Understanding: a way of seeing

Know is see. Understand is grasp. These are rather common metaphors. Such metaphors help us comprehend.

Empathy is a technique for understanding. We can try to understand another person by creating a means whereby we can ‘walk a mile in her shoes’. We can create analogies of what the other person experiences as a means for us to ‘put on their shoes’.

An artist may paint in the manner of Picasso, or perhaps in the manner of a Rembrandt, or perhaps in the manner of a Monet. These different forms of painting represent different ways of seeing. They represent a personal understanding which provides us with a prism for seeing.

Mathematics is a way of seeing. Mathematics is the science of pattern. Imagine a very elaborate Persian rug. Imagine that you have only a small fragment of that rug. Mathematics offers a means whereby you might be able to construct the rest of that rug to look exactly like the original. Math can perhaps create a formula for the pattern in the rug such that you can, by following that math formula, exactly duplicate the pattern from which that rug was created.

Understanding is a stage of comprehension whereby a person can interject them self into the pattern through imagination. ‘Understanding is math’ because it helps the individual to ‘walk in the shoes’ of some other entity.

Understanding might correctly, in my opinion, be considered to be a personal paradigm. Knowledge is about truth but understanding is about meaning. Understanding is a means for placing the individual within the picture including the entity about which the individual wishes to become very familiar.

Understanding is a creative process that extends knowing. Understanding may or may not enhance the truth quality of comprehension. Picasso and Monet may paint the same object but have they captured the truth of that object.?

Is truth anything beyond what is normally considered to be truth?

Is truth anything beyond what humans have normalized (standardized)?

Does understanding aid or deter normalization?

Are you normal? Would you rather be normal than right?

Dare to be abnormal, but not foolish!

Understanding: a way of seeing

Know is see. Understand is grasp. These are rather common metaphors. Such metaphors help us comprehend.

Empathy is a technique for understanding. We can try to understand another person by creating a means whereby we can ‘walk a mile in her shoes’. We can create analogies of what the other person experiences as a means for us to ‘put on their shoes’.

An artist may paint in the manner of Picasso, or perhaps in the manner of a Rembrandt, or perhaps in the manner of a Monet. These different forms of painting represent different ways of seeing. They represent a personal understanding which provides us with a prism for seeing.

Mathematics is a way of seeing. Mathematics is the science of pattern. Imagine a very elaborate Persian rug. Imagine that you have only a small fragment of that rug. Mathematics offers a means whereby you might be able to construct the rest of that rug to look exactly like the original. Math can perhaps create a formula for the pattern in the rug such that you can, by following that math formula, exactly duplicate the pattern from which that rug was created.

Understanding is a stage of comprehension whereby a person can interject them self into the pattern through imagination. ‘Understanding is math’ because it helps the individual to ‘walk in the shoes’ of some other entity.

Understanding might correctly, in my opinion, be considered to be a personal paradigm. Knowledge is about truth but understanding is about meaning. Understanding is a means for placing the individual within the picture including the entity about which the individual wishes to become very familiar.

Understanding is a creative process that extends knowing. Understanding may or may not enhance the truth quality of comprehension. Picasso and Monet may paint the same object but have they captured the truth of that object.?

Is truth anything beyond what is normally considered to be truth?

Is truth anything beyond what humans have normalized (standardized)?

Does understanding aid or deter normalization?

Are you normal? Would you rather be normal than right?

Dare to be abnormal, but not foolish!

Coberst you are a poet :) And a very deep thinker.

If one wishes to share something/wisdom with others on a messageboard, that is not "fluff", They start a topic/thread and post it for others to peruse and discuss. Now the more posts that a topic/thread gets the more interest is draws. Both as people who participate and people who view. And the more interest that a topic/thread, that contains one's gift to be shared, gets, the more folks that gift is shared with.

In a messageboard environment interest is created with a concept called a "Hot Topic". And folks tune in to see what they are missing :) On a very active messageboard such as "All Forums", little activity topics/threads are soon pushed down into history and are shown little interest.

"Fluff" and "controlled conflict" are the meat and potatoes of messageboard activity (they are always there in all "Hot Topics"). But at the sametime in the middle of this "fluff" and "controlled conflict" one finds gifts of widom. Sometimes it is ours and sometimes it is other's, but these gifts are also, always there.

My challenge as a person, who would like see your gifts of wisdom shared with others, is to help create activity in your topic/thread. Probably you would rather that I didn't help you :) but the "truth" is that once I get an "empathic feel" for what you are attempting, I can be pretty good at singing along.

So may I start here: Men by nature are not "empathic", women by nature are very "empathic" (yes that statement is an absolute, and yes there are exceptions to the rule). I am extremely "Empathic" (to the point that it can be painful) and I am somewhat "Telepathic" :) , and to make matters worse I am a man. Your wisdom Coberst seems to suggest that this is "Ok." EEK! :)

Tucker58

Empathy and Telepathy are and can be a religious topic. When one becomes in "Union with God" one shares God's experience in a Empathic and Telepathic way. If we are open minded about this sharing experience, God then teaches us His reality and we recieve our heritage as an adopted child of God.

Tucker58

On the subject of "empathy":

I had a nightmare one time, in this nightmare there was a giant, he was a very big primative somewhat slim fellow with a child like mind and with a large club. He spied me from a distance, became happy, and in his eyes I saw that he saw me as food. Nothing else just as food. All my little life of huffing and puffing around and thinking myself important, ceased to exist. All my intellectual jumpings around that dazzled and stroked my vain self importance ceased to exist. In the giants mind I was just food. Things were totally uncomplicated in his mind in an intellectual sense and he was just happy to spy me and was thinking in a child like way, "Yum Yum", food. He had no empathy for me as a thinking feeling humanbeing. I was food and he was hungy.

That dream changed me. :)

Tucker58

"Empthy" and possibly "Telepathy" are interesting subjects in a "Religion and Philosophy" forum. After all, anything that is not considered science or religion is generally shuffled in to "Philosophy". "All Forums.net" does have a "Science" forum. :)

So how many people are actually "Empathic"?; And do they use this "gift" to milk others? "Psychic Vampires", if you will. By the way guys, "Witchcraft" is, if one wants to consider this "Witchcraft" :) , a "religion".

So, me "Amours" :) "Do we live in a world where some folks are milking us of our "life energy"? Are they witches or just regular people? And this just for fun :) ,"Why is witchcraft considered a religion?"

Coberst, you really should supervise your tiopic/thread :) a "slow abandoned topic", is fair game for all of us :)

"Hugs" :)

Tucker58

Empathy: The ability to feel the feelings of other living things. Does anybody disagree with this? Telepathy is a version of empathy. It is just that you are picking up some level of other living things thoughts.

Based on my experience there is no such thing as distance or time. Based on my experience :) when I actually do pick up another person's thoughts/feelings, it does not seem to matter where they are on this planet. Next to me or otherwise :) By the way I was born this way, and I am not an oddity. Alot of others are also, it is just that they are real quiet about it for obvious reasons. :)

We as a social group relative to manking/humankind are about to enter into a sicience reality where Empathy and Telepathy are just something that we have to deal with. What you feel affects those that are around you. Your feelings are a part of the envionment of those around you. And they, your feelings, actually do impose an effect, that needs to be delt with by those around you. If they, those around you, desire to maintain some kind of emotional stability.

Oh well :) so lets discuss it, the good, the bad, and the ugly :) I can play by myself you know :) I don't mind.

Tucker58

On the subject of "empathy":

I had a nightmare one time, in this nightmare there was a giant, he was a very big primative somewhat slim fellow with a child like mind and with a large club. He spied me from a distance, became happy, and in his eyes I saw that he saw me as food. Nothing else just as food. All my little life of huffing and puffing around and thinking myself important, ceased to exist. All my intellectual jumpings around that dazzled and stroked my vain self importance ceased to exist. In the giants mind I was just food. Things were totally uncomplicated in his mind in an intellectual sense and he was just happy to spy me and was thinking in a child like way, "Yum Yum", food. He had no empathy for me as a thinking feeling humanbeing. I was food and he was hungy.

That dream changed me. :)

Tucker58
I think he might have just been a capitalist. Was he wearing a suit?

I think he might have just been a capitalist. Was he wearing a suit?

Hi Sal "hugs!"

:) Ah yes, The old "Black Horse of the Apocalypse", Capitalism :)

Well, I will say this Sal, you have added an interesting dimension to that dream :) one fraught with all kinds of interesting directions and ramifications! ( :) God but I love "smilies"! They only let me have 10. But as a "smilie" addict, this is probably a good idea :) )

He has a suit on now Sal and I still feel like food! :)

Tucker58

I find it hard to speak of empathy, without including the words- perceived comprehension.
I can read a book by an author and assume I understand his meaning, it could be entirely different than my assumption.

I may try to "wear the shoes" of a homeless person, yet never experience the loneliness, shiver in the cold, emotional fears, or the many other aspects that this person has experienced. Most of all I would never be able to experience it with the past memories of that person. Memories that may make the experience a pleasure or a living nightmare.

The thinking mind, being either our best friend or worst enemy, is at play when we experience anything. How else would one experience a situation with pleasure, while another experiences the same with discomfort.

Empathy: The ability to feel the feelings of other living things. Does anybody disagree with this? Telepathy is a version of empathy. It is just that you are picking up some level of other living things thoughts.

Based on my experience there is no such thing as distance or time. Based on my experience :) when I actually do pick up another person's thoughts/feelings, it does not seem to matter where they are on this planet. Next to me or otherwise :) By the way I was born this way, and I am not an oddity. Alot of others are also, it is just that they are real quiet about it for obvious reasons. :)

We as a social group relative to manking/humankind are about to enter into a sicience reality where Empathy and Telepathy are just something that we have to deal with. What you feel affects those that are around you. Your feelings are a part of the envionment of those around you. And they, your feelings, actually do impose an effect, that needs to be delt with by those around you. If they, those around you, desire to maintain some kind of emotional stability.

Oh well :) so lets discuss it, the good, the bad, and the ugly :) I can play by myself you know :) I don't mind.

Tucker58

Tucker, you touch on the very reason I try to avoid standing in line with others.
It is difficult for one to control, what I call, the "sponge effect," for a long period of time.
It is much easier to control the "emittance effect."

Glad to see you are aware of many of the things around you, that effect you. Most are not.

I enjoy your posts.

Seeing...

I guess people of speaking English think that seeing as treating documents and words, not treating fact and reality.
When documents show us that Sun moves around Earth and human dying off is will of God, maybe they will believe it and carry out them.

Does reason mean as not looking fact but looking document?

Seeing...

I guess people of speaking English think that seeing as treating documents and words, not treating fact and reality.
When documents show us that Sun moves around Earth and human dying off is will of God, maybe they will believe it and carry out them.

Does reason mean as not looking fact but looking document?

Koutaka, Hi and welcome to this topic!

I personally agree with what you posted. And English speaking people are generally full of "shit". But it should be understood that the word "shit" is concidered "uneducated" english. OK?

Guys, this needs to be said: We as (those of us that are) english speaking people as a first language, are setting an example and helping people who are dealing with English as a second language. For some reason English seems to be kicking around as a world language. We as english speaking people have a tendency to laugh at the mistakes that those that are attmpting english speaking make, with English as a second language. The truth is that there is no "Empthy" to that. I am not exploring a second language, but I do have compassion for those that do! My heart as an English speaking person as a first language, goes out to them.

I speak both educated English (American :) ) and uneducated english (American :) ). and sometimes I slip between the two.

Koutaka is also sudying cross cultural realities. :) He is cool and he is a gift!

Koutaka, you are right with what you posted, if I am interpreting your words right (even English speaking folks have a hard time figuring out what the other person is saying :) reative to English :) ).

Tucker58

Dan, I don't know what to say to what you have posted. You are, based on my experience with things, right!

Sal (anybody?), how do we give Dan a run for his money :) ? EEK!

Tucker50 something :(

Empathy: The ability to feel the feelings of other living things. Does anybody disagree with this? Telepathy is a version of empathy. It is just that you are picking up some level of other living things thoughts.



I find it hard to speak of empathy, without including the words- perceived comprehension.
I can read a book by an author and assume I understand his meaning, it could be entirely different than my assumption.

I may try to "wear the shoes" of a homeless person, yet never experience the loneliness, shiver in the cold, emotional fears, or the many other aspects that this person has experienced. Most of all I would never be able to experience it with the past memories of that person. Memories that may make the experience a pleasure or a living nightmare.

The thinking mind, being either our best friend or worst enemy, is at play when we experience anything. How else would one experience a situation with pleasure, while another experiences the same with discomfort.

Well tuck I would say Dan is right. The only person who can actually define empathy in a given situation is the individual with whom we have "tried" to empathize.

We can not know another's experience, we only perceive their reaction to us. They either feel comfortable, understood and safe or not. If they indicate that they do, we feel a 'connection', if they indicate that they do not we may have failed or perhaps not. Problem is there are so many dynamics occurring.

Then there can also be the intrusion factor. Some do not wish us to know how they "feel" in a given situation and that opens up a whole new door.

As for the sponge effect, that was something which was far more problematic for me when I was in my 20's. It created intense anxiety since I did not know what was happening and could not identify the source of 'feeling'.

Now I can usually close off fast. Although with certain individuals I can not and distance is not helpful. Now however it hits the left side of my head before my gut. Much easier to handle. :D

Well tuck I would say Dan is right. The only person who can actually define empathy in a given situation is the individual with whom we have "tried" to empathize.

We can not know another's experience, we only perceive their reaction to us. They either feel comfortable, understood and safe or not. If they indicate that they do, we feel a 'connection', if they indicate that they do not we may have failed or perhaps not. Problem is there are so many dynamics occurring.

Then there can also be the intrusion factor. Some do not wish us to know how they "feel" in a given situation and that opens up a whole new door.

As for the sponge effect, that was something which was far more problematic for me when I was in my 20's. It created intense anxiety since I did not know what was happening and could not identify the source of 'feeling'.

Now I can usually close off fast. Although with certain individuals I can not and distance is not helpful. Now however it hits the left side of my head before my gut. Much easier to handle. :D

The problem with being empathic is that you are walking along and somebody walks by you and you become a different person and wonder what happened? And/or you are walking along thinking your thoughts and all of a sudden you are thinking things that you wouldn't normally think.

Nobody wants the privacy of their thoughts and feelings to be known by others, which is understandable. At the sametime :) folks that are actually sensitive to others, learn to develope filters and barriers, or go nuts :)

Coberst started this topic suggesting to all of us that we should be "empathic" and walk a mile in the other person's shoes. I looked in to Sodom's H's eyes as an empath trying to understand and was unhinged. I don't do that anymore on the "telly" news. That boy cured me :) I listen, but I don't watch it anymore.

Coberst's suggestion that we should be empathic was ment to be a gift to all of us, The problem is that Cobesrt is not an empath. Otherwise his whole approach to things would have been different. :)

Empathy and telepathy are tricky subjects to attempt to discuss. But at the sametime I think that these subjects should be discussed. Not for the folks that are not empathic, but for the folks that are! :)

Thank you guys, I am sorry that I am weird :) maybe :) maybe not :)

Love you!

Tucker58 (Tuck :) )