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Evil Homer
05-24-2007, 08:00 PM
Many people argue the incompatibility of faith and reason, as if somehow these two concepts are conflicting with each other. Philosophers and saints alike have come to the realization for the necessity of both. The key is balance. To live harmoniously, there must be an adequate synthesis of both the senses and the abstract.

Time and again in the history of philosophy, truth was struck in the synthesis of extremes. heraclitus believed that everything was constantly flowing, as evidenced by our senses. This is true because nothing is permanant, but also false because even though form may change, substance does not. A horse may live and die, but it is still made up of exactly the same things as the horses before it and the horses after it. Parmenides believed the exact opposite; he believed that the senses were incorrect, and reason told him that everything was in a forever unchanging state. Then, along comes Democritus, harmonizing the two views into the theory of the atom, stating that the basic substance of everything never changed, but merely appeared in different forms.

Another comparison is between Plato and Aristotle. Plato held that the percieved world is merely a shadow world, and all we see are just physical imitations of ideas. Plato held that we are all subconsiously aware of these ideas, and the things we see simply remind us of the ideas. however, this leads to the problem of origin; what if those "ideas" are just shadows themselves? Where does it end. Aristotle contradicts this theory with the thought that there are no innate ideas, and "ideas" are merely reflections of nature. he also asserted that everything in the universe was created to serve a purpose, and not simply to exist. Aristotle's theory is also flawed in that it lacks a beginning. Aristotle attributes the beginning to an act of God, but gives no further insight as to the nature of this God.

During the Middle Ages, St. Augustine accepted the ideas of Plato of the "shadow world" but held that through faith and the awakening of a soul by God would the idea world be revealed. St. Thomas Aquinas took this idea further and adapted it with the philosophy of Aristotle. While reason and the senses can point towards truth and reality, only through faith can purpose and the will of God. Religion is somewhat like espionage; reason must be used to find the true message in a stack of fakes, and faith will provide the key to deciphering it.


Just my .3 cents.


Oh, in case anyone might have the fallacy that I'm smart, I took a lot of the factual information from Sophie's World. Great book, I highly encourage reading it.

OldPhart
05-24-2007, 08:42 PM
Since these guys couldn't figure it all out... I don't feel so bad anymore.

BTW - nice post

Imp
05-24-2007, 08:49 PM
See, now. I believe that all these can be tied together as a whole. I don't know what 'religion' is would be called, but nonetheless I am leaning towards that as a summary of beliefs.

I think if we tie these worlds together, we can start to get a clearer picture of what life and death are about.
I believe in 7 realms of existence, shadow world being one of them. I believe in a spiritual world where things happen and it affects us in the physical world. Also what happens in our physical world affects our spiritual world, and so on.

I wonder if life is an illusion. A conceived image that is not real but made real for our sanity and feeble minds to keep an order of a sense of who we are in the whole of things.. In the end I truly believe it's our spirit that matters and growth of the spirit is the key, thru each of these avenues to make a whole.

I believe for everything there is a season. Things happen for a reason and we learn *good and/or bad* thru it to progress our understanding and spirit.

*Imp tosses in 2 cents.*

~Sal~
05-24-2007, 08:56 PM
I'd toss in my penny, but I have to think about it a bit more...:D

Imp
05-24-2007, 09:09 PM
I hope it makes sense, I'm buzzed pretty well here.

~Sal~
05-24-2007, 09:12 PM
I hope it makes sense, I'm buzzed pretty well here.
No I think you are heading in the right direction. I think the truth will likely be a combination of all... I just know I should be in bed instead of posting.... adios .... off we go for now...

Evil Homer
05-24-2007, 09:17 PM
A few more and we can collectively buy a Butterfinger!


Personally, my view is much less romantic than those I've listed. I believe in the perfection of the universe. I take the old post renaissance view that the entire universe is like a big clock tower, and all the parts are winding down. I do not believe that the universe is cyclical, but it would be most beautiful if it was. All occurences down to the tiniest particle are the result of a grand interaction of natural laws. We are here to play our part and obey the laws, and we couldnt disobey if we wanted to, because our wanting to would also be a result of these laws.

To reiterate: the universe is perfect. The concepts of whether this is good or bad, even if we could comprehend them, are irrelevant. Good and bad are relative value judgments which are inapplicable to an absolute. Everything is exactly as it should be.

This view also presents me with a delicious paradox, namely our own microscopic significance, but our noticable influence. Compared to the galaxy, we are an atom on a grain of sand in the middle of the desert. Compared to the universe, we are incomprehensibly smaller. Still, despite this, every action that any individual performs affects every single other object in the universe, no matter how far away it is. We are both gods and insects.


Just another 3 cents.

Imp
05-24-2007, 09:18 PM
g'dnight dear, sleep well.

Imp
05-24-2007, 09:28 PM
A few more and we can collectively buy a Butterfinger!


Personally, my view is much less romantic than those I've listed. I believe in the perfection of the universe. I take the old post renaissance view that the entire universe is like a big clock tower, and all the parts are winding down. I do not believe that the universe is cyclical, but it would be most beautiful if it was. All occurences down to the tiniest particle are the result of a grand interaction of natural laws. We are here to play our part and obey the laws, and we couldnt disobey if we wanted to, because our wanting to would also be a result of these laws.

To reiterate: the universe is perfect. The concepts of whether this is good or bad, even if we could comprehend them, are irrelevant. Good and bad are relative value judgments which are inapplicable to an absolute. Everything is exactly as it should be.

This view also presents me with a delicious paradox, namely our own microscopic significance, but our noticable influence. Compared to the galaxy, we are an atom on a grain of sand in the middle of the desert. Compared to the universe, we are incomprehensibly smaller. Still, despite this, every action that any individual performs affects every single other object in the universe, no matter how far away it is. We are both gods and insects.


Just another 3 cents.
I agree to an extent. I do believe we as mere humans are irrelavant to the whole scheme of things, as a speck of dirt upon a spinning rock. But, on the spiritual side, I think of each of us as a fragmented spirit and only thru growth of life and the spirit do we reconnect to a bigger being to eventually make a whole.

There is a destination that lies with in each of us for a sole purpose to reach the spot we need to to make it complete not only in ourselfs, but as a whole.

We walk out own course of fate and destiny thru this life to live and learn, change and grow, to better ourselfs in the end, to make us more pure than we are now.As a diamond in the rough, we are purified, chiseled away at and reformed to fit in our perfect spot. The place we are meant to be in all along.To complete the big picture.

ok, I'm done for tongiht. Butterfingers are good.

warrior1972
05-24-2007, 10:14 PM
well I think that life and the universe is constantly recycling itself. The energy that we are made up is released when we die and becomes food or substance for something else. Although I do not believe we retain our consciousness I believe that part of us never die that we become the dirt and feed the grass and bring life to it with our energy force and the grass is eaten by the deer and we become the deer and so on and so forth.
It is said we only experience what our sensory allow us to that we are very limited in sensing our envirnment and that what we see, feel, smell and hear is not the real reality of the world but our limited perception of it.
As for faith one must have faith in something to survive emotionally. Whether faith that it will all work out in the in. Faith to get that job to keep being able to pay rent. It think faith is hope. Faith that you will get through one more day.