Well I love you Ty!!!!


Now will you date me online since Mr. Nappy won't?
This is getting interesting..........

Well I love you Ty!!!!


Now will you date me online since Mr. Nappy won't?

Absolutely sweetie...and I love you too.

Dontcha know this is gonna drive Ride over the edge ;)

DO NOT EVERRRRRRRR CALL ME SWEETIE AGAIN.....JERK!!

You don't know jacksh*t about me and you never will, so don't go analyzing me. YOU have NO IDEA what I'm all about or what all I've been through in all my years of life.

My 3rd paragraph in no way indicated anyone was scared OR lonely....can you NOT read?? I said they grew apart....it was because of the lives they each led....you know....work, social lives, etc. Being scared and/or lonely had absolutely NOTHING to do with this.

Go back to kindergarten and git yerself sum lernin before you come back in here trying to TEACH us about life!!!!!!!
Sweetie, the next time I seriously give a shit about teaching people, rather than sharing ideas and understandings, I'll have a handwritten tag on my toe and I'll be well on my way to the great jerk-hall in the sky.

I know what I know and I know what I would like to know. Happy and well-adjusted is quite the opposite of scared and lonely, but the two meld together like a chocolate and vanilla swirl. It's hard to have one without the other. I've got a great job I'm often afraid to lose. I've got great friends that I'm often afraid of losing. I've got a good, cheap apartment where I live alone and can afford a lot of free time and reflection, that I often fear losing. That fear keeps us alive and vital. It makes you do things to cement the great things in life, and avoid the bad things. If the fear wasn't there, if the occasional feelings of loneliness weren't present, we'd never do anything to safeguard the great things in our life.

Guess I need to put my two cents in here on this convo too......

I married my best friend almost 32 years ago (us rednecks marry REALLY young) and yes, we are still married today.

Monogamy is not all it's cracked up to be BUT if you want your marriage to last forever, and the only ones that don't are the divorce lawyers, you have to be able to control yourself and your urges. With that said, it's NOT always that easy to do. Things happen, people change, desires change, and sometimes, you find yourself looking elsewhere for things that are missing in your life. SOMETIMES, not always, that is sex. Other times, it's just a matter of someone actually recognizing that you are a person, with feelings and emotions. Sometimes, all you need is a little true companionship....someone to talk to, someone to laugh with or someone to hold you while you cry on their shoulder. IF that someone you turn to is of the opposite sex it might lead to places you are not ready to go but you do it anyway.

Which, brings me to a question I would like to pose to the audience......IF you were to find yourself in the above predicament and you turn to someone other than your spouse/partner/S.O for some comfort, but, you KNOW you love your spouse, would you tell them afterwards? Would you confess to them what you had done and why you did it? And if you did, would you expect your partner to forgive and forget? What if the tables were turned....could you forgive and forget?

Good question. From what I've read....given the limited perception of what my mind absorbs -- the general consensus of the "experts" (tongue in cheek) -- it appears that the telling and or confessing does nothing but alleviate the perpetrator's own mind and ultimately hurts the s/o.

my 2 cents.....if you feel you gotta cheat,theres something wrong with your relationship in the first place. Either try to fix it or get out of it cause I don't care if you tell the other person or not....they ALWAYS know.

Which, brings me to a question I would like to pose to the audience......IF you were to find yourself in the above predicament and you turn to someone other than your spouse/partner/S.O for some comfort, but, you KNOW you love your spouse, would you tell them afterwards?
Yes.
Would you confess to them what you had done and why you did it? Yes.

And if you did, would you expect your partner to forgive and forget? No.

What if the tables were turned....could you forgive and forget? I don't know.

For me, partnership is about love, growth, and trust. I can not be what I am not. I am what I appear to be. To hide what I had done would be to hide who I am. If I need to hide who I am, I cannot be in that relationship, it would not be real and thus it would be over.

Thus I would need to come clean. We would then need to work on mending what was broken. I could not pretend there was not something broken the violation would be too big.

I can not ask another to forgive nor forget a betrayal. That would need to be his choice. If he could not, then we must separate. Regardless of being forgiven, it is never forgotten which is why there must be repair. Once something is done there is no undoing it... there is no pretending...only healing or not.

I do not know if I could forgive him. One thing is for certain, I would know. I know when he is having a bad day even before he knows.

I also know I would want him to tell me. Were he to attempt to hide it, then he is not the man I want to be with. An attempt to hide it would indicate to me that he was placing himself and his fear ahead of me and what we have made together.

I personally think people can survive and rise above an affair. If handled properly it can contribute to making your relationship stronger.

That's a very poor generalization to base such a claim on. Men are not mindless sex animals. Nor are women the ridiculously over-complicated basket cases illustrated. These are fronts put forth by both men and women when, if you look a little deeper, you find that the opposite often holds reign. Real truth in this area is harder to come by than a little bit of folk wisdom.

Yes and no Nappy. Nothing is ever as simple as it would seem. But generalizations help us to understand that sometimes things can be simple. And human beings are similar.
There are always exceptions to every rule.

At a quick glance there is much truth there. And maybe when all the crap is stripped away it is pretty close to what happens between the sexes in general.

Mike already has her:lolhit:
:)

:lolhit:

I dont date virgins
why not? you were one once too....a long time ago...:lolhit:








(i'm going to pay dearly for that, aren't i?)

But generalizations help us to understand that sometimes things can be simple.
I'm all about the power and utility of generalizations, believe me. But I make a distinction between good generalizations and bad ones. That one is a bad one, in my opinion. It perpetuates flawed gender stereotypes. It isn't even a very good model for what goes on. At first glance, it seems to validate a lot of people's life experiences. But it isn't useful. To make conclusions based on that rule is to only look at the surface, and not try to really understand the other person. It isn't a simple case of there being exceptions to the rule. It's a case of the whole rule being flawed.

It all depends on the relationship and those involved... to say that "owning up" to an affair is right/wrong is based on the situation/relationship.

If life was that easy, then we could just "read a book" on it.... lol

I'm all about the power and utility of generalizations, believe me. But I make a distinction between good generalizations and bad ones. That one is a bad one, in my opinion. It perpetuates flawed gender stereotypes. It isn't even a very good model for what goes on. At first glance, it seems to validate a lot of people's life experiences. But it isn't useful. To make conclusions based on that rule is to only look at the surface, and not try to really understand the other person. It isn't a simple case of there being exceptions to the rule. It's a case of the whole rule being flawed.

But is has generated a lot of discussion and that is a good thing.

Any generalization is going to validate a lot of people's life experiences. That's how it got to be a generalization. One does not draw hard, solid conclusions from generalizations because once examined they are always flawed.

Give me a good generalization then about the sexes that you believe is not flawed and is a good model for what goes on...

It all depends on the relationship and those involved... to say that "owning up" to an affair is right/wrong is based on the situation/relationship.

If life was that easy, then we could just "read a book" on it.... lol

*opens book and starts reading*

*waves to pharty on the way out*

Give me a good generalization then about the sexes that you believe is not flawed and is a good model for what goes on...
Men typically look first at a woman's looks, second at her personality. Women look first at a man's personality, second at his looks.

This isn't to say that personality isn't important to a man, but that he looks at that second. But for women, it may well happen that looks aren't very important to her at all.

Men typically look first at a woman's looks, second at her personality. Women look first at a man's personality, second at his looks.

This isn't to say that personality isn't important to a man, but that he looks at that second. But for women, it may well happen that looks aren't very important to her at all.


I believe there is a flaw in your generalization here Nappy....either that or I'm not your typical woman because I look first at a man's looks. That's what draws my attention first. If he has "the look" that I go for, there is the initial attraction for me. THEN I try to find out more about him and his "personality". Looks are VERY important to BOTH sexes....some women may not own up to that, but they are only kidding themselves.

I do not typically look at a man's personality first and then his looks. There's has to be a draw and the draw is in presentation.

Case in point...

Here's a generalization I think can hold it's own....

People who are a 6 attract 6's. People who are 10's are attracted to other 10's. For the most part people are attracted to and attract "like" as far as looks go.

Rarely if ever would you see a 2 with a 10.

People who are a 6 attract 6's. People who are 10's are attracted to other 10's. For the most part people are attracted to and attract "like" as far as looks go.

Rarely if ever would you see a 2 with a 10.

...unless that "2" had 10 million dollars. :D

...unless that "2" had 10 million dollars. :D


I'm sorry,even 10 million dollars won't make me date you if you look like a horses ass

I believe there is a flaw in your generalization here Nappy....either that or I'm not your typical woman because I look first at a man's looks. That's what draws my attention first. If he has "the look" that I go for, there is the initial attraction for me. THEN I try to find out more about him and his "personality". Looks are VERY important to BOTH sexes....some women may not own up to that, but they are only kidding themselves.
Okay, let's draw a distinction here. What is *the look*? Can you elaborate? I'd be willing to wager that you probably look more at the way the man moves, the way he dresses, and how he carries himself, as opposed to the physical beauty of his features.

I do not typically look at a man's personality first and then his looks. There's has to be a draw and the draw is in presentation.

Case in point...

Here's a generalization I think can hold it's own....

People who are a 6 attract 6's. People who are 10's are attracted to other 10's. For the most part people are attracted to and attract "like" as far as looks go.

Rarely if ever would you see a 2 with a 10.
This is true, but the man is the one that makes the initial moves in a relationship. The woman is the ultimate qualifier, who decides whether they proceed or not. So, it's more a statement of what men look for than what women. I've seen many many incredibly beautiful women with guys that don't look like all that much. like sevens and eights with fours.

Women will look at what I said earlier, a man's presentation. This gives clues as to his character and personality. Not the gorgeousness of his features in general. As opposed to men, who innately look at things like the waist to hip ratio, breast size, and other classic signs of fertility.

I'm sorry,even 10 million dollars won't make me date you if you look like a horses ass

I didn't say that all women would... but there are more than a few that do/did.

Reminds me of this old joke...

A man approaches a woman in a bar and asks "Will you have sex with me for one million dollars?".

She thinks for a minute, and replies "Sure"

Then he asks "How about for ten dollars?"

To which she angrily replies "NO! What do you think I am... a prostitute?"

He says "We have already determined that, we are just haggling over the price now"

This is true, but the man is the one that makes the initial moves in a relationship. The woman is the ultimate qualifier, who decides whether they proceed or not. So, it's more a statement of what men look for than what women. I've seen many many incredibly beautiful women with guys that don't look like all that much. like sevens and eights with fours.

Women will look at what I said earlier, a man's presentation. This gives clues as to his character and personality. Not the gorgeousness of his features in general. As opposed to men, who innately look at things like the waist to hip ratio, breast size, and other classic signs of fertility.
You have a very good point there. I'd give myself an 8, maybe an 8.5 on a good day (though I've heard 9s and 10s ;)). My boyfriend is, and I'm trying to be objective here, no more than a 7. He's a not a "hottie" or a "hunk" or "sexy". I'm pretty sure I was initially attracted, not to purely physical qualities, but to those physical hints to his personality.

Okay, let's draw a distinction here. What is *the look*? Can you elaborate? I'd be willing to wager that you probably look more at the way the man moves, the way he dresses, and how he carries himself, as opposed to the physical beauty of his features.


Nope....you're wrong again Nappy, darlin.... "The Look" for me is a man that's at least 6' tall, with a good build, nice smile, nice green or hazel eyes, salt & pepper hair and a deep voice.

The second thing I look at is the way he carries himself.....i.e. does he dress nice, does he walk slouched over, is he loud, obnoxious, etc.

Next, if it gets that far, we do the "talking" thing....that's when you find out about the personality, or lack thereof.

This is true, but the man is the one that makes the initial moves in a relationship. The woman is the ultimate qualifier, who decides whether they proceed or not. So, it's more a statement of what men look for than what women. I've seen many many incredibly beautiful women with guys that don't look like all that much. like sevens and eights with fours.

Women will look at what I said earlier, a man's presentation. This gives clues as to his character and personality. Not the gorgeousness of his features in general. As opposed to men, who innately look at things like the waist to hip ratio, breast size, and other classic signs of fertility.


Sorry....but WRONG again. In each of my relationships...I'VE been the one that initiated things, not the man.

As for your statement about "incredibly beautiful women with guys that don't look like all that much"....MOST of the time they are like that because the women in question want someone who will worship the ground they walk on and, let's face it, a man that would rank an 8 or higher, more than likely, would not because they would think the woman should be worshipping them....vicious circle, if ya ask me.

That's why I think looks are not all that important....YES, I know they play a very important part, even to me, but in all honesty, they shouldn't because like the old saying goes....."Looks are only skin deep".

As for your statement about "incredibly beautiful women with guys that don't look like all that much"....MOST of the time they are like that because the women in question want someone who will worship the ground they walk on and, let's face it, a man that would rank an 8 or higher, more than likely, would not because they would think the woman should be worshipping them....vicious circle, if ya ask me.
I'd give you that in the attractive guy, ho-hum girl, but in the opposite, most of the time the guy just has a magnetic personality that the girl can't help but be attracted to. All of the really attractive women I meet, girls that get hit on all the time, get very tired of being worshipped, and while they've had that phase in their relationships, they grow out of it, and start looking for a "real man." This is someone who doesn't give all their power and masculinity away to the woman and knows how to tease her and make her feel good. That kind of man is very rare, because most men turn into blubbering idiots in their presence.

Sorry....but WRONG again. In each of my relationships...I'VE been the one that initiated things, not the man.
It happens from time to time, but it's rare. Also, I find that while a lot of women will make that claim, most of them only really think they are. Most of the time, the guy makes initial contact, and breaks through resistance. After this happens, he knows he can step away for awhile and let the women come to him, which they often will if they find him attractive. This move is calculated to let the woman feel she's the one making things happen. But it's the guy that's in control.

Guys who are good with women are very good at this sort of push-pull interacting, and the women never fully understand what's going on. Not that they would want to, cause it would take away the magic.

First of all, true happiness doesn't come from without; it comes from within. Only when you love yourself can you truly love someone else, and properly receive love in return. If you're not happy and content with yourself, you'll never be happy and content with someone else. I think this is one big reason why so many relationships ultimately fail - people expecting someone else to fulfill them or make them "whole."

Secondly, being alone doesn't necessarily mean being lonely. Not even close.

Third, love and sex are both highly overrated. Many of the comments in this thread bear that out. Companionship is the thing to work for in a relationship.

Fourth, I find it quite humorous when people with no "serious" relationships on their dance card start pontificating on how things work between the sexes.

Finally, it's women who hold all the high cards in the game of love/romance (and make no mistake, it is a game). Every time. Why? Because when it's all said and done, we're the ones who make the babies. Think about it. :)

I've got a great job I'm often afraid to lose. I've got great friends that I'm often afraid of losing. I've got a good, cheap apartment where I live alone and can afford a lot of free time and reflection, that I often fear losing. That fear keeps us alive and vital. It makes you do things to cement the great things in life, and avoid the bad things. If the fear wasn't there, if the occasional feelings of loneliness weren't present, we'd never do anything to safeguard the great things in our life.

Wow.

You are one seriously messed up individual. I got depressed just reading that. Must suck to be you. :(

Men typically look first at a woman's looks, second at her personality. Women look first at a man's personality, second at his looks.

This isn't to say that personality isn't important to a man, but that he looks at that second. But for women, it may well happen that looks aren't very important to her at all.

For me, looks matter whether I'm looking for a woman or man. If they don't have it, I don't bother wasting my time with them. I'm shallow like that I guess. Then their personality comes into play.
I've met some beautiful women, but some were bitches and I wanted nothing to do with them, same if a guy is an arrogant ass, tata.

Wow.

You are one seriously messed up individual. I got depressed just reading that. Must suck to be you. :(
Heh, what makes you say that?

Heh, what makes you say that?

Because you live in fear. Self-imposed fear, I might add. And that's not living, friend.

Here's one important lesson I've learned in my nearly 50 years on the skin of this earth: Enjoy everything and everyone in your life TODAY. Worry about tomorrow when it comes.*

DON'T LIVE IN FEAR OF WHAT *MIGHT* HAPPEN because if it never does, you've just wasted your time and energy on nothing. You could have been laughing and smiling instead. And if something bad does come your way, you'll get through it. The world will still turn. :)


* Hint: Tomorrow never comes. It's always "today" so make the best of it. Do what makes you happy and share that happiness with those you care about. Ignore those who try to bring you down - the only one who can do that is YOU.

Heh. I don't live in fear. I do fear these things though. That fear keeps me from getting complacent. If there's one thing I've learned in my 23, soon to be 24 years here, it's that you have to fight for the things you want. Fight constantly. The enemy here is your own mind. Your own complacency, your own ignorance. A person will, without thinking, sabotage himself and everything that he's worked hard for. For nothing more than a petty ego trip. And if people come to depend on you, which anyone who has anything will end up doing, you'll have left these people out in the cold.

Worse than sabotaging what you already have, is sabotaging what you could have. That's a much more dangerous, insidious enemy. You could go all your life enjoying the present and never working towards that future you've always wanted. Then when you get old, you wonder why you let your idealism get the better of you. You could have been so busy smiling and laughing that you never bothered to try to contribute to the world. Then when you get old, you wonder why your life felt hollow. You had good times with people, but you never reached out and created anything.

Today you have nothing, and if you never think about tomorrow, than tomorrow you will have nothing as well.

Most of our moments are incredibly dull. Driving to and fro, doing meaningless drudge work, having pointless conversations. The trick to life is turning all those meaningless moments into learning moments. Always having something you want to learn or accomplish out of this moment. Always keeping your eye on the ball, instead of the crowd. The present, usually sucks, and theres not much in the way of attitude adjustment you can do to escape that. Just make sure you are doing something that will make the next moment sweeter, and when that moment comes, it will be all the more fulfilling.

Heh. I don't live in fear. I do fear these things though. That fear keeps me from getting complacent. If there's one thing I've learned in my 23, soon to be 24 years here, it's that you have to fight for the things you want. Fight constantly. The enemy here is your own mind. Your own complacency, your own ignorance. A person will, without thinking, sabotage himself and everything that he's worked hard for. For nothing more than a petty ego trip. And if people come to depend on you, which anyone who has anything will end up doing, you'll have left these people out in the cold.

Worse than sabotaging what you already have, is sabotaging what you could have. That's a much more dangerous, insidious enemy. You could go all your life enjoying the present and never working towards that future you've always wanted. Then when you get old, you wonder why you let your idealism get the better of you. You could have been so busy smiling and laughing that you never bothered to try to contribute to the world. Then when you get old, you wonder why your life felt hollow. You had good times with people, but you never reached out and created anything.

Today you have nothing, and if you never think about tomorrow, than tomorrow you will have nothing as well.

Most of our moments are incredibly dull. Driving to and fro, doing meaningless drudge work, having pointless conversations. The trick to life is turning all those meaningless moments into learning moments. Always having something you want to learn or accomplish out of this moment. Always keeping your eye on the ball, instead of the crowd. The present, usually sucks, and theres not much in the way of attitude adjustment you can do to escape that. Just make sure you are doing something that will make the next moment sweeter, and when that moment comes, it will be all the more fulfilling.

I didn't say don't think about tomorrow. I said don't worry about it.

BIG difference.

The enemy here is your own mind.

Now you're getting it.



P.S. You still sound like you live in fear.

Now you're getting it.
Now? No, now you're getting it.

P.S. You still sound like you live in fear.
*shrugs* I love the fear.

Fourth, I find it quite humorous when people with no "serious" relationships on their dance card start pontificating on how things work between the sexes


from the sounds of some of the responses here,it seems almost everyone has had at least one serious relationship in their life and therefore can offer advice or whatnot. Not being in one at this very second doesn't and shouldn't matter.

...unless that "2" had 10 million dollars. :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichelleG.
I'm sorry,even 10 million dollars won't make me date you if you look like a horses ass

Actually I think he is right. There are many gold diggers out there.

Which is why a generalization is only "generally true"

Look at Hugh Heffner as an example with his "three" partners. That was an interesting interview to watch. They are all gorgeous women. He on the other hand definetly had his day but if it were merely about "looks" or even true love or companionship... this little foursome would not exist.

But they are not average people.

Exceptions always exist.

This is true, but the man is the one that makes the initial moves in a relationship. The woman is the ultimate qualifier, who decides whether they proceed or not..
Generally yes.

So, it's more a statement of what men look for than what women. I've seen many many incredibly beautiful women with guys that don't look like all that much. like sevens and eights with fours. Yes but we were talking about generalizations and those which had merit. You can't switch horses mid stream...

Oh course some beautiful women are with homely men. But not poor homely men.

But I digress how does this dismiss my generalization?

Actually I think he is right. There are many gold diggers out there.

Which is why a generalization is only "generally true"

Look at Hugh Heffner as an example with his "three" partners. That was an interesting interview to watch. They are all gorgeous women. He on the other hand definetly had his day but if it were merely about "looks" or even true love or companionship... this little foursome would not exist.

But they are not average people.

Exceptions always exist.


I'm not saying it don't happen or isn't true,just saying the amount of money someone has isn't a factor for myself.
If that's what floats others boats.....go for it,have fun:)

First of all, true happiness doesn't come from without; it comes from within. Only when you love yourself can you truly love someone else, and properly receive love in return. If you're not happy and content with yourself, you'll never be happy and content with someone else. I think this is one big reason why so many relationships ultimately fail - people expecting someone else to fulfill them or make them "whole."
Absolutely true!

Secondly, being alone doesn't necessarily mean being lonely. Not even close. And being with someone doesn't mean that people are not lonely either. I would rather be alone and feel lonely than be with a partner and feel lonely. That is the ultimate trap.

Third, love and sex are both highly overrated. Many of the comments in this thread bear that out. Companionship is the thing to work for in a relationship. Frannie this statement is way too vague. Love is not highly overrated. Love is the basis of everything good and balanced and right. Love can not be overrated as nothing trumps it...nothing. Be it between a parent and child, two friends or a partnership... nothing is greater than knowing one loves and is loved in return.

Companionship can be an off shoot of love. When we are speaking of two adults companionship of course must exist in a loving relationship. Love is about growth. I love my partner more as time goes by and as we grow and learn together.

Fourth, I find it quite humorous when people with no "serious" relationships on their dance card start pontificating on how things work between the sexes. While everyone has a right to their opinion which can be quite rational and correct in many circumstances... human nature is fickle ain't it. :D




Finally, it's women who hold all the high cards in the game of love/romance (and make no mistake, it is a game). Every time. Why? Because when it's all said and done, we're the ones who make the babies. Think about it. :) Or not... power of choice.

I'm not saying it don't happen or isn't true,just saying the amount of money someone has isn't a factor for myself.
If that's what floats others boats.....go for it,have fun:)

Okay now you have made me curious... my mother had a line that used to bug the crap out of me when I was young... it goes like this: "it is just as easy to fall in love with a rich man and overlook his faults as it is to fall in love with a poor man and overlook his faults."

The older I have gotten and the more money I have earned and accumulated the more I agree....

Do you agree?

OK, Here's a joke to reveal how i see it.

How do you know you are living with a hooker?

She stops wanting to have sex with you when you stop bringing money home.

I'm not saying it don't happen or isn't true,just saying the amount of money someone has isn't a factor for myself.
If that's what floats others boats.....go for it,have fun:)

Hummmm. So are you saying you'd date a homeless man if you found him attractive?


yes Sal,
Money always comes into play in any relationship, a need for some kind of security.
Thank god for pre-nups, hehehehehe.

Love is not highly overrated. Love is the basis of everything good and balanced and right. Love can not be overrated as nothing trumps it...nothing. Be it between a parent and child, two friends or a partnership... nothing is greater than knowing one loves and is loved in return.

That's sort of my point. How many people can state with absolute certainty that the love they give/feel for another is equally reciprocated? Judging from divorce rates, less than half. Judging from all the sturm und drang associated with typical relationships in the world, damned few. Judging from the amount of domestic violence, widespread infidelity, etc., not enough to make it worthwhile for the average human.

Of course, this is just my opinion. :)

I spent 11 years with one guy, loved him unhesitatingly, gave everything I had and more. But he was deeply insecure, and nothing I did could overcome that. I believe he loved me too, but wasn't able to show/share it in any reasonable or consistent way, and despite 11 years of total dedication to that "love," I have to say the whole experience was incredibly overrated. I was in a constant state of upset and unease, distraction and worry, despite the very strong love we felt for each other.

I spent five years with another guy, loved him unhesitatingly, gave everything I had and more. But he simply couldn't commit, despite his very strong love for me. He never cheated on me (of that I'm certain), and I sincerely believe he never even considered it, but he just couldn't dedicate himself to the love he felt for me. For those reasons, that relationship was also doomed, and not because we didn't love one another.

I'm not bitter or unhapppy about how things turned out in the least. In fact, I'm happier now (on my own and dedicated to staying that way) than I've ever been, and part of that is because I finally figured out that love won't necessarily make you a happy, healthy individual. The sooner other people realize this (that true happiness in life does NOT come from someone else), the sooner they'll be happy and content with their own lives.

Yes, love can be grand, but it is FAR from what makes or breaks a relationship. In point of fact, love isn't everything. Not even close. So, in that sense, I feel it is highly overrated.

That's sort of my point. How many people can state with absolute certainty that the love they give/feel for another is equally reciprocated? Judging from divorce rates, less than half. Judging from all the sturm und drang associated with typical relationships in the world, damned few. Judging from the amount of domestic violence, widespread infidelity, etc., not enough to make it worthwhile for the average human.

Of course, this is just my opinion. :)

I spent 11 years with one guy, loved him unhesitatingly, gave everything I had and more. But he was deeply insecure, and nothing I did could overcome that. I believe he loved me too, but wasn't able to show/share it in any reasonable or consistent way, and despite 11 years of total dedication to that "love," I have to say the whole experience was incredibly overrated. I was in a constant state of upset and unease, distraction and worry, despite the very strong love we felt for each other.

I spent five years with another guy, loved him unhesitatingly, gave everything I had and more. But he simply couldn't commit, despite his very strong love for me. He never cheated on me (of that I'm certain), and I sincerely believe he never even considered it, but he just couldn't dedicate himself to the love he felt for me. For those reasons, that relationship was also doomed, and not because we didn't love one another.

I'm not bitter or unhapppy about how things turned out in the least. In fact, I'm happier now (on my own and dedicated to staying that way) than I've ever been, and part of that is because I finally figured out that love won't necessarily make you a happy, healthy individual. The sooner other people realize this (that true happiness in life does NOT come from someone else), the sooner they'll be happy and content with their own lives.

Yes, love can be grand, but it is FAR from what makes or breaks a relationship. In point of fact, love isn't everything. Not even close. So, in that sense, I feel it is highly overrated.

Okay I hear what you are saying. Love is not enough to make or break a relationship. It's like these fools who tell me they "love the guy unconditionally". That is utter crap and they need to give their head a shake before he slams theirs up against the wall. Love is conditional. Love is very, very conditional upon how one is treated.

Only pets and kids should receive unconditional love.

But it is still the ultimate when one can find it.

I too had a relationship where the guy just couldn't accept that he was loved. He was too heady and had been abused too much, first by his mother and then by his X. If I'd had a PHd he would have been okay with me though. The academic world is very political. But love wasn't enough for him either. Broke my heart for sure... thank God I got rid of that poor dysfunctional man. Freed me up for where I am now.

Love is often not enough. But then all the warning signs of a doomed relationship are right out there in the open within the first three weeks. At least I can always spot the problems. Doesn't mean I don't ignore or excuse or deny but they are always present.

Can't say I will ever agree with you on the overrated though.

Hummmm. So are you saying you'd date a homeless man if you found him attractive?


yes Sal,
Money always comes into play in any relationship, a need for some kind of security.
Thank god for pre-nups, hehehehehe.

Yep money is a biggie. Can't deny it and if one does, well it leads to disaster.

Oh course some beautiful women are with homely men. But not poor homely men.
I would say it happens a lot more than the converse.

But I digress how does this dismiss my generalization?
It doesn't. I was thinking you were trying to dismiss my own generalization with it, so I was showing how your statement was a validation of my statement. If I had thought it was invalid, I would have said, "No. but..."

Nappy has a good point.

Men are most often attracted by looks and women by other things. It is at least partially a biological imperitive.

Men want a woman who can bear lots of kids so they look for women with large breast and wide hips (ie, a good butt). Women on the other hand are looking for men who can take care of them and any children they bear so they are looking for a powerful man. In today's society power is usually equated with money so women are more attracted by wealth in a potential spouse than are men.

There are exceptions but this is how it generally works.

o.k,my views aren't being expressed well enough so people can understand what I'm trying to say.


Looks and how much money you make are not issues to me. Everyone is beautiful and everyone is rich in their own way. That said.....yes somewhere in the relationship money is going to be brought up. If the couple plans to live together you have to figure out the bills and other such things. In my opinion,when I first meet someone I may or may not want to date,I'm not going to ask "how much money do you make?" Unless I see a relationship turing into a potential long term thing,I don't care or feel the need to know how much a person makes.

Look at Hugh Heffner as an example with his "three" partners. That was an interesting interview to watch. They are all gorgeous women. He on the other hand definetly had his day but if it were merely about "looks" or even true love or companionship... this little foursome would not exist.

But they are not average people.

Exceptions always exist.
You know, I've watched that Girls Next Door show, and I think they actually have a pretty good life. I'm too jealous a person to live that kind of life but if you can handle that I think a relationship with more than 2 people might actually have more perks than downsides.

Thoughts?

hmmm....... ok, when 2 people are together , at first, they are having sex at almost any opportunity they can get. over the years it dies off. i've seen a lot of relationships break up after the sex dies off and one person says, to hell with it and found someone else, and they were back to the sex at every opportunity again. then the original couple breaks up. sometimes these couples are best firends, got along great, and worked as a good team, BUT the sex dies off and one gets a lover , someone gets jealous, and bam, divorce.

if people would get over their jealousy and see that sex is just sex, it is not the actual relationship itself. a relationship is far more than just sex. i believe that if people have a sexlife that just isn't there anymore, they should talk, see if they can do something to spice it up and therefor make them want sex more often. if that doesn't work, then you find a lover. and don't let that break up an otherwise great relationship.

i went through hell, because the wife's sex drive couldn't keep up with mine. i eventually looked for sex elsewhere, no luck. and now her sex drive still doesn't match mine, but mine has died off enough to where it is now tolerable. or maybe i just mentally switched something off because i know i can't get laid elsewhere. i won't know which is which until maybe a lady i like asked for sex. until then............ hobbies, pot, hunting, gardening, hobbies and more pot keep my mind off it.

hmmm....... ok, when 2 people are together , at first, they are having sex at almost any opportunity they can get. over the years it dies off. i've seen a lot of relationships break up after the sex dies off and one person says, to hell with it and found someone else, and they were back to the sex at every opportunity again. then the original couple breaks up. sometimes these couples are best firends, got along great, and worked as a good team, BUT the sex dies off and one gets a lover , someone gets jealous, and bam, divorce.

if people would get over their jealousy and see that sex is just sex, it is not the actual relationship itself. a relationship is far more than just sex. i believe that if people have a sexlife that just isn't there anymore, they should talk, see if they can do something to spice it up and therefor make them want sex more often. if that doesn't work, then you find a lover. and don't let that break up an otherwise great relationship.

i went through hell, because the wife's sex drive couldn't keep up with mine. i eventually looked for sex elsewhere, no luck. and now her sex drive still doesn't match mine, but mine has died off enough to where it is now tolerable. or maybe i just mentally switched something off because i know i can't get laid elsewhere. i won't know which is which until maybe a lady i like asked for sex. until then............ hobbies, pot, hunting, gardening, hobbies and more pot keep my mind off it.


Or maybe you should talk with her about why her desire is so low...because sometimes there are plenty of reasons for it. And it has nothing to do with not wanting sex.

hmmm....... ok, when 2 people are together , at first, they are having sex at almost any opportunity they can get. over the years it dies off. i've seen a lot of relationships break up after the sex dies off and one person says, to hell with it and found someone else, and they were back to the sex at every opportunity again. then the original couple breaks up. sometimes these couples are best firends, got along great, and worked as a good team, BUT the sex dies off and one gets a lover , someone gets jealous, and bam, divorce.

if people would get over their jealousy and see that sex is just sex, it is not the actual relationship itself. a relationship is far more than just sex. i believe that if people have a sexlife that just isn't there anymore, they should talk, see if they can do something to spice it up and therefor make them want sex more often. if that doesn't work, then you find a lover. and don't let that break up an otherwise great relationship.

i went through hell, because the wife's sex drive couldn't keep up with mine. i eventually looked for sex elsewhere, no luck. and now her sex drive still doesn't match mine, but mine has died off enough to where it is now tolerable. or maybe i just mentally switched something off because i know i can't get laid elsewhere. i won't know which is which until maybe a lady i like asked for sex. until then............ hobbies, pot, hunting, gardening, hobbies and more pot keep my mind off it.

Or maybe, God forbid, you're not all that good a lover, PM?

I hear alot of ME ME ME in your post, but not much about HER HER HER.

Women are fickle creatures when it comes to sex. We want the same thing men want... satisfaction. A woman who doesn't get that soon tires of going thru the motions. But will she ASK FOR WHAT SHE WANTS? Not usually.

After a typical 'OK, go ahead' session one time, I said to my partner, "One of these days I'm gonna find me a man who believes a woman should be satisfied EVERYTIME they make love."

Know what he said?

"Good luck with that."

Oh, and BTW, he ain't around any more... and finding one who knew how to please a woman wasn't actually as tough as he thought it would be.

Maybe it's time for the old dog to learn some new tricks, eh?

;)
SMW

Or maybe, God forbid, you're not all that good a lover, PM?

I hear alot of ME ME ME in your post, but not much about HER HER HER.

Women are fickle creatures when it comes to sex. We want the same thing men want... satisfaction. A woman who doesn't get that soon tires of going thru the motions. But will she ASK FOR WHAT SHE WANTS? Not usually.

After a typical 'OK, go ahead' session one time, I said to my partner, "One of these days I'm gonna find me a man who believes a woman should be satisfied EVERYTIME they make love."

Know what he said?

"Good luck with that."

Oh, and BTW, he ain't around any more... and finding one who knew how to please a woman wasn't actually as tough as he thought it would be.

Maybe it's time for the old dog to learn some new tricks, eh?

;)
SMW


My point exactly....I just gave the short answer!

And honestly...she could be out with her someone else and thats why her sex drive is low at home. Woman do tend to find "it" a lot easier then men...hence him saying he couldn't find any.

I've proposed to have a Relationship section on allforums before. And I think it should be brought back to attention. It's a very popular category on all kinds of online forums.

I've proposed to have a Relationship section on allforums before. And I think it should be brought back to attention. It's a very popular category on all kinds of online forums.
I agree Dio. we need a place for the horn dogs and hussies to hang out.
A place for the men that dont know how to make a relationship work and for the women that know how to wreck them.
A place where all guys have 10's and girls have double D's.

I agree Dio. we need a place for the horn dogs and hussies to hang out.
A place for the men that dont know how to make a relationship work and for the women that know how to wreck them.
A place where all guys have 10's and girls have double D's.

He didn't say a porn site, Ride.....:lolhit:

I agree Dio. we need a place for the horn dogs and hussies to hang out.
A place for the men that dont know how to make a relationship work and for the women that know how to wreck them.
A place where all guys have 10's and girls have double D's.
However you choose to describe the potential frequent posters on such a forum section is up to you. But I assure you they will be a very large number and the section a vibrant one. It'll be good for the forum.

I've proposed to have a Relationship section on allforums before. And I think it should be brought back to attention. It's a very popular category on all kinds of online forums.
There's nothing a relationship section could have that Chat Central doesn't. Such a thing would make Chat Central even less frequented than it is now and fragment the cohesiveness of our little group.

Then again, it might encourage some new people to come on board...

Or maybe, God forbid, you're not all that good a lover, PM?

I hear alot of ME ME ME in your post, but not much about HER HER HER.

Women are fickle creatures when it comes to sex. We want the same thing men want... satisfaction. A woman who doesn't get that soon tires of going thru the motions. But will she ASK FOR WHAT SHE WANTS? Not usually.

After a typical 'OK, go ahead' session one time, I said to my partner, "One of these days I'm gonna find me a man who believes a woman should be satisfied EVERYTIME they make love."

Know what he said?

"Good luck with that."

Oh, and BTW, he ain't around any more... and finding one who knew how to please a woman wasn't actually as tough as he thought it would be.

Maybe it's time for the old dog to learn some new tricks, eh?

;)
SMW



oh believe me dear, because i want to stay with her i've tried to get her to try something new. she's finally after all these years stopped feeling bad about what makes her feel good.

and my theory is a theory on my part. since i haven't found anyone else i would want to try on for a night. but there have been plenty of ladies who have propositioned me who i DON'T want to try on.

oh believe me dear, because i want to stay with her i've tried to get her to try something new. she's finally after all these years stopped feeling bad about what makes her feel good.

and my theory is a theory on my part. since i haven't found anyone else i would want to try on for a night. but there have been plenty of ladies who have propositioned me who i DON'T want to try on.
Well, sweetie... it's good you try to get her to try something new. I think the trick might be for you to try to get her to ask YOU to try something new... for HER.

Men are wonderful creatures, but when it comes to guessing what might turn their mates on... they're really clueless.

Fortunately, it's not a terminal condition and can be remedied with a little open communication.

;)
SMW

oh we communicate on all levels SMW. and i'm up for just about anything except sex with another man,animals, or kids.

and if she wanted a DP, i'm game.

Always be honest even when it is the hardest thing to do in your life.
Trust that the person you are with will love you enough to understand and trust your decisions and respect you are able to make the right choices for your relationship and yourself....Never change your self for anyone. If they liked you before you got together then they will not want to change you afterwards either.
Love like there is not going to be a tomorrow.
Make love like they are the only person you see and they are the one you desire.

I know this sounds foolish and young but when you don't know if you will loose it or have it taken away from you live and love to the fullest.
You can't control tomorrow.

Always be honest even when it is the hardest thing to do in your life.
This is the only one I really take issue with... Sometimes there are things that would hurt your significant other. Sometimes you should just live with your own guilt instead of assuaging it at their expense.

For example, I still have feelings for one of my ex boyfriends. I haven't seen him in more than three years, he lives on the other side of the country, and nothing is going to happen between us. Do you think I should tell my current boyfriend about that? All it would do is hurt him. Although if he asked me whether I have feelings for any exes, I'd tell the truth, but since he hasn't asked I'm not just going to come out with it and ruin his day.

This is the only one I really take issue with... Sometimes there are things that would hurt your significant other. Sometimes you should just live with your own guilt instead of assuaging it at their expense.

For example, I still have feelings for one of my ex boyfriends. I haven't seen him in more than three years, he lives on the other side of the country, and nothing is going to happen between us. Do you think I should tell my current boyfriend about that? All it would do is hurt him. Although if he asked me whether I have feelings for any exes, I'd tell the truth, but since he hasn't asked I'm not just going to come out with it and ruin his day.


I have to agree 100 % here with Shorty. Being honest with our SO or bf/gf whatever is most important. Sure, the truth hurts, but not near as bad as deception.
I told my bf that there are many people in this world I love and have loved and have strong feelings for, even still. I don't know how you can do it, but I can't seem to find a way to turn off these feelings for them.
If they ever come back into my life, I don't know what I would do or how I would act. But it's best if I tell him up front in case one of them flies into town and we have a surprise meeting.
My bf is secure in us, we have an odd relationship and I won't go into details, but he is happier knowing this then if I didn't tell him.

I have to agree 100 % here with Shorty. Being honest with our SO or bf/gf whatever is most important. Sure, the truth hurts, but not near as bad as deception.
I told my bf that there are many people in this world I love and have loved and have strong feelings for, even still. I don't know how you can do it, but I can't seem to find a way to turn off these feelings for them.
If they ever come back into my life, I don't know what I would do or how I would act. But it's best if I tell him up front in case one of them flies into town and we have a surprise meeting.
My bf is secure in us, we have an odd relationship and I won't go into details, but he is happier knowing this then if I didn't tell him.
Well, my relationship is only a few months old... I really don't think it's secure enough at the moment for me to come right out and tell him that I have residual feelings for other people. I have already told him, before he and I got together. I just don't know if he remembers. Do you think I should tell him again??

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I think that anyone with common sense knows that their SO has feelings for others unless they've never had a serious relationship before...

Maybe, but only between blowjobs.

Maybe, but only between blowjobs.
Hush, Nappy. :p

Always be honest even when it is the hardest thing to do in your life.
Trust that the person you are with will love you enough to understand and trust your decisions and respect you are able to make the right choices for your relationship and yourself....Never change your self for anyone. If they liked you before you got together then they will not want to change you afterwards either.
Love like there is not going to be a tomorrow.
Make love like they are the only person you see and they are the one you desire.

I know this sounds foolish and young but when you don't know if you will loose it or have it taken away from you live and love to the fullest.
You can't control tomorrow.

Well my problem with your advice would be with the "trust" part and that would involve the honesty part too.... :)

It is not your partner that you EVER trust about revelations or love... it is yourself. You only ever love another as deeply as you trust yourself to handle their rejection.

When someone says: "I will never trust another human being again" ,what they are really saying is that they will never trust themselves to judge who is worthy of their trust again. It's that simple and that complex. Everything, and I do mean everything is about US. If people would only understand that it would change their life.

I think shorty, your cancer has freed you in someway. When we finally realize there may indeed be no tomorrow, (and that is for all of us in truth although most don't know it nor will they embrace it till it is thrust upon them) there may be no tomorrow`` we really understand the term carpe diem (seize the day).... that is real life and absolute joy.

Well, my relationship is only a few months old... I really don't think it's secure enough at the moment for me to come right out and tell him that I have residual feelings for other people. I have already told him, before he and I got together. I just don't know if he remembers. Do you think I should tell him again??

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I think that anyone with common sense knows that their SO has feelings for others unless they've never had a serious relationship before...

You've just said you don't think your relationship is secure enough to tell him. To me that means one of you or both are afraid of something, whether it is loosing each other, falling out of love or jealousy that the other might leave them for someone else.
I don't think you should tell him if you think it would be detrimental to your relationship, I'm not going to say go ahead and be responsible for you breaking up with him. But I will say I have only been dating a few months now too and right from the gate we talked about other relationships we had been in and the effect they had on us.
Ever since my hubby opened the marriage and we split up, I swear I'll never tie my heart to another. It's the lack of trust thats been altered in me to the point I have no more and care less.
It's hard to explain. I love my bf dearly and love being with him. He's fun and out going and understanding and GREAT in bed! I want to be with him. But years ago I was head over heals in love with Andrea, and already told AJ if she walks thru the door, I'm not going to be held responsible for my actions. I am deeply in love with her, not a day goes by without me thinking about her, but honestly I don't know what I would do if she showed up. I can't predict the future. *although if scott bakula shows up he's as good as raped on the doorstep. haha

Well my problem with your advice would be with the "trust" part and that would involve the honesty part too.... :)

It is not your partner that you EVER trust about revelations or love... it is yourself. You only ever love another as deeply as you trust yourself to handle their rejection.

When someone says: "I will never trust another human being again" ,what they are really saying is that they will never trust themselves to judge who is worthy of their trust again. It's that simple and that complex. Everything, and I do mean everything is about US. If people would only understand that it would change their life.

I think shorty, your cancer has freed you in someway. When we finally realize there may indeed be no tomorrow, (and that is for all of us in truth although most don't know it nor will they embrace it till it is thrust upon them) there may be no tomorrow`` we really understand the term carpe diem (seize the day).... that is real life and absolute joy.


Right. Once burnt twice shy. Do not ever trust anyone with your most important thing you have, and that is your love and trust. If you get in over your head, you will surely drown.

You've just said you don't think your relationship is secure enough to tell him. To me that means one of you or both are afraid of something, whether it is loosing each other, falling out of love or jealousy that the other might leave them for someone else.
I don't think you should tell him if you think it would be detrimental to your relationship, I'm not going to say go ahead and be responsible for you breaking up with him. But I will say I have only been dating a few months now too and right from the gate we talked about other relationships we had been in and the effect they had on us.

WARNING: EXTREMELY LONG POST! :lolhit:

I think we ARE afraid of losing each other. And I think that's normal for two young people in a relationship that's just started to be serious. We don't know each other that well yet. If my ex, Shane, showed up at my doorstep and begged for me back... Well i don't know what I would do. When Mike and I started dating casually I was sure that I would go back to Shane in a heartbeat, and I told him that. He accepted it at the time but I just don't know if he thinks the situation is the same or if he forgot or what... If he does remember I don't want to rub it in his face. And also, at this point I don't know if I would leave Mike for Shane. I was so sure before, but now I don't think I would.

The point is, I know that Shane isn't going to show up anytime soon (he's all the way on the other side of the country taking care of his disabled father and barely has the money for food, much less a frivolous trip to Maryland). And I know that if he did show up I wouldn't do anything with him or make him any promises before I talked to Mike about it. So my point is that I don't think I need to remind him constantly of the fact that my heart doesn't belong 100% to him.

Oh and another thing... It's different for you because you and your boyfriend are older and probably more mature. And I'd say you've probably had more serious relationships that have had more effects on you. Mike is 22, and he's only been in one serious relationship before, that lasted 4 years. He considers it serious because of the time factor, but the feelings he had for this girl weren't extremely strong. We've talked all about that. I'm 17, and I've been in 4 relationships previously that I would consider serious, although none of them have lasted more than a year. I call them serious because of the feelings involved instead of the actual time in relationship.

When Mike and I got together I was in the middle of ending my most serious and longest (continuous) relationship ever. So obviously he knows all about that, since I was trying to decide who to choose for a few weeks. And at that time I told him about Shane, not to detailed but I told him that I would leave him and my boyfriend at the time behind in a heartbeat for Shane. I suppose he might think that's still true, although it's not. I wonder if we should talk about it, but I think he's very sensitive and probably wouldn't take it well... Especially the way he's been lately. Both of us have some mental problems (I am often depressed and suspect that I either have bipolar, which runs in my family, or an anxiety disorder, and he is borderline schizotypal, formally diagnosed). So we each can go through long phases of very weird behavior and we're still learning how to deal with each other during these times.

Holy Crap, DF...that was a long post!:D

P.S. Is Shane a mod here?

Holy Crap, DF...that was a long post!:D

P.S. Is Shane a mod here?
No... The boyfriend I had when I met my current one is though...

Holy Crap, DF...that was a long post!:D

P.S. Is Shane a mod here?
My name isn't Shane, it's Casey. ;)

Young or not, Dark, I think people really look for securities and guarantees in their relationship that they shouldn't. They want the other to promise to never leave them, never betray them, love forever, etc. I don't think ANYONE can ever make those promises to another, and do so it an out right lie, not only to their love but to themself.

Sure, you don't know each well enough yet. But what happens when you start to get to know each other and your little quirks drive him mad or visa versa? Will you both be completely honest and tell the other or hold your tongue til you go mad inside? There is a fear of loosing the others love that makes them hold their tongue and tolerate their indifferences. I guess it's all into how much you are willing to put up with.

No need to rub it in his face, but the longer time goes on, the chances are your feelings will change for each other and there may be no need to even ever mention it.
life is funny. What if Shane won the lotto and showed up? then what? Will that change your feeling for him?

No doubt I've been in many more relationships then you and have more experience with it and many more chances of changes in my life. With each one I get good and bad out of it, and change accordingly. I am no longer a bitter and hateful person, I am no longer a battered woman, I am no longer insecure in myself, there is just much I won't tolerate anymore. Life's too short for the bullshit.

Your confusion in your relationship is quite apparent. First and foremost it's important to have open communication with each other. If you feel your don't quite love him with all your heart, why not tell him, gently. What's wrong with being with someone and not loving them with all your heart? That's a hell of lot to ask in the first place, imo.Especially from someone you don't truly know that well and are just beginning to discover.
Your depression is extra baggage from your childhood you carry with you still. I know. I lugged my around for years. I realized it was slowing me down and getting in me way of fun and happiness. The shoe has been on the other foot and it was very hard for me to love someone when every time I was around them, it was like a black cloud fell upon us and sapped out the positive energy. Depression is contagious. My neighbor suffers from it and I outright told her I can only take her in doses. There is no way I will let myself get sucked in to her sadness. I try to be cheerful and it works sometimes, but the times it don't, well, she has to go home.
It's twice as difficult if he has mental issues too. I'm not saying it won't work, by any means. I'm just saying the open honest truth would do you both a world of good.
I wish you luck and happiness.

Young or not, Dark, I think people really look for securities and guarantees in their relationship that they shouldn't. They want the other to promise to never leave them, never betray them, love forever, etc. I don't think ANYONE can ever make those promises to another, and do so it an out right lie, not only to their love but to themself.

Sure, you don't know each well enough yet. But what happens when you start to get to know each other and your little quirks drive him mad or visa versa? Will you both be completely honest and tell the other or hold your tongue til you go mad inside? There is a fear of loosing the others love that makes them hold their tongue and tolerate their indifferences. I guess it's all into how much you are willing to put up with.

No need to rub it in his face, but the longer time goes on, the chances are your feelings will change for each other and there may be no need to even ever mention it.
life is funny. What if Shane won the lotto and showed up? then what? Will that change your feeling for him?

About the "quirks" driving people mad... I think I've come to expect too much from love. I used to think that I would find that "perfect person" and nothing about either of us would annoy the other one or make the other one unhappy. Quite unrealistic, really. Now I know that when you truly love someone you can put up with a lot of flaws. No one is perfect.

Didn't I already say that my boyfriend knew going into this relationship that I still have feelings for other people? I told him right off the bat, before we made anything official. I just wondered to myself whether I should tell him again now that we're getting pretty serious. But I decided, with the advice of a couple of very good friends, that he doesn't need it rubbed in his face. Especially not right now when he's going through a stressful time in his life (and so am I, for that matter...).

If Shane won the lottery and showed up on my doorstep right now... Well, I've been thinking about it quite a bit lately. A few months ago, the answer to that question was easy. I would've left everyone and everything behind to go be with him. But a few days ago I realized that I'm not sure about that anymore. And now I think that I would refuse. I do love Shane, but I've come to realize that he and I are so much better as friends. When we were together we drove each other crazy. We were together twice, 3 months the first time and about the same the second time. But we've been friends now for three years and our friendship is amazing. Even though it's only online and I haven't seen him in all that time, he is without a doubt my best friend. So I think that issue is settled in my mind now. :)

Your confusion in your relationship is quite apparent. First and foremost it's important to have open communication with each other. If you feel your don't quite love him with all your heart, why not tell him, gently. What's wrong with being with someone and not loving them with all your heart? That's a hell of lot to ask in the first place, imo.
That's something I have come to realize relationships are. To be specific, they're not dependencies, nor is love. What I want out of a partner (and my closest friends) is to be told that I am one of the most important people in the world to them. Maybe not the most, but at least one of a select few.

I don't know if anyone can say that to me right now, but it's one of my life's goals to have that kind of relationship. That's what's important, to me, anyway.

What I want out of a partner (and my closest friends) is to be told that I am one of the most important people in the world to them. Maybe not the most, but at least one of a select few.

That's a good thing to want, and one I think most people DO want. :)

That's something I have come to realize relationships are. To be specific, they're not dependencies, nor is love. What I want out of a partner (and my closest friends) is to be told that I am one of the most important people in the world to them. Maybe not the most, but at least one of a select few.

I don't know if anyone can say that to me right now, but it's one of my life's goals to have that kind of relationship. That's what's important, to me, anyway.

That is an important thing to have and to want, I think it makes for a strong relationship as a friend and a lover. Too many times I think somene wants to be the 'crutch' and feels the urge to hold the other up, and the other to weak to stand on their own. It might work, but makes for a handicapped couple.

One thing I have learned in my friendships *and honestly they are mostly my past lovers but not all* is how important they are in my life and I theirs. Sex aside, I'd do anything to help one of them out if I ever can,and they I, 24/7, no matter where they are or what they are doing.
I have a close knit circle of friends that we have faced much together and an unbreakable bond.
You will find that Borg, you are well on your way.

Right. Once burnt twice shy. Do not ever trust anyone with your most important thing you have, and that is your love and trust. If you get in over your head, you will surely drown.

Hm, no, for me I have to say this would not hold true Imp. Over the years I have come to fully trust my current partner. But what that truly means is that I trust myself to survive no matter what happens between us. I can not predict my future behaviour nor his. Life is fickle. It has a way of sneaking up and doing things to us that can not be predicted.

That is also why relationships need to move slowly forward in a balanced way. It is why personal growth and experience are the only things that build a solid foundation. For a solid foundation there must be honesty as you have said. If there is not complete honesty there can never be solid trust and thus a foundation that will endure the bad times. And gawd knows we both know those times eventually come along. Then as partners we either support or destroy.

That's something I have come to realize relationships are. To be specific, they're not dependencies, nor is love. What I want out of a partner (and my closest friends) is to be told that I am one of the most important people in the world to them. Maybe not the most, but at least one of a select few.

I don't know if anyone can say that to me right now, but it's one of my life's goals to have that kind of relationship. That's what's important, to me, anyway.

Dead on! No one can ever be everything to another nor should we ever try. It limits the other person as well as ourselves. We must be equally yoked in our love lives as well as our friendships. If we are not when times are good, it makes it almost impossible when we hit the bad times.

I have been fortunate and blessed in my life with the people that are in my circles. They are people of great wisdom and integrity. The other thing is Borg not all relationships will be of equal trust but each may be of great value right down to your aquaintances.

I think of my friendships like an onion skin. My partner is my closest and there is a girlfriend of mine that I've had for 45 years. We grew up together. Then there is another layer. People who I have known for years and we are honest with each other and supportive. Then there is another layer of people that I interact with socially. They know some things but not a lot but I would help them or they me if need be.

Even at work there are layers. I limit what they know but we have a closeness, honesty and support. Then there's another layer at work which is just fun and superficial etc.

And outward from there.

Build your layers. You have deep integrity and there is a calmness of spirit that speaks of many layers and a soft place to fall for those whom you love.

That is an important thing to have and to want, I think it makes for a strong relationship as a friend and a lover. Too many times I think somene wants to be the 'crutch' and feels the urge to hold the other up, and the other to weak to stand on their own. It might work, but makes for a handicapped couple.

Yeah there was one relationship where I decided I could be a crutch. I was gonna heeeeeeeeeeal him. He would know after a while that he was loved and totally accepted and then everything would fall into place.

What a disaster that was. I knew we were not equally matched mentally or emotionally from day one. He likely had 30 IQ points on me I likely had 30 EQ points on him.

He was my passion. A rollercoaster ride of emotion. It was exciting. I was elated one week and devastated the next week. Of course everything revolved around his personal crisis of the moment.

What I didn't understand at the time was that becomes addictive. That emotionally topsy turvy crap is hard to let go of. Makes Mr. Stable seem boring as hell. Luckily, Mr. Stable is usually really patient and tolerant and sometimes we wake up in time. :rolleyes: :D

I’ve found that trust is key in a relationship. Without trust, the relationship is doomed.

I think of my friendships like an onion skin.
They stink? They make you cry? You leave them out in the sun, they get all brown, start sprouting little white hairs?

Hm, no, for me I have to say this would not hold true Imp. Over the years I have come to fully trust my current partner. But what that truly means is that I trust myself to survive no matter what happens between us. I can not predict my future behaviour nor his. Life is fickle. It has a way of sneaking up and doing things to us that can not be predicted.

That is also why relationships need to move slowly forward in a balanced way. It is why personal growth and experience are the only things that build a solid foundation. For a solid foundation there must be honesty as you have said. If there is not complete honesty there can never be solid trust and thus a foundation that will endure the bad times. And gawd knows we both know those times eventually come along. Then as partners we either support or destroy.

There is a difference between being able to trust your current partner and being able to survive no matter what happens between you both.
If you give your trust to him and he breaks it, it's much different then being able to stand on your own afterward.
I AM able to stand now.
It was very hard because when I give myself, I give my all. I was betrayed and leveled when truth hit.
He used my trust against me.With that he destroyed a part of me. Shame on me for letting him and shame on him for doing it.

You are right, Life is fickle and you never know what it will bring from one day to the next. I think Life is just a test to see what you can handle and molds you as you need to be.

I am glad for you. I did commit my heart to him forever and he used it against me for his own selfishness. It's hard to trust but maybe in time, I don't know.

trust is very important in a relationship, Ferg, I agree. But it is what is done with that trust that matters. I don't believe it is to be given freely anymore.


And Borg. A big part of a deep friendship is the willingness of commitment. The more you are willing to commit to them, the longer the and deeper the friendship will be.

* Sorry, I've been drinking a bit tonight, hope it makes sense.

They stink? They make you cry? You leave them out in the sun, they get all brown, start sprouting little white hairs?

hahahaha, you are beautiful. Nice analogy!

Yeah there was one relationship where I decided I could be a crutch. I was gonna heeeeeeeeeeal him. He would know after a while that he was loved and totally accepted and then everything would fall into place.

What a disaster that was. I knew we were not equally matched mentally or emotionally from day one. He likely had 30 IQ points on me I likely had 30 EQ points on him.

He was my passion. A rollercoaster ride of emotion. It was exciting. I was elated one week and devastated the next week. Of course everything revolved around his personal crisis of the moment.

What I didn't understand at the time was that becomes addictive. That emotionally topsy turvy crap is hard to let go of. Makes Mr. Stable seem boring as hell. Luckily, Mr. Stable is usually really patient and tolerant and sometimes we wake up in time. :rolleyes: :D
yeah, beeen there did that.

It can be exciting at first, then its extremely boring knowing that other person is CREATING drama for attention. Speaks volumes of their insecurities.
The last person that pulled that shit in my life I literally threw out the door and told them to fuck off.
I want life as it comes, not dramatized for their attention.

I kind of wanted to be Sal's friend, but if I have to smell and decompose.... ermmm.... hmmmm....

OK......., I guess I can handle that.

:D

They stink? They make you cry? You leave them out in the sun, they get all brown, start sprouting little white hairs?

Haaaaaaaa, ya got me.... touche.... Yeah, layered like an onion.... I'd spank ya, but ya might like it....

There is a difference between being able to trust your current partner and being able to survive no matter what happens between you both.
If you give your trust to him and he breaks it, it's much different then being able to stand on your own afterward.
Yes you are right of course I really was not clear on what I meant there.
I should have explained more in depth that as we grow we learn that trust is earned/given in stages. That is why relationships need to progress slowly. As we learn about the other person and they slowly reveal who they really are, we give more trust or learn caution.

At the beginning, we should only give out what we know we can stand to lose. It's like loaning money to a friend. Only give out what you can afford to never get back. Expectation can only come with time.



I AM able to stand now.
It was very hard because when I give myself, I give my all. I was betrayed and leveled when truth hit.
He used my trust against me.With that he destroyed a part of me. Shame on me for letting him and shame on him for doing it. If we are lucky we learn how it works eh. :)


You are right, Life is fickle and you never know what it will bring from one day to the next. I think Life is just a test to see what you can handle and molds you as you need to be. Yeah well we are both there with that, which is why we "get" each other. Not to mention we are both tough bitches. :D
I am glad for you. I did commit my heart to him forever and he used it against me for his own selfishness. It's hard to trust but maybe in time, I don't know. This is the part where I was trying to say, people can trust again, once they have learned that they can trust themselves to keep themselves "safe" and not give away that which would destroy them. It's a hard concept to explain but when you give your personal experience as you have here I think it makes it more clear as to what I was trying to express.

I don't believe it is to be given freely anymore. It's like love, it shouldn't be unconditional. It is earned.

* Sorry, I've been drinking a bit tonight, hope it makes sense. Um, more sense than what I wrote while sober baby. :thumbs:

yeah, beeen there did that.

It can be exciting at first, then its extremely boring knowing that other person is CREATING drama for attention. Speaks volumes of their insecurities.
The last person that pulled that shit in my life I literally threw out the door and told them to fuck off.
I want life as it comes, not dramatized for their attention.

Yeah well in my case the scary thing was he wasn't............daaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn

Okay what I was going to say was, the scary part was that he wasn't doing it for dramatic effect, he was truly that messed. AND then a little bell went off in my head that said.... slow down babe she has said something here that you should consider....

To quote Fergie... wow.

*walks off to consider that*

I kind of wanted to be Sal's friend, but if I have to smell and decompose.... ermmm.... hmmmm....

OK......., I guess I can handle that.

:D

sniffs the room.... sniffs some more... yeah, my buddy "Pharty" is around... :D

I should have explained more in depth that as we grow we learn that trust is earned/given in stages. That is why relationships need to progress slowly. As we learn about the other person and they slowly reveal who they really are, we give more trust or learn caution.

At the beginning, we should only give out what we know we can stand to lose. It's like loaning money to a friend. Only give out what you can afford to never get back. Expectation can only come with time.



If we are lucky we learn how it works eh. :)


Yeah well we are both there with that, which is why we "get" each other. Not to mention we are both tough bitches. :D
This is the part where I was trying to say, people can trust again, once they have learned that they can trust themselves to keep themselves "safe" and not give away that which would destroy them. It's a hard concept to explain but when you give your personal experience as you have here I think it makes it more clear as to what I was trying to express.

It's like love, it shouldn't be unconditional. It is earned.

Um, more sense than what I wrote while sober baby. :thumbs:

Now, right there, is a Pearl of Wisdom!

Yeah well in my case the scary thing was he wasn't............daaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn

Okay what I was going to say was, the scary part was that he wasn't doing it for dramatic effect, he was truly that messed. AND then a little bell went off in my head that said.... slow down babe she has said something here that you should consider....

To quote Fergie... wow.

*walks off to consider that*

Amazing what you can see when a new light is shined on it, eh?

You ok? :flowers:

Amazing what you can see when a new light is shined on it, eh?

You ok? :flowers:

Yeah thanks it really shocked me. I just never ever thought of Mr. Professor as a drama queen until I read your post. Then about 5 different situations flashed through my head.

Now that I've had time to reflect upon it... he sure as shit was. Right down to being seduced by his therapist. No wonder we fought for two solid days about him reporting her and making it public.

Thanks Imp. Never too old to see things in a new light. :thumbs:

http://imagechan.com/img/images/rake%20poem.jpg

http://imagechan.com/img/images/rake%20poem.jpg
:( it doesn't rhyme...it's supposed to rhyme... like ...ROSES ARE RED, VIOLETS ARE BLUE, I'LL FUCK YOU WITH A RAKE... TOO....

see, like that.... suppose to.

:( it doesn't rhyme...it's supposed to rhyme... like ...ROSES ARE RED, VIOLETS ARE BLUE, I'LL FUCK YOU WITH A RAKE... TOO....

see, like that.... suppose to.
"I'll fuck you with a rake, you Jew"?

...aw, c'mon Ren!! Cough it up!

"I'll fuck you with a rake, you Jew"?

yeah, that rhymes...

Secrets of long-lasting Love

People wonder how Bubba and I have stayed married so long. They wonder what our secret is for a happy, fulfilling, long-term lovefest.

It's simple. Make sure you---

A. Have lots in common

B. Bankrupt yourself to provide forgettable, expensive, boring wedding ceremony

C. Have plenty of grub at the reception for recently paroled guests, including pricey wedding cake.

Here's some of our old wedding pics. Brings a tear to my eye just looking at them even now...




http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2161/untitledzb2.png

got a real bargain on those shoes--half off at Payless!!





http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3647/cakedb9.png

Cake courtesy of Little Debbie--yum!

HA! HA! wait....I know those people! It's the Duggars from up here. That's baby number 18 she's carrying. Jim Bob gets a gleam in his eyes about twenty minutes after she births one.