Ok, for me this is an emotional post for me since im a big pet lover. Especially cats. Meow!! But anyways, im really disgusted with the government because the animials are the last on their minds. To me, they are just as important as humans. And mainly the problem is over population of pets, and they are abandoned on the side of the road. And there are dogs that have so many puppies that their organs stop working. If that dog is so interested in breeding, it needs to be spayed or nutered. Because most dogs or cats or any other pet who are born by somebody's pet, they are taken and thrown on the streets. My god, if they didn't want them, they could drive down the street to the local animal shelter, or pound, or vet, that way the can have a good home, while they are waiting for a good home. But i think that is mainly the people's problem, but the government needs to encourage to take them to animal shelters.

My next part of this thread is about government not helping protect animals enough against animal cruelty. So many animals are beaten til they are souless beings, or they die. sometimes its for a person's amusement. How sick. One time, when i was working with my father at a local vet, i was petting all of the cats and there was one, ill never forget. He was so friendly, rubbed his head against my let, and was just so friendly. Then when it turned around, the poor thing had half of its fur/skin burned off. "My god what happened to you," i said, nearly in tears. The nurse said that since it was a black cat, people liked to do rituals killing black cats...thinking they were work of witches and all that stuff. And that particular pet was a victim. Someone took it, beated it, and then burned it, and left it on the side of the road, left for dead. Luckily, the vet was able to rescue it and nurse it back to health. The police didnt catch the people behind it, im sure they didn't do much. And that just burns me up. We have to do something about this to prevent this from happening to other pets!! But what can we do? Im so glad i am able to talk about this.

There's not much that can be done beyond what happens now, unless we ban the ownership of pets or put some Big Brother telescreens in every house. It's very difficult to see where abuse occurs.

Well couldn't there be a law where criminals recieved the same fate as if they killed a human being?

Well couldn't there be a law where criminals recieved the same fate as if they killed a human being?
Then euthanasia of cats and dogs would be illegal in many states, and you'd have to receive the animal's permission to spay/neuter it. Which I'm sure it would refuse to give.

Animals don't have the same rights as humans for a reason. Oftentimes, we know better than they do what is best for them, as they are not sentient.

But they have a soul. Sure it may be true that they don't want to be spayed/nuetered, but they don't want to die either. And whoever killed it, murder is murder.

But they have a soul. Sure it may be true that they don't want to be spayed/nuetered, but they don't want to die either. And whoever killed it, murder is murder.
What about insects? How many flies have you swatted? How many ants have you stepped on? Has to be a line somewhere.

that may be true, but when you kill 1 fly, 2 take its place.

that may be true, but when you kill 1 fly, 2 take its place.

There is a big hole in your logic, skinny_bones. Thinking like that would mean we could kill kids from large families because, kill one and two will take its place. It would not be okay to kill animals with slow reproduction rates but fine to kill animals with high reproduction rates. I guess cows are safer than pigs which are safer than dogs which are safer than mice because of the number of offspring they have.

While no one should be intentionally cruel to animals animals do not have either the same rights or same value as humans and crimes against them are not equal. While it is wrong to kill a cat it is much more wrong to kill a human.

Animals don't have the same rights as humans for a reason. Oftentimes, we know better than they do what is best for them, as they are not sentient.

Ah human arrogance never ceases to amaze me. Animals don't have the same rights for a reason, and I think this is what it is:

It would force man to admit that he is NOT above the animal kingdom, but actually a part of it.

How you can honestly make a statement like "we know what's best for them" and that's why we kill them is beyond me. They are not sentient in your opinion. Based on the way we treat them, exploit them, wipe their species from the face of the earth, maybe your sentience is not all as great as you seem to think.

Sentience is BS. They are life and have every bit as much right to LIVE as we do.

They say that wasps show signs of primitive intelligence.
I've never swatted a wasp. I've never been stung.
However, spiders KNOW I don't like them so I'm on their hit list.

Seriiously, there aren't enough workers in Child Protective Services who can possibly track all the cases of abuse--for children. Courts are overburdened with these cases.

There just simply isn't enough money to take care of the critters.

There just simply isn't enough money to take care of the critters.


What a sad commentary on humanity.

It is sad, Genzo.

Not long ago, 2 male students at Indiana University caught a stray cat, pulled its ears off with pliers, blinded it, and then set it on fire. The cat survived and dozens of people offered to adopt it. There are more good people than bad, thank god.

The boys receieved a minimal sentence--community service and a fine.

Earlier this year a letter writer to the op-ed page of the newspaper suggested that too much money was spent on CPS and that the money should be diverted to animal care.

Something very very wrong with that idea. IMO.

I would like to see harsher sentences directed towards those who mistreat animals but not at the price of depriving children.

I totally agree, but also think there would be plenty of money to go around if the funds were actually spent on things that they were supposed to be spent on.

As for harsher sentences, I don't know what kind of sentence would be appropriate for these people who have such low regard for life. There definately needs to be some kind of psychiatric evaluation done on these people. If they are under 18, they are obviously still the parents responsibility, so they should pay for it just for raising the little monster to have no sense of right and wrong. If they are older then make it part of their sentence that they pay for it themselves, if they refuse, garnish their salary. But still make it mandatory that they go get some help.

Maybe also make it part of their permanent record like child molesters, so that they are NEVER allowed to own a pet.

Those are good thoughts.

Those who deliberately torment creatures have major psycholigical problems and they're manifested from a very young age. I can't recall reading of many serial killers who DID'NT also abuse pets or strays, even insects. ...and they started doing this at a shockingly young age.


PS. The college boys had to clean kennels as part of their sentence. I thought at the time it was too bad they didn't have to clean a tiger's cage--a bad-tempered tiger.

It would force man to admit that he is NOT above the animal kingdom, but actually a part of it....

... They are life and have every bit as much right to LIVE as we do.

I completely agree. All creatures have a "right" to life. A sheep has a right to life, and so does a lion. If the lion eats the sheep to stay alive, is it wrong? No, it's nature. Like it or not, the "natural" thing to do for a great number of creatures is to kill other creatures. Man is one of the killers, and occasionally one of the killed. You want us to be above the animals, and admit that we're just one of them, all at once.

"Nature is red in tooth and claw"-- Rudyard Kipling

Now, now, Vile. Stop being logical. You know that doesn't work around here. Emotions is what rules the roost in Allforums. Animals can kill animals. Man is an animal. Man cannot kill animals. Emotion, not logic.

Man cannot kill animals.

Man certainly can kill animals, thats the law of the jungle. Animals are killed for food, clothing, self defense, and sure a host of other reasons. What man CANNOT do is abuse, torture, and cause the extinction of another species.

That is both emotion AND Logic. Should satisfy everyone.

Man certainly can kill animals, thats the law of the jungle. Animals are killed for food, clothing, self defense, and sure a host of other reasons. What man CANNOT do is abuse, torture, and cause the extinction of another species.

That is both emotion AND Logic. Should satisfy everyone.

Maybe man SHOULDN'T do those things but he can do them. Animals are abused every day by being made to do things they would not naturally do. Rats and guinea pigs and chimps are made to be subjects in medical experiments. Horses are saddled and ridden. Bulls are placed in arenas and tormented and fought and finally killed. Dogs are made to pull sleds.

It may not be pleasant to contemplate but animals do not have rights. Rights are inherent. Animals don't have inherent rights. They have only what we humans give or allow them. Deer don't have the right to not be hunted. Fish don't have the right to not be angled for or netted. Flies don't have the right not to be swatted. Animals don't have rights.

[Maybe man SHOULDN'T do those things but he can do them. Animals are abused every day by being made to do things they would not naturally do./QUOTE]

There is no maybe about it. He shouldn't.

[QUOTE]Rats and guinea pigs and chimps are made to be subjects in medical experiments.

This should be stopped.

Horses are saddled and ridden. Dogs are made to pull sleds.


These are more like jobs for which the animals are not tortured but kept fed, sheltered and medically taken care of.

Bulls are placed in arenas and tormented and fought and finally killed

This is done for ENTERTAINMENT. The whole practice should be banned by anyone who would even dare to think of themself as intelligent.

It may not be pleasant to contemplate but animals do not have rights. Rights are inherent. Animals don't have inherent rights.

BS all life has the inherent right to not be tortured or killed for no reason.

They have only what we humans give or allow them.

Do you even understand how arrogant that statement is? Who the hell is MAN to ALLOW or GIVE or for that matter DENY rights to another life form. We do not OWN the planet just because we evolved in a "Intelligent" species. And I wonder if in the natural scheme of these our intelligence is so great considering the way we treat the planet.

Animals don't have rights.

Animals DO have rights. We don't have the right to decide that they don't.

Many animals have the right to be served on a plate with a helping of mashed potatoes and gravy, and a nice fresh garden vegetable medley (or salad).

:D

Many animals have the right to be served on a plate with a helping of mashed potatoes and gravy, and a nice fresh garden vegetable medley (or salad).


What you're talking about is killing animals for food. Every living thing needs food, that's nature and thats our right to eat.

BS all life has the inherent right to not be tortured or killed for no reason.


If it's ok to kill an animal to eat it, is it ok to kill an animal because you want its hide?

...or to test a new drug that may save a human life?

[QUOTE][Maybe man SHOULDN'T do those things but he can do them. Animals are abused every day by being made to do things they would not naturally do./QUOTE]

Animals DO have rights. We don't have the right to decide that they don't.

Animals' rights? It's an interesting topic, but I'm afraid individual animals don't have rights. The good news is they don't have to abide by our laws either. We don't arrest them for killing each other, and we don't deport them when they illegally immigrate to our country.

There are laws against cruelty to animals, but that's where individual animal rights should stop.

I DO think much more substantial rights exist for animals as a species. We should NEVER allow behavior which causes species to become extinct. We have no business destroying something that takes millions of years to come into being. But thank god we have the Endangered Species Act. Nevertheless, this is a big part of the reasoning that makes me so concerned about global warming. Global warming is a unprecedented harm to the diversity of nature; it's sad we care so little.

But back to the topic. The thing I don't get about animal rights' enthusiasts is that they are total hypocrites on this topic. I mean, they become vegetarian to "save animals," but does that mean they don't think plants have rights? Aren't plants just as important as animals. The reality that animal rights enthusiasts don't understand about themselves is that THEY discriminate against life that is less like themselves, too....The less intelligent, furry, and cuddly a creature is, the less likely they are to step up and defend that creature.

If it's ok to kill an animal to eat it, is it ok to kill an animal because you want its hide?

I would say not in this day and age. Most clothing is made of synthetic material now so to kill an animal JUST for it's hide not needed anymore.

I believe MOST people who hunt do actually eat what they kill. My father used to hunt deer and in truth only shot one. But he had the head mounted, and the meat was made into steaks, burgers, and not wasted. There are people who do hunt just for sport, kill the animal and waste everything but the head just as a trophy that they killed it. I don't think that's right either.

Of course as with anything, these are just MY opinions I am offering. Everyone no doubt has strong opinions on the subject.

I'm not an advocate of the death penalty but for animal cruelty, I would make an exception.

Animals' rights? It's an interesting topic, but I'm afraid individual animals don't have rights. The good news is they don't have to abide by our laws either. We don't arrest them for killing each other, and we don't deport them when they illegally immigrate to our country.


I guess we really should have touched on what constitutes a right as far as an animal would be concerned. I am not saying that they should be held to the same laws that we have made for ourselves. Even though in many cases they are.

There have been cases where an animal for whatever reason has begun to feed on people. whether it be too sick or wounded to hunt it's natural prey, the animal is identified and hunted and killed, basically sentenced to death for murder, but only as it pertains to killing humans.

In some cases, we have tried to eradicate a species that is foreign to the environment but was introduced unnaturally. In my view that counts as kind of immigration control. Are they deported? No, they are eradicated, but even that is not for no reason, it is to preserve an ecosystem they are destroying with their presence.

An animal DOES however in my mind have the RIGHT to live it's life FREE from the threat of torture and abuse. That is what I consider their right.

...or to test a new drug that may save a human life?

I don't agree with animal testing by drug companies. It kind of implies that humans have more of a right to life than the animals do. That in my eyes is simply not true. LIFE is LIFE period.

But back to the topic. The thing I don't get about animal rights' enthusiasts is that they are total hypocrites on this topic. I mean, they become vegetarian to "save animals," but does that mean they don't think plants have rights? Aren't plants just as important as animals. The reality that animal rights enthusiasts don't understand about themselves is that THEY discriminate against life that is less like themselves, too....The less intelligent, furry, and cuddly a creature is, the less likely they are to step up and defend that creature.

That's very interesting. I believe plants should also have the right to live. But it doesn't change the fact that every species needs to eat and either eats plants, other animals, or both.

I'm not an advocate of the death penalty but for animal cruelty, I would make an exception.

The electric chair is too good for people who willfully and with deliberate intention abuse and torture animals. They should be tossed in a pit with a couple of hungry tigers and left to contemplate their sins.

:rant:

I grew up on my grandfather's small farm. I have hunted and/or killed for food (although I no longer hunt). I have NO problem with killing (not torturing) animals for food, leather/skins, or for the testing of drugs.

I have two dogs and two cats which I very much enjoy having around, but they are NOT humans and are not afforded rights in my household as such. I do not abuse them, but neither do I treat them like a child... they are NOT human and I actually think they like being treated like what they are. They do not understand much more than "pack" issues (except the cats... who seem to follow their own agenda... lol) and respond best when I keep this in mind.

Does this mean I do not love them? No, but I care about them as pets... not the same as I love my wife and children. Should people abuse pets? Absolutely not, but at the same time... treating them like a child is it's own form of abuse... does anyone think a dog wants to be dressed up like some sort of clown and carried around in a sequined purse?

No wonder so many pets are mentally imbalanced... they are most likely confused... and I can't say I blame them.

Do you even understand how arrogant that statement is? Who the hell is MAN to ALLOW or GIVE or for that matter DENY rights to another life form.

The very notion of "rights" was invented by man.


We do not OWN the planet just because we evolved in a "Intelligent" species.

If not us, who?


And I wonder if in the natural scheme of these our intelligence is so great considering the way we treat the planet.

Until we find something more intelligent than us, we'll have to do. :)


Animals DO have rights. We don't have the right to decide that they don't.

Where do these rights come from?

Quote:
We do not OWN the planet just because we evolved in a "Intelligent" species.


If not us, who?


The answer is simple, NO ONE owns it.

Animals DO have rights. We don't have the right to decide that they don't.


Where do these rights come from?

They were born with them.

I have two dogs and two cats which I very much enjoy having around, but they are NOT humans and are not afforded rights in my household as such. I do not abuse them, but neither do I treat them like a child... they are NOT human and I actually think they like being treated like what they are. They do not understand much more than "pack" issues (except the cats... who seem to follow their own agenda... lol) and respond best when I keep this in mind.

Ah but you are wrong, you have afforded them rights. They have the right to live with you without fear of abuse. And I submit that you DO actually treat them like your children. You think about what they feel:

they are NOT human and I actually think they like being treated like what they are.

You respect them for what they are and allow them to be themselves:

They do not understand much more than "pack" issues (except the cats... who seem to follow their own agenda... lol) and respond best when I keep this in mind.[/

Those are rights my friend and I applaud you for remembering, even if you didn't realize it.

Further the fact that you do not dress them up furthers my argument that you allow them to be themselves. They reward you with acknowledging their rights with companionship, love, and the feeling of mutual respect.

Well couldn't there be a law where criminals recieved the same fate as if they killed a human being?

How do you decide which animals are protected by this law? Only pets? Animals that are intelligent enough? Animals that feel pain? Animals not killed for food? Who can make this decision anyway?

I don't want to be a criminal for running over an animal while driving in the woods or smashing cockroaches in my house.

Can you kill animal in self-defense? What if someone deliberately provoked the animal? It wouldn't be hard.

There are many problems with granting animals rights.

The answer is simple, NO ONE owns it.

I can go along with that, but like all animals, our presence here gives us the right to survive. Although we're just another kind of animal we have the right to be who we are. One of the things we are is a tool-user. This advantage has enabled us to thrive in an environment that previously only allowed us to survive. One of the "tools" we developed and used was the energy available through the use of animals. Where once we hunted every animal that we ate, now we domesticate and raise them in large numbers to be killed or used at our pleasure.


They were born with them.

How can they be born with something that was invented by man? Rights only exist in the mind of man, they aren't passed on through heredity to one's offspring.

Well couldn't there be a law where criminals recieved the same fate as if they killed a human being?

I think that would be a bit extreme, depending on the circumstances. If a person abuses an animal to point it dies, there should be charges brought against them. That to me shows they have little to no regard for life.


I am also NOT talking about running over an animal that runs out into the street. How could anyone prevent that. I also think that killing things like a cockroach in your house is along the lines of self defense. These insects carry and transmit diseases that can kill. Even down to swatting a fly is considered self defence for the same reason.

I think everyone has a problem with animal rights because they think too extreme, and in some cases some people my take it to extremes. But if handled and approached sanely, rationally, and intelligently, we CAN all live and share the planet. We ARE the most intelligent species on the planet, if we can't protect EVERY creature who can?

How can they be born with something that was invented by man? Rights only exist in the mind of man, they aren't passed on through heredity to one's offspring.

I don't believe rights were invented by man. He just decided to call them rights. It was him who decided that rights were only applied to him.

There are rights that ARE passed to every generation of offspring, be they human or animal.

The right to LIVE.

The right to live under natures laws. Most species do. They live their lives as nature intended, killing what they need to kill to eat. Raising their young to carry on the species.

My pets have the privilege of living with me, they have no rights to do so. They are there because I choose to let them. Therefore they have no rights in my home. They "serve at my pleasure", so to speak.

"Rights" are a human issue (something we made up). They do not pertain to the animal world (and many times not to the human world either).

They "serve at my pleasure", so to speak.

Yet another example of human arrogance.

These are more like jobs for which the animals are not tortured but kept fed, sheltered and medically taken care of.

If the animals don't choose of their own free will to be ridden, or kept as pets, or used in any way at all it amounts to animal slavery. So I guess you are okay with slavery for animals if we feed them and take care of them. That seems pretty hypocritical.



This is done for ENTERTAINMENT. The whole practice should be banned by anyone who would even dare to think of themself as intelligent.

Ever been to a circus, Genzo? Did you watch all those slave animals who are kept enslaved in order to entertain you? Have you ever watched America's Funiest Videos where they have videos of slave animals that they show for entertainment? Do you have a pet? If so, why do you have a pet? Is it because you like having animals around? Are you okay with enslaving animals and keeping them in the unnatural environment of your home so you can be entertained?


BS all life has the inherent right to not be tortured or killed for no reason.

We have a responsibility to not torture animals but that does not mean animals have any rights. The decisions are our, not their's.



[Quoyr]Do you even understand how arrogant that statement is? Who the hell is MAN to ALLOW or GIVE or for that matter DENY rights to another life form. We do not OWN the planet just because we evolved in a "Intelligent" species. And I wonder if in the natural scheme of these our intelligence is so great considering the way we treat the planet.[/quote]

Do YOU realize how dumb your statement is? Does a wolf have a right to bring a live rabbit back to its den so its cubs can play with it before it is killed? Doesn't the wolf have a responsibilty to kill the rabbit in the quickest and most painless way possible. Does a leopard seal have a right to play with a penguin it catches rather than instantly killing it?

We DO own the planet. We own it by right of conquest. You may not like it but that's the way it is. I also wonder if our intelligence is so great considering how some people can't differentiate between people and animals and think using animals in medical experiments that can save human lives is wrong. Tell that to the thousands upon thousands who are alive today because of animal experimentation. Tell me that one day in the future when you have a young child who is saved by a medicine that was developed through animal research or by a surgeon who learned his skills by practicing on animals in medical school.

What I find truely arrogant is your willingness to sacrifice other people for the sake of animals.

Yet another example of human arrogance.

You are correct.

Human beings are the dominant and superior species on this planet. Like it or not.

I will never give "human" privileges to an animal. They are not human, and to afford human types of rights and privileges to them is foolhardy.

As Dizzy Dean once said... "it ain't bragging if you can back it up".

I don't believe rights were invented by man.

Where do you believe they come from?


He just decided to call them rights. It was him who decided that rights were only applied to him.

Both statements are excellent evidence that the idea of "rights" is a man-made invention.


There are rights that ARE passed to every generation of offspring, be they human or animal.

Only in those societies that behave as though there are such rights. Strictly a function of man. If our rights came from some outside source, I suspect they'd be divided a little more evenly around the world.


The right to LIVE.

The right to live under natures laws. Most species do. They live their lives as nature intended, killing what they need to kill to eat. Raising their young to carry on the species.

Some people believe I don't live my life "as nature intended". If Nature didn't want us to eat animals, why did she make them all out of meat? ;)

Seriously, the phrase "what nature intended" has been used to justify a great many ideas, both good and bad. I don't think nature has "intentions", but if I did, I could say that nature intended us to subjugate the rest of the animals because nature made us capable of doing so. Not a good argument.

Even those of us who are animal lovers are inadvertantly responsible for a lot of suffering.
This is a video of what happens within the meat and dairy industry.
We certainly need food, but there has to be a better way than this. I don't know what the answer is.

http://www.meat.org/index-1.asp?c=MYMblogadan07

We DO own the planet. We own it by right of conquest.

Spoken like a true conservative! :thumbs:

What I find truely arrogant is your willingness to sacrifice other people for the sake of animals.

And how arrogant is a person's willingness to sacrifice other people for the sake of hurting the guy who said mean things about your daddy (and/or making your rich friends richer)?

Oh, I get it Fran. It is all George Bush's fault. We are talking about animal rights, not George Bush.

You are the one who made the statement that you would kill people who abuse animals. Sounds like you are another of those PETA nuts who care more about animals than people.

Does this mean I do not love them? No, but I care about them as pets... not the same as I love my wife and children. Should people abuse pets? Absolutely not, but at the same time... treating them like a child is it's own form of abuse... does anyone think a dog wants to be dressed up like some sort of clown and carried around in a sequined purse?

No wonder so many pets are mentally imbalanced... they are most likely confused... and I can't say I blame them.

My sister in law has a "dog" like that. Its feet never touch the ground. It wears a bow on its head, has cutesy doggy sweaters, wears doggy booties, and eats better than 99.999999999% of the Earth's population. It gets doggy massages at a mere $60 an hour and has been in therapy for "sadness". It has also had its horoscope cast. It is a Virgo.

It is also a whining, cringing, bad tempered, stupid and disgusting cur. I don't know who is more pathetic--the dog or its owner. The dog would probably be normal if it were treated like a DOG.

We have 2 dogs, 2 cats and a turtle. The dogs are pets but have jobs--they are, mainly, guard dogs. The cats are mostly outside and catch mice and other vermin. Even the turtle eats bugs we don't want around.

They are cared for and loved and an important part of our family. But they are not our kids nor do we treat them as such, and they seem quite happy.

Gasp! I don't believe it, Rendova. You own slave animals. Have you ever enlisted the services of a pet psychic to see if those poor enslaved animals want to live with you. Since animals are no different than humans you are the same as a pre-civil war slaveowner. Many of them said their slaves were well fed and happy too.

Repent, Rendova. Set those poor slave animals free.

Gasp! I don't believe it, Rendova. You own slave animals. Have you ever enlisted the services of a pet psychic to see if those poor enslaved animals want to live with you. Since animals are no different than humans you are the same as a pre-civil war slaveowner. Many of them said their slaves were well fed and happy too.

Repent, Rendova. Set those poor slave animals free.
LOL... Amazing.

I think this thread is ridiculous.

I think this thread is ridiculous.

It has only TURNED ridiculous by people who don't seriously look at the issue.

It has only TURNED ridiculous by people who don't seriously look at the issue.
Such as yourself. It's ridiculous to treat animals the same as humans. Guess what...we're not the same.

It has only TURNED ridiculous by people who don't seriously look at the issue.

I'll ask again. If these "rights" are not granted by man, from where do they come?

It is not that they are granted EVERYTHING has them. Call it god given if you like. But to assume that man rules the world is not only arrogant it's downright foolish.

To think that a man has more right to life than anything else is disgusting and shows that people have a lot to learn about themselves and the world they "Conquered".

It is not that they are granted EVERYTHING has them. Call it god given if you like. But to assume that man rules the world is not only arrogant it's downright foolish.

To think that a man has more right to life than anything else is disgusting and shows that people have a lot to learn about themselves and the world they "Conquered".
I'm sorry if I think I have more of a right to live than a spider or a little fly whose life span is measured in days anyway...

I don't think that animals should be tortured, and I think that anyone who does torture animals should be punished. However, I do think that pets should be spayed and neutered by their owners, and I support putting animals to sleep when they are very old and sick or if they attack a human without provocation.

One time, when i was working with my father at a local vet, i was petting all of the cats and there was one, ill never forget. He was so friendly, rubbed his head against my let, and was just so friendly. Then when it turned around, the poor thing had half of its fur/skin burned off. "My god what happened to you," i said, nearly in tears. The nurse said that since it was a black cat, people liked to do rituals killing black cats...thinking they were work of witches and all that stuff.

Behold!...........the result of being indoctrinated to regard superstition as reality.

ROTFL.



~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."________some Bronze Age compendium of superstitious nonsense

____________________________

A recent Gallup poll showed that 72% of Americans believe that "angels" are real and interact in our daily lives. Yes, angels. Asexual, flying, feathery-winged, translucent metaphysical beings supposedly from outside our sphere of existence, which CNN News spent hours on recently documenting their proficiency at saving lives by deflecting bullets and stopping car crashes. Is it just a coincidence that as we suffer this spiritual revival in America, our kids get dumber, we move further to the Right, the majority of us are less secure in our jobs and homes, and rabid little right-wing nitwits are running the show?

What a sad commentary on humanity.

No.

I'll show you, below, the saddest commentary on humanity you are ever likely to read ---

""But they (animals) have a soul""

Wow, im suprised that this thread is so popular. But i think the main reason i was posting extreme ideas is because i have been emotionally torn concerning pets. None of my 4 pets i have had has never died of natural causes. Of course, none was beaten or burned or anything like that. Wild animals and nature got to them.

but anyways, i was skimming through some of the posts, and i think that animals should deserves some rights.

It's ridiculous to treat animals the same as humans. Guess what...we're not the same.
I guess us animal lovers dont understand that they aren't like us. If you really get close to a cat/dog, you will learn to love them like a brother/sister or one of your closest freinds. and when something happens to them, you cry as if it was your mother.

I guess us animal lovers dont understand that they aren't like us. If you really get close to a cat/dog, you will learn to love them like a brother/sister or one of your closest freinds. and when something happens to them, you cry as if it was your mother.
I, as a child, shared my home with a total of seven cats and two dogs over the years, and now that I live alone, I also have a cat. While I'm quite fond of him, I realize that he is not human and I'm responsible for his well-being, while he is not. This is why I do not allow him outside, I feed him, clean his litter box, and will take him to the vet if he gets sick.

I agree. And i understand that if they die because another animal kills them. Its all about the food chain to those wild animals. But if a animal is under the responsibilty of a abusive owner, it is up to us to get them out of there, and give them a home they deserve.

I agree. And i understand that if they die because another animal kills them. Its all about the food chain to those wild animals. But if a animal is under the responsibilty of a abusive owner, it is up to us to get them out of there, and give them a home they deserve.
Yes, I agree. The problem is finding this abuse. It almost always goes unnoticed.

Yes, I agree. The problem is finding this abuse. It almost always goes unnoticed.
So the question is... what can we do about it?

I guess us animal lovers dont understand that they aren't like us. If you really get close to a cat/dog, you will learn to love them like a brother/sister or one of your closest freinds. and when something happens to them, you cry as if it was your mother.

Alas skinny, I lost my best canine friend of 15 years last fall. She was a companion and she always was there for me. Just because I don't hold animals to the same "level" as humans, does not mean that I did not love her in a man to pet way.

Do not confuse my lack of consideration of animals as humans with rights, with a lack of caring and love for a pet that I spent a joyous part of my life with.

There is nothing wrong with loving your pet. But they are not the same as a human (but that can be good too.... many days that I was pissed at the world, my dog Annie would look at me like I was a saint... and it always helped me as much as I provided and cared for her).

It's ridiculous to treat animals the same as humans. Guess what...we're not the same.


Never did I say that you should treat animals EXACTLY as you treat humans.

You are the one who made the statement that you would kill people who abuse animals.

Jesus. Can you read!? I said that people who intentionally and willfully abuse animals should suffer similar consequences at the animal's discretion.

Sounds like you are another of those PETA nuts who care more about animals than people.

Just goes to show you how wrong you can be (of course, this is nothing new where you're concerned). I think the PETA people are a bunch of nucking futs, and dangerous to boot. They all oughta be locked up.

However, I do think animals are preferable to humans in most cases. I mean, animals don't intentionally and willfully abuse humans, do they? :rolleyes:

Jesus. Can you read!? I said that people who intentionally and willfully abuse animals should suffer similar consequences at the animal's discretion.
What do you mean by this? Are you going to ask the animal what punishment should be given to its tormentor? :confused:

What do you mean by this? Are you going to ask the animal what punishment should be given to its tormentor? :confused:

No. As I've already suggested, the abuser should be put in a cage/pen/pit/whatever with their victims (and/or a creature that can inflict similar physical torment - I mean, someone who, for example, rips the legs off turtles for fun probably won't be in much danger from being put in a pit with a turtle. In cases such as that, I recommend hungry lions and tigers) and left there to rot.

Get it?

No. As I've already suggested, the abuser should be put in a cage/pen/pit/whatever with their victims (and/or a creature that can inflict similar physical torment - I mean, someone who, for example, rips the legs off turtles for fun probably won't be in much danger from being put in a pit with a turtle. In cases such as that, I recommend hungry lions and tigers) and left there to rot.

Get it?
Gee, I'm sorry if I don't remember one individual post in five pages of a thread... Sorrrry.

I made a forum dedicated to all pets and such so if you want to visit it the link is http://pets.brightforums.com . I hope we can have a good discussion on it.

And do you think that the USA can ever reduce the rate of animal cruelty?

No. As I've already suggested, the abuser should be put in a cage/pen/pit/whatever with their victims (and/or a creature that can inflict similar physical torment - I mean, someone who, for example, rips the legs off turtles for fun probably won't be in much danger from being put in a pit with a turtle. In cases such as that, I recommend hungry lions and tigers) and left there to rot.

Get it?
I just swatted a mosquito. I guess I deserve to be sat on by an elephant.

I just swatted a mosquito. I guess I deserve to be sat on by an elephant.

If you're ignorant enough to believe that, I guess you do.

I just swatted a mosquito. I guess I deserve to be sat on by an elephant.


:lolhit:

Haha that was great.

If you're ignorant enough to believe that, I guess you do.But isn't that what you said should happen to people who harm animals? That they be punished by an animal?

If you want to help reduce animal cruelty, go to this potition at http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/animals4

So the question is... what can we do about it?


maybe next time you see an animal you feel is being abused,call your local animal control. Believe it or not,there are entire forces in almost every major city devoted to just animals and people who abuse them. Alot of the problem with this is the plain fact that people just don't want to get involved cause it's time consuming and theres also fear of retribution by the animals owner.