furgit.

[QUOTE=smartmouthwoman]Well, looks like the $27/hr GM janitors are going back to work today. I know that makes some people real happy.

Um,YOU are aware that at one time GM was THE Biggest Corp.
in America.
And the Phrase :
- As GM Goes,so goes the Country -.
How quickly some folk furgit.


Then along came a little Japanese auto company, and oh how the mighty fell.

Had we rebuilt our own factories from the ground up as we helped Germany & Japan do at the end of WWII and the auto execs paid as much attention to making quality products, perhaps they'd not be in the shape they are today.

Had we rebuilt our own factories from the ground up as we helped Germany & Japan do at the end of WWII and the auto execs paid as much attention to making quality products, perhaps they'd not be in the shape they are today.

ITA, Es.

Well, looks like the $27/hr GM janitors are going back to work today. I know that makes some people real happy.

;)
SMW
so are the $10 an hour temps and the $7 an hour parts suppliers.

Really? Well did you know that in the 50s an alien crashed in Roswell, NM and the US government has been covering it up ever since?

:rolleyes:
with as many factory workers that you claim to know, your ignorance of the Job Bank amazes me :@@:

Had we rebuilt our own factories from the ground up as we helped Germany & Japan do at the end of WWII and the auto execs paid as much attention to making quality products, perhaps they'd not be in the shape they are today.
Maybe.

Then again, the Japanese (inherently speaking) take pride in their work, work harder (and not to mention, longer) than we do, and if not to add insult to injury here, they'll do it all for less money than we will. There's no competing with that in this country. Japanese automakers can hire outside of the UAW on US soil, and they're given a multitude of tax breaks that GM and Ford aren't eligible for. It's almost as if the UAW and Uncle Sam got together one night and asked themselves - "how can we bankrupt these s.o.b.'s"....

Germany, OTOH, well in order to compete with them, we'd have to learn how to build a car first. They sell a thoroughly superior product, period. Our cars are getting better, and they're more "inspired" (for lack of a better word here) than most lifeless Japanese vehicles, but with that said, they're nowhere near as rewarding to drive as most German cars are. But hey - if the UAW vanished by way of some freaking miracle, then ultimately, I'd have faith in our possibilities.

with as many factory workers that you claim to know, your ignorance of the Job Bank amazes me

The fact that I do know so many auto workers is precisely why I do not buy into the idiotic right wing myths and rumors that SMW believes in so strongly despite all the evidence to the contrary right under her nose.

:thumbs:
DB

Had we rebuilt our own factories from the ground up as we helped Germany & Japan do at the end of WWII and the auto execs paid as much attention to making quality products, perhaps they'd not be in the shape they are today.

Maybe.But it has more to do with Costs and Demand.
Japanese cars are less expessive and cost far less to manufacture.
Are Labor is almost double theirs.
Thanks in huge measure to Union shops.
I believe they adopted a 2-tier wage strategy this time around.
It was used before,only temporarily.
Plus resale values continue to decline.
SUV's are costly to Make and use.
Maybe if The federal Gov't alllowed the introduction of very
cheaper {disposable } cars like the Pinto & Maverivck,then The
Big Auto makers woodn't be reduced to 2nd { GM } and 3rd {Ford}
Place by New King on the block .... TOYOTA.

Well, looks like the $27/hr GM janitors are going back to work today. I know that makes some people real happy.


It doesn't make you happy to see Americans going back to work?

Why do you hate your fellow Americans so much?

oh yes, because you are a rabid right winger who thinks all labor should be poor.

:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=dharmabum]It doesn't make you happy to see Americans going back to work?

Why do you hate your fellow Americans so much?

oh yes, because you are a rabid right winger who thinks all labor should be poor.


Even dough Leftists are spoiled silly and used to havin it both
ways,YOU can't...herein.
You can't insist like FT that Right-wingers {Republicans } are
sheer monopolistic Capitalists,and ALSO insist they want to see
America fall from within.
Either Republicans want strong Corporations and Capitalism or
they want other.
Which is it.?
It can't be Boat {both}.

It doesn't make you happy to see Americans going back to work?

Why do you hate your fellow Americans so much?

oh yes, because you are a rabid right winger who thinks all labor should be poor.

:rolleyes:
maybe you should get out into the world and meet some ppl instead of sitting inside and lying about it?

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/17/A01-351179.htm

:upyours:

maybe you should get out into the world and meet some ppl instead of sitting inside and lying about it?


Is that your answer? Is that why you hate your fellow Americans so much?

:upyours:

Maybe.

Then again, the Japanese (inherently speaking) take pride in their work, work harder (and not to mention, longer) than we do, and if not to add insult to injury here, they'll do it all for less money than we will. There's no competing with that in this country. Japanese automakers can hire outside of the UAW on US soil, and they're given a multitude of tax breaks that GM and Ford aren't eligible for. It's almost as if the UAW and Uncle Sam got together one night and ask themselves - "how can we bankrupt these s.o.b.'s"....

Germany, OTOH, well in order to compete with them, we'd have to learn how to build a car first. They sell a thoroughly superior product, period. Our cars are getting better, and they're more "inspired" (for lack of a better word here) than most lifeless Japanese vehicles, but with that said, they're nowhere near as rewarding to drive as most German cars are. But hey - if the UAW vanished by way of some freaking miracle, then ultimately, I'd have faith in our possibilities.
***************************8
Ever heard of DaimlerChrysler ?
I Rest Me Case

Is that your answer? Is that why you hate your fellow Americans so much?

:upyours:
it's not my fault you got caught lying again, it's your's

now if you don't mind--->:stfu the grownups are talking.

***************************8
Ever heard of Damien Chrysler ?
I Rest Me Case
DCX is a whole new mess now that they don't have Chrylser to suck dry to balance the books at Mecedes, they're in real trouble being as top heavy as they are.

trust me, if they built cars like they do heavy trucks, there would be no auto industry, ppl would walk to work.

***************************8
Ever heard of DaimlerChrysler ?
I Rest Me Case
Way to rest it.

it's not my fault you got caught lying again

No, I did not.
WTF are you babbling about?

:upyours:

No, I did not.
WTF are you babbling about?

:upyours:
you said the Job Bank was a myth according to the countless factory workers you claim to know, you were proved a liar...just like your imaginary English friend that can't spell.

it's not my fault you're so poor that you can't pay attention:rolleyes:

DCX is a whole new mess now that they don't have Chrylser to suck dry to balance the books at Mecedes, they're in real trouble being as top heavy as they are.

trust me, if they built cars like they do heavy trucks, there would be no auto industry, ppl would walk to work.

The answer isn't simply to build cars like the Germans.
Opel wasn't that hot.
Nor were many a VW Beetle.The Beetle was a base wonder of
inexpensiveness and function.
Dint even have heaters in the 60's.

The answer isn't simply to build cars like the Germans.
Opel wasn't that hot.
Nor were many a VW Beetle.The Beetle was a base wonder of
inexpensiveness and function.
Dint even have heaters in the 60's.
it had a heater, it just didn't work that great.

you said the Job Bank was a myth

No, I did not. I was talking about SMW's idiotic myth of the the factory workers making as much as bank executives. I guess I didn't realize you were trying to change the subject to something completely unrelated.

:rolleyes:

it had a heater, it just didn't work that great.

Awwww, I loved those little cars! As I remember it, the heater was just a hose running from the engine with a knob to either open it, or close it. No fancy blower motor, etc.

I was amazed to hear on the news last night that the GM plant in Arlington, TX turns out 800 SUVs a DAY!!! Even though their day is 24 hrs, seems like a LOT of gas guzzlers coming off the line every third shift!

No, I did not. I was talking about the myth of the the factory workers making as much as bank executives. I guess I didn't realize you were trying to change the subject.

:rolleyes:

Dharma, you can be such a prick sometimes. (Sometimes???)

We're not talking about FACTORY workers, dear. We are and have always been talking about GENERAL MOTORS UAW MEMBERS. It doesn't matter what their title, they all make basically the same wages... BIG ones.

If you think otherwise, you're totally out of touch with union reality.

it had a heater, it just didn't work that great.

You may be right about that.
It's been almost 40 years since me and me bud,worked weekly
on his Beetle.I doubt there was a single thing we dint problem solve
on his '69 Beetle.

Dharma, you can be such a prick sometimes.

And you can be a complete bitch a lot of the time. Whats your point?


We're not talking about FACTORY workers, dear. We are and have always been talking about GENERAL MOTORS UAW MEMBERS.

News Flash SMW - they are also factory workers.


It doesn't matter what their title, they all make basically the same wages... BIG ones.

And that is the big, stupid lie on your part.


If you think otherwise, you're totally out of touch with union reality.

I already proved you are a huge liar who doesn't know shit about what the GM employees make.

And you can be a complete bitch a lot of the time. Whats your point?



News Flash SMW - they are also factory workers.



And that is the big, stupid lie on your part.




I already proved you are a huge liar who doesn't know shit about what the GM employees make.

Newsflash, Dharma. They are NOT also factory workers!!!

Newsflash II, Dharma. You are the one showing your stupidity. And keep digging yourself deeper and deeper with every stupid post on this subject!

Keep it up, dear. It's not like you've got a stellar rep to uphold around here anyway.

:lolhit:

Awwww, I loved those little cars! As I remember it, the heater was just a hose running from the engine with a knob to either open it, or close it. No fancy blower motor, etc.

I was amazed to hear on the news last night that the GM plant in Arlington, TX turns out 800 SUVs a DAY!!! Even though their day is 24 hrs, seems like a LOT of gas guzzlers coming off the line every third shift!

**********************************

Thats sounds about right.Just a Vent line.And that cartoonish
Euro knob the size of Mr.Magoo's buttons.

Newsflash, Dharma. They are NOT also factory workers!!!

:lolhit:

Oh REALLY??? So where do GM UAW members make their cars, if not in a factory? In a field? In a parking lot? Do tell...
Do enlighten me with your "vast" knowledge of the auto industry.

:rolleyes:

:lolhit:

Oh REALLY??? So where do GM UAW members make their cars, if not in a factory? In a field? In a parking lot? Do tell...
Do enlighten me with your "vast" knowledge of the auto industry.

:rolleyes:

GM also employs THOUSANDS of people who work in PARTS warehouses that have absolutely nothing to do with the assembly of cars (or the assembly of parts, for that matter). Where do you think the PARTS come from that are put together to assemble the cars, oh great one?

The official name of that division is Parts Distribution Centers (or PDCs). They're located all over the country.

Apology accepted.

:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=smartmouthwoman]GM also employs THOUSANDS of people who work in PARTS warehouses that have absolutely nothing to do with the assembly of cars (or the assembly of parts, for that matter). Where do you think the PARTS come from that are put together to assemble the cars, oh great one?

The official name of that division is Parts Distribution Centers (or PDCs). They're located all over the country.

Apology accepted.


Um,Dearest Weary Pooh pooh's...We're talkin AUTOWORKER's.
NOT Parts makers or suppliers.That's WHOLLY a different beast.

Wow

The parts workers would disagree, Fool. They're ALL UAW members who are employed by General Motors.

Trust me on this... I used to be married to one of them.

:hula:

The parts workers would disagree, Fool. They're ALL UAW members who are employed by General Motors.

Trust me on this... I used to be married to one of them.

:hula:

Delphi got busted up in the U.S. over irregular accounting practices.
The recent Collective Bargaining talks had to do with
actual GM Auto Plants.
Like the one In Parma { Very Polish } which was THE first one
to goad back on-line Today.
Who says the Polish are Dim.

Delphi got busted up in the U.S. over irregular accounting practices.
The recent Collective Bargaining talks had to do with
actual GM Auto Plants.
Like the one In Parma { Very Polish } which was THE first one
to goad back on-line Today.
Who says the Polish are Dim.

Gawd, not another one!

You're WRONG, dear.

My friend who works for the GM Parts Distribution Center was also on strike and is going back to his regular shift tomorrow. His whole WAREHOUSE was on stike and working the picket line at THEIR location. They make EXACTLY the same wages (when it comes to top salaries for high seniority) that UAW members make who assemble the cars. Yes, even their janitor. (and BTW, the janitor job is highly sought after and therefore only filled with guys with the highest seniority. It's a gravy job, according to them, and is bid on every 6 months.)

There is more to GM than assembly lines, guys. And all GM workers are UAW members. Can't believe that's so hard to understand?

:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=smartmouthwoman]Gawd, not another one!

You're WRONG, dear.

My friend who works for the GM Parts Distribution Center was also on strike and is going back to his regular shift tomorrow. His whole WAREHOUSE was on stike and working the picket line at THEIR location. They make EXACTLY the same wages (when it comes to top salaries for high seniority) that UAW members make who assemble the cars. Yes, even their janitor. (and BTW, the janitor job is highly sought after and therefore only filled with guys with the highest seniority. It's a gravy job, according to them, and is bid on every 6 months.)

There is more to GM than assembly lines, guys. And all GM workers are UAW members. Can't believe that's so hard to understand?
************************************************** ***
Well then I applaud you for due dilligence.
I must admit I was hazarding a guess as to if UAW workers entail
subsidiary work.
But,there is also a downside to being a bit uppity on matters of being
in the right.If yer found out to have Erred,it's FAR better to Err with a
mere Fool,than sums ... Dhar'bums!

:corn:

If yer found out to have Erred,it's FAR better to Err with a
mere Fool,than sums ... Dhar'bums!
That was actually rather clever.

Well then I applaud you for due dilligence.
I must admit I was hazarding a guess as to if UAW workers entail
subsidiary work.
But,there is also a downside to being a bit uppity on matters of being
in the right.If yer found out to have Erred,it's FAR better to Err with a
mere Fool,than sums ... Dhar'bums!

Amen to that last line. At least you don't call me a LIAR.

People who work at the PDCs would be outraged to be called 'subsidiaries.' After all, where do you think all the pieces necessary to assemble a vehicle come from?? They ship railcars full of pieces everyday... to all GM assembly plants.

"Hey, mac... I need 800 right fenders for a Suburban. Can you bring those outta the stockroom for me, please?"

Gawd, not another one!

You're WRONG, dear.

My friend who works for the GM Parts Distribution Center was also on strike and is going back to his regular shift tomorrow. His whole WAREHOUSE was on stike and working the picket line at THEIR location. They make EXACTLY the same wages (when it comes to top salaries for high seniority) that UAW members make who assemble the cars. Yes, even their janitor. (and BTW, the janitor job is highly sought after and therefore only filled with guys with the highest seniority. It's a gravy job, according to them, and is bid on every 6 months.)

There is more to GM than assembly lines, guys. And all GM workers are UAW members. Can't believe that's so hard to understand?

:rolleyes:

This statement is correct, the distribution center is part of GM and they were also on strike.

I thought Dharma was from Michigan, how can he not know that?

This statement is correct, the distribution center is part of GM and they were also on strike.

I thought Dharma was from Michigan, how can he not know that?

Who knows, nini. But he sure left this discussion with egg on his face, huh?

Glad they went back to work. My friend's wife is going with me to Vegas next month and she sure was hating to go off and leave him at home... on strike!

:)
SMW

I thought Dharma was from Michigan, how can he not know that?


please tell me you're joking

GM also employs THOUSANDS of people who work in PARTS warehouses that have absolutely nothing to do with the assembly of cars (or the assembly of parts, for that matter).

Actually SMW, the parts warehouses do not have that many employees at all when compared to the manufacturing, assembly and stamping plants.

They only have roving IT personnel who cover multiple sites, somtimes across multiple states.


Where do you think the PARTS come from that are put together to assemble the cars, oh great one?

Parts suppliers. Separate private companies that specialize in certain kinds of parts.



The official name of that division is Parts Distribution Centers (or PDCs). They're located all over the country.


Yes that is one type of location that auto companies have, but it doesn't have anything to do with your ridiculous, laughable, pathetic claim that UAW workers make as much as bank executives.

You are a slave to a myth that was ridiculous back when it was first put forward but has absolutely no basis in reality today.

FYI, PDCs are often co-located with Sales Zones so they can save on IT costs.

:thumbs:

This statement is correct, the distribution center is part of GM and they were also on strike.

I thought Dharma was from Michigan, how can he not know that?

Whether or not the PDC was on strike was never part of the discussion. Of course I am aware of that.

The subject of the discussion was SMW's claim that UAW employees make as much as bank VPs.

A claim I proved wrong with hard data which has caused her to go on this desperate bender to try and change the subject.

:)
DB

Whether or not the PDC was on strike was never part of the discussion. Of course I am aware of that.

The subject of the discussion was SMW's claim that UAW employees make as much as bank VPs.

A claim I proved wrong with hard data which has caused her to go on this desperate bender to try and change the subject.

:)
DB

My Family has had friends that were bankers.Depending on the size
of the town,many local communities had branch Presidents that
made so little {in way of salary} as to literally be ashamed of
even mentioning it.Many Bank branch Presidents DON'T make as
much as a Senior UAW Autoworker.It was more a Job of
Social standing than Earned wages.Why do think Soooooooooooo
many Bank higher up's float around so much.

Fool,

I referr you back to post #35.

From Salary.com (http://salary.monster.com):

A private retail banking Vice President, in my area, makes:

25th Percentile = $136,555
Median = $176,321
75th Percentile = $226,350

A Senior Tool and Die Maker, in my area, earns:

25th Percentile = $54,099
Median = $61,223
75th Percentile = $67,660

:thumbs:
DB

Whether or not the PDC was on strike was never part of the discussion. Of course I am aware of that.

The subject of the discussion was SMW's claim that UAW employees make as much as bank VPs.

A claim I proved wrong with hard data which has caused her to go on this desperate bender to try and change the subject.

:)
DB

:lolhit:

Give it up, Dharma. You're looking like a bigger idiot by not admitting you were wrong. If you remember, I retracted the bank PRESIDENT comment. Using that as a feeble attempt to save face only proves what a small person you really are.

My friend with 30+ years at GM makes over $100K a year, including OT. Neither he nor most of the assembly workers are machine tool and die makers. Their salaries are determined by their seniority and the UAW pay scale, not their job title. Therefore, your point is moot.

End of discussion.

SMW

Anyone else notice DHarma is like a super dick lately,,, funny thing is i havent fought with him in weeks.

Give it up, Dharma. You're looking like a bigger idiot by not admitting you were wrong.

Are you high?
I was not wrong, as evidenced by the proof above. ;)


If you remember, I retracted the bank PRESIDENT comment.

Yes, and then you "corrected" yourself and tried to claim Vice Presidents, which is why that is what I searched for in the proof you see above.


Using that as a feeble attempt to save face only proves what a small person you really are.

I have to laugh at how you manage to say something really stupid, right when I thought you couldn't possibly look any dumber.


My friend with 30+ years at GM makes over $100K a year, including OT.

Notice you have to add "including OT" which proves my point even further in the fact that your "friend" isn't making anywhere near what a bank VP makes per hour.



End of discussion.


For your sake I certainly hope you stop saying stupid things, but I am enjoying laughing at you.

:thumbs:
DB

Anyone else notice DHarma is like a super dick lately,,, funny thing is i hvaent fought with him in weeks.

Notice I am only a dick to people who are dicks to me first (SMW for example).
I give what I get.

;)

I know I said END OF DISCUSSION, but hadn't read one of your last posts and couldn't resist rubbing your face in it a little more.

I said:

We're not talking about FACTORY workers, dear. We are and have always been talking about GENERAL MOTORS UAW MEMBERS.

You said:

News Flash SMW - they are also factory workers.

I said:

It doesn't matter what their title, they all make basically the same wages... BIG ones.

You said:

And that is the big, stupid lie on your part.

If you KNEW about the PDC, why did you insist they were all factory workers?

Keep squirming, dear. I haven't had this much fun with a topic since I've been here!

;)
SMW