Because a group of men were speaking in...GASP!...Arabic.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070829-1223-bn29plane.html

Wow...we're that paranoid of foreigners that they cant even argue in their native language?

Wow...we're that paranoid of foreigners that they cant even argue in their native language?


No, we're not that paranoid concerning foreigners. We are that paranoid, and rightfully so, of Arabic speaking people. Had the six been arguing in German, Italian or Greek there would not have been the same level of fear.

So stupid. People don't even use their heads. If these men were terrorists they wouldn't be drawing attention to themselves by arguing beforehand.

Around 200-400 million people speak Arabic as their primary language. It's pretty silly to get worked up if someone on your plane is speaking it.

Actually it isn't all that silly. There is a far greater chance of a plane being hijacked or blown up by an Arabic speaking person than be a non-Arabic speaking person. While there are terrorists who are not Arabic and not Muslim there is a greater probability that a modern day terrorist will be one or the other.

This distrust of Muslims and Arabic speaking people did not develop in a vacume. It is based not only on the events of 9/11 but also on the prior bombing of the World Trade Center, the attack on the USS Cole, the blowing up of the Marine barracks, the destruction of the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the Lockerbie incident, Leon Klinghoffer, Richard Reed, Entebbe, the Moscow theater, and a host of other terrorists actions by either Muslims or Arabic speaking people.

Actually it isn't all that silly. There is a far greater chance of a plane being hijacked or blown up by an Arabic speaking person than be a non-Arabic speaking person.
The vast majority of serial killers in the United States speak English. Should we run in fear at any English-speaking person buying a gun?
While there are terrorists who are not Arabic and not Muslim there is a greater probability that a modern day terrorist will be one or the other.
And by instilling terror in us when none should exist, I'd say they've done their job, no?
This distrust of Muslims and Arabic speaking people did not develop in a vacume.
Nor did it develop in a vacuum.
It is based not only on the events of 9/11 but also on the prior bombing of the World Trade Center, the attack on the USS Cole, the blowing up of the Marine barracks, the destruction of the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the Lockerbie incident, Leon Klinghoffer, Richard Reed, Entebbe, the Moscow theater, and a host of other terrorists actions by either Muslims or Arabic speaking people.
And what percentage of Muslims living in the United States would you say are terrorists? 0.1%? 0.01%?

Since when are terrorists going to draw any unwanted attention to themselves?

The vast majority of serial killers in the United States speak English. Should we run in fear at any English-speaking person buying a gun?

No but we should fear English speaking people who fit the profile of a serial killer.

And by instilling terror in us when none should exist, I'd say they've done their job, no?

It is not terror but concern. There is a difference.

Nor did it develop in a vacuum.

Thank you spelling policeman. I guess if you can't refute the argument you can always comment on the spelling.

And what percentage of Muslims living in the United States would you say are terrorists? 0.1%? 0.01%?

It is not what percentage of Muslims living in the United States are terrorists but what percentage of terrorists are Muslims.

We are that paranoid, and rightfully so, of Arabic speaking people.

Rightfully paranoid? Is that possible?

No but we should fear English speaking people who fit the profile of a serial killer.
So what is the profile of a radical Islamic terrorist?
It is not terror but concern. There is a difference.
There is a fine line.
Thank you spelling policeman. I guess if you can't refute the argument you can always comment on the spelling.
You being pissed off at yourself for a misspelling does not mean you should shoot the messenger. I freely admit that my correction was not germane to the discussion, but you easily could have ignored it.

And by the way...I am refuting your arguments.
It is not what percentage of Muslims living in the United States are terrorists but what percentage of terrorists are Muslims.
That's illogical to the extreme. What percentage of Muslims are terrorists is a far more useful statistic than what percentage of terrorists are Muslims in identifying terrorists. Because even if 100% of terrorists ever were Muslim, if only 0.01% (1 in 10,000) of Muslims are terrorists, then there is no reason to be concerned about an average-looking Islamic guy.

Rightfully paranoid? Is that possible?

Yes it is. Just being paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Help! Help! The paranoids are after me!

You being pissed off at yourself for a misspelling does not mean you should shoot the messenger. I freely admit that my correction was not germane to the discussion, but you easily could have ignored it.

Who said I was pissed off? I merely made an observation that rather than refute my position you spent time correcting my spelling. As for my easily ignoring it, the same can be said for you. You could just as easily have ignored it since it did not affect or alter the gist of my post and even you admit it wasn't germane to the discussion. However you chose to make my spelling error part of the discussion as if it had some bearing on it.

Who said I was pissed off? I merely made an observation that rather than refute my position you spent time correcting my spelling. As for my easily ignoring it, the same can be said for you. You could just as easily have ignored it since it did not affect or alter the gist of my post and even you admit it wasn't germane to the discussion. However you chose to make my spelling error part of the discussion as if it had some bearing on it.
So you ignored the gist of my post to make this post. And I'm the one being irrelevant?

Yes it is. Just being paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Very humorous, but actually "paranoia" excludes the possibility that your fears are reasonable.


par·a·noi·a –noun

1. Psychiatry. a mental disorder characterized by systematized delusions and the projection of personal conflicts, which are ascribed to the supposed hostility of others, sometimes progressing to disturbances of consciousness and aggressive acts believed to be performed in self-defense or as a mission.

2. baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others.

If you use definition #2, your fears are either "baseless" or "excessive". In either case they aren't a reasonable reaction.

Sorry, Borg but there was very little gist in your post to which I could respond.

So what is the profile of a radical Islamic terrorist?

A big part of the profile of an Islamic terrorists is being Islamic. I don't know of any Islamic terrorists who are not Islamic. I didn't say the men were terrorists. I said there was a reason pearly are leery of Muslims and people speaking Arabic.

There is a fine line.

The line is not all that fine. I am concerned that I might have a reoccurence of my cancer. I am not in terror of that possibility.

You being pissed off at yourself for a misspelling does not mean you should shoot the messenger. I freely admit that my correction was not germane to the discussion, but you easily could have ignored it.

This was a big part of your post and you seemed to think it important enough to include but somehow not important enough for me to respond to.

That's illogical to the extreme. What percentage of Muslims are terrorists is a far more useful statistic than what percentage of terrorists are Muslims in identifying terrorists. Because even if 100% of terrorists ever were Muslim, if only 0.01% (1 in 10,000) of Muslims are terrorists, then there is no reason to be concerned about an average-looking Islamic guy.

It is no more illogical than your statistics. If almost all terrorists come from a particular group it is logical to be more concerned about members of that group than members of the general population.

It is no more illogical than your statistics. If almost all terrorists come from a particular group it is logical to be more concerned about members of that group than members of the general population.
See, here's the thing. There's legitimate concern, and then there's unwarranted concern. If the odds are so long, why would someone be so concerned as to leave the plane and delay everyone on it for a day, causing great expense? That's unwarranted, especially as these guys passed the ridiculous security at the airport.

It is no more illogical than your statistics. If almost all terrorists come from a particular group it is logical to be more concerned about members of that group than members of the general population.
Let's say the probability that an Arab on your flight is a terrorist is .000001%, while the probability of a white person being a terrorist is .00000001%. The Arab might be 100 times more likely to be a terrorist, but it's still a very low probability and nothing that should cause fear.

See, here's the thing. There's legitimate concern, and then there's unwarranted concern. If the odds are so long, why would someone be so concerned as to leave the plane and delay everyone on it for a day, causing great expense? That's unwarranted, especially as these guys passed the ridiculous security at the airport.

See, here's the other thing, who is to decide whether the person you called a moron had legitimate concerns or unwarranted concerns. The other group of Moslems that caused a plane to be delayed also passed the ridiculous security at the airport. Why should someone accept what you yourself have called ridiculous security. I probably would not have caused the planed to be delayed had it been up to me but it wasn't up to me it was up to someone who was where neither you nor I was, at the airport.

Jester,

What doesn't cause fear in you, or me or Borg quite obviously caused fear in a fellow passenger and enough fear in the pilots that they turned the plane around and taxied back to the gate. None of us knows exactly what went on at the airport. Was it just people speaking Arabic? Was there more to it.

enough fear in the pilots that they turned the plane around and taxied back to the gate.
The pilots returned to drop off the passenger who wanted off.

They returned. That is the bottom line. If I want to get off the plane the plane will not simply turn around without a reason.

The pilots returned to drop off the passenger who wanted off.
i would have been one of them. i have enough problems zinging thru the air in a tin can built with parts from he low bidder, driven by some drunk, and directed from the ground by some guy working a double because the FAA can't read a calendar either, without some 3rd world loser with a box cutter thinking he's going to Hef's Heaven by putting the afore mentioned tin can into the side of an office building. that's just the straw that breaks the camel's back, thank you very much.:mad:

i would have been one of them. i have enough problems zinging thru the air in a tin can built with parts from he low bidder, driven by some drunk, and directed from the ground by some guy working a double because the FAA can't read a calendar either, without some 3rd world loser with a box cutter thinking he's going to Hef's Heaven by putting the afore mentioned tin can into the side of an office building. that's just the straw that breaks the camel's back, thank you very much.:mad:
But you have no problem driving, I'm sure. Even though driving is far, far, far more dangerous than flying.

I have no problem flying. I'm flying in a littme more than a week and then I'm flying to Europe in six weeks. My wife, kids and I fly all the time. The fact that I am not afraid of flying doesn't mean others aren't afraid and the fact that I don't really worry about Arab terrorists doesn't mean others don't.

But you have no problem driving, I'm sure. Even though driving is far, far, far more dangerous than flying.
when i'm driving, i'm in control of at least my actions...i have trouble with others driving too...and they go nowhere near 750 mph either.

when i'm driving, i'm in control of at least my actions
Sure, over your actions. Doesn't stop some loser or granny from running a red and T-boning you.

I love flying. And I feel much safer doing so than I do driving.

Sure, over your actions. Doesn't stop some loser or granny from running a red and T-boning you.

I love flying. And I feel much safer doing so than I do driving.
but i'll never be vaporized by becoming one with a landmark skyscraper in a GMC.

(unless Dateline NBC has something to do with it)

No but we should fear English speaking people who fit the profile of a serial killer.


So the profile of a Muslim terrorist is one that speaks Arabic? This is what you are saying.

but i'll never be vaporized by becoming one with a landmark skyscraper in a GMC.

(unless Dateline NBC has something to do with it)
And the odds are greatly in your favor when flying. You have a better chance of winning the lottery than you do of dying on a plane.

They returned. That is the bottom line. If I want to get off the plane the plane will not simply turn around without a reason.


Um,I'm not so sure about dat.
Maybe If you were to stress to the nice Flight Attendant
just Who yer rusjing back home to post to... Notably
this Vile Mod dude or even a Borg guy,the plane meisters
mite certainly rush yer order thru.

And the odds are greatly in your favor when flying. You have a better chance of winning the lottery than you do of dying on a plane.
did 2,749 ppl win a lottery jackpot in 2001?

Wow, nice...
So I really should stop talking in Arabic now? I wonder how my grandmother will understand English...

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: This terror threat is way overblown.
People need to chill! These Arab men wouldn't have been allowed inside the plane before being frisked! Yes, frisk searched because they're Arabs! Security procedures would make sure they wouldn't cause a threat.

Wow, nice...
So I really should stop talking in Arabic now? I wonder how my grandmother will understand English...

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: This terror threat is way overblown.
People need to chill! These Arab men wouldn't have been allowed inside the plane before being frisked! Yes, frisk searched because they're Arabs! Security procedures would make sure they wouldn't cause a threat.


You can play the victim all you want, Innocent Sweety but it wasn't English speaking pilots who flew planes into some Arab buildings killing thousands. It was Arabic speaking men who flew planes into the World Trade Center.

I don't care what language you speak, especially in your own country but when a bunch of men are in an American airport speaking Arabic they are going to be the subjects of passenger scrutiny.

You are also wrong about the men being frisked by American security. Unlike some countries we don't use racial profiling. The liberals in our country see to that.

You can play the victim all you want, Innocent Sweety but it wasn't English speaking pilots who flew planes into some Arab buildings killing thousands. It was Arabic speaking men who flew planes into the World Trade Center.

It wasn't an Arabic speaking man who blew up Oklahoma City.

I don't care what language you speak, especially in your own country but when a bunch of men are in an American airport speaking Arabic they are going to be the subjects of passenger scrutiny.

You are also wrong about the men being frisked by American security. Unlike some countries we don't use racial profiling. The liberals in our country see to that.

Will you look at that quote and please tell me that the contradiction isn't blindingly obvious?

I know people personally who have been frisked by American airport security just for being Arabic. And what is that supposed to mean "unlike some countries we don't use racial profiling"? Racism exists everywhere but there isn't a country that makes such a big issue out of it like the United States.

...the odds of dying in a car crash in 2001 were 1:19,075, whereas those of going to one's reward as a result of an airline disaster were only 1:310,560. This means that driving an automobile on a given day is sixteen times riskier, in the pure sense of the word, than flying on an airliner. Again, the "common sense" method of risk analysis is simply wrong based on real-world data. This may be of little consolation to someone who loses a relative or friend in an airline accident, but the numbers don't lie.

Taken from this link... http://www.criticalenquiry.org/theory/risk.shtml but there are 1000's of sites with the same kind of stats.

This includes stats after 9/11 so maybe we just need to see some things in a more black and white way. That can help calm fears. The thing is though, fear is not always able to be controlled in a rational way since it is a chemically induced.

It wasn't an Arabic speaking man who blew up Oklahoma City.



Will you look at that quote and please tell me that the contradiction isn't blindingly obvious?

I know people personally who have been frisked by American airport security just for being Arabic. And what is that supposed to mean "unlike some countries we don't use racial profiling"? Racism exists everywhere but there isn't a country that makes such a big issue out of it like the United States.
i haven't been thru airport security since 9/11 without being pulled off to the side for the extra pat down. being a white male, traveling alone on a ticket purchased at the last minute by a third party,with little or no checked luggage it makes me feel a little better that they are paying attention at the check point...but having been the frisk-er in the past, i'm a little distressed at how ineffective they are at it.

i haven't been thru airport security since 9/11 without being pulled off to the side for the extra pat down. being a white male, traveling alone on a ticket purchased at the last minute by a third party,with little or no checked luggage it makes me feel a little better that they are paying attention at the check point...but having been the frisk-er in the past, i'm a little distressed at how ineffective they are at it.

Maybe to a white male they're a bit ineffective but they sure treat Muslims/Arabs differently.

When were you last in an American airport, Innocent Sweety? Arabs are not subjected to a different or more rigorous search than other passengers. That would be racial profiling and the liberals in the U.S. have declared racial profiling to be a no-no.

If Muslims and Arab speaking people do not want others to look askance at them perhaps they should be a bit more vocal in their deploring of terrorism. So long as they are quiet is how long I will be wary of Arab or Muslim travelers.

Here in America, we haven't had a plane hijacked since 9/11. For the sake of rounding, I'm going to make that an even 6 years since a plane has been hijacked. There is an average of 28,537 commerical flights per day in America. (http://www.natca.org/mediacenter/bythenumbers.msp)

28,537 flights x 2190 days (365 days x 6 years) = 62,496,030 flights without a hijacking.

Fear of your airplane being hijacked is completely irrational.

When were you last in an American airport, Innocent Sweety? Arabs are not subjected to a different or more rigorous search than other passengers. That would be racial profiling and the liberals in the U.S. have declared racial profiling to be a no-no.

If Muslims and Arab speaking people do not want others to look askance at them perhaps they should be a bit more vocal in their deploring of terrorism. So long as they are quiet is how long I will be wary of Arab or Muslim travelers.

Do I need to be in an American airport and be humiliated for the sake of this argument? Isn't it enough that I know for a fact that people from my own country, the UAE, have been held for over 48 hours in a tiny cubicle with no food offered nor allowed to sleep with small children in tow and been subjected to numerous unnecessary questions such as, "Why does your child have a cast on his arm? And why did you take him to the American hospital in Dubai to be treated? Why the American hospital in particular?"
And then when finally let them out, they make them sign a paper that says that they treated them well and gave them the opportunity to make a phone call and threaten not to let them leave without signing that paper.

I'll say it again: Your posts are obviously contradicting.
"There's no racial profiling in the states but, oh, if you speak in Arabic we're gonna delay a flight cause OH MY GOD that language!"

Here in America, we haven't had a plane hijacked since 9/11. For the sake of rounding, I'm going to make that an even 6 years since a plane has been hijacked. There is an average of 28,537 commerical flights per day in America. (http://www.natca.org/mediacenter/bythenumbers.msp)

28,537 flights x 2190 days (365 days x 6 years) = 62,496,030 flights without a hijacking.

Fear of your airplane being hijacked is completely irrational.

Why do I get the feeling that someone will reply to your post saying... YES the reason that no more hijacking happened is cause of the increased security measures which do no racial profiling but actually do racial profiling.

I completely agree with you btw

When were you last in an American airport, Innocent Sweety? Arabs are not subjected to a different or more rigorous search than other passengers.True. Three of my children flew this summer and the security measures are blind to race, color, language, religion, etc.
That would be racial profiling and the liberals in the U.S. have declared racial profiling to be a no-no.Or, more acurately, the law has made it a no-no.

If Muslims and Arab speaking people do not want others to look askance at them perhaps they should be a bit more vocal in their deploring of terrorism. So long as they are quiet is how long I will be wary of Arab or Muslim travelers.This is the main point, I believe. Until the Arabic/Islamic community does something to make the everage Joe believe that the terrorist/extremist is a loathed minority, any reasonable person putting two little girls on an airplane as unescorted minors (as I did) has ever right to be leery.

Clean up your own house before asking the rest of us to ignore the smell.

[color=firebrick]Why do I get the feeling that someone will reply to your post saying... YES the reason that no more hijacking happened is cause of the increased security measures which do no racial profiling but actually do racial profiling.
Increased security, yes. Threat assessment, yes. Profiling based on race, no.

Why do I get the feeling that someone will reply to your post saying... YES the reason that no more hijacking happened is cause of the increased security measures which do no racial profiling but actually do racial profiling.

I completely agree with you btw

Even if one plane is hijacked everyday before 9/11 (obviously the actual number is no where near once a day) that's a .0035% chance of your flight being hijacked.

It's completely unreasonable; I'm probably in greater danger walking on a sidewalk than I am flying in an airplane.

Increased security, yes. Threat assessment, yes. Profiling based on race, no.

Did you not read my post with the story of the people held for 48 hours for being Arabs?

Until the Arabic/Islamic community does something to make the everage Joe believe that the terrorist/extremist is a loathed minority, any reasonable person putting two little girls on an airplane as unescorted minors (as I did) has ever right to be leery.


Please be specific. Exactly what is it that you want the community to do? What is this "something"?

Even if one plane is hijacked everyday before 9/11 (obviously the actual number is no where near once a day) that's a .0035% chance of your flight being hijacked.

It's completely unreasonable; I'm probably in greater danger walking on a sidewalk than I am flying in an airplane.

I absolutely agree.

[color=firebrick]...subjected to numerous unnecessary questions such as, "Why does your child have a cast on his arm? My daughter, a poster child white American ballet dancer, was sent through secondary screening because she had a cast on her laft arm just this summer, while flying fron Houston to San Fransisco.

You make a mistake if you belive the sole consideration is race. Anyone who attracts attention to themselves in an airport these days gets scrutinized, whether they're hollering in Arabic or English, or any other language. Airports are not the place to play around.

As for the reaction to Arabic "looking" or "sounding" people, one must realize that worry (or fear) is not a rational issue. If you had a bridge collapse under you, it would be quite normal to expect that you'd get awfully uneasy every time you crossed a bridge. A woman who suffers a rape is likely to mistrust men in similar situations.

Everyday we hear of bombings in Iraq, where Arabic is spoken, and the targets are often other Arabic speakers. Violent attack has not been disavowed in the Arabic speaking world. So why would you expect Americans to not be concerned when they have been attacked through airports? It is not "racial" profiling, but is rather "behavioral" profiling. Or, in other words, a reasonable threat assessment.

Read my posts on a range of issues and you'll find that I am quite liberal on most of them. But in this matter, until people who look like thugs stop acting like thugs, people are normal to be worried and proactive in intervening when they see thugish conduct.

Please be specific. Exactly what is it that you want the community to do? What is this "something"?Stop protecting killers based on traditional ideas of hospitality. Stop funding killers. Stop with calling for the destruction of people based on race (Jews) or nationality (US) or religion (anyone who is not of the right sect.) Stop stoning young girls. Stop allowing thugs to hide in your communities. Do something about this so-called minority of extremists. Stop flocking to mosques where open violence is preached.

Or at least stop complaining when other parts of the world are damn cautious around you.

As for the reaction to Arabic "looking" or "sounding" people, one must realize that worry (or fear) is not a rational issue. If you had a bridge collapse under you, it would be quite normal to expect that you'd get awfully uneasy every time you crossed a bridge. A woman who suffers a rape is likely to mistrust men in similar situations.

There's a big difference between understanding why they have the fear and if the fear is warranted. In this case, it simply wasn't.

There's a big difference between understanding why they have the fear and if the fear is warranted. In this case, it simply wasn't.I disagree. You sqabble in an airport, looking aggressive and speaking the language of the people sworn to kill Americans, you oughta know what's coming.

I go through the airport, in uniform, with my ID, and I still get searched. You think Arabic people and old ladies arent going to get searched?

I go through the airport, in uniform, with my ID, and I still get searched. You think Arabic people and old ladies arent going to get searched?Have a bunch of Middle East stamps in tour passport and wath them freak! I know this first hand, and I look as "American" as humanly possible.

I disagree. You sqabble in an airport, looking aggressive and speaking the language of the people sworn to kill Americans, you oughta know what's coming.

Speaking the language of people sworn to kill Americans? Are you kidding me? I bet the majority of Americans wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Arabic, Farsi, Urdu, Hebrew.

Stop protecting killers based on traditional ideas of hospitality. Stop funding killers. Stop with calling for the destruction of people based on race (Jews) or nationality (US) or religion (anyone who is not of the right sect.) Stop stoning young girls. Stop allowing thugs to hide in your communities. Do something about this so-called minority of extremists. Stop flocking to mosques where open violence is preached.

Or at least stop complaining when other parts of the world are damn cautious around you.

It's OK for Americans to be afraid of Arabs in airports when we haven't had a hijacking in over 60 million flights and yet you want Arabs to take a stand against terrorists when they actually live with them? Suicide bombings occur semi-frequently in some places around the world; are Arabs not allowed to be afraid?

At least their fears have a little more basis in reality.

It's OK for Americans to be afraid of Arabs in airports when we haven't had a hijacking in over 60 million flights and yet you want Arabs to take a stand against terrorists when they actually live with them? Suicide bombings occur semi-frequently in some places around the world; are Arabs not allowed to be afraid?

At least their fears have a little more basis in reality.You bet they have a right to be afraid. Because of this they should understand the US reaction and stop bitching about it. The point is: No one can change the impression of the Muslim culture except Muslims. Until they do something about it, why expect everyone else to play like it's not a problem?

You bet they have a right to be afraid. Because of this they should understand the US reaction and stop bitching about it. The point is: No one can change the impression of the Muslim culture except Muslims. Until they do something about it, why expect everyone else to play like it's not a problem?

...They have a right to be afraid because it's a reality they live with. We don't have a terrorist population in the United States that strap bombs to themselves and blow up in crowded public areas.

It's like Ohioans being afraid of hurricanes after Katrina.

Stop protecting killers based on traditional ideas of hospitality. Stop funding killers. Stop with calling for the destruction of people based on race (Jews) or nationality (US) or religion (anyone who is not of the right sect.) Stop stoning young girls. Stop allowing thugs to hide in your communities. Do something about this so-called minority of extremists. Stop flocking to mosques where open violence is preached.

Or at least stop complaining when other parts of the world are damn cautious around you.
You're bunching all Muslims together here. How is, say, a Muslim college student living in suburban Cleveland supposed to do any of this? Afterall, he's the one who's going to profiled at US airports, not the guy in Pakistan who stoned his daughter to death.

I'll admit that I bunch all Muslims together and I will continue bunching them all together until the Muslim community does something to cause me to change. I cannot tell the difference between a Muslim college student and a Muslim terrorist and I doubt anyone else can. When the Muslim college students and the Muslim doctors and the Muslim clerics start denouncing the Muslim terrorists I may start trusting them more. Until that time I am sorry but I will continue to look at them with a slightly jaundiced eye.

Remember it was Muslim doctors who wanted to kill innocent people in Great Britain, not wild eyed terrorists.

Do I need to be in an American airport and be humiliated for the sake of this argument? Isn't it enough that I know for a fact that people from my own country, the UAE, have been held for over 48 hours in a tiny cubicle with no food offered nor allowed to sleep with small children in tow and been subjected to numerous unnecessary questions such as, "Why does your child have a cast on his arm? And why did you take him to the American hospital in Dubai to be treated? Why the American hospital in particular?"
And then when finally let them out, they make them sign a paper that says that they treated them well and gave them the opportunity to make a phone call and threaten not to let them leave without signing that paper.



and where did this happen, and how did you learn of it?

Remember it was Muslim doctors who wanted to kill innocent people in Great Britain, not wild eyed terrorists.
and that lil episode proves that just because you went to school for 7 years doesn't mean you can put a effective bomb together:rolleyes:

I'll admit that I bunch all Muslims together and I will continue bunching them all together until the Muslim community does something to cause me to change. I cannot tell the difference between a Muslim college student and a Muslim terrorist and I doubt anyone else can.

They'll always be Muslim; their looks won't change. What can they realistically do to change your perception?

They'll always be Muslim; their looks won't change. What can they realistically do to change your perception?
Arab, Black or Asian...and the odd Caucasian convert?...but it's the Arab Muslim's that get the press coverage.

Brain fart; shoulda said Arab.

Brain fart; shoulda said Arab.
can you really tell the difference between the odd Arab and anyone from New Jersey who vacations in Florida if they dress alike?

You're bunching all Muslims together here. How is, say, a Muslim college student living in suburban Cleveland supposed to do any of this? Afterall, he's the one who's going to profiled at US airports, not the guy in Pakistan who stoned his daughter to death.We're talking about the Muslin/Arab responsibility for changing the image of their own demographics. Don't forget, it was nice Ara/Muslim flight-school students who caused so much trouble.

I am not, btw, saying any of this is ideal, just reality. And there is nothing any of us will do to change that by whining about how unfair it is. Perception is what it is, until somebody changes it.

Speaking the language of people sworn to kill Americans? Are you kidding me? I bet the majority of Americans wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Arabic, Farsi, Urdu, Hebrew.So how many stories do you hear about people getting pulled over in the airport for speaking Urdu in a hostile manner?

They'll always be Muslim; their looks won't change. What can they realistically do to change your perception?The Muslim world must make a strong stand against the sorts of ridiculous things these extremists do. Then they will begin to be seen as the minority that they are. Silence/innaction from the so-called reasonable majority is seen (psychologically) as tacit approval.

Brain fart; shoulda said Arab.
http://www.nickadamsweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/negrofrowns.jpg

They'll always be Muslim; their looks won't change. What can they realistically do to change your perception?


They can denounce the terrorists. They can see that their fellow Muslims stop stoning young girls. They can see that their fellow Muslims stop killing people because they are gay. They can stop calling for the death of Jews. That is just for starters.

See #47 for agreement.

We're talking about the Muslin/Arab responsibility for changing the image of their own demographics.
My point is that an Arab-American frat boy at Rutgers is hardly in the same demographic as a date farmer in a little village in Iraq. To say that he should have to answer for the fucked up stuff that happens in the Middle East is ridiculous.

Then there are all the people who aren't Muslim at all but just happen to have a similar skin-tone to Arab Muslims, eg. Jews, Hindus, and non-Muslim Arabs. Are they supposed to be responsible for the image of a demographic that they have absolutely nothing to do with?

I am not, btw, saying any of this is ideal, just reality. And there is nothing any of us will do to change that by whining about how unfair it is. Perception is what it is, until somebody changes it.So if someone has an incorrect perception about a group of people, it's upto that group of people to change that perception? You don't think the person with the incorrect perception should bear the burden of educating himself? Or would you prefer that he remain ignorant?

Stop protecting killers based on traditional ideas of hospitality. Stop funding killers.

One of your best friends used to do this (KSA) but then stopped. Even while they were still doin it no one said anything.
Anyway, it doesn't happen.

Stop with calling for the destruction of people based on race (Jews) or nationality (US) or religion (anyone who is not of the right sect.)

I believe the Palestinian Intifada and terrorist attacks are independent actions. I also believe that to understand the conflict you must understand the Arab's anger. It seems to most of them after the 6 day war that they were thrown out of their houses, given smaller areas to live in, and that those people who were given their rightful areas are funded by the biggest nation in this country.
You're telling me that after this treatment and the continuous humiliation and bad treatment they get from Israeli's on a daily basis, they should sit back, have a Diet Coke and watch TV while at the same time, watching a family member dragged out of the house, handcuffed, and taken to prison for no real reason?

Stop stoning young girls.

This is part of Sharia.
Acts that are common in the West such as drinking, non-marital sex and homosexual relations are in fact the highest sins in the Abrahamic religions, and extremely punished by the Islamic religion. In fundamental nations this is impossible.

You might think that stoning to death is very extreme, but really, imagine yourself in the middle of a crowd watching a boy being stoned to death for having a homosexual relation (when he, in fact, had the choice of having a sex-change operation to satisfy his sexual needs). Would you do what he did? It seems extreme to many but really, fear is the biggest factor that stops people from doing things.

I do have a question for you though... How is stoning someone in a remote nation far, far away from the states related to terrorism?

Stop allowing thugs to hide in your communities.

They aren't allowed. Any person who casts some doubts is sent to the proper authorities.

Do something about this so-called minority of extremists.

I think this is what I wanted you to tell me from the beginning. Do specify this "something" please. As far as I know, Muslim nations have changed the Islamic curriculum to take out anything that could seem violent. Extremists are stopped and not encouraged. They are also reported to the proper authorities.
What else should be done?

Stop flocking to mosques where open violence is preached.

That's like telling Catholics to stop flocking to church's? I doubt any strong Muslim would convert from his or her faith. Mosque's are pivotal and Friday prayers have to be prayed in the mosque for men.
Most Friday speech's are reviewed by Islamic committee's to make sure that no violence is present. There always is, however, the prayer that Imam's say which include things like "May God help Muslims all around the world, especially against Zionists, May God aid us to victory etc."
Don't the Jewish Rabbi's or Christian Pope's say similar things but exchange the word Muslim for "Jews" or "Christians" and probably take out "Zionists" and say "Muslims" instead?
It's a prayer, not a call for fighting.

I'll admit that I bunch all Muslims together and I will continue bunching them all together until the Muslim community does something to cause me to change. I cannot tell the difference between a Muslim college student and a Muslim terrorist and I doubt anyone else can. When the Muslim college students and the Muslim doctors and the Muslim clerics start denouncing the Muslim terrorists I may start trusting them more. Until that time I am sorry but I will continue to look at them with a slightly jaundiced eye.

How about not looking at them with a jaundiced eye and instead making the effort to educate yourself in order to be able to tell the difference?

And what is it that will cause you to change?

and where did this happen, and how did you learn of it?

In an airport in the states. I know the people it happened to personally.
This is just an example, btw, I know of many other stories.

So how many stories do you hear about people getting pulled over in the airport for speaking Urdu in a hostile manner?

There was a story of Pakistani students who were pulled over in a British airport for speaking Urdu.
googs and I might be able to tell the difference between the languages as we speak Arabic, but how many airport officials will be able to tell the difference between these languages? Can you?
Hebrew sounds so much like Arabic btw, many of their words are the same words used in Arabic, too.
Language isn't really something that officials can count on to make an arrest, especially when they can't tell the difference.

The Muslim world must make a strong stand against the sorts of ridiculous things these extremists do.

Such as...?[/quote]

They can denounce the terrorists. They can see that their fellow Muslims stop stoning young girls. They can see that their fellow Muslims stop killing people because they are gay. They can stop calling for the death of Jews. That is just for starters.

[color=firebrick]Shilohproject already said the same thing and I replied to him above. Please look at it.

Hey, IS

I'm back in dubai...just saying hi!

Welcome back from your summer vacation MeskDXB! The only thing I didn't miss about Dubai is the extreme heat, hehehe

One of your best friends used to do this (KSA) but then stopped. Even while they were still doin it no one said anything.
Anyway, it doesn't happen.


You say it doesn't happen but you are wrong. It does happen. The terrorists are protected by the people. The Saudi Arabian government does fund Islamic schools around the world that teach intolerance and religious hatred.



I believe the Palestinian Intifada and terrorist attacks are independent actions. I also believe that to understand the conflict you must understand the Arab's anger. It seems to most of them after the 6 day war that they were thrown out of their houses, given smaller areas to live in, and that those people who were given their rightful areas are funded by the biggest nation in this country.
You're telling me that after this treatment and the continuous humiliation and bad treatment they get from Israeli's on a daily basis, they should sit back, have a Diet Coke and watch TV while at the same time, watching a family member dragged out of the house, handcuffed, and taken to prison for no real reason?

It is not only Palestinians calling for the destruction of Israel and the United States. It was not only Palestinians who cheered and danced in the streets when the World Trade Center was destroyed. Hatred of Jews and Christians is found among most of the Arab and Muslim population. It was Muslims in Indonesia, not Palestine who killed their Christian neighbors.


This is part of Sharia.
Acts that are common in the West such as drinking, non-marital sex and homosexual relations are in fact the highest sins in the Abrahamic religions, and extremely punished by the Islamic religion. In fundamental nations this is impossible.

You might think that stoning to death is very extreme, but really, imagine yourself in the middle of a crowd watching a boy being stoned to death for having a homosexual relation (when he, in fact, had the choice of having a sex-change operation to satisfy his sexual needs). Would you do what he did? It seems extreme to many but really, fear is the biggest factor that stops people from doing things.

I do have a question for you though... How is stoning someone in a remote nation far, far away from the states related to terrorism?



Excusing unbelievably violent acts because they are part of medieval religious law is actually no excuse. That is like saying it is okay to lynch black people because we have a tradition of doing that in the rural South.

What you are excusing and condoning is killing people for private acts that affect them and no one else. It is also unbelievably arrogant to say it is okay to stone a homosexual to death because he didn't take your advice and have a sex change. What right do you or your Muslim coreligionists have to kill someone for private behavior that harms no one? I like your rationalization. We stone them to death because it scares other people who might want to have a drink or who happen to be homosexual.

Stoning someone in a remote country has an effect on our views of Muslim and Arab terrorists because it shows the mindset of the people involved. Muslims and Arabs have little if any regard for private rights and believe the penalty for committing personal acts is stoning to death. You kill you own people for personal habits and have publically stated that Sharia should be the rule world wide. If you had the power and the ability you would also stone people in our country who drank and would kill our homosexual population.

They aren't allowed. Any person who casts some doubts is sent to the proper authorities.

That is simply not true. Terrorists are often found living among the general population and they are not turned in to the authorities even when there is not only some doubt but when they are known to be terrorists.


I think this is what I wanted you to tell me from the beginning. Do specify this "something" please. As far as I know, Muslim nations have changed the Islamic curriculum to take out anything that could seem violent. Extremists are stopped and not encouraged. They are also reported to the proper authorities.
What else should be done?

Muslim nations have not changed the curriculum in schools. Text books still contain pictures of hook nosed Jews killing innocent Muslim chilldren. Textbooks still call for the destruction of Israel. There was recently a television program in Palestine in which a cartoon like mouse taught young children to hate and kill Jews. The characted was beaten to death by Jews and replaced by another cartoon like character also teaching young children to hate and kill Jews. The Saudi government funds schools worldwide that teach school childern to hate and kill.



That's like telling Catholics to stop flocking to church's? I doubt any strong Muslim would convert from his or her faith. Mosque's are pivotal and Friday prayers have to be prayed in the mosque for men.
Most Friday speech's are reviewed by Islamic committee's to make sure that no violence is present. There always is, however, the prayer that Imam's say which include things like "May God help Muslims all around the world, especially against Zionists, May God aid us to victory etc."
Don't the Jewish Rabbi's or Christian Pope's say similar things but exchange the word Muslim for "Jews" or "Christians" and probably take out "Zionists" and say "Muslims" instead?
It's a prayer, not a call for fighting.

No, it is not like tell Roman Catholics to stop flocking to churches. No one is saying Muslems should not pray or go to mosque. They are saying they should not go to mosque that teach racial and religious hatred and that tell people to kill those who don't conform to some rigid set of religious and social standards. If the Pope said, "Go out and kill Muslims", you statement would have some validity but since he hasn't said that your statement has no validity.

Christians do not have prayers that ask for help in destroying Muslims. Christians have prayers of love, not prayers of hatred. It is not simply a prayer the Imams are reciting. It is a call for racial and religious hatred and a call to kill.


How about not looking at them with a jaundiced eye and instead making the effort to educate yourself in order to be able to tell the difference?

And what is it that will cause you to change?

How about not teaching racial and religious hatred. How about not funding schools that teach such hatred. How about not killing people for personal behavior that affects no one but the person. How about not sheltering terrorists. How about not using mosques to preach death to infidels.

Change the way Muslims preach and act and I will change the way I view them.


In an airport in the states. I know the people it happened to personally.
This is just an example, btw, I know of many other stories.

Sorry, but I simply do not believe that any family was held in a room for forty eight hours without food, etc.. It simply isn't done in this country and if by some unbelievable chance it had been done it would have been reported. Unlike most Muslim countries we in America have a free press.


There was a story of Pakistani students who were pulled over in a British airport for speaking Urdu.
googs and I might be able to tell the difference between the languages as we speak Arabic, but how many airport officials will be able to tell the difference between these languages? Can you?
Hebrew sounds so much like Arabic btw, many of their words are the same words used in Arabic, too.
Language isn't really something that officials can count on to make an arrest, especially when they can't tell the difference.

So some students were pulled over for speaking a foreign language. So what. I have been pulled over at an airport for security searches and I speak English. The fact that they spoke Urdu instead of Arabic doesn't matter since both languages are spoken by Muslims. When the vast majority of people who are attacking your nation are of one religion and one religion only there is a natural tendency to pay closer attention to people who are probably members of that religion.



[color=firebrick]Such as...?

Such as the things that were mentioned; stoning homosexuals, killing people who belong to a different religion or even a different sect of the same religion, funding schools that teach religious and racial hatred, killing Christians in Darfur, keeping Christian slaves in parts of Africa, stoning women who have sex outside marriage, killing young girls who marry the wrong man, blowing up innocent men, women and children.



Shilohproject already said the same thing and I replied to him above. Please look at it.[/QUOTE]


I have looked at it and your reply was simply an apology for unacceptable behavior. As long as Muslims act as they do they will be distrusted by others. You can't expect people to either respect or accept a religion that condones and encourages what the Muslim faith condones and encourages. Saying that most Muslims are peaceful people doesn't hold water when the official policies of the religion are what they are.

Hello Frogger, long time! As you know, it was Ramadan and Eid was yesterday (at least for the Sunni's, Shia's today). Anyway, I haven't forgotten about this post. Please check my replies :)



You say it doesn't happen but you are wrong. It does happen. The terrorists are protected by the people. The Saudi Arabian government does fund Islamic schools around the world that teach intolerance and religious hatred.

How are terrorists protected by "the people"?
What Islamic schools exactly teach intolerance and hatred? If that does exist, then believe me, I am all for abolishing such teachings.



It is not only Palestinians calling for the destruction of Israel and the United States. It was not only Palestinians who cheered and danced in the streets when the WorldTradeCenter was destroyed. Hatred of Jews and Christians is found among most of the Arab and Muslim population. It was Muslims in Indonesia, not Palestine who killed their Christian neighbors.


Ok. That video of Palestinian's cheering and dancing was filmed a long time ago, before the WTC was destroyed. I forgot for which occassion exactly. Someone apparently thought it was a good opportunity as any to increase hatred towards Arabs by showing that video.
Secondly, all Muslims are for the restoration of Palestine. Yes, you heard me right, and I am one of them. I am not, however, for the destruction or annihilation of Jews; nor am I for the destruction of the nation that they live in. This can span into a long debate that would probably have to be discussed in a different thread. You need to understand, Frogger, that people will not "hate" without a good reason. Arabs and Muslims only hate those people who kill their Muslim brothers and sisters for religious reasons, and therefore act in self defense. They do not hate all Jews, nor do they hate all Christians. In fact, they are regarded as believers of the same God, as they all follow the same Abrahamic belief in on way or another. People will only hate people who have treated them in a bad way, and that is what Zionists are doing in Palestine by killing and torturing Palestinians for mostly unjustified reasons. One of the things that will anger Muslims is the glorifying of Israeli murders while Palestinian murders are ignored, which is quite prevalent among Western media.
Muslims in Indonesia who have killed their Christian neighbors have, of course, committed a crime that they should be punished for. What right do they have to kill innocent people based on their faith? This action was, I believe, a result of ignorance from such third-world countries. This is not a case of Islam Frogger, it's ignorance. Such acts happen a lot in many developing countries. Just because they happened to be Muslims who wrongly committed it for religious reasons does not mean that all other Muslims are associated with them as a result. To repeat myself: It's mostly due to ignorance.


Excusing unbelievably violent acts because they are part of medieval religious law is actually no excuse. That is like saying it is okay to lynch black people because we have a tradition of doing that in the rural South.

What you are excusing and condoning is killing people for private acts that affect them and no one else. It is also unbelievably arrogant to say it is okay to stone a homosexual to death because he didn't take your advice and have a sex change. What right do you or your Muslim coreligionists have to kill someone for private behavior that harms no one? I like your rationalization. We stone them to death because it scares other people who might want to have a drink or who happen to be homosexual.

Stoning someone in a remote country has an effect on our views of Muslim and Arab terrorists because it shows the mindset of the people involved. Muslims and Arabs have little if any regard for private rights and believe the penalty for committing personal acts is stoning to death. You kill you own people for personal habits and have publically stated that Sharia should be the rule world wide. If you had the power and the ability you would also stone people in our country who drank and would kill our homosexual population.


I wasn't trying to excuse anything here Frogger. This is a part of Islam that cannot be denied. All Muslims have to go by the book, and the book says this for certain reasons. I can discuss the rationalization behind it more if you like, but I understand why you would think that such punishments are extremely violent.
Unfortunately Frogger, we cannot simply take what we like from the book and leave what we do not like. Are you believing in a religion or half a religion? It's all or nothing.

Keep in mind that during Islamic rule for almost 111 years, only 4 minor thefts occured. Why? Each person had his/her hand cut off after the theft.
You might think it's violence, but you can't deny that it is very effective in organizing society and keeping everyone in check if done in a good manner.

I and my Muslim coreligionists do not have the right to kill someone for "private acts that harm no one". The acts do harm someone, the person doing it and the person receiving it. People who posess set, strict criteria are the only ones allowed to judge such matters, and order punishments. Did you know, for example, that two men have to witness a crime before it is proven?

Arabs and Muslims do have respect for private rights. People can do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't go against the Muslim faith. If you are not a Muslim, then it doesn't matter what you do as long as you abide by the regulations if you're living under Muslim rule.


That is simply not true. Terrorists are often found living among the general population and they are not turned in to the authorities even when there is not only some doubt but when they are known to be terrorists.


Can you prove that statement?


Muslim nations have not changed the curriculum in schools. Text books still contain pictures of hook nosed Jews killing innocent Muslim chilldren. Textbooks still call for the destruction of Israel. There was recently a television program in Palestine in which a cartoon like mouse taught young children to hate and kill Jews. The characted was beaten to death by Jews and replaced by another cartoon like character also teaching young children to hate and kill Jews. The Saudi government funds schools worldwide that teach school childern to hate and kill.


I don't believe that to be true, it might have been an outdated program. But if that's the case, then sure, all what you mentioned shouldn't be done and should be stopped.
I think it's a bit amusing, though, to defend people's freedom of speech when they offend Muslims, but then criticize Muslims for doing the same to others.
Do you think that the US government could agree to a deal where if no one criticized or mistreated Muslims anymore, Muslims would do the same thing towards Americans and Israeli's? I mean, you do know that in the Israeli army they're teached to hate and kill Palestinians and Muslims...

Anyway, so is that all that should be done and no one would attack Muslims in airports anymore? I hardly think so...


No, it is not like tell Roman Catholics to stop flocking to churches. No one is saying Muslems should not pray or go to mosque. They are saying they should not go to mosque that teach racial and religious hatred and that tell people to kill those who don't conform to some rigid set of religious and social standards. If the Pope said, "Go out and kill Muslims", you statement would have some validity but since he hasn't said that your statement has no validity.

Christians do not have prayers that ask for help in destroying Muslims. Christians have prayers of love, not prayers of hatred. It is not simply a prayer the Imams are reciting. It is a call for racial and religious hatred and a call to kill.


In turn, if any Imam had said, "Go out and kill Jews and Christians" then your statement would have had some validity, but since he hasn't your statement has no validity either.
Muslims do not have prayers of hatred, they only have prayers asking God to aid Muslims to victory against all enemies (enemies being people who attack Islam ONLY - not those of different faiths as you might like to think). Your statement is overly exaggerated.


How about not teaching racial and religious hatred. How about not funding schools that teach such hatred. How about not killing people for personal behavior that affects no one but the person. How about not sheltering terrorists. How about not using mosques to preach death to infidels.

Change the way Muslims preach and act and I will change the way I view them.


All what you mentioned is currently happening.
How about, as a crazy thought, making this give and take in order for it to work effectively? How about stopping ordering Muslims to act in certain ways while you don't change your ways at all? How about asking for the change you want and giving back change that is wanted from you in return? Good old barter system ;) works



Sorry, but I simply do not believe that any family was held in a room for forty eight hours without food, etc.. It simply isn't done in this country and if by some unbelievable chance it had been done it would have been reported. Unlike most Muslim countries we in America have a free press.


That last sentence and comment was uncalled for. In your so-called free press nation, no one reported such an incident, yet it has happened.
You can believe it or not, implying that I might be lying to you, but it has, in fact happened. You cannot tell me that you could be so narrow minded as to think that everything outrageous that happens in your nation will be reported to the public, especially if it shows the US as the wrongdoing one. Everyone knows that such cases have happened in the past, and are probably still happening.
This has happened, and it is a fact. And oh, it's not an unbelievable chance, it's quite believable as it's quite common... I have many cousins studying abroad, and many other similar examples to tell of.

So some students were pulled over for speaking a foreign language. So what. I have been pulled over at an airport for security searches and I speak English. The fact that they spoke Urdu instead of Arabic doesn't matter since both languages are spoken by Muslims. When the vast majority of people who are attacking your nation are of one religion and one religion only there is a natural tendency to pay closer attention to people who are probably members of that religion.

You're right, there is a natural tendency to pay closer attention to them, which is why that should be stopped as it is racist. We all have a natural tendency towards being racist, doesn't mean we should act on it.

Such as the things that were mentioned; stoning homosexuals, killing people who belong to a different religion or even a different sect of the same religion, funding schools that teach religious and racial hatred, killing Christians in Darfur, keeping Christian slaves in parts of Africa, stoning women who have sex outside marriage, killing young girls who marry the wrong man, blowing up innocent men, women and children.

Look at reply concerning this above.
And most of what you said isn't concerned with Islam, merely the culture practicing these wrong acts that should be stopped of course


I have looked at it and your reply was simply an apology for unacceptable behavior. As long as Muslims act as they do they will be distrusted by others. You can't expect people to either respect or accept a religion that condones and encourages what the Muslim faith condones and encourages. Saying that most Muslims are peaceful people doesn't hold water when the official policies of the religion are what they are.


Reply above, too

The vast majority of serial killers in the United States speak English. Should we run in fear at any English-speaking person buying a gun?
There are many, many more english speaking people in the US than arabic speaking people. The ratio of English speaking terrorists to Arabic speaking terrorists is very small. It makes sense that someone thinks that an Arabic speaker is more likely to be a terrorist, statistically they are.

And by instilling terror in us when none should exist, I'd say they've done their job, no?
Yes, they have created terror. We don't want them to also bomb us.

And what percentage of Muslims living in the United States would you say are terrorists? 0.1%? 0.01%?
A very, very, very small percentage. The percentage of terrorists in the US is a tiny percentage as well, people don't bomb buildings every day.

The Muslim world must make a strong stand against the sorts of ridiculous things these extremists do. Then they will begin to be seen as the minority that they are. Silence/innaction from the so-called reasonable majority is seen (psychologically) as tacit approval.

Exactly! You must be staying at a Holiday Inn Express, too! It's not the minority extremists that bother me, it's the tolerance of such extremists by the majority that concerns me.

Example: On 9/11, a number of Arab countries had crowds of people celebrating on our streets. Arab diplomats responded by pointing out that these revelers represented a small minority of the Arab world. Granted, the diplomat is probably right. The big difference between most nations and the Arab world is that such celebration in the rest of the world would not only be frowned upon, but it would be cause for cultural and social ostracization.

when i'm driving, i'm in control of at least my actions...i have trouble with others driving too...and they go nowhere near 750 mph either.
Neither does a plane. Try 450-500. 750 is faster than Mach 1 (the sound barrier) at altitude.

Until the Arabic/Islamic community does something to make the everage Joe believe that the terrorist/extremist is a loathed minority, any reasonable person putting two little girls on an airplane as unescorted minors (as I did) has ever right to be leery.

Clean up your own house before asking the rest of us to ignore the smell.
Brilliant point, Shiloh. Nicely done.

This is part of Sharia.
Acts that are common in the West such as drinking, non-marital sex and homosexual relations are in fact the highest sins in the Abrahamic religions, and extremely punished by the Islamic religion. In fundamental nations this is impossible.

You might think that stoning to death is very extreme, but really, imagine yourself in the middle of a crowd watching a boy being stoned to death for having a homosexual relation (when he, in fact, had the choice of having a sex-change operation to satisfy his sexual needs). Would you do what he did? It seems extreme to many but really, fear is the biggest factor that stops people from doing things.
Okay, you're officially scary now.
I do have a question for you though... How is stoning someone in a remote nation far, far away from the states related to terrorism?
It's not, but it sure-as-shit speaks volumes about your fucked up values and religious practices. If you can kill a man without compunction (ostensibly for "Allah" because you live in a legal system that's based on Muslim principles of jurisprudence, not freedom or fairness), then why should ANYONE trust you people? You're a bunch of subhuman barbarians, and the most egregious part is, you sit there and justify their barbarism. Un-fucking-believable. :mad:

Okay, you're officially scary now.

It's not, but it sure-as-shit speaks volumes about your fucked up values and religious practices. If you can kill a man without compunction (ostensibly for "Allah" because you live in a legal system that's based on Muslim principles of jurisprudence, not freedom or fairness), then why should ANYONE trust you people? You're a bunch of subhuman barbarians, and the most egregious part is, you sit there and justify their barbarism. Un-fucking-believable. :mad:
Im glad to see someone else was alarmed as i was when i read her comments

In the aeroplane incident,its sad but true,everything in America changed after 9/11,I think there lies the victory to those hijackers,they have implanted the fear factor in Americans minds.
I dont know,but does air marshalls fly on domestic flights in US?

There is a major risk or danger call it whatever,of racial profiling against mid east men at airport security,not just in the US but Europe also.
As Frogger pointed out,thers is laws against it,but at the end of the day,we're all human.

Borg touched on a good point also,security.
I used to enjoy flying,but the last time it was a nitemare.
After endless queueing,everyone checking in had drinks and food confiscated,
right after getting radiation bounced thru me on xray,I could buy at exorbitant prices,the exact same things I had to bin down the hall.

Flying in/out of the UK never was a pleasant experience for an Irishman,but now,it dosent matter as long as your white,I feel sorry for Asians,they get the full works.

Im glad to see someone else was alarmed as i was when i read her comments
They were insane.

Innocent Sweety:
I like to consider myself an open minded person,but.

I do believe that some of the laws practised in Muslim nations are as said above,barbaric.
The culture of these nations is reminiscent of 14th century Europe.
The last time I saw someone stoned to death,it was Michael Palin in the life of Brian,if this is all Muslimism can contribute to the world,then maybe these right wing extremeists have a valid point after all.

PS.In America and Europe,getting stoned is a good thing.

In the aeroplane incident,its sad but true,everything in America changed after 9/11,I think there lies the victory to those hijackers,they have implanted the fear factor in Americans minds.
I dont know,but does air marshalls fly on domestic flights in US?

See, you just dont get it paul. These "fears" were there long before the hijackers/mudererous scum ever flew those planes into the towers.

Im not talking about fear of "terrorists", im simply talking about fear itself. Example would be a woman working late at her office. She finishes her work and leaves the building to find a group of men ranging in ages from late teens to middle twenties lurking in the parking lot between her and her car. Do you honestly think there is no fear involved in the decision of whether to walk to her car or go back inside and call police? That group of young men didnt "implant the fear factor" in her. It was there. This example is just an individual fear. How bout fear as a nation?

Back in the fifties, the entire nation had fear that communism would spread. Remember the McCarthy witch hunts? How bout fear of the atomic bomb and the devistation that could spread. Hell, the government even released commercials that spread fear of marijuana into the general population.

You cant give any sort of credit to those scum for implementing ANYTHING. They simply exploited fear that was already there.

The public in America has long lived with supressed fear of terrorists and their machinations. 9/11 simply allowed these long supressed emotions to be voiced and brought to the forefront.

OK thats fair comment,apart from one point.

If the people involved in the arguement were say 'white Americans',do you think the situation would have been handled differently?

OK thats fair comment,apart from one point.

If the people involved in the arguement were say 'white Americans',do you think the situation would have been handled differently?
Handled differently in what way?

See, you just dont get it paul. These "fears" were there long before the hijackers/mudererous scum ever flew those planes into the towers.

Im not talking about fear of "terrorists", im simply talking about fear itself. Example would be a woman working late at her office. She finishes her work and leaves the building to find a group of men ranging in ages from late teens to middle twenties lurking in the parking lot between her and her car. Do you honestly think there is no fear involved in the decision of whether to walk to her car or go back inside and call police? That group of young men didnt "implant the fear factor" in her. It was there. This example is just an individual fear. How bout fear as a nation?

Back in the fifties, the entire nation had fear that communism would spread. Remember the McCarthy witch hunts? How bout fear of the atomic bomb and the devistation that could spread. Hell, the government even released commercials that spread fear of marijuana into the general population.

You cant give any sort of credit to those scum for implementing ANYTHING. They simply exploited fear that was already there.

The public in America has long lived with supressed fear of terrorists and their machinations. 9/11 simply allowed these long supressed emotions to be voiced and brought to the forefront.

ITA, HaV... good post. As a child of the 50's & 60's, I clearly remember duck & cover drills (in case of nuclear attacks... lotta good that would do, eh?) and fallout shelters stocked with water and canned food.

America wasn't sitting back relaxing and thinking we could never be attacked before 9/11. The main thing that changed after 9/11 was the creation of an agency devoted to Homeland Security -- and IMHO, that's been a good thing.

:)
SMW

America wasn't sitting back relaxing and thinking we could never be attacked before 9/11. The main thing that changed after 9/11 was the creation of an agency devoted to Homeland Security -- and IMHO, that's been a good thing.
Fair. I disagree as to whether it was good or bad, however, and I do point to the creation of the humongous bureaucracy that is the Department of Homeland Security as a prime example of the GOP failing in its former role as the party of limited government. The GOP, by and large, is now the party of big government. This is why it makes me ill every time I hear a Republican crying about how big government is, because 99% of them are offenders themselves. Only the few, such as Ron Paul, have a right to make such statements, as his record bears him out.

The Democrats, of course, are no better. But that excuses the GOP from nothing. They have failed their country and all we have now is Big Brother (D) against Police State (R). It's a damn shame, too.

Ok. That video of Palestinian's cheering and dancing was filmed a long time ago, before the WTC was destroyed.
Oh, well, in that case, I'm sure it never happened then. :rolleyes:
To repeat myself: It's mostly due to ignorance.
On this point, I agree wholeheartedly, but I wouldn't forget to mention that indoctrination plays a big role too.
I wasn't trying to excuse anything here Frogger.
Uhhhhh, yeah, you were.
This is a part of Islam that cannot be denied.
Under the penalty of stoning, I'm sure.
All Muslims have to go by the book, and the book says this for certain reasons. I can discuss the rationalization behind it more if you like, but I understand why you would think that such punishments are extremely violent.
Lemme guess......because they ARE!? :@@:
Unfortunately Frogger, we cannot simply take what we like from the book and leave what we do not like. Are you believing in a religion or half a religion? It's all or nothing.
Once again, under the penalty of stoning, I'm sure. Here's an idea; ditch the religion and step into the 21st century. The weather's nice here. Oh, and it's also peaceful.
Keep in mind that during Islamic rule for almost 111 years, only 4 minor thefts occured. Why? Each person had his/her hand cut off after the theft. You might think it's violence, but you can't deny that it is very effective in organizing society and keeping everyone in check if done in a good manner.
Ahh, we're justifying violence again I see. Don't worry, IS - that's par for the course in your neck of the woods, and that's EXACTLY why we don't trust you people, because you backhandedly condone your fanatics. Why do they kill us? Because you people are immune to the pervasive violence you see there on a daily basis, that's why; it's justified in your mind, and the worst part is, it's inextricably linked to your religious teachings - which, as we all know, happen to govern your life and personal choices with an iron fist.
Did you know, for example, that two men have to witness a crime before it is proven?
Oh, I'm sure - like the prosecutor and executioner. If they can clearly see the man being judged is a flaming homosexual, then who needs witnesses? Kill the criminal.
Arabs and Muslims do have respect for private rights. People can do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't go against the Muslim faith.
Well, that's a load off. That's almost like saying you can buy any car you want as long as it's a green Mercedes.
I think it's a bit amusing, though, to defend people's freedom of speech when they offend Muslims, but then criticize Muslims for doing the same to others.
Yeah, I find it amusing too. Especially the part where your "free speech" entitles you to chant the mantra "kill America" on a street corner while CNN films it, and our "free speech" entitles us to draw a fucking cartoon. I mean, yeah - what a bunch of hypocritical nonsense THAT is. :rolleyes:
Muslims do not have prayers of hatred, they only have prayers asking God to aid Muslims to victory against all enemies (enemies being people who attack Islam ONLY - not those of different faiths as you might like to think).
Yeah, and what do you think that implies, IS??? I'm curious. Perhaps "victory" through diplomacy? :rolleyes: Give me a fucking break.

It's your way or the highway, remember? You people don't "talk" anything out; you kill.
You're right, there is a natural tendency to pay closer attention to them, which is why that should be stopped as it is racist. We all have a natural tendency towards being racist, doesn't mean we should act on it.
Bullshit, 'cause unlike you, I value my life. I'd rather be safe than sorry, thankyouverymuch.

As Shiloh so aptly put it, "Clean up your own house before asking the rest of us to ignore the smell."

The problem with having such severe punishment for relatively light infractions is illustrated below:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071024/ap_on_he_me/saudi_breast_cancer

Breast cancer often untreated in Mideast By DONNA ABU-NASR, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 16 minutes ago



RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - One Saudi woman ignored the cancer growing in her breast because she didn't want to risk a referral to a male doctor. Another was divorced by her husband on the mere suspicion she had the disease, while a third was dragged away from a mammogram machine because the technicians were men.

Breast cancer is still considered a taboo in oil-rich Arab Gulf countries like Saudi Arabia even as the disease claims more and more victims, but some women are pushing for greater openness about the illness.

....

The problem with having such severe punishment for relatively light infractions is illustrated below:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071024/ap_on_he_me/saudi_breast_cancer
WTF?!

Handled differently in what way?
Well there wouldnt have been the 'fear' element involved if two white guys were argueing.

True, but then again "white guys" don't have a penchant for killing people in an airplane.

True, but then again "white guys" don't have a penchant for killing people in an airplane.
Yes Im not disputing that.
What Im saying is that before 9/11 the fear of hijacking wouldnt have come into it.
Its human nature.

Yes Im not disputing that.
What Im saying is that before 9/11 the fear of hijacking wouldnt have come into it.
Its human nature.
Not entirely true. Airplanes have been hijacked since the '30's. If I'm not mistaken, it was by the Bolivians, or some shit. To be completely honest, I don't trust Arabs on an airplane, period. If they're not doing the hijacking, then the South Americans are. They became known for it in the '60's when the whole, "this plane is going to Panama" line gained notoriety. We design, build, and pay for 'em, and they crash 'em and kill everyone on board. In short, I don't like seeing any swarthy person on an airplane. Are they all terrorists? Absolutely not, but I'd rather not take any chances.

Yes,I know what your saying,tho Im convinced that my point is correct.

Lets be honest,ten years ago,arabs argueing on a plane was no big deal.
Nowadays,its like a emergency landing,then your plane is taxied way way over beside the fence,were you sit half the day until its sorted out.

9/11 done this,nothing else,and not just in America.If I was on a flight inside europe,under the same conditions,Id feel the same,my Irish passport wouldnt mean dick.
Tho Im surprised these guys didnt get the shit kicked outta them on the plane.

Tho Im surprised these guys didnt get the shit kicked outta them on the plane.
If they tried it now they'd get their asses handed to them. Before 9/11, no one ever used a plane as a guided missile. Even the South and Central Americans weren't crazy enough to wantonly, and with reckless abandon, kill themselves and everyone else on board. I mean, what kinda fucking nutjobs pull that shit?

You know what......never mind - I already know the answer that question - ARABS.

If they tried it now they'd get their asses handed to them. Before 9/11, no one ever used a plane as a guided missile.Exactly right. The fourth plane didn't reach its target on 9/11 because people realized the game.

Well there wouldnt have been the 'fear' element involved if two white guys were argueing.Yes i agree, not on the level as it would be with two men who are arguing in a foreign language and of the middle eastern persuasion.

However, I get nervous around anyone who heightens their anxiety level around me. I trust no one, and think anyone is capable of anything. No matter what their race.