What do you mean "perfectly Holy"?
I guess the phrase "perfectly Holy" is a tad bit redundant, but when I say it I'm covering both meanings of the Biblical term Holy. One meaning speaks of God's Greatness, His Transcendence. He is the only being whose reason for existence is contained within Himself, He is not derived, contingent, or dependant.
The other meaning speaks of His moral character and is one of his attributes. I think of it as when a person is called "holy" the first thing that generally comes to my mind is that there are some things that they don't do, but when speaking of God being Holy we are speaking, not of what He doesn't do but, what He is.
Oh, and within that explanation throw in a couple of "no mistakes".

And who is the one that decides that sin has to be punished?
Justice demands it. Justice is one of God's communicable attributes, it's what He is. If He allows wrong doing to go unpunished He would not be Just.

so by what you are saying. Woman should be stoned to death for getting pregnant after being raped? That is a sin in the old testiment? How about putting homosexuals to death? God commanded that we put homosexuals to death if they get caught sleeping together. People working on Sunday is a sin. People eating shellfish is a sin.
but then all that suddenly changes in the new testiment. Why did god change is mind? if he is perfect? Why say one thing if you are perfect and then correct yourself.

Justice? Who made him judge and jury? Just because he claims he is a god doesn't mean he is really one.

I'm quite inspired by SMW's approach that certain subjects are off topic and that to mention them is the same as making personal insults. From now on if anyone mentions any of the following without appropriate reverence I will vomit bile at you:

MC Hammer
Paris Hilton
The Back to the Future trilogy


Can you give examples of what you might consider to be bad?

I have never liked nor accepted the idea that, if a person denies God, or any god, that He somehow punishes you.


Normally this brings up a totally different debate, but I dont think God punishes you per se. All I can really say for sure, is that he sends non-believers away from him once they'er before him.

I kind of like the debate that that brings up though, so I'm replying to this post.

so by what you are saying. Woman should be stoned to death for getting pregnant after being raped? That is a sin in the old testiment? How about putting homosexuals to death? God commanded that we put homosexuals to death if they get caught sleeping together. People working on Sunday is a sin. People eating shellfish is a sin.
but then all that suddenly changes in the new testiment. Why did god change is mind? if he is perfect? Why say one thing if you are perfect and then correct yourself.

Justice? Who made him judge and jury? Just because he claims he is a god doesn't mean he is really one.


Maybe you should show us these verse' in the bible youre talking about, where it says everything you just said.
Because I've had debates with homosexuals who claim homosexuality isnt recorded as a sin in the bible.

Another thing, if it created "everything" I'd say it has the right to call itself whatever it wants to.

I created my daughter through sex does that make me a god. I create art and a eco system for ants. Does that make me a god? Sorry I do not buy it.

Yes cherry picking. You condemn homosexuals because it says so in the old testiment but against slavery which the bible old testiment says is perfectly acceptable how about selling your daughter to your neighbor? I notice you pick and choose the stuff from the old testiment to use for persecution of sinners.
If we adhere to the part in the old testiment about condemning homosexual than we need to adhere to the other stuff in the old testiment such as selling your daughters and having slaves.
Note" Jesus never spoke on homosexuals it obviously was not an important issue for him.

I created my daughter through sex does that make me a god. I create art and a eco system for ants. Does that make me a god? Sorry I do not buy it.

Yes cherry picking. You condemn homosexuals because it says so in the old testiment but against slavery which the bible old testiment says is perfectly acceptable how about selling your daughter to your neighbor? I notice you pick and choose the stuff from the old testiment to use for persecution of sinners.
If we adhere to the part in the old testiment about condemning homosexual than we need to adhere to the other stuff in the old testiment such as selling your daughters and having slaves.
Note" Jesus never spoke on homosexuals it obviously was not an important issue for him.

Thats a few things that you created, in the grand scheme of things it isnt even close to everything. Everything being that, "everything" and God having created it then why couldnt he make himself a God?

I'm not cherry picking anything, youre avoiding the debate by saying I am.
Either leave the scriptures youre talking about so it can be discussed or shut up.
You know? Put up or shut up.

Can you give examples of what you might consider to be bad?I'm not sure what you are asking, Inviolable.

I'm not sure what you are asking, Inviolable.


Examples of, what isnt, appropriate reverence when talking of MC Hammer, Paris Hilton and The Back to the Future trilogy.

Which is impossible with the Back to the Future trilogy, those movies just rocked.
The hover board, the train, the twin pines/lone pines mall... The year 1955!
The only bad thing was his mom coming on to him, that had to suck.

Examples of, what isnt, appropriate reverence when talking of MC Hammer, Paris Hilton and The Back to the Future trilogy.
"MC Hammer is a serial killer."

If someone said that I would reply: "I see you as a miserable, insecure, mentally & emotionally unbalanced person who will no doubt spend the rest of your life wallowing in the mire you've created for yourself by blasphemizing MC Hammer. Next time you find yourself in a homeless shelter, doctor's office, counselor's couch... just remember, payback is a bitch. And you're earning every second of sorrow you experience."

And, taking my inspiration from SMW, I'd be justified in doing so.

Which is impossible with the Back to the Future trilogy, those movies just rocked.Now that's an absolute truth I won't disagree with. ;)

People seem to be placing human limitations on God, expecting him to act as they would in a given situation. To those of us who believe in God, he is transcendant. I can no more know God's mind than a sheep can know the shepherd's mind, or a clay vase the mind of its creator.

Justice demands it. Justice is one of God's communicable attributes, it's what He is. If He allows wrong doing to go unpunished He would not be Just.

Two points. You are saying here that God's sense of justice matches your own. Also, you implied that God must punish sin, as though he didn't have a choice in the matter.

People seem to be placing human limitations on God, expecting him to act as they would in a given situation.The North Korean authorities should use that line when defending Kim Jung Il.

Peasant: Kim Jung Il is a bad leader and a hypocrite. He says he loves us but we are starving.
Officer: He is wise beyond your understanding. What do you know about running a country? Who are you to question the Dear Leader?

Regarding blasphemy... it's interesting to consider, The Life Application Study Bible commentary on Mark 3:28-29 has this to say, "Christians need not worry about this sin because this sin is attributing to the devil what is the work of the Holy Spirit. It reveals a heart-attitude of unbelief and unrepentance. Deliberate, ongoing rejection of the work of the Holy Spirit is blasphemy because it is rejection of God himself."

Those of you who are guilty of committing blasphemy (better, spellcheckers?) can scream until your face turns blue, but I'm not judging you... God is. (Of course, that's only if you really BELIEVE the stuff you keep using from the bible to 'prove your point'. If you BELIEVE that, you might also consider believing Mark 3:29, "But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin". )

Or DON'T. I really don't care as it doesn't affect me one way or the other. I'm not a bible-thumping fundamentalist... never have been.

But I AM a Christian. Just don't think I'll stand by and allow you to ridicule MY God without at least telling you what I think about it. And what I think continues to be that your behavior is guaranteeing you a life full of unhappiness and suffering, not to mention an eternity of paying for your sins. I didn't will that on you... you're bringing it on yourself.

So to Sister Warrior -- just quit whining about how hard life's been on you. You're earning your own sorrows and will continue to do so unless you change your God-hating ways.

That's MY opinion. Deal with it.

SMW

I was watching Joyce Meyers this morning and she was discussing our personalities and how they effect our lives. We can either have our personalities be led by the holy spirit and see blessings and good come to us. Or we can let ourselves lead our personalites and be prepared to face suffering.

And those of us who have LIVED life know this to be true. You dont have to believe in God to know that if you do good you get good...do bad and be ready to face what is coming to you. Doesn't take a genius to figure any of this logic out...nor a Christian.

Well said, Musiq. Even most non-religious philosophical groups believe in some version of kharma or 'what goes around comes around'. Certainly not anything new, is it?

SMW

do good you get good...do bad and be ready to face what is coming to you.Do you consider the people of Darfur to be responsible for what is currently coming to them?

Well said, Musiq. Even most non-religious philosophical groups believe in some version of kharma or 'what goes around comes around'. Certainly not anything new, is it?

SMW


Not at all.

Do you consider the people of Darfur to be responsible for what is currently coming to them?


Of course I was waiting on this one to come along. Bad things happen. God is good but life aint always a bowl of cherries. In fact good people will experience heartache, failure and illness. But I guarantee that their journey through their sorrows will be less stressful and sorrowful if they have faith and God by their side.

Don't believe me? Try being God's friend for a while. See what happens.

???

"if you do good you get good...do bad and be ready to face what is coming to you."

"good people will experience heartache, failure and illness."


You just went full circle and contradicted yourself.

Which is it? If you are good you get good or bad things happen to good people? It can't be both.

Here is a hint - Karma is not a part of Christian theology.

Try being God's friend for a while. See what happens.Not the terrible rape, pilliage and murder that the believers in Darfur suffer, I hope.

Way to pick at straws, Dharma. Nobody promised anybody a life without problems... not even God. But, if you walk thru a bad neighborhood late at night, you're risking your life more than you would if you stayed away from such dangers.

Same way with going to all the trouble to find a picture of Jesus holding a gun to use as your 'symbol' -- or making declarations that God is a serial killer.

Life has enough ups and downs without sticking one's neck out and challenging God to "...hurt me if you don't like how I act. Come on, I DARE YOU!"

You might just lose that dare.

???



You just went full circle and contradicted yourself.

Which is it? If you are good you get good or bad things happen to good people? It can't be both.


LMAO

This board is actually quite funny to me.

Yes bad things happen to good people and are you ready for this? Good things happen to bad people too. How great is that????

BUT....you can bet that good people will be blessed far more then bad people. That's just the way it goes. I doubt you are 5 years old and have lived a little bit to realize I'm not wrong in my statement and I'm sure you got my point but wished to further argue. Yes maybe I didn't word it to your liking and go into the detail you were fishing for. But I bet your hard to please on other levels...going by your demanding of answers and explanations. So I won't try any further because you can lead a man to the bedroom but you can't make him good in bed.

:thumbs:

Yes bad things happen to good people and are you ready for this? Good things happen to bad people too. How great is that????

BUT....you can bet that good people will be blessed far more then bad people. That's just the way it goes.

ROFLMFAO!!!!

How wonderfully confused and naive! I love it!
:thumbs:

not twisted enough obviously to follow a religion that has a god that mass murders on a world wide proportion.
You can feel sorry for me all you want. I am quite happy where I am at and my kids will grow up without being brainwashed my some 2,000 year old book written a culture that no longer exist. Wont be giving up logic like evolution for superstition.

I am in counseling thank you but not because I believe god is a the worst serial killer in the world but because I have PTSD.

A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell.
C. S. Lewis

People seem to be placing human limitations on God, expecting him to act as they would in a given situation. To those of us who believe in God, he is transcendant. I can no more know God's mind than a sheep can know the shepherd's mind, or a clay vase the mind of its creator.


Awesome example, frogger.

ROFLMFAO!!!!

How wonderfully confused and naive! I love it!
:thumbs:


Well then I'll continue to live the way I do and be confused and naive because it's gotten me pretty far.

what I do question though is how far your laughing will get you....at least in the end.

Don't you know, Musiq? Dharma is a church-going Christian who bragged to me about how much charity work he does thru his church.

Never argue with a hypocrite. They change colors faster than a chameleon.

THIS is the post that started this discussion. If you can work your way thru the misspellings, you'll find what I believe are the rantings of a very twisted individual.

Value of love??God never taught the value of love ,Jesus did! God was a crazed seriel killer so jealous that he demands your worship and praise. He has murdered more people than any serial killer in the world.
God did not teach love. God is vengeful, jeoulous and abusive.
Jesus who "claimed" he was the son of god taught love, compassion and tolerance. He "claimed god was a loving god" which is totally inconsistant with the old testiment.
There is no proof that Jesus was the son of god. There was no DNA test to see if his blood was some how different than ours and his miricles were never taped.

and if Christians actually followed Jesus in practicing love, compassion and tolerance I wouldn't dislike most of them but you got the conservative republicans caring more about not paying taxes than caring about the poor and hungry and homless completely ignoring the bible that said "turn no man away that is hungry" ect and so on. "turn the other cheek" then you go the evangalist trying to convert everyone and telling them they will burn in hell forever and telling everyone else how to live thier lives.
Jesus was not god and if he was god , god has a personality disorder to go from vengeful, hateful and jealous to the persona of Jesus of compassion, tolerance and understanding.

Don't you know, Musiq? Dharma is a church-going Christian who bragged to me about how much charity work he does thru his church.

Never argue with a hypocrite. They change colors faster than a chameleon.


:rolleyes:

I can no more know God's mind than a sheep can know the shepherd's mind, or a clay vase the mind of its creator.Awesome example, frogger.A more accurate analogy is we can no more know God's mind than a clay vase can know the mind of non-clay omnivase that some other clay vase says made everything.

THIS is the post that started this discussion. If you can work your way thru the misspellings, you'll find what I believe are the rantings of a very twisted individual.


HUH? I've never known anyone who thought God as a serial killer.

Regarding blasphemy... it's interesting to consider, The Life Application Study Bible commentary on Mark 3:28-29 has this to say, "Christians need not worry about this sin because this sin is attributing to the devil what is the work of the Holy Spirit. It reveals a heart-attitude of unbelief and unrepentance. Deliberate, ongoing rejection of the work of the Holy Spirit is blasphemy because it is rejection of God himself."

Those of you who are guilty of committing blasphemy (better, spellcheckers?) can scream until your face turns blue, but I'm not judging you... God is. (Of course, that's only if you really BELIEVE the stuff you keep using from the bible to 'prove your point'. If you BELIEVE that, you might also consider believing Mark 3:29, "But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin". )

Or DON'T. I really don't care as it doesn't affect me one way or the other. I'm not a bible-thumping fundamentalist... never have been.

But I AM a Christian. Just don't think I'll stand by and allow you to ridicule MY God without at least telling you what I think about it. And what I think continues to be that your behavior is guaranteeing you a life full of unhappiness and suffering, not to mention an eternity of paying for your sins. I didn't will that on you... you're bringing it on yourself.

So to Sister Warrior -- just quit whining about how hard life's been on you. You're earning your own sorrows and will continue to do so unless you change your God-hating ways.

That's MY opinion. Deal with it.

SMW

Ok you are not a christian you are an extremist? You do not follow Jesus's path. You are verbally abusive with just about every post you make which Jesus is clearly against.

You think you are a christian but you do not know what a christian is?

I do not whine about life. I simply explain why I have learned he does not exist.
How can something judge me that does not exist.
I don't hate god. How do you hate something that does not exist.

You can have your opinion all you want but it doesn't make you a better person or lets you get into the gates of heaven.
You are an evil spiteful person who think they are selfrightous. You are proud of your behavior of causing others pain and calling them things like twisted, sick, hoping their life is full of suffering because of the way they believe. If I interpreted the bible right those are things that come out of satans mouth.

Perhaps you are a demon in christians clothing. It has happened many times before.

But that is just my humble opinion.:hula:

Don't you know, Musiq? Dharma is a church-going Christian who bragged to me about how much charity work he does thru his church.

Never argue with a hypocrite. They change colors faster than a chameleon.


Look a facade christian calling out another christian..

ROFLMAO

honey you are not a christian!! Try reading Jesus's text again. Maybe you'll eventually get it that Christians don't go around verbally assulting people or telling people they suffer because they don't believe in god.

THIS is the post that started this discussion. If you can work your way thru the misspellings, you'll find what I believe are the rantings of a very twisted individual.


Takes one to know one honey.

And you would know that because... what? You read the bible?

Just like you say you're not an atheist, you're an agnostic. I don't claim to be a Christian, but I do believe in God.

Which leaves me with my God-given ability to tell you exactly what I think of you.

And I believe I have.

Ok you are not a christian you are an extremist? You do not follow Jesus's path. You are verbally abusive with just about every post you make which Jesus is clearly against.

You think you are a christian but you do not know what a christian is?

I do not whine about life. I simply explain why I have learned he does not exist.
How can something judge me that does not exist.
I don't hate god. How do you hate something that does not exist.

You can have your opinion all you want but it doesn't make you a better person or lets you get into the gates of heaven.
You are an evil spiteful person who think they are selfrightous. You are proud of your behavior of causing others pain and calling them things like twisted, sick, hoping their life is full of suffering because of the way they believe. If I interpreted the bible right those are things that come out of satans mouth.

Perhaps you are a demon in christians clothing. It has happened many times before.

But that is just my humble opinion.:hula:


I thought you said God was a serial killer? And now you say you dont believe He exists at all. So which is it...He exists as a serial killer or He doesn't exist at all?

:confused:

And I'm not presenting a blow at you..it's an honest question so you dont have to rant and go on about how horrible I am for questioning what it is you truly believe.

Like I said before, TS... I couldn't care less what you believe in. All I have to judge you by is what you say. If you don't like how you're being judged, STFU.

Or.... keep up your verbal attack on God and I'll keep up my verbal attack on YOU.

Whatever you choose to do is fine with me, but please quit whining if you decide to continue your assault because I promise you... I won't let up.

SMW

I thought you said God was a serial killer? And now you say you dont believe He exists at all. So which is it...He exists as a serial killer or He doesn't exist at all?

:confused:

And I'm not presenting a blow at you..it's an honest question so you dont have to rant and go on about how horrible I am for questioning what it is you truly believe.

The Judeo Christian version of god is a serial killer in my eyes yes. However I do not believe this god exist if he did exist I still would not follow him because he is an asshole.

Like I said before, TS... I couldn't care less what you believe in. All I have to judge you by is what you say. If you don't like how you're being judged, STFU.

Or.... keep up your verbal attack on God and I'll keep up my verbal attack on YOU.

Whatever you choose to do is fine with me, but please quit whining if you decide to continue your assault because I promise you... I won't let up.

SMW

Oh yes the supreme being of the Universe needs a peon human being to defend him.

ROFLMAO!!!

Oh yes the supreme being of the Universe needs a peon human being to defend him.

ROFLMAO!!!
Let's just say I feel it's my DUTY, as a God-fearing woman.

Like I said before, TS... I couldn't care less what you believe in. All I have to judge you by is what you say. If you don't like how you're being judged, STFU.

Or.... keep up your verbal attack on God and I'll keep up my verbal attack on YOU.

Whatever you choose to do is fine with me, but please quit whining if you decide to continue your assault because I promise you... I won't let up.

SMW

BRING IT ON!!! but be aware you will get banned.

Let's just say I feel it's my DUTY, as a God-fearing woman.

OH bullshit you are just looking for a reason to verbally abuse people because you are a spiteful hateful person.

Please you god does not need protection from you or to defend his name.

JESUS...:rolleyes:

BRING IT ON!!! but be aware you will get banned.
Not likely... but I'd say being banned from Allforums wouldn't hold a candle to being banned from eternal life.

Please prove to me of enternal life? Has anyone ever came back from the dead to tell you this place existed?
Are you saying that if you do not defend gods name he will burn you in hell?? I thought that if you accept Jesus in your heart and repent your sins you go to heaven. I understand you can't say anything about god but why can't anyone else?? You will go to hell for letting me say bad things about god??
What what I do effect your eternal soul? If that existed?

Oh, my twisted sister. It's not MY eternal soul that I have questions about. I'm simply trying to do my duty to save YOURS.

don't bother. Go find someone else's soul to worry about. I lost my soul a long time ago. I have accepted my fate. I have no problem with where I am going.
if you are wanting to save souls go to the rich corrupted preachers in mega christian churches.

The Judeo Christian version of god is a serial killer in my eyes yes. However I do not believe this god exist if he did exist I still would not follow him because he is an asshole.

But like you said yourself "you can't hate something that doesn't exist"...therefore if God doesn't exist there is no way He can be a serial killer...or an asshole as you put it.

So if you dont believe in Him then there shouldn't be an argument from you other then whether or not He exists or not. Otherwise you are stating you believe He in fact does exist because he is capable of being a serial killer.

don't bother. Go find someone else's soul to worry about. I lost my soul a long time ago. I have accepted my fate. I have no problem with where I am going.
if you are wanting to save souls go to the rich corrupted preachers in mega christian churches.
Thanks for the advice, but I'd rather work on you.

I'll make you a deal, though. Stop bashing God and I won't say a word about the things you post on other subjects. Although, Lord knows, that will be a lofty goal for me to attain.

I do not at this time believes he exist but who knows he could be real. I am not all knowing? I could be wrong that he does not exist. Until further proof I say he does not exist but on the chance that he might because I am human and could be wrong. I still would not follow him. He can smite me all he wants or punish me all he wants I will not follow him anywhere.
Does that help?

Thanks for the advice, but I'd rather work on you.

I'll make you a deal, though. Stop bashing God and I won't say a word about the things you post on other subjects. Although, Lord knows, that will be a lofty goal for me to attain.

Deal. You are right that it might hurt peoples feelings to call god a serial killer. I am being harsh on him if he existed. I am not trying to hurt anyones feelings I am just frustrated people still follow him after he did the things that he did in the old testiment. I do not understand it and perhaps never will.

You can disagree with me in my other posts? I do not have a problem with disagreeing just personal attacks.

if God doesn't exist there is no way He can be a serial killer...or an asshole as you put it.I don't see your problem. Darth Vader is a murderer and a tyrant but he doesn't exist.

It seems some who post here have a conception of the Christian God that is not in line with what Christians believe is the nature of God.

People keep asking why bad things happen to good people. Why are some poor? Why are the people of Darfur being treated as they are?

Christians believe God created man with the capacity for free will. This means free will to do good and free will to do evil. If man did not have free will he would be no more than a moving manikin, someone devoid of a spirit.

While God has given us free will he has also given us a set of rules to abide by and has sent his son to die in expiation for our sins.

Yes, bad things happen to good people but that is because of us not because of God.

God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, to which Rev Pat Robertson agreed, quoted from John F Harris, "God Gave US 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says," The Washington Post (September 14, 2001)

AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.
-- Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

and people sent him money for saying all that crap
losers

The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, Sermon, July 4, 1976

Grown men should not be having sex with prostitutes unless they are married to them.
-- Jerry Falwell, on CNN's Crossfire, May 17, 1997

Why are the people of Darfur being treated as they are?That was me. But to be clear it was in response to the general statement "good people get good, bad people get what's coming" rather than any Christian-specific claim.

It seems some who post here have a conception of the Christian God that is not in line with what Christians believe is the nature of God.You and others argued earlier than humans can not know "the nature of god". According to your own argument surely non-believers are correct to consider Christian beliefs about "the nature of god" to be incoherent.

It seems some who post here have a conception of the Christian God that is not in line with what Christians believe is the nature of God.

People keep asking why bad things happen to good people. Why are some poor? Why are the people of Darfur being treated as they are?

Christians believe God created man with the capacity for free will. This means free will to do good and free will to do evil. If man did not have free will he would be no more than a moving manikin, someone devoid of a spirit.

While God has given us free will he has also given us a set of rules to abide by and has sent his son to die in expiation for our sins.

Yes, bad things happen to good people but that is because of us not because of God.
You summed it up very well, Frogger. Thx for adding your 2 cents worth.

That was me. But to be clear it was in response to the general statement "good people get good, bad people get what's coming" rather than any Christian-specific claim.

You and others argued earlier than humans can not know "the nature of god". According to your own argument surely non-believers are correct to consider Christian beliefs about "the nature of god" to be incoherent.

I didn't say we KNOW the nature of God. I said what we BELIEVE is the nature of God. We do not have the capacity to know the true nature of God.

In Exodus God says to Moses in response to his question of what to call God, "I am that I am." God is telling Moses, you cannot conceive of all that I am and you should simply accept that, "I am that I am."

I do not at this time believes he exist but who knows he could be real. I am not all knowing? I could be wrong that he does not exist. Until further proof I say he does not exist but on the chance that he might because I am human and could be wrong. I still would not follow him. He can smite me all he wants or punish me all he wants I will not follow him anywhere.
Does that help?


A little.

This is what I'm getting from you.....You dont really know what you believe because you have no proof of the existance or the non existance of God. You are torn in the decision on whether you feel he exists or not.

If I am correct in that... shouldn't you FIRST decide whether He truly exists or not before placing judgement on Him?

I dont know everything and I'll admit that but it just seems more logical to not place judgement on something you dont know.

just my opinion....

I place judement of what I do know about the old testiment of the Judeo Christian god. When someone claims he is a loving and kind god I dispute that because in the old testiment he obviously was not a loving and kind god.

If someone is going to judge me for not believing then I have the right to judge what they do believe?

Tit for tat.

That was me. But to be clear it was in response to the general statement "good people get good, bad people get what's coming" rather than any Christian-specific claim.

You and others argued earlier than humans can not know "the nature of god". According to your own argument surely non-believers are correct to consider Christian beliefs about "the nature of god" to be incoherent.
I don't think anybody here has a problem with people questioning whether or not there is enough EVIDENCE to make believing in God worthwhile or not. I have lots of questions about things in the bible myself... and hope to have all those questions answered someday. But in the meantime, I refuse to believe that LIFE is just a coming together of related molecules that produce something as amazing as a human being. I believe there is a HIGHER POWER who went to great lengths thousands of years ago to give us a guidebook about what's right and what's wrong.

If I'm wrong, silly me. If you're wrong, poor you.

In the meantime, please respect those of us who believe enough to refrain from calling God an asshole. (I know... that wasn't YOU -- sucks to get lumped together with all kinds, doesn't it?)

SMW

I place judement of what I do know about the old testiment of the Judeo Christian god. When someone claims he is a loving and kind god I dispute that because in the old testiment he obviously was not a loving and kind god.

If someone is going to judge me for not believing then I have the right to judge what they do believe?

Tit for tat.


Ok you said if someone is going to judge you for not believing.....what exact do you not believe....because I thought you were confused on that subject?? Or are you meaning "if someone judges you on you not believing God is a loving God...which of whom you dont know exists or not??

Sorry if I come off like a jerk it just doesn't seem logical to offer offensive claims about someone you dont even know exists or not. Because really if you feel He doesn't exist then you would disregard the Bible altogether because nothing in there would even be true...even the "mean parts about God". So personally I feel you think God does exist but you just see Him as a serial killer.

I didn't say we KNOW the nature of God. I said what we BELIEVE is the nature of God. We do not have the capacity to know the true nature of God.Whether knowing or believing, it seems Christians talk about the nature of god a lot and yet cry "god is incomprehensible" if anyone joins in or suggests flaws in their descriptions.

(feel free to disbelieve this as well)

God gave Moses the Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai to serve as principles of moral behavior for the human race. The Ten Commandments of God are the foundation of the moral code and legal system of justice for Western Christian civilization.

The architecture of the U. S. Supreme Court building reflects this biblical foundation. At the center of the sculpture over the east portico of the Supreme Court Building, there is the image of Moses holding the two tablets of the Ten Commandments; these are also engraved over the chair of the Chief Justice and on the bronze doors of the Supreme Court.

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF GOD

I am the Lord thy God, who have brought thee out of the land of Egypt (Mizrahim), out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt not have any other gods besides me
Thou shalt not make for thyself any graven image
(carved idol) or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; thou shalt not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, punishing the iniquities of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those that hate me; but showing mercy to thousands of generations of those that love me, and keep my commandments.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain ;
for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that takes his name in vain.

Remember to keep holy the sabbath day ;
six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is a sabbath, that is, the rest of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not do any work therein, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy ox, nor thy ass, nor any of thy beasts, nor the stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest, even as thyself. Remember that thou also didst serve in Egypt, and the Lord thy God brought thee out from thence with a strong hand, and a stretched out arm. Therefore hath he commanded thee that thou shouldst observe the sabbath day.

Honour thy father and mother
that thy days be long in the land which the Lord gives thee.

Thou shalt not kill.

Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Thou shalt not steal.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's (goods)
house or fields, nor his male or female slaves, nor his ox or ass, or anything that belongs to him.

So, Blob... you're holding out for the DNA test and video too, are ya?

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

Seriously... that's where FAITH comes in. People who believe in God have FAITH that he/she exists. Those with strong faith have no need for proof.

I refuse to believe that LIFE is just a coming together of related molecules that produce something as amazing as a human being. I believe there is a HIGHER POWER who went to great lengths thousands of years ago to give us a guidebook about what's right and what's wrong.So it's molecules or the Christian god. What a bleak choice.
In the meantime, please respect those of us who believe enough to refrain from calling God an asshole. (I know... that wasn't YOU)Why should your beliefs be my rules? I have no similar censorship to impose on you.

So it's molecules or the Christian god. What a bleak choice.
Why should your beliefs be my rules? I have no similar censorship to impose on you.


Let's just look at it like this... I dont know your mother so I will not call her a bitch. You don't know my God so don't call Him an asshole.

It's a respect thing.

So, Blob... you're holding out for the DNA test and video too, are ya?

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

Seriously... that's where FAITH comes in. People who believe in God have FAITH that he/she exists. Those with strong faith have no need for proof.I'm not sure what this is in reference to. I've not mentioned proof, evidence or faith in this thread.

Ok you said if someone is going to judge you for not believing.....what exact do you not believe....because I thought you were confused on that subject?? Or are you meaning "if someone judges you on you not believing God is a loving God...which of whom you dont know exists or not??

Sorry if I come off like a jerk it just doesn't seem logical to offer offensive claims about someone you dont even know exists or not. Because really if you feel He doesn't exist then you would disregard the Bible altogether because nothing in there would even be true...even the "mean parts about God". So personally I feel you think God does exist but you just see Him as a serial killer.

I do not believe in the Judeo Christain god. I am not confused about the situation. I clearly state I do not believe in thier god but if thier god existed he would be a jerk and I would not follow him. What is so fucking hard to understand??

People are following this dude around blindly and I am challenging that. I say why follow someone around blindly that commits atrocities on humanity?

I agree with another poster here just because Darth Vader does not exist doesn't mean his character is not evil??

What about that do you not understand?

I disagree with the made up character of god as I would disagree about the way Darth Vader lived his life. We judge things all the time that is not part of reality?

Sorry to confuse you further, Blob. The title of this thread is WHAT ABOUT THAT EVIDENCE. Just thought I'd get back to the original subject.

I dont know your mother so I will not call her a bitch. You don't know my God so don't call Him an asshole.I will say whatever I want about the famous whether it is Bill Gates, Darth Vader or the Christian god. If you confuse that with direct personal insults that's not really my problem.

PS: It wasn't me that called god an asshole.

I do not believe in the Judeo Christain god. I am not confused about the situation. I clearly state I do not believe in thier god but if thier god existed he would be a jerk and I would not follow him. What is so fucking hard to understand??

People are following this dude around blindly and I am challenging that. I say why follow someone around blindly that commits atrocities on humanity?

I agree with another poster here just because Darth Vader does not exist doesn't mean his character is not evil??

What about that do you not understand?

I disagree with the made up character of god as I would disagree about the way Darth Vader lived his life. We judge things all the time that is not part of reality?


What I dont understand is not believing something exists but yet believing everything this made up person did was wrong. If you dont think he exists then nothing that made up person did would be wrong or right because he never existed in the first place!!!!!


Same goes for Darth Vader...he didn't do anything bad in his life because he didn't exist.

Get it?

No didn't think so.

I will say whatever I want about the famous whether it is Bill Gates, Darth Vader or the Christian god. If you confuse that with direct personal insults that's not really my problem.

PS: It wasn't me that called god an asshole.


yes i know you didn't call him an asshole

And i do find it a personal insult when someone calls God an asshole because I feel it's an attack on me because I am a child of God.

yes i know you didn't call him an asshole

And i do find it a personal insult when someone calls God an asshole because I feel it's an attack on me because I am a child of God.
I consider myself a child of God as well, Musiq. Good point.

IF people started going around worshiping darth vador people would have a problem with it because of the way darth vador acts whether he is real or not. Criticizing darth vader is an attempt to show people they are following the guy for the wrong reasons even if he did not exist.

I am questioning why people follow a guy who commited mass murders of humans? It doesn't matter if he is real to me he is real to them and I am trying to understand why he can murder humans and mass murder people in floods and people still follow him??

I am trying to look at it from thier perspective that to them he is real so I use what he did to man kind in the old testiment and ask why they follow him?

look my mom is a bitch she did cruel things to me as a child and exposed me to pediphiles. Just because she is my mom does not aquits her of being a bitch. There is proof that god murdered people unjustly. Just because he is your god does not make him immune of being an asshole.
Just because he is your father does not disqualify him from being an asshole to humanity.

The title of this thread is WHAT ABOUT THAT EVIDENCE. Just thought I'd get back to the original subject.By putting words in my mouth?

Darth Vader...he didn't do anything bad in his lifeI take issue with that. He was second in command of a military regime that terrorised an entire galaxy for a decade or two.

Geesh, no wonder you have such a hard time reading the bible... you seem to be having difficulty following this discussion!

I didn't put anything in your mouth, dear. Nor will I.

IF people started going around worshiping darth vador people would have a problem with it because of the way darth vador acts whether he is real or not. Criticizing darth vader is an attempt to show people they are following the guy for the wrong reasons even if he did not exist.

I am questioning why people follow a guy who commited mass murders of humans? It doesn't matter if he is real to me he is real to them and I am trying to understand why he can murder humans and mass murder people in floods and people still follow him??

I am trying to look at it from thier perspective that to them he is real so I use what he did to man kind in the old testiment and ask why they follow him?


I get that but I just dont see the point in placing judgement on people you dont feel exist in the first place. I mean why not devote some time to something you do believe exists...you know...like presence of your brain. Because I think you're lacking something up there gf.

look my mom is a bitch she did cruel things to me as a child and exposed me to pediphiles. Just because she is my mom does not aquits her of being a bitch. There is proof that god murdered people unjustly. Just because he is your god does not make him immune of being an asshole.
Just because he is your father does not disqualify him from being an asshole to humanity.


Again you say there is proof that God is an asshole...therefore if there is proof of it then He must exist right???

I take issue with that. He was second in command of a military regime that terrorised an entire galaxy for a decade or two.


Take the blinders off will ya and actually READ what is being posted.

I didn't put anything in your mouth, dear. Nor will I.Your post was addressed as a response to me and was totally unconnected to anything I have said.

Raping And Killing
"Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isaiah 13:15-16)

ravished means rapping.

This is not being an asshole??
How about this one?

"The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance. He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked." (Psalms 58:10)

How many people did God kill in the Bible?
It's impossible to say for sure, but plently. How many did God drown in the flood or burn to death in Sodom and Gomorrah? How many first-born Egyptians did he kill? There's just no way to count them all.

But sometimes the Bible tells us exactly how many were killed by God. Here's a list of those that I can find. (If you find any that I've missed, let me know and I'll add them to the list.)

So far I come up with a total of 2,270,365 (not inlcuding, at least in some cases, women and children). SAB, Brick Testament Number Killed Cummulative Total
Lot's wife for looking back Gen.19:26, BT 1 1

Er who was "wicked in the sight of the Lord" Gen.38:7, BT 1 2

Onan for spilling his seed Gen.38:10, BT 1 3

For dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf Ex.32:27-28, 35, BT 3000 3003

Aaron's sons for offering strange fire before the Lord Lev.10:1-3, Num.3:4, 26:61, BT 2 3005

A blasphemer Lev.24:10-23, BT 1 3006

A man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath Num.15:32-36, BT 1 3007

Korah, Dathan, and Abiram (and their families) Num.16:27, BT 12+ 3019+

Burned to death for offering incense Num.16:35, 26:10, BT 250 3269+

For complaining Num.16:49, BT 14,700 17,969+

For "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab" Num.25:9, BT 24,000 41,969+

Midianite massacre (32,000 virgins were kept alive) Num.31:1-35, BT 90,000+ 131,969+

God tells Joshua to stoned to death Achan (and his family) for taking the accursed thing. Joshua 7:10-12, 24-26, BT 5+ 131,974+

God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone).
Joshua 8:1-25, BT 12,000 143,974+

Joshua kills 5 kings and hangs their dead bodies on trees Joshua 10:24-26, BT 5 143,979+

God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites Judges 1:4, BT 10,000 153,979+

Ehud delivers a message from God: a knife into the king's belly Jg.3:15-22, BT 1 153,980+

God delivered Moabites Jg.3:28-29, BT 10,000 163,980+

God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other. Jg.7:2-22, 8:10, BT 120,000 283,980+

The Spirit of the Lord comes on Samson Jg.14:19, BT 30 284,010+

The Spirit of the Lord comes mightily on Samson Jg.15:14-15, BT 1000 285,010+

Samson's God-assisted act of terrorism Jg.16:27-30, BT 3000 288,010+

"The Lord smote Benjamin" Jg.20:35-37, BT 25,100 313,110+

More Benjamites Jg.20:44-46 25,000 338,110+

For looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam.6:19 50,070 388,180+

God delivered Philistines 1 Sam.14:12 20 388,200+

Samuel (at God's command) hacks Agag to death 1 Sam.15:32-33 1 388,201+
"The Lord smote Nabal." 1 Sam.25:38 1 388,202+
Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling 2 Sam.6:6-7, 1 Chr.13:9-10 1 388,203+

David and Bathsheba's baby boy 2 Sam.12:14-18 1 388,204+


Seven sons of Saul hung up before the Lord 2 Sam.21:6-9 7 388,211+

From plague as punishment for David's census (men only; probably 200,000 if including women and children) 2 Sam.24:13, 1 Chr.21:7 70,000+ 458,211+

A prophet for believing another prophet's lie 1 Kg.13:1-24 1 458,212+

God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites' hands 1 Kg.20:28-29 100,000 558,212+

God makes a wall fall on Syrian soldiers 1 Kg.20:30 27,000 585,212+

God sent a lion to eat a man for not killing a prophet 1 Kg.20:35-36 1 585,213+

Ahaziah is killed for talking to the wrong god. 2 Kg.1:2-4, 17, 2 Chr.22:7-9 1 585,214+

Burned to death by God 2 Kg.1:9-12 102 585,316+

God sends two bears to kill children for making fun of Elisha's bald head 2 Kg.2:23-24 42 585,348+


Trampled to death for disbelieving Elijah 2 Kg.7:17-20 1 585,349+

Jezebel 2 Kg.9:33-37 1 585,360+

God sent lions to kill "some" foreigners 2 Kg.17:25-26 3+ 585,363+

Sleeping Assyrian soldiers 2 Kg.19:35, 2 Chr.32:21, Is.37:36 185,000 770,363+
Saul 1 Chr.10:14 1 770,364+

God delivers Israel into the hands of Judah 2 Chr.13:15-17 500,000 1,270,364+
Jeroboam 2 Chr.13:20 1 1,270,365+

"The Lord smote the Ethiopians." 2 Chr.14:9-14 1,000,000 2,270,365+

God kills Jehoram by making his bowels fall out 2 Chr.21:14-19 1 2,270,366+

Ezekiel's wife Ezek.24:15-18 1 2,270,367+

Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:1-10 2 2,270,369+
Herod


I stand by the fact that this behavior is that of an asshole

Let me talk real slow, so you'll follow me...

Frogger said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogger
I didn't say we KNOW the nature of God. I said what we BELIEVE is the nature of God. We do not have the capacity to know the true nature of God.

Then you said...

Originally posted by Blob
Whether knowing or believing, it seems Christians talk about the nature of god a lot and yet cry "god is incomprehensible" if anyone joins in or suggests flaws in their descriptions.

Then I said something to you like... that's what FAITH is all about. Believing in something incomprehensible.

Then you went off on Darth Vader.

Got it now? Good.

Raping And Killing
"Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isaiah 13:15-16)

ravished means rapping.

This is not being an asshole??
How about this one?

"The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance. He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked." (Psalms 58:10)

How many people did God kill in the Bible?
It's impossible to say for sure, but plently. How many did God drown in the flood or burn to death in Sodom and Gomorrah? How many first-born Egyptians did he kill? There's just no way to count them all.

But sometimes the Bible tells us exactly how many were killed by God. Here's a list of those that I can find. (If you find any that I've missed, let me know and I'll add them to the list.)

So far I come up with a total of 2,270,365 (not inlcuding, at least in some cases, women and children). SAB, Brick Testament Number Killed Cummulative Total
Lot's wife for looking back Gen.19:26, BT 1 1

Er who was "wicked in the sight of the Lord" Gen.38:7, BT 1 2

Onan for spilling his seed Gen.38:10, BT 1 3

For dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf Ex.32:27-28, 35, BT 3000 3003

Aaron's sons for offering strange fire before the Lord Lev.10:1-3, Num.3:4, 26:61, BT 2 3005

A blasphemer Lev.24:10-23, BT 1 3006

A man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath Num.15:32-36, BT 1 3007

Korah, Dathan, and Abiram (and their families) Num.16:27, BT 12+ 3019+

Burned to death for offering incense Num.16:35, 26:10, BT 250 3269+

For complaining Num.16:49, BT 14,700 17,969+

For "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab" Num.25:9, BT 24,000 41,969+

Midianite massacre (32,000 virgins were kept alive) Num.31:1-35, BT 90,000+ 131,969+

God tells Joshua to stoned to death Achan (and his family) for taking the accursed thing. Joshua 7:10-12, 24-26, BT 5+ 131,974+

God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone).
Joshua 8:1-25, BT 12,000 143,974+

Joshua kills 5 kings and hangs their dead bodies on trees Joshua 10:24-26, BT 5 143,979+

God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites Judges 1:4, BT 10,000 153,979+

Ehud delivers a message from God: a knife into the king's belly Jg.3:15-22, BT 1 153,980+

God delivered Moabites Jg.3:28-29, BT 10,000 163,980+

God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other. Jg.7:2-22, 8:10, BT 120,000 283,980+

The Spirit of the Lord comes on Samson Jg.14:19, BT 30 284,010+

The Spirit of the Lord comes mightily on Samson Jg.15:14-15, BT 1000 285,010+

Samson's God-assisted act of terrorism Jg.16:27-30, BT 3000 288,010+

"The Lord smote Benjamin" Jg.20:35-37, BT 25,100 313,110+

More Benjamites Jg.20:44-46 25,000 338,110+

For looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam.6:19 50,070 388,180+

God delivered Philistines 1 Sam.14:12 20 388,200+

Samuel (at God's command) hacks Agag to death 1 Sam.15:32-33 1 388,201+
"The Lord smote Nabal." 1 Sam.25:38 1 388,202+
Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling 2 Sam.6:6-7, 1 Chr.13:9-10 1 388,203+

David and Bathsheba's baby boy 2 Sam.12:14-18 1 388,204+


Seven sons of Saul hung up before the Lord 2 Sam.21:6-9 7 388,211+

From plague as punishment for David's census (men only; probably 200,000 if including women and children) 2 Sam.24:13, 1 Chr.21:7 70,000+ 458,211+

A prophet for believing another prophet's lie 1 Kg.13:1-24 1 458,212+

God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites' hands 1 Kg.20:28-29 100,000 558,212+

God makes a wall fall on Syrian soldiers 1 Kg.20:30 27,000 585,212+

God sent a lion to eat a man for not killing a prophet 1 Kg.20:35-36 1 585,213+

Ahaziah is killed for talking to the wrong god. 2 Kg.1:2-4, 17, 2 Chr.22:7-9 1 585,214+

Burned to death by God 2 Kg.1:9-12 102 585,316+

God sends two bears to kill children for making fun of Elisha's bald head 2 Kg.2:23-24 42 585,348+


Trampled to death for disbelieving Elijah 2 Kg.7:17-20 1 585,349+

Jezebel 2 Kg.9:33-37 1 585,360+

God sent lions to kill "some" foreigners 2 Kg.17:25-26 3+ 585,363+

Sleeping Assyrian soldiers 2 Kg.19:35, 2 Chr.32:21, Is.37:36 185,000 770,363+
Saul 1 Chr.10:14 1 770,364+

God delivers Israel into the hands of Judah 2 Chr.13:15-17 500,000 1,270,364+
Jeroboam 2 Chr.13:20 1 1,270,365+

"The Lord smote the Ethiopians." 2 Chr.14:9-14 1,000,000 2,270,365+

God kills Jehoram by making his bowels fall out 2 Chr.21:14-19 1 2,270,366+

Ezekiel's wife Ezek.24:15-18 1 2,270,367+

Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:1-10 2 2,270,369+
Herod


I stand by the fact that this behavior is that of an asshole
And I stand by the fact that YOU are one twisted individual.

If you believe all that you just pasted, why don't you believe the part about blasphemy being an unforgiveable sin?

I get that but I just dont see the point in placing judgement on people you dont feel exist in the first place. I mean why not devote some time to something you do believe exists...you know...like presence of your brain. Because I think you're lacking something up there gf.

oh yes a personal insult because you cannot understand where I am coming from. You are so good at a logical debate.

Look I have a problem with people following a guy real or imagninary that it is proven he has commited atrocieties in the old testiment to human beings.

I don't believe in Muhammad but I still question why someone who follow him if he existed because he was murdering, piliging pediphile?

I can question why people follow an imaginary person who does not have good ethics? They look at him as a leader and I am questioning his leadership? Real or imaginary?

And I stand by the fact that YOU are one twisted individual.

If you believe all that you just pasted, why don't you believe the part about blasphemy being an unforgiveable sin?

THis is in your OWN BIBLE!! I did not make this up?? Follow the sitations at the end of the sentence and it will lead you to where in the bible it is written that these things happen?

This is not made up this is in the old testiment in black and white?

I dare you to pick up the bible and tell me that these words to not exist in your bible??:@@: :@@: :@@: :@@: :@@: :@@:

I do not care if blasphamy is an unforgivable sin if god is going to just kill people for dumb reasons.

oh yes a personal insult because you cannot understand where I am coming from. You are so good at a logical debate.

Look I have a problem with people following a guy real or imagninary that it is proven he has commited atrocieties in the old testiment to human beings.

I don't believe in Muhammad but I still question why someone who follow him if he existed because he was murdering, piliging pediphile?

I can question why people follow an imaginary person who does not have good ethics? They look at him as a leader and I am questioning his leadership? Real or imaginary?


I know where you are coming from. Again..I just see no sense in talking about something you dont believe in the first place. So if you dont believe He exists then why do you care if others believe in Him despite what kind of a God He is? It's no skin off your nose because you dont have to be a witness to anyone. You have no God expecting that of you. So give it a rest and move on to something else.

I'm not arguing with you about the bible says... my only concern is that YOU believe what's in the bible... but not in God.

Do you not understand how illogical that is?

I'm not arguing with you about the bible says... my only concern is that YOU believe what's in the bible... but not in God.

Do you not understand how illogical that is?


AMEN gf!! That's exactly what I've been trying to say this whole time!!!!

Whether knowing or believing, it seems Christians talk about the nature of god a lot and yet cry "god is incomprehensible" if anyone joins in or suggests flaws in their descriptions.

Thats true, Christians do do that. But people miss the bigger picture to often.

They say we use scare tactics and that makes us wrong. I agree scare tacitcs isnt the way to go, it is wrong.
But to a Christian it isnt a tactic, its real and we're trying to warn people of it.
That being the case, I'd say Christians are doing the right thing.

If you beleive someone had a chance at a life they never dreamed possible, that was better then what they have ever known before, wouldnt you at least try to show them?
If not, I'd say, you werent that good of a person.

Will you just give it a rest, Warrior. We heard you the first ten times. You think God is a mass murderer. I think you're an idiot but I don't post it over and over and over ad infinitum.

A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell.
C. S. Lewis

Wanted to repeat this.

C.S.Lewis' idea of absolute morality has been extensively criticized. I'm afraid bringing out a quote by this guy is not gonna convince anybody already familiar with Christian apologetics...

C.S.Lewis' idea of absolute morality has been extensively criticized. I'm afraid bringing out a quote by this guy is not gonna convince anybody already familiar with Christian apologetics...

Let's hear the critical analysis. All I'm seeing is ranting by some people. I'm not hearing any reasoned logical discussions.