Is the price of gasoline upsetting to anyone else besides myself? Does anyone out there feel as if the oil companies are laughing at us, all the way to the bank?

I am incensed, insulted, and enraged that an oil company can, gleefully and unashamedly, report a 16 Billion dollar profit, 16 BILLION DOLLARS FOLKS, for just one single quarter alone! All the while, with a straight face, bemoaning high costs and high exploration fees.

Why is gasoline so expensive at the pump? Is there any truly good reason?

Can't you just picture a meeting of the CEOs of all the big oil companies in the "Brandy Room" of their exclusive country club?

One turns to the group and says, "We could always say that a flatulent Panda Bear in Western China startled a huge flock of Butterflies. The resulting wind from their wings raised a huge dust cloud. This caused a terrific thunderstorm which swept into the Arabian Desert. This resulted in flash flooding which in turn shut down all production of crude oil. This caused barrel prices to soar, which forced us to raise our prices."

As one the group of CEOs would smile and nod, knowing that this story was a whole lot more possible than any of the other spins they had been spewing out.

Is it possible that it really is OPECs doing? Is this their way of retaliating against the U.S. for sticking with the Bush War in Iraq? Are the oil companies just luckily making huge profits from a bad situation?

Why is everyone in this country so apathetic and complacent about this blatant price gouging at the pump? I can't believe that no one is mounting protests. We should be marching, yelling, and boycotting!

We the working class are being hit the hardest. As usual the poor and middle class of this country will feel the pinch the hardest. Our paychecks won't stretch far enough anymore.

Where is our "vigilant" media in all of this? Where are all of the investigative reports that should be roaring out a protest in the public name? Why have our representatives in Washington not started hearings into the obvious price gouging going on?

Maybe it's time we all stood up and did something for ourselves. We can, with just a little effort, recapture some of the "Power of the People".

Let's make June 7th and 8th NO GAS DAYS ! Talk to your neighbors. Spread the word to your friends and family. Bug your co-workers. Each and every one of us across this nation, June 7th and June 8th, don't go to work. Don't go to the store. Don't run errands of any kind.

Stay home with your family. Have a cookout, watch movies together, play games. Do anything but drive your car. Above all else, do not buy any gasoline at all!

If we all band together, everyone across the nation, on the same two days, we can send a very clear message. A message that shouts, "16 Billion Dollars Profit From My Pocket Is TOO D***ed Much!".

Wake up the Editors of the newspapers. Shake out the Bloggers. Make the talking heads on the TV news take notice. On June 7th and 8th we should declare Boycott Gas Days!

Folks we need to help ourselves. No one will do it for us.



edpermenter@yahoo.com

Unfortunately, such tactics only work if people stop buying gas for a month. Those who don't buy gas on June 7-8 will buy it on June 9-10.

One of the biggest problems with gas prices (beyond the fact that the oil companies are greedy motherfucking bastards) is that we haven't built any new refineries since 1976.

There are between 144 and 149 operating oil refineries in the United States today, the majority concentrated in Texas and California. U.S. production stands at 17 million barrels of oil per day, according to the Department of Energy. U.S. capacity -- the amount of oil the industry infrastructure has the ability to refine -- is running at a near maximum, between 94 percent and 98 percent.

Because no new refineries have been built in the United States since 1976 and because the existing refineries are expected to produce more oil to meet an increasing demand, the industry is stretched to the limit with many factories operating at full throttle. When one has to shut down for any reason, gas prices immediately go up.

Of course, the oil companies would rather set their hair on fire than build a new refinery, because that would reduce their outrageous profits. In addition, the NIMBYs don't want new refineries built for any reason, anywhere (especially anywhere close to them).

The answer is developing alternative fuel/energy sources - wind, solar, hydro, bio, etc. - which would leave the sonofabitchin' oil companies twisting in the wind.

Which is exactly what they deserve.

There was a story of a gas station owner who closed down his station for like 2 days or the weekend. It is not much but it is a beginning. If all the gas stations closed down for a few days and boycotted it would make a statement to the oil companies. However I doubt the upper middle class those who own the gas station will care about the struggling lower and middle middle class.

We have had a fairly long debate on this on another thread about 4 dollar gas.
Someone was defending the oil companies claiming they only got like a cent a gallon yet they end up with billion dollar profits.

I made the statement and I will again. It is not ethical to make millions of dollars off of hard working middle class struggling to keep thier home and suffering because of corperate greed.

with the profits that the oil companies gain, they put nothjing into building new refinaries, eventually they'll have to do something, or build more biodiesel refinaries, and upgrade existing ones. they are just pocketing the money and farting in everyone's face.

agreed and Americans will continue to take it because we will sit here on the internet and complain about it instead of going out in the real world and actually do something about it. Give us enough x-boxes and entertainment and we remain placid.

There was a story of a gas station owner who closed down his station for like 2 days or the weekend. It is not much but it is a beginning. If all the gas stations closed down for a few days and boycotted it would make a statement to the oil companies.

Yeah, it would tell them that they can jack up the prices when all of the stations reopen because people will be desperate for gas.

However I doubt the upper middle class those who own the gas station will care about the struggling lower and middle middle class.

Maybe they care about their employees that would be out two day's pay.

I made the statement and I will again. It is not ethical to make millions of dollars off of hard working middle class struggling to keep thier home and suffering because of corperate greed.

They take this hard working middle class person's money and then they give it back to me in the various mutual funds I have in my IRA and 401(k). It's not like Mr. Exxon keeps it all for himself or something.

Gas prices are certainly high and of course the closer gas prices get to $0/gallon the better but ultmately gas is cheap in the US. Although I've lived in the US for 13 years I cannot forget gas prices in the UK being much higher - probably closer to $8 a gallon today & that to me is the standard. Of course people in the UK have smaller cars but heck - they typically go faster than cars in the US and they get from A to B just the same.

So, $3 - yeah it sucks, but it aint no big deal - gas is still cheaper than bottled water.

Edit - I looked up the price in the UK - $7.12 a gallon last week.

So, $3 - yeah it sucks, but it aint no big deal - gas is still cheaper than bottled water.
True, but when's the last time you bought 12 gallons of Dasani? The price of gas is a bigger concern because it's purchased more than other liquids.

God, we still have people going on about oil companies gouging people.

Why don't you come up with some facts about how they're doing it. Then you might actually have a worthwhile conversation. Otherwise you sound like a bunch of women whining about their lot in life.

Gas prices are certainly high and of course the closer gas prices get to $0/gallon the better but ultmately gas is cheap in the US. Although I've lived in the US for 13 years I cannot forget gas prices in the UK being much higher - probably closer to $8 a gallon today & that to me is the standard. Of course people in the UK have smaller cars but heck - they typically go faster than cars in the US and they get from A to B just the same.

So, $3 - yeah it sucks, but it aint no big deal - gas is still cheaper than bottled water.

Edit - I looked up the price in the UK - $7.12 a gallon last week.

Point(s) taken Drew but ...

isn't it true - a good part of the UK petrol prices are special taxes that finance the health care system and other social networks?

isn't it true - the average commuter in the UK doesn't drive his air-conditioned F-350 from Riverside to Los Angeles, crawling on rte 91 with a round trip commute of 150 miles?

isn't it true - the UK has one of the most effective train systems in the world?

isn't it true - the average bloke is way smarter than the average dude?

Glad I don't have to pay for gas, at least not until I get back to the States. It'll probably be $5 a gallon by then.

God, we still have people going on about oil companies gouging people.

Why don't you come up with some facts about how they're doing it. Then you might actually have a worthwhile conversation. Otherwise you sound like a bunch of women whining about their lot in life.


Oh god not people complaining about getting screwed again. It is so annoying when people are bitching about paying out the ass for gas while the oil companies make billions.
OH the Humanity of it all. How dare the hard working middle class demand decent gas prices to feed thier family affored outragous health care prices.

I mean it is almost as arrogant as minimum wage workers demanding a livable wage. THe spoiled brats.

Oh god not people complaining about getting screwed again. It is so annoying when people are bitching about paying out the ass for gas while the oil companies make billions.
OH the Humanity of it all. How dare the hard working middle class demand decent gas prices to feed thier family affored outragous health care prices.

I mean it is almost as arrogant as minimum wage workers demanding a livable wage. THe spoiled brats.

Why not illustrate how you're getting screwed using some actual facts that support your postion instead of whining about it.:thumbs:

No you know why because you are obviously not the middle class or working poor because and it would simply go right above your head. Your obviously profiting off of it by stock or bonds or something. If you can't see that almost 4 dollars a gallon is hurting the people no amount of math or time explaining it will do any good.

No you know why because you are obviously not the middle class or working poor because and it would simply go right above your head. Your obviously profiting off of it by stock or bonds or something. If you can't see that almost 4 dollars a gallon is hurting the people no amount of math or time explaining it will do any good.

Whining is very unbecoming, in men or women. If you have an argument you should make it. No just rhetorically but with actual facts.
A math arguement would be among the more excellent examples you could provide. I'm all about the facts and numbers are often the best way to demonstrate the facts.
Alternatively you could produce the 10-k of the oil cos and we could look at precisely where the money goes.
The fact that you can't or won't do it says you know you don't have a real arguement, just a make beleive one.

lol
yes and being lazy and bored has nothing to do with not giving you the information that you want. Spare me I took "wealth and Power in America" I know how the system works.

Trying your smoke and mirrors simply does not work.

lol
yes and being lazy and bored has nothing to do with not giving you the information that you want. Spare me I took "wealth and Power in America" I know how the system works.

Trying your smoke and mirrors simply does not work.

The quintessential anti-intellectual post. Unable to even produce the facts, any facts to support her position, she tells that nonetheless she knows how the system works (she just can't prove it). That is indeed rich.

I won't speak about every state, they are all different. But, in California, consumers pay the following taxes on each gal of gas purchased:
Fed tax 18.4 cpg
State tax 18 cpg
Sales tax 6%
County tax 1.25%
City & local tax - varies
UST fee - 1.2 cpg

I'll bet the oil companies dont make that much per gal of gas. Why are you folks not mad at your taxing authority?

Here's a link, look up your state. http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp

I find it funny CNN went to all oil companies and asked for a simple run down of thier cost from refineries to delivery and how much they profit and you know what. EVERY SINGLE ONE DECLINED TO GIVE OUT THAT INFORMATION!!.
I find that highly suspecious.

Record Prices Mean Record Profits for Oil Companies
Consumer Pay More at the Pump, While Firms See Billions in Added ProfitsFrom WNT Aug. 11, 2005
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Print As American consumers increasingly feel the pinch at the pump, oil companies have watched their profits soar.

The newest numbers from the second quarter of this year show Exxon Mobil with a 32 percent increase in earnings over this time last year -- that's more than $7.6 billion.

Editor's Picks
Oil Prices Hover Around $65 Per Barrel
BP saw a profit increase of 38 percent, totaling $6.7 billion, while Conoco Phillips -- the third largest oil company in the country -- recorded a 56 percent increase in profit, more than $3 billion.

"The huge profits are enormous because the public is drastically overpaying what it costs to produce," said Joan Claybrook, president of the consumer advocacy group Public Citizen.

Many of these companies long ago bought oil reserves at prices of $10 to $25 a barrel. With prices peaking near the $67 mark, the profit margin has been enormous.

Even more eye-opening is the profit in Saudi Arabia. Saudis are making an average of $208 million more each day since the increase in crude oil prices first began in December 2003.


Will Profits Lead to Solutions?
But many wonder if any of those increasing profits -- overseas and at home -- are being spent on energy solutions to solve refinery woes and shrinking U.S. oil production.

"The answer is yes, but the impact of those is not immediate," said Mike Rothman, the head of integrated oil research for the International Strategy & Investment Group.

Consumer advocates say Congress is doing nothing to speed up the process, instead passing an energy bill that gives tax breaks to the oil industry.

"They [the oil industry] got $6 billion in the energy bill over 10 years. That's a huge, huge amount of money," said Claybrook. "And you'd think with the price of oil at $65 a barrel, they didn't need any new incentives."

How is that if they are not making so much off each gallon of gas that thier profits up a couple billion dollars when prices of gas go up.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9854784/

Oil profits fuel consumer outrage
Exxon Mobil earned nearly $10 billion in third quarter
FREE VIDEO


Short supply, weather boost oil profits
Oct. 28: Chevron was added to the long list of oil companies that are making eye-popping profits in the wake of the hurricanes. NBC’s Anne Thompson reports.
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By Anne Thompson
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Updated: 4:20 p.m. PT Oct 28, 2005


Anne Thompson
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NEW YORK - In a summer marked by hurricanes and $3 gasoline, the oil companies struck gold.

Friday, Chevron joined the eye-popping profits parade. The nation's No. 2 oil company reported earnings of $3.6 billion. The totals only get bigger: Conoco Phillips made $3.8 billion, BP made $6.5 billion, Royal Dutch Shell made $9 billion and Exxon Mobil raked in a whopping $9.9 billion in just three months.

“Exxon made more than any other company, as a matter of fact,” says Howard Silverblatt, a market SpamSpamSpamSpamSpamSpam analyst with Standard & Poor's. “Their profits by themselves were more than 492 companies made for the entire year within the S&P 500.”

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The profits are fueling outrage from Burbank...

“I just think it's ridiculous,” says one driver. “It costs me anywhere from $65-75 to fill up the vehicle.”

To Chicago...

“It's sad that they're profiting off hurricanes and disasters and things like that,” says another.


RELATED STORY
Washington Post: Big Oil’s PR offensive


The frustration is so great that even top Republicans like Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., are demanding answers from Big Oil.

“We need to make sure that there's no abuse in the current system,” he said. “We need to make sure there's full transparency, and if there's any price gouging, we need to cut it out.”

These companies produce oil and refine gasoline — and sell both. They say they made so much money because an increasing demand for oil worldwide sent the price near $70 a barrel and a shortage of gasoline when the hurricanes damaged refineries.

“Our earnings are a function of how well we manage our business,” says the American Petroleum Institute's chief economist, John Felmy. “We're also producing record amounts of product, we're selling record amounts and we cut our cost dramatically. So that really affects the bottom line as much as anything else.”

Senate Democrats want a temporary windfall profits tax, and some consumer groups say the profits should go to build new refineries. But most drivers just want the prices to come down, so they don't have to shell out wads of money to feed the profits that have America fuming.

“I feel cheated,” says one man. “We're all getting cheated.”

It IS alot...

I have a unique look at this situation.. because i have been unemployed for a good 4-5 months. I have nearly zero dollars in my bank account, which once held over 6 grand (no i didn't blow it all in that allotted time)...

So now, My life has changed. I can't go out like i used to, I tape tv shows during the daytime and watch them at night when i get home from school LOL. The point is... with gas prices so high right now, i HAVE to have 30 bucks to fill up the tank... I live in a suburb, even IF i wanted to ride my bike to school, it'd be a hike.

My folks aren't the wealthiest folks in the world, mom is a physical therapist and dad is a minister. They don't really float me much besides if i desperately need gas money or need to pay bills. So don't go labeling me one of them prep spoiled "mommy bought me a mustang for graduation" douches...

The thing is.. the oil companies ARE recording record profits.. and meanwhile gas is this high. You would think Congress or any branch of gov't wouldn't stand for such raping of funds from the people but wait.. it's oil.. and we know the current administration's ties with oil. It seems the gov't should ORDER the gas companies to build more refineries for the better well-being of it's citizens.

Oh and Gas should go up and down with minimum wage... there should be a formula.. not a 10 year process of upping minimum wage vs. a half/day upping of gas prices.

Wish gas stations would take a stand, but the gas stations make very little off the gas they pump. Each pump makes them about 50,000 each year. They make about a penny off of a full tank. It all goes to the oil companies, taxes, insurance.. all that jazz...

If the government (federal & state) really cared about the people, they would suspend the collection of all excise taxes and just tax the profit realized by the retailer, wholesaler, and oil company.

It IS alot...

I have a unique look at this situation.. because i have been unemployed for a good 4-5 months. I have nearly zero dollars in my bank account, which once held over 6 grand (no i didn't blow it all in that allotted time)...

So now, My life has changed. I can't go out like i used to, I tape tv shows during the daytime and watch them at night when i get home from school LOL. The point is... with gas prices so high right now, i HAVE to have 30 bucks to fill up the tank... I live in a suburb, even IF i wanted to ride my bike to school, it'd be a hike.

My folks aren't the wealthiest folks in the world, mom is a physical therapist and dad is a minister. They don't really float me much besides if i desperately need gas money or need to pay bills. So don't go labeling me one of them prep spoiled "mommy bought me a mustang for graduation" douches...

The thing is.. the oil companies ARE recording record profits.. and meanwhile gas is this high. You would think Congress or any branch of gov't wouldn't stand for such raping of funds from the people but wait.. it's oil.. and we know the current administration's ties with oil. It seems the gov't should ORDER the gas companies to build more refineries for the better well-being of it's citizens.

Oh and Gas should go up and down with minimum wage... there should be a formula.. not a 10 year process of upping minimum wage vs. a half/day upping of gas prices.

Wish gas stations would take a stand, but the gas stations make very little off the gas they pump. Each pump makes them about 50,000 each year. They make about a penny off of a full tank. It all goes to the oil companies, taxes, insurance.. all that jazz...

agreed
are you in high school or college? not trying to be insulting I do not know your age.
It doesn't take a genius to see that when gas prices go up and profits go up there is a corralation.

I guess I don't really know what it is like to be warrior1972, but if it is even 1/10th as bad as reading her posts--then I am sure it is awful.

It is shocking to me that I can't even agree with you on a thread about gas prices being too high.

It IS alot...

You would think Congress or any branch of gov't wouldn't stand for such raping of funds from the people but wait.. it's oil.. and we know the current administration's ties with oil.


Democrat controlled congress. If they really wanted to make a fuss, or any noise at all on this topic, they could.

STFU:upyours:

Displaying that clever wit for which she is known hole warrior responds with more penetrating insight.

:woohoo:

agreed
are you in high school or college? not trying to be insulting I do not know your age.
It doesn't take a genius to see that when gas prices go up and profits go up there is a corralation.

First off.. i'm in college.. and doin well

Second... I might want to rescind some of what i said... There's a perfectly good reason why the gas prices are as high as they are.

In order to get why our gas prices are so high.. we have to look at OPEC. Back in the 90's, when gas ran for $10 a barrel, there was a war going on in OPEC... they weren't on each other's side, and they made far more quantity than the supply demanded. THAT is why we had such low gas prices... it wasn't Mr. Clinton's magic touch. Meanwhile, OPEC was getting hit HARD, losing all their money, and didn't see any improvements until 2000. Now that OPEC is a unified body, they are coordinating and not making too much quantity, thus meeting the supply curve at equilibrium. To be honest, we should have been at high prices the whole time, we just got used to it. You want to know about high gas prices, talk to the Brits.

OPEC, while recording record profits, is probably just now seeing major profits. They had been shit on so bad in the 90's that yea... it's not a bunch of billionaire suits fucking with you... it's captialism, a free market society.

So now we have the issue with Refineries... Refineries cost about a trillion dollars to make and maintain, and take a LONG time to build.. and with OPEC just now seeing major gross profit, i doubt that looks like a good option. Also, who says we won't turn to an alternative fuel source? In order to see a profit out of the new refinery, it would have to be around for about 10 years.

Just giving you some information on WHY gas prices are so "high".. it's not that they are "high".. it's just that they WERE "low"...

I agree that gas prices is a perspective that we have enjoyed cheap gas for so long that paying more seems high. I just feel that he middle class is getting squeezed. I feel thier pain even though I am no longer amoung them. It is funny I told hubby about obama and socialized heath insurance and said obama wanted to tax the wealthy and he looked at me and said "that means us" I didn't associate upper middle class as wealthy since by the time we save up for retirement we have 3,000 extra a year to spend for ourselves. I think about it and see that many people cannot afford to save for retirement or have full family health coverage. :(
it makes me so very sad....

btw i got a look at how much he paid in taxes last year pays 14,500 in taxes last year.

I won't speak about every state, they are all different. But, in California, consumers pay the following taxes on each gal of gas purchased:
Fed tax 18.4 cpg
State tax 18 cpg
Sales tax 6%
County tax 1.25%
City & local tax - varies
UST fee - 1.2 cpg

I'll bet the oil companies dont make that much per gal of gas. Why are you folks not mad at your taxing authority?

Here's a link, look up your state. http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp




billions of dollars in profits. that's why.

the taxes are used for the common good. not to line some fat ass rich guys pockets.

did you read my post ivan?

Record Prices Mean Record Profits for Oil Companies
Consumer Pay More at the Pump, While Firms See Billions in Added ProfitsFrom WNT Aug. 11, 2005

blah, blah, blah

How is that if they are not making so much off each gallon of gas that thier profits up a couple billion dollars when prices of gas go up.

you are telling us what we already know, that in 2005 they made a boatload of money, primarily because the price of oil just about doubled. What's happend since?

Since you're too lazy to investigate anything and introduce yourself to any facts i'll do you a favour.

Based on an avg realized price of oil in '05 of $54.62 and a realized price of $65.42 in '06 and expected realized prices in '07 and '08, of $60 and $62,

P&L (adjusted) 2005A 2006A 2007E 2008E '09E

E&P net income 22,729 26,230 23,880 23,751 23,133 R&M net income 7,882 8,454 8,156 6,677 5,022 4,362 - Chemicals net income 3,403 4,382 4,430 3,696 2,044 2,044 -
Other operating profit (1) -154 844 -22 -229 -288 -339 0
Net interest -496 -654 -372 -340 -340
Net income (pre-excep) 33,860 39,500 36,443 33,895 29,911

2005A 2006A '07E '08E
Net income (group, pre-excep) 33,860 39,500 36,443 33,895
'09E
29,911

So here's a quick business lesson. Prices increased in '06 by 20% and lo and behold their net income increase by...... wait for it ........ 20%! Expected realized prices in '07 are expected to drop 5% and their net income is expected to,,,,,,....... wait for it........... drop by 10%. Realized prices are expected to rise by 3% in '08 and their net income is expected to......wait for it one more time..........drop by 10%.

Being the rocket scientist you are want to venture a guess as to why their profits are expected to drop in '07, '08, and '09? If you know anything about the industry (which is a stretch i know) you should be able to figure that one out. Regale us once more with your insight into how the oilcos are gouging u.

The above numbers by the way are from their 10K for the two years and are the forecast numbers from one of the leading investment banks on the street.

billions of dollars in profits. that's why.

the taxes are used for the common good. not to line some fat ass rich guys pockets.


You had better take a real long close look at the Washington politicians. Not one of them leaves office with less than they entered with. I doubt there are more than three, maybe four, honest ones in elected office.

Besides what they can "earmark" for their district, and then skim off the projects (see Boston's Big Dig, Alaskan Bridge to no where, Houston's Train to No Where), their living expenses, re-election fund, etc, is all dependent upon how much, of the tax dollar, they can deliver. It has nothing to do with the "common good".

The above numbers by the way are from their 10K for the two years and are the forecast numbers from one of the leading investment banks on the street.Don't they teach you how to make a readable graph on 'the street'?

The oil companies don't make a lot of money per gallon of gas. The government makes much, much more.
The reason for the insane profits is the insane consumption.
The reason for the insane consumption is that the cost of fuel vs. the income of the consumer is not unreasonable. At various times it has been worse.



PS - What exactly is the working class?

PS - What exactly is the working class?

Democrats, apparently.

The oil companies don't make a lot of money per gallon of gas.

Thats alot of profit for not making a lot of money per gallon.

The government makes much, much more.

Nobody's saying they don't suck too.

The reason for the insane profits is the insane consumption.

The consumption is only increasing in places like China and India. No doubt that price is based, at least somewhat by demand. But ordinarily there are other options available to the consumer. People can say carpool, which is fine IF you work close to people you live near. If you don't, carpooling is not really an option. Public transporation is another option, but have you ridden a train, subway, or bus lately? Not only are they just as ecologically unfriendly as my car, but they are dirty, unreliable, and not as cost effective as everyone makes them out to be.

The reason for the insane consumption is that the cost of fuel vs. the income of the consumer is not unreasonable.

The reason for the insane consumption is that we all have to get to work to make more money to buy more gas to go back to work. It is rapidly GETTING more unreasonable. When is it going to be unreasonable for YOU?

At various times it has been worse.

That was then and I'm not living then, I'm living now.

PS - What exactly is the working class?

Working class is a term used both in academic sociology as well as in ordinary conversation. In common with other terms relevant to social class, it is defined and used in many different ways depending on context and speaker, and incorporates references to education, occupation, culture, and income. When used in a non-academic situation, it typically refers to a section of society dependent on physical labor, especially when remunerated with an hourly wage.

From Wikipedia

:flowers:

the reason that gas costs so much is because, well, it can. it could go up another two dollars a gallon and people will still be buying it. we've become so dependent on our vehicles that despite ridiculous prices for gasoline, we'll keep right on driving. is it completely our faults? of course not. as someone stated earlier, taking public transportation these days isn't much of an alternative. besides the large amount of fuel it takes to run these things, factor in the effects they have on the environment, not to mention putting yourself in harms way (you may think that's unfair to say, but rapes/robberies/injuries are a REAL possibility when you increase your exposure to the masses...lol!). most people, if given a choice, would rather not chance it. can you blame them?

You would think Congress or any branch of gov't wouldn't stand for such raping of funds from the people but wait.. it's oil.. and we know the current administration's ties with oil.

Democrat controlled congress.

.....""Democrat controlled congress""....... ?!?!?!?

I don't know if that assertion (that the current high gas prices are due to inaction by a Democrat controlled Congress) is the stupidest thing I have heard on these boards, but it is certainly in the running.

I believe that even the most partisan rightwinger on the planet would --if they were to be honest about it-- be forced to admit that the high gas prices would be no different no matter which political party happened to be in 'control of Congress'.

I believe that even the most partisan rightwinger on the planet would --if they were to be honest about it-- be forced to admit that the high gas prices would be no different no matter which political party happened to be in 'control of Congress'.

You're right again. The gas prices were beginning to rise while the republicans were still in control of congress. This didn't start as soon as the democrats took control. Let's try to look past party differences for a change shall we? Blaming one party or the other is exactly why these things never get fixed. Concentrate on the problem, not who's fault it is.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/737/125970zw4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1. Thats alot of profit for not making a lot of money per gallon.
2. The consumption is only increasing in places like China and India.
3. The reason for the insane consumption is that we all have to get to work to make more money to buy more gas to go back to work.
4. That was then and I'm not living then, I'm living now.
5. ....it typically refers to a section of society dependent on physical labor, especially when remunerated with an hourly wage.

1. Volume, volume, volume.

2. I was referring to the fact that no matter how high the prices are here, gasoline consumption does not decrease. Have you seen smaller cars on the road in the last two years?

3. If we were reluctantly purchasing high priced gasoline to go to work, then discretionary driving would be decreasing and consumption would be going down greatly.
It isn't.

4. And ......

5. The title of this thread is such left-speak. Everyone is affected by higher gas prices.
It reminds me of the joke about the New York Times headline:
World to End Tomorrow. Women and Minorities Hardest Hit.

....we've become so dependent on our vehicles that despite ridiculous prices for gasoline, we'll keep right on driving.
There's a fine line between true dependence and merely finding it difficult to change a certain lifestyle.

I believe that even the most partisan rightwinger on the planet would --if they were to be honest about it-- be forced to admit that the high gas prices would be no different no matter which political party happened to be in 'control of Congress'.

Don't hear much if any complaining from the right about gas prices, i do hear a lot of lefties and democrats complaining about it. Now if we could only get the left to recognize it and then agree on it.

Don't hear much if any complaining from the right about gas prices, i do hear a lot of lefties and democrats complaining about it. Now if we could only get the left to recognize it and then agree on it.If you own a lot of stock in oil companies, high gas prices are a boon to you. If you have investments in 401k's or mutual funds that purchase oil stocks you most likely are close to breaking even. If you are poor or lower-middle class all you get is a good solid kick in the pants.

Don't hear much if any complaining from the right about gas prices, i do hear a lot of lefties and democrats complaining about it. Now if we could only get the left to recognize it and then agree on it.

At least the lefties are sticking to the topic of the thread, and not just using it as an opportunity to take a jab at the "righties". I understand you don't like liberals and "lefties" waldo, but how much do you enjoy paying more for gas?

If you are poor or lower-middle class all you get is a good solid kick in the pants.At the risk of sounding callous, don't they always?

At least the lefties are sticking to the topic of the thread, and not just using it as an opportunity to take a jab at the "righties". I understand you don't like liberals and "lefties" waldo, but how much do you enjoy paying more for gas?

lefties sticking to the topic? Like this post?
I believe that even the most partisan rightwinger on the planet would --if they were to be honest about it-- be forced to admit that the high gas prices would be no different no matter which political party happened to be in 'control of Congress'.
:rolleyes:

lefties sticking to the topic? Like this post?
:rolleyes:

No, like this one:

"I understand you don't like liberals and "lefties" waldo, but how much do you enjoy paying more for gas?"

At the risk of sounding callous, don't they always?Of course they do.

I was merely trying to explain to waldo why it seems mostly Democrats complain about high gas prices.

Don't hear much if any complaining from the right about gas prices
Which is completely UNsurprising.

The people in question are -apparently- too stupid to realize there is something which they should be alarmed about or resentful about.

They are -collectively- a huge conglomeration of dimwitted and complacent dupes who have been thoroughly indoctrinated to support virtually ALL policies and actions of their ConservaFascist masters; including those which are decidedly against their own best interests.

Of course they do.

I was merely trying to explain to waldo why it seems mostly Democrats complain about high gas prices.

The better explanation is that those complaining aren't well informed on the subject. Witness warrior's ongoing whine about the oilcos gouging everyman.

I don't see what the big stink is about gas prices.
I have company credit cards and havent paid for gas in 15 years.
This whole ordeal doesnt bother me nor affect me in the least.
And if it makes a difference, I'm not a leftie or a Democracker.

I don't see what the big stink is about gas prices.
I have company credit cards and havent paid for gas in 15 years.
This whole ordeal doesnt bother me nor affect me in the least.
And if it makes a difference, I'm not a leftie or a Democracker.

You aren't mush a human either,if Gas Prices don't bug ya.
It juts ain't Human I tells ya.
Fur one to GOad to a pump and not sicken at the cost of some smelly
oily stuff that only use is to create combustion.
I mean,if I could only bottle me beer farts I mite bee in the same
League as you,Human-Wise.
Like I say...It ain't natural OR Human to NOT think Gas is a
costly proposition to NOT make.
Did that come outright ?

Did that come outright ?

No.

At least the lefties are sticking to the topic of the thread, and not just using it as an opportunity to take a jab at the "righties". I understand you don't like liberals and "lefties" waldo, but how much do you enjoy paying more for gas?

Are You a Liberal or Lefty ? Just askin,mind ya.
I knows I ain't.

No.

I's used to spell "come" diffurnt.
As many of me fans,know full well.
Butt,since me ban is still fresh,I thought,why blow it.

Are You a Liberal or Lefty ? Just askin,mind ya.
I knows I ain't.

Most people would probably put me on the left, but I try to decide things based on the issues. For example, I'm generally against the idea of gun control, and I find "hate crimes" legislation to be redundant. That might make me less than a screaming liberal, but on other issues like gay marriage, abortion, health care, and others, I'm definitely a liberal.

Most people would probably put me on the left, but I try to decide things based on the issues. For example, I'm generally against the idea of gun control, and I find "hate crimes" legislation to be redundant. That might make me less than a screaming liberal, but on other issues like gay marriage, abortion, health care, and others, I'm definitely a liberal.

Ok,Danny.In yer expert opinion,Is Hillary a Big Lb or a Pure Socialist.?
Because she DID vote for the War,therfore she's NO Dove.
She did help enable Bill in his many problems with female charging
harrasment.Hillary went so far as to authorize a wiretapping expert
to listen in on some of those Females.
Husband Bill,ran as a Moderate and was History's most devout
Populist.
I say Hillary is a Pure Socialist.That's why she is gradually breaking
in the public to the notion of Collective Governing Vs. The Individual.
It takes a Village,and a whole lot more,in other words.

billions of dollars in profits. that's why.

the taxes are used for the common good. not to line some fat ass rich guys pockets.


Hey, Ivan, here's some more of that "common good".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070603/ap_on_go_co/congress_pet_projects_5;_ylt=Ast3OqkApOhJ7TvOM9PmZ sdkM3wV

Most people would probably put me on the left, but I try to decide things based on the issues. For example, I'm generally against the idea of gun control, and I find "hate crimes" legislation to be redundant. That might make me less than a screaming liberal, but on other issues like gay marriage, abortion, health care, and others, I'm definitely a liberal.
Burn the lefty!!!


j/k..amongst the pagans you're one of the less vile.

Hey, Ivan, here's some more of that "common good".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070603/ap_on_go_co/congress_pet_projects_5;_ylt=Ast3OqkApOhJ7TvOM9PmZ sdkM3wV

"Research contracts"
"Hospitals"
"Energy"
"Education"

Yup, sure looks like the Common Good to me.

I have no problem whatsoever with representatives putting in requests for funding for worthwhile projects.

What I DO have a problem with is the fact that because corporations and special interests have so much more influense over our representatives, that they are oftentimes dictating what those projects should be. Lets be honest, they write our laws now.

There is only one way to fix that... Public Financing of Elections.

"Research contracts"
"Hospitals"
"Energy"
"Education"

Yup, sure looks like the Common Good to me.

I have no problem whatsoever with representatives putting in requests for funding for worthwhile projects.

What I DO have a problem with is the fact that because corporations and special interests have so much more influense over our representatives, that they are oftentimes dictating what those projects should be. Lets be honest, they write our laws now.

There is only one way to fix that... Public Financing of Elections.

I have a problem with anything that is done in a manner that precludes debate on the merits of the project. A community with a population of 5,000 does not need a 50 million dollar hospital, or a million dollar school for 30 students, or an airstrip capable of landing corporate jets, when all they handle is piper cubs. But thats what MOST earmarks provide, or something very similar.
This is not about how elections are financed, changing to public financing will not eliminate these "pork" projects, elimination of earmarks will will cut pork by 75%. At least until congressmen find another way to slip it into the budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waldo
Don't hear much if any complaining from the right about gas prices


Which is completely UNsurprising.

The people in question are -apparently- too stupid to realize there is something which they should be alarmed about or resentful about.

They are -collectively- a huge conglomeration of dimwitted and complacent dupes who have been thoroughly indoctrinated to support virtually ALL policies and actions of their ConservaFascist masters; including those which are decidedly against their own best interests.

Oh gawd I loooooooooove this rebuttal!

A community with a population of 5,000 does not need a 50 million dollar hospital

Who are you to make that decision for that community? If that were the standard then nothing would ever get done because if you stop them from getting their hospital they will do everything they can to stop you from getting everything you want.


or a million dollar school for 30 students

30 students in one class for one year maybe. How many over the lifetime of the school? A hell of a lot more than 30, that is for sure.


But thats what MOST earmarks provide, or something very similar.

What is that? Projects that you object to?

Who are you to make that decision for that community? If that were the standard then nothing would ever get done because if you stop them from getting their hospital they will do everything they can to stop you from getting everything you want.




30 students in one class for one year maybe. How many over the lifetime of the school? A hell of a lot more than 30, that is for sure.




What is that? Projects that you object to?


Once again; I am against any thing that precludes the honest, open, debate on a project's worth. If it must be slipped into the budget, without the possibility of debate, chances are it should not be there at all.

The only reason you have even responded to this is because the article happened to mention that it is the democrats who are doing this. I believe both parties are guilty, both are wrong, and the practice should be stopped, not just reduced. Now you SPIN it anyway you want.

I also believe that if the federal government has enough money to send BACK to the States they have collected far to much to begin with.

Is it possible that it really is OPECs doing? Is this their way of retaliating against the U.S. for sticking with the Bush War in Iraq? Are the oil companies just luckily making huge profits from a bad situation?

There would probably be no OPEC if not for the big oil companies that trade with them. They are the source of OPEC's profits.
I feel that the two entities work together purely for a mutual profit. No thoughts are given to the end-users other than "what will the traffic bear?"

Once again; I am against any thing that precludes the honest, open, debate on a project's worth.

I do not see a need to debate about every single line in every bill that goes before congress. The Bill in it's entirity gets a debate and if a particular spending point is a problem, Reps get their chance to bring that up in debate.

That is way too much unnecessary debate that would only cause gridlock and nothing would get done.


The only reason you have even responded to this is because the article happened to mention that it is the democrats who are doing this.

Nope, I have not read the article. I responded because I saw your post.

Nope, I have not read the article. I responded because I saw your post.


You can't even lie worth a damn. If you didn't read the article, you had no way of knowing what I was even posting about. At least try to keep your falsehoods believable.

I have a problem with anything that is done in a manner that precludes debate on the merits of the project. A community with a population of 5,000 does not need a 50 million dollar hospital, or a million dollar school for 30 students, or an airstrip capable of landing corporate jets, when all they handle is piper cubs. But thats what MOST earmarks provide, or something very similar.
This is not about how elections are financed, changing to public financing will not eliminate these "pork" projects, elimination of earmarks will will cut pork by 75%. At least until congressmen find another way to slip it into the budget.

Oh ! Just Albert Schweitzer in sheep's clothing,eh !
Ever heard of Liberal Christianity.?
Following the same line as that of Leo Tolstoy.
Some in his day compared Albert's philosophy to that of
Francis of Assisi.
Mainly a firm conviction for respect of life is the highest principle.
There are NO such Great people or Philosophies around Today.
Virtually everywhere there are - Sheep in Wolf's clothing -.
Y'know like many herein.All Bluster and menace,but really harmless
as a Tootsie Pop.I Hope.
And Wits dat,I just as soon bark at the moon,till the cows
come home.

You can't even lie worth a damn. If you didn't read the article, you had no way of knowing what I was even posting about. At least try to keep your falsehoods believable.

My apologies, I misunderstood you. I had a brain fart. I thought you meant the article at the start of the thread. I did read the article you posted but your claim makes no sense to me.

I never, ever complained about "pork" when the Republican congress was in power.

Every party operates that way. It is how our government operates.
It is an operational issue, not a partisan issue.

My apologies, I misunderstood you. I had a brain fart. I thought you meant the article at the start of the thread. I did read the article you posted but your claim makes no sense to me.

I never, ever complained about "pork" when the Republican congress was in power.

Every party operates that way. It is how our government operates.
It is an operational issue, not a partisan issue.

I don't recall saying you had complained about pork. In fact you are defending the inclusion of pork, through earmarks. I'm the one against it, regardless of which party is including it. As much as I hate these pork projects, if they get them included through debate, after proper consideration, then so be it. But to do so in such an underhanded way, as outlined in the last article, just makes me resent politicians all the more.

I don't recall saying you had complained about pork. In fact you are defending the inclusion of pork, through earmarks. I'm the one against it, regardless of which party is including it. As much as I hate these pork projects, if they get them included through debate, after proper consideration, then so be it. But to do so in such an underhanded way, as outlined in the last article, just makes me resent politicians all the more.

In my opinion your way would be overly-bureaucratic and would grind the government to a halt. Very little would get done, but you probably see that as a positive since you support the idea, don't you?

Who are you to make that decision for that community?

If the community is using their own money - none. If they're using federal tax money then I do. Which isn't to say I'm opposed to using my federal taxes to pay for something like an interstate in Idaho, because overall that does serve to benefit the entire country.

If the community is using their own money - none. If they're using federal tax money then I do. Which isn't to say I'm opposed to using my federal taxes to pay for something like an interstate in Idaho, because overall that does serve to benefit the entire country.
that depends on what goes on that interstate...you like cheap potatoes, don't you?

If the community is using their own money - none. If they're using federal tax money then I do. Which isn't to say I'm opposed to using my federal taxes to pay for something like an interstate in Idaho, because overall that does serve to benefit the entire country.

I agree with you, but pragmatically speaking if we allowed every item of spending to be up for debate then the anti-government conservatives would bring the government grinding to a halt by crying foul for every dime spent on anyone except their own contributors and supporters.
It might work better if our government were not so corrupted and actually still represented the people.

Are you people idiots?

The gas prices right now are no "conspiracy"... it's supply curve meeting demand curve reaching equilibrium... Gas prices aren't "going up".. they are just finally where they should have been all along. Talk about putting your head in the sand...

Gas prices aren't "going up".. they are just finally where they should have been all along.

ROFL!!! That is a pretty insane theory you have to excuse price gouging.

ROFL!!! That is a pretty insane theory you have to excuse price gouging.
if oil companies that own their wells (or rights to such) and supply chain didn't charge market rate, you would be the first to scream about them running the the smaller companies out of business.

Talk about greedy corporations, entities, what ever, take a good look at banks, and the fees and charges they levy on customers.

Talk about greedy corporations, entities, what ever, take a good look at banks, and the fees and charges they levy on customers.
the only way to get rich from a bank is to own it.

the only way to get rich from a bank is to own it.

Do you think they should be non-profit?

Banks are companies, get over it or keep your money in a shoebox.

Do you think they should be non-profit?

Banks are companies, get over it or keep your money in a shoebox.
naw...i just buy stock in mine.:D

Are you people idiots?

The gas prices right now are no "conspiracy"... it's supply curve meeting demand curve reaching equilibrium... Gas prices aren't "going up".. they are just finally where they should have been all along. Talk about putting your head in the sand...

There's plenty of oil.It's just refining capacity has a 3 week window
and an 80% capacity at best.Demand is solely responsible for
prices.

there IS plenty of oil.. we just aren't getting the major discount we got when Opec was at war with each other. They refined ALOT more oil then, and now that they are a unified body, they don't make as much... hence the raise in prices.

oil in america is refined in america. not the opec ruled countries.

the oil compaines have enough profits to keeps plenty of refineries going, build more, and improve more of them. your theory doesn't wash.

billions of profits yearly is proof. they pocket it and run.

oh they do Ivan? Well in a capitalist, free-market society, they have the RIGHT to pocket what they earn... and go ahead and ignore the fact that oil companies got raped in the 90's... and are just now seeing major profits.

And i already explained to you why they don't build more refineries, it's pretty simple logic. Obviously you just ignore that though because it doesn't suit your agenda.. typical.

The oil industry was profitable during the 90s to the tune of Billions.

If you call that "getting raped" than you are even more out of touch with reality than I previously thought.

The oil industry was profitable during the 90s to the tune of Billions.

If you call that "getting raped" than you are even more out of touch with reality than I previously thought.
a billion dollar profit for a trillion dollars in sales is only a 1% profit margin.

right, then it is apparently ok to pocket billions of dollars in profit and cry poverty. how about at least UPDATE the present refinaries? or is it illegal?

oil in america is refined in america. not the opec ruled countries.

the oil compaines have enough profits to keeps plenty of refineries going, build more, and improve more of them. your theory doesn't wash.

billions of profits yearly is proof. they pocket it and run.

The ability to build refineries is limited by where they can be built. Ecological rules and all that. In addition no one wants to have one built near them because the joints stink. Profitability on refineries is very cyclical. Generating enough return to justify the massive cost and five year time frame for building one of these things make it a risky proposition. Companies will only invest in such if they can see a high probability of getting an appropriate return on the investment.

right, then it is apparently ok to pocket billions of dollars in profit and cry poverty. how about at least UPDATE the present refinaries? or is it illegal?

They 'update' them all the time. There is indeed a necessary, regular maintenance schedule.

right, then it is apparently ok to pocket billions of dollars in profit and cry poverty.

Who's "pocketing" the money? The money goes to shareholders, not to some mysterious Mr. Exxon who hoards it all for himself.

same thing

Can we get a clarification on what you are bitching about Ivan? Now that we have established that "Mr. Exxon" isn't hoarding it all...

Now that we have established that "Mr. Exxon" isn't hoarding it all...

Of course not, there are other oil companies beside Exxon. :rolleyes:

a billion dollar profit for a trillion dollars in sales is only a 1% profit margin.

Actually, Exxon made $60 Billion in 2005 alone.

To you and I.. that's alot of money.. to a corporation.. that's not that much, especially one that deals with billions of dollars.

I mean, don't let me say anything to hinder your "Oil Companies are wiping their asses with silk toilet paper on a gold toilet seat, while they laugh at the homeless" point of view.

Oil Companies are big business, they DO make a lot of money... to a socialist or communist, you'd probably want them to share that with everyone else. However, in a free market, capitalist society... they don't have to. And also, them having more money makes them more eager to expand and create jobs.

I don't think Oil companies are totally innocent, but they aren't the big bad wolf like you claim... you ignore history and just blatantly and mindlessly rant about the numbers you see now.. but you remain oblivious to why and how they got that way. Why don't you try thinking outside the box? Don't you extreme lefties like to call yourselves "freethinkers"?... Well.. at least the label is there, i don't think it fits the foot.

I don't think Oil companies are totally innocent, blah, blah, blah...

Then we agree on something. :rolleyes: