smartmouthwoman
10-25-2007, 07:33 AM
Hello Frogger, long time! As you know, it was Ramadan and Eid was yesterday (at least for the Sunni's, Shia's today). Anyway, I haven't forgotten about this post. Please check my replies :)
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How are terrorists protected by "the people"?
What Islamic schools exactly teach intolerance and hatred? If that does exist, then believe me, I am all for abolishing such teachings.
Ok. That video of Palestinian's cheering and dancing was filmed a long time ago, before the WTC was destroyed. I forgot for which occassion exactly. Someone apparently thought it was a good opportunity as any to increase hatred towards Arabs by showing that video.
Secondly, all Muslims are for the restoration of Palestine. Yes, you heard me right, and I am one of them. I am not, however, for the destruction or annihilation of Jews; nor am I for the destruction of the nation that they live in. This can span into a long debate that would probably have to be discussed in a different thread. You need to understand, Frogger, that people will not "hate" without a good reason. Arabs and Muslims only hate those people who kill their Muslim brothers and sisters for religious reasons, and therefore act in self defense. They do not hate all Jews, nor do they hate all Christians. In fact, they are regarded as believers of the same God, as they all follow the same Abrahamic belief in on way or another. People will only hate people who have treated them in a bad way, and that is what Zionists are doing in Palestine by killing and torturing Palestinians for mostly unjustified reasons. One of the things that will anger Muslims is the glorifying of Israeli murders while Palestinian murders are ignored, which is quite prevalent among Western media.
Muslims in Indonesia who have killed their Christian neighbors have, of course, committed a crime that they should be punished for. What right do they have to kill innocent people based on their faith? This action was, I believe, a result of ignorance from such third-world countries. This is not a case of Islam Frogger, it's ignorance. Such acts happen a lot in many developing countries. Just because they happened to be Muslims who wrongly committed it for religious reasons does not mean that all other Muslims are associated with them as a result. To repeat myself: It's mostly due to ignorance.
I wasn't trying to excuse anything here Frogger. This is a part of Islam that cannot be denied. All Muslims have to go by the book, and the book says this for certain reasons. I can discuss the rationalization behind it more if you like, but I understand why you would think that such punishments are extremely violent.
Unfortunately Frogger, we cannot simply take what we like from the book and leave what we do not like. Are you believing in a religion or half a religion? It's all or nothing.
Keep in mind that during Islamic rule for almost 111 years, only 4 minor thefts occured. Why? Each person had his/her hand cut off after the theft.
You might think it's violence, but you can't deny that it is very effective in organizing society and keeping everyone in check if done in a good manner.
I and my Muslim coreligionists do not have the right to kill someone for "private acts that harm no one". The acts do harm someone, the person doing it and the person receiving it. People who posess set, strict criteria are the only ones allowed to judge such matters, and order punishments. Did you know, for example, that two men have to witness a crime before it is proven?
Arabs and Muslims do have respect for private rights. People can do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't go against the Muslim faith. If you are not a Muslim, then it doesn't matter what you do as long as you abide by the regulations if you're living under Muslim rule.
Can you prove that statement?
I don't believe that to be true, it might have been an outdated program. But if that's the case, then sure, all what you mentioned shouldn't be done and should be stopped.
I think it's a bit amusing, though, to defend people's freedom of speech when they offend Muslims, but then criticize Muslims for doing the same to others.
Do you think that the US government could agree to a deal where if no one criticized or mistreated Muslims anymore, Muslims would do the same thing towards Americans and Israeli's? I mean, you do know that in the Israeli army they're teached to hate and kill Palestinians and Muslims...
Anyway, so is that all that should be done and no one would attack Muslims in airports anymore? I hardly think so...
In turn, if any Imam had said, "Go out and kill Jews and Christians" then your statement would have had some validity, but since he hasn't your statement has no validity either.
Muslims do not have prayers of hatred, they only have prayers asking God to aid Muslims to victory against all enemies (enemies being people who attack Islam ONLY - not those of different faiths as you might like to think). Your statement is overly exaggerated.
All what you mentioned is currently happening.
How about, as a crazy thought, making this give and take in order for it to work effectively? How about stopping ordering Muslims to act in certain ways while you don't change your ways at all? How about asking for the change you want and giving back change that is wanted from you in return? Good old barter system ;) works
That last sentence and comment was uncalled for. In your so-called free press nation, no one reported such an incident, yet it has happened.
You can believe it or not, implying that I might be lying to you, but it has, in fact happened. You cannot tell me that you could be so narrow minded as to think that everything outrageous that happens in your nation will be reported to the public, especially if it shows the US as the wrongdoing one. Everyone knows that such cases have happened in the past, and are probably still happening.
This has happened, and it is a fact. And oh, it's not an unbelievable chance, it's quite believable as it's quite common... I have many cousins studying abroad, and many other similar examples to tell of.
[COLOR=firebrick]You're right, there is a natural tendency to pay closer attention to them, which is why that should be stopped as it is racist. We all have a natural tendency towards being racist, doesn't mean we should act on it.
Look at reply concerning this above.
And most of what you said isn't concerned with Islam, merely the culture practicing these wrong acts that should be stopped of course
Reply above, too
I thought about the posts Innocent Sweety made yesterday and wonder how much longer she'll be posting here. While not actually denouncing her country's policies, she comes very close to disapproving them. In a region where there is no such thing as freedom of speech and homosexuals are still being stoned to death, I'm very surprised she's brave enough to take the risk of talking about such things on the internet. She may indeed be a young and innocent sweety... but I hope that will be enough to save her should her govt get wind of her online indiscretions.
I'm more than a little scared for her.
:(
SMW
[FONT=Verdana]
How are terrorists protected by "the people"?
What Islamic schools exactly teach intolerance and hatred? If that does exist, then believe me, I am all for abolishing such teachings.
Ok. That video of Palestinian's cheering and dancing was filmed a long time ago, before the WTC was destroyed. I forgot for which occassion exactly. Someone apparently thought it was a good opportunity as any to increase hatred towards Arabs by showing that video.
Secondly, all Muslims are for the restoration of Palestine. Yes, you heard me right, and I am one of them. I am not, however, for the destruction or annihilation of Jews; nor am I for the destruction of the nation that they live in. This can span into a long debate that would probably have to be discussed in a different thread. You need to understand, Frogger, that people will not "hate" without a good reason. Arabs and Muslims only hate those people who kill their Muslim brothers and sisters for religious reasons, and therefore act in self defense. They do not hate all Jews, nor do they hate all Christians. In fact, they are regarded as believers of the same God, as they all follow the same Abrahamic belief in on way or another. People will only hate people who have treated them in a bad way, and that is what Zionists are doing in Palestine by killing and torturing Palestinians for mostly unjustified reasons. One of the things that will anger Muslims is the glorifying of Israeli murders while Palestinian murders are ignored, which is quite prevalent among Western media.
Muslims in Indonesia who have killed their Christian neighbors have, of course, committed a crime that they should be punished for. What right do they have to kill innocent people based on their faith? This action was, I believe, a result of ignorance from such third-world countries. This is not a case of Islam Frogger, it's ignorance. Such acts happen a lot in many developing countries. Just because they happened to be Muslims who wrongly committed it for religious reasons does not mean that all other Muslims are associated with them as a result. To repeat myself: It's mostly due to ignorance.
I wasn't trying to excuse anything here Frogger. This is a part of Islam that cannot be denied. All Muslims have to go by the book, and the book says this for certain reasons. I can discuss the rationalization behind it more if you like, but I understand why you would think that such punishments are extremely violent.
Unfortunately Frogger, we cannot simply take what we like from the book and leave what we do not like. Are you believing in a religion or half a religion? It's all or nothing.
Keep in mind that during Islamic rule for almost 111 years, only 4 minor thefts occured. Why? Each person had his/her hand cut off after the theft.
You might think it's violence, but you can't deny that it is very effective in organizing society and keeping everyone in check if done in a good manner.
I and my Muslim coreligionists do not have the right to kill someone for "private acts that harm no one". The acts do harm someone, the person doing it and the person receiving it. People who posess set, strict criteria are the only ones allowed to judge such matters, and order punishments. Did you know, for example, that two men have to witness a crime before it is proven?
Arabs and Muslims do have respect for private rights. People can do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't go against the Muslim faith. If you are not a Muslim, then it doesn't matter what you do as long as you abide by the regulations if you're living under Muslim rule.
Can you prove that statement?
I don't believe that to be true, it might have been an outdated program. But if that's the case, then sure, all what you mentioned shouldn't be done and should be stopped.
I think it's a bit amusing, though, to defend people's freedom of speech when they offend Muslims, but then criticize Muslims for doing the same to others.
Do you think that the US government could agree to a deal where if no one criticized or mistreated Muslims anymore, Muslims would do the same thing towards Americans and Israeli's? I mean, you do know that in the Israeli army they're teached to hate and kill Palestinians and Muslims...
Anyway, so is that all that should be done and no one would attack Muslims in airports anymore? I hardly think so...
In turn, if any Imam had said, "Go out and kill Jews and Christians" then your statement would have had some validity, but since he hasn't your statement has no validity either.
Muslims do not have prayers of hatred, they only have prayers asking God to aid Muslims to victory against all enemies (enemies being people who attack Islam ONLY - not those of different faiths as you might like to think). Your statement is overly exaggerated.
All what you mentioned is currently happening.
How about, as a crazy thought, making this give and take in order for it to work effectively? How about stopping ordering Muslims to act in certain ways while you don't change your ways at all? How about asking for the change you want and giving back change that is wanted from you in return? Good old barter system ;) works
That last sentence and comment was uncalled for. In your so-called free press nation, no one reported such an incident, yet it has happened.
You can believe it or not, implying that I might be lying to you, but it has, in fact happened. You cannot tell me that you could be so narrow minded as to think that everything outrageous that happens in your nation will be reported to the public, especially if it shows the US as the wrongdoing one. Everyone knows that such cases have happened in the past, and are probably still happening.
This has happened, and it is a fact. And oh, it's not an unbelievable chance, it's quite believable as it's quite common... I have many cousins studying abroad, and many other similar examples to tell of.
[COLOR=firebrick]You're right, there is a natural tendency to pay closer attention to them, which is why that should be stopped as it is racist. We all have a natural tendency towards being racist, doesn't mean we should act on it.
Look at reply concerning this above.
And most of what you said isn't concerned with Islam, merely the culture practicing these wrong acts that should be stopped of course
Reply above, too
I thought about the posts Innocent Sweety made yesterday and wonder how much longer she'll be posting here. While not actually denouncing her country's policies, she comes very close to disapproving them. In a region where there is no such thing as freedom of speech and homosexuals are still being stoned to death, I'm very surprised she's brave enough to take the risk of talking about such things on the internet. She may indeed be a young and innocent sweety... but I hope that will be enough to save her should her govt get wind of her online indiscretions.
I'm more than a little scared for her.
:(
SMW