Pentagon Sued Over Mandatory Christianity
By Jason Leopold
t r u t h o u t | Report

Tuesday 18 September 2007

A military watchdog organization filed a lawsuit in federal court Tuesday against the Pentagon, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, and a US Army major, on behalf of an Army soldier stationed in Iraq. The suit charges the Pentagon with widespread constitutional violations by allegedly trying to force the soldier to embrace evangelical Christianity and then retaliating against him when he refused.

The complaint, filed in US District Court in Kansas City, by the nonprofit Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF), on behalf of Jeremy Hall, an Army specialist currently on active duty in Speicher, Iraq, alleges that Hall's First Amendment rights were violated beginning last Thanksgiving when, because of his atheist beliefs, he declined to participate in a Christian prayer ceremony commemorating the holiday.

"Immediately after plaintiff made it known he would decline to join hands and pray, he was confronted, in the presence of other military personnel, by the senior ranking ... staff sergeant who asked plaintiff why he did not want to pray, whereupon plaintiff explained because he is an atheist," says the lawsuit, a copy of which was provided to Truthout. "The staff sergeant asked plaintiff what an atheist is and plaintiff responded it meant that he (plaintiff) did not believe in God. This response caused the staff sergeant to tell plaintiff that he would have to sit elsewhere for the Thanksgiving dinner. Nonetheless, plaintiff sat at the table in silence and finished his meal."

Moreover, the complaint alleges that on August 7, when Hall received permission by an Army chaplain to organize a meeting of other soldiers who shared his atheist beliefs, his supervisor, Army Major Paul Welborne, broke up the gathering and threatened to retaliate against the soldier by charging him with violating the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The complaint also alleges that Welborne vowed to block Hall's reenlistment in the Army if the atheist group continued to meet - a violation of Hall's First Amendment rights under the Constitution. Welborne is named as a defendant in the lawsuit.
more...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091807R.shtml

the second charge seems far more un-constitutional. In the first one the "superior" officer bluffed and got called on it.

Pentagon Sued Over Mandatory Christianity

more...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091807R.shtml

I may have to come back to this topic. Dharmabum why don't you post more?

tuck

Thank goodness for Michael L. Weinstein. He is a leader in the movement to restore the Constitutionally mandated separation of church and state in the US miliatary. If you have not read his book it is an eye-opener. "WITH GOD ON OURSIDE." www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org (http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org)

So the guy was confronted for not praying? so what? How about what happened to me? The duty NCO for no reaosn decided that he wanted to have some fun and on a saturday came to my barraks room and made me get into BDU's and go outside and low crawl through the sand pit for an hour, then made me go back inside and GI my room which he procceded to come into and inspect. The bed was to close to the wall so I had to go mop and buff the batallion CP all night. Cry me a river, had to sit in silence the rest of the meal :rolleyes:

Pentagon Sued Over Mandatory Christianity

more...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091807R.shtmlIn over twenty years in the Navy, I never saw anything like this occur. If it did, in fact, happen as alleged, it is due to some individuals and does not represent a systemic problem. So why sue the "Pentegon?"

I never saw it happen either. What we have here is just another chink in the armor to attack the military for not being PC.

Some people just look to find some payday and there are always attorneys out there telling them how strong their case is, looking for a check for themselves or attention to their cause/practice. There are so many unbelievable lawsuits (and a bunch of them win, for god's sakes!) that I don't know where to start.

Here's a try, though:

It's time once again to review the winners of the Annual "Stella Awards." The Stella Awards are named after 81 year-old Stella Liebeck who spilled hot coffee on herself and successfully sued McDonald's (in NM). That case inspired the Stella awards for the most frivolous, ridiculous, successful lawsuits in the United States.

Here are this year's winners:

5th Place (tie):
Kathleen Robertson of Austin, Texas, was awarded $80,000 by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running inside a furniture store. The owners of the store were understandably surprised at the verdict, considering the misbehaving little toddler was Ms.Robertson's son.
5th Place (tie):
19-year-old Carl Truman of Los Angeles won $74,000 and medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a Honda Accord. Mr. Truman apparently didn't notice there was someone at the wheel of the car when he was trying to steal his neighbor's hubcaps.
5th Place (tie):
Terrence Dickson of Bristol, Pennsylvania, was leaving a house he had just finished robbing by way of the garage. He was not able to get the garage door to go up since the automatic door opener was malfunctioning. He couldn't re-enter the house because the door connecting the house and garage locked when he pulled it shut. The family was on vacation, and Mr. Dickson found himself locked in the garage for eight days. He subsisted on a case of Pepsi he found, and a large bag of dry dog food. He sued the homeowner's insurance claiming the situation caused him undue mental anguish. The jury agreed to the tune of $500,000.

4th Place:
Jerry Williams of Little Rock, Arkansas, was awarded $14,500 and medical expenses after being bitten on the buttocks by his next door neighbor's beagle. The beagle was on a chain in its owner's fenced yard. The award was less than sought because the jury felt the dog might have been just a little provoked at the time by Mr. Williams who had climbed over the fence into the yard and was shooting it repeatedly with a pellet gun.

3rd Place:
A Philadelphia restaurant was ordered to pay Amber Carson of Lancaster, Pennsylvania, $113,500 after she slipped on a soft drink and broke her coccyx (tailbone). The beverage was on the floor because Ms. Carson had thrown it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an argument.

2nd Place:
Kara Walton of Claymont, Delaware, successfully sued the owner of a night club in a neighboring city when she fell from the bathroom window to the floor and knocked out her two front teeth. This occurred while Ms.Walton was trying to sneak through the window in the ladies room to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge. She was awarded $12,000 and dental expenses.

1st Place:
This year's run away winner was Mrs. Merv Grazinski of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Mrs. Grazinski purchased a brand new 32-foot Winnebago motor home. On her first trip home, (from an OU football game), having driven onto the freeway, she set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly left the drivers seat to go into the back & make herself a sandwich. Not surprisingly, the RV left the freeway, crashed and overturned.
Mrs.Grazinski sued Winnebago for not advising her in the owner's manual that she couldn't actually do this. The jury a! warded h er $1,750,000 plus a new motor home. The company actually changed their manuals on the basis of this suit, just in case there were any other complete morons around.

calmly left the drivers seat to go into the back & make herself a sandwich. Not surprisingly, the RV left the freeway, crashed and overturned.



:lolhit:

My favorite is Third place. Damn!

Stella awards, eh? Why do I suspect each of those cases have a lot more to them? (much like Stella's case) I guess it's because it's impossible to get a jury of six or more completely crazy people.

And it's really not crazy to believe that government employees in a government environment cannot front you out for not practicing Christianity.

Some people just look to find some [I]payday and there are always attorneys out there telling them how strong their case is, looking for a check for themselves or attention to their cause/practice. There are so many unbelievable lawsuits (and a bunch of them win, for god's sakes!) that I don't know where to start.

1st Place:
This year's run away winner was Mrs. Merv Grazinski of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Mrs. Grazinski purchased a brand new 32-foot Winnebago motor home. On her first trip home, (from an OU football game), having driven onto the freeway, she set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly left the drivers seat to go into the back & make herself a sandwich. Not surprisingly, the RV left the freeway, crashed and overturned.
Mrs.Grazinski sued Winnebago for not advising her in the owner's manual that she couldn't actually do this. The jury a! warded h er $1,750,000 plus a new motor home. The company actually changed their manuals on the basis of this suit, just in case there were any other complete morons around.

Just for the hell of it, I just decided to check out your "first place" lawsuit:

It's an urban legend, dude. Check your facts before you spread this shit around.

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3447

Edit: There's more. Here's another website claiming that all of these alleged lawsuits are partially or completely fabricated.

http://www.stellaawards.com/bogus.html

The next thing that they will come up with is, "Don't ask and don't tell." Or they will kick you out like the do the homosexuals :)

tuck

I know in my office there are a lot of libs who are anti christian. i don't mean just don't practice it, but outright mock it. They buy litle props and put em aroud the office like the 666 sign and constantly make jokes about jesus. How do you think that makes chrisitans in the office feel? this is a government office too.

Thats fine Trav... christianity is taboo in today's culture... you could say that the ultimate non-conformist in today's generation and society is the christian who stands firm in his/her beliefs. They don't have sex until they are married **GASP**, they are respectful, kind, and curtious... something today's pop-society hates, they don't want to be on a reality show or Jerry Springer, they are boringly nice and don't try to paint an aura of mystery or danger on them... now THAT takes balls to do in today's society... I respect the hell out of teenagers who cling to their roots and don't follow the crowd.

I know in my office there are a lot of libs who are anti christian. i don't mean just don't practice it, but outright mock it. They buy litle props and put em aroud the office like the 666 sign and constantly make jokes about jesus. How do you think that makes chrisitans in the office feel? this is a government office too.

Are they fronting you out for being a Christian? If so, then they're just as bad. If they're just making jokes with each other or have personal items that reflect their religious beliefs, they can do that (unless they're doing it in such a way that they're actually trying to harass Christians somehow).

Lets see, if a group of people amde racial jokes all day around ethnic people would they have to actually make fun of the person directly for it to be wrong?

Lets see, if a group of people amde racial jokes all day around ethnic people would they have to actually make fun of the person directly for it to be wrong?

First off, you and I both know our culture is much more sensitive to racial prejudice than religious prejudice, so you're comparing apples and oranges.

Second, there's a difference between making jokes about Christians and making jokes about Jesus. Kindof like the difference between jokes about blacks and jokes about Martin Luther King.

Depends on the context of the joke Leper...

I would say that making fun of christianity.. openly claiming it is false and even rudely bashing it publicly is far more accepted than ANY questioning of other religions. It has just become the norm.. and part of the problem is that it's a backlash from idiot, cold-hearted christians who can't stand that someone won't accept THEIR way of life.

I'm betting that you can be at your work place and say "fuck Jesus".. and while there might be a silence, no law suits, no riots, no nothing... unless you have an egoist, southern-drawl fundamentalist with a bad temper at your work place..

People just don't understand that religion is very sacred to some people, and they have every right to hold it sacred. And what happens when someone bashes something sacred of yours? An emotional response.

It's just like if your mother just died... and I came up to you at a bar while you were trying to drink your sorrows away and said "Hey asshole.. I fucked your mom last night, that dirty fuckin whore!"... You'd probably be all over the guy, punching his teeth through his brain.. hell, you'd probably do the same even if she was alive. It's just something that is close to some people.. and then you have people who don't understand come in and fuck with you... "666!!! SATAANNNN!!!"... it can get under someone's skin... I would just brush it off, ease the tension with a joke.. I have thick skin. But not everyone does.

I would say that making fun of christianity.. openly claiming it is false and even rudely bashing it publicly is far more accepted than ANY questioning of other religions.

Maybe. However, I would guess atheists are more unpopular, but are less often the subject of conversation because there are quantitatively less of them and they tend to keep their identity more under wraps.

I'm betting that you can be at your work place and say "fuck Jesus".. and while there might be a silence, no law suits, no riots, no nothing... unless you have an egoist, southern-drawl fundamentalist with a bad temper at your work place..

You know, there's nothing illegal about saying "fuck Jesus" unless you're doing it with the knowledge that it's going to start a fight or posting it in a courtroom or some such.

Even with that being so, that certainly would not be okay at any place I've ever worked. Nor have I ever witnessed this openly hostile attitude toward Christians in my life....Now, I've heard this attitude behind closed doors, but not in public.

I know in my office there are a lot of libs who are anti christian. i don't mean just don't practice it, but outright mock it. They buy litle props and put em aroud the office like the 666 sign and constantly make jokes about jesus. How do you think that makes chrisitans in the office feel? this is a government office too.

Travh there is no reason why those lib. people shouldn't be anti Christian. Granted some of them are Nappys, but at the same time alot of Christians, at least in the past and so far, are and have been very judgemental and abusive and narrow minded. When Jesus said on the Cross, "Forgive them Father they know not what they do." Jesus might have been asking non Christians to be better Christians than Christians. Maybe?

tuck

Just for the hell of it, I just decided to check out your "first place" lawsuit:

It's an urban legend, dude. Check your facts before you spread this shit around.

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3447

Edit: There's more. Here's another website claiming that all of these alleged lawsuits are partially or completely fabricated.

http://www.stellaawards.com/bogus.html
It's meant to be a joke, you killjoy, like The Onion. But I'm not suprised you'd feel a need to defend law suits! Btw, read your own link at capmag and you'll see part of the (real, not a joke) problem.

Thirty, 40 or 50 years ago, no one in their right mind would have believed the Merv Grazinski urban legend possible, but not so today. Personal responsibility has taken a back seat in our increasingly immoral and litigious society.

It's meant to be a joke, you killjoy, like The Onion. But I'm not suprised you'd feel a need to defend law suits! Btw, read your own link at capmag and you'll see part of the (real, not a joke) problem.

Thirty, 40 or 50 years ago, no one in their right mind would have believed the Merv Grazinski urban legend possible, but not so today. Personal responsibility has taken a back seat in our increasingly immoral and litigious society.

Ya Leper :) What is fifty lawers at the bottom of the ocean :) !?

tuck

A good start? A class action suit waiting to happen? Due diligence? The latest cause for a Green Peace complaint?

The list goes on and on. My wife is "one of those," so she is a trove of great lawyer jokes.

It's meant to be a joke, you killjoy, like The Onion.
[/B]

A joke, riiiiight.


Some people just look to find some payday and there are always attorneys out there telling them how strong their case is, looking for a check for themselves or attention to their cause/practice. There are so many unbelievable lawsuits (and a bunch of them win, for god's sakes!) that I don't know where to start.

Wow, that's hilarious. Now, either I am completely missing it, or there isn't anything jocular about this post.

Maybe you just don't want admit that you just carelessly disseminated a bunch of false information.

A joke, riiiiight.




Wow, that's hilarious. Now, either I am completely missing it, or there isn't anything jocular about this post.

Maybe you just don't want admit that you just carelessly disseminated a bunch of false information.

Ya Shilo :)

tuck