Assuming that the Bombing of Pearl Harbor never happened, how do you think WWII would have ended if the U.S. had decided not to intervene :@@:

I think Germany would have conquered Soviet Russia but not England because of their Navy.

The Germans would have eventually turned on their "allies" Italy and Japan and taken over their conquered territories.

But, I can't imagine a scenario wherein the US would not have entered this war eventually, if only to help England if no one else.

I like these alternate history posts.

Lets see, if the US never entered the war........Germany, without having to put so many resources into building and manning the Atlantic Wall, would have defeated the Soviet Union. They would still have to leave a large force in Russia though to combat all the partisans who would continue to fight, and to occupy such a large country.

With the Soviets defeated the Germans would have been able to conquer the British. Yes, the British had a good navy, but if they brought the whole navy into the channel to defend the home island the German airforce, stationed on the coast of France, would have sunk the whole fleet. the Germans would have loved to see a mass British navy sitting in the English Channel. Easy pickings for the Luftwaffe.

The Japanese would have total control of the pacific and half of asia while the Germans would control Europe and the other half of asia. The US would stand alone (*Cue music from Red Dawn*)

Maybe the British bombers would have wiped out the German planes while they were sitting on the ground in France.
And the Spitfire was more than a match for the Luftwaffe's planes.
The British had also broken the German code, Ultra.

PS I HATE the idea of England losing to Germany!
Nein, nein....jolly old England hasn't been conquered since 1066.

They also had Churchill, a wily old coot who was more than a match for Adolf, and the Queen mum, who Hitler called "the most dangerous woman in Europe."

It woulda been one heck of a fight.

PS. Interesting what would have happened if the British blocked the Strait of Gibralter.

Maybe the British bombers would have wiped out the German planes while they were sitting on the ground in France.
And the Spitfire was more than a match for the Luftwaffe's planes.
The British had also broken the German code, Ultra.

PS I HATE the idea of England losing to Germany!
Nein, nein....jolly old England hasn't been conquered since 1066.

They also had Churchill, a wily old coot who was more than a match for Adolf, and the Queen mum, who Hitler called "the most dangerous woman in Europe."

It woulda been one heck of a fight.

well, considering the Bristish didnt destroy all of the german bombers on the ground when the US was in the war, i dont see it happening if the US did not join the war. Think about it, all of the planes from the east brought into the fight against the RAF.
Think of all the planes the germans could have built if they didnt have to replace all that they were losing in the east. Sorry, but England could not have held out if it were not for Russia sucking up almost all the German armed forces.


Of course this as all assuming Hitler waited until he finished off Russia before invading england, or vice versa.

PS. Interesting what would have happened if the British blocked the Strait of Gibralter.

again, German planes from german held north Africa would sink em all. Without the american intervention Germany would have held north africa.

You're right, they woulda been eating bratwurst in Buckingham Palace and dancing the polka in Westminster Abbey.

Louts.

The Red Army.
The Red Army would have eventually ran all the way to the French coast if the US hadnt intervened. Britain was being cut off by U-Boat attacks on iys supplys.Oddly enough,I think Hitler was never keen on defeating Britain in the first place.
The Whermacht had overstretched supply lines in the East,had over estimated the resolve of the Soviet leadership,had under estimated the Russian winter,[red army tanks could move in sub zero tempertaures,german tanks froze].
The attack on Moscow,which never happended,would have turned into another Stalingrad,and Nazi Germany was doomed anyway,it would have taken an extra 2 years maybe.
The only thing that bothers me about my thinking is,in the extra time it would have taken the Russians,would the Nazis have developed they're own atomic bomb.Who knows.

In Europe, Russia would have won in the long run. It would have taken a bit longer, because without the aid provided by the U.S., Russian industry would have been a bit slower building up their forces. My guess is that they would have wound up with all of continental Europe, and control of the Middle East.

What would have been more interesting is the outcome of the war between Japan and China. In the long run, Japan would not have been able to defeat China. On the other hand, China would no have been able to defeat Japan either. It probably would have ended in some sort of negotiated settlement with Japan controlling the cosatal areas of China. The remainder of China would have been divided between the Koumintang and the Communists.

I wonder if the Ruskies would hae eventually attacked and pushed the Japs out of China.
Considering the advances the Red Army would have achieved,America would have eventually entered the war against Russia.
Didnt some senior Nazis approach Eisenhower begging him to join them in pushing back the Red Army back to their own borders.

the russians would not have beaten the germans if the germans didnt have to defend its western border agiant ivasion from the US and brits.

the germans poured so much material and men into the west that had thoe forces been available in the east it would have tipped the balance in germanys favor, at lest thats what I believe.

Dont know Trav.Most German casualties were inflicte on the Eastern Front,Germany was running out of troops and oil,fast.
The only thing they had left was the jet fighter and the v2 rocket.
Whether they could have made enough to stop the Russians is debateable.

this thread is about what would happen if the US never entered the war. If the US never entered the war there would be no threat of invasion across the english channel, so all those troops could have been used in the east ending that conflict in late '42, before it ever got to the point you are talking about. They would have taken the the Baku oil fields, and stalingrad, and cut off moscow and that would be all she wrote. the nearly did pull that off. having a few more divisions thrown into southern russia that were instead tied up in the west sitting on thier hands waiting for invasion would have been the difference.

Not having the americans to worry about would have also resulted in the super weapons you mentioned being produced in larger quantities where they could have made a difference.

in the end it took all the allies to win. we couldnt have done it with out russia, or britain, they couldnt have done it without us. And lets not forget all the help we got from Hitler and his many blunders. If he had listened to his generals he may have won regardless of what we did.

Nazi Germany would have been destroyed.

How come no mention of the many Anit-Fascist groups operating in every single country the Nazis occupied?

this is a thread about what would happen if the US did not enter the war, not a thread about anti fascist groups in occupied countries. If you want to start that thread I think it would a good one.

How come no mention of the many Anit-Fascist groups operating in every single country the Nazis occupied?
OK,I'll start off with Yugoslavia.The Chetniks and Communists managed to hold up the Nazi invasion of Greece by a couple of months.During the war over a million of them died.Unfortunatley the war between fieding ethnic groups was amongst the worst of the entire war,old wounds which reappeared with the collapse of the Communist state in the 90s.

Yes Trav I agree.Its a part of ww2 history that dosent get enough coverage.

OK,I'll start off with Yugoslavia.The Chetniks and Communists managed to hold up the Nazi invasion of Greece by a couple of months.During the war over a million of them died.Unfortunatley the war between fieding ethnic groups was amongst the worst of the entire war,old wounds which reappeared with the collapse of the Communist state in the 90s.

this is a un appreciated moment in the war, and quite possibly turned the tide. you see, the Nazis had to put off Barborossa a month due to the campaign in Greece, which coincidentaly is about the same ammount of time they came up short of capturing Moscow before winter made them pack it in for the year. had they launched Barborossa a month earlier Moscow would have fallen.

Yes I agree.
We need a new thread on this,I find Yugoslavias involvement very interesting.

OK, well go start a Yugolslavian appreciation thread, let this one get back to the "what if" theme

Shit,I cant even remember what this ones about.

If the USA had not entered ww2 the world would be a very different place today.
The war kick started Americas economy,which has never looked back since.
Russia would have won the war eventually,I think the Nazis hoped to reach the Urals and then would have stopped,tho holding on to that amount of territory,with supply lines stretched so far would have been near impossable.
To hold an Empire that size,Germany simply didnt have a big enough populaton to keep replacing troop levels,they're only hope was military technology,Im not sure how close they were to having the nuclear bomb,but they certainly had the means to deliver it.

The war kick started Americas economy,which has never looked back since.

OK, this is a little off topic since it's post war, but that made me think of something interesting - the Brits basically gave us the plans for the jet engine, which we turned into a major industry. Meanwhile the English aerospace industry is basically Rolls Royce and a whole bunch of failed airplane designs. I wonder how that would be different if we never got involved.

Hitler invading Russia was one of the biggest blunders of the war, if not the biggest in my opinion. The Japanese attacking Pearl Harbor and bringing the US into the war was to other one. The Germans probably could have taken over the whole of Europe minus US involvement. They could have just left England for another day because taking over England would have probably brought the US into the war as well. The US economy would not be what it is today either. WWII started an economic boom.

OK, this is a little off topic since it's post war, but that made me think of something interesting - the Brits basically gave us the plans for the jet engine, which we turned into a major industry. Meanwhile the English aerospace industry is basically Rolls Royce and a whole bunch of failed airplane designs. I wonder how that would be different if we never got involved.
Maybe this is the result.

Germany and Japan would have gotten nuclear weapons, so I believe that today we would be speaking either Japanese or German, including you guys in the US...
With nuclear weapons who needs to attack Pearl Harbor, "Lets go for the mainland" Banzai Motto!, and there would be no Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but a New York and Chicago remembrance monuments (or pick any other two cities).
Even though I don't like the ways of the US in today's world, it probably would've been a far worse situation with Japan and "Nazi" Germany ruling today.

I don't think Germany would have defeated Russia, they were being knocked back long before USA got involved.

It's a pretty interesting question though, near the end of the war Germany was pumping out jet planes and king tigers, if they had more time to mass produce these vastly superior weapons, they might have been able to shift the tide back into their favor. I doubt they would have won the war, (Hitler was dumb enough to invade Russia, he would have made additional errors down the road) but it definitely would have gone on for a couple more years at least.

Germany and Japan would have gotten nuclear weapons, so I believe that today we would be speaking either Japanese or German, including you guys in the US...
With nuclear weapons who needs to attack Pearl Harbor, "Lets go for the mainland" Banzai Motto!, and there would be no Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but a New York and Chicago remembrance monuments (or pick any other two cities).
Even though I don't like the ways of the US in today's world, it probably would've been a far worse situation with Japan and "Nazi" Germany ruling today.

I'm not so sure about that, from what I've heard Germany wasn't even remotely close to making a nuclear weapon. Most of their great minds left Germany when Hitler took power because they were Jewish. I've always wondered what would have happened if the Nazis weren't anti-semitic.

It's a pretty interesting question though, near the end of the war Germany was pumping out jet planes and king tigers, if they had more time to mass produce these vastly superior weapons, they might have been able to shift the tide back into their favor.

One of the problems with the King Tigers and jet planes was that they were too hard to mass produce. They'd probably have been better off sticking with things that were a little simpler.

One of the problems with the King Tigers and jet planes was that they were too hard to mass produce. They'd probably have been better off sticking with things that were a little simpler.

One of the big problems they had mass producing them was the bombing campaign that was destroying their manufacturing infrastructure. It was more than just the loss of factories, it was the loss of power plants, dams, railroads, and even roads and bridges. Also, by that point in the war many of their most skilled workers were serving in the military, leaving the factories manned by those unable to serve. This was all a problem, and would only partly have been alleviated by the Americans not entering the war.

One of the big problems they had mass producing them was the bombing campaign that was destroying their manufacturing infrastructure. It was more than just the loss of factories, it was the loss of power plants, dams, railroads, and even roads and bridges. Also, by that point in the war many of their most skilled workers were serving in the military, leaving the factories manned by those unable to serve. This was all a problem, and would only partly have been alleviated by the Americans not entering the war.

Well, if the U.S. didn't enter the war, there would've been less bombing. How much less is the real question.

How about the question of

"What would have happened to Nazi Germany if US companies were banned from supplying the Nazis?"

I mean how many lives would have been saved had Ford and GM/GE

How about the question of

"What would have happened to Nazi Germany if US companies were banned from supplying the Nazis?"

I mean how many lives would have been saved had Ford and GM/GE

Found this site on the net.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3255.htm

How about the question of

"What would have happened to Nazi Germany if US companies were banned from supplying the Nazis?"

I mean how many lives would have been saved had Ford and GM/GE

How about this: STFU. save it for politics.

Careful there Trav. We wouldn't want you to hurt your knee on the table...

perhaps you are unaware that this is the history section and this particular thread is about what might have happened if the US did not enter the war. If you want to insult me then do it in the politics forum where that kind of thing belongs. Your implications of the US supporting the Nazis are not needed in this thread. perhaps you could start a whole new thread for that.

One of the problems with the King Tigers and jet planes was that they were too hard to mass produce. They'd probably have been better off sticking with things that were a little simpler.

Excellent point. The Panther and Tiger tanks, as well as the advanced aircraft, could not be produced as fast as they were being destroyed. On the Russian front, the opposite was true. Because the Russians had moved all their heavy industry far to the east, and because their excellent tank design, the T-34, was easy to mass produce, the Russians were able to build tanks faster than the Germans could destroy them.

Trav, you and I have had the discussion already about the Russians and the Germans. IMO, the Germans never stood a chance in hell of beating the Russians . Let's remember too, that when the Germans launched Operation Barbarossa, they didn't do it alone. They had Italians, Romanians, Hungarians, Slovakians, and Finns alongside them. The Russians had only material support from the US and still managed to begin pushing the Germans back long before we invaded France. Of the material support we sent the Russians, it certainly helped, but it wasn't the sort of thing they couldn't have done without. They built their own tanks, planes, guns, and bullets in vast numbers, although apparently they greatly appreciated the large number of Dodge trucks we shipped them, and probably the 5 million pairs of boots. :)

In short, I think the Russians would have defeated the Germans without our help, although it may have taken a bit longer.

The Russians had only material support from the US and still managed to begin pushing the Germans back long before we invaded France. Of the material support we sent the Russians, it certainly helped, but it wasn't the sort of thing they couldn't have done without.Russian soldiers jokingly called American K-rations they received 'second fronts'. :)

Your implications of the US supporting the Nazis are not needed in this thread. perhaps you could start a whole new thread for that. Is is so bad to ask that you actually read what I wrote before having knee jerk reations? Go back and read what I wrote.

US corporations were allowed to make war machines for the Nazis. Shit they even sued (and won) the US for bombing their nazi factories.

The issue here is US coporations having power over the US government at the expense of American lives. I figured you cared about the lives of US servicemen...am I wrong?

Trav, I figured you cared about the lives of US servicemen...am I wrong?

Ouch Trav, did it hurt?

The issue here is US coporations having power over the US government at the expense of American lives.

Actually, the topic of this thread is a hypothetical discussion on the outcome of WWII if the US was not involved.


I figured you cared about the lives of US servicemen...am I wrong?

Knock it off 500.

Russian soldiers jokingly called American K-rations they received 'second fronts'. :)
Lawls, gotta love the Russkies.

Lawls, gotta love the Russkies.What is that it like. Is that your contribution to this thread.

Yep. Never bothered much with WW2 history. Which is why I'm following the thread instead of contributing. Learning much, btw.

Yep. Never bothered much with WW2 history. Which is why I'm following the thread instead of contributing. Learning much, btw.Oh. OK Then.

Actually, the topic of this thread is a hypothetical discussion on the outcome of WWII if the US was not involved. OK. I agree with Carbon. Germany could not keep up what they were doing indeninatly. Their slave labor was continually dying off, they attacked Russia, sooner or later the japs would have realized they would be next and there were widespread resistance movements.

The US made it easier to defeat the Germans. They probably could have made more of a difference (ie: saved more lives) if they had joined the war earlier.

again, German planes from german held north Africa would sink em all. Without the american intervention Germany would have held north africa.

The Germans tried to sink them all, but the Royal Navy held command of the Med sea. This significantly affected the supply to Rommel and ultimately led to his defeat and rout at El Alemain.
This battle occurred before the US forces were involved in North Africa.

Maybe the British bombers would have wiped out the German planes while they were sitting on the ground in France.
And the Spitfire was more than a match for the Luftwaffe's planes.
The British had also broken the German code, Ultra.

PS I HATE the idea of England losing to Germany!
Nein, nein....jolly old England hasn't been conquered since 1066.

They also had Churchill, a wily old coot who was more than a match for Adolf, and the Queen mum, who Hitler called "the most dangerous woman in Europe."

It woulda been one heck of a fight.

This fight took place in the summer of 1940, now known as "The Battle of Britain".
Hitler needed command of the air in order to invade Britain. Goering promised that the Luftwaffe would be able to do this. Quite simply they failed to do so and lost many of their experienced aircrew trying. Hitler called off the invasion in late September 1940 and then turned his attention to the Russian front.

Assuming that the Bombing of Pearl Harbor never happened, how do you think WWII would have ended if the U.S. had decided not to intervene :@@:

The Japanese would have had free reign to expand throughout the Pacific. Eventually all of the Far East, including Australia would have been under Japanese control. This would have simplified their supply lines and enabled an invasion of the US western coast.
With the lack of military preparedness, such an invasion would have succeeded.

In Europe the war would have gone on a lot longer, however the increasing military might of the USSR would eventually have overcome the Germans. Remember the USSR industrial base had been moved to the East of the Ural mountains. Hitler had been unable to defeat the RAF and invade Britain. However, I suspect that the USSR would have succeeded.

End result, USSR domination of all Europe and the Middle East. Japanese domination of the Far East and the USA.

This fight took place in the summer of 1940, now known as "The Battle of Britain".
Hitler needed command of the air in order to invade Britain. Goering promised that the Luftwaffe would be able to do this. Quite simply they failed to do so and lost many of their experienced aircrew trying. Hitler called off the invasion in late September 1940 and then turned his attention to the Russian front.

Yes...."......so that one thousand years from now, men will say, 'This was their finest hour.' "

Germany TRIED to conquer England. It was a no go!

End result, USSR domination of all Europe and the Middle East. Japanese domination of the Far East and the USA.

I respectfully disagree, Oldtimer.

Not only would Japan have eventually lost to the Chinese, but their ill-advised invasion of the actual United States mainland (and how would this have come about with our carriers, even after the attack at Pearl Harbor?) would have been the biggest military blunder in history next to Napoleon's jaunt to Moscow.

True, but the premise of this thread is that the US would not have fought in WWII. I infer this to mean that the US would not have built up its military forces. How could it? The government policy is not to fight and the public would not have agreed to the horrendous taxes.
Such a situation would have easily allowed Japan, now much stronger through its conquests, to control the Pacific OCean. The Japanese navy would have improved, the US navy would remain relatively the same. The US army (and thus its Air Force) would be abysmally small compared with Japanese forces. An invasion would almost certainly succeed.
Now, if the USA decided to fight prior to an invasion by Japan AND had sufficient time to muster all its power and train its personnel, the situation would be perhaps different. However, this, to me, invalidates the premise of the thread.

I see---thanks for yr explanation.
Still tho, am curious as to how the Nipponese could have pulled this off.

A simultaneous landed invasion on both coasts, with troops also coming in from both Mexico and Canada, combined with massive air strikes on our huge industrial complexes, that are on the coasts and in the Midwest?

We must be napping!!!



Where are the modern day Minutemen???:)