The White House and the US Senate have reached a deal on a immiration bill that could give legal status to many of the 12m illegal immigrants in the United States.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6667257.stm

if they can afford it.

if they can afford it.
It wont work unless its written in stone that these people can re-enter the US and then pay off the bill.
Though the fact they're asked to leave first,smells of a rat.

5 Grand to become an American, not bad.

It wont work unless its written in stone that these people can re-enter the US and then pay off the bill.
Though the fact they're asked to leave first,smells of a rat.

5 Grand to become an American, not bad.
not bad at all...if you can get that kind of cash picking lettuce or working at McDonald's.

Its not just a matter of $5000. At present visa applications must include results from a medical check up, immunizations, and a background check, all paid for by the applicant. They WON'T pay for those things now. Why do our politicians think this bill will change anything? Or is this Z visa going to be exempt from those requirements?

not bad at all...if you can get that kind of cash picking lettuce or working at McDonald's.
Sell to vegetarians, theres no meat in either.

Its not just a matter of $5000. At present visa applications must include results from a medical check up, immunizations, and a background check, all paid for by the applicant. They WON'T pay for those things now. Why do our politicians think this bill will change anything? Or is this Z visa going to be exempt from those requirements?
i'm sure it's going to come with a crack-down on the employers (i hope), and a big, fat "they had their chance" for the people that complain.

I doubt there will be many illegal immigrants which actually get this Z visa. 5k, plus leaving the country for 8-13 years just to be eligible. The illegals would probably rather just stay in the states as illegals.

I doubt there will be many illegal immigrants which actually get this Z visa. 5k, plus leaving the country for 8-13 years just to be eligible. The illegals would probably rather just stay in the states as illegals.

They don't have to leave the country for 8-13 years. Just to get the Z visa. But it will take them 8-13 years to obtain a green card.

I doubt there will be many illegal immigrants which actually get this Z visa. 5k, plus leaving the country for 8-13 years just to be eligible. The illegals would probably rather just stay in the states as illegals.
yeah this bill has interesting proposals but zero real use. I don't believe in borders in the first place but they wanted this to be workable...

They should:
Z visas ordered through the mexican consulate.
Retrieve Z Visas at the US mexico border.
Visa not more than $300. No fine.
Use point system.
renew every 3 years.
5-10 years for possible residency.
Those deported are not eligible.

Visa deal not good enough for illegals.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070517/ap_on_re_us/immigration_reaction_2

um they have to pass a criminal check but they broke the law by crossing the border ILLEGALLY which is a criminal offense. I do not forsee anyone getting the visa. LOL

Visa deal not good enough for illegals.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070517/ap_on_re_us/immigration_reaction_2

Umm they want a free ride for crossing our borders illegally and not pay time in jail or money for it??

give them a choice spend 5 years in jail or 5,000 dollars but to get off scott free is not acceptable.

Hmm lets let all the meth dealers off the hook from fines and jail time since it is not a good deal for them.

I think it sounds pretty fair. Not kicking them out. Not letting them do whatever they want.

I'm on board.

This will go the way of all the english-only, no driveres license, no government benefits, no voting bills such as the one in AZ. Once passed, every part of the bill except one was overturned by the courts. The part upheld was the no voting provision ... so all the illegals got to stay, put their kids in school, get free health care, food stamps, Social Security et al. IOW -- the bill was a smokescreen to keep mexicans from voting - no more, no less and this bill will be the same ... a smokescreen to legalize 20 million (notice how the number jumped up from 12 million -- ROTF) and they will never pay a penny nor will they take any health exams or any other provisions.

You're being scammed and again it's a republican president that is doing it. First it was Reagan and now it's Bush.

FWIW - the right wing web sites and hate radio stations are already calling for bush to be impeached if he signs such a bill. The blowback for the republican party from this one will be devastating.

Buh-bye GOP.

One more thing .. if you plan on getting sick, do it now cause once this bill is passed, the emergency room lines will be out in the streets.

Umm they want a free ride for crossing our borders illegally and not pay time in jail or money for it??

give them a choice spend 5 years in jail or 5,000 dollars but to get off scott free is not acceptable.

Hmm lets let all the meth dealers off the hook from fines and jail time since it is not a good deal for them.

You are getting more ridiculous with each new post. To assume that these immigrants are doing anything illegal is asinine. You can call them illegal immigrants all you want, but the government has been profiting off of them for years. Most of them work for an employer who takes taxes out of their check and sends it into the IRS. Even though the SSN is fake, no one says a thing. The government just keeps the money. Its the governments careful balance of pretending like they need to do something about the immigrants and getting free cash. Don't pretend like we don't need these people and don't pretend like they're all criminals here to do bad.

Its funny, but every time an immigration amnesty bill comes up, its presented by a Democrat.
If this makes it past both Houses of Congress, and gets signed by the President, it will be the second time a Democratic controlled Congress presented an amnesty bill to a Republican president.
This is, once again, politicians, from both parties, ignoring the voting public.

You are getting more ridiculous with each new post. To assume that these immigrants are doing anything illegal is asinine. You can call them illegal immigrants all you want, but the government has been profiting off of them for years. Most of them work for an employer who takes taxes out of their check and sends it into the IRS. Even though the SSN is fake, no one says a thing. The government just keeps the money. Its the governments careful balance of pretending like they need to do something about the immigrants and getting free cash. Don't pretend like we don't need these people and don't pretend like they're all criminals here to do bad.

Payroll taxes are taken out but the employer does not get to keep it.

Illegals do not pay income tax. If you don't know how they get out of it... just ask and I'd be glad to tell you.

To assume that these immigrants are doing anything illegal is asinine. You can call them illegal immigrants all you want, but the government has been profiting off of them for years. Most of them work for an employer who takes taxes out of their check and sends it into the IRS. Even though the SSN is fake, no one says a thing. The government just keeps the money. Its the governments careful balance of pretending like they need to do something about the immigrants and getting free cash. Don't pretend like we don't need these people and don't pretend like they're all criminals here to do bad.

Both of your points are off base. But I'm tired of posting links. Google "illegal immigration cost", you will find 5,150,000 links. Now I have not read all of them. But everyone I have read says illegals cost, the govt. (fed & local) more than the pay in taxes.

Payroll taxes are taken out but the employer does not get to keep it.

Illegals do not pay income tax. If you don't know how they get out of it... just ask and I'd be glad to tell you.

I know the employer doesn't keep them. I am an employer.

Illegal immigrants cost us money, of course they do. But they do pay all their taxes, in full. I know because I employed two of them for about three years. I had no idea and never heard anything from the government until about 6 months after 9/11.

But how many billions have we spent in Iraq to 'try to give them democracy?' How many trillions have we spent in Africa to cure diseases? You think we should turn away Mexicans? For what real reason? Is it because many of them get free health care? How many Americans get free health care? They pay into the medicare program each month in their checks. Some don't, some employers keep it off the books. Post a link to a bunch of figures showing how much they cost us each year. Who cares. If we're not wasting money on something, then we're wasting it on something else.

There is a ridiculous prejudice and double standard towards illegal immigrants. The unwarranted racism towards them is only getting worse and its pathetic given our country's history with racism.

Both of your points are off base. But I'm tired of posting links. Google "illegal immigration cost", you will find 5,150,000 links. Now I have not read all of them. But everyone I have read says illegals cost, the govt. (fed & local) more than the pay in taxes.

Which is all the more reason to make sure all these immigrants are documented properly and paying their taxes without fear of being sent back to Mexico.

Which is all the more reason to make sure all these immigrants are documented properly and paying their taxes without fear of being sent back to Mexico.


Wrong again, Mr Cooper. Criminal aliens are deported, under U.S. law. The fact that they are here illegally, are working illegally, and probably using phony, or stolen documents (all felonies, in most states, by the way), proves they are criminals, regardless of intent.

You are getting more ridiculous with each new post. To assume that these immigrants are doing anything illegal is asinine. You can call them illegal immigrants all you want, but the government has been profiting off of them for years. Most of them work for an employer who takes taxes out of their check and sends it into the IRS. Even though the SSN is fake, no one says a thing. The government just keeps the money. Its the governments careful balance of pretending like they need to do something about the immigrants and getting free cash. Don't pretend like we don't need these people and don't pretend like they're all criminals here to do bad.

It is illegal for a reason. AGAINST THE LAW!! to come here without proper documentation, background check and being immunized. People like you like illegal aliens because they are willing to work for slave wages while Americans demand a livable wage. People like you want make 1,000s more a year off of cheap labor and have the middle class pay for thier medicaid because they make such low wage they still qualify for welfare. So why you are lining your pockets americans are losing jobs and middle class americans pay for your greed.

We don't mind taking on immigrants with the proper paperwork and waiting in line like everyone else. It is not fair to the other immigrants who waited 4 years and play by all the rules for some illegal to come in and get to work the next day.

I think people like you need to be fined a couple thousand dollar for each illegal immigrant and each immigrant with false SSN. I think business must pay for hiring illegal aliens and be forced to search the data base of SSN and make sure they are legit.

Your free ride of slave labor will come to an end!!

Its funny, but every time an immigration amnesty bill comes up, its presented by a Democrat.amnesty? They are demanding a $5000 fine. Are you kidding?

I think people like you??? he never said he hired border jumpers...

amnesty? They are demanding a $5000 fine. Are you kidding?

??? he never said he hired border jumpers...

Any illegal alien, who admits to being in the country illegally, working illegally, etc, etc, is admitting to the commission of a felony. A deportable offense, probably more than one. They will have to be granted amnesty, for their past crimes, in order to stay in this country, or to be allowed back in after leaving to get a Z visa. Felons are restricted from getting visa's.

The illegals would probably rather just stay in the states as illegals.


Sadly, you're probably right. And that will be the case until immigration law enforcement gets REALLY serious.

Nevertheless, this bill is on the right track. The fine seems doable AND appropriate. I think the real problem is forcing the immigrants to go home. Also, is there an English test provision? One of the biggest problems with illegals today is their desire to speak English as little as possible.

I think this is a rather ill thought out bill.Both partys seem to want to be seen as addressing illegal Immigration, but have comprimised each others view so much that this rubbish was agreed upon.
Who in they're right mind is gonna go back to they're country of origin, pay a large fine,wait for years to be allowed back.

One of the biggest problems with illegals today is their desire to speak English as little as possible.
also a problem in inner city schools...:bombout:

Not only are the illegals, already in the States, against this proposal. The Mexicans, still in Mexico, are against it, too.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070518/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_immigrant_outrage_8

Not only are the illegals, already in the States, against this proposal. The Mexicans, still in Mexico, are against it, too.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070518/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/mexico_immigrant_outrage_8
so, just who is for it?

The guys on the hill, thats it. They wont have to address the issue at election time now.

so, just who is for it?


Good question. I think Paul has come pretty close.

That would the only people I can think of that are for it. personally I'm all for making them pay and still leave.

Maybe your gonna volunteer to do all the shit jobs when they leave also.

Pay the right wage for them and you'll get people to do em. Oh yeah and they have to be made SAFE to do.

Well theres the crux of the matter,deport all illegals,pay Americans the right wage to do the job,and everything will be hunky dorey.
I know American business hates exploiting these people anyway.

Well theres the crux of the matter,deport all illegals,pay Americans the right wage to do the job,and everything will be hunky dorey.


See I knew if we just talked it out we could agree. :)

Thanks for putting me strait then ,hehe

Paul who does all "shit jobs" in Ireland, and how much are they paid for doing them?
Prior to the 1980's illegals were used for very few jobs, in the U.S., and almost all of them were in the fields doing stoop labor. Constructon, hotel and restruant work were pretty good paying, low skill jobs. Brick masions, plumbers assistants, and the like were semi-skilled labor. Those are all jobs now filled by illegals.

Paul it looks like we were wrong. Even the politicians hate this proposal.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070518/pl_nm/usa_immigration_congress_dc_8

Hmm, well Im gonna have to take the rap for leaking it here, I wonder were it originated.
Oddly enough, I was thinking earlier.
What date is the cut off for these illegals.
How do you get this round the legislator.
Im curious as to how long it takes to push a bill thru, before its law. Before or after the elections.

I know the employer doesn't keep them. I am an employer.

Illegal immigrants cost us money, of course they do. But they do pay all their taxes, in full. I know because I employed two of them for about three years. I had no idea and never heard anything from the government until about 6 months after 9/11.

But how many billions have we spent in Iraq to 'try to give them democracy?' How many trillions have we spent in Africa to cure diseases? You think we should turn away Mexicans? For what real reason? Is it because many of them get free health care? How many Americans get free health care? They pay into the medicare program each month in their checks. Some don't, some employers keep it off the books. Post a link to a bunch of figures showing how much they cost us each year. Who cares. If we're not wasting money on something, then we're wasting it on something else.

There is a ridiculous prejudice and double standard towards illegal immigrants. The unwarranted racism towards them is only getting worse and its pathetic given our country's history with racism.

For starters ... everyone pays into medicare (except congress) and we don't get free health care.

What is your exact claim about the 2 illegals you employ?

1) They file their return
2) They pay their income taxes
3) Both

Here is another indication that this thing is already dead.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070518/ap_on_go_co/immigration_congress_79

People like you like illegal aliens because they are willing to work for slave wages while Americans demand a livable wage.

Your free ride of slave labor will come to an end!!

I have never started an employee at less than $10 per hour for a position that is really only worth $7.50. The two 'illegals' that worked for me, the two that I had no idea were illegal, one made about $40,000 a year and the other about $25,000. This is in an area where the average household income with two working parents is $48,000. The one that made $25,000 was the nephew of the $40,000 guy. I hired him when he was 16, he finished his schooling in Mexico and moved here to make money for his family that was still living in Mexico. Five people lived off of the $600 a month he sent them.

I have never had an employee that has worked for me for more than a year and with the great pay that I give them, be unable to buy a house and live comfortably.

You are so fucking naive about the world.

For starters ... everyone pays into medicare (except congress) and we don't get free health care.

What is your exact claim about the 2 illegals you employ?

1) They file their return
2) They pay their income taxes
3) Both

They both paid their taxes in full. I know we don't get free health care. I was referring to the many illegal immigrants that go to hospitals with no money and give them no choice but treat them for free. I was acknowledging that problem. But yes, when you are at a certain income level, there is free health care, especially matters regarding maternity and children. They pay into the medicare program to make this happen, just like everyone else. Medicare is basically insurance. A shit insurance, but insurance. They pay it, they should be able to receive benefits.

I know some don't pay it. I get that..........

So on, so on...

Constructon, hotel and restruant work were pretty good paying, low skill jobs. Brick masions, plumbers assistants, and the like were semi-skilled labor. Those are all jobs now filled by illegals.

As far as construction workers, really only in certain situations. An obvious increase in Mexican laborers, but there are plenty of 'white' companies, at this time that would include mine, that are competing just fine with illegals you are speaking of.

Some give low prices and have low quality work. I don't even consider them competition. The ones that do a pretty good job and charge a pretty good price, their the tough ones. But it is a capitalist country, that's how it goes.

As far as construction workers, really only in certain situations. An obvious increase in Mexican laborers, but there are plenty of 'white' companies, at this time that would include mine, that are competing just fine with illegals you are speaking of.

Some give low prices and have low quality work. I don't even consider them competition. The ones that do a pretty good job and charge a pretty good price, their the tough ones. But it is a capitalist country, that's how it goes.


There are always exceptions. However, for every company like yours there are 20 hiring nothing but unskilled, or semi-skilled illegals. Almost always as sub-contractors, so as to avoid be charged with employing illegals.

What a mess our politicians make, when the work behind closed doors.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070522/pl_nm/usa_immigration_congress_dc_2

Paul who does all "shit jobs" in Ireland, and how much are they paid for doing them?
Prior to the 1980's illegals were used for very few jobs, in the U.S., and almost all of them were in the fields doing stoop labor. Constructon, hotel and restruant work were pretty good paying, low skill jobs. Brick masions, plumbers assistants, and the like were semi-skilled labor. Those are all jobs now filled by illegals.
In Ireland a lot of the shit jobs are done by foreigners, and locals. The locals being the school drop outs and uneducated, the foreigners being mostly Polish, and other East Europeans. Tho I have to say, Poles make up the vast majority. As for illegals, sure there are some, how many god knows, being an island its more difficult to get into. An example. If I was to catch a bus from Belfast to Dublin, when it crosses the border the first place it stops is Dundalk, at the bus station Immigration get on and ask for ID of everyone, same on boats and planes. Tho a lot of people come on one year visa's.

Prospective employers want illegals to be allowed to stay because they are cheap labor. How short sighted can they be? Do they really think that once the illegal workeres become legal they will be willing to continue working for the same low wages. Once they become legal they will be demanding the same wages as everyone else. What do we do then, sneak in more illegals to keep wages low?

Prospective employers want illegals to be allowed to stay because they are cheap labor. How short sighted can they be? Do they really think that once the illegal workeres become legal they will be willing to continue working for the same low wages. Once they become legal they will be demanding the same wages as everyone else. What do we do then, sneak in more illegals to keep wages low?

You're exactly right, Frogger. The wheel just goes round and round and round...

:mad:

Prospective employers want illegals to be allowed to stay because they are cheap labor. How short sighted can they be? Do they really think that once the illegal workeres become legal they will be willing to continue working for the same low wages. Once they become legal they will be demanding the same wages as everyone else. What do we do then, sneak in more illegals to keep wages low?


Thats just what happened after 1986. At that time the numbers were only 3 million, or so illegals. Now, just a short 21 years later, we are talking about 12 million plus. Twenty yrs from now, it will be 50 million, unless its stopped, NOW.

To immigrants, US reform bill is unrealistic By Amanda Paulson, Faye Bowers and Daniel B. Wood, Staff writers of The Christian Science Monitor
Mon May 21, 4:00 AM ET



On any given day in the Home Depot parking lot in the San Fernando Valley, from 100 to 200 day laborers – almost all undocumented – show up hoping for work. Much of the talk Friday was of the new Senate immigration plan – particularly its proposal to let illegal immigrants step forward and start down the path to legalization and, eventually, US citizenship.

"This is unquestionably an opportunity to come out of the shadows and into the sunlight," says Jefe Rodriguez, a middle-age contractor who says he makes about $200 in a good week. "However, $5,000" – the price tag to apply for permanent residency – "is way too much money, mucho dinero. We don't have that kind of money."

This reaction – "yes, but ..." – is one sign that the reforms could fall short, even if they were to become law, because illegal immigrants themselves may prefer business as usual to a regimen of fees and journeys home. Their early reactions range from guarded optimism to good-humored laughter at the idea that the plan, as laid out, could actually work.

Still, the view in Washington, where the Senate is to debate the bill this week, is that this fragile but bipartisan agreement represents a significant step toward finding common ground on a issue that has divided the country in recent years. The legislation is not without its critics, generating criticism from hard-liners on both sides of the immigration debate, but it is lauded by many as an imperfect compromise.

A significant concern outside the Beltway is that the requirements of the proposed bill may prove too burdensome. Many immigrants can't conceive of how to scrape together the fines and fees necessary to enroll in the program, or distrust the requirement that the head of household return to his or her country of origin.

Still, some activists see it both as a good starting point and an opportunity for many immigrants to find security.

"It's immature to say nothing is better than something imperfect," says Emma Lozano, president of Pueblo Sin Fronteras in Chicago. "How can you say that to someone who's life is in the balance, or who has already been separated from their family?"

Ms. Lozano is critical of many aspects of the legislation – the steep requirements to apply for legalization, the future shift away from a family-based visa policy to a skills-based one, the temporary worker program with no hope of permanency. But she says it's an important step forward that she hopes can be improved through negotiations, and a real achievement given Washington's current political climate.

As the details of the plan emerged last week, anti-immigration groups have been the most critical, calling the proposal a capitulation rather than a compromise, and denouncing the new "Z Visa" program and its eventual promise of a green card as amnesty.

"This is just an amnesty dressed up with some provisions to make it more appealing to skeptics," says Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a group that supports immigration restrictions. In addition to the path to legalization for current undocumented immigrants, the proposal includes increases in legal immigration, he notes: "A compromise would be keeping one and getting rid of the other."

Pro-immigrant groups, meanwhile, have been more warily optimistic, hailing the agreement as an important achievement even as they lobby to alter some of the stricter measures, particularly the future changes that would shift preferences for visas from family connections to skills, education, and English language ability.

"That is an incredibly radical change, which undoes the basis of our legal immigration system," noted Cecilia Muñoz, vice president for the office of research, advocacy, and legislation at the National Council of La Raza, a Latino advocacy group, in a press briefing.

Still, she and others praise the bill for providing both a path to citizenship as well as a plan to reduce the backlog of current family-based visa applications – an estimated 4 million applications from families who have been waiting as long as 22 years.

"Any deal will be criticized as amnesty by people who want to kill it, and some groups will fight anything that reduces family-based categories," says Deborah Meyers, a senior policy analyst with the Migration Policy Institute. "But at the same time there are 12 million people here who would benefit now, plus millions of people in the backlogs, plus legal channels for future workers. You're talking about trade-offs for now versus later."

It's those workers themselves – far away from the difficult policy negotiations of the Senate floor and less aware of the political trade-offs that get a bill passed – who are in some ways the most skeptical. Even as they yearn for a way to earn legalization, and therefore security, many are inherently distrustful that a law that requires them to return to their native country would also guarantee them re-entry, and the $5,000 fine seems, to some, as out of reach as if it were $50,000.

"We would never be able to raise that kind of money to start the process," says Desmond, a girl who attends John Muir High School in Pasadena, Calif., and didn't want to give her last name, speaking through an interpreter. She has lived in America since kindergarten, with her uncle, grandmother, cousin, and aunts, and says she doesn't know any undocumented immigrants who could afford that amount. "Even more important, I would be scared that they are lying to us…. That they are just saying whatever they could to get all the illegal people and deport them."

In North Phoenix, where Salvador Reza runs a work center where some 85 to 110 immigrants wait in a graveled parking lot for employers to pick them up for landscaping, painting, and housecleaning jobs, Mr. Reza is somewhat more optimistic – he calls the proposal "a good start" – but is still skeptical.

In addition to the steep requirements for visa applications, he worries that adding more agents and infrastructure to the border control will further criminalize activity there.

"This will corrupt even more," Reza says. "It will create better networks of mafia that control it and become even more sophisticated."

And some immigrants say the plan, if implemented as is, may simply encourage them to return to their home country for good.

"Work is slow right now," says Ramiro Ruiz, a young man from Chiapas who's worked in Phoenix for the past two years, mainly as a landscaper. And he misses his family. Paying $5,000, he says, is out of the question. "I will maybe stay here two years, three maximum."

Margarita Medina, who crossed the border 19 years ago and has since earned a resident alien card by marrying a resident, says she's horrified by the proposed requirements, particularly the trip back to a home country.

"For families, this is terrible," she says, as she fills out a citizenship application – her second – in a South Phoenix office. "I don't ever want to go back, and it would be so hard to break up families."

The fragile Senate bill, which already has some lawmakers distancing themselves from it, will likely face significant changes even if it survives and makes it through the House. It's a process that some immigrant advocates see as a chance to improve the bill's weaknesses, though retaining bipartisan support could be tough with more measures favorable to illegal immigrants.

"We understand the value of this being introduced and moving forward, but we really need to have these problems fixed," says Roslyn Gold, chief counsel for the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials. "If you have a program that the immigrants don't apply for, you don't have an effective program."


I would like to know what right these people have to call ANY prospective law unrealistic.

Read the article carefully and think to yourself, thse are people who are here illegally trying to dictate the best course of action OUR government should take to allow them to remain in the country legally. When the hell are Americans going to wake up and realize these people are taking advantage of them daily. I say step up the raids and get them all out now.

I would like to know what right these people have to call ANY prospective law unrealistic.

Read the article carefully and think to yourself, thse are people who are here illegally trying to dictate the best course of action OUR government should take to allow them to remain in the country legally. When the hell are Americans going to wake up and realize these people are taking advantage of them daily. I say step up the raids and get them all out now.
Yeah Genzo, spend a fortune hunting these people down and deporting them.
Make room for the new arrivals.

Yeah Genzo, spend a fortune hunting these people down and deporting them.
Make room for the new arrivals.

No need to do that. Just step up the raids on employers, levy fines, and close down businesses that hire illegals. They'll leave on their own.

You're exactly right, Frogger. The wheel just goes round and round and round...

:mad:

Y"ou spin me round baby right round like a record baby.. round ..round.. round"

You missed the last 'round'.

:)

Yeah Genzo, spend a fortune hunting these people down and deporting them.
Make room for the new arrivals.

We already spend a fortune supporting them here. They use the hospitals don't they? they have insurance? No.

The hospital can't refuse them emergency room treatment so they charge more to the insurance companies of the insured patients. Guess who gets a rate increase. You wanna support them for the rest of their illegal stay here fine, I'm tired of paying more so other people don't have to.

No need to do that. Just step up the raids on employers, levy fines, and close down businesses that hire illegals. They'll leave on their own.

And close them down on their first offense. Enough of the hand slaps already, nothing gets accomplished that way. I think we need to vote EVERYONE who's in office OUT. That'll send a message that they need to listen up and do their dam jobs right for a change.

We already spend a fortune supporting them here. They use the hospitals don't they? they have insurance? No. I dont know if they have insurance or not.

The hospital can't refuse them emergency room treatment so they charge more to the insurance companies of the insured patients. Guess who gets a rate increase. You wanna support them for the rest of their illegal stay here fine, I'm tired of paying more so other people don't have to.Never seen a hoepiyal i the world that refused an emergency patient treatment. Maybe they should conduct a finance check before saving them.

Paul,

Every time a legal citizen enters the hospital for treatment there is a surcharge added to the bill to help pay for the care of illegal immigrants and other people who do not pay for their hospital stays. Also, illegal immigrants tend to use the hospital emergency rooms as other people use their family doctor, not for emergencies but for general health care. Every time they do so it costs me and every other tax payer money.

Fair enough, I didnt know that, cant understand this paying for healthcare anyway.

PS. Whats the shield.

That's the shield of the Ninety Second Field Artillery, my old military unit.

Paul,

Every time a legal citizen enters the hospital for treatment there is a surcharge added to the bill to help pay for the care of illegal immigrants and other people who do not pay for their hospital stays.

Everyone should notice the 'other people who do not pay for their hospital stays.'

We like to pretend that americans actually pay their taxes, hospital bills, etc. What percentage actually do? I don't think more than half of LEGAL residents pay their taxes. Doubt many pay their hospital bills.

We like to pretend that americans actually pay their taxes, hospital bills, etc. What percentage actually do? I don't think more than half of LEGAL residents pay their taxes. Doubt many pay their hospital bills.
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First off, we're talking about ILLEGALS here. Not U.S LEGAL citizens. Lets not shift the discussion.

Secondly,I think if only 1/2 the legal citizens paid their taxes we would be in MUCH worse trouble than we are. Many people also have insurance to cover their hospital visits so no, technically they don't pay the bill directly, but you can bet the hospital gets paid by someone MOST of the time or they wouldn't be open. Maybe if they didn't have to care for all these illegals the costs would be much lower anyway and maybe the ones who can't afford to pay them would be able to afford it.

First off, we're talking about ILLEGALS here. Not U.S LEGAL citizens. Lets not shift the discussion.

Secondly,I think if only 1/2 the legal citizens paid their taxes we would be in MUCH worse trouble than we are. Many people also have insurance to cover their hospital visits so no, technically they don't pay the bill directly, but you can bet the hospital gets paid by someone MOST of the time or they wouldn't be open. Maybe if they didn't have to care for all these illegals the costs would be much lower anyway and maybe the ones who can't afford to pay them would be able to afford it.


I am on topic. Everyone likes to point the blame to illegal immigrants for the United States losing massive amounts of money. They cost a lot of money, yes, but so do millions of people who live here legally. And even though they are legal, it does not give them the right to not pay taxes or skip out on doctor bills. As far as 1/2 the legal citizens not paying taxes, that's not all by choice. Many people fit into a tax bracket where they don't have to pay taxes.

Many people actually do not have insurance. And when they get hospital bills they don't want to pay, its not hard for them to avoid them. Sometimes hospitals don't get any money, they typically get small amounts stretched out interest free over a long period of time or come to an agreement with the payee for a much smaller amount. Many hospitals operate in a near bankrupt mode of operation. Haven't heard the stories on the news... ?

The costs of illegal immigrants are a nice scape goat for the government and citizens of the United States who want to pretend as if we are all doing our part to help the problem.

We can go back and forth all you want. There's a problem with many different parts of our society, government, so on...

Here is an interesting poll, on the immigration issue.

http://www.numbersusa.com/hottopic/pulsepoll0507.html

There's a problem with many different parts of our society, government, so on...

I totally agree on this point. But does that mean that we don't try to solve SOME of the problems where we find them? I am not saying that ILLEGALS cause all the problem, but if they are PART of the problem why not take care of it?