.....

Is that Ted Haggard's Church from Jesus Camp?

They have been having things like this around my hometown from time to time the last year or so. Actually - it's gotten so bad that there is a church on one of the main roads that is entirely set up as a tent crusade/concert deal.

They are more infamous for having numerous billboards down the road that have pointless and often embarrasingly hateful comments on them. One sign reads "God will send the gays to hell - don't be with them when he does" and one that just says "Rebuke Thee o Satan."

I have zero problem with this kind of tent revival/miracles inc. crap.

I say go for it, as long as they aren't bilking people out of life savings. It's people like Benny Hinn who should be shot.

If people get all jazzed up singing and praying and screaming and thinking they are God filled, if they are happy for a time, then all's well, that ends well.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6012/sheeppq6.jpg

Miracles have come to town or is it the Circus have come to town?

There is a field near my clinic. Most of the year it's used by local clubs as a sports field, but every now and then it's rented out for use as a political rallying ground, to set up itinerant fairs, etc.

Today, they set up a huge tent covered stage, stalls, and loudspeakers on poles. We knew what was going to happen.

First they began with rock music - loud, way too loud rock music. It wasn't plain rock either - I might have forgiven that. It was gospel rock. That was just the preliminary round, to bring in the people. Then they would bring on the heavy artillery. Which had of course been advertised round town for days:

"Gospel Rock and Evangelical Festival. Noted Evangelist and miracle worker from ..., the Rev ... ...., will speak and heal illnesses. Entry fee..."

It's hardly anything new. Just fill in the blanks.

And such is the level of dissatisfaction with ordinary life, so great is the level of disgust, that people flock to these jamborees. Where they will throw themselves into peculiar spasms and babble meaninglessly. Where the blind hear, the deaf see, and the dumb turn calisthenics.

I realise it's been a while since I opened up my Bible, but did it not have a bit where Jesus Christ refused to perform miracles for Satan, calling it blasphemy?

Anyway, a friend asked if they had some kind of cure for asthma. I told her, sure, all you have to do is have total unreasoning faith, faith and of course...

If you want to be cured of asthma, you've got to be suffering from gout or something.
so don't go:rolleyes:

jesus loves you. he died for our sins
if you have faith you can be healed.you have to believe

jesus loves you. he died for our sins
if you have faith you can be healed.you have to believe

Um, tell that to all the people that had faith and believed and are now dead. Are you going to judge them and say their faith was not strong enough?

yes if their faith would have been stronger, they would still be alive.

yes

I thought Christians weren't supposed to judge others. How can one Christian measure another Christian's faith? Isn't that supposed to be left up to God?

yes. i wasn't judging. we are to judge our own faith. god decides how much faith you have. if someone dies, they didn't have enough.god let them die. not me or a christian.

I'm tempted to start a pool on when you're going to die, useless. Is it my understanding, you'll put your money on, "never"?

no. we all die someday. i will too.

i was talking about having faith to be healed. not to live forever.

i was talking about having faith to be healed. not to live forever.

So useless I am curious. When someone has no faith and they are fully healed, how/why did that happen?

So useless I am curious. When someone has no faith and they are fully healed, how/why did that happen?
no faith in God, or no faith in their Dr & medical science?

there are documented cases of spontaneous remission of terminal cancers-who should get credit for those?

no faith in God, or no faith in their Dr & medical science?

there are documented cases of spontaneous remission of terminal cancers-who should get credit for those?

I don't know since even when I would have termed myself a Christian I never believed in divine intercession. It makes zero sense.

I do believe we have the power to heal ourselves in many cases. That has nothing to do with faith per se. Spontaneous remission happens when the immune system kicks in for whatever reason. Sometimes even because people pray for you. For me it's all about energy. Laying on of hands. reicki, acupuncture, etc... are all forms of the same thing... energy flow. The body responds...or not.

I don't know since even when I would have termed myself a Christian I never believed in divine intercession. It makes zero sense.

I do believe we have the power to heal ourselves in many cases. That has nothing to do with faith per se. Spontaneous remission happens when the immune system kicks in for whatever reason. Sometimes even because people pray for you. For me it's all about energy. Laying on of hands. reicki, acupuncture, etc... are all forms of the same thing... energy flow. The body responds...or not.
just because you have no faith in God, doesn't mean God has no faith in you.

just because you have no faith in God, doesn't mean God has no faith in you.

That is a platitude.

I have a huge faith in God and my personal relationship with him. It's all the bullshit crap that mankind has twisted into "him" that I have zero faith in.

The only way to truly know God is to seek him yourself. And to do that one has to journey inward. Most do not go there unfortunately...or perhaps fortunately for them.

or perhaps fortunately for them.

good point!

so don't go:rolleyes:

No, of course I don't go, as a matter of fact I don't go to any church (well maybe once every couple of years at the most), but isn't this place (Forums), to expose, to comment, to let others know (if they don't) what is going on around... especially if they use religion for personal profit...

Many years ago, back in my tongue-talking, demon-casting-outing days, I once went to a tent revival put on by the charismatic church I attended, as well as a few other churches. It was a hot, balmy summer evening. There was a great feeling in the air. There was no rock music. Rather, it was hymns and songs of praise. It was not so much about evangelism, but of revival. I still have fond memories of it, even though I have not been a part of that world for probably 15 years.

Many years ago, back in my tongue-talking, demon-casting-outing days, I once went to a tent revival put on by the charismatic church I attended, as well as a few other churches. It was a hot, balmy summer evening. There was a great feeling in the air. There was no rock music. Rather, it was hymns and songs of praise. It was not so much about evangelism, but of revival. I still have fond memories of it, even though I have not been a part of that world for probably 15 years.

Interesting godsandmen. I did the tongue-talking, born again, slain in the spirit stuff too. And I too have fond memories of those days of certitude in my belief that it was the "only" way.

I am glad I went there because the path we choose does ensure the spot we end up on...and where I am now is where I want to be. I respect those with that belief but I can no longer embrace it.

if you have faith of a mustard seed. that is not much.

ask anything in his name believing and you shall receive

with faith you can move mountains

yes if their faith would have been stronger, they would still be alive.


That's crazy. If that were true there would be a lot of people who never die because they have faith that God will keep them alive. Our bodies won't last forever no matter how much faith we have.

I am glad I went there because the path we choose does ensure the spot we end up on...and where I am now is where I want to be. I respect those with that belief but I can no longer embrace it.

I sometimes find it strange that so many people stay with it. Occasionally I run into pastors and christians that I knew from back then...and they are still exactly the same as they were then.

I could never go back either. My life is by no means perfect, but I'm much happier now.

Freedom always feels good.

just because you have no faith in God, doesn't mean God has no faith in you.
I'm not certain if there is a god or not. I often wonder sitting under the stars at night in an open field, adoring the beauty around me. I think there is some kind of cosmic force, if you will, that has created earth and all it's mysteries. On the other hand though, I find it hard to believe in god. But, even if there was one, lets say, I find it hard to believe he would care about us as a person. I would think his view of life is much grander then us. We are but specks of dirt on a spinning rock in the middle of a galaxy. How could he, if he is real, care for one so unimportant to the whole scheme of things?
I wonder.

As for miracles. I think there is much power in the mind. We use very little of the potential of our brains. If we were ever to tap into it, whoa! Mind over matter is real. I do believe there is some kinda of force,*I can't describe* that protects us at times in our life. Thru an instinct to do or not to do something which could cause our demise or harm.
A few instances come to my mind in my life where an outside force was in play, but I'm not sure what it was.

That's crazy. If that were true there would be a lot of people who never die because they have faith that God will keep them alive. Our bodies won't last forever no matter how much faith we have.
i did not say our bodys would last forever. i said if we have faith, as a mustard seed,we can be healed.

I'm not certain if there is a god or not. I often wonder sitting under the stars at night in an open field, adoring the beauty around me. I think there is some kind of cosmic force, if you will, that has created earth and all it's mysteries. On the other hand though, I find it hard to believe in god. But, even if there was one, lets say, I find it hard to believe he would care about us as a person. I would think his view of life is much grander then us. We are but specks of dirt on a spinning rock in the middle of a galaxy. How could he, if he is real, care for one so unimportant to the whole scheme of things?
I wonder.

As for miracles. I think there is much power in the mind. We use very little of the potential of our brains. If we were ever to tap into it, whoa! Mind over matter is real. I do believe there is some kinda of force,*I can't describe* that protects us at times in our life. Thru an instinct to do or not to do something which could cause our demise or harm.
A few instances come to my mind in my life where an outside force was in play, but I'm not sure what it was.
:rolleyes:

Interesting godsandmen. I did the tongue-talking, born again, slain in the spirit stuff too. And I too have fond memories of those days of certitude in my belief that it was the "only" way.

I am glad I went there because the path we choose does ensure the spot we end up on...and where I am now is where I want to be. I respect those with that belief but I can no longer embrace it.
i don't know what to believe anymore. i believe god loves us unconditionally. i speak in tongues and have been slain in the spirit. what changed to make you doubt it? you to godsandmen.

i don't know what to believe anymore. i believe god loves us unconditionally. i speak in tongues and have been slain in the spirit. what changed to make you doubt it? you to godsandmen.

Speaking for myself, there are many things that contributed to my leaving that world behind, but mostly it was the bible itself. I used to study the bible rabidly. I was even ordained, preached in churches, taught in a small bible college in England, and did a brief missionary stint in India where I had my first experience with casting out demons. But throughout all of that, I had many doubts.

The biggest thing was that my intuitive sense of what is truth conflicted with the bible - or at least the standard interpretation of the bible. For example, my deepest gut feelings could not accept the idea that the vast majority of the human race was going to burn for eternity in hell. In fact, my deepest gut feelings could not accept the idea of hell itself - at least as a fiery place of eternal torment. There are many areas like this in which, if I was really honest with myself, I simply didn't believe what the bible taught. Eventually I realized that I was being dishonest. I was being a hypocrite by teaching things that, deep-down, I myself didn't believe. I don't think God, whoever and whatever He (or It) is, would approve of that hypocrisy. I realized that I needed to follow my heart and my intuition wherever it led me - even if it led me away from christianity. When I finally walked away from it all, it was like the weight of the world was lifted. I was finally being true to my own inner sense, and it felt good.

And it still feels good after all these years. I'm much happier now than I was in those days.

.......been advertised round town for days.....the Rev will heal illnesses....Entry fee.....people flock to these jamborees.

ROTFL.

""No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.""

________________________

Religion is the one area of discourse in America in which people are systematically protected from the requirement to provide evidence and valid arguments in defense of their fantastic claims. And yet these beliefs regularly determine what they live for, what they will die for and—all too often—what they will kill for.

No, of course I don't go, as a matter of fact I don't go to any church (well maybe once every couple of years at the most), but isn't this place (Forums), to expose, to comment, to let others know (if they don't) what is going on around... especially if they use religion for personal profit...


Crazy stuff, what state do you live in? I have never seen anything like this. I always assume it is going on in the south...

Am I right?

i don't know what to believe anymore. i believe god loves us unconditionally. i speak in tongues and have been slain in the spirit. what changed to make you doubt it? you to godsandmen.

Well useless, this may sound strange but I don't really doubt it so much as I found it too limiting. I do believe there is a God or higher power. I do believe we are a part of him. I just do not buy the Christian version. It is too violent and makes people way too judgemental. I see those things as negative and do not believe them to be a part of a loving God.

The most loving people I know are the most open minded. That was a huge part of my rejection of Christianity as "the way".

IF there is a God, I think it more likely that he will be a combination of the world religions.

I think of him/her/it as a force from which we came and to which we will return. I think when we meditate on the best parts of ourselves and the best parts of others then we have a tiny understanding of where we came from and where we will return to.

Well said useless, I feel much the same way.

Oops, I meant Sal, not useless. I'm such an airhead.