George Bush is quickly melting away his goodwill amongst many a
Conservative and in particular his base.
In point of fact,He has drastically lost pledge monies from normal
voters and supporters." Not a penny " is being echoed when
Republican pledge callers make their usual calls to supporters who
pledge money to the Republican Party.
All on account of Bush's inflexible stance on Immigration and
diehard refusal to budge.
Like Rock Hudson in - Giant - {1956} in the closing scene where
this Texas Oil Baron,whose daughter-in-law is Mexican and they
stop into a Local Beanery,to sit down and order.The sign is clearly
visible. ** No Mexicans Served **.
Jordan 'Bick' Benedict {Rock Hudson} now old and graying,along with
Liz Taylor take seats with their Family including the Mexican
Daughter-in-Law. A big strapping Short order cook,with cocked beanie cap
and cocky smile,is seen with spatula in hand and also like he takes no
guff,no matter if 'Bick' literally owns an entire range {over 10,000 acre}
of Texas. The Short-order cooks walks over to where 'Bick' and family are seated and points to the sign and then the Mexican daughter with
spatula and stern look.Well,it takes little time before a great fight scene
breaks out with very Ameican Military music playing,as if their fighting for
Flag & Country.Mrs.Benedict {Liz Taylor} looked worried but also very proud that her Cattle Rancher/Oil Baron hubby decides to fight for what is right and true.Most Americans have seen this Edna Ferber classic.- Giant - is
a great movie and was James Dean's Last.
I shore Hope Georgy Porgy don't done watch it until after he leaves office.
That final scene is all it wood take.
Bush would NEVER change his mind on Immigration,THEN.!
And Maybe NOW,as well.

ROFL!! Well done, Foolsworth. :)

I was listening to Rush yesterday and he was nearly beside himself going on about how disingenuous Bush was being with his "it's not an amnesty" stuff. I couldn't help but smile -- Bush's lies are obvious enough when it's your ox that is being gored.

ROFL!! Well done, Foolsworth. :)

I was listening to Rush yesterday and he was nearly beside himself going on about how disingenuous Bush was being with his "it's not an amnesty" stuff. I couldn't help but smile -- Bush's lies are obvious enough when it's your ox that is being gored.

Nice guy Tony Snow was on O'Reilly last nite explaining iin his
friendly,non-abrasive way that Bush is very passionate about
illegals and immigration.After all he was Governor of Texas and knows
exactly about border security and what mexians feel and also
the impact of his troubling Immigration bill.
But,selling it to Rebubbies ain't a gonna be easy.
Or even prudent.No matter how Bush feels,inwardly about Latino's
rights to work here,he also need pay even closer attention to those
Americans who aren't Breaking Citizenship laws and have More rights
than mere theory.
Bush's Theory,soon to become Law,is just that.It isn't Fact.
Bush can't change Fiction into Fact.Or Fact into cushy Fiction.
The Fact is...Any Illegal is breaking the Law...Now.
Wheter or not the fine for illegal entry in Texas is $0 or zilch.
And first time fines for employers caught employing Illegals is like $250.
Making it legal to NOT follow Immigration procedure is also a way
of breaking the law.Bush want to Break current Law,in order
to appease the latino base.Some say it's a politically expedient way of
trying to embrace the Latino vote.
And also helps Corporation to keep labor costs down and guarantee
heady profits.
The Democrats are also guilty of appeasing any class of newer voter.

Linda Chavez,recently under attack with her latest article,basically
accusing Americans as highly Prejudice against Mexiicans.
She cited 10% over the board dislike of Mexicans by Americans
since the 40's and surveys being taken.
Miss Chavez,a somewhat staunch Republican visible spokesperson is
articulate and mindfull of what is political.
She bases much of her latest comment on the reactions she says she
always receives,going way back,over years on the Internet.
She cites even mainstream Websites getting doggone nasty and vile
when commenting or E-mailing after she writes or speaks.
Chavez also insists that the entire Immigration Debate is a cooked-up
invention of Media types to scare the average american into worrying
about something that wasn't even discussed in the 90's when Illegal
Immigration was MORE prevalent.
Prior to 2000,Illegal entry was 30% higher than today.
And only 3% of the Public ever mentioned Illegal Immigration as a
key debate issue,until 9/11 happened.

I agree with Ms. Chavez... and empathize with President Bush. It appears MOST hatred for Mexicans comes from people who have little or nothing to do with them. Those of us who live in multi-cultural communities have much more respect for the predominately passive, hard-working, family-oriented Mexican people than those who live in lily-white gated communities and only come in contact with an occasional brown landscaper.

Like someone pointed out the other day... the U.S. would have absolutely NO problem if 11 million PhD's wanted to move here. We can indeed be pompous asses at times.

SMW

[QUOTE=smartmouthwoman]I agree with Ms. Chavez... and empathize with President Bush. It appears MOST hatred for Mexicans comes from people who have little or nothing to do with them. Those of us who live in multi-cultural communities have much more respect for the predominately passive, hard-working, family-oriented Mexican people than those who live in lily-white gated communities and only come in contact with an occasional brown landscaper.

Like someone pointed out the other day... the U.S. would have absolutely NO problem if 11 million PhD's wanted to move here. We can indeed be pompous asses at times.

You're NOT addressing the core issue.Is it Right or even fair for
mexicans to Illegally sneak into our Country and get work,sire children
who get welfare benefits like Education & hospital.? And Citizenship if
born in the states.
What about those Foreigners who patiently applied and still wait for
their Legal entry.? Plus the aggravated fact that MOST Illegals have no
intention whatever in assimilating.They're here exclusively to work
and send most the money back home.In the meantime,other minority
have less chance at those Construction or Service type jobs.
It's a matter of Fairness,and having Americans Decide,not Illegals
just who and how many are allowed entry into OUR Country.
If yer not a Citizen,then you have fewer rights than a Citizen.
The reason Democrats don't make a big stink about Illegals is purely
political.They want to endear themselves to any possible voter
constituency.Speak kinda about Illegals and almost embrace their cause,and they've made
an entire voting block into possible deomcrats.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Y'know...Kinda like that Smarty chicky Pooh.Schmaltz around her
Board,glad-handing and passin round the donuts and free coffe,like it's
nobody's bidness.
Did dat come outright ?

I agree with Ms. Chavez... and empathize with President Bush. It appears MOST hatred for Mexicans comes from people who have little or nothing to do with them. Those of us who live in multi-cultural communities have much more respect for the predominately passive, hard-working, family-oriented Mexican people than those who live in lily-white gated communities and only come in contact with an occasional brown landscaper.

Like someone pointed out the other day... the U.S. would have absolutely NO problem if 11 million PhD's wanted to move here. We can indeed be pompous asses at times.

SMW


I don't know where you and FW have been hiding, for the last 20 years. But illegal immigration has been an issue in California for at least 20 years. As always it has taken the rest of the country that long to catch on.

I agree with Ms. Chavez... and empathize with President Bush. It appears MOST hatred for Mexicans comes from people who have little or nothing to do with them. Those of us who live in multi-cultural communities have much more respect for the predominately passive, hard-working, family-oriented Mexican people than those who live in lily-white gated communities and only come in contact with an occasional brown landscaper.
WTF is wrong with you, SMW!?!?!?! This isn't about hatred or racism or green gnomes for that matter. What these people have done (regardless of their motives) is broken the law (a law in which EVERY other country has), and because of political, and to a lesser extent, corporate, greed - they've been allowed to operate here with impunity. Therein lies the problem; they're fucking here ILLEGALLY. End of story.
Like someone pointed out the other day... the U.S. would have absolutely NO problem if 11 million PhD's wanted to move here. We can indeed be pompous asses at times.
Of course not, because we'd be virtually guaranteed they could offer services to America that went beyond cutting lawns and washing cars. That aside, we could also be virtually guaranteed that they wouldn't resort to working for minimum wage (or unreported cash for that matter) while feeling it necessary to have 20 children here - all of which, statistically speaking, condemned to a total lack of education themselves. Can you say BAD FOR AMERICA?

WTF is wrong with you, SMW!?!?!?! This isn't about hatred or racism or green gnomes for that matter. What these people have done (regardless of their motives) is broken the law (a law in which EVERY other country has), and because of political, and to a lesser extent, corporate, greed - they've been allowed to operate here with impunity. Therein lies the problem; they're fucking here ILLEGALLY. End of story.?


NOT ALL MEXICANS ARE HERE ILLEGALLY!

Linda Chavez,recently under attack with her latest article,basically accusing Americans as highly Prejudice against Mexiicans.
She cited 10% over the board dislike of Mexicans by Americans since the 40's and surveys being taken.


Tell me... where in that statement does it say ILLEGAL MEXICANS?

See, that's where my problem lies. How can you tell the illegals from the Mexican-American CITIZENS? Guess we could go by your philosophy and just HATE them all equally, eh?

Here, Prae, calm down and watch a video:

Mexico Tourism http://www.kerman94.com/mexicotourism

:)
SMW

P.S. I was gonna say welcome back, we missed you. But think I'll wait til you quit screaming.

You're right, Foolie...

You're NOT addressing the core issue.Is it Right or even fair for mexicans to Illegally sneak into our Country and get work,sire children who get welfare benefits like Education & hospital.? And Citizenship if born in the states.

I agree, it's NOT right for ANYBODY to sneak across our borders in search of a better life for their families. If Mexico was in Europe, they'd be sneaking across the border in search of a better life in Russia. Desperate people do desperate things in an effort to save their loved ones.

While I agree it's a problem, I don't think it's a threat to our National Security or American Way of Life. I think it's more of a POLITICAL issue than a social issue.

So, sue me.

:p
SMW

NOT ALL MEXICANS ARE HERE ILLEGALLY!
I understand that.
Linda Chavez,recently under attack with her latest article,basically accusing Americans as highly Prejudice against Mexiicans.


Tell me... where in that statement does it say ILLEGAL MEXICANS?
It doesn't have to. As a matter of fact, it's a touch disconcerting to see 20 million "legal" Mexicans marching here en masse for the supposed "rights" of 15 million people who shouldn't even be here in the first place, so it comes as no surprise to me, whatsoever, that our collective animosity is on the rise. Go figure, eh?
See, that's where my problem lies. How can you tell the illegals from the Mexican-American CITIZENS?
Forcing ALL Americans to carry a bar-coded, foolproof national ID would be a good start. Deporting the offenders we catch on a daily basis would be an excellent second step - not to mention, revoking the law in which makes someone born here an automatic citizen a fantastic follow-up.
Guess we could go by your philosophy and just HATE them all equally, eh?
There you go again being intentionally obtuse (at least, I hope it's intentional…).

That aside, do you ever get tired of that line???
P.S. I was gonna say welcome back, we missed you. But think I'll wait til you quit screaming.
Back at cha, SMW. Now I'll stop screaming if you start listening to reason. ;)

Forcing ALL Americans to carry a bar-coded, foolproof national ID would be a good start. Deporting the offenders we catch on a daily basis would be an excellent second step - not to mention, revoking the law in which makes someone born here an automatic citizen a fantastic follow-up.

Good luck with that one, darlin. I personally wouldn't mind having my forehead stamped with an American flag, but don't think the majority of the country is gonna go for it. Especially those who freak out over wire-tapping being more an invasion of privacy than national security measure.

You call it obtuse... I call it accepting reality.

"By William Branigin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, February 8, 1997; Page A03

The number of illegal immigrants residing permanently in the United States has grown to about 5 million and is rising by 275,000 a year, the Immigration and Naturalization Service said yesterday."

Now, 10 yrs later we are talking about 11-20 million illegal aliens living in this country. Anyone who fails to see this as a major problem, is blind.

Good luck with that one, darlin. I personally wouldn't mind having my forehead stamped with an American flag, but don't think the majority of the country is gonna go for it. Especially those who freak out over wire-tapping being more an invasion of privacy than national security measure.
No one's security is being invaded. No more so than being forced to produce a state ID, a green card, or a visa if the proper authority asks for it. I can't believe you just compared phone tapping to an ID. And since when is being asked to produce proper identification akin to being "stamped with a flag" on your forehead??? If that's truly the case, then you must still think most of Europe (and not to mention, the rest of the world) is being run by a group of Nazis.

P.S. - I love the southern drawl in your messages. :)

No one's security is being invaded. No more so than being forced to produce a state ID, a green card, or a visa if the proper authority asks for it. I can't believe you just compared phone tapping to an ID. And since when is being asked to produce proper identification akin to being "stamped with a flag" on your forehead??? If that's truly the case, then you must still think most of Europe (and not to mention, the rest of the world) is being run by a group of Nazis.

P.S. - I love the southern drawl in your messages. :)
People are asked to see IDs NOW and that still hasn't solved the problem, has it? Actually, I agree we're behind Europe (and the rest of the developed world) when it comes to keeping tabs on our citizens and visitors -- silly us, we call it a free society. But what I'm REALLY pissed off about is something I heard on the news this morning. Do you know the U.S. is the ONLY country among 'developed' nations of the world that doesn't MANDATE employee vacations every year?? Most countries require employers to give employees at least 20 DAYS A YEAR!

Now that really frosts me.

But I digress...

The problem of people entering this country illegally is a complicated one and I don't pretend to know the solution. That's what I elected GW to work on.

;)
SMW

Do you know the U.S. is the ONLY country among 'developed' nations of the world that doesn't MANDATE employee vacations every year?? Most countries require employers to give employees at least 20 DAYS A YEAR!
That doesn't bother me at all. We live in America - if we wanted an economy like Germany's, then we could take 20 day vacations without caring.

That doesn't bother me at all. We live in America - if we wanted an economy like Germany's, then we could take 20 day vacations without caring.

You mean Germans don't Like Night Vacations.?
I nude they were funny about beer.
And some their pretzels are as big as tires.
I wonder if Kant had any buggers in his closet?

Doctrine of Virtue
" By a lie a man throws away and,as it were,annihilates his
dignity as a man. "
-- Immanuel Kant

I think if the EU was ajoined to the US, most Latinos would try to get into Europe first.
WE get compulsory Holidays-u can work em if u want, for xtra cash.
WE get free medical cover anywhere in the EU,all I have to do before going on Holiday to say, Spain, is fill in an E111 form and give it to the travel agent,this covers me for half a million Euros, if I have an accident.
WE get free education up to university level.
WE dont get pulled apart in airports.
WE dont watch American Football.
WE dont live next door to Canada,
so all in all.
The EU would be first preference.

Prior to 2000,Illegal entry was 30% higher than today.
And only 3% of the Public ever mentioned Illegal Immigration as a
key debate issue,until 9/11 happened.People in New York and California were talking about it plenty.
It's the rest of the country that thinks this just started as an issue.
The costs are finally being reported and now it's no longer a matter of isolated pockets footing the bill. Now everyone realizes they're paying for this.

That's why everyone else has woken up.

Do you know the U.S. is the ONLY country among 'developed' nations of the world that doesn't MANDATE employee vacations every year?? Most countries require employers to give employees at least 20 DAYS A YEAR!

As a condition of employment an employee would know that going in, bid the boss good-day and seek employment elsewhere. If enough people were smart enough to do this, the boss would start offering vacations tomorrow.

Fortunately for those people, they live in a country where there are plenty of other jobs.

I think if the EU was ajoined to the US, most Latinos would try to get into Europe first.
What do you think the compassionate EU reaction would be?

We should treat our southern border crossers the way Mexico treats theirs.
Instant arrest and deportation.

I think if the EU was ajoined to the US, most Latinos would try to get into Europe first.
WE get compulsory Holidays-u can work em if u want, for xtra cash.
WE get free medical cover anywhere in the EU,all I have to do before going on Holiday to say, Spain, is fill in an E111 form and give it to the travel agent,this covers me for half a million Euros, if I have an accident.
WE get free education up to university level.
WE dont get pulled apart in airports.
WE dont watch American Football.
WE dont live next door to Canada,
so all in all.
The EU would be first preference.
LOL, that's great Paul.

I think if the EU was ajoined to the US, most Latinos would try to get into Europe first.
Probably. Hell, I'd love it if you could accommodate those people, because if you could, I'm sure you'd be the first to roll out the welcome mat with a few free beers and a room to sleep in.

You know, it's a crying goddamned shame that we don't share a border seeing as to how most Mexicans would probably far prefer being in the company of compassionate, forward-thinking Europeans while they wax philosophical on "holiday" as opposed to, let's say - working for ruthless, cutthroat Americans. Free social services in Europe, you say......for EVERYONE?!? How magnanimous of your respective governments, indeed. It must feel great to preach from you soapbox about how much better it is there for "people" when you only pay a portion of your taxes. I'm glad you're a socialist, but only "kind of", Paul - it's incredibly heart-warming to know how well that system really works.

I'm sure they would pick you guys over us. You're far more alike then we are.

I'm sure they would pick you guys over us. You're far more alike then we are.[/QUOTE]

WoW
I'm,they,you,us,You're,we !
Are ya done sure

"By William Branigin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, February 8, 1997; Page A03

The number of illegal immigrants residing permanently in the United States has grown to about 5 million and is rising by 275,000 a year, the Immigration and Naturalization Service said yesterday."

Now, 10 yrs later we are talking about 11-20 million illegal aliens living in this country. Anyone who fails to see this as a major problem, is blind.
There are 300 MILLION citizens in this country, Moderate. I'd hardly call 11 million people who want to become citizens a MAJOR problem. Do you not realize the great majority of these 'illegal' people are simply working folks? Do you not realize some of them are little kids and GRANDMOTHERS?

Maybe Prae should change his avatar to include Pedro and his Granny.

;)
SMW

And since when is being asked to produce proper identification akin to being "stamped with a flag" on your forehead???

The fact that you cannot recognize the aptness of the comparison only highlights the fawningly subservient **"I will bend over and take it up the ass any time you say, Master, if you'll only proteeeeeect me!!!!"** mentality that is all too common in this country.

The fact that you cannot recognize the aptness of the comparison only highlights the fawningly subservient **"I will bend over and take it up the ass any time you say, Master, if you'll only proteeeeeect me!!!!"** mentality that is all too common in this country.

Being Peevish is NO way to start the week out.
S''not eben in Dogpatch.

WTF is wrong with you, SMW!?!?!?! This isn't about hatred or racism or green gnomes for that matter. What these people have done (regardless of their motives) is broken the law (a law in which EVERY other country has), and because of political, and to a lesser extent, corporate, greed - they've been allowed to operate here with impunity. Therein lies the problem; they're fucking here ILLEGALLY. End of story.

Of course not, because we'd be virtually guaranteed they could offer services to America that went beyond cutting lawns and washing cars. That aside, we could also be virtually guaranteed that they wouldn't resort to working for minimum wage (or unreported cash for that matter) while feeling it necessary to have 20 children here - all of which, statistically speaking, condemned to a total lack of education themselves. Can you say BAD FOR AMERICA?

Ahhh, this post is like a breath of fresh air....I'm so tired of people playing the racist card for issues which are only incidentally involved in race.

Ahhh, this post is like a breath of fresh air....I'm so tired of people playing the racist card.

There are some who might get real bugged every time they
glimpse the post count on Smarty's Thread/Board.

There are 300 MILLION citizens in this country, Moderate. I'd hardly call 11 million people who want to become citizens a MAJOR problem. Do you not realize the great majority of these 'illegal' people are simply working folks? Do you not realize some of them are little kids and GRANDMOTHERS?

Maybe Prae should change his avatar to include Pedro and his Granny.

;)
SMW

Yes, 11-20 million people are a problem, especially when they CHOSE to become law breakers. They should have applied, and waited for their visa, like law abiding people do.

Maybe we should treat them the same way Mexico treats illegals caught crossing its southern border.
Do you welcome home invaders, as well as those who invade your country?

Speaking of being tired of people playing the race card... here's my pet peeve: People who throw around the word ILLEGAL like we're talking about several million murderers and rapists instead of several million hard-working families.

I'd be willing to bet there's not ONE of you who's never broken the law yourself. If you've ever had a few beers and gotten behind the wheel... snorted a little fun at a party... smoked a little weed... left some item off your income tax filing... drove a little over the speed limit...

Well, you get my drift.

Most all of us have been illegal at one time or another. And our motives for doing so were much less serious than trying to secure a better future for our families.

So, get off the ILLEGAL crap or else fight for everyone who's ever done anything ILLEGAL in this country to be deported... then get to packing your own damn self.

After all, we're ALL ONLY HUMAN. (or at least MOST of us are)

SMW

Here are 7,570,00 reasons to be concerned about illegals. Have a nice read.

http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?fr=ybr_sbc&p=cost%20of%20illegal%20immigration

This is my favorite:

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/

Here are 7,570,00 reasons to be concerned about illegals. Have a nice read.

http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?fr=ybr_sbc&p=cost%20of%20illegal%20immigration

This is my favorite:

http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/
Thanks for the reading material. Should be taken with a grain of salt considering the majority of 'illegal' immigrants pay their way in cash, which is next to impossible to convert to statistics. One way to fix that $10 billion problem, Moderate. Make them all citizens so they can legally pay their fair share.

;)
SMW

Thanks for the reading material. Should be taken with a grain of salt considering the majority of 'illegal' immigrants pay their way in cash, which is next to impossible to convert to statistics. One way to fix that $10 billion problem, Moderate. Make them all citizens so they can legally pay their fair share.

;)
SMW


You mean like we did in 1986? Boy that was some success. Solved that problem, didn't we?

Speaking of being tired of people playing the race card... here's my pet peeve: People who throw around the word ILLEGAL like we're talking about several million murderers and rapists instead of several million hard-working families.

Murderers, rapists, burglars, kidnappers, thieves. There's quite a list:


Justice Dept. Figures on Incarcerated Illegals (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/3/27/114208.shtml)
Monday, March 27, 2006 11:39 a.m. EST

One of the more popular claims by illegal immigration proponents is that those who enter the U.S. by breaking the law are invariably "hard-working" and "law-abiding" once they get here.

That argument, however, has one major flaw. According to Justice Department statistics and the analysis of immigration experts, the "law-abiding" claim often isn't true.

As Investors Business Daily reported in March 2005:

"The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California's prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces."

Citing an Urban Institute study, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies Steven Camorata noted in 2004: "Roughly 17 percent of the prison population at the federal level are illegal aliens. That's a huge number since illegal aliens only account for about 3 percent of the total population."

Former California Gov. Pete Wilson places the percentage of illegal aliens in U.S. prisons even higher. "We had problems related to the costs of educating children who were acknowledged to be in the country illegally, healthcare costs. One in five in our prison population were illegal immigrants who had been convicted of a felony after entering the country illegally."

The Federation for American Immigration Reform also turned to the Justice Department to get statistics on criminal aliens. They report:

"In March 2000, Congress made public Department of Justice statistics showing that, over the previous five years, the INS had released over 35,000 criminal aliens instead of deporting them. Over 11,000 of those released went on to commit serious crimes, over 1,800 of which were violent ones [including 98 homicides, 142 sexual assaults, and 44 kidnappings].

"In 2001, thanks to a decision by the Supreme Court, the INS was forced to release into our society over 3,000 criminal aliens [who collectively had been convicted of 125 homicides, 387 sex offenses, and 772 assault charges]."

As to the "hard-working" claim, CIS notes: "The proportion of immigrant-headed households using at least one major welfare program is 24.5 percent compared to 16.3 percent for native households."

Investor's Business Daily concurs: "Once [illegals] get here, they are 50 percent more likely to be on welfare than citizens."


You were saying....? :rolleyes:

Speaking of being tired of people playing the race card... here's my pet peeve: People who throw around the word ILLEGAL like we're talking about several million murderers and rapists instead of several million hard-working families.

I'd be willing to bet there's not ONE of you who's never broken the law yourself. If you've ever had a few beers and gotten behind the wheel... snorted a little fun at a party... smoked a little weed... left some item off your income tax filing... drove a little over the speed limit...

Well, you get my drift.

Most all of us have been illegal at one time or another. And our motives for doing so were much less serious than trying to secure a better future for our families.

So, get off the ILLEGAL crap or else fight for everyone who's ever done anything ILLEGAL in this country to be deported... then get to packing your own damn self.

After all, we're ALL ONLY HUMAN. (or at least MOST of us are)

SMW

The area that I live is suffering greatly due to the influx of illegal immigrants. Our health care and school systems are at a breaking point. I harbor no ill will to anyone who is trying to make a better life for themselves, although I do have a problem with it being done on my dime.

There needs to be a multi-step process for this dilemma. First - we need to control our borders (our current "system" of border maintenance is pitiful). Second - we need to register the current immigrants that are here without our knowledge (the government knows everything about me... they need to at least know who the hell is living here). Third - we need to work out a system where these people can be here on a legally monitored status (no, I don't think it's possible/necessary to deport them, only deport the ones that should not be here in the first place (would not pass a background check for a visa). Finally - a new system for immigration should be implemented and followed.

SMW... It's a bit simplistic to say that we all are illegal, exceeding the speed limit is not quite the same as illegally entering another country. By that same logic, I should be able to rob a bank to give my family a better life, without any repercussions? I do understand your sentiment, but the system is broken and the time to point fingers has passed.

I just wish the pandering politicos in D.C. would quit farting around and actually do something for a change... besides pay lip service and continue chest-beating.

WTF is wrong with you, SMW!?!?!?! This isn't about hatred or racism or green gnomes for that matter. What these people have done (regardless of their motives) is broken the law (a law in which EVERY other country has), and because of political, and to a lesser extent, corporate, greed - they've been allowed to operate here with impunity. Therein lies the problem; they're fucking here ILLEGALLY. End of story.

Of course not, because we'd be virtually guaranteed they could offer services to America that went beyond cutting lawns and washing cars. That aside, we could also be virtually guaranteed that they wouldn't resort to working for minimum wage (or unreported cash for that matter) while feeling it necessary to have 20 children here - all of which, statistically speaking, condemned to a total lack of education themselves. Can you say BAD FOR AMERICA?

LOVE THE DEPORT PEDRO AVY!!!

and your post was exellent too :)

Speaking of being tired of people playing the race card... here's my pet peeve: People who throw around the word ILLEGAL like we're talking about several million murderers and rapists instead of several million hard-working families.

I'd be willing to bet there's not ONE of you who's never broken the law yourself. If you've ever had a few beers and gotten behind the wheel... snorted a little fun at a party... smoked a little weed... left some item off your income tax filing... drove a little over the speed limit...

Well, you get my drift.

Most all of us have been illegal at one time or another. And our motives for doing so were much less serious than trying to secure a better future for our families.

So, get off the ILLEGAL crap or else fight for everyone who's ever done anything ILLEGAL in this country to be deported... then get to packing your own damn self.

After all, we're ALL ONLY HUMAN. (or at least MOST of us are)

SMW

Yeas Dearest Pooh pooh.But one STOPS being illegal when the Booze
wears off and no one is injured.Or when the weed runs out.
But an Illegal Alien,from the get Go,manages to rob in the
dead of night,or clear daylight the Respect that Earning Citizenship
awards.Plus all the Gov.'t services such as a better standard of
living,living quarters,food and Fun.
I can't UP and decide to Live in Mexico.
No matter how many Movies paint Goin On the Lam and Flea'n ta
MeaHeeCo.

I agree with Ms. Chavez... and empathize with President Bush. It appears MOST hatred for Mexicans comes from people who have little or nothing to do with them. Those of us who live in multi-cultural communities have much more respect for the predominately passive, hard-working, family-oriented Mexican people than those who live in lily-white gated communities and only come in contact with an occasional brown landscaper.

Like someone pointed out the other day... the U.S. would have absolutely NO problem if 11 million PhD's wanted to move here. We can indeed be pompous asses at times.

SMW

I lived in a town that was 75 % mexican and crime was through the roof. Yes, many are hard working and yada yada yada, but many are scum who start and join gangs and spread crime. We already have our own scum in this country, why import it?

Those who are for amnesty always gloss over the fact that along with waves of mexican immigrants comes waves of crime. Tehy want us to think they are ALL hard working and ambitious. They are not. It is true that there are many upright, religious, hard working mexicans who come here, and I welcome them, but the problem is we are not trying to differentiate between the two.

My major credentials :

Demographics - Dallas, Texas

Population - 1,188,580

Latino 35.6%
White 34.6%
Black 25.9%
Asian 2.7%

I'm not saying there are not criminals among the latino population. But I am saying they are NOT ALL criminals. I'll even stick my neck out a little further and say the greatest majority of crimes committed by hispanics are against other hispanics. Doesn't make it right... adds to the crime #'s just like anything else.

You're right, OldPhart... my reasoning that we're all 'criminals' in our own way is a little simplistic. But IMHO, so is lumping the majority of Mexicans into that category as well.

Like I said before... I think the immigration issue is much more of a political game than a real social issue. Maybe politicians figure if they hand out enough vague material telling people how much the ILLEGAL ALIENS are taking from us... we won't notice the politicians hands in our pockets taking our hard-earned money for their own interests.

VIVA LA MEXICO (blame it on the Mexicans)

:)
SMW

You can partially thank racism against mexicans for the outlawing of marijuana.

What do you think the compassionate EU reaction would be?

We should treat our southern border crossers the way Mexico treats theirs.
Instant arrest and deportation.
Theres no point sorting out the illegals until your borders are secure.
Plain and simple.

Probably. Hell, I'd love it if you could accommodate those people, because if you could, I'm sure you'd be the first to roll out the welcome mat with a few free beers and a room to sleep in.

You know, it's a crying goddamned shame that we don't share a border seeing as to how most Mexicans would probably far prefer being in the company of compassionate, forward-thinking Europeans while they wax philosophical on "holiday" as opposed to, let's say - working for ruthless, cutthroat Americans. Free social services in Europe, you say......for EVERYONE?!? How magnanimous of your respective governments, indeed. It must feel great to preach from you soapbox about how much better it is there for "people" when you only pay a portion of your taxes. I'm glad you're a socialist, but only "kind of", Paul - it's incredibly heart-warming to know how well that system really works.

I'm sure they would pick you guys over us. You're far more alike then we are.
A stop bitchin.
I dont know anyone who likes paying tax, and I dont know anyone who dosent try evasion on some scale.
Mexicans are more like us, tho u white boys all decend from Euro countrys.
Hows that one work.

Here's a good example of people over-reacting to a perceived problem -- from the news this morning...

Wise County, Texas (north of the D/FW area) passed an ordinance banning their hospitals from providing non-emergency care for any person who is not a U.S. citizen. When asked how many illegal immigrants they cared for last year... they answered, "Well, one. But we've had 2-3 phone calls requesting information."

Sad, but true.

SMW

[QUOTE=smartmouthwoman]Here's a good example of people over-reacting to a perceived problem -- from the news this morning...

Wise County, Texas (north of the D/FW area) passed an ordinance banning their hospitals from providing non-emergency care for any person who is not a U.S. citizen. When asked how many illegal immigrants they cared for last year... they answered, "Well, one. But we've had 2-3 phone calls requesting information."

Sad, but true.

" perceived problem " it is not.It is real and viable.
In the last 15 years Illegals have accounted for nearly 12 million
incursions,and add to that the number of Illegal Births that result.
Those 20 million mexicans are bound to clog up Social Services and
drain the cheap labor force,making it very hard for anyone,especially
Minority to find suitable cheap labor.
Add in the fact,that Many if not Most Illegals are here,entirely
to work and send back Home upwards of 80% of their wages.
They have little inclination to assimilate and be Patriotic Citizens.
Therefore they {Illegal Aliens} Definately have NO right to sneak
into America.
I Rest Me Case !

""perceived problem " it is not.""

Is too.

And as long as people keep using terms like MANY IF NOT MOST, the false perceptions will continue.

So there.

A stop bitchin.
I dont know anyone who likes paying tax, and I dont know anyone who dosent try evasion on some scale.
Mexicans are more like us, tho u white boys all decend from Euro countrys.
Hows that one work.
You tell me! :D

Mexicans are more like us, tho u white boys all decend from Euro countrys.
Hows that one work.Evolution

Hopefully we're growing out of and away from the Anglo Saxon mind set, so u could be right.

For some reason people seem to forget, or chose to ignore, the fact this country already has multiple visa types for people wishing to work (temporarily) here.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070611/ts_nm/usa_immigration_agriculture_dc_1;_ylt=AqNPmMslDwzv u0GTXZ7bkFVkM3wV

Why don't more people apply for Ag. work permits? Could it be because the illegals work cheaper, so they get hired first? Or is it because Ag jobs are seasonal, and thus only temporary?

Everyone is an illegal alien in this northern part of the continent and in all of América starting with the invaders that came and stole land from the natives several centuries ago... And from there created their own laws to make themselves legal...

Everyone is an illegal alien in this northern part of the continent and in all of América starting with the invaders that came and stole land from the natives several centuries ago... And from there created their own laws to make themselves legal...

So Sayeth Marlon Brando from his Grave,care of Native Americans.
Problem is,he wanted Cremation and a lot of really choice american
Land was left for Indian Reservation.
If You can name for me a Land,that was NEVER conquered,I'll
gladly accomoidate yer POV on this broached topic.

afghanistan maybe.

Looks like the GOP's use of race-baiting and fear mongering have come back to bite them in the ass and is threatening their supply of cheap labor...

Interesting article in the paper last weekend pointing out the problems with immigration actually started years ago when American employers were allowed to hire Mexicans to perform labor-intensive jobs they had trouble filling. The result we have today is that nearly every hotel maid, window-washer, construction laborer, dishwasher, landscape worker, et al -- is Mexican. And there is no shortage of those type jobs since most Anglo-Americans don't want them... so we're actually dependent on Mexicans.

Many presidents are actually to blame for how we got to the point of relying on Mexicans. It's not a new problem... just one that wasn't expected to get so far out of hand. But thanks to readily available (albeit low-paying) jobs and poor conditions in their home country, millions more than anticipated want to come here.

Republicans AND Democrats both had a hand in overlooking the problem in the past. Lucky GW just happened to be in office when we started demanding a solution.

:)
SMW

[QUOTE=smartmouthwoman]Interesting article in the paper last weekend pointing out the problems with immigration actually started years ago when American employers were allowed to hire Mexicans to perform labor-intensive jobs they had trouble filling. The result we have today is that nearly every hotel maid, window-washer, construction laborer, dishwasher, landscape worker, et al -- is Mexican. And there is no shortage of those type jobs since most Anglo-Americans don't want them... so we're actually dependent on Mexicans.

Many presidents are actually to blame for how we got to the point of relying on Mexicans. It's not a new problem... just one that wasn't expected to get so far out of hand. But thanks to readily available (albeit low-paying) jobs and poor conditions in their home country, millions more than anticipated want to come here.

Republicans AND Democrats both had a hand in overlooking the problem in the past. Lucky GW just happened to be in office when we started demanding a solution.

So,if it ain't broke,don't fix it...Eh ?
But Immigration IS broke.How fair is it for those
WAITING Patiently for thier turn to come into America Legally.,
and NOW will have even more of a wait,because of the clogged system.
You're almost as Bad as Geraldo.
Geraldo would never say anything,even the least untoward about his
Precious Latino/Hispanic/Mexican brothers.
So,that means Geraldo is complicit with his Bias.
He's trying to justify by skewed and illogical means,that which
is plainly wrong and Unfair.
The Great thing about America is it's ability to Play Ball.
PLay fair and let everyone have a turn at bat.
Americans don't like dirty ball.They don't like those who
cheat and expect special favors.Does The latest Paris whinings
ring-a-dinghy ?

I've got an idea.... why don't we just enforce the current laws that are on the books?

Nah... that would be too simple.

:rolleyes:

So,if it ain't broke,don't fix it...Eh ?

How'd you get THAT conclusion from what I wrote?

Of course we need to fix it. But we also need to keep in mind we CREATED this problem and quit blaming innocent people who come here looking for a better life. It was OK to allow them in in the past, but now we're trying to decide whether it's OK to kick them out and slam the door in their faces or if there's another way to handle it.

If we'd have NIPPED IT IN THE BUD 20-30 years ago, we wouldn't be facing this situation today.

(Although I seriously wonder who'd be making up the beds in hotel rooms?)

If we'd have NIPPED IT IN THE BUD 20-30 years ago, we wouldn't be facing this situation today.

Talk to Reagan and the conservatives. For each illegal alien granted amnesty under Reagan's 1986 amnesty plan, approximately four new illegals have since replaced those who were given amnesty. This is based on the estimate that 2.7 million illegal aliens were legalized in 1986, and the current estimate of illegal aliens in the United States is over 12 million.

(Although I seriously wonder who'd be making up the beds in hotel rooms?)

Having spent many years in the hotel housekeeping biz, I can tell you that there are PLENTY of non-illegals ready and willing to do such work.

So,if it ain't broke,don't fix it...Eh ?


(Although I seriously wonder who'd be making up the beds in hotel rooms?)


The same people that were doing those jobs in the 1950s, 1960s, & 1970s. The high school drop outs, teens working their way through school, and those just not qualified to do more skilled work. There does not seem to be a shortage of people willing to do them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070612/ts_csm/asummerjobs_1;_ylt=Ar6_6DhItzP02wSq6.kfxMVkM3wV

The same people that were doing those jobs in the 1950s, 1960s, & 1970s. The high school drop outs, teens working their way through school, and those just not qualified to do more skilled work. There does not seem to be a shortage of people willing to do them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070612/ts_csm/asummerjobs_1;_ylt=Ar6_6DhItzP02wSq6.kfxMVkM3wV
Good point, Moderate. Not that I believe for a minute there'd be enough high-school kids who'd be willing to do janitorial work... but in the summer months, there might be.

But having lived in Texas all my life, I can assure you that Mexicans have been doing labor-intensive jobs that Anglos didn't want to do for eons. Even back in the 20s and 30s, truckloads of 'wetbacks' were trucked in to hoe and pick cotton. Heck, in the 60's when I lived with an aunt and uncle in West Texas, the town even built barracks for them so they'd have someplace to sleep.

One of the benefits of being 'successful' is being able to hire people to do your dirty work.

One of the benefits of being 'successful' is being able to hire people to do your dirty work.

One of the responsibilities of being "successful" in a lawful society is that you have to obey the law and not hire illegal aliens.

The same people that were doing those jobs in the 1950s, 1960s, & 1970s. The high school drop outs, teens working their way through school, and those just not qualified to do more skilled work. There does not seem to be a shortage of people willing to do them.

You make a good point about young people working through college or those who don't have more/better skills, but it's not just them. Housekeeping work is actually a pretty good gig that many "mature" people like.

Very little stress, no boss looking over your shoulder, the job ends at the end of the day, the pay is reasonable, it keeps you fit and healthy, and since you're basically working alone, you don't have to put up with asshole coworkers. A clean room hardly gets dirty overnight, so you rarely encounter really disgusting things to clean up.

And, if you're working for a major hotel chain, you get all the benefits you could ask for.

Seriously. It's not that bad a gig. :thumbs:

Looks like the GOP's use of race-baiting and fear mongering

ya, the GOP is the party famous for doing this :rolleyes:

Good point, Moderate. Not that I believe for a minute there'd be enough high-school kids who'd be willing to do janitorial work....
Based on who we now see shoveling snow, flipping burgers and mowing lawns it doesn't seem that high school kids do a heck of a lot of anything.

Except that ILLEGALS cost them MONEY... in taxes, services, etc.

Our country has LAWS to all immigrants and they should be followed by ALL. PERIOD. NO EXCEPTION. My spouse did it and so should they. It took us 18 years because his JOB (many don't have that) took him out of country and started time limits over but we did it. Paid the fees. Met the requirements. PAID TAXES FOR 18 YEARS even though he did not have too.

Enter this COUNTRY LEGALLY. Pay taxes. Work hard. AND follow the rules... this is not hard... and you too will be a LEGAL CITIZEN.

As for the others FINE THE EMPLOYERS and DEPORT THE ILLEGALS who IGNORE OUR LAWS. ALL THOSE countries JAIL illegals. SO SHOULD THE US!

Here is the reality -- each illegal that is granted amnesty will be allowed to bring into the country his/her entire family.

Husband or wife, mother and father, grandmother and grandfather, all the kids (natch) and brothers and sisters. That means the amnesty for 12 million illegals turns into a flood of a 100 million new people in the united states, mostly without good-paying jobs, mostly with children that speak no english and surely all of them will have no access to health care.

This will put a strain on the system like never before seen. Elementary (and probably secondary) education will come to a screaching halt due to the lack of trained bi-lingual teachers.

Our hospitals, clinics and doctors offices will be pushed to the limit, resulting in rationing health care.

Women in labor will deliver their babies on surplus army bunks in the hospital hallways due to the shortage of beds.

Even a weak (and normally controlled) possibility of a pandemic or flu will bring our health care system to it's knees -- possibly even leading to armed robberies of our pharmacies.

More than likely, all civilians will be issued a Dept. of Defense type biomtric ID card (no, not stamped on the forehead) that will force compliance with Homeland Security. That will be only the beginning.

Over time, the USA will grant the religious right it's wet dream of uniting church and state and allow using the new ID cards to digitally record in real-time, every citizens attendance and presence at sunday services. For those who don't comply with the homage of the antichrist, they will be seen as providing allegance to Satan -- they will be shot on sight. Zero-tolerance laws will be the norm, not the exception.

And when the oppressed stand up to defend themselves, it will be those very illegals that received amnesety, now members of a special homeland defense force, that will attempt to thwart the dissent. As they fail, the hard lessons will become clear -- that Cinco De Mayo is about more than just drinking Dos Equis. The differece being ... it will be american style victory.

The hidden light of survival, once thought to never again been seen, will reappear. There will be no reason to slip away into the darkiness of the last days.

Yes we will survive, even us in So. Cal.

If Europe keeps getting snowed under,therell be a couple of hundred million Europeans heading your way pretty soon.

If Europe keeps getting snowed under,therell be a couple of hundred million Europeans heading your way pretty soon.
As long as they're from the north (and/or) west, they're more than welcome. :D

On that note, I host de-pussification/reeducation classes every Tuesday @ 7.