Religious Truth, is there any?

This is a Religion Forum with Philosophy added to it. This puts religion into the category of Philosophy, with the understanding that Philosophy is considered a non science (Tucky looks at Nappy and others and smiles :) )

This Forum called "Religion and Philosophy", is to give/create a place for religious folk and non religious folk a place to share ideas and interact (in a verbal sense :) ) about the subject of religion.

If you are for religion, and are actually relgious, is there any truth to "Religion", as a concept and a way of life and possibly science? If you are not religious, then you are the challenge :) Do you non relgious folks have any guts :) ?

Tucker58 :)

For the answer to this question, and many other such questions that may concern you, please refer to this very helpful website.

http://www.400monkeys.com/God/

Religious Truth, is there any?

This is a Religion Forum with Philosophy added to it. This puts religion into the category of Philosophy, with the understanding that Philosophy is considered a non science (Tucky looks at Nappy and others and smiles :) )

This Forum called "Religion and Philosophy", is to give/create a place for religious folk and non religious folk a place to share ideas and interact (in a verbal sense :) ) about the subject of religion.

If you are for religion, and are actually relgious, is there any truth to "Religion", as a concept and a way of life and possibly science? If you are not religious, then you are the challenge :) Do you non relgious folks have any guts :) ?

Tucker58 :)
Hi Tucker,

I'm a Scientologist because it can be demonstrated in Scientology that we are spiritual beings not bodies. Before I became a Scientologist I spent over a year researching spiritual phenonema until I could no longer ignore the evidence. I becamse a Scientologist because even though it was nice to feel pretty sure we don't die when our bodies do I wanted to know for sure.

I don't know what you mean by "Religious Truth". If you are asking if there are any claims in any religions that are true, I'd say yes. There are some things that religions say that are true, and some things they say that are false. I don't think you need a religion to determine these, though.

There are some things that religions say that are true, and some things they say that are false. I don't think you need a religion to determine these, though.

Right - any truth should be able to be measured or experienced in some way - otherwise in what sense is it a truth?

Don't force to look anything that being nowhere.
See yourself and everything that being around here.

Hi Tucker,

I'm a Scientologist because it can be demonstrated in Scientology that we are spiritual beings not bodies. Before I became a Scientologist I spent over a year researching spiritual phenonema until I could no longer ignore the evidence. I becamse a Scientologist because even though it was nice to feel pretty sure we don't die when our bodies do I wanted to know for sure.

Hi Schloon! You and I agree on this :) My approach is from the "Union with God" approach. Our body is the temple of God (or at least can be :) ). And it turns out that you can't be truly occupied by the presence of God and not become as God is. You can not be occupied by Perfection and not become as that Perfection is. You become what you channel :)

Most Hindu Scripture, the Tao, and Jesus, all teach us how this is done. The system that Jesus taught is the simplist. And what is funny is that the results of being truly occupied by God can be measured by medical science. :) Being occupied by God results in extremely long life spans, physical immortality, and in some cases "ascension". Folks leave and take their bodies with them :)

So Schloon does Scientology say/teach anything about "physical Immortality"? And/or one's body being the temple of God? Just for fun :)

Tucker58

I don't know what you mean by "Religious Truth". If you are asking if there are any claims in any religions that are true, I'd say yes. There are some things that religions say that are true, and some things they say that are false. I don't think you need a religion to determine these, though.

Hi Uncoolduck! Generally the phrase "Religious Truth" would be concidered an "oxymoron" :) My hope with this topic was to get some folks with many different approaches to Religious Truth together to hammer things out :) just for fun. (It should be understood that the concept of "hammer" should be such that we do not invoke Borghunter as "Sheriff" :) )

And you are right, "one does "not need religion to determine these" :)

Tucker58

So Schloon does Scientology say/teach anything about "physical Immortality"? And/or one's body being the temple of God? Just for fun :)

Tucker58

Physical Immortality? Not really even though we are more than a little knowledgable about diet, health and not getting sick. But physical immortality isn't particularly attractive to me as a Scientologist. :)

Physical Immortality? Not really even though we are more than a little knowledgable about diet, health and not getting sick. But physical immortality isn't particularly attractive to me as a Scientologist. :)

Schloon physical immortality is not attractive to me either. To me as a student of religion and as a yogi it is a curiosity though. You study Scientologist to extend your life span, from there one could say that it is just a matter of degree.

So Schloon may I ask you this, "In Scientology what part does your mind play in the scheme of things?" Technically I am a mind yogi and for me the mind is the key to everything, including ones relationship with God. So my question is, "What is the story of the mind in Scientology?" Just for fun.

Tucker58

Scientology was formed out of LRH's research into the mind which was published in Dianetics.

The mind is not you, but a storage bank for pictures and experiences. It's not really necessary. It becomes problematic when pictures are stored there but hidden in the unconscious. That leads to stimulus response actions, misemotion and illogic. You can find these hidden pictures and move them from the unconscious mind to the analytical mind. By doing this you rehabilitate your ability to enjoy life and your spiritual ability.

Scientology was formed out of LRH's research into the mind which was published in Dianetics.

The mind is not you, but a storage bank for pictures and experiences. It's not really necessary. It becomes problematic when pictures are stored there but hidden in the unconscious. That leads to stimulus response actions, misemotion and illogic. You can find these hidden pictures and move them from the unconscious mind to the analytical mind. By doing this you rehabilitate your ability to enjoy life and your spiritual ability.

Schloon :) What you have posted is cool! Coberst should have a look at this :) relative to psychology.

Schloon one does not even begin to be a yogi until one experiences a quiet mind. The mind is all and the mind is nothing. That is where things start to get interesting.

Schloon what you and I are seeking here is common ground so that we (all of us on this messageboard) can explore and discuss your knowledge of Scientology, for the benefit of all of us. Most folks have heard about Scientology, but it is just a weird cult thing :) I am inclined to think that there is some sense here based on what you have just posted here, realitive to my experience as a yogi.

So lets start here, "What you put thought into lights up and is healthy. What you don't put thought into becomes sick and dies :) " Our personality programming tells us how things should be, and generally our programming kills us :) . Otherwise we would all be immortal.

So generally speaking what Scientology has to do, if it is going to be successful, is to figure out a way to bypass a person's programming. This includes attitude, diet, exercise, and dealing with social pressures. Oh, and there is the concept of "Boredom" :) this kills alot of people.

In my world as a yogi, one can control their autonomic nervous system. And generally speaking it is very simple. If progamming shuts down your immune system, then activate it on purpose. Attitude, diet, and exercise is abit more difficult, because they may require some programming changes :)

So Schloon how are we doing so far in our attempt to find common ground?

I really do want to learn more about Scientology. Alot of folks swear by it and its benefits. And I want to explore it as a concept with someone who has been there and done it.

Tucker58

And what is funny is that the results of being truly occupied by God can be measured by medical science.


How?

I never thought I'd find myself wondering the same thing Freethinker is.

I never thought I'd find myself wondering the same thing Freethinker is.

I love you guys :) ! You are fun!

How? :)

Will one thing you can do is run them through an MIR and have a look at their brain activity :) You will find parts of their brain very awake that are nomally not awake in normal people and you will find that their whole brain is very awake, not just parts of it. :) And you will find that their thymus gland is not shrinking.

Anyway guys this is pretty much a future reality because most folks that are actually occupied by God in todays world are keeping themself out of sight :) Fair enough :)

Tucker58

Thats pretty cool tucker.

Is there any research online?

Schloon :) What you have posted is cool! Coberst should have a look at this :) relative to psychology.

Thanks Tucker, it's rare to meet such a positive person as yourself on the internet!

Schloon one does not even begin to be a yogi until one experiences a quiet mind. The mind is all and the mind is nothing. That is where things start to get interesting.

Agreed!

Schloon what you and I are seeking here is common ground so that we (all of us on this messageboard) can explore and discuss your knowledge of Scientology, for the benefit of all of us. Most folks have heard about Scientology, but it is just a weird cult thing :) I am inclined to think that there is some sense here based on what you have just posted here, realitive to my experience as a yogi.

Good. That some people call us a weird cult is proof that we're doing something right. :) It's relatively easy to stir up hatred in your fellow man - look at what Hitler and others managed to achieve - total world turmoil in only a few years. Just think if all that effort had been channelled into a good cause!


So lets start here, "What you put thought into lights up and is healthy. What you don't put thought into becomes sick and dies :) " Our personality programming tells us how things should be, and generally our programming kills us :) . Otherwise we would all be immortal.

The body dies at least, but this doesn't necessarily mean we're not immortal.

So generally speaking what Scientology has to do, if it is going to be successful, is to figure out a way to bypass a person's programming. This includes attitude, diet, exercise, and dealing with social pressures. Oh, and there is the concept of "Boredom" :) this kills alot of people.
In my world as a yogi, one can control their autonomic nervous system. And generally speaking it is very simple. If progamming shuts down your immune system, then activate it on purpose. Attitude, diet, and exercise is abit more difficult, because they may require some programming changes :)

Agreed. We are obviously superior to our bodies, and need to be able to control and look after them. Actually people nearly always get sick because something gets triggered in their mind, and then they get sick as protective mechanism - the idea is "look at me - i'm no danger - I'm sick." So in Scientology whenever someone gets sick we find the thing encouraging the person to be sick and handle it so that the situation doesn't arise again.


So Schloon how are we doing so far in our attempt to find common ground?

Not bad. Scientology has a lot in common with some Eastern religions arising out of Buddhism. You could say that LRH just refined the path to higher levels of existence so that it was more precise and easy to follow, and also put an organisation in place to protect it, and prevent anti-social people from hiding it.

I really do want to learn more about Scientology. Alot of folks swear by it and its benefits. And I want to explore it as a concept with someone who has been there and done it.
Tucker58
Well feel free. :) I'm only a Scientologist because it's so useful and works.
I'm happy to answer any of your questions, though we have a principle in Scientology that when you're studying a body of knowledge you should try and get as close to the source of that knowledge as possible. An in my own experience no one explains Scientology quite as well as LRH does. :)
http://www.whatisscientology.org/ and
http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/ have a lot of interesting stuff for you to read!

Agreed. We are obviously superior to our bodies, and need to be able to control and look after them. Actually people nearly always get sick because something gets triggered in their mind, and then they get sick as protective mechanism - the idea is "look at me - i'm no danger - I'm sick." So in Scientology whenever someone gets sick we find the thing encouraging the person to be sick and handle it so that the situation doesn't arise again.

schloon, I find this concept quite fascinating especially in light of a few potential physical challenges I had recently. My partner and I both decided that in spite of some medical evidence indicating that I "might" be ill, we were both convinced that I was not. The reason being we are both pretty in touch with and aware of our physical bodies and that of each other. Further extensive testing showed that there was no problem. I was thankful, but unsurprised.

While I can't say I subscribe to the notion of illness as a protective mechanism in all cases, I can see where I could in some cases.

Can you give me some examples of what you believe would be an illness inducer? What would you define as "the thing encouraging the person to be sick". I know it would vary of course but a few examples would be interesting.

I will have more questions but don't know what direction they should go in until you explain a bit further.
Thanks,
Sal

And what is funny is that the results of being truly occupied by God can be measured by medical science.


How?


Will one thing you can do is run them through an MIR and have a look at their brain activity. You will find parts of their brain very awake that are nomally not awake in normal people ...

Firstly, the medical study that forwards this *very wide awake brain* claim..........where did you read about it? Where can it be found?

Secondly, for the sake of argument let us say that a person who believes in an unseen omnipotent entity DOES have parts of the brain that are "very awake" that are not awake in normal people.

What proof has been given that an "occupation by God" is the cause of the 'more awake' brain........???

...and you will find that their whole brain is very awake, not just parts of it. And you will find that their thymus gland is not shrinking.

Ok. The medical study that made these findings concerning the thymus gland and proved that "God occupation" was the source of the non shrinking thymus gland; ..........where did you read about it? Where can it be found?

I'd be extremely interested in reading such a study.

Religious Truth, is there any?

This is a Religion Forum with Philosophy added to it. This puts religion into the category of Philosophy, with the understanding that Philosophy is considered a non science (Tucky looks at Nappy and others and smiles :) )

This Forum called "Religion and Philosophy", is to give/create a place for religious folk and non religious folk a place to share ideas and interact (in a verbal sense :) ) about the subject of religion.

If you are for religion, and are actually relgious, is there any truth to "Religion", as a concept and a way of life and possibly science? If you are not religious, then you are the challenge :) Do you non relgious folks have any guts :) ?

Tucker58 :)

I would say that Philosophy is the basis of Science. Philosophy came about first. Greek, Roman and Eastern Philosophers all had methods of discerning the physical and non-physical world around them.

Religion itself is a philosophy. It's a set of beliefs which may or may not be true. The validity of the philosophy is tested over a period of time. If enough people continue to believe in God, the philosophy of Christianity will carry on. However, if people stop believing in God, Christianity will likely fade away and be replaced with another philosophy. Be that a scientific or "religious" one, we do not yet know.

Religion itself is a philosophy. It's a set of beliefs which may or may not be true. The validity of the philosophy is tested over a period of time. If enough people continue to believe in God, the philosophy of Christianity will carry on. However, if people stop believing in God, Christianity will likely fade away and be replaced with another philosophy. Be that a scientific or "religious" one, we do not yet know.

As long as human beings continue to fear death, there will be a significant portion of humanity capable of lying to themselves to the requisite degree, rejecting reason and logic and maintaining in their minds the fantasy that some otherworldly power exists that can "save" them.

Thats pretty cool tucker.

Is there any research online?

No Inviolable, not yet. I will probably be the first one that is "Poked and Probed" by medical science. And God help me if FreeThinker and his buds are in the room :)

Which by they way, they will be. Talk about being vulnerable :) Aren't the Godless fun :) ! Nobody in their right mind would ever want to serve God :) right FreeThinker :) ?

Tucker58

As long as human beings continue to fear death, there will be a significant portion of humanity capable of lying to themselves to the requisite degree, rejecting reason and logic and maintaining in their minds the fantasy that some otherworldly power exists that can "save" them.

Fear is a powerful motivator but there are plenty of religions that promote death as a period of transition and not as something to fear.

I personally do not want to die, but I accept it will happen one day and that's it.

No Inviolable, not yet. I will probably be the first one that is "Poked and Probed" by medical science. And God help me if FreeThinker and his buds are in the room :)

Which by they way, they will be. Talk about being vulnerable :) Aren't the Godless fun :) ! Nobody in their right mind would ever want to serve God :) right FreeThinker :) ?

Tucker58


http://www.brainmattersinc.com/

I went down to the shade of the spring-fed creek that runs through my land today, and I knelt down and rinsed my hands off in the cool, clear water.

The sun streamed down through the trees, and lit the scene in a beautiful light. Gorgeous green foliage, white and yellow honeysuckle, and a coating of black and brown on the rocks that revealed the imprint of fossilized creatures more than two million years old.

It was staggeringly beautiful, and more than a little bit humbling.

Did my awe at the beauty reveal a reverence for the God who may have created all this, or a simple appreciation for the serendipity that I am alive, and in a position to inherit and appreciate all this, if only for a comparatively short period of time?

Was this all part of a grand plan, or just happenstance?
Who cares?
I enjoyed it, and it brought me peace and happiness. That was enough for me.


http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/300W/images3.deviantart.com/i/2004/135/b/0/speed_painting___trees_1.jpg

I went down to the shade of the spring-fed creek that runs through my land today, and I knelt down and rinsed my hands off in the cool, clear water.

The sun streamed down through the trees, and lit the scene in a beautiful light. Gorgeous green foliage, white and yellow honeysuckle, and a coating of black and brown on the rocks that revealed the imprint of fossilized creatures more than two million years old.

It was staggeringly beautiful, and more than a little bit humbling.

Did my awe at the beauty reveal a reverence for the God who may have created all this, or a simple appreciation for the serendipity that I am alive, and in a position to inherit and appreciate all this, if only for a comparatively short period of time?

Was this all part of a grand plan, or just happenstance?
Who cares?
I enjoyed it, and it brought me peace and happiness. That was enough for me.


http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/300W/images3.deviantart.com/i/2004/135/b/0/speed_painting___trees_1.jpg

Sparky welcome! But at the same time you leave no room for argument :) !

Arrg! But at the same time :) the world needs more people like you!

Tucker58

http://www.brainmattersinc.com/

Inviolable that was (just in my personal opinion) a cool website!

So Inviolable, may I ask this question, "Do you as a cognizant individual think that God actually being present and loved in one's body/temple can/could actually effect one's brain activity and immune system?"

Revelation 11:1 "And there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Rise and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and those who worship in it."

What might that fellow be measuring if ones body is the temple and one worships God from the altar of one's heart?

Science and folks like FreeThinker say that God can't be proven by science (Oh yes, and that God is a total stupid concept and a waste of time). Maybe if we are entering the last days, unexplainable changes in the physiology of one's body might create a reality where science and others have a look at God as an option :) One says that they are a Christian, but one's temple is not occupied by God :) according to medical science, might be interesting, and that might be a version of, "There is no place to hide :) " Maybe :)

Like I told you before :) I am abit over the top for a cookie :)

Tucker58

Can you give me some examples of what you believe would be an illness inducer? What would you define as "the thing encouraging the person to be sick". I know it would vary of course but a few examples would be interesting.


Sal - do you know what I mean by the reactive mind?

The most usual thing that results in something triggering something in your reactive mind which ends up making you sick is someone in your environment who is overtly or covertly trying to make things unpleasant for you.

Inviolable that was (just in my personal opinion) a cool website!

So Inviolable, may I ask this question, "Do you as a cognizant individual think that God actually being present and loved in one's body/temple can/could actually effect one's brain activity and immune system?"

Revelation 11:1 "And there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Rise and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and those who worship in it."

What might that fellow be measuring if ones body is the temple and one worships God from the altar of one's heart?

Science and folks like FreeThinker say that God can't be proven by science (Oh yes, and that God is a total stupid concept and a waste of time). Maybe if we are entering the last days, unexplainable changes in the physiology of one's body might create a reality where science and others have a look at God as an option :) One says that they are a Christian, but one's temple is not occupied by God :) according to medical science, might be interesting, and that might be a version of, "There is no place to hide :) " Maybe :)

Like I told you before :) I am abit over the top for a cookie :)

Tucker58

Yes I think God can effect anything that he needs to, including the brain.

I have a theory, that problably wont even be considered rational for another 50 years or so. At least according to a futurist I have been reading about.
The futurist shows how our knowledge of the brain will be drastically more then it is now.
Which made me think of my theory. Which is...

Based on Emotions.
Say for instance my favorite color is red, now say we can narrow down why I like the color red.
Why exactly red sets off the emotional responce that makes it my favorit color.
We wouldnt be able to do that with the emotional responce we get from God, because it comes from God.
And if we can do this in every aspect of our lives with the exception of religion, then we can see even more of Gods love at work then we do now.
In effect we would have a way to measure Gods love. Which I'm sure would confuse a lot of people.

This is Inviolable and thats my deep thought.

As long as human beings continue to fear death, there will be a significant portion of humanity capable of lying to themselves to the requisite degree, rejecting reason and logic and maintaining in their minds the fantasy that some otherworldly power exists that can "save" them.

And the harm in this would be?

John 14:11 "Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very work's sake."

Seems that the above quote is saying believe that there is more to man than man alone and merely believing this would have a positive effect in a negative world.

And the harm in this would be?

John 14:11 "Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very work's sake."

Seems that the above quote is saying believe that there is more to man than man alone and merely believing this would have a positive effect in a negative world.

I like the gospel of John best.

Sal - do you know what I mean by the reactive mind?

The most usual thing that results in something triggering something in your reactive mind which ends up making you sick is someone in your environment who is overtly or covertly trying to make things unpleasant for you.No Schloon I can't say that I know what you mean by the reactive mind. My guess would be from what you have written that it is a part of the mind that takes in data and then feeds a reactive response to the body.

So then you believe that someone's thoughts or negative feelings toward another individual can trigger an illness which then makes that first person believe that the other individual is weak and therefore not worth bothering with or messing with in a negative way.

Would that be what you mean?

You are on the right track with the reactive mind. It's the part of the mind that is a useful survival mechanism for animals like fish - they get bitten in yellowish waters once then they get scared of yellowish waters the next time - but it causes a lot of unncessary pain and suffering to us with such developed analytical minds.

Yes. Someone saying unpleasant things or invalidating you can easily trigger something in your reactive mind that causes what you said to happen, similar to a spider playing dead. This isn't so much a belief but demonstrable fact - I have cleared up some illnesses in minutes when I've been helped to find the trigger and erased it. By knowing exactly how this works and how to handle it you become extremely seldom ill.

Yes I think God can effect anything that he needs to, including the brain.

I have a theory, that problably wont even be considered rational for another 50 years or so. At least according to a futurist I have been reading about.
The futurist shows how our knowledge of the brain will be drastically more then it is now.
Which made me think of my theory. Which is...

Based on Emotions.
Say for instance my favorite color is red, now say we can narrow down why I like the color red.
Why exactly red sets off the emotional responce that makes it my favorit color.
We wouldnt be able to do that with the emotional responce we get from God, because it comes from God.
And if we can do this in every aspect of our lives with the exception of religion, then we can see even more of Gods love at work then we do now.
In effect we would have a way to measure Gods love. Which I'm sure would confuse a lot of people.

This is Inviolable and thats my deep thought.

Cool Inviolable! I would like to add that God can be experienced. And that Christian Scripture seems to indicate that one can have a personal relationship with Him. Satan would have use think that God is too big, too far away, to just about everything for us little folks to share His reality with Him. Based on my experience this in not real.

We were created in God's and His children's image. We may not be a true offspring of God. But Scripture says that we can be an adopted child of God. When you are created in the image of someone else there is no difference between you and them, at least relative to potential. You have the same foundation that they have :)

The only real question is, "Are you willing to recieve your heritage as a child of God?" Adopted or otherwise! Satan says that it can't be done. Jesus says that it can be done. Based on my experience, I have to agree with Jesus.

Inviolable, I know that you love God, I can feel it in your heart. If you were to experince the emotion of God you would be breaking out in "Loving Tears". God's emotion can be experienced, it is just that it is abit overwhelming :)

Knowledge of God and one's heritage as an adoprted child of God? Only God can teach this to you. Scripture says that "The Holy Spirit" will teach you. Based on my experience this is real.

Inviolable you are loved you know!

Tucker58

And the harm in this would be?

John 14:11 "Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very work's sake."

Seems that the above quote is saying believe that there is more to man than man alone and merely believing this would have a positive effect in a negative world.

Whoa Dan :) That one is the Kicker! It is based on my experience the "KEY" to everything :) !

Inviolable, Dan has Scripture and verse :) !

Tucker58

Hi FreeThinker! Wecome to this topic!

Tucker58

You are on the right track with the reactive mind. It's the part of the mind that is a useful survival mechanism for animals like fish - they get bitten in yellowish waters once then they get scared of yellowish waters the next time - but it causes a lot of unncessary pain and suffering to us with such developed analytical minds.

Yes. Someone saying unpleasant things or invalidating you can easily trigger something in your reactive mind that causes what you said to happen, similar to a spider playing dead. This isn't so much a belief but demonstrable fact - I have cleared up some illnesses in minutes when I've been helped to find the trigger and erased it. By knowing exactly how this works and how to handle it you become extremely seldom ill.

Hm, interesting...thanks schloon.

Religious Truth, is there any?

Like politicians, preachers don't do anything for free.

Like politicians, preachers don't do anything for free.

Hi es347fan and welcome to this topic!

As a "rule of thumb" what you say is sadly true :)

And the concept of "sheep" gets real scary out there in the world of religion. One's heart has to go out to them. There are alot of folks out there that consider "sheep", idiots to be fleeced. It breaks my heart.

Tucker58

Hm, interesting...thanks schloon.

You're welcome. More information about it here:

http://www.humanmind.org/