Will Al Gore face his inconvenient truths about our stolen elections?
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
18 May 2007

Al Gore has just made his second major contribution to our national political dialog.

His first, "An Inconvenient Truth," has helped make the perils of global warming real to the American mainstream.

Now his "Assault on Reason" is excerpted in Time Magazine. With it he paints a compelling portrait of a democracy being obliterated by money and television.

The content is very much on point. But the former Vice-President must finally face the huge personal responsibility he bears for much of the problem.

First, he was an important party to the complex but catastrophic Telecommunications Act of 1996. This Clinton-era corporate goodie bag enabled a huge spike in the monopolization of the electronic media Gore now decries.

To fight the problem, Gore should now become an active agent in reversing that horrific pro-monopoly give-away. He could fight to re-establish meaningful pluralistic media ownership and public access, and for reviving both the Fairness Doctrine and Equal Time Provision, which once guaranteed balance in media content.

Second, Gore was victim of the theft of the election of 2000, but he also enabled it. In the entire history of the United States, few events have more deeply damaged our democracy than the stolen Florida vote count and warped Electoral College outcome that followed.

The Electoral College was ostensibly designed at the 1787 Constitutional Convention to protect the rights of small states. But it also facilitated the ability of slaveowners to cast 3/5ths of a vote for each of their chattel. There are few more destructive monuments to electoral cynicism. Gore would be a welcome ally in finally ridding ourselves of this historic obscenity. After all, he won by half a million popular votes and "lost" the election.

That Gore was victimized in 2000 was largely his own fault. Amidst the carefully choreographed chaos of the Florida 2000 vote count, the Gore campaign inexplicably asked for a recount only in four counties, rather than statewide. This was a miscalculation of epic proportions. In recent years it's been proven that Gore did win the legitimate Florida statewide vote count, and would have prevailed with a full and honest recount.

The Florida 2000 recount was sabotaged by Governor Jeb Bush and Secretary of State Katherine Harris, as J. Kenneth Blackwell did again in Ohio 2004. In both cases, a very sophisticated GOP apparatus aided by key technicians from partisan voting machine companies, has been bound and determined to steal the presidency at any cost.

Gore's actions on the 2000 recount might be discounted as a stategic failure.

But they were followed by something much much worse. In January, 2001, the Black Caucus of the US House demanded a Congressional dialogue on the seating of the Florida delegation to the Electoral College. This procedure had been established in 1887, in response to the stolen election of 1876. It required the signature of one Representative and one Senator.

Tragically, Gore prevented this from happening. As the presiding officer over the joint session of Congress gathered to ratify the election, Gore repeatedly gaveled down those Representatives demanding a discussion of the theft of Florida's decisive electoral votes. This very ugly, politically catastrophic moment is forever memorialized in Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11.

Staff from the office of the late Sen. Paul Wellstone have said Gore told those Senators inclined to join in that he would not recognize them if they tried. Senator Hillary Clinton told the Free Press Editor that Gore "begged" her not to sign on to such a challenge.

The result: there was no Congressional challenge on the theft of the election of 2000. Ironically, with Dick Cheney presiding over Congress, there was indeed such a session on the stolen election of 2004, facilitated by Sen. Harry Reid. But following the cave-in of 2000, it again lacked the full weight of the Democratic Party and its presidential candidate.

In short, Al Gore and the Democratic Party were complicit in the most demoralizing and anti-democratic events in the recent history of our nation. It is fine for the brilliant and lucid former Vice President to decry the power of money and television in the destruction of our democracy.

But what can tangibly and irrevocably destroy a democracy more thoroughly than the outright theft of elections, especially when it happens without challenge from the opposition?

We welcome the heartfelt insights of Al Gore on the broader issues of modern democracy. But when will he finally come clean on what he and John Kerry did---and didn't do---in allowing the theft of our last two presidential elections?

When will Gore muster the courage of former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker in denouncing the role of voting machine proprietors and techno "insiders" in corrupting the voting process?

Most of all, we need to hear how Al Gore and the Democratic Party plan to guarantee it never happens again. And then we need to see them actually act on it.

--
Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman's three books on the theft of the 2004 election are available at www.freepress.org. Harvey's SOLARTOPIA! OUR GREEN-POWERED EARTH, A.D. 2030, is at www.solartopia.org.

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2007/2600

Stolen elections,

Give me a break! The media did their own re count. The found that Bush won in 2000.


Will Al Gore face his inconvenient truths about our stolen elections?
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
18 May 2007

Al Gore has just made his second major contribution to our national political dialog.

His first, "An Inconvenient Truth," has helped make the perils of global warming real to the American mainstream.

Now his "Assault on Reason" is excerpted in Time Magazine. With it he paints a compelling portrait of a democracy being obliterated by money and television.

The content is very much on point. But the former Vice-President must finally face the huge personal responsibility he bears for much of the problem.

First, he was an important party to the complex but catastrophic Telecommunications Act of 1996. This Clinton-era corporate goodie bag enabled a huge spike in the monopolization of the electronic media Gore now decries.

To fight the problem, Gore should now become an active agent in reversing that horrific pro-monopoly give-away. He could fight to re-establish meaningful pluralistic media ownership and public access, and for reviving both the Fairness Doctrine and Equal Time Provision, which once guaranteed balance in media content.

Second, Gore was victim of the theft of the election of 2000, but he also enabled it. In the entire history of the United States, few events have more deeply damaged our democracy than the stolen Florida vote count and warped Electoral College outcome that followed.

The Electoral College was ostensibly designed at the 1787 Constitutional Convention to protect the rights of small states. But it also facilitated the ability of slaveowners to cast 3/5ths of a vote for each of their chattel. There are few more destructive monuments to electoral cynicism. Gore would be a welcome ally in finally ridding ourselves of this historic obscenity. After all, he won by half a million popular votes and "lost" the election.

That Gore was victimized in 2000 was largely his own fault. Amidst the carefully choreographed chaos of the Florida 2000 vote count, the Gore campaign inexplicably asked for a recount only in four counties, rather than statewide. This was a miscalculation of epic proportions. In recent years it's been proven that Gore did win the legitimate Florida statewide vote count, and would have prevailed with a full and honest recount.

The Florida 2000 recount was sabotaged by Governor Jeb Bush and Secretary of State Katherine Harris, as J. Kenneth Blackwell did again in Ohio 2004. In both cases, a very sophisticated GOP apparatus aided by key technicians from partisan voting machine companies, has been bound and determined to steal the presidency at any cost.

Gore's actions on the 2000 recount might be discounted as a stategic failure.

But they were followed by something much much worse. In January, 2001, the Black Caucus of the US House demanded a Congressional dialogue on the seating of the Florida delegation to the Electoral College. This procedure had been established in 1887, in response to the stolen election of 1876. It required the signature of one Representative and one Senator.

Tragically, Gore prevented this from happening. As the presiding officer over the joint session of Congress gathered to ratify the election, Gore repeatedly gaveled down those Representatives demanding a discussion of the theft of Florida's decisive electoral votes. This very ugly, politically catastrophic moment is forever memorialized in Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11.

Staff from the office of the late Sen. Paul Wellstone have said Gore told those Senators inclined to join in that he would not recognize them if they tried. Senator Hillary Clinton told the Free Press Editor that Gore "begged" her not to sign on to such a challenge.

The result: there was no Congressional challenge on the theft of the election of 2000. Ironically, with Dick Cheney presiding over Congress, there was indeed such a session on the stolen election of 2004, facilitated by Sen. Harry Reid. But following the cave-in of 2000, it again lacked the full weight of the Democratic Party and its presidential candidate.

In short, Al Gore and the Democratic Party were complicit in the most demoralizing and anti-democratic events in the recent history of our nation. It is fine for the brilliant and lucid former Vice President to decry the power of money and television in the destruction of our democracy.

But what can tangibly and irrevocably destroy a democracy more thoroughly than the outright theft of elections, especially when it happens without challenge from the opposition?

We welcome the heartfelt insights of Al Gore on the broader issues of modern democracy. But when will he finally come clean on what he and John Kerry did---and didn't do---in allowing the theft of our last two presidential elections?

When will Gore muster the courage of former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker in denouncing the role of voting machine proprietors and techno "insiders" in corrupting the voting process?

Most of all, we need to hear how Al Gore and the Democratic Party plan to guarantee it never happens again. And then we need to see them actually act on it.

--
Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman's three books on the theft of the 2004 election are available at www.freepress.org. Harvey's SOLARTOPIA! OUR GREEN-POWERED EARTH, A.D. 2030, is at www.solartopia.org.

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2007/2600

In the entire history of the United States, few events have more deeply damaged our democracy than the stolen Florida vote count and warped Electoral College outcome that followed.
Thank you for posting that, NoReply.

In light of the fact that what followed the stolen Florida vote count and the warped Electoral College outcome was the illegitmate pResidency of the absolute worst political 'leader' (I use the term euphemistically) in this nation's +230 year history, I would have to completely agree.

nice to finally see an article showing how complicit the democrats were in the whole thing.

The election of 2000 is what got me into politics in the first place. up until then, ignorance was bliss. I even voted for Ralph nader in 96 because I thought a party called the Green party would be more pro marijuana. Even in that confused, ignorant, wasted state I could see that it was Al Gore who was trying to steal the election. Ever since then I have not trusted liberals (as a party, or a collective conscience, not individuals).

nice to finally see an article showing how complicit the democrats were in the whole thing.

I know, its hard to find an article anywhere that says anything bad about democrats.

Thank you for posting that, NoReply.

In light of the fact that what followed the stolen Florida vote count and the warped Electoral College outcome was the illegitmate pResidency of the absolute worst political 'leader' (I use the term euphemistically) in this nation's +230 year history, I would have to completely agree.
have you completely forgotten about Jimmy Carter?

Al Gore is generally an opportunist.
When running in 2000, polling data showed that he was perceived as being too concentrated on the environment. So he dropped it as a campaign issue.
Now it's important to him.

have you completely forgotten about Jimmy Carter?

No.

When Carter was in office, there was still an immense level of respect and good will toward America from the rest of the world. Under Bush, it has become hated and feared.

When Jimmy Carter left office, he left the country around 950 billion dollars in debt.

The Congressional Budget Office projects that when the Smirking Imbecile leaves office the national debt will exceed thirteen TRILLION dollars.

http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

In terms of being an abysmal failure as president and to the harm done to the nation as a whole, comparing Carter to B*sh is like comparing a jaywalker to a mass murderer.

No.

When Carter was in office, there was still an immense level of respect and good will toward America from the rest of the world. Under Bush, it has become hated and feared.

When Jimmy Carter left office, he left the country around 950 billion dollars in debt.

The Congressional Budget Office projects that when the Smirking Imbecile leaves office the national debt will exceed thirteen TRILLION dollars.

http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

In terms of being an abysmal failure as president and to the harm done to the nation as a whole, comparing Carter to B*sh is like comparing a jaywalker to a mass murderer.
21% inflation, which just happened to be his approval rating too. the economy in the shiter and a national malaise of legendary proprotions...yeah, Carter ruled!:rolleyes:

Second, Gore was victim of the theft of the election of 2000, but he also enabled it. In the entire history of the United States, few events have more deeply damaged our democracy than the stolen Florida vote count and warped Electoral College outcome that followed.

The Electoral College was ostensibly designed at the 1787 Constitutional Convention to protect the rights of small states. But it also facilitated the ability of slaveowners to cast 3/5ths of a vote for each of their chattel. There are few more destructive monuments to electoral cynicism. Gore would be a welcome ally in finally ridding ourselves of this historic obscenity. After all, he won by half a million popular votes and "lost" the election.

That Gore was victimized in 2000 was largely his own fault. Amidst the carefully choreographed chaos of the Florida 2000 vote count, the Gore campaign inexplicably asked for a recount only in four counties, rather than statewide. This was a miscalculation of epic proportions. In recent years it's been proven that Gore did win the legitimate Florida statewide vote count, and would have prevailed with a full and honest recount.

The Florida 2000 recount was sabotaged by Governor Jeb Bush and Secretary of State Katherine Harris, as J. Kenneth Blackwell did again in Ohio 2004. In both cases, a very sophisticated GOP apparatus aided by key technicians from partisan voting machine companies, has been bound and determined to steal the presidency at any cost.


Gore NEVER WON A SINGLE RECOUNT.And Lordy knows he stacked the
deck.He PURPOSEDLY choose Counties like DADE and BROWARD with
heavy traditional Democrat Voting patterns.
Gore also Purposedly DID NOT Want an entire Stateside recount.
Because the Florida panhandle with heavy Republican voter blocks
were maliciously informed BY a Major network,I believe NBC and Tom Brokaw
that Bush had taken Florida.. This was when the polls were still open.
That early false calling of Florida,caused many a panhandle voter to
go back home and NOT cast their ballet.
Gore steadfastly refused to allow Military Overseas Ballets,due to a
postmark technicality.
Gore also fought tooth & nail,with highly sought after democratic
districts to challenge to his favor the entire Chad debate.
I dint read the word ..... C H A D .
It was those punched out Chads or lack thereof Gore saw his big
opening.Gore sought Legal challenge to have Recounts in
mainly highly concentrated Democrat districts where
Election officials had easy oportunity to exploit certain ballots,in favor
of Gore
In other words,if a chad looked like it was slightly punched for Gore,but also another candidate,they could say it was cast for Gore.
Gore was a Whiner,Cry baby and spoiled brat throughout the
entire Florida Recount Fiasco.He never won a single recount.
He even hired on Chicago Election Mob Boss Loader daly to oversee
his legal challenges.Which Gore mounted almost on an hourly basis,
on some days.

Gore also Purposedly DID NOT Want an entire Stateside recount.
Because the Florida panhandle with heavy Republican voter blocks
were maliciously informed BY a Major network,I believe NBC and Tom Brokaw
that Bush had taken Florida.. This was when the polls were still open.
That early false calling of Florida,caused many a panhandle voter to
go back home and NOT cast their ballet.Even if this were true, how the hell could it affect a recount?

You can't recount ballots that were supposedly never cast.

Even if this were true, how the hell could it affect a recount?
You can't recount ballots that were supposedly never cast.It's not a recount issue, but it's an unfair aspect of the election, this one against Republicans, that gets overlooked.

Like closing the polls in Illinois but leaving St. Louis open for an extra two or three hours.
The Republican who lost that election, rather than protest, said that he hoped his opponent, the recently widowed Jean Carnahan, would find some comfort with the result of the election.
That was John Ashcroft.

The Republican who lost that election, rather than protest, said that he hoped his opponent, the recently widowed Jean Carnahan, would find some comfort with the result of the election.
That was John Ashcroft. actually she wasn' tthe candidate, her dead husband was. John Ashcroft lost to a dead guy. And for those calling foul on this particular vote let me say - you can complainbabout the polls being open longer all you want, but the fact remains that either John Ashcroft lost to a dead guy OR was going to have to face a run-off WITH A DEAD GUY. If you can't compete with a dead guy you got serious problems.

If you can't compete with a dead guy you got serious problems.Mel Carnahan was technically on the ticket but Jean Carnahan was chosen by her party to be the candidate and she actively campaign for the seat.
He could have fought his loss but probably felt she had been through a lot already.

the fact is this.. there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that the 2000 election was stolen..

Even if this were true, how the hell could it affect a recount?

You can't recount ballots that were supposedly never cast.

If you mean how would a recount in the panhandle or western
Florida,help any.
The entire purpose of a recount was to net more votes for one party
than another.The Recount was mandated due to election rules.
When an election is so close that it is within I believe 1/2 of 1%
by statute a State automatically has a recount.I'm not sure if this pertains to General Elections,or if the Losing candidate demands a recount.
Gore behaved about as bratty throughout the entire month-long
Recount Fiasco,as I've ever expereienced a major political figure.
BUsh behaves like a true gentelmen,never once acting up and
seldom even making comments about the challenge.Of course he was
ahead and the perceived winner.
I forgot to add in my earlier statement that Gore went on National TV
and explicitly explained that he would honor the Electoral college
if an occassion arose where he got The popular vote but not enough
Electoral.

the fact is this.. there is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that the 2000 election was stolen..

Au contraire.

Greg Palast has provided extensive evidence that it was stolen. Clear and compelling evidence.

All that you have in rebuttal is --"Nuhh unhh!, nuhh unnnnhh!!!"

Au contraire.

Greg Palast has provided extensive evidence that it was stolen. Clear and compelling evidence.

All that you have in rebuttal is --"Nuhh unhh!, nuhh unnnnhh!!!"

That's a stinkin Lie.It took a few years but by 2005 virtually ALL
newspapers,that INSISTED the Election was rigged in favor of Bush
and that The recount,if allowed to continue would have netted Gore
more votes,finally admitted their Bias and certified the Opposite.
That Bush won,fair & Square and would have even netted More
Votes than Gore,in the very Counties Gore cherry-picked to his
Democratic Advantage.
Katherine Harris Certified the Election,and Gore had that Overturned
by a Looney State Supreme court,dominated by some of the Nations most
unabashed Liberal Loons.It Took Ted Olson and his Great plea in front of
The U.S.Supreme court to OverRule that State Supreme Lunacy.

Some liberals think with emotion, and not their brain. The truth just flys right over their heads sometimes.

That's a stinkin Lie.It took a few years but by 2005 virtually ALL
newspapers,that INSISTED the Election was rigged in favor of Bush
and that The recount,if allowed to continue would have netted Gore
more votes,finally admitted their Bias and certified the Opposite.
That Bush won,fair & Square and would have even netted More
Votes than Gore,in the very Counties Gore cherry-picked to his
Democratic Advantage.
Katherine Harris Certified the Election,and Gore had that Overturned
by a Looney State Supreme court,dominated by some of the Nations most
unabashed Liberal Loons.It Took Ted Olson and his Great plea in front of
The U.S.Supreme court to OverRule that State Supreme Lunacy.

Al Gore was recently asked in an interview why he didn't fight harder after the supreme court appointed George W. Bush to the Presidency and his answer was basically that to continue to fight after the Supreme Court decision could have meant violence in the streets.

It is understandable why he might think this too, with incidents like the "Brooks Brothers Riot" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot) down in Florida; a bunch of conservative protestors pounding on the windows of the election offices where they were doing the recounts and essentially acting like an angry mob of assholes threatening violence.

Greg Palast has exposed the fact that the 2000 election and the 2004 elections were both stolen using illegal tactics such caging black voters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caging_list). He has evidence to prove it, but because the U.S. Justice Department has been so corrupted and politicized there is nobody willing to even look at it, let alone bring charges against this administration. The people left in the Justice dept after the Republican partisan purge are all too scared for their jobs or just loyal partisan stooges.

Monica Goodling also testified to Congress last week that Tim Griffin was behind the caging of Black voters in 2004 and that she informed her superiors about it.

Because of this testimony, John Conyers, on Thursday, requested that the BBC provide Greg Palast's evidence (a collection of emails he very ingeniously legally obtained)
to the House Judiciary Committee.

Immediately after they requested the evidence from the BBC, TIM GRIFFIN RESIGNED (http://www.gregpalast.com/index.php) as Attorney General of Arkansas yesterday. A position he was just appointed to after much political wrangling to get the meritorious officer who previously held the position wantonly removed.

"The wanton removal of meritorious officers is an impeachable offense." - James Madison

There is SO much evidence of criminal misbehavior coming out of all the investigations going on in Congress right now that choosing what crimes to go after first is a real problem.

There is no question in the mind of anyone paying attention to what is going on in Congress right now that this is by far the worst Administration in American history. The Bush administration is so corrupt and inept that they make Jimmy Carter look like a genius messiah by comparison.


.

"Threatening violence" is extremely subjective. I remember seeing clips of this on the news and it wasn't anything like a riot.
What is the precedent for this conservative violence which is being used to explain away Gore's lack of resolve.

I never heard of "caging" before this. Apparently it occurs when certain voters don't taking the time to / aren't able to prove that their are a valid registered voter. It doesn't sound illegal to me.

The phrase caging is misleading and overly dhramatic.

"Threatening violence" is extremely subjective. I remember seeing clips of this on the news and it wasn't anything like a riot.

http://images.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/28/miami/story.jpg

That looks like a riot to me. And I have witnessed a few in my time. I was at Cedar Village in Michigan State back in 1990 for the "Cedarfest" riot after the MSU/U of M game, and I was on campus the next year when it happened again. I was in San Jose California, on the campus of UC San Jose in 1992 when the Rodney King decision was announced and a riot erupted literally all around me. Luckily I was in my roomate's car at the time and I hightailed it onto the highway. I heard on the news later that a guy got shot on the very street I was on when it started.

The last time when again at... you guessed it, Michigan State, in 1999 after the basketball finals. That was by far the craziest riot I ever witnessed.


What is the precedent for this conservative violence which is being used to explain away Gore's lack of resolve.

All you need to do is look at the 1990s to see that America is a volatile nation. From the Rodney King riots to Oklahoma City to the Michigan Militia...


I never heard of "caging" before this.

Not suprising. You aren't alone. The corporate media has been conspicuously quiet about the whole thing.

It doesn't sound illegal to me.

Thanks for your analysis but I assure you... it is illegal.


The phrase caging is misleading and overly dhramatic.

Brooks, brooks, brooks, brooks... Don't lower yourself to gmsisko or foolsworth-like childishness. It is beneath you.

Au contraire.

Greg Palast has provided extensive evidence that it was stolen. Clear and compelling evidence.


ok, where is it? i've been digging thru http://www.gregpalast.com for too much of my morning and can find nothing more than rumors and the opinion of a partisan hack.

1. That looks like a riot to me. And I have witnessed a few in my time.
2. Thanks for your analysis but I assure you... it is illegal.
3. Brooks, brooks, brooks, brooks... Don't lower yourself to gmsisko or foolsworth-like childishness. It is beneath you.1. And I've had to work at a few in my time. I would have welcomed this conservative "riot". It would have been like a day off.

2. Which aspect of it is illegal?

3. Voters are sent letters in the mail and they, possibly illegally, allow their registration to lapse. No one touches them, threatens them or harms them.
This is called "caging"? Caging??

If calling that phrase a bit dhramatic makes me childish so be it.

Originally Posted by Freethinker
Au contraire. Greg Palast has provided extensive evidence that it was stolen. Clear and compelling evidence.

ok, where is it? i've been digging thru http://www.gregpalast.com for too much of my morning and can find nothing more than rumors and the opinion of a partisan hack.

http://www.mediachannel.org/views/whistleblower/palast.shtml

""Here's how the president of the United States was elected: In the months leading up to the November balloting, Florida Governor Jeb Bush and his Secretary of State, Katherine Harris, ordered local elections supervisors to purge 64,000 voters from voter lists on the grounds that they were felons who were not entitled to vote in Florida. As it turns out, these voters weren't felons, or at least, only a very few were. ""

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




http://elandslide.org/preview.cfm?term=Stolen%20Election%202000

Several links to Palast's (and numerous other people's) investigations and exposes of the stolen election.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/2002/06/06_Greg_Palast.html

ok, where is it? i've been digging thru http://www.gregpalast.com for too much of my morning and can find nothing more than rumors and the opinion of a partisan hack.

Could YOU please,just for once POST something with direct honesty
and passion.That's why I don't like you.
You have nothing.
Yer humor sucks.
Yer Polemic is even worse.
Yer basically all about Daffodils & Lace !
Yer just here to be popular.
That's Soooooooooooooooooooo GRade School.
Not even Our President gives a whit about what udders tink.
And Utters are a purdy big deal,no matter in Texas or no.

I would have welcomed this conservative "riot".

Tell me, are you a member of a militia group?
I have to question whether you ever saw a riot in person, because I don't think you would be looking forward to it so much if you ever really had.
Regardless, your glib attempts at dismissal aside, that is the answer to the question of why Gore would have believed there would be violence.


2. Which aspect of it is illegal?

Aside from the fact that caging black voters is a violation of the Voting Rights Act, the practice of voter caging by the Republicans is a direct violation of a court order against the Republican party from 1986.


3. Voters are sent letters in the mail and they, possibly illegally, allow their registration to lapse.

What??? Stop right there. You have no idea what you are talking about.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with letting their registration lapse. The voters are sent a certified letter, which they might not sign for any number of reasons. As we now know, many of the black voters caged in Florida and Ohio were not home to sign their certified letters because they were serving over in Iraq. Their votes were never counted.



No one touches them, threatens them or harms them.
This is called "caging"? Caging??

*sigh*

"Caging" is a direct mail term that predates the politicization of it. It used to be used to update commercial mailing lists back in the 50s and 60s.

I have to chuckle at the desperate paranoia that led you to think I invented the term just to be "dhramatic".


If calling that phrase a bit dhramatic makes me childish so be it.

I have news for you Brooks, life is dramatic.
Is this story dramatic?
Absolutely!

Again I have to laugh at the fact that you think that calling this story "dramatic" is at all a put down.

The emails obtained (http://www.gnn.tv/articles/3078/Do_Rove_s_Missing_Emails_Prove_Illegal_Caging) by Greg Palast and subpoenaed by Congress on Thursday are a smoking gun:

NEW YORK—Voting rights attorney Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has called for prison time for the new US Attorney for Arkansas, Timothy Griffin and investigation of Griffin’s former boss, Karl Rove, chief political advisor to President Bush.

“Timothy Griffin,” said Kennedy,”who is the new US attorney in Arkansas, was actually the mastermind behind the voter fraud efforts by the Bush Administration to disenfranchise over a million voters through ‘caging’ techniques – which are illegal.”

[Hear Kennedy on Griffin, Rove and ‘caging lists’ at www.GregPalast.com]

Kennedy based his demand on the revelations by BBC reporter Greg Palast in the new edition of his book, “Armed Madhouse.” On one page of the book, Palast reproduces a copy of a confidential Bush-Cheney campaign email, dated August 26, 2004, in which Griffin directs Republican operatives to use the ‘caging’ lists.

This is one of the emails subpoenaed by Congress but supposedly “lost” by Rove’s office. Palast obtained 500 of these, fifty with ‘caging’ lists attached.

‘Caging’ lists are “absolutely illegal” under the Voting Rights Act, noted Kennedy on his Air America program, Ring of Fire. The 1965 law makes it a felony crime to challenge voters when race is a factor in the targeting. African-American voters comprised the bulk of the 70,000 voters ‘caged’ in a single state, Florida.

Palast wrote in his book, “Here’s how the scheme worked. The Bush campaign mailed out letters,” particularly targeting African-American soldiers sent overseas. When the lettersent to the home addresses of the soldiers came back ‘undeliverable’ because the servicemen were in Baghdad or elsewhere, the Republican Party would, “challenge the voter’s registration and thereby prevent their absentee ballots being counted.”

The Republicans successfully challenged “at least one million” votes of minority voters in the 2004 election.

Is this all Dramatic? You bet your ass it is!

Anyone who sincerely cares about politics and civics know that these are important and dramatic happenings.

The partisan hacks who treat politics like sports are desperately trying to pretend this isn't happening.


.

Lets see calling out Party operatives (regardless of which party) to disrupt a recount of the peoples votes. That is cheating plain and simple. To disrupt a process designed to ensure accurate results of an election is a violation of democracy. It was fucking disgusting and seeing people defend it is even worse.

To disrupt a process designed to ensure accurate results of an election is a violation of democracy. It was fucking disgusting and seeing people defend it is even worse.


True.... it is hard to imagine how anyone can be so brainwashed as to actually defend those callous operative's actions in disrupting the vote process.

It requires a Kool-Aid drinking rightwing zombie of the first order to do something like that. (Not that there is any shortage of them in Amerikkka). Truly pathetic.

That looks like a riot to me. And I have witnessed a few in my time.

:rolleyes:

I have seen a riot where peope were literally ripping each others guts out and dismembering people with their bare hands. I am serious.

I have seen a riot where peope were literally ripping each others guts out and dismembering people with their bare hands. I am serious.

I am sure you think you are.

So what?

Are we supposed to wait until it gets that bad here before acting to stop it or prevent it?
:rolleyes:

http://images.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/28/miami/story.jpg

I've seen more riotous behavior at a 24 hr mall sale, than is demonstrated here.

1. Tell me, are you a member of a militia group?
I have to question whether you ever saw a riot in person, because I don't think you would be looking forward to it so much if you ever really had.
2. What??? Stop right there. You have no idea what you are talking about.
3. I have to chuckle at the desperate paranoia that led you to think I invented the term just to be "dhramatic".
1. Would 25 years as a police officer / detective (some of it in New York City) qualify as someone who may have seen a riot in person. In your opinion?
And to help your comprehension, I never said I'd welcome a riot. I said compared to a real riot, I'd welcome this conservative thing you referred to as a riot.

2. Are you telling me that if this unanswered registered letter is brought to the Board of Elections, they perform no follow-up on it. At that moment that voter is removed from the rolls?
Also, are there any stats on how many cases of voter fraud are uncovered by this. As someone whose vote is often cancelled out by dead people and serial voters in New York, I'd be curious about that.

3. I never said you made it up. The phrase was used in the article.
It's not all about you.

:rolleyes:

I have seen a riot where peope were literally ripping each others guts out and dismembering people with their bare hands. I am serious.
Korea?

http://www.mediachannel.org/views/whistleblower/palast.shtml

""Here's how the president of the United States was elected: In the months leading up to the November balloting, Florida Governor Jeb Bush and his Secretary of State, Katherine Harris, ordered local elections supervisors to purge 64,000 voters from voter lists on the grounds that they were felons who were not entitled to vote in Florida. As it turns out, these voters weren't felons, or at least, only a very few were. ""

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




http://elandslide.org/preview.cfm?term=Stolen%20Election%202000

Several links to Palast's (and numerous other people's) investigations and exposes of the stolen election.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/2002/06/06_Greg_Palast.html
wow! sites that implies that the NY Times is a rightwing rag...there's unbaised web journalism:rolleyes:

the FL recount was stopped by SCOTUS order to comply with the rule of law. deal with it. and even if it hadn't, GW still would have won-deal with that too.

1. Would 25 years as a police officer / detective (some of it in New York City) qualify as someone who may have seen a riot in person. In your opinion?

I don't see how being a cop would make a difference. Especially a detective. They aren't exactly front-line "riot police". You could be a cop for years and never experience a riot.
Have you or have you not ever actually been in a riot? If so, where and when?



I never said I'd welcome a riot.

"To help your comprehension", It is called the "Brooks Brothers Riot". I can only explain your comments by noting your ignorance about what that event was and what it's relevance is in contemporary American politics.


2. Are you telling me that if this unanswered registered letter is brought to the Board of Elections,

I find it funny how many cops I have found myself explaining the law to recently. Anyway, I digress...

Just the fact that the vote was challenged makes it a provisional ballot, many of which are never counted until after the winner is declared.
Provisional Ballots are a travesty and a corruption of our Democracy. Another of the many examples of the horrible damage wrought by the Republican Congress and the Bush Administration.


Also, are there any stats on how many cases of "voter fraud" are uncovered by this.

Not many.
There have only been 20 convictions nationwide in the last seven years. That makes voter fraud only slightly more prevalent than horse-thieving these days.

"voter fraud" is a red herring designed to keep the media from talking about the real and much larger issue of Election Fraud, which takes us back to the issue of vote caging by the Republican party.



As someone whose vote is often cancelled out by dead people and serial voters in New York,

Now you are just being a drama queen... :rolleyes:



3. I never said you made it up.

You insinuated it by using my name in the phrase "Dhramatic".


.

the FL recount was stopped by SCOTUS order to comply with the rule of law.

Actually Skippy, the Federal Supreme Court has no Constitutional Authority over State Elections. The Florida Supreme Court should have been the deciding authority in that, but it would have been up to Al Gore to fight SCOTUS and drag the whole thing out. He chose not to do that.

And by the way, after all the votes were counted, Al Gore won the 2000 election. That is a fact that will never go away and you will be hearing it repeated for decades.

Deal with it.

I find it funny how many cops I have found myself explaining the law to recently. Anyway, I digress...

Police deal with the Penal Law, Criminal Procedure Law, Mental Hygiene Law, Vehicle and Traffic Law among others.
Election law is outside our purview.

You're an engineer. If you were some sort of structural engineer I wouldn't expect you to understand hydraulic engineering. That'd be really stupid and I'd only be making myself look like an idiot.

I don't see how being a cop would make a difference. Especially a detective. They aren't exactly front-line "riot police". You could be a cop for years and never experience a riot.
Have you or have you not ever actually been in a riot? If so, where and when?I wasn't at the famous "Cedarfest" riot. Sounds tough. Hope you weren't hurt.

I've never experienced a riot the way you experienced the Rodney King fringe riot. Namely, getting into my roommate's car and hightailing it out of there.
Shortly after you sped away is when people such as myself would have arrived.
Our experiences at riots are quite different.

But my point is, that Brooks Brothers thing was no riot.
Anyone with riot experience would realize that.

I have been in a riot in Kismaayo Somalia in 1993. Two rival factions were tearing the city apart. They were tearing each other apart with their bare hands. Belgian Light Tanks broke it up with 20mm chaingun fire. not pretty. I am sure that is nothing comapred to a riot on a US college campus after a basketball game though :rolleyes:

Shortly after you sped away is when people such as myself would have arrived.


oh? Is that when the detectives arrive in full riot gear? :rolleyes:

I have to assume from your answer that you have not actually experienced a riot, and your opinion of the Brooks Brothers Riot will have to be taken in that context.

I have been in a riot in Kismaayo Somalia in 1993.

Sounds tough. Hope you weren't hurt.

And by the way, after all the votes were counted, Al Gore won the 2000 election. That is a fact that will never go away and you will be hearing it repeated for decades.

Deal with it.

unfortunately, he didn't win the electoral college vote... which is what you need to win in order to become president...

unfortunately, he didn't win the electoral college vote... which is what you need to win in order to become president...

ROFL! That is because the recounting of the popular vote in Florida was stopped while Bush was only 6,000 votes ahead. That is how he got the electoral votes in Florida. If the recounts in Florida and Ohio were allowed to continue and all the ballots, including provisional ballots, were counted, then Gore would have won, hands down.

On election day 2000 the media announced that Gore had already won the state of Fl. (the announced it before all the polls in the Fl. Panhandel closed)

Many people who live in the Fl. Panhandel did not even vote as a result.

I understand that the majority of the people who live there are conservative.




ROFL! That is because the recounting of the popular vote in Florida was stopped while Bush was only 6,000 votes ahead. That is how he got the electoral votes in Florida. If the recounts in Florida and Ohio were allowed to continue and all the ballots, including provisional ballots, were counted, then Gore would have won, hands down.

Nope, Bush clearly won the 2000 election elections. Of course a bunch of old Jews are going to vote for Pat Buchanan, I mean its not like Pat himself claimed he shouldn't have gotten all those votes...oh wait....he did...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Buchanan#2000_campaign

I understand that the majority of the people who live there are conservative.

Where did you hear that, Fox News? :lolhit:

1. oh? Is that when the detectives arrive in full riot gear? :rolleyes:
2. I have to assume from your answer that you have not actually experienced a riot, and your opinion of the Brooks Brothers Riot will have to be taken in that context.1. Before becoming a detective I was in uniform for about sixteen years.

2. I quoted Randi Rhodes once and you asked for a link. Obviously there isn't one.
I said I've been involved in riots and you say I haven't.
What exactly would convince you of any inconvenient fact?

Bottom line is this - talk to people who have to run into a riot while other people get into their roommate's car and leave.
They'll tell you that the Brooks Brothers thing was absolutely not a riot.

Bottom line is this -

... that you still do not comprehend what the significance of the Brooks Brothers Riot really was.

You think that just because there have been bloodier "riots" (even though you have never been in one), that it somehow dismisses any significance of the Brooks Brothers riot. That betrays a fundamental ignorance on your part that I cannot help you with until you are willing to listen.

Sounds tough. Hope you weren't hurt.

thanks. and I hpe you made it through the drunk college kids celebrating a basketball victory riot safe too.

LOL... this is amazing...

not only does dharma give an interesting theory that Bush "stopped" the vote counting in Florida and Ohio.. but he can automatically assume that had the voting continued, even though it did - but we'll stick with the theory here-, the majority of votes would have been for Gore... wow, I wish I had those psychic powers...

O wait.. you don't have any.. and you don't know.

not only does dharma give an interesting theory that Bush "stopped" the vote counting in Florida and Ohio..

Please show me where I said that "Bush" was behind it...

well then who is... greenpeace?

Nope, Bush clearly won the 2000 election elections. Of course a bunch of old Jews are going to vote for Pat Buchanan, I mean its not like Pat himself claimed he shouldn't have gotten all those votes...oh wait....he did...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Buchanan#2000_campaign
he shouldn't have won the New Hampshire primary against GW's old man either, and Truman shouldn't have beat Dewey.

Actually Skippy, the Federal Supreme Court has no Constitutional Authority over State Elections. The Florida Supreme Court should have been the deciding authority in that, but it would have been up to Al Gore to fight SCOTUS and drag the whole thing out. He chose not to do that.

And by the way, after all the votes were counted, Al Gore won the 2000 election. That is a fact that will never go away and you will be hearing it repeated for decades.

Deal with it.
SCOTUS is the final authority in all legal matters.

and Howard Dean should have beaten Kerry... but that ol' "HUUAAAAWWWW" got him...

kinda sad if you think about it... that one thing unraveled his whole campaign.

SCOTUS is the final authority in all legal matters.
Ehhhhhhh. Not exactly. Only when dealing with cross state matters. Constitutionally states are their own entities and the only thing the Federal government has authority in is issues dealing with cross state actions.

Article 3, Section 2:
The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and SpamSpamSpamSpamSpamSpam, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;-- between a State and Citizens of another State;--between Citizens of different States;--between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

Amendment XI:
The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or SpamSpamSpamSpamSpamSpam, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State.

Note that every case the Supreme court has authority on involves more than one state. That is why every state has their own constitution and judical system. State constitutions legally don't have to be derived from the US constitution, the makeup of each state is not written about in the constitution.

Edit: Why does E-q-i-t-y get changed to spam?

SCOTUS is the final authority in all legal matters.

ROFLMFAO!!!!

You are incorrect, but it is that false perception and general ignorance about our system that led to the acceptance of that myth. That is the result of Conservatives removing civics classes from our public schools. Many Americans are now ignorant about how their own government works.

Article 3, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution specifically lays out what their powers are and then in the 10th Amendment, says that all other powers are reserved for the States and the People.
The Constitution does not give the Federal Supreme Court the power to decide state elections, that power falls to the State Supreme Court.

on edit: Blob beat me to it. :)

That is the result of Conservatives removing civics classes from our public schools.

Where the hell do you come up with this bullshit?

results of the 2000 election:
Bush 5
Gore 4

Party lines.

Bush didn't win the elections, the ballots weren't counted. Bush was chosen by the supreme court.

Even if the stolen election at 2000, the election at 2004 was the judgement.
To-be-President by anyone isn't American Dream for American citizen.

Bush 5
Gore 4

Party lines.

Bush didn't win the elections, the ballots weren't counted. Bush was chosen by the supreme court.


perhaps next time we should include an electron microscope analysis?

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0Je5x.XIWpGWHgBfDSjzbkF/SIG=11qq6vlha/EXP=1181446935/**http%3A//www.jds2.com/images/recount.jpg

With a little luck, there will never be another Republican majority in this country.

Ehhhhhhh. Not exactly. Only when dealing with cross state matters. Constitutionally states are their own entities and the only thing the Federal government has authority in is issues dealing with cross state actions.

Article 3, Section 2:
The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and SpamSpamSpamSpamSpamSpam, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;-- between a State and Citizens of another State;--between Citizens of different States;--between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

Amendment XI:
The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or SpamSpamSpamSpamSpamSpam, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State.

Note that every case the Supreme court has authority on involves more than one state. That is why every state has their own constitution and judical system. State constitutions legally don't have to be derived from the US constitution, the makeup of each state is not written about in the constitution.

Edit: Why does E-q-i-t-y get changed to spam?
care to hazard a guess as to why Federal courts will hear death penalty cases? the exact same reason-federal rights may be getting violated too.

the voters of FL have the right to have their votes counted and the election certified in a timely manner regardless of how badly the Democratics want to cherry pick ballots in the slim hope that it will tip the election.

Even if the stolen election at 2000, the election at 2004 was the judgement.


According to the evidence Greg Palast collected they caged more black voters during the 2004 election than they did in 2000.

I was talking with a conservative friend yesterday and he told me that liberal college profs are teaching terrorism in their classes. Of course, he couldn't explain what he meant with that remark, only that he heard it on Rush, Bill, Ann and Sean so it must be the truth.

BWAhahahahahahah ....... I wonder what if feels like to have someone else do the thinking.