What do you think of them? Their tactics, Their aims?

"The fundamental base of our organisation is the dire situation our people have been enduring, people who have struggled peacefully with the government, trying to gain the same things as other peoples who have struggled: land titles, housing and other basic needs. But instead of solving these problems, the government responded with repression. Our leaders have been beaten, assassinated, exiled, jailed. And so we decided that there was no other option but to organise and rise up this way in armed struggle". (Comandante Javier, Tojolobal indian, of the Zapatista)

"Much death comes to us, but the worst death was that of the silence, that of the forgetting. When we declared war on the government, we had no other solution. We had to choose between the death from the forgetting or make ourselves heard. That is why the war was made. Not to dominate, but to stop the other war which the government made against us, and makes against us. Our war was to live and the government's war was to kill." (Comandante Leticia, of the Zapatista) [source (http://www.chiapaslink.ukgateway.net/ch1.html) ]

I don't know the whole situation, and being a pacifist I'm not one to quickly agree that violence is the only answer... however, according to the Zapatista, they have few remaining options.

I'll need to do more reading.

Emiliano Zapata was one weird guy. But the revolution would not of happened without him.

I will take the zapatistas out when they try anything. Unorganized grab-astic pieces of amphibian shit wont last 5 minutes when it all goes down.

Originally posted by Travh20
I will take the zapatistas out when they try anything. Unorganized grab-astic pieces of amphibian shit wont last 5 minutes when it all goes down. You would 'take out' people who are fighting for democratic political representation, health care, self-determination, and basic human rights... things which you yourself would fight to protect?

From what I I have read, the present zapatista movement is rather non violent. It is not a guerilla movement like many in south america but rather a real political movement that has creatives ways of getting the world attention and which political project makes sense.

I believe it's rather like what happened durin' the '60s, when Martin Luther King warned the government that if his peaceful methods continued to be frustrated and blocked there were others (remember Malcom X?) who would rise in a more forceful fashion...
I do not view Dr. King's methods as bein' necessarily superior ta Malcolm X's... rather just both of 'em bein' two sides of the SAME coin... It is so very regretable that both men were assassinated fer tryin' ta even the playin' field in our society...

Many of the inequities experienced in Mexico today can indeed be traced back to American big biz roots... It's a mess... and our country really should try ta help them clean it up... before they, too, rise up with violence against so many injustices...

ya, its Americas fault Mexico is a jacked up country. Grow up already.

I'm goin ta Mexeecow to get mee some weed and drink and bring back suum good wurkors ta sale.

America can kiss my arse I'm getting some free labor from those lazy suns ah bi**hes. Illegal my a** The man shows up on my door I'll just shoot the lazy slave and go get me another one. Instead of moving my company I'm going to move the labor, that way I can still put American made on the label. Plus I'll be creating another line of work, "slave trading". There see I'm willing to help the sh**heads give them a job and make them fear the American. Got to keep them in line otherwise they'll rise up and take this country over.

Astra before you get real p**ed at me I am only joking.......

Originally posted by Travh20
ya, its Americas fault Mexico is a jacked up country. Grow up already.
Get your head out of your ass and do some reading, moron?

God, if it weren't for the fact you're an idiot 99% of the time instead of 50%, I'd assume you arbitrarily flip a coin to decide what your stance on an issue is.

OK genius, show me how America made mexico a crappy country, please. And please, no leftist propaganda regurgitation please.

Well, bein' as how ya axed...

the "leftist propaganda", that is... Let's take a look at a modern U. S. map and notice how many SPANISH names are scattered over so much of the Western states... San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Jose (called "Jose-SAN" by some Japanese tourists) and on and on and on and on...

It kinda supports the notion that we ripped off HALF of Mexico in the not-THAT-distant past... (I'm alwayz amazed at how many rightwingers I've heard say they just don't "understand" why the Mexican-Americans don't wanna learn English... Well, fer one thing, they DO... and fer another thing, they were HERE before us... Spanish comes kinda "natural" fer 'em...)

Additionally, if ya research it justalittle bit, ya might be AMAZED at how many Mexican big businesses are actually owned by... how do I say it in Gringo Lingo?... United States owners...

WE get scared when only a tiny percentage of property and businesses are bought up by foreign interests...

Anywayz, that's my take on it... Thanks fer chattin'...

OK, first of all, we defeated mexico in armed conflict, thus gaining the land. In other words we won it fair and square. If they want it back why dont they mobilize their army and roll their tanks across the borders? Secondly, Us taking over part of mexico 100 years ago does nor explain anything about why the rest of Mexico is a shit hole to this day. Are you saying that we took the best part from them, and since we have this area that now nothing can be done to make the rest of mexico productive? They are just so crushed, so sad about losing part of their land that they just threw their hands up and said "aw screw it?" ?Thats just another cop out excuse used to justify a country being a total lazy shit hole run by crooks by blaming the big guy. Give it up. There is no grand conspiracy to keep the third world down, there is no corperate secret agenda. face it, some countrys just dont have the drive to get out of a funk.

Look up "Manifest Destiny" Trav.

Secondly, I don't see where you got anyone saying that it's entirely the United States' fault that Mexico is in the state it currently is in.

This discussion was revolving around the Zapatista movement... a movement aiming at achieving basic human rights for the people of Tzotzil, Tzeltal, Tojolobal, Chol and other groups of the Chiapa region. These people are trying to deal with some of the worst poverty in Mexico -- almost 70% of the people who live there suffer from malnutrition, resulting in tens of thousands of deaths a YEAR, infant mortality is DOUBLE the average for the rest of Mexico, they have had their land taken from them, they have no work, or education for that matter...

They're fighting for basic survival, Trav... and you're calling them pieces of amphibian shit?

I'll tell you who's a piece of shit... the guy reading this who has his head so far up his ass he's eating his own. Get yourself checked out, Trav... Cranial-Rectal Inversion is curable from what I've heard.

Ouch now thats gotta hurt

Travh I know where you can get a good Mexican doc. cheap :D

That's 'cuz those docs don't make much pay, so... (or wuz that... peso?) ;)

Originally posted by Age
Look up "Manifest Destiny" Trav.

Secondly, I don't see where you got anyone saying that it's entirely the United States' fault that Mexico is in the state it currently is in.

This discussion was revolving around the Zapatista movement... a movement aiming at achieving basic human rights for the people of Tzotzil, Tzeltal, Tojolobal, Chol and other groups of the Chiapa region. These people are trying to deal with some of the worst poverty in Mexico -- almost 70% of the people who live there suffer from malnutrition, resulting in tens of thousands of deaths a YEAR, infant mortality is DOUBLE the average for the rest of Mexico, they have had their land taken from them, they have no work, or education for that matter...

They're fighting for basic survival, Trav... and you're calling them pieces of amphibian shit?

I'll tell you who's a piece of shit... the guy reading this who has his head so far up his ass he's eating his own. Get yourself checked out, Trav... Cranial-Rectal Inversion is curable from what I've heard.

OK, how does manifest destiny change the fact that we kicked Mexicos ass? If they had theri shit together they could have held us off. They had all the land and natural resources we had. They just didnt have the tools or the talent. And the whole point is, how does that affect in any way the condition in these places you name? It doesnt, its a cop out cheap excuse to fail.

as far as cranial rectal inversion goes, I will leave that to you, you sound like you have had the most experience with that.

No actually Trav, they did not have all the land and the natural resources the US had.

On top of that, your logic is faulty. Just because the bully on the playground is bigger then the scrawny kid, does that make it ok for the bully to steal his lunch money? No.

ya, who made you miltary expert? or do you just think you know everything about everything?

Who deprived you of logic?

ouch!

I like how Age thinks anyone who doesnt agree with her is illogical, she must have spent to much time in college.

I consider anyone who cannot argue a point and instead resorts to "That's not true because I said so!" to be illogical.

Provide proof to back up your arguments, Trav, and I won't call you illogical.

Simple as that.