Cops not only arrested but tazed a student who was asking questions at a Kerry rally in Florida. This is such an obvious abuse of power the arresting officers should at the very least be suspended without pay for a month or more. First we have the cop shooting and killing the little boy and now this. Who is hiring these power mad morons?

Senator Kerry can not be blamed for this. He thought the arrest was a gross over-reaction.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE&mode=related&search=

That was a bad job. Unfortunately though, you had an undersized female Police Officer and several males who are not longer allowed to use force. For that situation to have been handled properly (calm the man down, let him leave under his own power, etc...) they would have needed to empty out the room, talk him down, and let him leave. Without that option, non-lethal force is necessary.

Today, anyone can stymie the police simply by resisting in front of a crowd.

I was a police officer for a number of years,and i worked in the department for criminal justice for 3 years. (prison system) Before my accident i was training to become an internal affairs investigator.

Here is what i see on the video... I see a person speaking at a microphone. I see a person who is incharge of the event signalling for the mic to be cut,and for the police to remove him from the exact location.

If the youth would of coropperated and left the speaking area,i would of considered it a situation that was brought under control. But the youth got happy and over zealous when the reaction to the crowd was cheers and he resisted the initial attempts of the two officers to seat him.

At this point he is moving arround erraticly,and if you look at the officers field of vision there is alto of movement from the crowd. Even people walking around... Now put yourself in the officers shoes... You have a situation that should of been cooled pretty quickly... you have a crowd of people supporting the youth,and as far as they are concerned this could get ugly really fast... an officer cannot worry if it is bunch of college kids or death row inmates.. a scary situation can spring up anywhere..

(somewhere somehow in society when you break the rules and are arrested as long as your breaking the rules for a political or other such cause your a hero)

So there comes a point in this situation where it is clear in the officers mind they need to remove him from the building. I hear almost 3 dozen commands by all the officers for him to stop resisting. If I was there and he did stop resisting i would of put him in the back of my car to cool down...ran his name.. and if everything checked out let him go......

BUT HE DIDN'T STOP RESISTING... he did realize once the female officer took out her handcuffs that he would probably go to jail and he panicked.

You hear him saying what did i do... what did I do....he was told several times to just stop resisting... and he didnt... Judging by the size of the three male officers there on scene i do not understand how this incident was allowed to escalate to the point where a taser was used.

I didnt see the taser. Not sure what officer fired it. I have used a taser several times before and it is effective. I only one time seen the person that was tasered speak after it was administered,anc in that case he was very high on PCP and Meth.... I dont see how a young college kid could take a taser hit and still be saying what did I do in the same voice and tone.... Stranger things have happened


All in all it goes without saying... If you break the rules you get punished... Who ever signaled for the youth removal had every right to. It is not a question of what politician he was talking about or anything.....Who ever was in charge had the right to do quite him Like it or not...
the RNC isnt going to ask Dharma,Truth,or FT to speak at any of its events for clear reasons.... If they went and forced themselves in,they should be arrested... This is not an issue that the boy said something pro left or anti right and was tasered.... He resisted many attempts by the officers to have him leave,and then resisted physical removal..

I do not think a taser was warented in this case,and there should be a minor reprimand to the oficer who fired. It should be re-training in proper taser situations,and possible retraining in alternative measures,and a mark in his file.

The orginal two officers need to be retrained in how to handle a suspect in close public quarters who is resisting. And all four of them need to re trained on how to quickly and without incident remove a suspect from a public gathering..

The youth should not face any charges,and hopefully he will learn a lesson that when your told to stop resisting,you will stop.... If your innocent,and all it will all be sorted out...This is not mexico... people are not arrested and put in jail for something like public speaking..

Good response, LF.

Good response, LF.

I second that.

it is simple... when a officer says STOP... you stop...

no one on here can honestly say that those two officers were briefed before the event and were told "I want anyone who says anything pro democrat to be forcefully removed and tasered in the back"

Before the usual suspects come on here and threadjack for thier own personal political agenda... Have you read a transcript of what he was saying prior to the first second of audio on the video??? Why dont you go look it up and then come back here and tell me they were wrong for wanting him removed. While your at it,go and see what Kerry said about it. About how everyone must respect law enforcment,,,, how the incident got out of control because of that.

Your right Frogger - Kerry was pleading to the 'cops' to let him answer his question - and they would not even allow it. Let's see, this is Florida right, is Jebbie Bush still governor there? :lolhit: And I'll say it anyway - It was clearly his questions that irritated the ones in command - they were probably debriefed beforehand on what questions to allow since they knew Kerry would be speaking. And tazing him when he was not threatening anyone????!!! Come on people. And Kerry has since stated that he was stunned regarding the event and has never seen anything like it.

He stopped resisting and said he would walk out with the officers. This was a case where a small group of cops fed on each other's adreniline and acted more like thugs than cops. The situation would have been much calmer had not the police acted like such bully boys.

We need a better screening process for police officers and if the statement that a woman is small is going to be used as an excuse for using excess force perhaps we should not allow small women on the force. You don't taze a man who says he will walk out of the hall because some female cop might feel inadequate to handle the situation.

Well, if you look at it from the perspective of the college, they probably paid tens of thousands of dollars to have Kerry speak at their college, and this kid was abusing their investment by launching into a senseless diatribe against Kerry. Nobody came to the event to listen to some college kid mouth off to Kerry. Kerry might be happy to spend his time that way, but the college would not be.

The cops were right to use force. They tried to use peaceful means to start with (turning off the mike, warning him verbally), but he was out of control. There was probably a better way to handle it, but the police didn't have all day to plan out their course of action. Even the best of individuals don't always make the best decision when given little time to act....you can witness this reality everytime you watch an NFL game.

Also, you can't arrest someone for public speaking, but you can arrest someone from refusing to leave the premises when they've been told to do so. (i.e. trespassing)

Something else that hasn't been mentioned on this thread is the fact that there was a former presidential candidtate in the room. That requires extra security precautions as well.

I don't know why people like Frogger expect law enforcement personnel to endure a risk of injury while this kid fights them. I say, taze away.

Yeah, the kid is really 'fighting' them. Yawn.

Here's a more recent video that I-Reporter Clarissa Jessup shot of University of Florida student Andrew Meyer
being hit by a Taser during a John Kerry event.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/ire...erry.event.cnn




I can't see what this kid did wrong.

Yeah, the kid is really 'fighting' them. Yawn.

Here's a more recent video that I-Reporter Clarissa Jessup shot of I can't see what this kid did wrong.


are you slow??? when any type of law enforcement officer tells you to STOP... you stop...... when they say PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR BACK.... you do it..... when they say QUIT RESISTING... you obey...

I can only speak for myself..... but while on active patrol i have 3 out of five times released a suspect that i had detained. When you detain a sespect it is your your own safety to figure things out,then decide what is going on..... I promise if this boy followed the directions of the officers and not acted like a Dhrama queen for the crowd he would of been escorted out of the area and released once he cooled down.

I have zero sympathy for this guy... you break the rules you pay... you refuse to pay you pay more... i promise he wont act like a fool again.

Let's see, this is Florida right, is Jebbie Bush still governor there? :lolhit:

I ask, honestly, what the hell does that have to do with anything?

THIS IS NOT AMERICA!!!!

What country do we live in..? Is this America..? Who hijacked my country..?

From what I understand, the police were given tasers to subdue a criminal as a last resort and give them an option for shooting someone.

But when you've got a suspect wrestled to the ground, with mulitple fat ass pigs on top of him, and he's a skinny 21 yo white boy, what the ... are you using a taser for? How can you possibly justify using a taser or any kind of weapon at this point..?

What are you trying to do, teach him a lesson? Obviously this is a shock campain. They are making an example of him so that other students won't get it in their heads to speak their minds or question authority.

Did it work? Will you question? Then contact the pigs who did this yourself please find contact information for the University of Florida Campus Police below. News story to follow as well. WAKE THE ... UP!!!!!!!!!! YOUR COUNTRY IS IN FLAMES!!!!!!!!!

The University of Florida Police Department
Building 51, Museum Road
P.O. Box 112150
Gainesville, Florida 32611-2150
phone: (352) 392-1111
fax: (352) 392-0539
email: updinfo@admin.ufl.edu
Office of Public Information: 352-273-3301
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE

GAINESVILLE - U.S. Sen. John Kerry's speech at the University of Florida came to a dramatic close Monday, shortly after a vocal audience member was hauled off by police and shot with a Taser gun.

The audience member was preliminarily identified by UF officials as Andrew Meyer, a UF student in the College of Journalism and Communications.

Toward the conclusion of Kerry's UF forum, Meyer approached an open microphone at the University Auditorium and demanded Kerry answer his questions. The student claimed that University Police Department officers had already threatened to arrest him, and then proceeded to question Kerry about why he didn't contest the 2004 presidential election and why there had been no moves to impeach President Bush.

A minute or so into what became a combative diatribe, Meyer's microphone was turned off and officers began trying to physically remove him from the auditorium. Meyer flailed his arms, yelling as police tried to restrain him.

He was then pushed to the ground by six officers, at which point Meyer yelled, "What have I done? What I have I done? Get away from me. Get off of me! What did I do? ... Help me! Help."

Police threatened to user a Taser on Meyer if he did not "comply," but he continued to resist being handcuffed. He was then Tased, which prompted him to scream and writhe in pain on the floor of the auditorium.

After the incident, Capt. Jeff Holcomb of the UPD said Meyer had been charged with disrupting a public event and placed in the Alachua County Jail. Holcomb said there would be an investigation into whether the officers used force appropriately, adding that employing a Taser gun would only be justified in a case where there was a threat of physical harm to officers.

As Meyer was escorted away, he was followed by several students, including Matthew Howland, 20. Howland, a UF senior who said he didn't know Meyer, said he was "appalled" by the way UPD officers handled the situation. Howland acknowledged that Meyer had acted inappropriately by "rushing" the microphone and forcing a question on Kerry.

"It's a perfect example of when officers take something to a level that is not necessary," he said. "The officers escalated that situation."

Throughout the incident, Kerry urged the audience to "cool down" and acknowledged that Meyer had raised an important question. As officers escorted Meyer from the auditorium into the lobby, Kerry went on to explain that he did not think there was sufficient evidence of voter suppression to justify contesting the 2004 election.

"We just couldn't do it in good conscience because we didn't have that evidence," he said.

(this is a repost of my reply to a simular thread here.)


I was a police officer for a number of years,and i worked in the department for criminal justice for 3 years. (prison system) Before my accident i was training to become an internal affairs investigator.

Here is what i see on the video... I see a person speaking at a microphone. I see a person who is incharge of the event signalling for the mic to be cut,and for the police to remove him from the exact location.

If the youth would of coropperated and left the speaking area,i would of considered it a situation that was brought under control. But the youth got happy and over zealous when the reaction to the crowd was cheers and he resisted the initial attempts of the two officers to seat him.

At this point he is moving arround erraticly,and if you look at the officers field of vision there is alto of movement from the crowd. Even people walking around... Now put yourself in the officers shoes... You have a situation that should of been cooled pretty quickly... you have a crowd of people supporting the youth,and as far as they are concerned this could get ugly really fast... an officer cannot worry if it is bunch of college kids or death row inmates.. a scary situation can spring up anywhere..

(somewhere somehow in society when you break the rules and are arrested as long as your breaking the rules for a political or other such cause your a hero)

So there comes a point in this situation where it is clear in the officers mind they need to remove him from the building. I hear almost 3 dozen commands by all the officers for him to stop resisting. If I was there and he did stop resisting i would of put him in the back of my car to cool down...ran his name.. and if everything checked out let him go......

BUT HE DIDN'T STOP RESISTING... he did realize once the female officer took out her handcuffs that he would probably go to jail and he panicked.

You hear him saying what did i do... what did I do....he was told several times to just stop resisting... and he didnt... Judging by the size of the three male officers there on scene i do not understand how this incident was allowed to escalate to the point where a taser was used.

I didnt see the taser. Not sure what officer fired it. I have used a taser several times before and it is effective. I only one time seen the person that was tasered speak after it was administered,anc in that case he was very high on PCP and Meth.... I dont see how a young college kid could take a taser hit and still be saying what did I do in the same voice and tone.... Stranger things have happened


All in all it goes without saying... If you break the rules you get punished... Who ever signaled for the youth removal had every right to. It is not a question of what politician he was talking about or anything.....Who ever was in charge had the right to do quite him Like it or not...
the RNC isnt going to ask Dharma,Truth,or FT to speak at any of its events for clear reasons.... If they went and forced themselves in,they should be arrested... This is not an issue that the boy said something pro left or anti right and was tasered.... He resisted many attempts by the officers to have him leave,and then resisted physical removal..

I do not think a taser was warented in this case,and there should be a minor reprimand to the oficer who fired. It should be re-training in proper taser situations,and possible retraining in alternative measures,and a mark in his file.

The orginal two officers need to be retrained in how to handle a suspect in close public quarters who is resisting. And all four of them need to re trained on how to quickly and without incident remove a suspect from a public gathering..

The youth should not face any charges,and hopefully he will learn a lesson that when your told to stop resisting,you will stop.... If your innocent,and all it will all be sorted out...This is not mexico... people are not arrested and put in jail for something like public speaking..

It is also now known that the youth in question has been known to cause pranks and take the dramtics to a new level. The person who video taped the exchange was in on it to,and this flaming incident was all part of a plan.... he did not expect the police i am sure to actually shut down his antics.
__________________

They are giving him to the government! They are going to kill him!

Watch the whole thing on the following link...

http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=157250

What a fucking dumbass. He RESISTED ARREST. This is why he was tazed. For god's sake, when a police officer tells you to put your hands behind your back and to stop resisting, you do it. It's not like they didn't warn him.

All they originally planned to do, it seems, was escort him out, and he had to resist. He brought it upon itself. I'm sure the "policemen are pigs" crowd will come in and rant about police brutality. My ass. He was clearly given multiple warnings to calm down and stop resisting. He never did. The only thing that I disagree with is the use of the taser. Tasers are supposed to be used like guns, only when there's an immediate threat to the life of someone. Pepper spray would have made more sense, though given the crowd, I can see why they didn't go that route.

If the youth would of coropperated and left the speaking area,i would of considered ...Please.

If you have even a shred of respect for the English language stop with the "would of"'s, "should of"'s and "could of"'s.

A correct usage would be "If the youth would have cooperated".

"Would" and "have" can form the contraction "would've" which is also correct.

But not "would of" for crying out loud.

That doesn't even make sense if you stop to think about it.

There was no need to tazer the kid. He said he would walk out. He was subdued and asked them to please not tazer him, not once but twice. They had him on the ground with about three tons of cop on top of him. Some small dicked cop got his rodks off by using his cattle prod on someone already subdued.

There was no need to tazer the kid. He said he would walk out. He was subdued and asked them to please not tazer him, not once but twice.
Oh please. He was still struggling, and moreover, only one of his hands was cuffed. It is HIS FAULT. Had he not resisted at first, he would have merely been escorted outside. Had he stopped resisting when the cuffs came out, he wouldn't have been tazed. He kept resisting. Ergo, his fault.

My original instinct was to side with the cops until I watched the video. He was an idiot, and he was freaking out, but I saw him get tazered after he was subdued and after he said he would leave, like Frogger said.

My original instinct was to side with the cops until I watched the video. He was an idiot, and he was freaking out, but I saw him get tazered after he was subdued and after he said he would leave, like Frogger said.
By the time he agreed to leave, he was under arrest, or at the very least being detained. It doesn't work like that. You don't get to leave AFTER you resist the cops to the point where they have to drag you across the room.

He was in a public venue. He was questioning the speaker who was willing to engage him in conversation. There was no need to escort him from the hall. John Kerry, the man on stage was answering his question and said that it was an important question that deserved an answer. This was a gross abuse of power by a bunch of yahoo cops.

He was in a public venue. He was questioning the speaker who was willing to engage him in conversation. There was no need to escort him from the hall. John Kerry, the man on stage was answering his question and said that it was an important question that deserved an answer. This was a gross abuse of power by a bunch of yahoo cops.
He had gone way over on how much time he had, not to mention he barged in after the questions were supposed to have ended. He acted like a complete dumbass. He brought it upon himself.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this topic.\


I do support your right to be totally wrong though.:lolhit:

Oh, and nevermind that he was shouting at the people in the auditorium to resist the police. "Help! Help!" They should have smacked his insolent ass over the head with a baton and carted him out unconscious. I can see how the police felt threatened in that situation.

Talk about cruel and unusual punishment. The kid was overreacting but the police officer that tasered him should be under investigation at least. I would say some time off would be the correct thing too!

are you slow??? when any type of law enforcement officer tells you to STOP... you stop...... when they say PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR BACK.... you do it..... when they say QUIT RESISTING... you obey...

I can only speak for myself..... but while on active patrol i have 3 out of five times released a suspect that i had detained. When you detain a sespect it is your your own safety to figure things out,then decide what is going on..... I promise if this boy followed the directions of the officers and not acted like a Dhrama queen for the crowd he would of been escorted out of the area and released once he cooled down.

I have zero sympathy for this guy... you break the rules you pay... you refuse to pay you pay more... i promise he wont act like a fool again.

Oh yeah??? - he was no fool and he's not one now. They grabbed him from the mike while he was still talking to Kerry-your just supposed to blindly go with a cop and accept being arrested when you've done nothing wrong? That's what you would do??? He was tazered over and over again - when he was on the ground, completely subdued by all the fat-asses -- that's what you would do..tazer him over and over while he's subdued? Uh..huh.

Oh yeah??? - he was no fool and he's not one now. They grabbed him from the mike while he was still talking to Kerry-your just supposed to blindly go with a cop and accept being arrested when you've done nothing wrong? That's what you would do???
They were not arresting him. They were trying to escort him out.

They grabbed him from the mike while he was still talking to Kerry
Perhaps you don't know the background here. King Jackass ran up to the mic which has been closed to discussion; Kerry already took what he said was the last question. Kerry allowed the guy to ask his question. King Jackass then proceeded to rant and rave for a few minutes, well over what people are allowed in this format. The cops told him his time was up and tried to escort him out.
-your just supposed to blindly go with a cop and accept being arrested when you've done nothing wrong? That's what you would do???
A) He wasn't being arrested until he started disturbing the peace by trying to stay at the mic.
B) YOU BET YOUR FUCKING ASS YOU DO. You do WHAT the man with the gun tells you. If he's arresting you or acting improperly, you sue for false imprisonment later. You file a complaint later. YOU DON'T FUCKING RESIST ARREST. Only a fucking DUMBASS would resist a police officer.
He was tazered over and over again - when he was on the ground, completely subdued by all the fat-asses -- that's what you would do..tazer him over and over while he's subdued? Uh..huh.
Oh please. He was still resisting, still trying to get up, and only had one cuff on when he was tasered, and he was only tasered once.

That's not what the video showed - but go ahead and keep throwing your tantrums on here if it makes you feel better.

That's not what the video showed - but go ahead and keep throwing your tantrums on here if it makes you feel better.
I definitely only saw him get tazered once. It seemed that he was still struggling when they tazered him but it was hard to tell. Funny how everyone seems so positive about what happened even though it's hard to see.

Please.

If you have even a shred of respect for the English language stop with the "would of"'s, "should of"'s and "could of"'s.

A correct usage would be "If the youth would have cooperated".

"Would" and "have" can form the contraction "would've" which is also correct.

But not "would of" for crying out loud.

That doesn't even make sense if you stop to think about it.

as i said before English is not my first language. It is true it is the only language i speak now and if someone were to speak to me in my native tongue i would probably resort to answering in English. I am sure my spelling leaves allot to be desired. I am sure my grammar is not great. I probably use punctuation a little reckless as well...

But is that really all you can say about my post? Honestly? This has been the third time you have been on my balls about this... If that is the only thing you can muster up to complain about,then please sir do yourself a favor and move along.... Maybe you would be more comfortable if instead of posting thoughts and opinions in here we could have a spelling bee..

Or maybe you can set up a section in here where you give a nice little lecture each day of the proper use of the English language. I mean honestly your grasping on straws here bub.

I always thought the worst thing about message boards was how people sit up here and act so righteous and mighty behind the keyboard. If I was in a coffee shop speaking the exact same things and three times in a row at the end all you could tell me was some piss-ant comment of the origin of the contraction "would've" i promise you would be picking up your teeth pieces at a time.

Oh yeah??? - he was no fool and he's not one now. They grabbed him from the mike while he was still talking to Kerry.

He jumped up and started yelling into an open mike. The Q and A part of the program was over..


your just supposed to blindly go with a cop and accept being arrested when you've done nothing wrong? .

He was not placed under arrest untill he was being put into the back of the car. There is a differance between being detained being subdued and being arrested.


That's what you would do??? He was tazered over and over again - when he was on the ground, completely subdued by all the fat-asses -- that's what you would do..tazer him over and over while he's subdued? Uh..huh.

I dont agree with him being tasered. at the time he was on the ground there was a large police force present to soundly detain him. But i agree with him being arrested. I asgree with him being chraged with inciting as riot. I agree he was acting like a JACKASS,,,,,

I also stated i believe a reprimand and retraining iare warrented for the two officers initially involved

I personally tasered several people. I dont see how he was able to continue in the same voice the same words after he was hit... I also could not see him get hit in the video... I hear him yell to an officer "dont taser me dude" so i assume that is when the weapon was brandished. And i believe he was tasered... I dojnt think he should of been.... but this guy is known for stunts like that over and over again..... one of these types of pranks were bound to go wrong sooner or later.... and Borg is right... Once you cross the line and the cuffs come out... there is no saying "time out" i will obey....

That's not what the video showed - but go ahead and keep throwing your tantrums on here if it makes you feel better.
Translation: "I got nothing."

I definitely only saw him get tazered once. It seemed that he was still struggling when they tazered him but it was hard to tell. Funny how everyone seems so positive about what happened even though it's hard to see.

Isn't this quote like an oxy-moron thingy.... kinda like when someone says same difference? or a right,wrong answer

B) YOU BET YOUR FUCKING ASS YOU DO. You do WHAT the man with the gun tells you. If he's arresting you or acting improperly, you sue for false imprisonment later. You file a complaint later. YOU DON'T FUCKING RESIST ARREST. Only a fucking DUMBASS would resist a police officer..

you realize borg the police knew it was all being filmed and if this type of resistance was happening say behind an alley or somewhere out of the public eye,,,, this would of been a totally differangt ball game... no taser needed....

I always thought the worst thing about message boards was how people sit up here and act so righteous and mighty behind the keyboard. If I was in a coffee shop speaking the exact same things and three times in a row at the end all you could tell me was some piss-ant comment of the origin of the contraction "would've" i promise you would be picking up your teeth pieces at a time.

I was being sarcastic.... I am not threatening you nor would i knock your teeth out for you making fun of my grammar

But is that really all you can say about my post? Honestly? This has been the third time you have been on my balls about this... If that is the only thing you can muster up to complain about,then please sir do yourself a favor and move along....Ha ha! There's little point in debating you. Every time I stick you on a point you run away like a dog that's been spanked. Maybe if you showed a little more stamina you'd be worth the time. I am quite serious, however, about the "would of" thing. You really shouldn't expect people to treat your opinions with respect when you are abusing the language with which you express them. I mean honestly your grasping on straws here bub.*you're*I always thought the worst thing about message boards was how people sit up here and act so righteous and mighty behind the keyboard. If I was in a coffee shop speaking the exact same things and three times in a row at the end all you could tell me was some piss-ant comment of the origin of the contraction "would've" i promise you would be picking up your teeth pieces at a time.ROFL!! Man, you are way too easy. :)

Ha ha! There's little point in debating you. Every time I stick you on a point you run away like a dog that's been spanked. Maybe if you showed a little more stamina you'd be worth the time. I am quite serious, however, about the "would of" thing. You really shouldn't expect people to treat your opinions with respect when you are abusing the language with which you express them.*you're*ROFL!! Man, you are way too easy. :)

So I speak about how i would of handled this situation as a former police officer and you comment on grammar.... I challenge you to come up with something better than that and you again come at me with grammar.....

You talk about me not being worth your time.... you stick me on a point..... Difference between me and you is when i am wrong,or at least not totally correct I will admit it and shake hands and walk away.... Tis YOU who expect everyone to run away like a spanked dog when you think you are correct (who the hell hits dogs anyways....)

I am still waiting for you to for once say something about my post. Your only comment on this whole thread was to fuck with me. You will talk about people respecting my opinions.... I posted here and several people commented and a little conversation developed. This is what a message board is.... If you feel i am disrespecting you by using the wrong contraction then,then simply ignore me. I could care less....

The best way to deal with a grammar nitpick, is to either, A) ignore it, or B) take it seriously and correct your shit. Notice that the choice you selected, LF, C) throw a hissy fit, is not a correct answer.

Please try out option B. It'll make you a much better poster. Believe it or not, spelling and grammar are important. It might not seem that way to you, right now, but once you start correcting it and trying to understand how the English language works, you'll find your ability with language can grow incredibly. Want proof? How do you think I got my skills?

This is how I look at it.... I learned horrible English before i came here... I came to the Northeastern PA area and learned alot of high school. I almost totally got rid of my accent and if i pay close attention you would have no reason to believe English is my primary language.

I relocate to the south and I hear people totally mangle the language. it is not only their primary language but they are speaking That way WITH formal schooling. I hear young children in the market speak horribly,then i hear the parents speak just as bad. My niece comes home with documents from the school explaining fundraisers or upcoming exams and it is full of errors.She will bring home notes from her teachers and it is full of problems. I am not an expert by far. To have the formal training I do with English and how i actually write it is an amazing feat I don't care what anyone says. How can he or anyone complain to me,when i have a better understanding of the English language than people who lived here their own life and never left their neighborhood.

My other point was I know for a fact if he was waiting for a rail car or something and he heard two men speaking he would not dare to correct them. He wouldn't dream of it. Yet sitting behind the keyboard he can grow a set i guess.

But dear napster i fall for it all the time. I let them get to me and i blow up and well as you call it "throw a hissy fit" i am not sure what hissy means but i am sure it is not becomming...

I do not like to be looked upon as foolish... I got some issues i am dealing with and i am sure i dont do the most correct thing when it comes to emotion alot of the time. But I am not going to put too much stock into working on my english when people that have successfully made it through all the years of mandatory schooling here in this country don't know how to speak it either.

ALSO... I find it funny that these same southern people are the ones who complain about hispanics living here and not being able to speak english... I feel they need to learn it just as well.

I see a person who is incharge of the event signalling for the mic to be cut

See, I have watched the video over and over and I cannot find that anywhere.

Granted the kid is acting like a dick, but I clearly hear Senator Kerry telling the officers to release the kid and let him ask his questions. He clearly states he is willing to answer the kid's questions. I cannot see any justification for the police physically hauling him away from the microphone.

But I am not going to put too much stock into working on my english when people that have successfully made it through all the years of mandatory schooling here in this country don't know how to speak it either.
This is piss-poor logic of the worst kind. You're not learning it for them, you're learning it for yourself. You're learning it because it gives you a real edge you can use in all areas of life. You're learning it because when negotiating for a salary, your use of language can make a ten, twenty, thirty thousand dollar difference in your negotiated amount.

Do not take as a role model the dregs of the human race. Stand up and dare to be different.

Cops on leave after Taser incident, student's behavior under scrutiny

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/18/student.tasered/index.html

That was a bad job. Unfortunately though, you had an undersized female Police Officer and several males who are not longer allowed to use force. For that situation to have been handled properly (calm the man down, let him leave under his own power, etc...) they would have needed to empty out the room, talk him down, and let him leave. Without that option, non-lethal force is necessary.

Today, anyone can stymie the police simply by resisting in front of a crowd.

That would make sense apart from the fact that the kid didn't do anything to warrant 6 cops dragging him from the mike. He didn't need talking down. It was a political speech with a questions and answers session for Christ's sake. People are supposed to ask tough questions. Asking tough questions is not 'inciting a riot'

There was only one possible approach that makes even the slightest ounce of sense - that would have been that they let Kerry answer the question and the kid went back to his seat - which is exactly what would have happened if the cops involved had an IQ over 65.

Those cops should all be fired & and some new recuits should be hired from Macdonalds. The cop who used the Taser should spend the next 3 months in jail. The root problem is cops get paid shit wages and so you end up with knuckle head morons as cops that don't have more than 2 braincells to rub together. No doubt that cop had been itchin to use that Taser because it's a cool shiney toy and it makes a kick ass electrical type of noise when you pull the trigger plus it has a 'stun mode' just like those similar sounding weapons on star trek - phasers.

I hope the kid sues the University for millions.

OOPS!!

I didnt see this post before i posted mine on General Discussions about this.


NO such thing as free speech anymore,this country is going down the tubes FAST!!!

OOPS!!

I didnt see this post before i posted mine on General Discussions about this.


NO such thing as free speech anymore,this country is going down the tubes FAST!!!

There's plenty of free speech in this country - the issue is not that, it's the willingness of society to value cops & pay them a decent wage. Instead we pay them crap - I bet not one of those knuckleheads is paid over $30K a year. What can we expect? We get burger flippers who manage to pass some lame tests & then act suprised when they act like burger flippers.

By the time he agreed to leave, he was under arrest, or at the very least being detained. It doesn't work like that. You don't get to leave AFTER you resist the cops to the point where they have to drag you across the room.

So, according to your way of thinking if you are arrested and stop resisting it is okay for the cops to taser you. You don't get to leave after you first resist. I guess the tazering was some sort of punishment, right. You didn't just come along quietly at first and even though we had you subdued and you said you would walk out with us we will tazer you anyway to sort of show you who is boss. With an attitude like yours I hope you never become a cop.

Some posters have said Meyer was yelling at Senator Kerry. I didn't hear any yelling. All I heard was a person asking questions. I don't like Meyer. I think he is an ass but since when is being an ass sufficient provocation for tazering.

These were not street cops but campus police, more like rent a fuzz you find at the mall than actual police officers. They should all be disciplined and the one wielding the tazer should be fired. The university does not need 'trigger happy' security on campus.

Yeah Uncle Jeb sent the kid to the college, and told the cops to start tazing.


Your right Frogger - Kerry was pleading to the 'cops' to let him answer his question - and they would not even allow it. Let's see, this is Florida right, is Jebbie Bush still governor there? :lolhit: And I'll say it anyway - It was clearly his questions that irritated the ones in command - they were probably debriefed beforehand on what questions to allow since they knew Kerry would be speaking. And tazing him when he was not threatening anyone????!!! Come on people. And Kerry has since stated that he was stunned regarding the event and has never seen anything like it.

Some posters have said Meyer was yelling at Senator Kerry. I didn't hear any yelling. All I heard was a person asking questions. I don't like Meyer. I think he is an ass but since when is being an ass sufficient provocation for tazering.

These were not street cops but campus police, more like rent a fuzz you find at the mall than actual police officers. They should all be disciplined and the one wielding the tazer should be fired. The university does not need 'trigger happy' security on campus.


I still don't understand why the cops should have to risk injury to deal with the kid. He was fighting them: that's how people, including cops, get hurt. Once there is a risk of injury, tazing is appropriate.

I'm sure if they just wrestled him into submission, but in the process they broke his arm, y'all would be screaming bloody murder. The cops are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

A correct usage would be "If the youth would have cooperated".


Seriously, spare us, sedan. This language-police crap is not related to the discussion. If you want to play spelling cop, you're gonna (that's right: a colloquial contraction for "going to") clog up the boards with wasted space.

What I love about this place is that we often hear such phrases as "Men don't understand the abortion issue" or "Well, were you ever even in the military" or "What do you know about healthcare, my wife had health issues" or "Yeah, wait till you start paying taxes" or "Bad healthcare. Have you ever even been to England?".

Yet, when a police story comes up, everyone is a damned law enforcement genius.

I don't care what anyone else here does for a living, but try this:
Next time you have to make an "important" decision, imagine you get one shot at it, there's a crowd around, someone is videotaping and over the next month "geniuses" are going to pick apart what you did as they sit in front of their computers.

Sassy, Drew and Frogger, Here's something that happened to me once. Tell me what you would do and I'll tell you what actually happened:
At 10:00 PM on a Saturday night you get called to a disturbance on Central Park South in Manhattan. A crowd of about two hundred people are gathered there. A limo driver has refused to move his car, which is illegally parked, and a doorman is yelling at him to move.
You ask the man, 6'1", 200 lbs, to get back in his car and drive it away and he refuses to do either. The crowd is yelling at you and the three other officers you are with.
Horns are blaring because he is in a taxi stand, traffic is stopped on CPS and the guy is leaning against his trunk lighting a cigarette staring at you. The crowd is starting to laugh and yell.
Pretty simple, right? Are you going to use force? He isn't violent. Are you going to arrest him for parking illegally? Are you going to fight him for the keys and move the car yourself?
You have about thirty seconds to decide before the crowd grows, the traffic gets worse and a potential riot ensues (of course you people have hours to think about it).

Go ahead.

A better usage would have been, had the youth cooperated.

We have enough grammar police around here so I try to refrain from joining their ranks and usually don't comment on someone's grammar or spelling but since Sedan feels he must correct or refine the grammar of others I felt compelled to improve his grammar.


Leper,

Police are paid to do a job. One of the unwritten parts of that job is to hurt citizens as little as possible. There was no need to tazer the young man. They had him under control, he had basically surrendered to their greater force. He was outnumbered and outweighed by at least a factor of five. The use of the tazer was unecessary and indeed uncalled for. The cop who tazered him exhibited behavior not wanted in a police officer, ie, unwarranted aggression toward a citizen. I don't know if the tazering was the result of a cop with an attitude or poor training. It should be remembered these were campus police not municipal police and anyone who has dealt with campus cops knows they are basically mall police stationed on a college campus.

At the very least an officer who exhibits the poor judgement the tazering officer exhibited should be disciplined if not removed from the job. What would such an officer do to a drunk frat boy he/she came across, club him into submission, perhaps pump him full of lead? Police should show restraint and use only the force necessary in a given situation not go off the deep end in a show of machismo.

That would make sense apart from the fact that the kid didn't do anything to warrant 6 cops dragging him from the mike.
Except he refused to leave when they asked him to.
He didn't need talking down. It was a political speech with a questions and answers session for Christ's sake. People are supposed to ask tough questions.
The questions he asked were irrelevant. The event staff, i.e. the people in control of that event, wanted him to leave because he rushed the mic when it had been closed to questions and started on a minutes-long rant. He refused to leave. Trespassing.
Asking tough questions is not 'inciting a riot'
No, but asking bystanders to resist the police sure as hell is.
So, according to your way of thinking if you are arrested and stop resisting it is okay for the cops to taser you.
But here's the thing. He didn't stop resisting, not until he had been tasered. He keeps squirming and trying to get up, refused to let the cops cuff his second wrist. They tasered him so they could get that cuff on his other wrist.

Except he refused to leave when they asked him to.

The questions he asked were irrelevant. The event staff, i.e. the people in control of that event, wanted him to leave because he rushed the mic when it had been closed to questions and started on a minutes-long rant. He refused to leave. Trespassing.

No, but asking bystanders to resist the police sure as hell is.

But here's the thing. He didn't stop resisting, not until he had been tasered. He keeps squirming and trying to get up, refused to let the cops cuff his second wrist. They tasered him so they could get that cuff on his other wrist.

Jeez Borg - what are you a Brownshirt wannabee?

It was a political "discussion" The kid did nothing that even came close to needing 6 cops to drag him away from the mic. Kerry went well over his allotted time - I didn't see any cops dragging him to the ground.

What happened was absolutely uncalled for - it was not needed, the kid was no threat and he would have sat down himself. Kerry was answering his questions, which were all relevant questions. It's nuts of you to say "his questions were irrelevant" who are you decide what is irrelevant?

What I love about this place is that we often hear such phrases as "Men don't understand the abortion issue" or "Well, were you ever even in the military" or "What do you know about healthcare, my wife had health issues" or "Yeah, wait till you start paying taxes" or "Bad healthcare. Have you ever even been to England?".

Yet, when a police story comes up, everyone is a damned law enforcement genius.

I don't care what anyone else here does for a living, but try this:
Next time you have to make an "important" decision, imagine you get one shot at it, there's a crowd around, someone is videotaping and over the next month "geniuses" are going to pick apart what you did as they sit in front of their computers.

Sassy, Drew and Frogger, Here's something that happened to me once. Tell me what you would do and I'll tell you what actually happened:
At 10:00 PM on a Saturday night you get called to a disturbance on Central Park South in Manhattan. A crowd of about two hundred people are gathered there. A limo driver has refused to move his car, which is illegally parked, and a doorman is yelling at him to move.
You ask the man, 6'1", 200 lbs, to get back in his car and drive it away and he refuses to do either. The crowd is yelling at you and the three other officers you are with.
Horns are blaring because he is in a taxi stand, traffic is stopped on CPS and the guy is leaning against his trunk lighting a cigarette staring at you. The crowd is starting to laugh and yell.
Pretty simple, right? Are you going to use force? He isn't violent. Are you going to arrest him for parking illegally? Are you going to fight him for the keys and move the car yourself?
You have about thirty seconds to decide before the crowd grows, the traffic gets worse and a potential riot ensues (of course you people have hours to think about it).

Go ahead.

Excellent post, Brooks. I always enjoy reading your law enforcement topics. You have been there, sir.

PS My two cents--I would say that you wrote him a ticket.

Excellent post, Brooks. I always enjoy reading your law enforcement topics. You have been there, sir.


I agree. The funny part is that so far Drew and Frogger have both avoided answering the question. They're too busy trying to play armchair quarterback.

I don't care what anyone else here does for a living, but try this:
Next time you have to make an "important" decision, imagine you get one shot at it, there's a crowd around, someone is videotaping and over the next month "geniuses" are going to pick apart what you did as they sit in front of their computers.

Sassy, Drew and Frogger, Here's something that happened to me once. Tell me what you would do and I'll tell you what actually happened:
At 10:00 PM on a Saturday night you get called to a disturbance on Central Park South in Manhattan. A crowd of about two hundred people are gathered there. A limo driver has refused to move his car, which is illegally parked, and a doorman is yelling at him to move.
You ask the man, 6'1", 200 lbs, to get back in his car and drive it away and he refuses to do either. The crowd is yelling at you and the three other officers you are with.
Horns are blaring because he is in a taxi stand, traffic is stopped on CPS and the guy is leaning against his trunk lighting a cigarette staring at you. The crowd is starting to laugh and yell.
Pretty simple, right? Are you going to use force? He isn't violent. Are you going to arrest him for parking illegally? Are you going to fight him for the keys and move the car yourself?
You have about thirty seconds to decide before the crowd grows, the traffic gets worse and a potential riot ensues (of course you people have hours to think about it).

Go ahead.

You don't have to be a genius to figure out that a kid asking questions at a political forum doesn't need to be dragged to the floor by 6 cops and Tasered.

As to the scenario above - why is that even relevant? I have no clue what I'd do - I'm not a cop, but even though I'm not a cop I know I wouldn't Taser a student asking a question at a polical forum. That's a no brainer. Your scenario is much different and has no relevance to this.

Sure - there are real situations where cops have to make tough decisions, but you seem to be of the opinion that this then gives them carte blanche to do whatever the hell they want, even when no threat even exists. You can't make an argument that ultimately means that cops should not be accountable simply because they have to make tough decisions. Well you can make the argument - essentially you already have tried to make that argument - but it holds no water. The decision in this case wasn't even remotely a tough one for anybody with an IQ over 65.

In this situation - no threat to anybody in that room existed whatsoever. Those cops made a decision - a totally stupid bad decision. Why? because they were ignorant knucklehead assholes like unfortuanately a large % of all cops are. Only a knucklehead asshole would Taser a kid asking questions at a political forum. That's the plain reality - like it or not. Don't get me wrong - I'm not against cops, I'm against the people who hire cops and the people who set cops wages too low. You get what you pay for.

They're too busy trying to play armchair quarterback.
C'mon, the cops got a new toy. Let's just let 'em play with it, right? Damn, you law-and-order types sure do scare easily!

People, these are campus cops. People who want to be all rough and tough on "the bad guys" but aren't good enough to make it to the REAL police force.

Think about that for a minute.

Now think about it for a few more minutes.

Campus cops.

Secondly, this was an event where the audience was invited/expected to ask questions. This young man (who was rude and forceful with his questions, no doubt, but it's not against the law to be annoying), was exercising his Constitutional right to free speech. In a place where the audience was invited to interact with the speaker. The speaker didn't have a problem with the young man's questions, was willing to listen to them and respond, and said so quite clearly.

Enter the campus cops. People who, for whatever reason, weren't hired by the State of Florida police force. This tells me that their skills, reasoning abilities, brain power, common sense, ability to keep their tempers in a tough situation, whatever, aren't quite up to snuff, and the closest they could get to playing a real cop was to be hired by a college to make sure young women get to their dorms safely at night, bust up loud frat parties, investigate bike thefts, and find out who stole the school mascot from a rival college.

Think about that again, please.

Campus cops. Playing at being real cops. When they don't have what it takes to be real cops.

:rolleyes:

Granted, the kid was a jerk, but once again, it's not against the law to be a jerk. He was in a situation where his comments/questions were invited, and the speaker had no issue with answering the kid's questions.

This whole country has become a non-free speech zone, it seems. When someone says something you don't want to hear, they somehow become bad guys that need to be tasered into submission.

It's complete bullshit and utterly unacceptable. Whatever happened to "I don't agree with you, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it?"

Now please read this article (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/01/04/INGPQ40MB81.DTL) - Quarantining dissent - and explain to me what the hell happened to free speech in this country? Are you all so bent that you actually agree with such tactics? Are you all so blind or hyper-partisan that you don't see what's happening right under your noses on a daily basis?

Doesn't anyone give a crap about the Constitution anymore?

:rant:

People, these are campus cops. People who want to be all rough and tough on "the bad guys" but aren't good enough to make it to the REAL police force.

Think about that for a minute.

Now think about it for a few more minutes.

Campus cops.

Secondly, this was an event where the audience was invited/expected to ask questions. This young man (who was rude and forceful with his questions, no doubt, but it's not against the law to be annoying), was exercising his Constitutional right to free speech. In a place where the audience was invited to interact with the speaker. The speaker didn't have a problem with the young man's questions, was willing to listen to them and respond, and said so quite clearly.

Enter the campus cops. People who, for whatever reason, weren't hired by the State of Florida police force. This tells me that their skills, reasoning abilities, brain power, common sense, ability to keep their tempers in a tough situation, whatever, aren't quite up to snuff, and the closest they could get to playing a real cop was to be hired by a college to make sure young women get to their dorms safely at night, bust up loud frat parties, investigate bike thefts, and find out who stole the school mascot from a rival college.

Think about that again, please.

Campus cops. Playing at being real cops. When they don't have what it takes to be real cops.

:rolleyes:

Granted, the kid was a jerk, but once again, it's not against the law to be a jerk. He was in a situation where his comments/questions were invited, and the speaker had no issue with answering the kid's questions.

This whole country has become a non-free speech zone, it seems. When someone says something you don't want to hear, they somehow become bad guys that need to be tasered into submission.

It's complete bullshit and utterly unacceptable. Whatever happened to "I don't agree with you, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it?"

Now please read this article (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/01/04/INGPQ40MB81.DTL) - Quarantining dissent - and explain to me what the hell happened to free speech in this country? Are you all so bent that you actually agree with such tactics? Are you all so blind or hyper-partisan that you don't see what's happening right under your noses on a daily basis?

Doesn't anyone give a crap about the Constitution anymore?

:rant:

Agree 100%

What's even more disturbing is when young educated people support the actions of those dumb campus cops.

We get burger flippers who manage to pass some lame tests & then act suprised when they act like burger flippers.Yes and we see the crap service from that also in these fast food places...

UTTER CRAP!!

Jeez Borg - what are you a Brownshirt wannabee?

It was a political "discussion" The kid did nothing that even came close to needing 6 cops to drag him away from the mic.?

what the hell tape did you watch? Two police officers told the kid to back up. TWO.... When the situation escalated two more officers assisted to remove the youth without having to toss him to the ground. Once it was clear this was a situation that was not going OT end peacefully he was taken down and the rest of the officers came in to keep the approaching crowd from closing in.



Kerry went well over his allotted time - I didn't see any cops dragging him to the ground..?

He was signaled his time was upo and he wrapped it up and was walking off stage

What happened was absolutely uncalled for - it was not needed, the kid was no threat and he would have sat down himself...?
It was a town hall style of meeting. The kid was enrolled in a journalism class and was allowed sign up before the event took place to speak. All students in that class were given fors to fill out so they could ask thier questions. He declined and took a more dramitic approach to draw more attention. He got it.


Kerry was answering his questions, which were all relevant questions. It's nuts of you to say "his questions were irrelevant" who are you decide what is irrelevant?

The content of his questions were not irrelevant,it was the fact that he decided to jump on an open mic and go into a minute long partially incohearant mummble AFTER the event was over and Kerry was walking away.


You want to have an event at your house hey no problem... shell out the bucks,and spread out open mics everywhere and allow it to be a free for all.. hell i will by a ticket.... but this school in florida had an organized event planned with rules. WHat this kid did,was not according to the rules in place and he was removed. He resisted,and acted like a jackass and it got out of control.

WHat this kid did,was not according to the rules in place and he was removed. He resisted,and acted like a jackass and it got out of control.

Yes, he acted like a jackass, but the campus cops were the ones that were out of control.

Your scenario is much different and has no relevance to this.


Duck, dodge, ignore. The question is very relevant, and you spent more time dodging the question than it would take to answer the question. The reality is you're going to blame the police no matter what they do.

You don't have to be a genius to figure out that a kid asking questions at a political forum doesn't need to be dragged to the floor by 6 cops and Tasered.

Well said. Especially when Senator Kerry is up on stage telling them to let him up and that he will answer his questions.



Sure - there are real situations where cops have to make tough decisions, but you seem to be of the opinion that this then gives them carte blanche to do whatever the hell they want, even when no threat even exists. You can't make an argument that ultimately means that cops should not be accountable simply because they have to make tough decisions. Well you can make the argument - essentially you already have tried to make that argument - but it holds no water. The decision in this case wasn't even remotely a tough one for anybody with an IQ over 65.

Very well said. The cops in this situation had no justification for physically hauling him away from the mic.

If they had just stood there, the kid would have ranted at Sen Kerry for a minute, had a video tape of himself being an asshole to put on youtube and gone and sat back down in his seat. It wasn't as if the kid were rushing the stage or anything.



In this situation - no threat to anybody in that room existed whatsoever. Those cops made a decision - a totally stupid bad decision.

I agree completely.


Don't get me wrong - I'm not against cops, I'm against the people who hire cops and the people who set cops wages too low. You get what you pay for.

I also think the power of that position attracts a certain kind of person.

.

Campus cops. Playing at being real cops. When they don't have what it takes to be real cops.


You and others seem to be hung up that they're campus cops. At my university, campus cops were ex-"real cops" who took the university jobs because they paid a lot better.

Yes, he acted like a jackass, but the campus cops were the ones that were out of control.

I dont know if you realize this but under federal guidlines all officers who are allowed to carry a taser or firearm are commissioned officers. They have and will continue toi meet the federal standards passed each year to do such.

They were not the sterotypical campus cops. They were sheriffs. They are not part of the Florida state police,but regulated and hired by the Florida state department of Criminal justice. THey are as real as cops as anything.

Do you really think Kerrys people would put him in a situation where the only uniforms there at the helm of security were some rent a cops?

You and others seem to be hung up that they're campus cops. At my university, campus cops were ex-"real cops" who took the university jobs because they paid a lot better.

Thats really sad. I know some campus cops in East Lansing and they make little more than minimum wage. Of course, they are non-union.

.

C'mon, the cops got a new toy. Let's just let 'em play with it, right? Damn, you law-and-order types sure do scare easily!

No, I just understand the consequences of not enforcing the law, or being too soft in your enforcement, as do most people who have any experience in a law enforcement situation.

Personally, I think they used the safest method possible to arrest the guy.

No, I just understand the consequences of not enforcing the law, or being too soft in your enforcement, as do most people who have any experience in a law enforcement situation.No, you just are willing to defend anyone in uniform who doesn't know squat about how to defuse a situation without resorting to a level violence that's disproportionate to the person they're dealing with.

Personally, I think they used the safest method possible to arrest the guy.
I have no doubt that you think that.

what the hell tape did you watch? Two police officers told the kid to back up. TWO.... When the situation escalated two more officers assisted to remove the youth without having to toss him to the ground. Once it was clear this was a situation that was not going OT end peacefully he was taken down and the rest of the officers came in to keep the approaching crowd from closing in.

You are missing the point. The cops even being in his face telling him to back up is crazy. The situation escalated because the cops shouldn't have even been involved in the first place.

It was a town hall style of meeting. The kid was enrolled in a journalism class and was allowed sign up before the event took place to speak. All students in that class were given fors to fill out so they could ask thier questions. He declined and took a more dramitic approach to draw more attention. He got it.

And you think that justifies cops dragging a student to the ground and tasering him when he was not any kind of threat to anybody at all - thats nuts dude! Heck if you don't fill out your forms correctly then expect to be Tasered by the campus SWAT team !

Duck, dodge, ignore. The question is very relevant, and you spent more time dodging the question than it would take to answer the question. The reality is you're going to blame the police no matter what they do.

I didn't ignore the question at all - I said I don't know what I'd do in that situation described (which was a real situation with real potential for problems unlike this situation). Whatever I would or would not do in that scenario posted is completely and absolutely of no relevance to this. The point is there was no threat, no danger, no problem at all here until those cops stepped in. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to realize that. You don't need much "police schooling" to figure this one out.

Why would I blame the Police no matter what they do? That's a really stupid statement to make & in fact betrays the true reality that you would support what the cops do no matter what - no other conclusion can be reached. I blame these cops because they were in the wrong. If the kid had pulled a gun or a knife - then sure I would have backed the cops 100%, but all he did was ask questions (that Kerry was willing to answer) and went over his time by a few seconds.

I dont know if you realize this but under federal guidlines all officers who are allowed to carry a taser or firearm are commissioned officers. They have and will continue toi meet the federal standards passed each year to do such.

Wrong. They have to meet the standards set forth by the University of Florida police department (http://www.police.ufl.edu/adm/DIR2212%20%20%203-29-05.htm) (see section 2212.4 Procedure). Whether those are less/more than/match the State of Florida police requirements or federal standards is another issue.

They are not part of the Florida state police,but regulated and hired by the Florida state department of Criminal justice.

No, they're not. They're hired by the University (http://www.police.ufl.edu/adm/DIR2212%20%20%203-29-05.htm), through the University's Human Resources Department, and regulated by the campus cop director/department (see section 2212.3 Policy).

Do you really think Kerrys people would put him in a situation where the only uniforms there at the helm of security were some rent a cops?

To paraphrase Donny Rumsfeld, "You go to war with the army you HAVE, not the one you'd like to have." Kerry had no reason to think the campus cops would be so gung-ho and out of control. I'm sure he'll think again, in the future.

No, you just are willing to defend anyone in uniform who doesn't know squat about how to defuse a situation without resorting to a level violence that's disproportionate to the person they're dealing with.


Tell me. What should they have done?

Tell me. What should they have done?

Stood back and let the kid rant for a minute and let Senator Kerry answer his questions.

And you think that justifies cops dragging a student to the ground and tasering him when he was not any kind of threat to anybody at all - thats nuts dude!


He became a threat when he physically resisted being escorted from the building.


I didn't ignore the question at all - I said I don't know what I'd do in that situation described (which was a real situation with real potential for problems unlike this situation).

And you're still dodging Brooks's question.

If the kid had pulled a gun or a knife - then sure I would have backed the cops 100%, but all he did was ask questions (that Kerry was willing to answer) and went over his time by a few seconds.

And there it is, you want the cops to wait until the kid has a chance to kill them before they can act.

You know what happens when you wait until the situation escalates further? Sometimes it does escalate further. Great strategy for law enforcement.

You know what happens when you wait until the situation escalates further? Sometimes it does escalate further. Great strategy for law enforcement.

Sounds just like Bush's excuses for invading and occupying Iraq. "WMD's! EEEK!!! ATTACK!!"

:rolleyes:

No, you just are willing to defend anyone in uniform who doesn't know squat about how to defuse a situation without resorting to a level violence that's disproportionate to the person they're dealing with.




And that's the kicker...how are the police supposed to KNOW what level of violence ANYONE is going to resort to?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I definitely only saw him get tazered once. It seemed that he was still struggling when they tazered him but it was hard to tell. Funny how everyone seems so positive about what happened even though it's hard to see.

the video from cnn and on cnn last night DF showed him being tazered 2 or three times. The guy appears to be quite a nut but I still think they should not have tazered him when he was on the ground and subdued by 4-5 officers as shown on the video.

Did the kid rush the stage? Did he whip out a weapon? Did he step away from the mic at any time? Did he threaten Kerry or anyone in the audience?

:rolleyes:

Stood back and let the kid rant for a minute and let Senator Kerry answer his questions.

How long would you allow someone to rant before you are allowed to forcefully stop them?

He jumped up and started yelling into an open mike. The Q and A part of the program was over..


He was not placed under arrest untill he was being put into the back of the



I dont agree with him being tasered. at the time he was on the ground there was a large police force present to soundly detain him. But i agree with him being arrested. I asgree with him being chraged with inciting as riot. I agree he was acting like a JACKASS,,,,,

I also stated i believe a reprimand and retraining iare warrented for the two officers initially involved

I agree with you there - definitely.

How long would you allow someone to rant before you are allowed to forcefully stop them?

Did the kid rush the stage? Did he whip out a weapon? Did he step away from the mic at any time? Did he threaten Kerry or anyone in the audience?

He became a threat when he physically resisted being escorted from the building.He would have had nothing to physically resist if he were not physically forced. When you put your hands on someone, you invite a response. Do you not know the most basic things about intervening in a crisis/stressed situation?

And there it is, you want the cops to wait until the kid has a chance to kill them before they can act.Again, you law-and-order types are so easily scared! Oh, and melodramatic, too.

You know what happens when you wait until the situation escalates further?Yeah, you get electrocuted by the cops!

Great strategy for law enforcement.Maybe these cops you love to defend should all wear brown shirts. Gawd!

How long would you allow someone to rant before you are allowed to forcefully stop them?

As long as it takes him to ask his questions and for Senator Kerry to respond.
He has a right to free speech this country.
Senator Kerry said he thought he could have handled the situation without the police intervention.

He would have had nothing to physically resist if he were not physically forced. When you put your hands on someone, you invite a response.


So any time a cop puts his hands on you, you should be allowed to fight him/her? Right.

By the way, there's plenty of scenarios where you can legally physically force someone to leave when they've made themselves unwelcome. Those scenarios include when you've come to listen to someone speak at a reserved forum and a member of the crowd interrupts the speech.

I agree. The funny part is that so far Drew and Frogger have both avoided answering the question. They're too busy trying to play armchair quarterback.

Iwas at the doctor, Leper. Sorry if my doctor's appointment interfered with a chat room.

what would I have done. I would have first called for backup and then tried to calm down the cabbies and the doorman by telling them what I had done. I would not have tazered the guy.

So any time a cop puts his hands on you, you should be allowed to fight him/her? Right.

Any real cop should know that "fight or flight" response is instinctual and every time they put their hands on someone and escalate a situation to physical confrontation, there is the chance that the person will reflexively react by fighting back. That very serious point should have been taken into consideration before they chose to escalate that situation to violence.

A citizen verbally confronting an elected official in a public place is at the very heart of freedom of speech! Even if the person is rude. That person has a right to speak and ask his questions as long as he is not posing a threat to anyone present.

.

What I love about this place is that we often hear such phrases as "Men don't understand the abortion issue" or "Well, were you ever even in the military" or "What do you know about healthcare, my wife had health issues" or "Yeah, wait till you start paying taxes" or "Bad healthcare. Have you ever even been to England?".

Yet, when a police story comes up, everyone is a damned law enforcement genius.

I don't care what anyone else here does for a living, but try this:
Next time you have to make an "important" decision, imagine you get one shot at it, there's a crowd around, someone is videotaping and over the next month "geniuses" are going to pick apart what you did as they sit in front of their computers.

Sassy, Drew and Frogger, Here's something that happened to me once. Tell me what you would do and I'll tell you what actually happened:
At 10:00 PM on a Saturday night you get called to a disturbance on Central Park South in Manhattan. A crowd of about two hundred people are gathered there. A limo driver has refused to move his car, which is illegally parked, and a doorman is yelling at him to move.
You ask the man, 6'1", 200 lbs, to get back in his car and drive it away and he refuses to do either. The crowd is yelling at you and the three other officers you are with.
Horns are blaring because he is in a taxi stand, traffic is stopped on CPS and the guy is leaning against his trunk lighting a cigarette staring at you. The crowd is starting to laugh and yell.
Pretty simple, right? Are you going to use force? He isn't violent. Are you going to arrest him for parking illegally? Are you going to fight him for the keys and move the car yourself?
You have about thirty seconds to decide before the crowd grows, the traffic gets worse and a potential riot ensues (of course you people have hours to think about it).

Go ahead.

My dear Brooks - as I have not been TRAINED as a police officer, I am not sure - but here goes: ask for his driver's license, insurance information and then give him a ticket, I would think.

As long as it takes him to ask his questions and for Senator Kerry to respond.
He has a right to free speech this country.
Senator Kerry said he thought he could have handled the situation without the police intervention.

He can rant as long as he wants? Basically, you're saying it's okay for any douschbag to completely steal the stage from Kerry. I have a feeling you wouldn't be saying that if I stood up and started loudly reading Rush Limbaugh excerpts to you during a scheduled showing of "An Inconvenient Truth."

Senator Kerry is not the one who has the right to remove him. It's the university which spent lots of resources to have Senator Kerry there. Kerry makes money no matter what.

Look, the cops over-reacted. It's as simple as that. They were angry with the kid for not falling in lockstep when they told him to and they went further than they should have. There was no need to tazer the kid. They had him safely subdued. Whatever happened before he was subdued has nothing to do with it. You don't get to tazer someone because they have pissed you off.

Some posters have said Meyer was yelling at Senator Kerry. I didn't hear any yelling. All I heard was a person asking questions. I don't like Meyer. I think he is an ass but since when is being an ass sufficient provocation for tazering.

These were not street cops but campus police, more like rent a fuzz you find at the mall than actual police officers. They should all be disciplined and the one wielding the tazer should be fired. The university does not need 'trigger happy' security on campus.


I know - every video I see it shows him thanking Kerry for his time and then proceeding to ask him about the 2004 election and why he did not contest it - (that's what I was referring to in another post here because the 2004 election was decided in Florida and Jeb Bush was governor.) Sure he went over the allotted time and so did Kerry - but Kerry was willing to listen to him and then he was pleading with the cops to let him answer his questions, as they were dragging him out. :rolleyes:

People, these are campus cops. People who want to be all rough and tough on "the bad guys" but aren't good enough to make it to the REAL police force.

Think about that for a minute.

Now think about it for a few more minutes.

Campus cops.

Secondly, this was an event where the audience was invited/expected to ask questions. This young man (who was rude and forceful with his questions, no doubt, but it's not against the law to be annoying), was exercising his Constitutional right to free speech. In a place where the audience was invited to interact with the speaker. The speaker didn't have a problem with the young man's questions, was willing to listen to them and respond, and said so quite clearly.

Enter the campus cops. People who, for whatever reason, weren't hired by the State of Florida police force. This tells me that their skills, reasoning abilities, brain power, common sense, ability to keep their tempers in a tough situation, whatever, aren't quite up to snuff, and the closest they could get to playing a real cop was to be hired by a college to make sure young women get to their dorms safely at night, bust up loud frat parties, investigate bike thefts, and find out who stole the school mascot from a rival college.

Think about that again, please.

Campus cops. Playing at being real cops. When they don't have what it takes to be real cops.

:rolleyes:

Granted, the kid was a jerk, but once again, it's not against the law to be a jerk. He was in a situation where his comments/questions were invited, and the speaker had no issue with answering the kid's questions.

This whole country has become a non-free speech zone, it seems. When someone says something you don't want to hear, they somehow become bad guys that need to be tasered into submission.

It's complete bullshit and utterly unacceptable. Whatever happened to "I don't agree with you, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it?"

Now please read this article (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/01/04/INGPQ40MB81.DTL) - Quarantining dissent - and explain to me what the hell happened to free speech in this country? Are you all so bent that you actually agree with such tactics? Are you all so blind or hyper-partisan that you don't see what's happening right under your noses on a daily basis?

Doesn't anyone give a crap about the Constitution anymore?

:rant:

Exactly my point Frannie - why the rage over this young student - he was asking questions, yeah, he didn't follow the forum, so what?

He became a threat when he physically resisted being escorted from the building.

He should never have been placed in that position & regardless - the kid put his hands in the air to show he wasn't resisting. You are nuts if you think those cops had any justifyable reason to drag him away from the mike. THATS the issue dude.

And you're still dodging Brooks's question. Tell me exactly how I have dodged the question - I've answered it in plain english - what do you require? finger puppets?

And there it is, you want the cops to wait until the kid has a chance to kill them before they can act. Yeah fantastic logic there! This situation was created by those cops. It's like a fireman starting fires so he can go put them out - would you call the fireman a hero?

He can rant as long as he wants?

Technically, that kid wasn't ranting. He was making a point. He has presented his evidence to put his question in context and then asked a series of questions and was coming to a conclusion. I believe that he sincerely wanted to hear Senator Kerry's answers to his questions, no matter what a douchbag he was in the asking.


Basically, you're saying it's okay for any douschbag to completely steal the stage from Kerry. I have a feeling you wouldn't be saying that if I stood up and started loudly reading Rush Limbaugh excerpts to you during a scheduled showing of "An Inconvenient Truth."

You are right, because that is just disruption for the sake of disruption. This kid was mildly disrupting in a public forum, but he had a serious question for a public offical that he felt very strongly about. Therein lies the world of difference between your scenario and what happened here.


Senator Kerry is not the one who has the right to remove him.

Lets get this straight right now, This is America goddammit. NOBODY had an automatic "right to remove him" unless he did something to cause a threat to public safety.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I dont know if you realize this but under federal guidlines all officers who are allowed to carry a taser or firearm are commissioned officers. They have and will continue toi meet the federal standards passed each year to do such.

They were not the sterotypical campus cops. They were sheriffs. They are not part of the Florida state police,but regulated and hired by the Florida state department of Criminal justice. THey are as real as cops as anything.

Do you really think Kerrys people would put him in a situation where the only uniforms there at the helm of security were some rent a cops?

Okay, then, that makes them look even more stupid!

I do think the cops may have overreacted a bit, but they are (and correct me if I'm wrong, Brooks or LF) trained to use the tazer to subdue people rather than other forms of physical restraint that could be more likely to result in broken bones, etc. They probably should have just wrestled him to the ground, as I'm sure 6 of them were capable of, but they were acting on instinct and their instinct would tell them to use the tazer. As someone else already said a couple pages ago, hindsight is 20/20. All this crap about "He was just talking and the nutcase cops came up and TAZERED him! Free speech is dead!" is just that, crap. It was an intense situation and none of us were there.

Tell me exactly how I have dodged the question - I've answered it in plain english - what do you require? finger puppets?

:lolhit: That was my first real laugh of the day.