Good or Bad?

Employers brace for immigration rules By SUZANNE GAMBOA and ANABELLE GARAY, Associated Press Writers
59 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - Employers across the country may have to fire workers with questionable Social Security numbers to avoid getting snagged in a Bush administration crackdown on illegal immigrants.

The Department of Homeland Security is expected to make public soon new rules for employers notified when a worker's name or Social Security number is flagged by the Social Security Administration.

The rule as drafted requires employers to fire people who can't be verified as a legal worker and can't resolve within 60 days why the name or Social Security number on their W-2 doesn't match the government's database.

Employers who don't comply could face fines of $250 to $10,000 per illegal worker and incident.

"There's a lot of fear and anxiety about what this rule is going to mean, particularly in the agricultural sector," said Craig Regelbrugge, spokesman for the American Nursery and Landscape Association and co-chairman of the Agriculture Coalition for Immigration Reform.

For years, the Social Security Administration has sent "no match" letters to workers and their employers notifying them of the information discrepancies, to make sure money withheld from a person's paycheck is credited to the correct worker. The letters are not shared with other government agencies because of privacy laws.

Although employers are prohibited from hiring illegal workers, their responsibilities with the letters have generally ended with notifying the workers of the discrepancies and leaving it to them to deal with it.

Attorneys have warned many employers to be careful not to fire a worker because they got a letter, because the no-match could be the result of a typo in a name or number, a computer error, a name change that wasn't reported after marriage or other reasons.

But those who don't comply with the new rule could be deemed as knowingly hiring an illegal worker.

The Department of Homeland Security says the new rule provides guidance to employers on how to deal with workers who receive no-match letters and what to do — fire them — if the issue is not resolved in 60 days and they can't verify their workers are legal. It gives employers who comply immunity from penalties if illegal workers are found at their business in an investigation or raid, said Russ Knocke, Homeland Security department spokesman.

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a division of the Homeland Security Department, "is going to be tough and aggressive in the enforcement of the law," Knocke said. "You are going to see more work site cases. And no more excuses."

The administration trotted out the stepped-up enforcement plan last summer but put it on hold while the Senate debated an immigration reform bill.

That bill would have granted a chance at legal status for the estimated 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants in the country and created a temporary worker program. It also would have required employers to verify the status of all their workers.

After the bill collapsed in Congress, employers started bracing for the tougher rule.

"Congress didn't act. They didn't do what they needed to do on comprehensive immigration reform. Now there's going to be some pain to pay, and Congress is not going to feel the pain right away, it's the communities (of employees), and that's a real shame," said Laura Reiff, co-chairwoman of the Essential Workers Immigration Coalition, a national group of business and trade associations.

For Mark Chamblee, the stricter rule could mean losing some of his 28 workers at his nursery in Tyler, Texas.

Chamblee suspects a few of his workers could have trouble with their Social Security numbers and said he will fire them if the problems aren't resolved.

"Of course, it would add to the workload for the other workers," he said. "It would reduce our production and our output. Not all of our demand would be met on our products. Operating costs would go up."

Ray Atkinson, a spokesman for Pilgrim's Pride Corp., confirmed that the country's largest chicken processing company recently fired employees at two Texas plants.

The company's policy "for some time now" has been to terminate employees who can't clear up discrepancies, Atkinson said.

"We're all very cautious and we're all very nervous," Chamblee said.

I'm all in favor of this change in the law. For far too long employers have thumbed their collective noses at those who have a problem with illegal immigration. They have knowingly hired illegals. Let them start paying for their criminal activity in hiring people who are breaking the law by the simple fact of their being here illegally.

Something that caught my eye in the article was this Nursery owner:

For Mark Chamblee, the stricter rule could mean losing some of his 28 workers at his nursery in Tyler, Texas.

Chamblee suspects a few of his workers could have trouble with their Social Security numbers and said he will fire them if the problems aren't resolved.

"Of course, it would add to the workload for the other workers," he said. "It would reduce our production and our output. Not all of our demand would be met on our products. Operating costs would go up."

If he suspects that some of his workers could have trouble, wouldn't he also suspect that he has ALREADY hired some illegal immigrants?
I would say get to work figuring out IF you can fix the problems they MAY have, sounds to me like you have 60 days to do it.

This new push to keep the illegals unemployed, dove-tails nicely with the recently-announced $20,000 instant bonus for joining the army. What's an illegal gonna do when he can't get a job and the gov is dangling 20-large in his face? Yup -- he'll sigh up in a heartbeat. Plus he gets automatic citizenship when he completes 2 years. The gov has already handed out tens of thousands of citizenship papers to illegals that did their time in uniform. I believe the last number I heard was in the neighborhood of 40,000.

If there is a point to this post ... I guess that it's illegal to be here to do stoop labor but not illegal to be here to join the army and die for america.

And, there is no background check done on these newly inducted illegals ... they simply sign them up and ship 'em off to boot camp.

Only in america (or whatever our country is now called)

The gov has already handed out tens of thousands of citizenship papers to illegals that did their time in uniform.

That being the case they are no longer ILLEGAL. They ARE citizens.

That being the case they are no longer ILLEGAL. They ARE citizens.

So that makes it OK for them to come here illegally as long as it's for military service and not for stoop labor?

So that makes it OK for them to come here illegally as long as it's for military service and not for stoop labor?

I'm not saying that's ok. I think illegal immigration has to stop. But the fact of the matter is there are millions of them here. If they are here already and haven't commited any major crimes and wish to serve the country and begin to PAY TAXES like every citizens does, they would no longer use the system without paying into it, I would be happy to let them and their family stay. My biggest problem is them not paying into the system but using the benefits from it. It overtaxes the systems to the point that they no longer work well for the citizens who pay for them.

But they definately need to cut off illegal immigrants coming in and make them go through the process like the law-abiding immigrants do and have done.

So that makes it OK for them to come here illegally as long as it's for military service and not for stoop labor?

NOTHING makes it ok for someone to come into this country illegally, but I really don't have a problem with bestowing citizenship on someone who has put his life on the line for our country. Still, a thorough background check BEFORE being accepted into the military should be part of the deal.

As for the article above, I'm all for penalizing those who knowingly hire illegals, BIG TIME. If unethical business people didn't hire them, they wouldn't be breaking our laws to get here (for the most part, anyway; I suppose there are actually a few illegals who WANT to become Americans but don't bother going through the proper channels, but that number can't be very big).

Yes, it's true that forged documents are easy enough for illegals to obtain, but the onus is still on the employer - if they have even the tiniest suspicion that the docs are fake, they shouldn't hire the person. Of course, this won't happen until there are very real, very serious consequences to the business owner. I say, LET 'EM HAVE IT!

I call it "MERCENARY" labor... They, the "Illegal" immigrants, would have two choices, go home or participate in the foreign aggressions and conquers of Uncle Sam as a MERCENARY" worker.

Some work...

So that makes it OK for them to come here illegally as long as it's for military service and not for stoop labor?

As a matter of fact you are right. It is okay for them to come here and enlist because by doing so they are not breaking any laws. Those who come here to do stoop labor, and use our schools, and use our welfare system, and use our health care system, are breaking the law. I'm happy that you have finally got that straightened out in your mind.

As a matter of fact you are right. It is okay for them to come here and enlist because by doing so they are not breaking any laws. Those who come here to do stoop labor, and use our schools, and use our welfare system, and use our health care system, are breaking the law. I'm happy that you have finally got that straightened out in your mind.

What a crock ... the minute they step foot in the country illegaly they have broken the law PERIOD.

I didn't make the law -- I just follow it.

They can enlist without stepping a foot in this country. They can also voice their intent to enlist and be allowed to enter.

If you can't see the difference between enlisting to protect the country and sucking at the national teat there is something wrong with you.

I'm gonna agree with Frogger on this one.

This new push to keep the illegals unemployed, dove-tails nicely with the recently-announced $20,000 instant bonus for joining the army. What's an illegal gonna do when he can't get a job and the gov is dangling 20-large in his face? Yup -- he'll sigh up in a heartbeat. Plus he gets automatic citizenship when he completes 2 years. The gov has already handed out tens of thousands of citizenship papers to illegals that did their time in uniform. I believe the last number I heard was in the neighborhood of 40,000.

If there is a point to this post ... I guess that it's illegal to be here to do stoop labor but not illegal to be here to join the army and die for america.

And, there is no background check done on these newly inducted illegals ... they simply sign them up and ship 'em off to boot camp.

Only in america (or whatever our country is now called)
That's incorrect, Dop. Illegal aliens currently cannot join the military.

Illegal aliens currently cannot join the military.
Illegal aliens currently cannot legally join the military.

Illegal aliens currently cannot legally join the military.
True, there have been cases of illegals using fake documents to enlist.

They can enlist without stepping a foot in this country. They can also voice their intent to enlist and be allowed to enter.

If you can't see the difference between enlisting to protect the country and sucking at the national teat there is something wrong with you.

If I understand you correctly -- the fine folks of mexico have a life-passion of joining our military to protect the very people they have labelled gringos -- I'll presume you know what that word means and the context in which it is used.

Give me a f'n break.

I'm gonna agree with Frogger on this one.

That's fine DF but usually one adds content to the topic or otherwise substantiates their agreement with the poster ...

Uhhhhhh ... waiting ... tick, tock ... ZZZZzzzzz.....

That's fine DF but usually one adds content to the topic or otherwise substantiates their agreement with the poster ...

Uhhhhhh ... waiting ... tick, tock ... ZZZZzzzzz.....
I'm not allowed to agree with someone without backing up my argument? Who made you the forum police?

Maybe I should have said "I don't really know what else to say and I don't have any personal experience relating to this issue, but I agree with Frogger."

If I had agreed with you I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have made any issue with my post.

If I understand you correctly -- the fine folks of mexico have a life-passion of joining our military to protect the very people they have labelled gringos -- I'll presume you know what that word means and the context in which it is used.

Give me a f'n break.
I don't think he said that every single immigrant wants to serve our country out of a desire to protect gringos... We all know perfectly well that the only reason they would do so is to get citizenship. Have an argument for that?

If I had agreed with you I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have made any issue with my post.

Ding! we have a winner!

Would you like your small prize now... or would you like to try for a medium?

I'm not allowed to agree with someone without backing up my argument? Who made you the forum police?

Maybe I should have said "I don't really know what else to say and I don't have any personal experience relating to this issue, but I agree with Frogger."

If I had agreed with you I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have made any issue with my post.

I apologize if I came across as the forum police -- that was not the intention of my post.

I apologize if I came across as the forum police -- that was not the intention of my post.
Then what was the intention?

Then what was the intention?

Precisely what I posted ... that if you choose to take a position based on a previous post, you shoud substatiate that positoion ... that's all .. no more -- no less.

Precisely what I posted ... that if you choose to take a position based on a previous post, you shoud substatiate that positoion ... that's all .. no more -- no less.
Maybe I don't have a reason for thinking the way I do about certain issues. I think that non-citizens should be allowed to join the army and become citizens afterwards. i don't really have an explanation for that.

That's incorrect, Dop. Illegal aliens currently cannot join the military.

No, but foreign nationals can. That is the difference between those who enlist and those who sneak into this country. I personally know of three non-citezens who enlisted in the United States Army, one was from Canada and two were from Germany.

Maybe I don't have a reason for thinking the way I do about certain issues. I think that non-citizens should be allowed to join the army and become citizens afterwards. i don't really have an explanation for that.

YA know ...like ...Uhhhh .... I feel the same way so why are we arguing???

No, but foreign nationals can. That is the difference between those who enlist and those who sneak into this country. I personally know of three non-citezens who enlisted in the United States Army, one was from Canada and two were from Germany.


Ok -- we're gonna resort to the Frogger model and allow anyone in the country PERIOD -- no questions asked as long as they serve in our military ...

WTF??????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????/

If I understand you correctly -- the fine folks of mexico have a life-passion of joining our military to protect the very people they have labelled gringos -- I'll presume you know what that word means and the context in which it is used.

Give me a f'n break.


I guess you don't know that there are other nationalities besides Mexican and American. You seem to not even be aware that not all illegal aliens are Mexican.

Ok -- we're gonna resort to the Frogger model and allow anyone in the country PERIOD -- no questions asked as long as they serve in our military ...

WTF??????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????/


I don't really give a shit what model you resort or subscribe to. The fact is, people who enlist in the United States Armed Forces almost always get on the fast track to citizenship. If you don't like it that's just too bad. I really don't care.

I don't really give a shit what model you resort or subscribe to. The fact is, people who enlist in the United States Armed Forces almost always get on the fast track to citizenship. If you don't like it that's just too bad. I really don't care.

What's your point ??? That our borders should be totally open to anyone as long as that person intends to enlist ?????

Again wtf???????

My point is, a person who is willing to serve a minimum of three years protecting the United States has a greater claim to citizenship than a person who snuck across the border and is living here illegally.

My point is, a person who is willing to serve a minimum of three years protecting the United States has a greater claim to citizenship than a person who snuck across the border and is living here illegally.

Fantasy is a wonderful thing -- but here's a reality check ...

6 million people snuck (is that a word?) across the border last year (2006) and it only took 19 people to create 9/11.

So your position is .... let them in as long as they promise to enlist in the army ?????????????????????????????

Yuh ... that's a good plan ...

Well then... lets close the border and make it much harder to "sneak" in here.

Oops.... sorry the house wants to give the illegals benefits (and keep them borders nice and porous).

Never mind then...

I'm all in favor of this change in the law. For far too long employers have thumbed their collective noses at those who have a problem with illegal immigration. They have knowingly hired illegals. Let them start paying for their criminal activity in hiring people who are breaking the law by the simple fact of their being here illegally.


I agree with Frogger on this point.