He asked if cameras would be present at the jail... LOL

Told ya he just wanted attention. His frat buddies are probably laughing at him now.

So now cops can taser you if you are not polite?
Drew, you are not this fucking dense! For the fiftieth time, he was tasered because he resisted arrest. He was being arrested because he resisted being escorted out. He was being escorted out because the event staff wanted him to go. Do I think the event staff should have kicked him out? No! But it's not the fault of the bloody cops, that's the point I've been trying to make, but no one is fucking reading what I say, they just assume I hate freedom of speech! For God's sake, why the fuck is everyone in this thread purposefully trying to misconstrue what I say into some sort of anti-freedom of speech thing? Are your arguments that weak?

Were the arresting officers actual commissioned police officers or rent-a-cops?

I absolutely agree with Borg. I don't think that he deserved to be kicked out, and if I was in charge of the event staff I would not have had the cops try to escort him out. However, not the cops' fault at all!

I don't know about you, but this doesn't really sound like a guy who was getting his spleen batoned (nice image).
Yeah, he got lucky. If the cameras weren't there, he'd probably be in intensive care.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1898797/posts?page=2So, the POLICE say... very credible source! These are the same people who just tore him up, huh? Gawd. The things some people choose to believe at face value is staggering.

I absolutely agree with Borg. I don't think that he deserved to be kicked out, and if I was in charge of the event staff I would not have had the cops try to escort him out. However, not the cops' fault at all!The question is not whether he should have been "kicked out" or "escorted out," but rather how the authority figures chose to conduct the escort.

The question is not whether he should have been "kicked out" or "escorted out," but rather how the authority figures chose to conduct the escort.
Then why has everyone been focusing on how Meyer was making political speech and thus I'm a Nazi who hates freedom of speech? Look at what your prick allies in this thread have been saying. To be honest, I'm this close to telling Drew to fuck off, and leaving this fucking forum. This debate is, to Drew and Frogger, more about some fucking ego trip than it is about debate.

Actually it's about freedom of speech, something Drew and I seem far more passionate about than you, Borghunter.

Meyer, a student at the university where the event was being held was at a live mike asking a question of Senator Kerry when cops grabbed him from behind. His apparant crime, asking an embarrassing question of the Senator. Kerry, to his credit was willing to answer the student's question. The Gestapo rent a cops working for the university obviously were not going to have any of it and grabbed Meyer from behind. There was no attempt to ask him to leave, just a grabbing by two cops and then a pile on by four more.

Maybe you think this is an ego thing and maybe you're right, your ego seems to be so strong that you can't admit you are wrong and that his freedom of speech rights were abrogated.

I may be crazy, but I only saw him get tazered once in the video...

Gee, DarkFantasy96, that makes all the difference. He was only tazered once so it is okay. How many unneeded tazerings would it take before you became upset with the actions of the cops?

His apparant crime, trespass and resisting arrest.
FTFY.
The Gestapo rent a cops working for the university obviously were not going to have any of it and grabbed Meyer from behind.
They were acting on orders of the people organizing the event. How many times have I said this now?
Maybe you think this is an ego thing and maybe you're right, your ego seems to be so strong that you can't admit you are wrong and that his freedom of speech rights were abrogated.
Nope. What the event organizers did (ask the cops to get rid of Meyer) was against the spirit of the event, yes. But they were well within their rights, even if they were douchebags. If you invited me into your house, I would have every right to say anything I pleased. And you would have every right to kick me out because of it.

Freedom of speech does not trump the freedom of property owners to restrict access to their property to certain people. Just because he was making political speech does not make him immune to trespass. This is what you can't admit, Frogger, and I honestly can't believe it.

So, the POLICE say... very credible source! These are the same people who just tore him up, huh? Gawd. The things some people choose to believe at face value is staggering.

So now the officers are liers too? Good lord. Why don't you just say it: You believe all cops are evil, until you have to call them for help.

The event was a question and answer event. You don't have cops act like bully boys simply because you don't like a question being asked.

The mike was open, Meyer was asking questions, Kerry was answering those questions, the cops did not ask Meyer to leave the mike, they came up behind him and grabbed him.

What about the course of events don't you understand?

The question is not whether he should have been "kicked out" or "escorted out," but rather how the authority figures chose to conduct the escort.

Correction: It's how the douchebag chose the escort.

The event was a question and answer event. You don't have cops act like bully boys simply because you don't like a question being asked.
I agree. Why are you blaming the cops?
The mike was open, Meyer was asking questions, Kerry was answering those questions, the cops did not ask Meyer to leave the mike, they came up behind him and grabbed him.
It is my understanding that he had been previously warned about his behavior during the event. I could be wrong on that account, but I believe I read it in one of the myriad of articles on this.

Gee, DarkFantasy96, that makes all the difference. He was only tazered once so it is okay. How many unneeded tazerings would it take before you became upset with the actions of the cops?

Nice. Distort the facts, and then criticize the person who corrects the facts for making an irrelevant correction.

So now the officers are liers too? Good lord. Why don't you just say it: "You believe all cops are evil, until you have to call them for help."
You oughta stop trying to put words in somebody else's mouth and focus a little more on discernment. I don't think all cops are evil. I think that some sure as hell are, though. Mostly, though, I'm saying that to take at face value the defensive comments of a potential perp (and in this case that is, in fact, the cops) is the height of stupidity.

And, just for the record, I have never once in my life called the cops for help, though I have on several occasions assisted them.

However, not the cops' fault at all!
I agree. It's standard operating procedure for all low-level, knuckle-dragging henchmen to taze (so-called) unruly college kids when they pose (oh, the horror...) A question the Sturmabteilung (er..."event organizers") didn't like.

They opened a forum under the guise of a Q&A, and then promptly shut it down when a question was posed they didn't like. Then he was rushed from behind, and consequently, he REACTED to being manhandled by pushing back. They took that opportunity to drop him like a bad habit, tazed him, and arrested him. If this seems right to ANYONE here, then I question their sense of justice and fair play.

Correction: It's how the douchebag chose the escort.It's stunning how powerless you guys must feel until you can break out a weapon on someone. Weak.

Aha! A breakthrough. You could be wrong.

Borg, it doesn't matter if the guy was a dick. Being a dick is not against the law. If it was half of Congress would be behind bars. I am not questioning the fact that the cops were going to escort him from the room. I am questioning the way they did it. They did not speak to him. Instead they came up behind him and grabbed him. They then proceeded to throw him to the ground and tazer him. Don't tell me six cops couldn't have easily simply dragged him out of the room. The tazering was a macho, you fuck with me and you get zapped, thing. The cop tazered him not because he was a danger to the cops but because he could do it. We don't need cops like that and the quicker they are weeded out of police forces the better for everyone.

You oughta stop trying to put words in somebody else's mouth and focus a little more on discernment.

Whether you think the police overreacted or not, there is no reason to disbelieve their quote of the suspect, which is what you implied by your response.

They then proceeded to throw him to the ground and tazer him. Don't tell me six cops couldn't have easily simply dragged him out of the room. The tazering was a macho, you fuck with me and you get zapped, thing. The cop tazered him not because he was a danger to the cops but because he could do it. We don't need cops like that and the quicker they are weeded out of police forces the better for everyone.
I am more inclined to trust Brooks's previous post in this thread than yours, seeing as how Brooks was a cop. He says that it doesn't matter how many officers there are, it's very hard to get handcuffs on a resisting person.

Another fine example:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs

I am more inclined to trust Brooks's previous post in this thread than yours, seeing as how Brooks was a cop. He says that it doesn't matter how many officers there are, it's very hard to get handcuffs on a resisting person.How did they ever arrest someone before the Taser, I wonder?

We don't need cops like that and the quicker they are weeded out of police forces the better for everyone.

Please, if we cracked down on police like you suggest, cops would be afraid to drive to the scene of a crime without being fired, sued, or beat up by a suspect.

Yet another fine example:http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=96715

How did they ever arrest someone before the Taser, I wonder?
Mace or batons. Mace isn't an option in a big crowd like that, and batons leave lasting damage, which is why tasers have become more popular.

Borg, are you honestly contending that six cops can't get a skinny assed runt out of a room without tazering him? Are you suggesting that the cops were in danger of imminent severe injury so they had to cattle prod the kid?

This is such a blatant example of police overreaction that I can't understand how anyone cannot see it. When people post comments like they only tazered him once as some sort of justification I have to shake my head in disbelief.

Borg, are you honestly contending that six cops can't get a skinny assed runt out of a room without tazering him? Are you suggesting that the cops were in danger of imminent severe injury so they had to cattle prod the kid?

This is such a blatant example of police overreaction that I can't understand how anyone cannot see it. When people post comments like they only tazered him once as some sort of justification I have to shake my head in disbelief.
He was warned at least three times to calm down and put his hands behind his back, or they'd use the taser. I'd say he had fair warning there.

Whether you think the police overreacted or not, there is no reason to disbelieve their quote of the suspect, which is what you implied by your response.These cats knew immediately that they would be scrutinized, Leper! They could damn well be circling the wagons, and if you can't see that as a possibility you have just lost any shred of respect I'd ever had of your judgement in these matters. And I had had some.

Mace or batons. Mace isn't an option in a big crowd like that, and batons leave lasting damage, which is why tasers have become more popular.Six cops can't handle one kid without a weapon of some sort?

Borg, are you honestly contending that six cops can't get a skinny assed runt out of a room without tazering him?

He's a "skinny-assed runt" now? He's bigger and younger than the first two cops who confronted him.

If you're so "blatantly" right, why are you exaggerating the facts?

Six cops can't handle one kid without a weapon of some sort?
Again, I'm not a cop, and I've never tried to handcuff a struggling person before. Neither have you, I suspect. I'm going to trust Brooks on this one, mainly because I don't rightly know the answer to that question. I lack the experience.

He wasn't skinny assed, Leper? He wasn't outweighed by a factor of at least four to one? He wasn't surrounded by six cops who are supposed to be trained in how to conduct themselves in such situations? He wasn't on the ground when they tazered him?

Maybe we have been looking at different videos.

These cats knew immediately that they would be scrutinized, Leper! They could damn well be circling the wagons, and if you can't see that as a possibility you have just lost any shred of respect.

A possibility, but a slim one. The cops will have to have 8 people with coordinated stories....not an easy task.

This is such a blatant example of police overreaction that I can't understand how anyone cannot see it. When people post comments like they only tazered him once as some sort of justification I have to shake my head in disbelief.
That was not a justification. It was simply a tentative correction. Many people in this thread have said that he was tazered multiple times. I only noticed ONE time in the video. I might be wrong, I was just putting in my opinion.

What's more dangerous? Trying to wrestle someone's hands behind their backs, or tazing them into submission? I would surmise that it's the former.

I'm sure if they broke the douchebag's wrist trying to force his hands behind his back, y'all would be crying police brutality all over again.

And if an officer broke his/her wrist trying to restrain the douchebag, I'm sure we wouldn't have heard anything about the story. Not that there would have been any kind of outrage if we did.

What's more dangerous? Trying to wrestle someone's hands behind their backs, or tazing them into submission? I would surmise that it's the former.

I'm sure if they broke the douchebag's wrist trying to force his hands behind his back, y'all would be crying police brutality all over again.

And if an officer broke his/her wrist trying to restrain the douchebag, I'm sure we wouldn't have heard anything about the story. Not that there would have been any kind of outrage if we did.
Completely agreed, Leper.

Whatever initially attracted the cop's attention was mute once Sentator Kerry said he would continue to answer questions. The guy stood in line for a long time and didn't want to not have an opportunity to ask his question. Senator Kerry agreed with him. The cops bum rushed him. Look at the video. They didn't politely ask him to leave. The came up behind him and grabbed him.

I don't know about the country some posters live in but I live in a country where we are still allowed to question our politicians without having to worry about being tazered by overzealous and underqualified cops. Maybe Borg lives in a country where not being polite enough is sufficient cause for being tazered but happily, I don't.

Just like the cops in Noble, these people were unqualified to wear a police uniform. They should be disciplined and the cop who used the tazer should be removed from the force.
If someone starts running forward during a Q&A period (while everyone else is waiting patiently in line) at a high profile forum featuring a man who was almost elected president a few years back.... you don't think this was just a wee bit suspicious? I'm actually surprised a officer didn't tackle his ass on the way to the mic. If I was one of the guys he broke in front of, I may have tackled him myself.

But that is some of what is wrong with our country now. The asshole is a hero, the people that waited to ask a question (properly in-line) were thwarted, and a couple of campus police are crucified.(I will agree that they were over zealous and used excessive force... but they caused no permanent harm to the dumbass). Who is the instigator and problem here... right, it's the police. Give me a break!

If some asshole is pitching a screaming cussing fit, breaks in front of me and my kids at Walmart, who's the bad guy when I clock his ass? You got it... me. I'm infringing on his "right" to be an ass. I'll probably go to jail, and if I'm lucky he will sue me for a cool million. The rights of the one are greater than the rights of the many (including the students who were at that forum to actually learn/understand something in an orderly environment). This dickweed planned this out... wanted the attention... and played the scene to the hilt (either that or he is an extreme wussy).

This is NOT the same as the policeman who tried to shoot a rat snake in Oklahoma... a child was killed by his mistake. Maybe we should summarily execute the officers involved, God knows none of us have EVER over-reacted a bit to ANY situation. We are all are perfect, and this young man was not only a hero.... but a saint.

The police report, if anyone is interested: http://www.bradblog.com/Docs/AndrewMeyer_Arrest_UniversityOfFloridaPoliceReport _JohnKerry_091707.pdf

From the Police report

..before Senator Kerry could attempt to answer his first question/statement, Meyer advised there were two more questions. I leaned over to Ofc. Mallo and we made the decision that Meyer would be escorted out of the auditorium after his statements/questions due to his overall demeanor and actions.

So in fact - the course of action had already been decided before he had even finished his questions. So now - if you don't conform to their view of how questions should be asked or have the correct demeanor then a tasering party will follow. It's pure bullshit - that's what it is. Since when do dumb cops get to be the judge of how people ask questions at a polictal discussion.

From the Police report



So in fact - the course of action had already been decided before he had even finished his questions. So now - if you don't conform to their view of how questions should be asked or have the correct demeanor then a tasering party will follow. It's pure bullshit - that's what it is. Since when do dumb cops get to be the judge of how people ask questions at a polictal discussion.

He wasn't tasered for what he said, he was tasered for resisting. That much is obvious. The cops tried to escort him away, and he chose to resist. I wonder why?

From the Police report



So in fact - the course of action had already been decided before he had even finished his questions. So now - if you don't conform to their view of how questions should be asked or have the correct demeanor then a tasering party will follow. It's pure bullshit - that's what it is. Since when do dumb cops get to be the judge of how people ask questions at a polictal discussion.
Considering the first question was asked AFTER he ran ahead of others to secure the microphone, and that he was far from "calm" during his questions/rant (check the video). I doubt it was because his questions (that he didn't wait for an answer to... BTW) and more his actions, wording, and demeanor... that made for this decision.

Considering the first question was asked AFTER he ran ahead of others to secure the microphone, and that he was far from "calm" during his questions/rant (check the video). I doubt it was because his questions (that he didn't wait for an answer to... BTW) and more his actions, wording, and demeanor... that made for this decision.

There is only one thing that possibly would have merited being dragged off by the Gestapo - is if he was a threat to people in the room. He was a threat to nobody. Saying he didn't wait for an answer, or his demeanor were not acceptable is not a valid reason to set the attack dogs on him. By the cops own written admission - they had decided to set upon him well before he even finished his questions.

I think it's eminently clear that the ultimate root of the problem was the guy being a douchebag.

There was no "problem" until the police attacked that kid.

The kid was merely asking three questions of a public official at an event specifically designed for that purpose. He was loud and emotional, but he was not disruptive or rude in asking the questions.

Being loud and emotional when speaking in public is no reasons to physically assault and tazer someone.


Had he been polite and sane the police would never have been interested in him.

He was perfectly sane. The insanity here is that he was physically assaulted, tortured into silence with a tazer and then escorted from the building for nothing more than asking unpopular questions, and that so many people are actually defending this immoral abuse of power. That is insanity.

He was polite. He was saying "please" and "thank you".
All he did was be loud and assertive in asking unpopular questions, to right wingers in a conservative state, that was enough to warrent assault and torture.

Notice when they turned off his mic.

Right after he asked Kerry, "Why won't you support impeaching Bush?"

That was when the kid got physically assaulted and tortured into silence with a tazer.

Think about that.

Six cops had pulled the kid to the back of the room, cuffed him and were sitting on him. They tazered him for one reason and one reason only, to silence him because he kept yelling "What did I do?". You can hear them in the tape made by his companion telling him that they will stop tazing him "when you shut up."

And I see so many fucking idiots running around defending a disgusting, blatant, public assault on the free speech rights of a student for asking unpopular questions.

Bullshit.

Absolute, complete Bullshit.

This pisses me off SOOO much...

It was political speech for Christ sake - it's supposed to be heated. That's what politics is all about - you know debate, freedom, democracy.


Well said. This case has me thinking of the quote I use at the top of my blog. I think it is at the heart of this issue.


"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776

This kid was doing nothing more than asking questions of a public official, bringing up subjects that are unpopular to conservatives.

For that he was physically assaulted, tortured into silence with a tazer.

Sniveling cowards see this and say, as one of my coworkers earlier tonight did, "The kid was a dumbass. When someone in authority tells you to do something, you should just do it. If they don't want you to talk, you shouldn't get to talk."

This is disgusting. I think it says a lot about his pacified we have become as a society that someone can get beat down for nothing more than speaking up and American citizens rush to defend it rather than risk disturbing the tranquility of their servitude.

:mad:

"The kid was a dumbass. When someone in authority tells you to do something, you should just do it. If they don't want you to talk, you shouldn't get to talk." Yeah, when I hear this sort of thing it reminds me of Pol Pot's rules.

There was no "problem" until the police attacked that kid.

The kid was merely asking three questions of a public official at an event specifically designed for that purpose. He was loud and emotional, but he was not disruptive or rude in asking the questions.

Being loud and emotional when speaking in public is no reasons to physically assault and tazer someone.



He was perfectly sane. The insanity here is that he was physically assaulted, tortured into silence with a tazer and then escorted from the building for nothing more than asking unpopular questions, and that so many people are actually defending this immoral abuse of power. That is insanity.

He was polite. He was saying "please" and "thank you".
All he did was be loud and assertive in asking unpopular questions, to right wingers in a conservative state, that was enough to warrent assault and torture.

Notice when they turned off his mic.

Right after he asked Kerry, "Why won't you support impeaching Bush?"

That was when the kid got physically assaulted and tortured into silence with a tazer.

Think about that.

Six cops had pulled the kid to the back of the room, cuffed him and were sitting on him. They tazered him for one reason and one reason only, to silence him because he kept yelling "What did I do?". You can hear them in the tape made by his companion telling him that they will stop tazing him "when you shut up."

And I see so many fucking idiots running around defending a disgusting, blatant, public assault on the free speech rights of a student for asking unpopular questions.

Bullshit.

Absolute, complete Bullshit.

This pisses me off SOOO much...

I agree with you 1000% - Good post.

It was wrong of those cops to attack that kid, they didn't have a single good reason to drag him off and the fact that people seem to think that being loud merits the Gestapo treatment he got truly makes me want to vomit.

I'd like to see how Borg would act if 6 cops attacked him for no good reason - I'm sure he might well shout out "I haven't done anything" and he wouldn't agree that he should just take it up the ass because once the guys in authority start to rape his civil liberties then he should simply comply.

It was wrong of those cops to attack that kid, they didn't have a single good reason to drag him off and the fact that people seem to think that being loud merits the Gestapo treatment he got truly makes me want to vomit.


It's amazing that anyone with an ounce of intelligence can say this guy was tazered for saying something wrong. He was tazered for resisting. I suppose it does make a more inflammatory argument to suggest he was silenced by the "gestapo", but it's a diseingenuous argument at best.

There was no "problem" until the police attacked that kid.

You obviously watched a different video than I did, or you're deliberately ignoring the fact that this kid fought with the cops to make your argument look better.


Being loud and emotional when speaking in public is no reasons to physically assault and tazer someone.

True, but that's not why he was tazered.


He was perfectly sane. The insanity here is that he was physically assaulted, tortured into silence with a tazer and then escorted from the building for nothing more than asking unpopular questions, and that so many people are actually defending this immoral abuse of power. That is insanity.

Now he was "tortured into silence"...good one. :rolleyes:


He was polite.

Not that it's terribl;y relevant, but he was not polite.


He was saying "please" and "thank you".
All he did was be loud and assertive in asking unpopular questions, to right wingers in a conservative state, that was enough to warrent assault and torture.

No doubt all the cops were right wingers too, right dharma?


That was when the kid got physically assaulted and tortured into silence with a tazer.

Think about that.

I did. I think it's a cheap attempt to make a point by using deliberately incendiary language that grossly exaggerates the situation.


Bullshit.

Absolute, complete Bullshit.

An excellent description of your version of events.


This pisses me off SOOO much...

Then you should wait until your a little calmer, you might start making some sense.

It's amazing that anyone with an ounce of intelligence can say this guy was tazered for saying something wrong. He was tazered for resisting. I suppose it does make a more inflammatory argument to suggest he was silenced by the "gestapo", but it's a diseingenuous argument at best.

Come on - who is being diseingenous here?

The kid was ULTIMATELY tasered because he said something "wrong" - yes he was resisting but only because he was dargged off by 6 cops. And regardless - the kid had his hands in the air, said he'd go peacefully and asked not to be tasered. They tasered him because he wouldn't shut up.

You can't separate the two issues - that's like saying a person goes to jail because they lost their trial instead of saying they went to jail because they committed a crime.

That's surprising... figured you guys would be hashing it out over the girl who got tasered multiple times while in handcuffs the other day? She sure looked like a dangerous criminal to me.

:rolleyes:
SMW

It seems some posters, Borghunter, Vilepagan, Oldphart can simply ignore what started the confrontation. The guy was asking a question at an open mike at a political forum and two of the cops came up behind him and grabbed him. He had not made any threatening motions. He had not threatened Senator Kerry or anyone else verbally. He simply asked a series of questions and was standing at the mike waiting for the answers. When grabbed from behind for no reason he reacted as just about anyone would react. He asked what he had done. He was never given a reason for being grabbed by the cops. They simply tried to bum rush him out of there. He held his hands in the air to show he was not fighting them and four more cops came after him. They wrestled him to the ground and tazered him. They said they did it because he was resisting arrest. Just what were they arresting him for? Was he being arrested for asking an embarrassing question? Was he being arrested for being anti-Bush? Was he being arrested because the cops were pissed at him or because they decided to go all Dirty Harry and machismo all of a sudden? They grabbed him for no reason.

This was caused by the cops and when it didn't go the way they liked it they tazered Meyer even after he asked them to not tazer him and said he would walk out of the building.

This is a clear cut case of police abuse of powers and it is stunning that some posters are so enthralled by the police they will excuse such actions. I like cops. I think they are necessary and that most of them do a good job but when some of them step over the boundaries and begin oppressing citizens it is time to either get rid of them or retrain them.

I'll repeat myself here...

If someone starts running forward during a Q&A period (while everyone else is waiting patiently in line) at a high profile forum featuring a man who was almost elected president a few years back.... you don't think this was just a wee bit suspicious? I'm actually surprised a officer didn't tackle his ass on the way to the mic. If I was one of the guys he broke in front of, I may have tackled him myself.

So he was in his rights to rush forward, ahead of the other students, so that he could ask his more important questions? He was so pure of heart and mind... that's why he wanted a girl to video this (with his camera) before he started his rant?

The young people, waiting properly, that he broke in front of were the ones who's rights were violated. I know... they don't count... Just the flaming dumbass that acted like a prick.

Gotcha.

Attitude is everything when being approached by a police officer. They don't owe you ANY explanation until after you're in custody.

Looks like this lady had to learn that the hard way, too.

http://thatvideosite.com/video/479

:drive:

Your right Frogger - Kerry was pleading to the 'cops' to let him answer his question - and they would not even allow it. Let's see, this is Florida right, is Jebbie Bush still governor there? :lolhit: And I'll say it anyway - It was clearly his questions that irritated the ones in command - they were probably debriefed beforehand on what questions to allow since they knew Kerry would be speaking. And tazing him when he was not threatening anyone????!!! Come on people. And Kerry has since stated that he was stunned regarding the event and has never seen anything like it.


I couldn't really even read your post because that picture is just too dayum appealing.

Please, if we cracked down on police like you suggest, cops would be afraid to drive to the scene of a crime without being fired, sued, or beat up by a suspect.
Beat up by the suspect? Please, Leper. Half of 'em are pissed off that reasonable legislators outlawed the chokehold. If it takes 6 cops to subdue a sober college kid with a tazer, then it's no wonder that rank and file cop are growing in a disproportionate ratio to the populace.

In regards to what you said, good. It might force them to act with a modicum of humility and (lo and behold) like a CIVIL SERVANT.

Attitude is everything when being approached by a police officer. They don't owe you ANY explanation until after you're in custody.
Nice.

I agree with Vile: he was tasered because he was disruptive. Not because of what he was saying. It's not a question of free speech. The cops have a duty to preserve order. What if the loud-mouth kid turned out to be a diversion for another person in the crowd to pull out a gun and open fire?

As it turned out, the cops over-reacted. The proper method to address such abuses of power: a good old-fashioned lawsuit. Which I'm sure is what will happen.

The young people, waiting properly, that he broke in front of were the ones who's rights were violated. Good point.

1. Not that we didn't know this already, but that sentence should also have been the pretext for your criticism of the police in the video.

2. You're kidding, right? The guy had already shown that he will not listen to lawful orders. Myself, LiquidFork and those campus police would easily recognize the fact that that particular strategy would be useless.
Similarly, some people could recognize that the kid in the video was escalating before the police even approached him. His overly dhramatic reaction wasn't solely driven by the fact that the police intervened.

By the way, your answer to this question would have caused the situation to continue to escalate.
Until you're pressed to think about it, you have no idea how much you don't know.
Unlike my situation and those campus police, you can now walk away from the computer and forget about it.

Ha, ha - I KNEW you would hit me with the fact I am not trained as a cop , so I cannot question the actions of these campus cops. Well guess what, I sure can question their actions and so can anyone else on this board that wants to.

And so my answer to your situation was wrong? Boo-hoo I, at least ANSWERED the question. Hopefully, you, as a trained cop handled it the right way.

Originally Posted by smartmouthwoman
Attitude is everything when being approached by a police officer. They don't owe you ANY explanation until after you're in custody.

Nice.

So you disagree with that statement, Prae? Say you're stopped while driving because your car matches the description of a vehicle that just robbed a liquor store at gunpoint. The cop tells you to get out of the car and you decide to sit there and have a debate about why he stopped you in the first place? Do you think he should just stand there next to your car and explain why you're being stopped? You may know you did nothing wrong, but he sure doesn't.

Citizens who get all irate cause alot of problems for the police. I can't believe people think they can just go off like a cannon and get away with it... especially when they're talking to a cop. IMO, when you do that, you're just asking for trouble.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T the uniform and chances are, they will respect you, too.

Spit in their face (literally or figuratively) and you're probably gonna get hurt... one way or another.

:eek:
SMW

From the Police report



So in fact - the course of action had already been decided before he had even finished his questions. So now - if you don't conform to their view of how questions should be asked or have the correct demeanor then a tasering party will follow. It's pure bullshit - that's what it is. Since when do dumb cops get to be the judge of how people ask questions at a polictal discussion.


Very good link Drew - cops evidently made the decision long beforehand.

I couldn't really even read your post because that picture is just too dayum appealing.



:thumbs: I know, ain't Purcell the bomb? (and pardon moi Frogger, we're not jackin' with your excellent thread)

Say you're stopped while driving because your car matches the description of a vehicle that just robbed a liquor store at gunpoint.
Doesn't matter. I'm not gonna be treated like a fuckin' criminal if I'm not one. I won't bend over for anyone, and certainly not for a criminal justice major with an IQ only slightly north of your average simian. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on. Let 'em beat me down. In the end, I'll still be the one with a BMW, a real job, and now that you mention it, a wicked lawsuit to boot. It's not like I'm gonna get out of my car swinging. If they can't answer my questions, then they don't deserve my time. THEY'RE PUBLIC SERVANTS - nothing more, nothing less. They're on MY payroll.

I agree with Vile: he was tasered because he was disruptive. Not because of what he was saying. It's not a question of free speech. The cops have a duty to preserve order. What if the loud-mouth kid turned out to be a diversion for another person in the crowd to pull out a gun and open fire?
As it turned out, the cops over-reacted. The proper method to address such abuses of power: a good old-fashioned lawsuit. Which I'm sure is what will happen.

He was tazed because he was disruptive.So now asking a question of a Senator at a public question and answer program is now considered disruptive. Asking a question the police might not have liked being asked is disruptive. Asking a question the speaker might find a bit uncomfortable is disruptive. What I saw was a student of the university where the event was being held asking a question. The link Drew gave proves the police had decided to manhandle the kid beforehand.

Please explain what disruptive behavior was exibited that warranted cops coming up behind him and grabbing him while he was listening to Senator Kerry answer his question.

What if the loud mouth had turned out to be a diversion for another person in the crowd to pull out a gun and open fire?

Are you suggesting that any time someone is overly enthusiastic they be brought down by the cops because they might be some sort of diversion for a gunman? I can see it now...........young people in a mall acting like young people in a mall so often act, calling out to each other, fooling around with each other. Gasp! They might be a diversion for another person in the crowd to pull out a gun and open fire. Quick, have the mall rent a cops tackle them.

In this country we don't presume someone might just perhaps, just possibly be a diversion for a crime there is no evidence will be committed. We don't gang tackle someone because they weren't decorous enough for our taste.

The cops were bozos and should either be retrained or removed from the force. The kid should sue both the cops and the university. The only person who seems to have come out of this with some dignity was Senator Kerry.

Doesn't matter. I'm not gonna be treated like a fuckin' criminal if I'm not one. I won't bend over for anyone, and certainly not for a criminal justice major with an IQ only slightly north of your average simian. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on. Let 'em beat me down. In the end, I'll still be the one with a BMW, a real job, and now that you mention it, a wicked lawsuit to boot. It's not like I'm gonna get out of my car swinging. If they can't answer my questions, then they don't deserve my time. THEY'RE PUBLIC SERVANTS - nothing more, nothing less. They're on MY payroll.

Interesting philosophy, Prae. Think I'll just leave you boys alone here. You're all behaving like mad dogs fighting over a bone. I expect bloodshed any minute.

Um, should I call 911?

:eek:
SMW

Um, should I call 911?
Don't bother.

They won't do anything. ;)

The kid should sue both the cops and the university.
Bingo. I'm not sue happy, but I certainly would. His "crime" was cutting in line, and despite Kerry acquiescing, they still tazed his ass. IMO, the university doesn't have a leg to stand on. The cops, OTOH, well, they probably have somewhat of a case, albeit a weak one at that. The university invited him via an OPEN Q&A session with Kerry, and then took him down for cutting in line. The "resisting arrest" charge was bullshit. He should've never been placed UNDER arrest.
The only person who seems to have come out of this with some dignity was Senator Kerry.
I fully agree.

Don't bother.

They won't do anything. ;)

That's what the kid who got tasered thought, too.

Bless his ignorant little heart.

:thumbs:

It seems some posters, Borghunter, Vilepagan, Oldphart can simply ignore what started the confrontation. The guy was asking a question at an open mike at a political forum and two of the cops came up behind him and grabbed him. He had not made any threatening motions. He had not threatened Senator Kerry or anyone else verbally. He simply asked a series of questions and was standing at the mike waiting for the answers. When grabbed from behind for no reason he reacted as just about anyone would react. He asked what he had done. He was never given a reason for being grabbed by the cops. They simply tried to bum rush him out of there. He held his hands in the air to show he was not fighting them and four more cops came after him. They wrestled him to the ground and tazered him. They said they did it because he was resisting arrest. Just what were they arresting him for? Was he being arrested for asking an embarrassing question? Was he being arrested for being anti-Bush? Was he being arrested because the cops were pissed at him or because they decided to go all Dirty Harry and machismo all of a sudden? They grabbed him for no reason.

This was caused by the cops and when it didn't go the way they liked it they tazered Meyer even after he asked them to not tazer him and said he would walk out of the building.

This is a clear cut case of police abuse of powers and it is stunning that some posters are so enthralled by the police they will excuse such actions. I like cops. I think they are necessary and that most of them do a good job but when some of them step over the boundaries and begin oppressing citizens it is time to either get rid of them or retrain them.

How mistaken you are.
Almost totally.
A person from the sudience was on Hannity and explained how this
guy was bothersome.Many of the other students felt he was overly
loud and rambling.He also was acting -up before he even got to ask
his longwinded question,which was more a filibuster than a question.
The guy does this sorta thing and brags about it on his web page.
He is a professional instigator.Like a heckler only wanting,to be taken
seriously,to better his cause.
He has an agenda and plotted out his erratic behavior and LOUD
disruption,to make a Political point.

Yeah, I guess we should all be good little drones like you, bend over, and respect their auth-or-o-tie.

What's your dignity worth, SMW?

Yeah, I guess we should all be good little drones like you, bend over, and respect their auth-or-o-tie.

What's your dignity worth, SMW?

Has nothing to do with MY dignity, Prae. I just happen to respect people in law enforcement. I think they have a very tough job to do, dealing with the dredges of society, day in and day out. Doing that sometimes results in them having bad attitudes and then using bad judgment when dealing with the public. When that occurs, an investigation and remedial action is usually always performed to make sure they didn't overstep their boundries. And if they did, they are usually warned, disciplined, or fired.

Cops are just like everybody else. They screw up sometimes. But (here's that word again) the MAJORITY of cops are decent, hard-working people who are dedicated to keeping us safe... not going around looking for a chance to get a thrill by tasing an innocent person.

Don't fight with 'em, and you don't have anything to worry about.

Guess you could say I'm just a peaceable-loving person. Can't even imagine putting myself in a position to be tased.

I respect your position, SMW, but I simply cannot agree here:
But (here's that word again) the MAJORITY of cops are decent, hard-working people who are dedicated to keeping us safe....
In my experience, the MAJORITY of them are lazy, power-hungry, wopps who work their cushy government job to the lowest common denominator of professionalism, and if not to add insult to injury, they're given WAAAAY too much authority and credibility. I've had then fabricate reports, lie to judges, and physically manhandle (IOW, assault) me when the cameras are turned. I think they're the scum of the earth. Have I ever met a good one? Yeah, but they're rare. And amazingly enough, they're never of Irish or Italian descent. Go figure.

We're not talking about the majority of cops, SMW. We are talking about these particular six campus rent a cops. The six sucked and should be made to pay the consequences for their actions.

A person from the sudience was on Hannity and explained how this
guy was bothersome.Many of the other students felt he was overly
loud and rambling.Wow, so FoxNews found someone with a story to back up the cops?! And against a kid who was critcal of Bush, too? What a suprise!

We're not talking about the majority of cops, SMW. We are talking about these particular six campus rent a cops. The six sucked and should be made to pay the consequences for their actions.

I think all six should be sentenced to death, then drug behind a semi from Florida to Oregon, and finally burned and their ashes flushed down Charles Manson's toilet.

Let's get something nice and sparkling clear here; that kid was a tool, period. The university, and by direct association, the cops, were at fault for HANDLING the situation like they did. I don't care how "annoying" this kid was. So he cut in line and asked a series of stupid questions......he was a liberal – what do you expect? Did that make it right to taze him a few minutes into it?

He was tazed because he was disruptive.So now asking a question of a Senator at a public question and answer program is now considered disruptive. Asking a question the police might not have liked being asked is disruptive. Asking a question the speaker might find a bit uncomfortable is disruptive.

None of the above.

Was he tazed while asking a question? No.

Was he tazed immediately after asking a question? No.

He was tazed after he resisted the officers who were attempting to escort him out of the hall.


What I saw was a student of the university where the event was being held asking a question. The link Drew gave proves the police had decided to manhandle the kid beforehand.

You must have read a different report. The one Drew quoted said:

"I leaned over to Ofc. Mallo and we made the decision that Meyer would be escorted out of the auditorium after his statements/questions due to his overall demeanor and actions."

Where does it say "manhandle"?


Please explain what disruptive behavior was exibited that warranted cops coming up behind him and grabbing him while he was listening to Senator Kerry answer his question.

Please explain why you keep saying that the cops approached him "from behind" when they clearly did not, and please explain why this matters?


In this country we don't presume someone might just perhaps, just possibly be a diversion for a crime there is no evidence will be committed.

Perhaps not, but if you were a policeman confronting anyone who is even mildly disruptive, wouldn't it occur to you that the person might be armed?


We don't gang tackle someone because they weren't decorous enough for our taste.

No we don't, and neither did the cops in this case, so what's your point?


The cops were bozos and should either be retrained or removed from the force.

If the cops violated any laws or police procedures they should be punished. They should not be punished because a bunch of armchair quarterbacks were outraged by a two-minute video on YouTube.


The kid should sue both the cops and the university.

Somehow, I don't think that'll happen in this case. The source of the video is somewhat in question.

I think all six should be sentenced to death, then drug behind a semi from Florida to Oregon, and finally burned and their ashes flushed down Charles Manson's toilet.
Whoa there, OP - the toilet-flushing thing is a bit extreme, don't you think?

He wasn't tasered for what he said, he was tasered for resisting.

Actually, upon watching another, longer version of the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE76LQwT6qA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fthesarcasticcynic%2Eblogspot%2Ec om%2F2007%2F09%2Fshock%2Ddoctrine%2Dat%2Duniversit y%2Dof%2Dflorida%2Ehtml)I discovered the most disturbing thing about this.

He was not tasered for resisting.

Six cops had him pinned down in the back of the room. He was completely helpless and they tasered only him because he continued yelling "What did I do?"

They used the taser to torture him into silence.

You can hear the cops saying "are you gonna be quiet?" and "are you gonna calm down?" while he is screaming in pain.

A taser is no joke. People have died from having a taser used on them. A taser is supposed to be a non-lethal way to stop someone who poses a physical threat. Tasers were NEVER intended to be used to torture citizens into silence for speaking too loudly at a public forum.

It doesn't matter how loud or rambling that kid was, it is his inalienable right to speak and ask questions of a public official at a public forum.

.

The Shock Doctrine at the University of Florida (http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_kpominvi_070921_the_shock_doctrine_a.htm)

.

Actually, upon watching another, longer version of the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE76LQwT6qA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fthesarcasticcynic%2Eblogspot%2Ec om%2F2007%2F09%2Fshock%2Ddoctrine%2Dat%2Duniversit y%2Dof%2Dflorida%2Ehtml)I discovered the most disturbing thing about this.

He was not tasered for resisting.

Six cops had him pinned down in the back of the room. He was completely helpless and they tasered only him because he continued yelling "What did I do?"

They used the taser to torture him into silence.

You can hear the cops saying "are you gonna be quiet?" and "are you gonna calm down?" while he is screaming in pain.

Thanks for the link.

Oddly, I heard the cops saying "Put your hands behind your back", "roll over on your stomach", "Do it now!"

The "citizen" was saying "get the f#%k off me!"


A taser is no joke. People have died from having a taser used on them. A taser is supposed to be a non-lethal way to stop someone who poses a physical threat.

The type of taser you're talking about is the kind that shoots two darts connected by wires into a person up to 30 feet away. It delivers a bigger jolt, and is intended to incapacitate. The type used here just produces pain without any lasting physical harm.


Tasers were NEVER intended to be used to torture citizens into silence for speaking too loudly at a public forum.

No they sure weren't, but it was mighty nice of you to imply the cops tortured someone. You must have a lower opinion of the policemen's IQ than Prae has to believe that they'd torture someone in a room full of college students carrying video cameras.


It doesn't matter how loud or rambling that kid was, it is his inalienable right to speak and ask questions of a public official at a public forum.

.

An opinion not shared by the Supreme Court.

Perjhaps not, but if you were a policeman confronting anyone who is even mildly disruptive, wouldn't it occur to you that the person might be armed?My experience with these sorts of events has been that they all have you pass through a metal detector on the way in. Don't know specifically here, though.

The type used here just produces pain without any lasting physical harm.

Yes, I know.

There is a word for that... Torture.



No they sure weren't, but it was mighty nice of you to imply the cops tortured someone.

I am not "implying" anything.
I am telling you, they tortured him into silence with a taser.

There were six cops on him. There was no justification for using a taser to torture him until he was "compliant".



An opinion not shared by the Supreme Court.

Sorry, I don't buy it.

:thumbs:
DB

I am telling you, they tortured him into silence with a taser.

There were six cops on him. There was no justification for using a taser to torture him until he was "compliant".

I don't agree with the use of the word "torture" here, any more than I would if he had been pepper-sprayed into submission. The cops were trying to get him to stop resisting so they could cuff him and remove him from the venue quickly. What I find rather odd, is that the cops here are being villified for doing their jobs efficiently, without injuring anyone. I will grant that it's not a pleasant scene to watch, but if the cops overreacted, it wasn't a gross violation.


Sorry, I don't buy it.

You don't need to, it's free. :thumbs:

One brave cop? (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/21/ohio.taser/index.html)


An Ohio police officer has been put on paid administrative leave after his own police cruiser's dash camera captured him using a stun gun to subdue a handcuffed woman, an attorney for the city of Warren, Ohio, told CNN on Thursday. ...

... Kovach used the Taser for the seventh and final time while trying to transport Gill from one police cruiser to another.
In the video, the officer can be heard saying, "You're going to walk to that car or you're going to be Tasered again."
The video shows Gill falling down, then knocking her head on the pavement, where she lies unconscious.


To serve & protect?

:upyours:

I respect your position, SMW, but I simply cannot agree here:

In my experience, the MAJORITY of them are lazy, power-hungry, wopps who work their cushy government job to the lowest common denominator of professionalism, and if not to add insult to injury, they're given WAAAAY too much authority and credibility. I've had then fabricate reports, lie to judges, and physically manhandle (IOW, assault) me when the cameras are turned. I think they're the scum of the earth. Have I ever met a good one? Yeah, but they're rare. And amazingly enough, they're never of Irish or Italian descent. Go figure.

I guess we've traveled different paths, Prae. I won't be so bold as to ask how you ended up in that position, but I can tell you nothing like that has ever happened to me. Then again, I'm a RULE FOLLOWER. Always have been. If it sez Don't Walk, I Don't Walk. (Yeah, have to admit I was usually the only person still standing on the corner when the lights changed in NYC... damn hick.) That doesn't mean I've never broken the law, but I've always tried to be careful enough not to get caught... and never have been.

Easy to understand why we have different views on this subject.

I thought about this discussion during my ride home from work on the commuter train. Dallas uses an 'honor system' for train riders. You buy a ticket at the station (or a pass) and keep in on you... just in case a transit officer boards and asks for them. Happens maybe 2-3 times a week on my train. If you get caught without a ticket, the fine is $75. Needless to say, there are lots of 'characters' who ride public transportation. Most times, cars are filled with passengers, but no one in authority. HS kids get on in groups and raise hell occasionally. People usually ignore them. Weirdos get on sometimes and do strange things... sing, talk to their self, stuff like that. Everybody ignores them. There's a panic button that allows you to talk to the driver. I've only seen somebody use it once when the doors wouldn't open. In the 8 years I've ridden, off & on, never once have I felt threatened.... but sometimes I've felt uncomfortable. What if that guy goes nuts? What would happen?

Then at one of the stations downtown, an off-duty cop, in uniform, got on for his commute home. Immediately, it dawned on me how much better it felt to have him onboard.

That's what they're there for. To protect a trainload of innocent people so we don't have to put up with anybody's shit. That's what they were there for when the incident that started this topic happened. Not saying they didn't overreact... don't know about that. But if the young man would've followed the rules, none of it would have happened.

I did get one chuckle out of something you said.

"Cushy government job"

I KNOW cushy government job, darlin... and being a cop ain't even close.

;)
SMW

One brave cop? (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/21/ohio.taser/index.html)


An Ohio police officer has been put on paid administrative leave after his own police cruiser's dash camera captured him using a stun gun to subdue a handcuffed woman, an attorney for the city of Warren, Ohio, told CNN on Thursday. ...

... Kovach used the Taser for the seventh and final time while trying to transport Gill from one police cruiser to another.
In the video, the officer can be heard saying, "You're going to walk to that car or you're going to be Tasered again."
The video shows Gill falling down, then knocking her head on the pavement, where she lies unconscious.


To serve & protect?

:upyours:

I saw that story on the news this morning and was surprised it wasn't already being discussed here. He was a maniac and should lose his job.

SMW

Now here's an actual misuse of a taser. Douchebag + dumbass.

I don't agree with the use of the word "torture" here, any more than I would if he had been pepper-sprayed into submission. The cops were trying to get him to stop resisting so they could cuff him and remove him from the venue quickly. What I find rather odd, is that the cops here are being villified for doing their jobs efficiently, without injuring anyone. I will grant that it's not a pleasant scene to watch, but if the cops overreacted, it wasn't a gross violation.



You don't need to, it's free. :thumbs:

Finally I agree with an assessment of Yourn.
The kid was a set-up.He concocted a plan to make himself
front & center,along with a Political view.There's nothing wrong
or troublesome with that,UNTIL becoming a menacing intrusion
on the event and a dispuptive force for all involved.
There has to be security measures in place,for someone,Unwilling to
be escorted away from an event while throwing a temper tantrum.
What if groups of people decided to do what he did.
Then Events would eventually have to be shut down,and
efforts made for proper discourse and presentation would
come to a grinding halt.
I'm Glad the Prick got what he deserved.He wasn't tortured.
My Proof.He was acting like he was being Skinned Alive,even BEFORE
any force was applied.
The Kid was a set-up hoax for those naive enough to think he
was being for real.Hecklers are escorted out.
Rowdy,uncooperative troublemakers deserve a few if not Mores
Volts to bring back their sanity.

What I find rather odd, is that the cops here are being villified for doing their jobs efficiently, without injuring anyone.
Vile, my point is that the cops did not handle the situation well on any level.

The way to deal an animated person is not to say "calm down." That's just plain stupid. Anyone with any training in crisis intervention can tell you that. (Or any parent of a two year old child.) The police, by adopting a command posture in the situation incited the kid's responses, then they just ramped up the level of command/force, until weapons were used. Poor police work all around, as I see it.

He was a maniac and should lose his job.
Should he be charged with assault with a deadly weapon? I'd consider it.

Vile, my point is that the cops did not handle the situation well on any level.

The way to deal an animated person is not to say "calm down." That's just plain stupid. Anyone with any training in crisis intervention can tell you that. (Or any parent of a two year old child.) The police, by adopting a command posture in the situation incited the kid's responses, then they just ramped up the level of command/force, until weapons were used. Poor police work all around, as I see it.

Yeah...weld.I guess that's why we tolerate yer Stupid appraisals
round hears,as mush we doo-doo.

A big fat bully with a badge.

A big fat bully with a badge.

Agreed es.

I don't agree with the use of the word "torture" here, any more than I would if he had been pepper-sprayed into submission. The cops were trying to get him to stop resisting so they could cuff him and remove him from the venue quickly. What I find rather odd, is that the cops here are being villified for doing their jobs efficiently, without injuring anyone. I will grant that it's not a pleasant scene to watch, but if the cops overreacted, it wasn't a gross violation.

You can disagree with the word all you want but that doesn't make it any less accurate.
They did torture him into silence and that is a crime and a gross overreaction and abuse of power on their part.

I predict they will lose their jobs and the school will end up settling with the student.

And rightfully so. That kids rights were violated as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow.



You don't need to, it's free.

I still got overcharged.

:thumbs:

Should he be charged with assault with a deadly weapon? I'd consider it.

He should be charged with being a bad cop. He was duly appointed and trained and provided with that 'weapon' along with the power to use it whenever he deemed it necessary. He abused that power.

That's what he should be charged with.

He should be charged with being a bad cop. He was duly appointed and trained and provided with that 'weapon' along with the power to use it whenever he deemed it necessary. He abused that power.

That's what he should be charged with. How dare you suggest that our finest do anything other then risk there lives everyday just to keep you safe. Why if we didn't have police you'd be killing each other in the streets. So when some brave man in a uniform tells you to do something, you do it, because you should be licking his boots for all he's done for you.

How dare you suggest that our finest do anything other then risk there lives everyday just to keep you safe. Why if we didn't have police you'd be killing each other in the streets. So when some brave man in a uniform tells you to do something, you do it, because you should be licking his boots for all he's done for you.

I never claimed there were NO bad cops, now, did I? And yes, if we didn't have ANY cops, there would be mass chaos in the streets... including killings. Why not? We have that now at times and we have lots of cops. Do you think people would behave better if they knew nobody was going to be there to arrest them? Get real.

IF some brave man in a uniform AND wearing a badge tells me to do something, chances are I'll do it. And ask questions later. If I don't do it, he has the right to force me to do it and hurt me if I resist. Far cry from licking his boots.

Now let me ask you something.

If a fully uniformed officer walked up to you and said, "Turn around and put your hands behind your back," what would YOU do? Spit in his face? Rant and rave and scream that you didn't do anything wrong? Struggle and try to run away? If you do any one of those things, you're a bigger fool than The Fool.

It's called AUTHORITY and they have it over you, dear. The Constitution provides you with a means to state your case... but it doesn't protect you from people who are appointed to uphold the laws. It simply means you can plead your case in court... in front of a judge and/or jury. And a videotape might help you... or it might hang you. That's YOUR choice. And mine.

The cops were trying to get him to stop resisting so they could cuff him and remove him from the venue quickly. What I find rather odd, is that the cops here are being villified for doing their jobs efficiently, without injuring anyone.

If you will listen to the tape, at the 1:20 mark, the man is heard saying loudly and clearly -- "I'll walk out of here".

He is clearly telling the police that if they will allow him to his feet he will voluntarily leave.

There is NO excuse whatsoever for what the police did, and I find it incredible that you would --in light of his offering to leave the building-- try to defend their actions.