Noble lies and perpetual war: Leo Strauss, the neo-cons, and Iraq

http://www.opendemocracy.net/debates/article-3-77-1542.jsp
Excerpts:

.......Now, the ancients were determined to keep this tyrannical teaching secret because the people are not likely to tolerate the fact that they are intended for subordination; indeed, they may very well turn their resentment against the superior few. Lies are thus necessary to protect the superior few from the persecution of the vulgar many.

The effect of Strauss’s teaching is to convince his acolytes that they are the natural ruling elite and the persecuted few. And it does not take much intelligence for them to surmise that they are in a situation of great danger, especially in a world devoted to the modern ideas of equal rights and freedoms. Now more than ever, the wise few must proceed cautiously and with circumspection. So, they come to the conclusion that they have a moral justification to lie in order to avoid persecution. Strauss goes so far as to say that dissembling and deception – in effect, a culture of lies – is the peculiar justice of the wise.

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I never imagined when I wrote my first book on Strauss that the unscrupulous elite that he elevates would ever come so close to political power, nor that the ominous tyranny of the wise would ever come so close to being realised in the political life of a great nation like the United States. But fear is the greatest ally of tyranny. (cont'd)

Very good points, willow!!! In America, lyin' is pretty ingrained, from Mom and Pop to the Top...

I daresay it's gettin' so bad, there's gonna come a day when we'll ALL be lyin'... in our graves... ;)

Thanks fer yer contribution, and feel free ta expand on it!!!

Socrates once said that - the unexamined life was not worth living.

If he were alive today, he'd probably agree that the unexamined LIE was not worth BUYING , either.
So. What can you say about a country of people who STILL believe the supreme BS that paying income taxes is our PATRIOTIC DUTY...blah, blah... It's for the GOOD of the NATION.... blah, blah...

Couldn't POSSIBLY be for the sole benefit of the International Bankers cabal who dreamt up their monstererously lucrative - lets start with our PRIVATIZING of the Nations Banks - scheme. And tact on this here Income Tax Act too. And with in 50, 60 yrs we will end up having privatized... everything.
Right down to those greedy DC mother fer's who are happy to go along with the lie and pose as " servants of the people " - so long as we continue to provide them their cushy little - for life - paychecks....uuhmm....hush money..

Interestin' things ta ponder...

And now, talk of privatizin' the MILITARY, too!!!

So, the rich will pretty much OWN whatever's left of our government???

Scarier than ANYTHING I ever saw on Halloween...

Keep shovin' yer ideas at us, Willow... I'm intrigued by yer nouns and verbs... ;)

Words,
where people ever got that idea that this country's military was any thing other than privatized, certainly by the time Eisenhower warned us to "Beware the milltary/industrial complex " ....
Geez you know I was going to say ...I will never know . But the truth is people just ASSUME it's OUR military cause we built it and pay the bills. Which are still paying. For just the screws on the first bombers they cranked out in WWI.

If we ain't paid the complex for the works in TOTAL - which we have not by any means - it ain't ours - but the cabals military.
Same complex/cabal who also decide who's country they will send our troops to next, to butcher the resitance, to occupy, privatize and rob them of every thing too.

You don't even want to get me started on how they have even privatized what few remaining clean water aquifers there are in this country. No shit, they are hoarding/selling not just our - but the world's, - fresh water on the open market to the highest bidders.

You gotta read Blue Gold. If we think they had us over a barrel with oil...guess what we won't do, or pay for a glass of clean, safe water.

a wise man once said, an over examined life is a waste.

trav!! Hello !!!? Any body home!!?

Originally posted by willow
Words,
where people ever got that idea that this country's military was any thing other than privatized,

Last I new anyone that met the physical requirments could join.............EVEN YOU WILLOW :eek:

Originally posted by mad dog
Last I new anyone that met the physical requirments could join.............EVEN YOU WILLOW :eek:


Now thats some funny shit! Imagine Willow crying like a little girl the second he stepped off the bus and realized no one gave a crap about his well thought out, totally logical theories? LMAO, he would whimper when someone yelled at him and say "please, let me go home to my computer so I can be free", right about then a drill sergeant would give himn a swift kick in the ass and tell him to shut his filthy mouth.

Maybe it would be a female D.I. beating him -- at least then there would be someting new for willow to fantasize about: competent, tough women in uniform, ready & willing to kick his worthless carcass into something resembling shape as he cries into his pillow.

Ah..... the beautifull but very tough woman DI. Spank me, spank me. She asked me to drop and give her 20, man was I embarassed I told her I am only a white boy, so the most I could give her was 6

Originally posted by es347fan
(…) kick his worthless carcass into something resembling shape as he cries into his pillow.

I thought I should report this to a moderator but it seems you are the super moderator here !
Come on - give Willow a break.

Willow wouldnt make it out of the recruiters office before he broke down missing his mommy

Noble lies? Possibly.

Perpetual War? Not gonna happen.

Russia, China, the EU and others are already aligning militarily to throw a major speed bump in front of the US military.

Normally, under these conditions, I'd suggest buying gold but things are about to get serious. I guess it really doesn't matter what one owns when (s)he's dirt-napping.

Dop

so Russia, China and the EU against us? man, we might need Willow after all....

Relations with Russia at least I know are detoriating.

Ain't no 'might' about it, Trav ...

Only fools underestimate their enemies.

Dop

your right, we should do a premptive nuke strike right away.

Lol Trav but there's one thing wrong with that idea ...

We gots 5,000 -- they gots 7,000

And yeah, they all work.

Dop

Thanks for batting for me Astro. Just goes to show how much class French people have. Even after the viciously brutal and totally undeserved smearathon they pulled on you all.

And why? Because your country had too much dignity to jump behind this asshole lying gov's Iraq war to free NOTHING but all their countries resources and, industry, in repayment to the financiers who bought the Bushco his seat in the oval orifice.

Ironic too, isn't it? How these sanctimonious americans can talk a blue streak about their wonderful democracy, and how people every where should have the same rights and freedoms to make their own choices. And when you choose to exercise YOUR freedom to not support their war, suddenly ....... they develop total amnesia about what freedom of choice means.

Originally posted by Travh20
your right, we should do a premptive nuke strike right away.
Sadly, with the way Bush tends to act, I wouldn't be surprised if this happened.

Lungdog,
good one - about never underestimating your enemy. More important is learning WHO your enemy actually is.


We have no money for national health care, for schools, for pensions, for prisons to keep convicts housed, for hiway patrol, the mentally challenged, the homeless die in our streets every day. Kids all over this country only wish they had a bite to eat some days. Even individual states have gone bankrupt.
But miraculously! we can always manage to find and fork billions upon billions upon billions over to the military/industrial boys.

4 BILLION a month it's costing us - with compounded interest- just so we can kill more innocent Iraqi bystanders and children. And so we can bring more of our own, back in body bags.

And those who survive - how ever long they will stretch this war/occupation out - can return home to die slow cancer deaths from all the DU.
And we STILL don't see the enemy for who he is. We still don't SEE the writing on the wall. We still think the enemy is OUTSIDE the walls of our fort.

I just wonder when people will understand that ones true enemy is NEVER the one who stands before us, rattles his sabers, and makes his intentions well known. But the one who's left us holding the bag.

Ps) Have you ever read - The Art of War, by Sun Tzu?

Will

No on 'The art of war' question but not because it's not worthy.

I've moved past the Sun Tzu and Machievellian styles of survival and now rely on my life-experiences and finely tuned karma. Fear, danger and intimidation mean nothing to me. I let other people deal with those self-induced mind journeys and live with the haunting of the soul that each of them bring along.

All your points are certainly worth concern. The lies, greed, jingoism, waste, deceit and warmongering will someday pass and we will survive just fine. Problem is ... it will take a while. There's no immediate recipe that we can whip together to change this hard turn to starboard. The best we can do as we wait for the center of the storm is to not allow penetration. Years ago there was no mass media nor was there the internet. People of those ages therefore experienced the same displeasures and dislikes as we are now seeing, only it was in slow-motion compared to the nearly instant response we see today.

I'm sure there was a time when the roman empire looked invincible as was the grasp of Hitler, Stalin, Napolean and despots like Nicolae Ceausescu, Pol Pot and Pinochet. They are all gone now and we hardly even think of them outside of studying them in history class.

Have no fear, our Trotsky, Che, Dr. King or JFK will show up and then things will begin to change. Meahwhile, I believe there are enough cool heads in the world to keep us alive and breathing until they arrive.

Dop

Lungdop, I admire your optmism. I agree that there is always hope. But you sem to be waiting for a providential man to change thing - i guess we should rather start working by ourselves to make a better world.

LOL astra ...

Yeah I guess I did make it sound like I'm waiting for the 'Maid of Lorraine' to swing by on her return from the seige at Orleans.

Believe me, I don't live down the rabbit hole with Alice and the mad hatter, nor am I naive. OTOH, Pollyannish probably describes my nature as good as any single word.

It seems to me that the left desperatly needs a leader and not someone who wants to take the fight to the floor of the house or senate or the UN where they cave-in, switch sides and flip-flop all in the name of 'just doing business'. That's totally unacceptable.

I'm thinking more along the lines of a Trotsky/Lenin/Guevera character, their ideologies notwithstanding, who knows the true power of this country belongs to the farmers, the factory workers, the soldiers and the people in the streets. It is these people who, in the long run, will decide which way the wind blows across our once great lands. But -- it won't happen without leadership dedicated to a street-level cause.

Dop

Maybe. The same in France, we desperately need a good leader for the left.

astra

You're in France?

Now I'm really LOL. My remark about the Maid of Lorraine was dead on and I didn't even know it.

Dop

Not only am I in France but I am french ! Oui, monsieur !

astra

Beautiful country -- been there many times with '98 (World Cup) the most recent. So far I've visited Paris, Nice, Toulon, Canne, St. Tropez and of course a few of the small towns in between. Also did the EuroStar from Gare du Nord to Waterloo in London. What a gas.

I'm way off-topic. -- later.

Dop