To say the Republicans are soft on crime (http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/02/libby.sentence/index.html)would be a huge understatement. They fully support certain kinds of crimes, especially when committed by other Republicans.

When Bill Clinton lied under oath it was a terrible crime worthy of impeachment but when Scooter Libby does it, the crybabies on the right all began demanding this convicted criminal be pardoned...just because he is a Republican.

Well, now their fellow criminal has gotten his free pass and will be back out on the streets very soon.

This is a disgusting travesty of justice and a slap in the face to every law abiding American everywhere.


:rant:

I felt the same way when Carter granted amnesty to all the draft dodgers, and then again in 2003 when Gov. George Ryan announced that he had commuted the sentences of all of Illinois' death row inmates.

I did not as of three hours ago support impeachment. This man defies our laws with such contempt as if he wrote them himself, or just changes them so he can do his bidding. How can a man tell a CIA operatives name to the press. Lie that he didn't do it. Then get pardoned. I am sickened by this as many of fellow American's get harsher punishment for considerably lesser crimes. Being a white man and republican seems to give you a lot of rights to do whatever you want.






Sad :(

I felt the same way when Carter granted amnesty to all the draft dodgers, and then again in 2003 when Gov. George Ryan announced that he had commuted the sentences of all of Illinois' death row inmates.
1. That war and its reason for drafter dodgers is neither her nor there and that would invaribly happen AGAIN if we instituted the draft to fight this war.

2. State execution of people is morally wrong. He did not let them get out of jail but to life imprisonment. THIS MAN WON'T SERVE A DAY IN JAIL. And if you think he will have a problem finding a job then the wool is get darker on your eyes

1. That war and its reason for drafter dodgers is neither her nor there and that would invaribly happen AGAIN if we instituted the draft to fight this war.

2. State execution of people is morally wrong. He did not let them get out of jail but to life imprisonment. THIS MAN WON'T SERVE A DAY IN JAIL. And if you think he will have a problem finding a job then the wool is get darker on your eyes


Sound like typical excuses to me. Personally I think all three of them are/were wrong.
I don't think the President (any President) or any Governor should be second guessing the judicial system. Thats up to the Supreme Court (state or federal).

Sound like typical excuses to me. Personally I think all three of them are/were wrong.
I don't think the President (any President) or any Governor should be second guessing the judicial system. Thats up to the Supreme Court (state or federal).
If the judicial system was so great them there would be no need to make excuses...



Living in reality is a great thing...

If the judicial system was so great them there would be no need to make excuses...



Living in reality is a great thing...


When you find a better one let me know. Until then this one should be allowed to function as intended. Not second guessed by those with nothing more than an agenda.

And who and what agenda are you referencing....

Sound like typical excuses to me. Personally I think all three of them are/were wrong.
I don't think the President (any President) or any Governor should be second guessing the judicial system. Thats up to the Supreme Court (state or federal).The reason Governors and Presidents have the power to pardon or commute sentences is that it serves as a 'check' to the power of the Judiciary. The theory is that this 'check' helps to create a 'balance' between the branches of government. If an Executive abuses the right to pardon, the theoretical 'check' is for the Legislative branch to impeach the Executive.

And who and what agenda are you referencing....


Carters stance against the VN war.
Ryan's anti death penalty agenda.
Bush making it easier for buddies/cronies.

The reason Governors and Presidents have the power to pardon or commute sentences is that it serves as a 'check' to the power of the Judiciary. The theory is that this 'check' helps to create a 'balance' between the branches of government. If an Executive abuses the right to pardon, the theoretical 'check' is for the Legislative branch to impeach the Executive.
Agreed.. Pay attention here moderate...

To say the Republicans are soft on crime (http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/02/libby.sentence/index.html)would be a huge understatement. They fully support certain kinds of crimes, especially when committed by other Republicans.

When Bill Clinton lied under oath it was a terrible crime worthy of impeachment but when Scooter Libby does it, the crybabies on the right all began demanding this convicted criminal be pardoned...just because he is a Republican.

Well, now their fellow criminal has gotten his free pass and will be back out on the streets very soon.

This is a disgusting travesty of justice and a slap in the face to every law abiding American everywhere.


:rant:

It' s OK Dharm ... another couple of seats just swung in favor of the democrats. We'll take 'em any way we can get them.

The 1st polls are already out and it's 72% against this decision -- it will cost the republicans dearly in Nov '08.

On edit: Make that 82% LOL

The reason Governors and Presidents have the power to pardon or commute sentences is that it serves as a 'check' to the power of the Judiciary. The theory is that this 'check' helps to create a 'balance' between the branches of government. If an Executive abuses the right to pardon, the theoretical 'check' is for the Legislative branch to impeach the Executive.


Anyone who fails to call blanket pardons, and commutations, an abuse needs to revisit civics 101. I think everyone agrees that commuting the sentence (or part thereof) of a crony is abuse.

Just when you think he couldn't piss you off more...

Actually this is just the type of behavior I have come to expect from ALL of our politicians. Hell, look at how the crook from Louisiana is being treated. I'm surprised the one from San Diego was convicted, and jailed.

Gerorge Bush finally did something right in pardoning Libby. He simply didn't go far enough. He should have nullified the fine too.

Libby was being sent to jail because of politics and nothing else. The Democrats couldn't get Dick Cheny so they had to get someone and Scooter Libby was that someone.

He wasn't the one who leaked Valerie Plame's identity. That was Armitage. "Fitzgerald was appointed to find out who leaked Plame’s name. Turns out it was Armitage, who told the FBI as much before Fitzgerald was appointed. But Fitzgerald hauled Libby, and others, before the grand jury supposedly investigating who leaked Plame’s name. Which he knew. The only possible reason for that was to see if they’d lie. Which apparently Libby did. But IT’S A PERJURY TRAP AND IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL." http://crimlaw.wordpress.com/2007/05/27/the-libby-perjury-trap/

Libby's jail sentence was a miscarriage of justice. One that was corrected by the President.

[QUOTE=Frogger]....The only possible reason for that was to see if they’d lie. Which apparently Libby did. But IT’S A PERJURY TRAP AND IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL......QUOTE]

Sound familiar? I mean what guy would NOT lie about having an affair? This is exactly what the Repubs did with Clinton. They knew he would HAVE TO lie about having an affair. I am not defending Clinton, I think both of these cases are wrong!!

Fine, I can see your point. I cannot see the angst of the liberals and Democrats over Libby not going to prison.

Fine, I can see your point. I cannot see the angst of the liberals and Democrats over Libby not going to prison.

Ok. But in this case the lie was not about a blowjob! See the difference? It was about real issues..

Also, once the judicial system made a decision (they could have thrown the case out - but they didn't) we have to respect it.

Fitzgerald already knew who had leaked Plame's name. He went after Libby as a surogate for Cheney. The Democrats wanted their pound of flesh and didn't care who it came from. They simply wanted someone to go to jail. Thankfully GWB did the right thing and pardoned him.

Fitzgerald already knew who had leaked Plame's name. He went after Libby as a surogate for Cheney. The Democrats wanted their pound of flesh and didn't care who it came from. They simply wanted someone to go to jail. Thankfully GWB did the right thing and pardoned him.

basically its ok if its one of yours. That's the motto of the Repubs..
Sad day today for justice...

Also, take your statements and just replace the word "Democrats" with "Republicans" and we will be back to the Clinton years.

Gerorge Bush finally did something right in pardoning Libby.

So you finally admit that up to now Bush has done nothing right?

Did Bush fuck up the Iraq invasion? Damned staight he did? Did Bush try to fuck up immigration policy? Damned straight he did?

He did some things right, ie his tax cuts but he also screwed up royally in some areas.

Gerorge Bush finally did something right in pardoning Libby. He simply didn't go far enough. He should have nullified the fine too.

Libby was being sent to jail because of politics and nothing else. The Democrats couldn't get Dick Cheny so they had to get someone and Scooter Libby was that someone.

He wasn't the one who leaked Valerie Plame's identity. That was Armitage. "Fitzgerald was appointed to find out who leaked Plame’s name. Turns out it was Armitage, who told the FBI as much before Fitzgerald was appointed. But Fitzgerald hauled Libby, and others, before the grand jury supposedly investigating who leaked Plame’s name. Which he knew. The only possible reason for that was to see if they’d lie. Which apparently Libby did. But IT’S A PERJURY TRAP AND IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL." http://crimlaw.wordpress.com/2007/05/27/the-libby-perjury-trap/

Libby's jail sentence was a miscarriage of justice. One that was corrected by the President.
These are republicans.... These guys have money and power to do what they want.. This man won't pay that fine himself.. nor will he suffer because he can't practice law.. the president acted like scooter will be screwed by this even with the commutation.. he did the least he could do for someone that didn't tell the dirty secrets.. this reminds me of...

Remember the scene from Goodfellas when a young Henry Hill went to court and was given a wad a cash from Jimmy (DeNiro) afterwards?

Henry - "I thought you'd be mad."
Jimmy - "I'm not mad, I'm proud of you. You took your first pinch like a man and you learn two great things in your life. Look at me, never rat on your friends and always keep your mouth shut."

We all just watched that scene play out on the national stage. America the fucking beautiful.

Did Bush fuck up the Iraq invasion? Damned staight he did? Did Bush try to fuck up immigration policy? Damned straight he did?

He did some things right, ie his tax cuts but he also screwed up royally in some areas.
His tax cuts have lowered the amount of money the government has and is going to indebt us to China forever....





800 Billion and growing....

Libby was being sent to jail because of politics and nothing else.

No, actually he was convicted of:

two counts of perjury, one count of obstruction of justice in a grand jury investigation, and one of the two counts of making false statements to federal investigators


The moral of the story... the same as always... Republicans think they are above the law.

:thumbs:

Ho, hum. There go the liberals again. The Republicans have everything. The Republicans have too much power. We must punish the Republicans. Same old, same old from the lefty whiners.

Libby will not be going to jail. Bush pardoned him. Suck it up and quit your whining.

Ho, hum. There go the liberals again. The Republicans have everything. The Republicans have too much power. We must punish the Republicans. Same old, same old from the lefty whiners.

Yeah, ignore the facts Frogger, it might make what Bush did more palatable for you. Libby was convicted of a crime by a jury of citizens. I'm sure you believe he was convicted by the Democrats, but it simply is more political hackery on your part.


Libby will not be going to jail.

Yes, and that's what is so outrageous.


Bush pardoned him.

No, Bush commuted his prison sentence. Even Bush said he agreed with the jury's verdict.


Suck it up and quit your whining.

Frogger, you really need to update your rants. Calling everyone you disagree with a "whiner" just makes you look like a partisan hack.

Yawn.


The sentence was inappropriate so Bush commutted it. You don't like it. TFB.

Yawn.


See, even you think your arguments are tiresome. Take a nap.

I guess I'm lucky that I don't really give a damn what you think of issues or of me, Vile. Tell someone who cares what you think.

We must punish the Republicans.

Yes, my immoral, irresponsible friend, we must punish criminals who act as if they were above the law. That is the whole point of having laws.


Libby will not be going to jail. Bush pardoned him.

So wrong on so many levels....

Bush did not pardon Libby, he commuted his sentence.

Apparently you share Bush's belief in tolerating criminal behavior.

:rolleyes:

putting emotions and political loyaltys aside, what exactly did Libby get a pardon from, and has anyone ever been pardoned for such a thing before?

Republicans are definitely guilty of crimes, and letting people off the hook.

But to only report it one way, like the creator of this poster did, would be about as partisan as you can get.

Democrats are just as involved in crime on the whole.. of course there are good apples in both camps, but i would say the majority of both parties are pretty corrupt.

And if you want to talk about pardons, the big daddy of all pardoning was Bill Clinton... So if we are talking pardons let's start there.

DCphdman,

Frist: Libby was not pardoned.

Seccond: Under Federal law Plame was not considered a covert officer.

Third: The charges against Libby were trumped up to begin with.

I suggest you cut the crap.





I did not as of three hours ago support impeachment. This man defies our laws with such contempt as if he wrote them himself, or just changes them so he can do his bidding. How can a man tell a CIA operatives name to the press. Lie that he didn't do it. Then get pardoned. I am sickened by this as many of fellow American's get harsher punishment for considerably lesser crimes. Being a white man and republican seems to give you a lot of rights to do whatever you want.






Sad :(

This entire argument is idiotic. I can't even side with either viewpoint here, because honestly you all sound stupid.

How can a man tell a CIA operatives name to the press. Lie that he didn't do it. Then get pardoned.
2. Being a white man and republican seems to give you a lot of rights to do whatever you want.
1. Psssstt, Cronkite. Who leaked a CIA name? Who was pardoned?

2. Yeah, like the right keep abreast of current events. I'm sorry you haven't been granted similar privileges.

I did not as of three hours ago support impeachment. This man defies our laws with such contempt as if he wrote them himself, or just changes them so he can do his bidding. How can a man tell a CIA operatives name to the press. Lie that he didn't do it. Then get pardoned. I am sickened by this

There was never the slightest doubt in my mind that B*sh would let Libby off the hook and make certain that he would not go to jail.

I predicted it on these boards a month ago.

B*sh cannot take a chance on Libby beginning to stew in a jail cell and calling Fitzerald and beginning to spill the beans about what and how B*sh and his band of crooks concocted their fucking campaign of LIES that sent this nation to war.

If you ever wanted evidence of how thoroughly deceitful and hypocritical the RightWing assholes in this country can BE, you need look no further than this thread.

They were up in arms when Clinton (who was railroaded into a court) wound up lying about something of no consequence whatsoever to this nation as a whole; now that a scumbag Republican has lied about a matter that is far, far more serious than a meaningless sexual dalliance, now that he has been convicted of said lying, now that he has been sentenced to jail time, and now, finally, that he has been given the Get Out of Jail Free card by B*sh, it suddenly becomes of NO consequence whatsoever to these hypocritical fucks that this person lied in court. They brush it aside with smarmy assed comments such as as --

"Oh well, it was all just a set up"

"Oh well, he didn't deserve the punishment the judge gave out"

"Oh well, it's over and done with, forget about it"

"Oh well, he really didn't do anything that wrong anyway"

"Oh well, Plame wasn't anyone. It doesn't matter"

Fucking sickening.

freethinker, libby is not on trial for leaking, he is on trial for lying. I guess in your world lying about sex is no big deal, while lying about whatever libbly lied about is. Sadly for you the court doesn't look at what the subject of the lie is. In the eyes of the law libby and clintons offense were on the same level, regardless of whatever emotional spasms you may be going through. You don't seem to care that Clinton lied, you seem to care that some Vice presidiential aide did. That is your problem.
So, as you berate the rublicans for caring about clintons lie and not libbys, you are doing the same exact thing, only switched the other way around.

Hey FT and Dharm,

Please use your superior intelect and read this word for word.

Then tell us what you think. Thanks


freethinker, libby is not on trial for leaking, he is on trial for lying. I guess in your world lying about sex is no big deal, while lying about whatever libbly lied about is. Sadly for you the court doesn't look at what the subject of the lie is. In the eyes of the law libby and clintons offense were on the same level, regardless of whatever emotional spasms you may be going through. You don't seem to care that Clinton lied, you seem to care that some Vice presidiential aide did. That is your problem.
So, as you berate the rublicans for caring about clintons lie and not libbys, you are doing the same exact thing, only switched the other way around.

freethinker, libby is not on trial for leaking, he is on trial for lying. I guess in your world lying about sex is no big deal, while lying about whatever libbly lied about is. Sadly for you the court doesn't look at what the subject of the lie is. In the eyes of the law libby and clintons offense were on the same level, regardless of whatever emotional spasms you may be going through. You don't seem to care that Clinton lied, you seem to care that some Vice presidiential aide did. That is your problem.
So, as you berate the rublicans for caring about clintons lie and not libbys, you are doing the same exact thing, only switched the other way around.

What's your point Trav? I seem to recall you shouting just as loud as anyone that Clinton should have been punished for lying.

Btw, in my world lying about a blowjob isn't a big deal, while lying about who told you classified information, and who you told it to, is a big deal. Do you honestly see no difference?

I guess in your world lying about sex is no big deal, while lying about whatever libbly lied about is.

100% correct.

Lying about a sexual fling -- as it concerns what sort of job a politician will do running the country-- is of ZERO concern to me. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Zero.

Lying about who wrongfully provided you with classified information, for the purpose of ruining the lives of certain of your political opponents........Yes. To me, that absolutely is a very *big deal*.

DCphdman,

Frist: Libby was not pardoned.

Seccond: Under Federal law Plame was not considered a covert officer.

Third: The charges against Libby were trumped up to begin with.

I suggest you cut the crap.
First off if you think it isn't a pardon then your sadly mistaken. It will be in the end. Mark my words.

Second. It does not matter what she was doing for the CIA. If it wasn't that big of a deal that her name was leaked in regards to what she does we wouldn't be at this point in the game.

Third... Oh well...

There was never the slightest doubt in my mind that B*sh would let Libby off the hook and make certain that he would not go to jail.

I predicted it on these boards a month ago.

B*sh cannot take a chance on Libby beginning to stew in a jail cell and calling Fitzerald and beginning to spill the beans about what and how B*sh and his band of crooks concocted their fucking campaign of LIES that sent this nation to war.

If you ever wanted evidence of how thoroughly deceitful and hypocritical the RightWing assholes in this country can BE, you need look no further than this thread.

They were up in arms when Clinton (who was railroaded into a court) wound up lying about something of no consequence whatsoever to this nation as a whole; now that a scumbag Republican has lied about a matter that is far, far more serious than a meaningless sexual dalliance, now that he has been convicted of said lying, now that he has been sentenced to jail time, and now, finally, that he has been given the Get Out of Jail Free card by B*sh, it suddenly becomes of NO consequence whatsoever to these hypocritical fucks that this person lied in court. They brush it aside with smarmy assed comments such as as --

"Oh well, it was all just a set up"

"Oh well, he didn't deserve the punishment the judge gave out"

"Oh well, it's over and done with, forget about it"

"Oh well, he really didn't do anything that wrong anyway"

"Oh well, Plame wasn't anyone. It doesn't matter"

Fucking sickening.
Agreed

Do you honestly see no difference?
Maybe, but then again, there was certainly no difference in the outcome, was there? Undoubtedly, there were many shades of gray with the Libby investigation, indictment and subsequent sentencing - and if we're really going to cry foul here, then, well, let's make it an apples to apples comparison: can you say the same thing about Clinton's situation and subsequent perjury? I didn't think so.

Personally, I take more offense at my president lying on stand than I do when a VP's aide becomes the pawn for a political lynching that was moot on many levels.

What's your point Trav? I seem to recall you shouting just as loud as anyone that Clinton should have been punished for lying.

Btw, in my world lying about a blowjob isn't a big deal, while lying about who told you classified information, and who you told it to, is a big deal. Do you honestly see no difference?

PAGAN, when did I ever say libby should not be punished or agree with libby getting off? He was convicted and should do his time, same as Clinton. They both broke the law and as government officials who we should be able to trust they should at least be removed from their positions. Can we agree on that?
And again, how we may feel personally about the actual lie is of no concern. what is important is how the law sees the lie, and as far as I know it does not matter what you lie about under oath. you could say your grandma wears a red hat when in reality she wears a green hat. If you are under oath you may as well be lying about the location of a hiden nuke in NYC.

....now that a scumbag Republican has lied about a matter that is far, far more serious than a meaningless sexual dalliance,
Freethinker, to prove how wrong you are, the two men (three if you count Joe Wilson at cocktail parties) who admitted to "outing" Superspy weren't even prosecuted.

Libby perjured himself in a trial for which there turned out to be no underlying crime (like Martha Stewart). Sadly, Fitzgerald knew this on his first day.

Sadly, Fitzgerald knew this on his first day.

Can you prove that claim?

:)

Can you prove that claim?

Before I bother trying, what will you say if I do?

Before I bother trying, what will you say if I do?

I would be suprised if you even tried.

:rolleyes:

I would be suprised if you even tried.
Show some balls. You challenged me. What will you say if I prove the point?

he will flee the thread like the coward he is.

How quick you whinny liberals forget about your boy Sandy Burgler getting off Scott free!!! hopefully Bush will give Libby a full pardon along with the 2 border patrol agents you low life liberals sent to prison for doing there jobs. if anybody deserves to go to prison it's Bill And Sillary Klinton

What will you say if I prove the point?

*YAWN*

Provide some evidence for once and I will say "wow, I am surprised."

Don't bother, because I already looked into it and apparently the department of justice and the prosecutor knew about Armitage weeks before the investigation began but began it anyway because they felt there was still more going on.

But Libby's Lying managed to stonewall the investigation and obstruct justice... and now the President is complicit in that obstruction of justice.

he will flee the thread like the coward he is.

So says the craven chickenhawk. :rolleyes:

you would need a butcher knife to slice the partisanship in this thread

It's not easy to prove hate-radio rhetoric.

putting emotions and political loyaltys aside, what exactly did Libby get a pardon from, and has anyone ever been pardoned for such a thing before?


Meet Victor Rita... (http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2007/03/comparing_lewis.html)

:thumbs:

you would need a butcher knife to slice the partisanship in this thread

Yes, it is amazing how certain partisan hacks will defend and condone criminal behavior.

:rolleyes:

Dharmabum,

Congratulations, you have achieved new heights of both partisanship and nastiness. Way to go!

Dharmabum,

Congratulations, you have achieved new heights of both partisanship and nastiness. Way to go!

Don't worry Frogger. I will never be able to hold a candle to you in either of those catagories.

:thumbs:

I don't know about that, Dharma. In the last few days you have indirectly called me scum and directly insulted me and anyone else who dares disagree with you on any subject. You have not once argued on the merits of a situation but have invariably resorted to name calling.

In the last few days you have indirectly called me scum and directly insulted me and anyone else who dares disagree with you on any subject.

:YAWN:

Specifics please...

:rolleyes: