http://www.meetanatheist.com/2005/11/top-10-reasons-to-be-atheist.html

# 10. No reason to listen to Christian contemporary music. Boy, does it suck!
# 9. Free to enjoy real life and not worry about an imaginary afterlife. We atheist look forward to a bright future for mankind and not to the destruction of the world in holy wars or Armageddon.
# 8. Atheists can sleep-in on Sundays. Of course, we realize that most self-proclaimed Christians also do this, but we don't have any guilt over it.
# 7. No Bible (or other holy book). We atheists don't have to spend an inordinate amount of time defending ridiculous ideas, contradictions and atrocities from 2 thousand year old books.
# 6. Guilt Free Mocking of Pope and other religious nuts. Religion has given the atheist a plethora of wonderful characters to deride and mock at will such as Pat Robertson, the Nazi-youth Pope and Fred Phelps.
# 5. SEX! Atheists do not feel obligated to be ashamed of our natural human instincts and biology. We can fully explore our sexual selves without any inappropriate guilt imposed by some fisherman or religious nut 2 thousand years ago (or any other author of religious texts).
# 4. No Rejection of Science and our own intellect. Atheists do not have to ignore scientific evidence which demonstrates the falsehoods of religious dogma. We are free to explore our intellect without any 'blind spots' imposed by faith. I suppose this is why the average atheist is smarter than the average believer.
# 3. Atheists are in Great Company. Atheists and agnostics have always been leaders in the advancement of mankind from primitive thinking to an enlightened view. Here is a great list of famous atheists. Even if we (atheists) are wrong, think of how much fun Hell is going to be! I am sure that Mark Twain has swindled Beelzebub from power and Einstein and Thomas Edison have probably worked out the whole Hellfire problem to achieve a climate not unlike St Petersburg, Florida.
# 2. No Sky Daddy. Is there anything creepier than the idea of a great 'Sky Daddy' looking down at you at every moment? Or even worse, your dead relatives peeking in on your life at inopportune moments. We atheists take responsibility for our own actions and answer to our fellow man, not to some Santa for adults.
# 1. No Christians after the Rapture! This is assuming that they are right, which is completely unlikely. But even so, could an atheist imagine a better world than one in which all the 'true believers' were suddenly whisked away to free the world of religious division and hatred and allow mankind to put our effort into improving the real world and this life for a change!

My responses -

#10 - I'm told lots of Christian Rock actually pretty good, even if I wouldn't touch it with fireman's gloves. (unless I had the jaws of life!) Not to mention all the religiously inspired music from other religions.

#9 Such an overwhelmingly anti-Christian outlook, there are plenty of religions that forecast a bright future for man. As if every war out there was a holy war! In actuality, very few of today's wars have much to do with religion.

#8 Most churches have evening mass, as well as Saturday services. Even during the week sometimes!

#7 Nor do we have a concentrated body of lore to pass down to generations on how to live ethically and fully. As full of holes as the Bible is, it's convenient for that purpose.

#6 Kim Jong Il, Saddam Hussein, Rajneesh?

#5 In continuing with the Christian focus of this essay, Christianity does not look at sex as evil. In fact, they look at the sex that the vast majority of the nation engages in as good healthy and wholesome. Sex out of wedlock, homosexual sex, this is looked down on by many organized religions, but if you care so much, find a new church, sheesh, or go non-denominational.

#4 You can still practice Christianity or whatever and still agree with evolution.

#3 Even if that first statement were true, (it most certainly isn't) there's still many many religious figures throughout history that theists can be proud of.

#2 There's nothing about atheism that makes you more prone to take responsibility for your own actions. In fact, many atheists have a nihilistic streak that is the complete opposite of responsibility.

#1 Here goes the "If Christianity would just go away, the world's problems would just go away with it!" thing again. I'm not buying.

Being an atheist, I don't need to make lists of reasons why I'm not a theist. I don't need to justify or apologise for it. I don't need to belittle Christian practices in order to do so. I will do it, though, whenever I feel some Christian is taking advantage of my niceness to try to "politely" suggest to me religious literature, i somehow need to read; making an ass out of himself on a web forum, or just too forthcoming with his opinions as to why the world sucks.

Yes Christians have bad opinions of atheists. Holy shit, we are actually part of a minority! Big deal. That's no excuse to give Christians more reasons to hate us. Stupid little opinion pieces like this one do nothing to spread the word about why it's neato-cheeto to be an atheist. All it does is get your idiot blog audience going, "Haha yah doesn't the poop suck!" while pissing off more sophisticated theists, who end up thinking there's nothing more to atheism than kids whining about authority.

I would like to, one day, be open about my lack of faith and not get demonized for it, and folks, this isn't the way.

Being an atheist, I don't need to make lists of reasons why I'm not an atheist. I don't need to justify or apologise for it. I don't need to belittle Christian practices in order to do so. I will do it, though, whenever I feel some Christian is taking advantage of my niceness to try to "politely" suggest to me religious literature, i somehow need to read; making an ass out of himself on a web forum, or just too forthcoming with his opinions as to why the world sucks.

Yes Christians have bad opinions of atheists. Holy shit, we are actually part of a minority! Big deal. That's no excuse to give Christians more reasons to hate us. Stupid little opinion pieces like this one do nothing to spread the word about why it's neato-cheeto to be an atheist. All it does is get your idiot blog audience going, "Haha yah doesn't the poop suck!" while pissing off more sophisticated theists, who end up thinking there's nothing more to atheism than kids whining about authority.

I would like to, one day, be open about my lack of faith and not get demonized for it, and folks, this isn't the way.
I was actually crafting a response like this in my head as I was reading that list, until I got to your responses section. Good post, Nappy.

It is a good post. Thanks for sharing your perspective, Nappy. I would, actually, enjoy knowing more of the atheist perspective on things, honestly...especially mature, non-Christian bashing perspectives, such as what you posted here. Thanks!

:)
Kimi

oohh, nice Nappy!

Being an atheist, I don't need to make lists of reasons why I'm not a theist.
Wrong, bitch! You have to explain to us why you are not a good Christian this instant because not having our religion makes explanation mandatory!!

I would, actually, enjoy knowing more of the atheist perspective on things, honestly...especially mature, non-Christian bashing perspectives, such as what you posted here. Thanks!

:)
Kimi
You might try the works of Richard Dawkins.

But let me elaborate a little more on the atheist perspective. Atheists get somewhat peeved when asked to justify or explain their stance as it pertains to God. This is because it is very, very simple to understand. You don't believe in God, you don't believe in an afterlife, you don't need churches, Bibles or a divinely inspired morality to get you by in day to day life. That's it. There's nothing more to it.

What Christians mostly want to know when they pop the question is why have they rejected all of this stuff. It's a pretty loaded question, and it's always a precursor to a religious conversation aimed at converting the non-believer. If you do not think you are trying to do this when you ask an atheist why he or she doesn't believe in God, then that will only make it more difficult for a real connection to take place, and you are more than likely to alienate the other.

A lot of times I'll get the old, "How can you live a life so empty?!" or some variation on how the believer would imagine a life without God. This is also an annoying question to ask atheists, because it presupposes a paradigm the atheist doesn't buy in to. It doesn't particularly bother the atheist to not have an afterlife, and you shouldn't expect him to have a strong opinion about it.

A fundamental problem is the expectation of the believer's belief system to be respected by the other. He demands the atheist to explain his position in terms that won't offend him. This is very difficult for many atheists to do, because they very well don't respect Christianity. Most of us think of it all as silly myth perpetuated by systematic hoodwinking and social pressure. But since the demand for tact is present, they have to soften their rhetoric. This the believer often mistakes for a willingness to be talked back into faith, which is categorically foolish, alienates the atheist, and makes him lose respect for you.

Atheism is not a logical thing, and you cannot argue a person out of it. A person becomes an atheist for much the same reasons as he becomes a believer, a long pattern of seeing the world a certain way and then forming a world-view about it. A person can follow a religion without being a believer. But when he starts really believing in religion, that process is much the same as when he starts rejecting religion. Following a religion without believing in it will turn many people into atheists. That's how it happened to me, and the vast majority of atheists in this country who grew up in Christian homes. They never believed in the Christian faith, and in order to reconcile their world-view, they either became atheists or agnostics.

Thanks for your explanation, Nappy. While I don't understand where you're coming from, I do respect where you're coming from. I don't believe in organized religion because I had it shoved down my throat for so many years, was married to a preacher for seven years who physically and emotionally abused me because he was so screwed up in the head from all the things he had shoved down his throat growing up. I broke that cycle for my boys when I had enough and divorced him. I then spent a lot of time looking for a church home in several different denominations, only to be sorely disappointed in the people and teachings, at every turn. I've not attended church in a very long time, but that has nothing to do with my faith and spirituality. I never lost that, regardless of what idiots I ran across. I know how easy it would be to turn athiest or agnostic, from past experiences, thus I do respect where you are coming from. I absolutely cannot stand someone trying to shove their beliefs off on me and will not hear a word they are saying if a 'holier than thou' attitude comes across to me. I still believe in a higher power and always will. It's worked in my life and the lives of those I care about too many times for me not to believe.

I appreciate your post. And, I appreciate your attitude.

Thanks!
Kimi

Atheism is not a logical thing, and you cannot argue a person out of it.
What the hell did you eat today? Are you on drugs? Atheism is based on reason whilst theism is unreasonable, and people can convert to religions while being atheist.

Mskimi, don't try out the books of Richard Dawkins if you don't want to hear a sharp tongue. While he is mature, he is fierce.

Atheism is based on reason whilst theism is unreasonable
Atheism is sometimes, but not always, based on reason. Theism is sometimes, but not always, unreasonable. You shouldn't be so arrogant as to presuppose what drives people to their religious beliefs, and it's an incredibly simplistic view to say "X is reason while Y is the opposite." This is divisive and not at all representative of the real world.

I'll give you an example. I was having a couple beers with the landlord on Sunday in his back yard, and he started talking about religion. He said that he no longer believes, because with what he has seen (death, etc.), he can no longer believe in a god. Now, the question I ask you is, isn't that a wholly emotional (emotion being antithesis to reason) cause for what seems to be, at the very least, an agnostic, if not atheistic, viewpoint? Not to mention, I have met plenty of people with very reasonable arguments for the existence of a god. I don't buy into your false dichotomy here, and I'm surprised that you would.

Borg are you not going home for the summer?

Borg are you not going home for the summer?
By home you mean Florida? I was there for a couple weeks in May.

By home you mean Florida? I was there for a couple weeks in May.

Oh, yes that's what I meant...thanks... I was just surprised that you were spending the summer there. Don't know why really but just was.

cheers

I don't buy into your false dichotomy here, and I'm surprised that you would.
Whether it's Pepsi or Coca Cola, America and Canada, or theists and atheists, the world always sees conflict. Conflict is the centre of life, it is what drives everything. It's about "us versus them," and you only win by not being fair-minded. Now, excuse me but I have churches to burn and Bibles to piss on.

Whether it's Pepsi or Coca Cola, America and Canada, or theists and atheists, the world always sees conflict. Conflict is the centre of life, it is what drives everything. It's about "us versus them," and you only win by not being fair-minded. Now, excuse me but I have churches to burn and Bibles to piss on.

To me,history shows that religious people have killed and conquered non-believers more often that atheists have returned the favor.

The times that atheists seem to have rebelled is because of the aggressive discrimination practices of the religious, as with the German uprising against the Jews.

It appears that the term "heathen" made the destruction of South and North American Indians perfectly moral and legal at the time.

There are other examples, I am sure, and then there are the examples of times that one religion has conflict with another religion.

Yes, there are many conflicting opinions; when you add religion to conflict, the blood often flows.

Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Ill, Hitler, have killed more humans in the name of no religion, in the name of The Sate, then all the other religions combined, easy. The total number of wars fought over religion in the history of mankind is higher, but as far as humans killed, religious murder cant hold a candle to State sanctioned killing. Stalin alone killed tens of millions in russia. Tens of millions more died in Vietnam, cambodia, China, N Korea and so on and so forth. Probably 100 million plus in the last 100 years. People killed in the name of religion probably is approaching 10 million in the past 5,000 years.

Hitler doesn't count.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity

(Borrowed from another thread.)

I find these labels (atheist, theist, agnostic) insulting, superfluous, and unnecessary.
You either feel something inside yourself resembling humility, faith, spirituality and reverence, or you don't.

Call me crazy, but I find the eagerness to label yourself as either 'theist, atheist, or agnostic' something akin to stumbling into the insultingly overly-simplistic comfort zones of 'liberal or conservative', 'Democrat or Republican', or 'Earnhardt fan or Jeff Gordon fan'.

In the late 1960's and early 1970's, it seemed that the popular thing to do was to reject the labels imposed upon you by others.
Here in the New Millennium, it is now vogue to pull convenient labels onto yourselves, in order that you can quickly and easily define yourselves and demonstrate that identity without actually having to think too Goddamn hard.

Jesus Christ.
We are all evolving creatures.
Capable of learning and growing.
(And we have the right to change our minds every now and then.)

What's so wrong with that?

(Borrowed from another thread.)

I find these labels (atheist, theist, agnostic) insulting, superfluous, and unnecessary.
You either feel something inside yourself resembling humility, faith, spirituality and reverence, or you don't.

Call me crazy, but I find the eagerness to label yourself as either 'theist, atheist, or agnostic' something akin to stumbling into the insultingly overly-simplistic comfort zones of 'liberal or conservative', 'Democrat or Republican', or 'Earnhardt fan or Jeff Gordon fan'.

In the late 1960's and early 1970's, it seemed that the popular thing to do was to reject the labels imposed upon you by others.
Here in the New Millennium, it is now vogue to pull convenient labels onto yourselves, in order that you can quickly and easily define yourselves and demonstrate that identity without actually having to think too Goddamn hard.

Jesus Christ.
We are all evolving creatures.
Capable of learning and growing.
(And we have the right to change our minds every now and then.)

What's so wrong with that? And I don't remember anyone saying that it is wrong to change our minds or that there is anything wrong with learning or growing. But if you think that people call themselves atheist,agnostic or even theist without thinking abou that is an insult in my opinion. How would you even know how much each individual thought about the subject? And this is a forum for debate so a label might help you know who your dealing with!

Nah, sorry.
I'll have to reject that thought-process little sister.

In my mind, anyone who hastens to find a convenient label for themselves is all too quick to give up and turn their lazy backsides on the independence and freedom of choice that we all hold so dear (and that some of us fought for in distant lands, thank you very much).

When somebody makes it a point to broadcast in a loud and strident voice, "I am an atheist, or a Republican, or a vegan (and oh by the way, anybody who doesn't join my little clique or club is way wrong)" then here's how I see it:

They are broadcasting something to the effect of, "Hey look at me. I have inserted this nose-ring into my nostrils and hooked myself into the links of the sturdy chain that lead to the popularity grist-mill. But MY nose-ring is green, whereas all those other losers in the line have got the yellow nose-ring!!"

Screw that.
I just don't cotton to sheep-like behavior.

:matrix:

I call myself an atheist out of convenience. It saves me the trouble of having a twenty minute conversation explaining my exact position only to have my interlocutor say at the end, "Oh, you're an atheist! Why didn't you say so!"

Besides, you Sparky, of all people, should know the folly of not conforming for the sake of not conforming. So, which kind of non-conforming do you find adequately non-conforming?

It's the all too convenient polarizing to the extremes that I find so ignorant, lazy, and unnecessary.
Dems versus Conservatives.
Atheists versus Christians.
Ford versus Chevy.
East coast gangstas versus West coast niggaz.
And there's no room for the gray in between.
The unpopular, disconcerting, uncomfortable gray in between.

It's all bullshit, and it's just sad.

Christ, people.
Be who you want to be, or better yet, be who you really are and not who you think everyone else thinks you ought to be.

.

So, basically, what you're saying is, conflict disgusts you. People shouldn't organize around common sets of shared principles, they should all not conform to anything and just be a big mass of people who can't decide on anything.

So, basically, what you're saying is, conflict disgusts you. People shouldn't organize around common sets of shared principles, they should all not conform to anything and just be a big mass of people who can't decide on anything.


No, Nappy. You mis-read me, and it's perfectly understandable for I did not articulate my point very well.

I understand conflict, and embrace the idea of man's need for conflict.
It's the rush to the polar extremes of the conflict that I find sad and disappointing.

I admire decisiveness, and in fact it's one of the core competencies for success in life, in my opinion.

But it's the hasty decision to label one's self by someone else's definition and standards that I find disheartening. And further, having now jumped on the one popular bandwagon, feeling it is one's duty to continue to define one's self by slagging all those who have jumped on the OTHER (polar opposite) bandwagon as well.

Let's say there's this neighbor kid. He's an interesting and intelligent young guy, and very creative and open minded. He lives in a free-spirited household, and his parents are loving and supportive bohemians. The kid plays his dad's guitar, and (for a junior high school kid) he shows an impressive talent for original song writing. The parents have exposed the kid to all types of music, and he genuinely LOVES all types of music. His i-pod is inhabited with songs by Hank Williams, Metallica, Eminem, Andreas Segovia, Buck Owens, Robert Johnson, Split Enz, Green Day, Snoop Dogg, and even Abba.

You admire this kid, and his spirit of independence. You are happy to hear that he's going to attending the same high school where you went, and you wish him well there.

You go off to the Air Force for a couple of years, and then come back to your home town for a visit. You look forward to checking in on your neighbor kid, and seeing how his life is going. You drop by, make polite conversation with his mom and dad, and then go up to his room to say hi.

Nap: Hey bud, how's it going?

The kid: Napsterbator! It’s good to see you, dude.

Nap: You too, little brother. Say, what are you listening to on the i-phone there?

The kid: Ah, it’s a band called Bucket of Pig Guts. They’re a speed/death-metal zydeco band.

Nap: Interesting. What else are you into these days? I notice your t-shirt with the Hammer of Pain logo. Is that a Country band or what?

The kid: Oh hell no. They’re also speed/death-metal zydeco. At the high school now, everyone’s either into speed/death-metal zydeco, or else they’re Country music fans. Speed/death-metal zydeco rules, and Country sucks, so I’m all about the speed/death-metal zydeco now.

Nap: Oh, ok. That would explain the ‘Country Music Blows Dead Bears’ bumper sticker on your car.

The kid: Yeah. Those other kids are all such hayseeds and losers. My speed/death-metal zydeco friends are the coolest kids by far, and that’s the crowd I am with.

Nap: Jeez. So you don’t listen to any blues anymore? Or gypsy guitar music? You used to love Django Reinhardt, as I recall.

The kid: Are you kidding, man? The other guys would kill me if they found me listening to that crap. No, you gotta be into speed/death-metal zydeco, or nobody gives you the time of day. That’s just how it is.

Nap: Eh. Water seeks its own level, I guess.

The kid: Say, you wanna ride over to the civic center later on with me and my friends? There’s a Shania Twain concert on this evening, and us speed/death-metal zydeco guys are gonna protest in the parking lot. Hold up some ‘Country Music Sucks’ signs, and maybe kick of few of those Country fan’s asses. Are you in?

Nap: No, I gotta go kill myself now. (stands up and shakes the kids hand) It was good seeing you, man. You have a good time tonight.

The kid: You bet I will!!

Nap: (standing in the doorway) Say, there’s your Dad’s old guitar. Looks like it’s collecting a lot of dust. You don’t play anymore?

The kid: Naw. Speed/death-metal zydeco doesn’t translate well to the acoustic guitar. And besides, what’s the point of sitting around trying to make up original songs? There’s so much good commercial and popular stuff available to download. It’s better this way, and much easier.

Nap: Yeah. OK, ‘bye.

The kid: (donning his i-phone ear buds) ‘Bye.

http://forums.aliensoup.com/images/smilies/shakehead.gif

I need that bears bumpersticker...

Kids will be kids, dude. Your example will more than likely pick Dad's guitar back up, dust it off, and start making songs again sometime in his college years. Meanwhile the experience he has dealing with his current clique will serve him well once he finally gets a job and realizes that the rest of the world operates in exactly the same way. Don't underestimate a teenager's need for validation and a peer support group. This sort of thing may even bring out a child's latent leadership abilities, things that would have gone completely unused holed up in his room playing guitar and writing songs. Sure, it might look stupid to you, but if he doesn't get it out of his system now, he's going to be one fucked up twenty-six (or maybe forty six!) year old, getting it out of his system then.

Precisely.
And thanks for helping to make my point.

My feeling is that all too many of our allforums posters are at the stage of emotional development, self-awareness, and political awareness of my hypothetical 'kid' in that analogous story.

All too eager to jump on somebody's bandwagon, identify themselves with somebody else's label, and then waste precious breath and precious brain-cells denigrating others who have jumped on the polar-opposite bandwagon.

I just admire people who are willing to live on the fringes, disengage from the popular extremes, hold opinions from the gray areas, and simply be themselves.

Evolving, increasing and incrementally-wise (maybe even jaded), and above all, true to their own individual spirit.

My hat is off to those people.

:)

"The only thing a non-conformist hates more than a conformist is another non-conformist who fails to conform to the prevailing guidelines of non-conformity."

:thumbs:

It's the all too convenient polarizing to the extremes that I find so ignorant, lazy, and unnecessary.
Dems versus Conservatives.
Atheists versus Christians.
Ford versus Chevy.
East coast gangstas versus West coast niggaz.
And there's no room for the gray in between.
The unpopular, disconcerting, uncomfortable gray in between.

It's all bullshit, and it's just sad.

Christ, people.
Be who you want to be, or better yet, be who you really are and not who you think everyone else thinks you ought to be.

.

Hey!
I like Chevy.

Sunday, July 8, 2007
MELBOURNE, Australia - The Hell family says it may tell a Catholic school in Australia where to go after it objected to enrolling their son because of his name.

Officials said the boy had been offered a place at the St. Peter the Apostle school in the southern city of Melbourne after discussions between the principal, the parish priest and the family over his name.

But Alex Hell said he would rather send 5-year-old Max elsewhere because the school balked at taking the boy over his family name.

"We are the victims of our name," Hell said Monday.

Hell said he and his wife approached St. Peter the Apostle school about enrolling Max because the boy was being bullied at his current school because of his name, the Herald Sun newspaper reported on its Web site.

The Catholic school supported a plan to enroll Max using his mother's maiden name, Wembridge, but then withdrew its invitation when the parents changed their minds about the name, Hell said. The school backed down and offered Max a place only when Hell took the issue to the media, he said.

"The school has turned around and said Max can go there, but why would you want to go there after being victimized?" Hell said.

The family was considering moving to his wife's hometown to find a different school, he said.

Director of Catholic Education in Victoria state, Stephen Elder, said using the boy's mother's name was the parents' idea to "assist the child in the transition of schools."

"After discussions between the parish priest and principal, St. Peter the Apostle School has made an offer of enrollment to the student," Elder said in a statement. "The school is working with the family in the best interests of the child."

Hell said he had Austrian heritage and that the name means "bright."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Hell_Frog_Warrior

"The only thing a non-conformist hates more than a conformist is another non-conformist who fails to conform to the prevailing guidelines of non-conformity."

:thumbs:

dharmabum, that was fun :) ! And extremely true! What you said is going to make me "smile" and laugh everytime I think about it :) !

I have to go away and compose myself :)

Tucker58

dharmabum, that was fun :) ! And extremely true! What you said is going to make me "smile" and laugh everytime I think about it :) !

I have to go away and compose myself :)

Tucker58
Tucker, before you start running around quoting Dharma, please know that wasn't an original line he posted. As is true with many of his 'words of wisdom' they actually belong to someone else:

If there is anything the nonconformist hates worse than a conformist, it's another nonconformist who doesn't conform to the prevailing standard of nonconformity. -- Bill Vaughan

There... now you can smile and laugh.

:)
SMW

When all is said and done, Christian contemporary is pretty bad, Nap.

Christian music is absolutly horrible, I agree.

Christian music is absolutly horrible, I agree.
I disagree. I do think Evak is right about Christian contemporary, but my favorite artist Johnny Cash happened to do a lot of gospel music and Christmas carols which are quite nice.