"Most people who are in the prison system will get out, they will be somebody’s neighbor and they will have gained nothing from their time in prison except the knowledge that “it’s you or me” because that’s the way it is in our prisons. They have removed most of the educational programs from our prisons because the tax payers don’t want to throw away good money on worthless criminals. They have no counseling, nothing to help them change whatever it was that got them where they are in the first place. Is this what we really want?" "Misconceptions About Prison Life" By Jeanette Doil

The Eighth Amendment of The Bill of Rights for the Constitution of the United States: "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." The very way prisons are operated today is a clear violation of this amendment.

Prison life today is the complete forfeiture of freedom for a certain period of time; sometimes the remaining days of one's life. Both violent and non-violent people are mixed together in the prison population which violates the Eighth Amendment because the potentiality for violence against non-violent offenders strongly exists. Furthermore, given the present conditions, those given life sentences without the possibility of parol would be better off if given the option of execution by the method of their choosing. But what about those with the chance of eventually leaving prison and returning to society?

One of the things strongly lacking in prison today is personal discipline; self imposed discipline. This is the discipline that makes you try harder and work more intensely then you ever thought you could. Sadly, prisoners lack both the incentive and ability to develop this themselves. Consequently, discipline needs to come from outside themselves. The best source of external discipline comes from United States Marine Corps boot-camp seargants. Prisoners need to be treated the same as new recruits when they step off the bus into the prison yard for the first time. It needs to be made clear that until they are released, the "system" will not allow them to continue in their present state of disorder. Once the prisoner accepts their new found source of discipline, they may "graduate" to learning a trade or completing an education. Various forms of counselling must also be provided in order to keep them focused on their path to rehabilitation. The right of the prisoners to peaceably assemble must be forfeited in order to prevent the formation of groups detrimental to the process. This would also prevent the smuggling of drugs into the prison as the corrupt corrections officer would no longer have a "market". The problem with prisons today is that they only serve to foster a continuation of the human condition that leads to incarceration. With all this discussion and funding of homeland security, it would seem logical to start with America's prisons as a means of improving the safety and security of every United States citizen.

Prison life today is the complete forfeiture of freedom for a certain period of time; sometimes the remaining days of one's life. Both violent and non-violent people are mixed together in the prison population which violates the Eighth Amendment because the potentiality for violence against non-violent offenders strongly exists.

The 8th Amendment doesn't require prisons to be perfect, just to not be intentionally or negligently cruel. I think they achieve that.

One of the things strongly lacking in prison today is personal discipline; self imposed discipline. This is the discipline that makes you try harder and work more intensely then you ever thought you could. Sadly, prisoners lack both the incentive and ability to develop this themselves. Consequently, discipline needs to come from outside themselves. The best source of external discipline comes from United States Marine Corps boot-camp seargants. Prisoners need to be treated the same as new recruits when they step off the bus into the prison yard for the first time. It needs to be made clear that until they are released, the "system" will not allow them to continue in their present state of disorder. Once the prisoner accepts their new found source of discipline, they may "graduate" to learning a trade or completing an education.

That's a great idea! Unfortunately most of the people that think that prisons, in their current state, are cruel would also think having marine drill sergeants would be cruel.

Good post the killers should be killed the he!! with this life sentence crap, oh and they should be killed fast none of this being on death row for 10-20-30 even more years.

I also agree bring back the work force make these scum earn there bread. They are in prison because they screwed up not because they are sweet little puppys. Make them get off there arse at 400hrs. give them breakfast, at 600hrs make them do hard labor until 1800hrs. of course as long as they behave they can have two 15min. breaks and a 30min. lunch during the day. On sunday they can pray or do whatever as long as they behave. They screw up then they can get locked in a nice dark room until they figure there sorry a** out.

Originally posted by LionelHutz
One of the things strongly lacking in prison today is personal discipline; self imposed discipline. This is the discipline that makes you try harder and work more intensely then you ever thought you could. Sadly, prisoners lack both the incentive and ability to develop this themselves. Consequently, discipline needs to come from outside themselves. The best source of external discipline comes from United States Marine Corps boot-camp seargants. Prisoners need to be treated the same as new recruits when they step off the bus into the prison yard for the first time. It needs to be made clear that until they are released, the "system" will not allow them to continue in their present state of disorder. Once the prisoner accepts their new found source of discipline, they may "graduate" to learning a trade or completing an education.

I concur. Excellent, excellent idea.

Actually Joe said that. :-)

Bah, silly quoting. ;)

Nice post Joe!

I have an idea lets kill ALL the prisoners in prison right now. Then every ten years we will do it again. We won't set a date for the killings, they'll just know it'll happen within a 10 year period from the last killing. Lets see how criminals act then, I bet it would cut down on crime, not to mention the world is getting over populated as it is. Kill two birds with one stone help take out the scum and population control.

You are right. I always thought that death penalty is not really efficient because it is only used for major crimes. For example, if you are going to rob a bank and kill five people, you may take the chance of getting caught and sentenced to death because on the other hand if you don't get caught you become a millionnaire.
But if a bullet in the head was the immediate response for petty crime - overdue parking, stealing a candybar or insulting a police officer, I bet people would behave much better.

Hey - but I know. Instead of changing the laws of our countries, we should all move to North Korea. There people are killed or sent to jail for things that are not even crimes in most countries. It must be a paradise.

Originally posted by astrapol2
insulting a police officer Since when is a simple insult a crime? The overdue parking tickets should certainly be a capital offense.

You have to agree "fear" can be the best tool sometimes. Once we kill a few million of these criminals don't you think they'll get the message? Plus we'll have cleaned out the system, start fresh.

Mad dog - you seem to believe that there are two different categories of people : criminals and the other. And to stop crime, it would just be necessary to wipe away the criminals.
The truth is that anyone can become a criminal. You cannot suppress "them".
I agree that repression is sometimes necessary. But do you really want to live in a society where the only reason not to become a criminal is fear - fear of a deadly and arbitrary justice ?

I prefer a society where people are given a chance not to become criminals. And where those who commit crimes are punished but also helped to become useful members of their community when the punishment is over.

Allright how about this if the "new world cops" catch you steeling red handed.... they get to cut off the small finger. If you are caught fleeing from the NWC then they cut of your smallest toe. If you are caught lying about a crime then they can cut off the tip of your tongue. Of course as each crime grows, or gets commited again they get to cut of body parts until there is just NO body left. This way they can still be usefull without doing time, and if they can't behave then well.........GOOD bye!

You should live in Saudi Arabia or in Iran.

American prisons are probably no better and no worse than those found in other Western nations. Most criminals have flawed personalities. Attempts at rehabilitating a flawed personality is an exercise in futility. Put them to work, enough so that prisoner's efforts reduce the burden on society by at least 75%. Already they're better cared for than many who pay their bills: full medical care, full dental, regular meals, no bills to pay. If prison life seems unfair to some because of their neighbors being big, ugly, mean & perverted, well that's just to bad. Nobody outside the prison really gets to choose their neighbors either.

Originally posted by es347fan
American prisons are probably no better and no worse than those found in other Western nations.

From what I know from french prisons, I agree - but that is not precisely a thing I am proud of for my country.

Most criminals have flawed personalities.
A very arbitrary statment.

Attempts at rehabilitating a flawed personality is an exercise in futility.

I thought you were a therapist. Don't you thing that precisely those with personality disorders should be helped rather than (or in addition to) locked ?

Put them to work, enough so that prisoner's efforts reduce the burden on society by at least 75%.

They already do. Prisoners in the USA work for private companies in various fields of activities, from manufacturing to services, enabling these companies to make massive profits with this nearly unpaid workforce.

Already they're better cared for than many who pay their bills: full medical care, full dental, regular meals, no bills to pay.

That is not a positive thing for the prison system but rather a very negative thing for the whole social system !

Regarding flawed personalities, prove me wrong. There's probably no harder task for a therapist than to contend with personality disorders. As a societal group, they do not learn from their mistakes, they do not care to change, they are convinced they have the right answer to everything.

Originally posted by astrapol2
You should live in Saudi Arabia or in Iran.

LMAO :D :D I don't want to be ruler I just want to take out the trash. Why should honest people that never commit crimes be treated the same as a childmolester(or vice versa).

I do relize some crimes are small and petty, but these folks that kill, rape, molest children, etc.... HONESTLY what good are they? You have 4 tires on your car one is bald and causing alot of trouble, an accident and maybe death, what do you do??? throw it out!!!. I don't understand what is so hard about getting rid of the bad element. Humans as a whole need to help themselfs and when a bad egg is born we need to scramble it. When we kill a prisoner it has nothing to do with hate, we are just trying to clean up our own world.