There is a good chance the kid played the cops. He is a known prankster. He acted and the cops over-reacted.sa They weren't made to look like fools by the kid but by their own actions. If cops can be goaded into tazering someone that easily perhaps it is best they be removed from the force. Are such volatile officers the ones you want deciding whether to shoot you or not in a given situation? Police should be level headed and able to defuse situations not hotheaded and escalating them. Hell, I've seen cops on COPS go into family spats and calm everyone down without resorting to violence. Those are a lot more dangerous and volatile situations than this was and they don't go tazering people.

Yeah fantastic logic there! This situation was created by those cops. It's like a fireman starting fires so he can go put them out - would you call the fireman a hero?

What are you talking about!? The situation was created by the guy taking over the microphone and not stopping when he was told to. You might say that the cops overreacted, but saying that the cops "created" the situation is loony.

Tell me exactly how I have dodged the question - I've answered it in plain english - what do you require? finger puppets?


No, you didn't. You just gave a bunch of reasons why you don't want to answer.

Yep, Leper, I agree with you 100%.

Any time a person doesn't leave the mike quickly enough, tazer the bastard. If someone cuts a lunch line at school, tazer the bastard. If someone goes to the ten items or less register with twelve items, tazer the bastard.

No need to us proportional force. You get pissed at someone just tazer the bastard.

I do think the cops may have overreacted a bit, but they are (and correct me if I'm wrong, Brooks or LF) trained to use the tazer to subdue people rather than other forms of physical restraint that could be more likely to result in broken bones, etc. They probably should have just wrestled him to the ground, as I'm sure 6 of them were capable of, but they were acting on instinct and their instinct would tell them to use the tazer. As someone else already said a couple pages ago, hindsight is 20/20. All this crap about "He was just talking and the nutcase cops came up and TAZERED him! Free speech is dead!" is just that, crap. It was an intense situation and none of us were there.

The issue though is the police should not have created that situation in the first place - nobody was threatened, nobody was at risk, there was no real disturbance. What type of situation now justifies a SWAT team? The kid was an ass but he was given the mic to ask questions, he asked them & kerry was willing to answer them. The police created that situation & that is totally wrong. The issue of him resisting after they acted is a different issue all together & in that issue - tasering was way overboard. The kid said "don't tase me Bro" he said he would leave peacefully.

Lets get this straight right now, This is America goddammit. NOBODY had an automatic "right to remove him" unless he did something to cause a threat to public safety.


So a movie theater wouldn't be able to remove someone who was yelling in the middle of a movie? That's not a threat to public safety, right?

It's called "disorderly conduct."

Yep, Leper, I agree with you 100%.

Any time a person doesn't leave the mike quickly enough, tazer the bastard. If someone cuts a lunch line at school, tazer the bastard. If someone goes to the ten items or less register with twelve items, tazer the bastard.

No need to us proportional force. You get pissed at someone just tazer the bastard.

No, first you ask them to leave. Next, you escort the person from your forum. If he fights you, then you tazer. Pretty simple. This guy had all of the chances in the world to avoid being tazered.

Leper, please give me a URL for the video you watched, you know, the one where the kid was yelling at the Senator, where he was being some sort of danger. The video I saw shows none of that. All I saw was a kid at the mike asking questions that Kerry was about to answer when the cops came and started dragging him away.

No, first you ask them to leave. Next, you escort the person from your forum. If he fights you, then you tazer. Pretty simple. This guy had all of the chances in the world to avoid being tazered.


I guess I would have been tazered too had I been there. If I had been peacefully asking a question at a microphone and a cop told me to leave I would tell him to get lost. The kid wasn't breaking any laws so the cops had no reason to use force.

I generally like cops. I think they are necessary. That does not mean I will roll over and play dead and allow them to run roughshod over basic rights.

No, you didn't. You just gave a bunch of reasons why you don't want to answer.

Jeez - ok I would have shot the guy holding up traffic...what hell difference does it make? - how does answering what i'd do in that scenario have any single amount of relevance to this discussion. I never said I was a cop - but I am able to apply common sense to issue as incredibly simple as this issue is.

I gave my answer to it - I have no clue what I'd do - I'm not a cop. That scenario was a totally different scenario that posed some obvious risks, this issue is totally different.

By your logic cops should just taser everybody - heck they might have a gun - who knows where they might do. Traffic stop? Taser first and then ask for the license and registration, afterall cops have to make quick decisions.

Translation: "I got nothing."

I got nothing huh- what do you have, your brown shirt?:hahanot:

If I felt it was an unlawful order, I just might not comply. Police are not judge, jury, and executioner. People have a responsibility, a duty, to not comply to orders which are not founded in legality.

Same thing applies to a soldier who refuses to obey an unlawful order given by one of his superiors.

What the kid was doing was pretty harmless. I hardly think that there was any threat there, and it was wrong to use a taser simply as punishment, which is how I saw the use of the taser. Basically, the cops said, "this is what happens if you don't do as we tell you".

This is America - it was not a riot - he was asking questions, and yeah he did not follow all the little rules you seem to worship ; but it was still a public forum.

In other words - some people are acting like they are 'little nazis'. ;)

I got nothing huh- what do you have, your brown shirt?:hahanot:

If I felt it was an unlawful order, I just might not comply. Police are not judge, jury, and executioner. People have a responsibility, a duty, to not comply to orders which are not founded in legality.

Same thing applies to a soldier who refuses to obey an unlawful order given by one of his superiors.

What the kid was doing was pretty harmless. I hardly think that there was any threat there, and it was wrong to use a taser simply as punishment, which is how I saw the use of the taser. Basically, the cops said, "this is what happens if you don't do as we tell you".

This is America - it was not a riot - he was asking questions, and yeah he did not follow all the little rules you seem to worship ; but it was still a public forum.

In other words - some people are acting like they are 'little nazis'. ;)

Exactly - its good to see some people exhibit common sense. Although in this case, I imagine a healthy % of people in America will exhibit the same level of common sense, when an issue is this clear cut - only the complete dullards would see it otherwise.

So a movie theater wouldn't be able to remove someone who was yelling in the middle of a movie? That's not a threat to public safety, right?

Legally speaking, protected speech is all about context.
Some speech is not protected depending upon what the context is.
Yelling "fire!" in a crowded theater is not protected speech because it does pose a theat to public safety in the form of a stampede. Likewise disturbing a public forum by ranting pointlessly would incite violence and thus public safety. Thats how riots can start.


It's called "disorderly conduct."

I didn't see the kid get "disorderly". He was asking a question of a public official in a public forum specifically designed for citizens to ask questions of that public official. Even if he was asking out of turn, he wasn't that disorderly when the situation is looked at in context.

Looks like those campus cops really get around. seems like they were in Clay County last April.

Tasering a wheelchair bound woman ten times seems a bit excessive, especially since they could easily have stayed out of her range.



Wheelchair-Bound Woman Dies After Being Shocked With Taser 10 Times Wed Sep 19, 9:38 AM ET

A Clay County woman's family said it's seeking justice after their loved one died shortly after being shocked 10 times with Taser guns during a confrontation with police.

The family of 56-year-old Emily Delafield said it would take the Green Cove Springs Police Department to court, according to a WJXT-TV report.

In April 2006, officers with the police department said they were called to a disturbance at a home in the 400 block of Harrison Street just before 5 p.m.

In a 911 call made to the Green Cove Springs, Delafield can be heard telling a dispatcher that she believed she was in danger:

Dispatcher: And what's the problem?

Delafield: My sister is waiting on my property.

Dispatcher: Your what?

Delafield: My sister (inaudible) is on my property trying to harm me.

Officers said they arrived to find Delafield in a wheelchair, armed with two knives and a hammer. Police said the woman was swinging the weapons at family members and police.

Within an hour of her call to 911, Delafield, a wheelchair-bound woman documented to have mental illness, was dead.

Family attorney Rick Alexander said Delafield's death could have been prevented and that there are four things that jump out at him about the case.

"One, she's in a wheelchair. Two, she's schizophrenic. Three, they're using a Taser on a person that's in a wheelchair, and then four is that they tasered her 10 times for a period of like two minutes," Alexander said.

According to a police report, one of the officers used her Taser gun nine times for a total of 160 seconds and the other officer discharged his Taser gun once for a total of no more than five seconds.

A medical examiner found Delafield died from hypertensive heart disease and cited the Taser gun shock as a contributing factor, the report said. On her death certificate, the medical examiner ruled Delafield's death a homicide.

The family said it plans to sue the Green Coves Springs Police Department now that it has all the reports regarding their loved one's death.

"We're going to try to compensate the estate and the family and try to get justice," Alexander said.

He said he believes the evidence weighs heavily in favor of Delafield's family and that justice will be served.

"I think that this evidence is going to show, along with some of the evidence we've collected outside of here, that there is no reason Emily Delafield should have died that day," Alexander said.

He said he plans to file a notice to sue sometime before the end of the year.

I guess I would have been tazered too had I been there. If I had been peacefully asking a question at a microphone and a cop told me to leave I would tell him to get lost. The kid wasn't breaking any laws so the cops had no reason to use force.
Sure he was. The event staff got sick of him making a disruption, and they asked the cops to escort the douche out. Douche refuses. Trespassing and/or disorderly conduct.
Exactly - its good to see some people exhibit common sense. Although in this case, I imagine a healthy % of people in America will exhibit the same level of common sense, when an issue is this clear cut - only the complete dullards would see it otherwise.
Tell me, is the air very thin up there on your high horse? You know damn well it's not clear cut; if it was, there wouldn't be a debate here. And moreover, it's very sad when the owner of the forum is trolling.
If I felt it was an unlawful order, I just might not comply. Police are not judge, jury, and executioner. People have a responsibility, a duty, to not comply to orders which are not founded in legality.
And how is escorting someone out of a building upon illegal, considering that the event staff asked them to escort him out?
What the kid was doing was pretty harmless. I hardly think that there was any threat there, and it was wrong to use a taser simply as punishment, which is how I saw the use of the taser.
You saw incorrectly. The dude was still struggling against the cops and apparently wouldn't keep his free wrist close enough to the cuffed one to be actually cuffed. The cops used the taser to subdue him so they could get him out of there before his struggling managed to injure himself or someone else. Was the kid being "harmless"? Well, I don't think anyone was in any danger IN HINDSIGHT. Again, I can see how the cops could get a little agitated, considering that the dude is yelling at everyone around him to HELP! HELP! (Translation: Help me resist the police.) Was the taser overkill? Arguable, but it wasn't grossly extreme, so I defer to the judgment of the police in this instance.

Why didn't they just tazer the bitch. Imagine not watering her lawn. That's a crime almost as bad as asking questions at a political rally.

Case draws famed lawyer Allred
Great-grandma Betty pleads innocent to resisting arrest over dead grass
By Donald W. Meyers
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 09/18/2007 11:49:47 AM MDT


Posted: 11:51 AM- OREM - Betty Perry pleaded innocent Tuesday to charges she failed to water her lawn and resisted arrest when an officer attempted to cite her.
Perry appeared in 4th District Court in Orem to enter her plea in a case prominent Los Angeles attorney Gloria Allred described as a gross injustice.
"Today, law enforcement in Orem has enshrined itself as the laughing stock of our country by prosecuting a 70-year-old great-grandmother for allegedly not watering her lawn," Allred said. "This ill-conceived action ensures Orem's law enforcement authorities first place in the [Guinness World Records] for stupidity."
Perry's next appearance will be on Oct. 11 for a pre-trial conference.
In July, Perry was cited by Officer James Flygare of the police's Neighborhood Preservation Unit for failing to water her lawn. Perry refused to give her name to the officer and, when Flygare tried to stop her from going back inside her house, she reportedly tripped and injured her nose.
She was arrested and taken to police station but released shortly afterwards.
An investigation by the state Department of Public Safety cleared Flygare of any wrongdoing, and city officials pressed charges against Perry on the landscape violation, a class C misdemeanor, and interfering with a police officer, a class B misdemeanor.
Allred, a high-profile Los Angeles attorney who has represented the family of Nicole Brown Simpson, O.J. Simpson's murdered wife, said she was there to provide support for Perry, whose criminal defense is being handled by M. Paige Benjamin, a Provo attorney.

Why didn't they just tazer the bitch. Imagine not watering her lawn. That's a crime almost as bad as asking questions at a political rally.
What is it Brooks's signature says/said? If you have to exaggerate his point to win, you've already lost? Something like that?

"He was tasered for asking questions", same concept. Fail!

Sure he was. The event staff got sick of him making a disruption, and they asked the cops to escort the douche out. Douche refuses. Trespassing and/or disorderly conduct.

Tell me, is the air very thin up there on your high horse? You know damn well it's not clear cut; if it was, there wouldn't be a debate here. And moreover, it's very sad when the owner of the forum is trolling.

And how is escorting someone out of a building upon illegal, considering that the event staff asked them to escort him out?

You saw incorrectly. The dude was still struggling against the cops and apparently wouldn't keep his free wrist close enough to the cuffed one to be actually cuffed. The cops used the taser to subdue him so they could get him out of there before his struggling managed to injure himself or someone else. Was the kid being "harmless"? Well, I don't think anyone was in any danger IN HINDSIGHT. Again, I can see how the cops could get a little agitated, considering that the dude is yelling at everyone around him to HELP! HELP! (Translation: Help me resist the police.) Was the taser overkill? Arguable, but it wasn't grossly extreme, so I defer to the judgment of the police in this instance.


Your saying it's not clear cut borgie? That's a surprise to me - 'cause it sure seems pretty clear cut to you - since all of us that disagree with you do not see the event correctly, according to you.

And now your mad at the owner of the site too, my, my, my.:hitout:

I agree with Borg on this one. The guy was trying to get attention, and likely pre-planned this action.

He resisted and was tazered... big hairy deal. Was it a bit heavy handed of the campus cops? Probably, but if you don't want crap don't start it. The Q&A portion of the discussion was over and he hijacked the mic. was told to quit/shut up and didn't (plus resisted). Then after he was taken out of the auditorium, he suggested that "the government" was going to kill him.

His 15 minutes of stupid fame.

I still think this was pre-planned by him for attention/reaction. He is no martyr to free speech... he is just a disorderly ass.

Here's something that happened to me once. Tell me what you would do and I'll tell you what actually happened:
I would tell the guy he's got 30 seconds to either get in his car and move it or get into the squad car and go back to the precinct to spend the night in jail. Then I would have tasered him anyway. Seriously, you make a valid point, Brooks. What did you end up doing?

So any time a cop puts his hands on you, you should be allowed to fight him/her? Right.Nope. Never said that. The question is about whether the reaction to the cops "technique" was expected given their obvious inability to calm the riot-of-one college student being political at a political function. They had to do something before he had a chance to kill one of them! What a joke. This is exactly why so many people here and across this country distrust cops to begin with and think those who support them with extreme, stupid hypotheticals are beyond listening to.
By the way, there's plenty of scenarios where you can legally physically force someone to leave when they've made themselves unwelcome. Those scenarios include when you've come to listen to someone speak at a reserved forum and a member of the crowd interrupts the speech.
Yeah, but they don't all get zapped while they're already on the ground, do they? When the Right Wingers shouted down the Imam who was leading prayer in congress, I didn't see any tazers come out. It's all about proportionality. Something you seem to be missing here.

Your saying it's not clear cut borgie? That's a surprise to me - 'cause it sure seems pretty clear cut to you - since all of us that disagree with you do not see the event correctly, according to you.

And now your mad at the owner of the site too, my, my, my.:hitout:
Translation: "I got nothing."

Sure he was. The event staff got sick of him making a disruption, and they asked the cops to escort the douche out. Douche refuses. Trespassing and/or disorderly conduct.
Well then it's clear - you are a Nazi brownshirt. There was no disruption at all beyond what the cops created.

Tell me, is the air very thin up there on your high horse? You know damn well it's not clear cut; if it was, there wouldn't be a debate here. And moreover, it's very sad when the owner of the forum is trolling. It's very clear cut to me, the air is just fine & I couldn't care less what you think is sad.

Well then it's clear - you are a Nazi brownshirt.
Being a supporter of property rights makes me a Nazi now? You'd feel differently if I walked in through your front door and started yapping about John Kerry.
There was no disruption at all beyond what the cops created.
Actually, the event staff created it by asking the cops to escort him out. And, for the record, asking him to leave is not something I would have done, either.

Don't blame the cops. They were middlemen.

are you slow??? when any type of law enforcement officer tells you to STOP... you stop...... when they say PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR BACK.... you do it..... when they say QUIT RESISTING... you obey....
Correction: they say shit like that to get it on TAPE so they can use their nightsticks, tazers, and pepper spray with impunity. Those motherfuckers have done that to me before. Usually, it follows right after you shoot them an insult. Then, lo and behold, you're "resisting". Go figure. :rolleyes:

Nope. Never said that. The question is about whether the reaction to the cops "technique" was expected given their obvious inability to calm the riot-of-one college student being political at a political function.

Their "inability to calm the riot-of-one"? Give me a break.

You act like cops should have the magical ability to calm someone down. Or perhaps you think *tap-tap on the shoulder* "Excuse me sir, if you don't mind, I would appreciate it if you could stop ranting into the mike so we can listen to John Kerry speak" was going to do the trick?

What I know for certain is that when I have a problem with someone being a disorderly nuisance like this guy, I certainly hope the tazer-wielding cops respond, and leave the Shilohproject-cops back at the station giving lollipops to felons for not peeing on the floor.

Yeah, but they don't all get zapped while they're already on the ground, do they? When the Right Wingers shouted down the Imam who was leading prayer in congress, I didn't see any tazers come out. It's all about proportionality. Something you seem to be missing here.

No idea about your Imam example. But I think tasering is proportionate to resisting arrest. I know: crazy concept!

If I was in a coffee shop speaking the exact same things and three times in a row at the end all you could tell me was some piss-ant comment of the origin of the contraction "would've" i promise you would be picking up your teeth pieces at a time.
Careful, Sedan, you're "RESISTING"!!!!

Being a supporter of property rights makes me a Nazi now? You'd feel differently if I walked in through your front door and started yapping about John Kerry.

Yep you are right - if you walked thru my door & started yapping about John Kerry I would feel differently & I'd reach for the Taser and it wouldn't be set to stun, but this is hardly anything like that. This was a political forum at a university - the kid asked questions, Kerry wanted to answer & then the kid got dragged to the floor and tasered.

If you think that is reasonable then you are a brownshirt without a doubt. Sorry dude but it is what it is.

You act like cops should have the magical ability to calm someone down. Or perhaps you think *tap-tap on the shoulder* "Excuse me sir, if you don't mind, I would appreciate it if you could stop ranting into the mike so we can listen to John Kerry speak" was going to do the trick?

You keep on just missing the point, in fact it's clear - you are blinded by your support of everything cops do. The point is - the cops created this issue, not the kid. The kid asked questions, ok he was an ass in how he asked them, but nobody should be surrounded by 6 cops and tasered for over running his question time on the mic or asking tough questions. The whole concept that he was forceably removed by cops is crazy. That is was is wrong & that is the issue - the issue is not one of how cops should restrain themselves once the melee they created has begun - the issue is they should never have started the melee in the 1st place. The kid did basically nothing wrong - Kerry even said "I want to answer those IMPORTANT questions". The situation itself is key to seeing what was and was not reasonable. You cannot compare this to other situations cops might find themselves in - cops had no business even being in that room.

Drew, you're missing the point. You and the others on your side seem to think that the cops just up and decided of their own volition to escort the guy out. The event staff, meaning those who are in charge of what happens at their event, asked them to escort him out. Apparently you ignore it every time Borg says it, so I'll say it now.

But I think tasering is proportionate to resisting arrest. I know: crazy concept!We'll see when this kid sues the pants off of somebody. You're wrong on these irresponsible cops just like you were on the irresponsible cops from Noble, OK. As for proportionality, you don't think a pile of cops on one kid is enough without electrocuting him? You guys are freaking weak!

You cannot compare this to other situations cops might find themselves in - cops had no business even being in that room.

On the contrary, if I were the president of a university and my university had just shelled out a bunch of university resources for a big-time guest speaker, I would fully expect the cops to step in when some obnoxious kid interfered with my educational/promotional investment. In fact, the cops have a duty to enforce the university's right to keep kick someone out of one of their lecture halls.

It's not like this was a political debate between two students or a protest in the street. This kid was hijacking the stage from a famous guest speaker in a college lecture hall. A guest speaker who has so much experience and notoriety that he is there for two reasons: to make the university look good and to provide some education to the students. It wasn't a political debate or a chance to interrogate John Kerry. In that situation, the authorities can legally ask a political activist to leave or shutup, and that's what I would expect them to do whether I was the speaker, a student, or a university official. If the political activist refuses to leave or shuttup, then the authorities can and should use physical force to make them leave or shuttup; they can take their political activity to the street.

The crowd actually cheered when the cops began to escort the guy from the building. That's how peaceable this guy was being.

Call it my blind support of law enforcement, but I think it's simply the fact that I have the ability to put myself in other people's shoes, while you do not.

Then the "event staff" also violated that kids right to free speech and opened the school up to a lawsuit.
I predict the kid will sue the school and they will settle with him.

It was Senator Kerry that the kid was addressing and Senator Kerry was telling the campus police to leave him be and let him ask his question. Obvisouly he did not feel the kid was that much of a disturbance.

Eyewitness Clarissa Jessup (http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/09/witness_defends_kerry_response.html):
"John kerry did try to interfere with the police. at one point, police where holding on to meyers. kerry got to a point where he almost lost his composure and said officer guy. "you, let him go. i do want to hear his question, i do want to hear to what he has to say. i do want to answer him." that was at the point the officers said will pull you aside to ask your question. but as he was attempting to ask his question. the officers themselves appeared to me to make themselves clear not allowing him to stay and hear the question and yelling into his ear."

And you'll see when his lawsuit gets kicked to the curb.

Not likely. I predict that the kid will sue and the school will settle with him.

We'll see when this kid sues the pants off of somebody.


And we'll truly see when his lawsuit gets kicked to the curb.

As for proportionality, you don't think a pile of cops on one kid is enough without electrocuting him? You guys are freaking weak!

The tazer was what saved the douchebag from having the pile of cops on him for a long time. The tazer works both for the safety of the douchebag and the cops, cause wrestling with cops gets people really hurt.

Then the "event staff" also violated that kids right to free speech
How? The event staff is not bound by the Constitution. The government is. UF has every right to tell a person that they may not be in X building. It's their building.

As a different example, say I invited you into my house and you started ranting and raving about, say, Bush. I would be well within my rights to ask you to leave. If you failed to leave and kept ranting, I'd call the cops and ask them to remove you from my property.

How? The event staff is not bound by the Constitution. The government is. UF has every right to tell a person that they may not be in X building. It's their building.

University of Florida is a public (read, "government") institution that was holding a public forum for the purpose of people asking questions of an elected representative. The kid had every right to ask his question and even Senator Kerry was telling the cops to leave the kid be.


As a different example, say I invited you into my house and you started ranting and raving about, say, Bush. I would be well within my rights to ask you to leave. If you failed to leave and kept ranting, I'd call the cops and ask them to remove you from my property.

Your house is private property and in your example you are not holding a public forum.

There is no comparison.

So lemmie get this straight the 5 lunkheads sitting on him were powerless to get handcuffs on him?

Also Tasers are suppossed to be an alternative to using a firearm. He did nothing that would ligimate an officer pulling out their weapon. Tasers are not suppossed to be torure/compliance weapons.

BTW when something like this happens normally they just cut the mic and thats the end of it.

PSBTWWTF - watch the douchbag Kerry not tell the cops to leave the kid alone and then pretend to answer the wuestion after the kid has been tazed and removed.

Being a supporter of property rights makes me a Nazi now? You'd feel differently if I walked in through your front door and started yapping about John Kerry. yeah the nazis loved property rights..."I ain't sellin my goods to no jews".... but thats besides the point.

Do you consider peoples bodies their property? If so it seems that you should agree they unfairly damaged his property and deserve to pay for it.

This could have been solved very easily. Let Kerry answer the question then ask the guy to leave for creating a disturbance. If this had occured first you might have an argument to stand on, but it didn't. Cops are suppossed to solve problems using the least amount of force possible. As it was they used quite a large amount more.

Drew, you're missing the point. You and the others on your side seem to think that the cops just up and decided of their own volition to escort the guy out. The event staff, meaning those who are in charge of what happens at their event, asked them to escort him out. Apparently you ignore it every time Borg says it, so I'll say it now.

Firstly - Well if that is true they are lumped in the same boat as the knucklehead cops - it doesn't make it any more right. Having said that - I doubt they asked the cops to taser the guy.

Secondly - so if the staff asked the cops to shoot the guy in head should they do it? Of course not. The reality is the cops went totally overboard & apparently the event staff are Nazi's too.

The crowd actually cheered when the cops began to escort the guy from the building. That's how peaceable this guy was being.You didn't hear the screams for the cops to stop with all the violence, huh?

Call it my blind support of law enforcement, but I think it's simply the fact that I have the ability to put myself in other people's shoes, while you do not.You just pick which shoe to pretend to fit into so you can support people in uniform who think force is the answer to everything. Long live Kent State, right?

And we'll truly see when his lawsuit gets kicked to the curb.Yeah, your record is so impressive as to how the system will respond.:lolhit:

Borg and Leper seem to realize just how weak their position is and keep making up scenerios that have nothing to do with what happened. First we have the student yelling at the microphone, something he did not do. Then we have a comparison to yelling in a movie theater and being asked to leave by an usher, then in the height of absurdity Borg compares what happened tio someone entering his home and yelling about Kerry. The weaker the argument the further afield they seem to be going.

Fact, he was asking questions at a question and answer event.

Fact, he was being annoying.

Fact, Senator Kerry was in the process of answering his questions.

Fact, a phalynx of cops tried to bum rush him out of the venue.

Fact, he at first raised his hands in submission.

Fact, the cops escalated the situation unnecessarily.

Fact, the cops had this skinny kid outnumbered five to one.

Fact, they had him on the ground.

Fact, he said loud enough for everyone to hear that he would leave quietly.

Fact, he asked the cops to not tazer him.

Fact, once the cops had him on the ground they tazered him.

Not fact, this was not a movie theater filled with people watching a movie.

Not fact, this was not a private home.

Not fact, he did not enter uninvited. Since this was a public event his invitation to it is assumed.

Fact, he was asking questions at a question and answer event.
After the Q and A period was closed.

Fact, he was being annoying.
Agreed, and that was his plan.

Fact, Senator Kerry was in the process of answering his questions.
What should he have done? (the event staff should have shut the mic off to avoid this... anyways)

Fact, a phalynx of cops tried to bum rush him out of the venue.
Nice descriptive there... lol

Fact, he at first raised his hands in submission.
And then proceeded to wave them/flail about when confronted.

Fact, the cops escalated the situation unnecessarily.
And he did nothing to resist (besides scream "Help, Help!)?

Fact, the cops had this skinny kid outnumbered five to one.
Agreed.

Fact, they had him on the ground.
While he was screaming to others for help.

Fact, he said loud enough for everyone to hear that he would leave quietly.
He had no intention to do this, otherwise he wouldn't have handed someone his video camera before this altercation. He was trying to incite a response.

Fact, he asked the cops to not tazer him.
That was a classic. He also stated that the government was going to kill him later.

Fact, once the cops had him on the ground they tazered him.
I agree it was overkill, but it's not like they shot him or broke his arm.

Not fact, this was not a movie theater filled with people watching a movie.
True.

Not fact, this was not a private home.
True again.

Not fact, he did not enter uninvited. Since this was a public event his invitation to it is assumed.
But "invitations" for questions WERE over... He commandeered the mic after the Q&A period had concluded.

1. ......I have not been TRAINED as a police officer.....
2. I am not sure - but here goes: ask for his driver's license, insurance information and then give him a ticket, I would think.1. Not that we didn't know this already, but that sentence should also have been the pretext for your criticism of the police in the video.

2. You're kidding, right? The guy had already shown that he will not listen to lawful orders. Myself, LiquidFork and those campus police would easily recognize the fact that that particular strategy would be useless.
Similarly, some people could recognize that the kid in the video was escalating before the police even approached him. His overly dhramatic reaction wasn't solely driven by the fact that the police intervened.

By the way, your answer to this question would have caused the situation to continue to escalate.
Until you're pressed to think about it, you have no idea how much you don't know.
Unlike my situation and those campus police, you can now walk away from the computer and forget about it.

University of Florida is a public (read, "government") institution that was holding a public forum for the purpose of people asking questions of an elected representative. The kid had every right to ask his question and even Senator Kerry was telling the cops to leave the kid be.



Just because it's a "public" institution doesn't mean you get full access to that institution because you're a member of the "public". Professors can kick rowdy guys out of their classroom, too.

Yeah, your record is so impressive as to how the system will respond.:lolhit:

No idea what "record" you are referring too. In the meantime, I'm going to assume this is just something else you pull out of the recesses of your colon when you have nothing worthwhile to add to the topic.

Also Tasers are suppossed to be an alternative to using a firearm. He did nothing that would ligimate an officer pulling out their weapon. Tasers are not suppossed to be torure/compliance weapons.


What are you talking about? Tasers are used in non-life threatening situations all of the time. And probably the most common usage is when someone wants to wrestle with police.

1. how does answering what i'd do in that scenario have any single amount of relevance to this discussion.
2. By your logic cops should just taser everybody - heck they might have a gun - who knows where they might do.
1. The similarity is that you have someone who doesn't want to listen but isn't doing anything violent enough to warrants an intense use of force. The person is playing to the crowd and his behavior is escalating in a bad direction. The more time that passes, the more you are being scrutinized.
From the standpoint of an experienced police officer, those situations are exactly the same.

2. His point was well put. Your exaggeration of what he said is not.


I think the problem with a civilian's perception of a police officer's job is that they tend to confuse education with intelligence (some of it natural, some earned through experience).
To become a police officer requires less formal education than many other professions.
But there are some very educated and intelligent people here who would have no idea what to do or even how to assess a situation most police officers would consider routine.

No idea what "record" you are referring too. In the meantime, I'm going to assume this is just something else you pull out of the recesses of your colon when you have nothing worthwhile to add to the topic.How did that brilliant legal mind of yours work re the Noble, Oklahoma, case? And I'm not suprised that you assume what you do; it the coward's way out of self-examination.

How did that brilliant legal mind of yours work re the Noble, Oklahoma, case? And I'm not suprised that you assume what you do; it the coward's way out of self-examination.

Um, I wasn't making a "legal" argument Shiloh. The argument was based on morality. Do you know the difference between legal and moral?

If I want to debate about what the law is, I argue with lawyers.

Edit: And seriously, was the OK officer ever charged with a crime? I assume not, and if that's the case, you're only substantiating my "record," and blemishing yours.

What are you talking about? Tasers are used in non-life threatening situations all of the time. Yeah, this taser thing is getting to be ridiculous. What was supposed to be a less-than-lethal opion for dealing with serious threats has turned into a more violent opion when little or no threat at all is present. Disobey a command? 50,000 volts is the answer! Then they tell you to get up, though your ability to do so has been zapped by the taser, then, becasue you didn't get up, they tase you again!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs
http://www.alternet.org/rights/44455/
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=96715

Um, I wasn't making a "legal" argument Shiloh. The argument was based on morality. Do you know the difference between legal and moral? Oh, bull! You spoke often about what was and was not legal in the situation. Like you were some sort of respected authority. You even went so far as to point out that, though you enjoyed educating people about the law, you were not my attorney. Crack me up! Your memory is as bad as your "morals."

If I want to argue about what the law is, I argue with lawyers.Then come see my wife. She's had several looks at your posts and found them often quite entertaining.

Edit: And seriously, was the OK officer ever charged with a crime? I assume not, and if that's the case, you're only substantiating my "record," and blemishing yours.
Does this sound anything like this uneducated mind was tellling you all along. Let the jury have a chance. That's what I said repeatedly, but you had decided it was a waste of time and money, that no crime had been committed. Remember now?


Sat September 8, 2007
Rookie fired the shot that proved deadly for 5-year-oldRelated Information

Cheryl Tracy, left, hugs her daughter Renee Haley as Haley's husband, Jack, holds her hand Friday as District Attorney Greg Mashburn announced charges of second-degree manslaughter against two Noble police officers in the death of the Haleys' 5-year-old son. By STEVE SISNEY, THE OKLAHOMAN

http://newsok.com/article/3120824

CBS 42 Austin (KEYE) | 9/20/2007
Jennifer Griswold
Staff Writer
NORMAN — A Noble boy's parents were pleased charges were filed over their son being killed by a police bullet intended for a snake. But the charges don't ease the pain of their loss, they said.

Two Noble police officers were charged in Cleveland County District Court with a felony count each of second-degree manslaughter in the boy's Aug. 3 shooting death.

Officer Paul Bradley Rogers, 34, and Sgt. Robert Shawn Richardson, 29, are accused of causing the death of Austin Haley, 5, by negligently firing at a snake. A bullet ricocheted and hit the child while he was outside fishing with his grandfather, investigators said.

Rogers, an officer in training, fired the shot that killed Austin. Rogers only had been on the Noble police force about a month, District Attorney Greg Mashburn said Friday. Richardson, Rogers' supervisor, gave the order to shoot, officials said.

Mashburn said the decision to charge the officers is one of the most difficult he's made.

"I conclude that these officers failed to do something that a reasonably careful person would do by firing a weapon at a nonpoisonous snake that was stuck in a birdhouse without knowing what laid behind their location,” he said.

After looking at the facts, he said he couldn't treat the case any differently than he would any other accidental death.

"Although this event was accidental, with reasonable care and caution, the death of a child could have been avoided, and there must be some level of accountability for those officers that were involved.”

The officers will be allowed to turn themselves in next week, Mashburn said. If found guilty on the felony charge, the officers could face two to four years in prison, he said.

1. So lemmie get this straight the 5 lunkheads sitting on him were powerless to get handcuffs on him?
2. Also Tasers are suppossed to be an alternative to using a firearm. 1. Cuffing someone is an extremely difficult thing to do. If the person is the least bit uncooperative, it's nearly impossible. Once three officers can't subdue someone enough to cuff him, five is no better than three since the subject's body is of limited size and there's just not enough room for everyone to assist. Thirty cops wouldn't have made it any easier.

2. A taser is NOT an alternative to a firearm. Not that you probably care, but in the principle of "escalation of force", deadly physical force is the final step. A taser is a non-lethal device. It would probably occupy a second or third step. Roughly the equivalent of a baton.

I'm not trained in taser use, I've never seen one used, in fact I've never even seen one in person so I don't know too much about them.
But there's a video of the kid immediately after he is finally subdued. He is calm and polite and walking on his own. If those cops were intent on making this type of arrest in the days before Tasers, he would probably have been badly bruised and injured.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aHl4cPRDpzw

Lets take the taser and pepper spray away from cops. Just leave them with the 9mm. That'll show em. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Those new zip tie cuffs make it much easier, do they not?

[Two Noble police officers were charged in Cleveland County District Court with a felony count each of second-degree manslaughter in the boy's Aug. 3 shooting death.


Thanks for the update. I still believe the officers shouldn't be charged however. Feel free to update what happens in the trial....but I would do that in the original thread.

And from that debate here was a fundamental exchange you ignored after I used the term "moral culpability."


you mean to say criminal culpability?

No, I'm not just considering what is criminal and what isn't...I'm also considering what is right and what is wrong.

You were the one who started asking about criminal law. I simply answered your questions.

And if your wife wants to contribute to a discussion, feel free to invite her on.

Firstly - Well if that is true they are lumped in the same boat as the knucklehead cops - it doesn't make it any more right. Having said that - I doubt they asked the cops to taser the guy.

Secondly - so if the staff asked the cops to shoot the guy in head should they do it? Of course not. The reality is the cops went totally overboard & apparently the event staff are Nazi's too.

What should be done to someone UNWILLINBG to be restrained.?
The Cops did the right thing.
Maybe if enough people saw,just what happens to someone who
willfully throws a temper tantrum,shouting,screeching,and
hysterically disrupting an event.The same Goddamned thing
that Happened to Rodney King.However King also took the Cops
on a high speed chase and refused to be restrained.
The strange thing about his Million dollar winning lawsuit was,there
were 2 thugs in the back of King's car,who behaved and
didn't try to take on the Cops.
The lesson is simple.
Don't run from the Cops.
Don't try and match shouts and physicality with the Police.
You'll LOSE every time.
Well not You,butts close.
a

Thanks for the update. I still believe the officers shouldn't be charged however.That's the point I'm asking you to consider.
And from that debate here was a fundamental exchange you ignored after I used the term "moral culpability."I didn't ignore it. I challenged it. And that wasn't the limit of your contribution.
You were the one who started asking about criminal law. I simply answered your questions.Rhetorical questions don't require answers, but rather attempt to make a point.
And if your wife wants to contribute to a discussion, feel free to invite her on.Her office schedule doesn't allow much time for such fun. But she does offer input and challenge my thinking from time to time (read: all the time).

I do think the cops may have overreacted a bit, but they are (and correct me if I'm wrong, Brooks or LF) trained to use the tazer to subdue people rather than other forms of physical restraint that could be more likely to result in broken bones, etc. They probably should have just wrestled him to the ground, as I'm sure 6 of them were capable of, but they were acting on instinct and their instinct would tell them to use the tazer. As someone else already said a couple pages ago, hindsight is 20/20. All this crap about "He was just talking and the nutcase cops came up and TAZERED him! Free speech is dead!" is just that, crap. It was an intense situation and none of us were there.

The use of a taser is for "non lethal" force. That kid is sitting somewhere right now and he doesnt feel a thing from the taser days earlier. If he was maced,shot,or roughed up he could still be feeloing the effects.

I hope no one on here has ever been tasered but it is not a fun experiance. If I ever decide to act like a jackass and resist police and i need to be detained i would much take the "roughed up" approach versus the taser.

Because the term "non lethal" I think police might be more prone to use it in a rash mannor VS discharging a fire arm. If you shoot someone there is no going back even if it is a flesh wound. If you taser someone within 45 minutes they are fine.

Just because it's a "public" institution doesn't mean you get full access to that institution because you're a member of the "public". Professors can kick rowdy guys out of their classroom, too.

It wasn't a class. It was a public event.

Those new zip tie cuffs make it much easier, do they not?

they do absolutly.... you have no idea how much easier they are.... but if someone is really resisting those types of restraints after they are applied pose a risk to the suspect. It is easy to break your wrist while being restrained with the zips.

. It is easy to break your wrist while being restrained with the zips.Is it easy to have a heart attack as a result of a taser shot?

1. The similarity is that you have someone who doesn't want to listen but isn't doing anything violent enough to warrants an intense use of force. The person is playing to the crowd and his behavior is escalating in a bad direction. The more time that passes, the more you are being scrutinized.
From the standpoint of an experienced police officer, those situations are exactly the same.
There is zero comparison. The only reason you even raised your scenario was to brag about what you face as a cop. It's easy to see through it.

The only thing that escalated that situation was the cops. The whole situation was created by them. Had they not stepped in - Kerry would have answered, the kid would have gone back to his seat - end of story. It's 'aint rocket science.

Those who say the cops were right to tazer the guy keep saying the mike had been turned off and the question period was over. I rewatched the video and they are wrong. The mike was still live and the student was asking a question that Kerry was answering when the cops came up behind him and blindsided him. Rather than asking him to leave they grabbed him from behind and started strongarming him. In fact they grabbed him while Senator Kerry was in the process of answering his question.

It seems the cops were intent on using maximum force from the very beginning. You can see them looking around the audience just before they grabbed him.

"All power corrupts, absolute power is even more fun"
-Simon Travaglia, The Operator From Hell, 1997

The fact that the mic was on means the event staff were allowing him to speak - if they didn't want him to speak they could have turned off his mic from the start.

They sent in the knuckle dragging attack dogs when he asked about Skull & Bones - because they presumably thought it was embarrasing to Kerry - yet Kerry had no problem answering his questions.

The case is clear cut - the cops caused the problem - if anybody should be charged with disturbing the peace, or inciting a riot - it should be those cops. They were way out of line & all need to be fired & the taser guy needs to got to jail for a few months.

Cops need to be held accountable.

the cops caused the problem
I think it's eminently clear that the ultimate root of the problem was the guy being a douchebag. Had he been polite and sane, the police would never have been interested in him.

Let me get this straight, Borg, if you are not polite the police have the right to grab you, strongarm you and ultimately tazer you. I always thought you were an advocate of free speech but I guess I was wrong.

Please explain what was insane about his question concerning Kerry's membership in Skull and Bones. I guess you feel those who ask uncomfortable questions of candidates are insane.

Wow! Did I have you pegged wrong. You're not a Libertarian. You're a Nazi.

I absolutely can't believe how dramatic some of you people are being. This was NOT a case of "Guy was just doing everything he was supposed to and the cops grabbed him and tazered him even though he was cooperating completely and not resisting or making a scene!" :rolleyes:

I absolutely can't believe how dramatic some of you people are being. This was NOT a case of "Guy was just doing everything he was supposed to and the cops grabbed him and tazered him even though he was cooperating completely and not resisting or making a scene!" :rolleyes:

What was he doing that he was not supposed to do, DF, asking the Senator a question at an open mike forum? I can't believe some of the people here who seem willing to say he deserved even the initial contact with the cops because he was asking a question of the good Senator.

Let me get this straight, Borg, if you are not polite the police have the right to grab you, strongarm you and ultimately tazer you. I always thought you were an advocate of free speech but I guess I was wrong.

Please explain what was insane about his question concerning Kerry's membership in Skull and Bones. I guess you feel those who ask uncomfortable questions of candidates are insane.

Wow! Did I have you pegged wrong. You're not a Libertarian. You're a Nazi.
Wow do YOU ever have this wrong. I've stated my opinions in this thread numerous times. Go back and look at them.

If the owner of a building wants you gone, the police can remove you. If you resist the police, you may be tasered, hit with a baton, maced, or something similar. It's not hard to understand. The content of his little rant was immaterial.

What was he doing that he was not supposed to do, DF, asking the Senator a question at an open mike forum? I can't believe some of the people here who seem willing to say he deserved even the initial contact with the cops because he was asking a question of the good Senator.
He wouldn't leave, and when they tried to politely guide him out of the place, he began to physically resist. When you bring violence into the equation, you can't expect the cops to continue being polite.

I don't have to go back. You have stated you opinion of free speech quite clearly here. What was it you called the guy who was quietly asking a question, oh yeah, a douchebag. Since his question was possibly an uncomfortable one for the Senator the young man was not only a douchebag but was also impolite and insane and deserved to be removed from the hall and arrested.

That sure sounds like the words of a believer in freedom of speech. NOT!

I don't have to go back. You have stated you opinion of free speech quite clearly here. What was it you called the guy who was quietly asking a question, oh yeah, a douchebag. Since his question was possibly an uncomfortable one for the Senator the young man was not only a douchebag but was also impolite and insane and deserved to be removed from the hall and arrested.

That sure sounds like the words of a believer in freedom of speech. NOT!
You have no inherent right to exercise your freedom of speech on someone else's property.

He wouldn't leave, and when they tried to politely guide him out of the place, he began to physically resist. When you bring violence into the equation, you can't expect the cops to continue being polite.

Why in hell should he have had to leave? What was he doing that called for his removal from the hall? Do you consider asking Senator Kerry a question from a live mike at an open mike forum some sort of crime?

You have no inherent right to exercise your freedom of speech on someone else's property.

Now you are just getting silly, Borg. It was a question and answer forum and you are now declaring that he had no right to ask a question.

Why in hell should he have had to leave? What was he doing that called for his removal from the hall? Do you consider asking Senator Kerry a question from a live mike at an open mike forum some sort of crime?
Does it matter? You can remove someone or have someone removed from your property for whatever reason you want. No matter how asinine.

Now you are just getting silly, Borg. It was a question and answer forum and you are now declaring that he had no right to ask a question.
After the time had expired and they announced no more questions? You're right, he didn't have a right to do that.

Borg, you are being about as dense as any poster I have ever come across. The mike was still live and the Senator was in the process of answering his question so obviously the question and answer period had not ended.

Wouod you please show where in the video the Senator or someone from his staff asked that the speaker be removed. I doubt that you can since Senator Kerry can be heard saying that the question was an important one that deserved an answer.

Face it, Borg, you have painted yourself into a corner and rather than being gracious you are being pigheaded and acting like a little brown shirt.

Quote from another student (Tyler Antar) in-line to ask Senator Kerry a question..."So I went to the John Kerry town hall forum this morning trying to get students registered to vote. I run a student government organization called Chomp the Vote.
Anyway I went inside to watch the event. Senator Kerry took the podium and began delivering a speech about the Middle East, Iraq, dimplomacy, etc. Anyway, after he was done, a university ambassador asked Kerry a few premade questions. Once that was over, Senator Kerry announced he would take questions from the students.
There were two microphones placed on each side of the aisle. One on my side and the other on Andrew Meyer’s side. Senator Kerry began answering the student’s questions from each aisle. Eventually it was announced that there would only be a few more questions answered.
Since Meyer and I were both in the back of each line, it did not seem likely that our questions would be answered.
However, while Senator Kerry was responding to a student’s question, all of a sudden Meyer rushed to the microphone with cops in pursuit. At that point no one knew what was going on… Immediately, Meyer began yelling into the microphone that he had been waiting in line forever and that Senator Kerry should “spend time to answer everyone’s questions!” Senator Kerry tried to calm the student down by telling him that he would “stay here as long as it takes to get the questions answered.”



So the Q&A session was about to end and the guy rushed to the front of the line... this is what attracted the police initially.

Borg, you are being about as dense as any poster I have ever come across. The mike was still live and the Senator was in the process of answering his question so obviously the question and answer period had not ended.

That's odd. Borg's making perfect sense to me.

Kerry tried to answer the guy's question but he continued talking over Kerry's response. Not that it matters, cause, as Borg is trying to tell you, the guy could be reciting the Constitution of the United States, but the university can still have him removed from the property.

Wouod you please show where in the video the Senator or someone from his staff asked that the speaker be removed. I doubt that you can since Senator Kerry can be heard saying that the question was an important one that deserved an answer.
Kerry's staff would probably not be the ones to do that, since it was not Kerry's event. He was a guest speaker, not the organizer.

That's odd. Borg's making perfect sense to me.

Kerry tried to answer the guy's question but he continued talking over Kerry's response. Not that it matters, cause, as Borg is trying to tell you, the guy could be reciting the Constitution of the United States, but the university can still have him removed from the property.
Fair enough. Not that I'm disagreeing with you on any of your statements here, but you and I both know that cops live for that kinda shit. They love it.

They're trained to yell shit like "quit resisting" as they baton your spleen. It helps lawyers like you make a good case for 'em as the "law-breaker" in question recovers at the hospital.

That might be true about some cops, Prae, but what do you think in this specific case? Was the guy asking for it?

They're trained to yell shit like "quit resisting" as they baton your spleen. It helps lawyers like you make a good case for 'em as the "law-breaker" in question recovers at the hospital.:drinktoth

Was the guy asking for it?Do you mean was he asking to get zapped with 50,000 volts of electricity? On the tape I heard he plainly asked not to be.

I think it's eminently clear that the ultimate root of the problem was the guy being a douchebag. Had he been polite and sane, the police would never have been interested in him.

Thats a dumbass statement to make - since when is it a law to be polite and sane. That guy was a bit of an ass, but he was never even close to stepping over the line of reasonable behaviour.

So now cops can taser you if you are not polite?

It was political speech for Christ sake - it's supposed to be heated. That's what politics is all about - you know debate, freedom, democracy.

Apparently in Borgs world - any loud voice must be silenced by the gestapo with tasers.

...but the university can still have him removed from the property.That may be, but there's a wrong way to do it, as we saw on the video.

This was NOT a case of "Guy was just doing everything he was supposed to and the cops grabbed him and tazered him :rolleyes:

Yes it was absolutely!!

It was political forum - people are SUPPOSED to ask tough questions of elected officials. He had the mic, the event handlers allowed him to talk into the mic, Kerry said "GOOD QUESTIONS" - and then the kid got dragged off and tasered.

For anybody who thinks that is reasonable - you have to ask 'What World Do You Live In ?'

That might be true about some cops.
I'd say the vast majority.
...but what do you think in this specific case? Was the guy asking for it?
I vacillate on that one. Was he wrong for rushing the stand? Yes. Did Kerry say that he'd like to answer his question? Yes. As a matter of fact, he said he'd "stay as long as it takes" to answer ALL the questions. Therein lies the rub. Was the punishment (given that venue) appropriate? Absolutely not. Is that what we do to people who cut in line now? I mean, c'mon - that was ridiculous.

Well, Prae, it doesn't matter what Kerry said, because the event organizers wanted the dude to leave. They were the ones commanding the cops, not Kerry.

Heaven forbid we'd have a college kid passionate about what's going on in this country. Tase that sucker! Gawd!

I'm pretty sure it was a dare from his frat, or he just wants attention. If it wasn't however, then he shoulda known what would have happened if he kept it up like he was.

Well, Prae, it doesn't matter what Kerry said, because the event organizers wanted the dude to leave. They were the ones commanding the cops, not Kerry.
Technically speaking, you're right. Considering the obvious, they sure set him up good, didn't they? "Come on up and ask John Kerry a question!!!!".......BzzZZtttT....::no, no, please - not AGAIN!::.......BZZzzTTtt......::Uggghhhh::......"you're goin' to jail, punk!"

Nice move on their part. Real ethical, for sure.

I may be crazy, but I only saw him get tazered once in the video...

Fair enough. Not that I'm disagreeing with you on any of your statements here, but you and I both know that cops live for that kinda shit. They love it.

They're trained to yell shit like "quit resisting" as they baton your spleen. It helps lawyers like you make a good case for 'em as the "law-breaker" in question recovers at the hospital.

I don't know about you, but this doesn't really sound like a guy who was getting his spleen batoned (nice image).


"As (Meyer) was escorted down stairs (at the University Auditorium) with no cameras in sight, he remained quiet, but once the cameras made their way down stairs he started screaming and yelling again," Mallo wrote.

Mallo was one of two officers who actually rode in the vehicle as Meyer was escorted to the Alachua County jail, and she said said he told them during the ride: "I am not mad at you guys, you didn't do anything wrong, you were just trying to do your job," according to Mallo's account.

Mallo also wrote in her report that he asked, at one point, if cameras would be present at the jail.


http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1898797/posts?page=2

I may be crazy, but I only saw him get tazered once in the video...
Okaaaaay, so take out one of the Bzzzzzt's, and my point still stands. They STILL set him up, and they STILL used excessive and unnecessary force to subdue a college student who was wielding...........(prepare yourself for this one).........a question.

That's like inviting someone to your home, immediately asking them to leave, experiencing some friction because, well, you INVITED them over, and within 1 minute of your initial request, tazing them for not leaving. Are you within your "legal" right? Maybe. Was it the right thing to do? Yeah, for Joseph Goebbels.

Meyer began yelling into the microphone that he had been waiting in line forever and that Senator Kerry should “spend time to answer everyone’s questions!” Senator Kerry tried to calm the student down by telling him that he would “stay here as long as it takes to get the questions answered.”



So the Q&A session was about to end and the guy rushed to the front of the line... this is what attracted the police initially.

Whatever initially attracted the cop's attention was mute once Sentator Kerry said he would continue to answer questions. The guy stood in line for a long time and didn't want to not have an opportunity to ask his question. Senator Kerry agreed with him. The cops bum rushed him. Look at the video. They didn't politely ask him to leave. The came up behind him and grabbed him.

I don't know about the country some posters live in but I live in a country where we are still allowed to question our politicians without having to worry about being tazered by overzealous and underqualified cops. Maybe Borg lives in a country where not being polite enough is sufficient cause for being tazered but happily, I don't.

Just like the cops in Noble, these people were unqualified to wear a police uniform. They should be disciplined and the cop who used the tazer should be removed from the force.

He asked if cameras would be present at the jail... LOL