I can say, you quoted the bible to look how you wanted it to and not the way it was meant to.
I've read the Bible several times. I've attended church once more a week since I was born without fail. I've known Christians my entire life, and discussed the theology with priests and ministers.

How is it that you know what the Bible is supposed to look like and I do not?

I like Naps better, I think its Naps? The one with the crock and no Cosby head.
I saw his sig and was inspired to include The Cos.

I've read the Bible several times. I've attended church once more a week since I was born without fail. I've known Christians my entire life, and discussed the theology with priests and ministers.

How is it that you know what the Bible is supposed to look like and I do not?


I saw his sig and was inspired to include The Cos.


That dont mean shit Evak, You've known and discussed it your entire life and still come on these forums and tell me that you hate going to church.

Why dont you take half the crap you say here with you to church one day?
See how well that flys.
See if your discussions match up then.

Just because you can sit and have a conversation with someone on something doesnt mean you get it and you have repeated several times here that you dont. Otherwise you'd be a Christian right now instead of an asshole stating he knows what he doesnt.

You've said something like this to warrior as well, and I'm curious. How is it that you know how the Bible was "meant to look"?

Read the responce I left to Evak.

Thats how.

Perhaps, perhaps not, but since warrior never labelled your beliefs "garbage" your point is moot.



I must have missed that post, perhaps you could point it out to me.



Well, if you ignore the personal atacks and insults you've hurled I guess you could say that.



She's not the one complaining about your behavior, you're complaining about hers. So...take your own advice if you don't like the way the conversation is going.



Bull. Firstly, sharing opinions is what we do here. Secondly, it's you who is trying to frame the debate to your liking, for example:

"Ask the question in a way it can be answered and I would be happy to answer it. Actually, I dont see this conversation going anywhere. So, ask the question the way it should be asked or this conversation is over."

It would be nice if we could always demand that others in the debate wouldn't ask us difficult questions, but that isn't the way it works.



I've read the thread a few times now, and I think she's on topic.



Where did she say that?



My cholesterol. :)


I'm not going through the entire thread to make you happy Vile, thats not my job.
I'm not a mod.
If you see shes on topic, I'd have to say youre blind or you see what you want to.
This is about creation as far as I know and she hasnt stayed on that. She went off on how God is a murdering bastard.

I guess if murder is subject to be seen as creation then we're good to go arent we?

That dont mean shit Evak, You've known and discussed it your entire life and still come on these forums and tell me that you hate going to church.
Yes, one can hate going to church when one doesn't believe.
See if your discussions match up then.
I guarantee you wouldn't want to see me debate church-goers in a church.
Just because you can sit and have a conversation with someone on something doesnt mean you get it and you have repeated several times here that you dont.
Show me these quotes.
Otherwise you'd be a Christian right now instead of an asshole stating he knows what he doesnt.
Conversely, it could be argued that if one were to truly demonstrate understanding of the Bible they would laugh at Christianity.

Read the responce I left to Evak.

Thats how.

Your response explained nothing, it was just an attack on Evak. The question still remains..."how is it that you know the way the Bible was meant to be interpreted"?

I'm not going through the entire thread to make you happy Vile, thats not my job.

No, but it's also not your job to post false and defamatory material. It's even un-christian, but I don't expect you to see it that way. :)


I'm not a mod.

Perhaps there's a god after all. ;)


If you see shes on topic, I'd have to say youre blind or you see what you want to.
This is about creation as far as I know and she hasnt stayed on that. She went off on how God is a murdering bastard.

I guess if murder is subject to be seen as creation then we're good to go arent we?

Look Inviolable, threads never follow a linear path here at allforums, so get over it. My point was she didn't engage in any personal attacks and yet you, a self-proclaimed christian, made more than one crude reference to her personal life. You may be a christian, but you're not a very nice one. :)

Yes, one can hate going to church when one doesn't believe.

I guarantee you wouldn't want to see me debate church-goers in a church.

Show me these quotes.

Conversely, it could be argued that if one were to truly demonstrate understanding of the Bible they would laugh at Christianity.

You havent actually said, you dont get it. But you have stated several times your clear and comprehensive thoughts on why youre not a Christian.

Which is what I meant.

And I think I would like to see you debate it in church.

That doesnt mean I care if the "church goers" win or lose the debate.
I'd just like to see the after effects. The results would be interesting.

Simply because you have no lack of faith in your ability to argue the matter, doesnt mean what youre saying would match up with what it's suppose to be.
All it really does is boost your ego. Nothing is learned from it.

No, but it's also not your job to post false and defamatory material. It's even un-christian, but I don't expect you to see it that way. :)


Fine here.

"God was a crazed seriel killer

because Moderate christans aren't annoying like you
Moderate Christian don't try to convert people or convince them there is a god they let people believe the way they want to.

but when you set it out your goal to try an convert people claiming thier ideas an concept that god does not exist than I have every right to criticize your believe in god. When christians go around demonizing evolution and saying that athiest or pagans have no moral values then I show all the immoral things and demonize thier ideas and religious beliefs."

Quoting what she said.

Which in that she says things I didnt do. Which also backs up what I said she was doing.

I will give you that I'm not kind.

But reality is subjective. My reality may be different than yours, but it's just as valid.

This is how this all went off topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior1972
I never said a god or gods didn't do it. I say we do not have enough information to make an informed decision if there were intelligent designers or not and I certianly would not give credit to the Judeo-Christian god for it if there was proof of intelligent designers.
and if and I mean if he was I still wouldn't bow to him because of the atrocities upon mankind he has created. I would rather sit in hell with satan.



Yeah, any God who creates a universe, takes human form, shows man the value of love and dies for that same value is totally something you should avoid.
__________________

Then my response was he was nt a loving god and gave prove from verses of the bible about the things god has done to humanity.

You havent actually said, you dont get it. But you have stated several times your clear and comprehensive thoughts on why youre not a Christian.

Which is what I meant.

And I think I would like to see you debate it in church.

That doesnt mean I care if the "church goers" win or lose the debate.
I'd just like to see the after effects. The results would be interesting.

Simply because you have no lack of faith in your ability to argue the matter, doesnt mean what youre saying would match up with what it's suppose to be.
All it really does is boost your ego. Nothing is learned from it.

Umm lets turn this around and you go debate the existance of god to about 230 atheist.
Going to a church and debating against god 230 people against one is hardly fair.
If you want to have a good debate go 1-1 or a whole church to a whole group of atheist so no one feels isolated.

Fine here.

"God was a crazed seriel killer

because Moderate christans aren't annoying like you
Moderate Christian don't try to convert people or convince them there is a god they let people believe the way they want to.

but when you set it out your goal to try an convert people claiming thier ideas an concept that god does not exist than I have every right to criticize your believe in god. When christians go around demonizing evolution and saying that athiest or pagans have no moral values then I show all the immoral things and demonize thier ideas and religious beliefs."

Quoting what she said.

Which in that she says things I didnt do. Which also backs up what I said she was doing.

I will give you that I'm not kind.

But reality is subjective. My reality may be different than yours, but it's just as valid.

Ok what was the purpose of your thread??
What I got was you were trying to prove people who did not believe in god by using this speakers understanding of the Universe as proof. Claiming we are wrong for our views and you are right.
Trying to convince of not only a "god" created this Universe but your Judeo-christian form of god?
You were trying to convert people into your way of believe with this dude who claimed he understood the Universe and how the connections with the universed prooved the bible correct.

This is not conversion?? This is not an attempt to change people views from athiest or agnostic or hindu to Christianity?

and yes I did say this

"God was a crazed seriel killer" and I called him a mass murderer and I have proved my case with 1,700 words from the bible of countless time god has killed people for no real justifiable reason. Such as complaining too much, for worshipping other gods, for not pleasing him, killed kids for laughing at a bald man, killing blacks for not reason, killing jews for not listening to him ect and so on.

I do not want to repost the entire post of thoes 1,700 words. I am not trying to be insulting I am being honest about who he is and what he is has done. Just because he "claims" he is a god does not justify the atrocities he has commited on mankind.

If hindu god did this or a wiccan god did this you would be calling those gods mass murders and condemning them and so would I.

What I find disturbing about this whole thing is that you will not acknowlege what your god has done to humanity though it sits there right in front of your face and you will not answer a question of whether you condone his behavior based on the fact that he "claims" to be your god.

Perhaps god has mellowed over the years but that does not mean he should get a free pass for what he has done in the past. Do we let a murder or serial killler get away from facing justice because he did it 20 years ago? or in gods case 2,000 years ago. Does he not have to face accoubtablility because he claims to be a god?

Where are the morals and ethics of what he has done?

If we simply do not hold the people in authority responsible for thier actions they are free to abuse thier authority over people. It is proven that god abused his authority over humanity.

This is my case to why I will not follow him.

and I see nothing wrong with that. Just because he claims to be a god does not make me wash away all his sins. I am sorry.

Suposedly, or in theory, there is a huge black hole in the center of the universe. Its not just a black whole, Its a giant f-n cloud of hundreds of huge black holes. Its near where a bunch of old stars have already collapsed and now the blackholes are eathing each other and their surroundings.

Hmm...and apparently its spewing crap out into the universe...
http://fe1.news.re3.yahoo.com/s/space/20070420/sc_space/blackholeclusterbreathesoutenormousgascloud

I never said a god or gods didn't do it. I say we do not have enough information to make an informed decision if there were intelligent designers or not and I certianly would not give credit to the Judeo-Christian god for it if there was proof of intelligent designers.
What would you accept as enough information?
I believe that there is enough evidence, the question is; why do you reject the evidence that is already there?
and if and I mean if he was I still wouldn't bow to him because of the atrocities upon mankind he has created. I would rather sit in hell with satan.
Bow or not bow, God leaves it up to you.

Matter and energy are interchangable and can exist outside time and space as we know it. They can act as a particle or a wave and can actually be in two places at the same time.
It appears that you believe that something is eternal and something exists outside of time and space, two of the attributes of God.
Could that eternal, outside of space and time, something be intelligent?

You mean Matter us high density energy.
Ok this is assuming the big bang occured which there is no solid evidence for, its just the best theory so far.
There is no solid evidence for the big bang? I wonder if Hawking would agree with you or disagree?
If there is no "solid" evidence for the big bang then there is certainly no solid evidence for this:
Everything started as hydrogen. When the hydrogen compressed enough in stars it became all of the denser elements in the order they are listed in the table of elements. Everything expanded at different rates hence we have all sort of different elements. The idea is that the big bang was from a super dence glob. The second the glob started expanding you started getting temperature and density variations. Even if everything started at the same rate the very nano second one small peice of matter changed to a heavier element it would have an effect on every other single bit of matter and hence change 'speeds'.
Space and Time are inter-related. Gravity creates time 'pits' in space. If you travel around the earth in a space shuttle time actually moves a bit slower. So while you may have been in space 10 years you may have only aged 9.7 years. So, When you are dealing with a super dense glob of matter we actually have no clue how time actually moves around it

What would you accept as enough information?
I believe that there is enough evidence, the question is; why do you reject the evidence that is already there?

"You" believe there is enough information. That is you. Some have only the words of a book and that is "enough"information.

What would be enough information for me.
Seeing the universe being created by god as it happened in real time and how he supposely did it.
That would be enough to convince me.
Even then if he claimed to be the Judeo-Christian god and he was responsible for creating the Universe does not excuse what he did to humanity.
I would not follow him anywhere.

Value of love??God never taught the value of love ,Jesus did!
First, Jesus is God
Second, the Old Testament speaks of God's love as abounding, and unfailing; the Book of Psalms goes on and on about the Love of God. As God loves us He also wants us to love Him, and the only way we can demonstrate our love for God is to worship and obey Him.

God was a crazed seriel killer so jealous that he demands your worship and praise.
Where does it say that God demands our worship and praise? Of course if we reject God, we will not be with Him, we will go to a place He has prepared a place that is devoid of the attributes of God.

He has murdered more people than any serial killer in the world.
Murdered?
Before we get to far into this, I'd like to ask you a question...does a woman have the right to abort the baby that is inside her womb? I have a point in asking this.

God did not teach love. God is vengeful, jeoulous and abusive.[
Well we are instructed not to get revenge, that belongs to God, and God Himself says he is a Jealous God. If your spouse is fooling around on you is it wrong for you to be jealous?
Abusive?
Your view of God is from one who hates God, I suppose you can accuse Him of anything.

Jesus who "claimed" he was the son of god taught love, compassion and tolerance.
Tolerance? What do you mean by tolerance? Certainly, when Jesus, James, and John, left the Samaritan village after being rejected, and James and John wanted to call fire down from heaven to destroy it, Jesus showed a great deal of tolerance by not doing it. But was he showing tolerance to the religious leaders, or to the money changers in the temple? How about when he said (about himself):
John 3:17-18 "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

He "claimed god was a loving god" which is totally inconsistant with the old testiment.
No, it is inconsistent with your view of the Old Testament.

There is no proof that Jesus was the son of god.
There is proof, there is evidence, just none that convinces you to change your own world view.

There was no DNA test to see if his blood was some how different than ours and his miricles were never taped
If there was D.N.A. anyone who did not want to believe would simply claim that it was faked by the Christians who only wanted to control people.
The tape...obviously camera tricks.
For those who don't want to believe there is nothing there that forces them to believe; for those who want to believe there is enough evidence for their belief to be reasonable.

and if Christians actually followed Jesus in practicing love, compassion and tolerance I wouldn't dislike most of them but you got the conservative republicans caring more about not paying taxes than caring about the poor and hungry and homless
Republican, Democrat, doesn't matter much to me, and when the taxes are taken from me and given to the poor and hungry that's great, but when they are taken from me and miss used, that's when I complain....doesn't really do me any good, but I still whine.

completely ignoring the bible that said "turn no man away that is hungry" ect and so on.
Christians are givers, your "completely ignoring" charge is a stretch, maybe it satisfies your anger towards Christians.

"turn the other cheek" then you go the evangalist trying to convert everyone and telling them they will burn in hell forever and telling everyone else how to live thier lives.
Why does that bother you?
Are you saying that the evangelist shouldn't warn people of a coming judgment, and tell them of a present salvation?

Jesus was not god and if he was god , god has a personality disorder to go from vengeful, hateful and jealous to the persona of Jesus of compassion, tolerance and understanding.
Jesus is God, and the difference between God revealed in the Old Testament and God revealed in the New Testament is the focus of His wrath. In the Old Testament God's people, the ones who were supposed to represent him to the rest of the nations, (the Israelites), would reject Him, and break their covenant that they made with Him. It was then that His wrath would be directed against them, as He told them it would. Another example of His wrath would be against another is nation after it attacked or threatened Israel.
In the New Testament God's Wrath, Justice, and Judgment is taken off of those who deserve it (us), and put all on Jesus Christ. It's His gift, we commit the crime Jesus took His wrath, and we get His Love.
That way God's judgment and justice is satisfied, and He is still able to give us His love, and allow us in His presence.

Sorry I do not believe anything you say. I have read the bible and what I got from it is what I wrote. I will not bow to him and I will not believe some jesus guy claiming to be the son of god or god himself simply because he says he is.
Save it for someone who is a sucker.

Sorry I do not believe anything you say. I have read the bible and what I got from it is what I wrote. I will not bow to him and I will not believe some jesus guy claiming to be the son of god or god himself simply because he says he is.
Save it for someone who is a sucker.
Warrior, you are a classic example of someone who reads the bible only to try and prove God doesn't exist. Funny you should mention verses you claim show God to be a 'serial killer' yet chose to ignore the verses that warn you against the sin of blasphemy. Either you believe what's written in the bible... or you don't. You can't have it both ways.

I see you as a miserable, insecure, mentally & emotionally unbalanced person who will no doubt spend the rest of your life wallowing in the mire you've created for yourself by blasphemizing God. Next time you find yourself in a homeless shelter, doctor's office, counselor's couch... just remember, payback is a bitch. And you're earning every second of sorrow you experience.

SMW

Warrior, you are a classic example of someone who reads the bible only to try and prove God doesn't exist. Funny you should mention verses you claim show God to be a 'serial killer' yet chose to ignore the verses that warn you against the sin of blasphemy. Either you believe what's written in the bible... or you don't. You can't have it both ways.

I see you as a miserable, insecure, mentally & emotionally unbalanced person who will no doubt spend the rest of your life wallowing in the mire you've created for yourself by blasphemizing God. Next time you find yourself in a homeless shelter, doctor's office, counselor's couch... just remember, payback is a bitch. And you're earning every second of sorrow you experience.

SMW

Are you suggesting the problems she experiences in life are due to her "blasphemizing" [sic] God?

Are you suggesting the problems she experiences in life are due to her "blasphemizing" [sic] God?

Absolutely.

Do you deny that possibility?

Are you suggesting the problems she experiences in life are due to her "blasphemizing" [sic] God?

Absolutely.

Do you deny that possibility?

I can't deny the possibility, however it seems unlikely in the extreme. If blaspheming God leads to punishment in this life, I should have been struck by lightning long ago. ;)

I'm sure you've experienced a problem or two that might not have occurred had you believed in a higher power. Not every payback comes as a bolt of lightning, ya know?

;)
SMW

I'm sure you've experienced a problem or two that might not have occurred had you believed in a higher power. Not every payback comes as a bolt of lightning, ya know?

;)
SMW

Honestly SMW, I can't think of one unpleasant incident in my life that wouldn't have occurred if I believed in a higher power. Can you give me an example of such an occurrence in your life?

I can't think of one unpleasant incident in my life that wouldn't have occurred if I believed in a higher power.Being spat at by online monotheists springs to mind.

Just like the atheists in the crowd, I can't prove one single thing. That's why it's called FAITH.

But there does seem to be a pattern here. Most Christians I know are happy, calm, tolerant, unassuming people who try their best to quietly live their lives according to the bible's teachings. They experience heartbreak and sadness and illness and tragedies just like anybody else... but their faith helps them get thru it.

Most atheists I know are unhappy, loud, intolerant people who tend to spend their whole lives trying to prove something that's unknowable. They call it 'intelligent questioning' and many other things... but I call it mass confusion. Bad things happen to them, too. But they don't have that FAITH to fall back on, so they usually just blame somebody else for their bad luck. Popular targets seem to be the government, the president, the Republicans or the Conservatives. (Not sure I've ever heard an atheist blame the Democrats for the sorry state of the world... wonder what's up with that?)

SMW

... so they usually just blame somebody else for their bad luck. Popular targets seem to be the government, the president, the Republicans or the Conservatives. (Not sure I've ever heard an atheist blame the Democrats for the sorry state of the world... wonder what's up with that?)

SMW

lol

Most Christians I know are happy, calm, tolerant, unassuming peopleShame it hasn't rubbed off.

Popular targets seem to be ... the Conservatives.You're just making this up. There is no correlation between atheism and not liking the Conservatives.

Warrior, you are a classic example of someone who reads the bible only to try and prove God doesn't exist. Funny you should mention verses you claim show God to be a 'serial killer' yet chose to ignore the verses that warn you against the sin of blasphemy. Either you believe what's written in the bible... or you don't. You can't have it both ways.

I see you as a miserable, insecure, mentally & emotionally unbalanced person who will no doubt spend the rest of your life wallowing in the mire you've created for yourself by blasphemizing God. Next time you find yourself in a homeless shelter, doctor's office, counselor's couch... just remember, payback is a bitch. And you're earning every second of sorrow you experience.

SMW

Wow what a christian thing to say. Jesus must be proud of you. You sound like fred from the Church of "god hates fags" That is how he things. God is punishing the people with Katrina because the United states allows homosexuality. That the VT massacre was done by god to take revenge for American sins. Sounds familiar.
Your theory is so busted and I tell you why.
When I was 8 I believed in god yet a man that my mom brought home from the bar came into the room and molested me time and time again. Age 9 I still believe in god and my uncle while watching me so my mom goes to the bars comes into my room and puts his hand down my panties and feels around for like what seems hours. Age 14 I still believe in god and do not question him my moms alcoholsm becomes so out of control she began to beat and abuse us on a daily basis. The abuse was so bad I was be in my room crying and begging god to make it stop. It never did. NO matter how much I believe god still punished me for no reason!!! I did nothing wrong!! So I concluded there was no god because god would not let little children suffer so much for no reason when children did nothing to deserve it. So your little theory that if you believe and do what god ask and you don't get punished is not true.
Also I have been as you say "blashamous against god" ever since age 14. When I was homeless due to my PTSD caused by the childhood abuse that GOD himself allowed to happen (if he existed). I still said blashmaphas things. My view never changed and when I got into transitional housing it was not that I prayed to god. I got into transitional housing or 2 year housing not because I asked god to help me or god to forgive me. I got into transitional housing saying the exact same things I say today and when I met my husband who was wealthy and good and moderate christians he did not come along and take me out of poverty because I asked gods forgiveness or stop talking or thinking the way I did about god. My thinking was the same as it is now. Nothing has changed.. whether poor, wealthy, sick or healthy my opinion of god stays the same. It does not get better or worse because of what I think or say about god. It is has been proven over and over again because I would never be in a nice 3 story townhome with a husband who is wealthy.
So your theory is incorrect that god punishes you whether you believe or not.
Children all over the world are being sexually abused, physically abused and emotionally abused and they believe in god, they do not say blashamus things. Why are they being punished by god?? What did they do to deserve it??

Never blame yourself or bad people when bad things happen to you because you can blame God, right?

I never said bad things don't happen to innocent people... but it's not GOD that makes them happen. Sometimes, however, it is a LACK of belief in God that causes people to do 'whatever feels good' at the time, including hurting others. And why not? If you don't believe in God (or any higher power), what have you got to lose? Not your immortal soul... and nothing else is really all that valuable.

I hope you never have to suffer again. I hope your 'wealthy' husband keeps his job at Microsoft for the next 50 years and you never have to experience poverty or unhappiness again in your life.

And while we're at it, maybe you should get down on your knees and thank whatever pagan fairy you believe in for the good stuff in your life right now. Then you can get back down there and curse God if things ever go the other way.

None of us have lived perfect lives and you're not the only person who's ever suffered... or blamed God when things go wrong.

But you ARE the only person I've ever 'met' who claimed God was a serial killer and I just couldn't sit back and let you get by with that statement without telling you how twisted you are.

You are, you know?

Are you suggesting the problems she experiences in life are due to her "blasphemizing" [sic] God?

Vile, why is it I always see you "protecting" the poor atheist who get bashed by Christians but when its the other way around youre no where to be found?

I see very little atheist bashing going on but I see an awful lot of Christian bashing going on.

Why is it that atheist feel this compulsion to insult Christians and/or the God they believe in. If you don't believe in God, fine, that is your decision. There is no need for this constant round of insults directed at Christians and their God.

You accuse Christians of trying to shove their religion down your throats but you are the ones incessantly trying to shove your irreligion down the throats of the faithful.

Don't believe, but shut up about it already.

"Never blame yourself or bad people when bad things happen to you because you can blame God, right?"

Nope never said that. I was a child and could not have possibly do anything to deserve him neglecting my plea to take me away from the abuse and neglect. As for being homeless because of a mental illness called PTSD that I blame on my mom not god and how can I blame god if I do not believe in your version of him. I never said I blamed him. I concluded there was no Judeo-christain version of him. There is a difference because if there was a judeo-christian god little children would not get cancer, get molested and raped and beaten.
"I never said bad things don't happen to innocent people... but it's not GOD that makes them happen. Sometimes, however, it is a LACK of belief in God that causes people to do 'whatever feels good' at the time, including hurting others. And why not? If you don't believe in God (or any higher power), what have you got to lose? Not your immortal soul... and nothing else is really all that valuable."

If you read your bible and believe in the Judeo christian form of god you will understand he has the power over everything. He can stop anything he wants to but chooses not too. I decided long time ago that a god that choose to ingnore my pleas for help either did not care about me or did not exist. I chose the latter.
"I hope you never have to suffer again. I hope your 'wealthy' husband keeps his job at Microsoft for the next 50 years and you never have to experience poverty or unhappiness again in your life."

"Well life is suffering and anyone telling you different is selling something" Dread pirate Robert from THe Princess Bride.
Whether I worship god or a fairy or nothing at all the random things that happen in my life will happen just the same. Nothing will get better or worse depending on who I praise and worship. That is pure superstition to believe otherwise.

"And while we're at it, maybe you should get down on your knees and thank whatever pagan fairy you believe in for the good stuff in your life right now. Then you can get back down there and curse God if things ever go the other way."

I do not curse god. I simply tell the truth about him and in the old testiment he is a serial killer. Anyone who says he is not is making up excuses for his behavior. Are you saying he never murdered anyone unjustly? that because he is a god he gets to murder people for complaining to much, not listening to him, or kids making fun of a bald man??
"None of us have lived perfect lives and you're not the only person who's ever suffered... or blamed God when things go wrong."

Once again I will try and make this clear to you. I do not blame god. I do not believe in your god based on what happend to me as a child because no god that I know of would let children suffer so. He must not exist. If I blamed god I would have became a satanist.


"But you ARE the only person I've ever 'met' who claimed God was a serial killer and I just couldn't sit back and let you get by with that statement without telling you how twisted you are."

Than a couple milliong people in this world are twisted too because they believe the same thing I do.

"You are, you know?"

again I am less twisted than anyone blinding following this fellow around after the atrocities he has committed on man kind.

Vile, why is it I always see you "protecting" the poor atheist who get bashed by Christians but when its the other way around youre no where to be found?

Just because I do not believe in your god does not mean I do not believe in "A" god or gods.

I am an agnostic which is different than athiest.

I say there is not enough information to determine whether a god,gods or not exist.

and I believe if one or some existed they would not

1) demand our worship because they do not have egos
2) Communicate with us because we are too retarded as a species to understand an intellect of that magnitude.
3) punish or reward us for anything we do because he/she/it has more important things in this universe to worry about than training a cockroach.


I have concluded that the judeo-christian form of god was either

1) made up to control people
2)a race of aliens mascarading as gods
3)the result of an undiagnosed mental illness in the mind of people writing the bible.

Warrior, you lost me when you started quoting from Princess Bride. I mean, how much more authoritative can you get than that?

May you find peace someday.

SMW

You accuse Christians of trying to shove their religion down your throats but you are the ones incessantly trying to shove your irreligion down the throats of the faithful.
Religion is put in the face of atheists at every waking hour in public. Don't even bother with this argument.

I see very little atheist bashing going on but I see an awful lot of Christian bashing going on.

It is quite hard to "bash" people for what they do not believe in.

Just because I do not believe in your god does not mean I do not believe in "A" god or gods.

I am an agnostic which is different than athiest.

OK, Vile has made it clear he doesnt wish to stay out of it, so why should I?

I was talking to Vile not you. I was talking about Atheist in general and not just the conversation youre having. So it doesnt really matter if youre agnostic or not.


I say there is not enough information to determine whether a god,gods or not exist.

And? is that all? Thats really all you've said so far, over and over again. Its like a monkey with a club and a coconut. Just cant pop that bad boy open.

and I believe if one or some existed they would not

1) demand our worship because they do not have egos
2) Communicate with us because we are too retarded as a species to understand an intellect of that magnitude.
3) punish or reward us for anything we do because he/she/it has more important things in this universe to worry about than training a cockroach.


I have concluded that the judeo-christian form of god was either

1) made up to control people
2)a race of aliens mascarading as gods
3)the result of an undiagnosed mental illness in the mind of people writing the bible.


Why would this be so? If anything created the universe why wouldnt it?
I mean, if you made something you'd think it was yours right?
And if it doesnt work the way you wanted it to what would you do?

You are thinking like a human not a god. If I were a god and knew I owed everything. I do not need something human or beneath me to validate it for me or give me credit for it.

You are thinking like a human not a god.

Exactly my point. You are just human, how could you possibly know what a God is thiniking or even make an attempt to know its motives.

You cant, so what are you basing your assumptions on? That is the question and you missed it by a mile.

Is it simply that your human and you dont have a clue?

If that is the case then how can you draw any conclusions? Which you have.

So I ask again, what are you drawing your conclusions on?

I am making an idea of what a true god would be like. You assume that the judeo-christian god created the earth and demand your worship. Your proof a 2,000 year old book in which god has not showed himself since biblical times.

Why is your assumption more valid than mine?? You are human too and how do you know how god thinks? because of a book?? written by humans who have personal agenda and are failable?? the bible is no means a credible source to make assumptions on.

I stand by my concepts that a god the is intelligent enough to create the Universe has no need for our worship or loyality.

Why is it that atheist feel this compulsion to insult Christians and/or the God they believe in.You have to make a distinction between the two. You have the right to complain if insulted; you have no right to declare your personal beliefs taboo and then scream "persecution" if people do not treat them with reverence.

Go ahead and mock or criticise evolution, Western enlightenment values, empiricism, materialism, George Orwell or anything else I admire. You won't find me confusing that with you insulting me.

Or perhaps you Christians should take a leaf out of the muslim's book if you don't like your deity publicly disrespected...

You are just human, how could you possibly know what a God is thiniking or even make an attempt to know its motives.

Is it simply that your human and you dont have a clue?This is how I see hear such appeals to "we can't say anything about god"...


Theist: God is such and such.
Atheist: But that doesn't add up.
Theist: You are misrepresenting god.

I am making an idea of what a true god would be like. You assume that the judeo-christian god created the earth and demand your worship. Your proof a 2,000 year old book in which god has not showed himself since biblical times.

Why is your assumption more valid than mine?? You are human too and how do you know how god thinks? because of a book?? written by humans who have personal agenda and are failable?? the bible is no means a credible source to make assumptions on.

I stand by my concepts that a god the is intelligent enough to create the Universe has no need for our worship or loyality.


I never said anything about what I think. I simply asked you how you came to your conclusions.

I guess the answer is beyond you. You believe what you want to believe with no thought behind it. As if youre being led by unquestionable faith.
Is that it?
Youre just not smart enough to come up with your own answers?

Had to edit that, my response was kind of funny, I had to put a stop to funny right away.
Let ne edit this again, I am guessing I may not be clear enough.

Did you sit down one day and think, if there was a god he wouldnt be like the Christain God.
Or do you go through steps, like something didnt seem right and it didnt add up and what were those steps?
Or did you just hear or read what someone else said and thought, I like that perhaps I'll repeat it as much as possible.

This is how I see hear such appeals to "we can't say anything about god"...


Theist: God is such and such.
Atheist: But that doesn't add up.
Theist: You are misrepresenting god.

I just asked a question Blob, in all actuality I'm not saying anything about my opinion of God. I simply want to know how she comes to her conclusions.

I'm sure if I asked you, how did you come to your current conclusion, you would have an answer.
She doesnt answer, she just keeps repeating the same thing over and over again. Which by now isnt even remotely connected to what I'm asking.

Vile, why is it I always see you "protecting" the poor atheist who get bashed by Christians but when its the other way around youre no where to be found?

Because that's what expect to see. You have a preconceived notion that Christians are "bashed", so you see "Christian bashing" everywhere you look.

"I never said anything about what I think. I simply asked you how you came to your conclusions."

You made it evident at the beginning of this thread that you believe in the bible and so yes you are saying what you think when you say you believe in the christian bible. I came up with my ideas on the concept of deduction.
"I guess the answer is beyond you. You believe what you want to believe with no thought behind it. As if youre being led by unquestionable faith.
Is that it?"

Yes no thought behind it. I have thought about it since 14 years old. Studied buddhism, hinduism, wiccan and Islam and came up with the same conclusion there is no judeo-christian form of god. Why not unquestionable faith. Your living in world of faith?? why can't I on the opposite side?
Youre just not smart enough to come up with your own answers?

These are my answers. NO atheist gave me this answer or agnostic books or anything like that. Simple deductions. Children suffer horrible fates in this world for no reason. God does not help them or save them. If god was all loving he would not let that happen so either god is like the old testiment god of whom I refuse to follow because he refuses to help children who are suffering or he simply does not exist. I choose the latter. It is logic. Anyone can come to that conclusion on thier own. I don't need anyone telling me something I already know in my heart. Yes I am not smart enough.. at an IQ of 130 I hardly lack intelligents and I am very independent since Majority of America is christian. Yet you accuse me of not being to able to think on me own. :lolhit:
Had to edit that, my response was kind of funny, I had to put a stop to funny right away.
Let ne edit this again, I am guessing I may not be clear enough.

You could never make yourself clear to me. We both live on different world the only problem you think your world is the reality.Did you sit down one day and think, if there was a god he wouldnt be like the Christain God.

Again the new testiment taught of this loving kind god and I see that a loving kind god would not little innocent little children suffer. I was taught that god has power over everything even satan. He could stop it if he wants but he doesn't. My conclusion he does not care or he does not exist. I choose the latter.Or do you go through steps, like something didnt seem right and it didnt add up and what were those steps?

Yes and nothing you can say can make it add up.


"Or did you just hear or read what someone else said and thought, I like that perhaps I'll repeat it as much as possible."

Nope came to the conclusion all on my own.

Because that's what expect to see. You have a preconceived notion that Christians are "bashed", so you see "Christian bashing" everywhere you look.

How do you know that?

Isnt my reality just as valid as yours?

I didnt ask her any questions that havent been asked of me in the same way.
In quite a few conversations by more then one person.

I'd rather see that youre the same way and choose to see what you want to see yourself.

I will not believe some jesus guy claiming to be the son of god or god himself simply because he says he is.
Save it for someone who is a sucker.
"Simply because he says," is not the reason I believe...matter of fact I don't know of any Christians who believe that Jesus is Lord simply because he said that he was.
But I understand that you have to paint faith in Christ as being that simplistic, and unreasonable, to protect your anti-Christian world view.

But, you are not alone...I've seen this tactic many times.

You made it evident at the beginning of this thread that you believe in the bible and so yes you are saying what you think when you say you believe in the christian bible. I came up with my ideas on the concept of deduction.

Yes I "did" say and it should be obvious what I think, but in that question, I didnt ask, What do you think I think?
I asked you something completely different, which you seemed to not understand.


Yes no thought behind it. I have thought about it since 14 years old. Studied buddhism, hinduism, wiccan and Islam and came up with the same conclusion there is no judeo-christian form of god. Why not unquestionable faith. Your living in world of faith?? why can't I on the opposite side?

14 years old and still unable to narrow it down to an acceptable answer?


These are my answers. NO atheist gave me this answer or agnostic books or anything like that. Simple deductions. Children suffer horrible fates in this world for no reason. God does not help them or save them. If god was all loving he would not let that happen so either god is like the old testiment god of whom I refuse to follow because he refuses to help children who are suffering or he simply does not exist. I choose the latter. It is logic. Anyone can come to that conclusion on thier own. I don't need anyone telling me something I already know in my heart. Yes I am not smart enough.. at an IQ of 130 I hardly lack intelligents and I am very independent since Majority of America is christian. Yet you accuse me of not being to able to think on me own. :lolhit:


See? now we're getting some where. You assume that God wouldnt let people suffer and then in another post say, you dont think we would be able to know what God would or wouldnt do.

So now that we have one answer lets get to the other.

Why wouldnt God let people suffer?

You could never make yourself clear to me. We both live on different world the only problem you think your world is the reality.

So by saying, "the only difference" youre suggesting that your world is reality with out a doubt. As if the world I live in is different then yours.

Could you explain how this is so and why would your world be more realistic then mine?

Again the new testiment taught of this loving kind god and I see that a loving kind god would not little innocent little children suffer. I was taught that god has power over everything even satan. He could stop it if he wants but he doesn't. My conclusion he does not care or he does not exist. I choose the latter.Or do you go through steps, like something didnt seem right and it didnt add up and what were those steps?

Thanks for repeating the same thing again.

Yes and nothing you can say can make it add up.

I never said it would, I'm under the impression that I'm on a forum made for debate. Thats what I'm trying to do

This guy is awesome - thanks so much for this link - correlates exactly with the verses in the Bible.
It's all so simple people, right before us all along, but many will continue to fight it and not acknowledge this simple truth

"14 years old and still unable to narrow it down to an acceptable answer?"

yes it is an acceptable answer. Why is it so important that I believe in your version of god? Why are you trying to convince me of something I have stated over and over again I denounce? It may not be an acceptable answer to you personally but is a valid answer for me and millions of others who believe the same way I do.

"See? now we're getting some where. You assume that God wouldnt let people suffer and then in another post say, you dont think we would be able to know what God would or wouldnt do.

So now that we have one answer lets get to the other.

Why wouldnt God let people suffer?"

because god did not let the Jews suffer from the hands of the pheroh. He does get involved when he wants to. There is not reason to let little innocent children suffer unless 1 you do not intervere in the lives of humans which the Judeo christian god obviously does intervere because it is written countless times in the old testiment or 2 he does not exist.

I think if there is a god he/she/it/they does not intervere which means he would not write a bible for us to follow. If god cared so much he would not let children suffer so because they suffer and lose belief in him. If he cared about saving so many souls he would not let the innocent suffer because they would see it as either abondoment or that he does not exist.

"by saying, "the only difference" youre suggesting that your world is reality with out a doubt. As if the world I live in is different then yours.

Could you explain how this is so and why would your world be more realistic then mine?"

It is all about perspective. From view point you are not thinking in reality because I think purly in science and not hocus pocus and superstition.
From your perspective I do not have faith, trust and hope in a being out there looking for our best interest and you think i am not in reality.

I never said you were wrong. Just talking about my perspective.
Morality, god and philosophy is about perspectives. None of these things are absolute or right or wrong just a point of reference.

as for who ever said that people who do not believe in god can do anything they want to do and do not face reprecusions in the afterlife.

Many atheist and agnostics live a good life without murdering, stealing or commiting crimes.

It makes me wonder of why you need a threat of torture of your immortal soul burning in hell forever to force you to be a good person.
It doesn't really mean you are a good person at your heart just following rules so you can get rewarded.
A true hero does good with no reward in the end for them.
Agnostic and Atheist are heros.
They do "BE GOOD" for a reward in heaven
they do it out the pure goodness of thier hearts.

Warrior, you are a classic example of someone who reads the bible only to try and prove God doesn't exist. Funny you should mention verses you claim show God to be a 'serial killer' yet chose to ignore the verses that warn you against the sin of blasphemy. Either you believe what's written in the bible... or you don't. You can't have it both ways.

I see you as a miserable, insecure, mentally & emotionally unbalanced person who will no doubt spend the rest of your life wallowing in the mire you've created for yourself by blasphemizing God. Next time you find yourself in a homeless shelter, doctor's office, counselor's couch... just remember, payback is a bitch. And you're earning every second of sorrow you experience.

SMW


:rant:

yes an example of a loving, compassionate and tolerant christian.

yes it is an acceptable answer. Why is it so important that I believe in your version of god? Why are you trying to convince me of something I have stated over and over again I denounce? It may not be an acceptable answer to you personally but is a valid answer for me and millions of others who believe the same way I do.

I wasnt talking about your choice to be or not to be a Christian. I was talking about the way you stated the answer. It's not scientific, its your personal opinion.
And I wasnt and still am not trying to convince you of anything, I'm argueing my side. As you are and if youre not simply arguing your side then youre doing what you accuse me of, which is to convince me.

because god did not let the Jews suffer from the hands of the pheroh. He does get involved when he wants to. There is not reason to let little innocent children suffer unless 1 you do not intervere in the lives of humans which the Judeo christian god obviously does intervere because it is written countless times in the old testiment or 2 he does not exist.

I think if there is a god he/she/it/they does not intervere which means he would not write a bible for us to follow. If god cared so much he would not let children suffer so because they suffer and lose belief in him. If he cared about saving so many souls he would not let the innocent suffer because they would see it as either abondoment or that he does not exist.

Thats not scientific. Its your personal opinion.
According to the bible.
God let the jews suffer for a 100 years before he got involved and he didnt get involved simply for them, he had his own objectives in mind.
So your logic is flawed in that respect.

Also, if the universe was created by something. Lets not even say it was the Christian God, just a God like thing. He/She/It, whatever. Why is it it would have to do anything other then let us know?
If the only thing it cared about was us following it then why even give us the option not to?

It is all about perspective. From view point you are not thinking in reality because I think purly in science and not hocus pocus and superstition.
From your perspective I do not have faith, trust and hope in a being out there looking for our best interest and you think i am not in reality.
Thats not true, you cant say what I am or am not doing or thinking, unless I tell you.
You really have no idea what my perspective is, all you know for sure is I'm a Christian in one form or another.
Youre making browd assumptions and proclaiming baseless information has fact.
Does your husband do all those things you said? Other then that I dont see where youre coming to these conclusions.

I never said you were wrong. Just talking about my perspective.
Morality, god and philosophy is about perspectives. None of these things are absolute or right or wrong just a point of reference.
You have stated several times that you think I'm wrong. Proclaiming that out of the two of us youre the only one who has a chance in being correct.
Because you use logic and understanding and I dont.
At least thats what you've said, am I wrong in understanding what you have said?

from my perspective yes I think your wrong but that is my perspective. It is just a perspective. Why is it so important to you that you change my perception of reality?? or anyone elses for that matter by starting his thread? because you think you are right and I am wrong?

No one is really right or wrong it is all perspective. But in my perspective you are wrong LOL

from my perspective yes I think your wrong but that is my perspective. It is just a perspective. Why is it so important to you that you change my perception of reality??
I'm not trying to change your persepctive. Show me where I'm doing that?
I like the idea that was left to start this thread, nothing more. You came in the thread and said it was garbage, but you didnt say anything else.
So it seems that you care just as much about your perspective as I do about mine. All I am doing is defending what I believe against the words of someone who disagrees.
Whats wrong with that?


or anyone elses for that matter by starting his thread? because you think you are right and I am wrong?

No one is really right or wrong it is all perspective. But in my perspective you are wrong LOL
So, does that mean you have the right to defend your perspective and I dont?

yes an example of a loving, compassionate and tolerant christian.

SMW is pretty much the "what not to do" example for Christians.

from my perspective yes I think your wrong but that is my perspective. It is just a perspective. Why is it so important to you that you change my perception of reality?? or anyone elses for that matter by starting his thread? because you think you are right and I am wrong?

No one is really right or wrong it is all perspective. But in my perspective you are wrong LOL
I, most certainly, am trying to change your perspective.

SMW is pretty much the "what not to do" example for Christians.
Dharma, dear. For a man who CLAIMS to be a churchgoer, you're about the biggest hypocrite on the boards. You never fail to jump into the middle of a discussion about religion and side with the atheists.

I guess the real message being sent by this thread is... if you're an atheist, you can get away with anything you care to say. But if you believe in God, you're supposed to be running around with a basket of flowers, spreading love and peace or else you're falling right into that 'typical Christian' mold nonbelievers love to shout about.

Hogwash.

You and your twisted sister, Warrior make a great pair of stooges for satan.

SMW

Hell is full of more interesting people than Heaven. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

I'm gonna take your word for that, P. But isn't that kinda like saying rehab centers are full of drug users?

No big argument here... except maybe about the word 'interesting.'

:)
SMW

Hell is full of more interesting people than Heaven. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
Not necessarily. In theory it'd also be full of very religious people of non-Christian religions, which are often more boring than Christians.

Dharma, dear. For a man who CLAIMS to be a churchgoer, you're about the biggest hypocrite on the boards. You never fail to jump into the middle of a discussion about religion and side with the atheists.

I guess the real message being sent by this thread is... if you're an atheist, you can get away with anything you care to say. But if you believe in God, you're supposed to be running around with a basket of flowers, spreading love and peace or else you're falling right into that 'typical Christian' mold nonbelievers love to shout about.

Hogwash.

You and your twisted sister, Warrior make a great pair of stooges for satan.

SMW

You cannot read.
I have said several times I am not atheist.
I am agnostic.
There is a big difference.
Atheist do not believe in a god
Agnostic say there is not enough proof to determine if there is or is not a god/gods

If people like SMW are the people who get in heaven. I am more than happy to go to hell.

If people like SMW are the people who get in heaven. I am more than happy to go to hell.
Best idea I've seen you post, TS. Shall I hold the door so it doesn't hit you in the butt on your way down?

In theory it'd also be full of very religious people of non-Christian religions, which are often more boring than Christians.lol.

Besides, the quality of the company is hardly an issue when you are being gang-raped by firey demons for all eternity.

I would take that anyday than a self righteous hypocritic extremist christians going on and on about how wonderful they are and how bad pagan and athiest are.

Shall I hold the door so it doesn't hit you in the butt on your way down?I wouldn't do that. He might grab your foot on the way down and drag you with him.

You cannot read.
I have said several times I am not atheist.
I am agnostic.
There is a big difference.
Atheist do not believe in a god
Agnostic say there is not enough proof to determine if there is or is not a god/gods


So if there isn't enough proof then basically you still dont believe in God...like the Atheist. Or unlike the Atheist you are just waiting around until the "real" bible comes out and then you might believe in God???

i am God.

I met God on an acid trip in the early 70's. He's big and green and ugly. And he loves pizza.

There you have it. Thats all the proof you need.

I met God on an acid trip in the early 70's. He's big and green and ugly. And he loves pizza.

There you have it. Thats all the proof you need.

Ride....that wasn't God:lolhit:

So if there isn't enough proof then basically you still dont believe in God...like the Atheist. Or unlike the Atheist you are just waiting around until the "real" bible comes out and then you might believe in God???

I don't believe in the Judeo-christian version of god. No real bible will come along because my concept of god wouldn't bother communicating with us since we are so small on intelligence that we could not possibly communicate with a being capable of creating the universe.

Maybe in a couple millions years when our brains evolve we might be able to communicate with this being but at this point it is impossible.

I think there is a POSSIBLITY of a godor gods but I definitly reject the judeo christian verson of god.

I don't believe in the Judeo-christian version of god. No real bible will come along because my concept of god wouldn't bother communicating with us since we are so small on intelligence that we could not possibly communicate with a being capable of creating the universe.

Maybe in a couple millions years when our brains evolve we might be able to communicate with this being but at this point it is impossible.

I think there is a POSSIBLITY of a godor gods but I definitly reject the judeo christian verson of god.


Ok but how do you have proof of this God you speak of that we will be able to talk to when our brains "evolve"? And what shall I call myself since I do not believe in this God you speak of?

I see you as a miserable, insecure, mentally & emotionally unbalanced person who will no doubt spend the rest of your life wallowing in the mire you've created for yourself by blasphemizing God. Next time you find yourself in a homeless shelter, doctor's office, counselor's couch... just remember, payback is a bitch. And you're earning every second of sorrow you experience.

SMW

That comes close to the cruelest post I have ever read.

Congratulations SMW, you have truly outdone yourself this time.

That comes close to the cruelest post I have ever read.

Congratulations SMW, you have truly outdone yourself this time.
Thx for the kudos, Sal. I was inspired by her rantings about God being a serial killer.

SMW

P.S. I truly meant every word.

P.S. I truly meant every word.

That speaks very ill of you.

That speaks very ill of you.


Technically it really doesn't since she stated she was only going by your rantings of God being a serial killer. Unless you really dont think God is a serial killer then yes it would be very ill of her.

Now I am curious. Does the bible say anything about what one should do upon hearing somebody blasphemy the Christian god? If yes, what it is (or perhaps different things are mentioned at multiple instances)?

Ride....that wasn't God:lolhit:
That was the green giant, offering you crappy broccolli that you thought was weed. The rotten state caused you to think it was drugs.
Does the bible say anything about what one should do upon hearing somebody blasphemy the Christian god? If yes, what it is (or perhaps different things are mentioned at multiple instances)?
"And say to the people of Israel, Whoever curses his God shall bear his sin. He who blasphemes The Name of The Lord shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him; the sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes The Name, shall be put to death." (Leviticus 24:15-16)

"Therefore, son of man, speak to the house of Israel and say to them, Thus says The Lord God: In this again your fathers blasphemed Me, by dealing treacherously with Me. For when I had brought them into the land which I swore to give them, then wherever they saw any high hill or any leafy tree, there they offered their sacrifices and presented the provocation of their offering; there they sent up their soothing odors, and there they poured out their drink offerings. I said to them, What is the high place to which you go? So its name is called Bamah to this day. Wherefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: Will you defile yourselves after the manner of your fathers and go astray after their detestable things? When you offer your gifts and sacrifice your sons by fire, you defile yourselves with all your idols to this day." (Ezekiel 20:27-31)

"And every one who speaks a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven." (Luke 12:10)

"Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you." (Matthew 5: 11-12)

I see. Well, the point of me bringing this up was to suggest that if there's a routine of what one should do to blasphemers, and SMW is merely following this routine, then she isn't exactly being cruel per se, but just following orders...

Not sure if posting that post Sal pointed out to be cruel was included in this "routine" though.

Basically I am trying to differente between "speak ill of SMW" and "speak ill of the teachings of Christianity in general".

Ok but how do you have proof of this God you speak of that we will be able to talk to when our brains "evolve"? And what shall I call myself since I do not believe in this God you speak of?


Never said proof?? I said "MAYBE" when our brains develope millions of years from now we could communicate with this god. It is a hypothetical concept or idea or a hypothesis.

I am only certian of 3 things in this world.
You eat, shit and die.

everything else is guess work or point of perspective.

I don't call people names for not believing in my version of god. Your welcomed to believe in any god you want as long as you are not telling me I am wrong and your right because no one truly knows that and I will challenge you on in it every time.

I am called a Unitarian Universalist. We let people believe the way they want to believe as long at they are not condemning us for not believing the way they do. We are all questioning the concept of god. We have atheist, agnostics, moderate christians, moderate Jews who refuse to follow any dogma and believe in the respect and dignity of every person. we do not believe in hell or most of us do not believe in heaven.

Beliefs Within Our Faith
Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion that encompasses many faith traditions. Unitarian Universalists include people who identify as Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans, Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists, and others. As there is no official Unitarian Universalist creed, Unitarian Universalists are free to search for truth on many paths.

To quote the Rev. Marta Flanagan, "We uphold the free search for truth. We will not be bound by a statement of belief. We do not ask anyone to subscribe to a creed. We say ours is a non-creedal religion. Ours is a free faith."

Although we uphold shared principles, individual Unitarian Universalists have varied beliefs about everything from scripture to rituals to God.

That speaks very ill of you.


She doesn't get it. Don't bother. LOL

She thinks she is a stable individual looking at someone unstable. Many people with emotional problems thinks everyone else is the problem and not themselves.

Let here continue to defend her behavior it only proves my point about extremist christians.

I mean bragging about it is classic. To think she is someone how proud of herself for being emotionally and verbally abusive to an individual and then telling me I am the one unstable.

I can't even be mad about it, it is so halarious.

Now I am curious. Does the bible say anything about what one should do upon hearing somebody blasphemy the Christian god? If yes, what it is (or perhaps different things are mentioned at multiple instances)?

IF it is the old testiment you are suppose to kill them or stone them to death.
If you follow the new testiment.

Jesus specifcally says Matthew 5:39: "But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also."

but she is not obviously a christian and follows the old testiment of the vengful hateful god that punishs people who talk bad about him AKA blasmaphy.

blasmaphy.
For some reason this made me chuckle.

As for god being a serial killer. I have had a personal attack but no one acknowleging god killing people for complaining to much, killing kids for laughing at a bald man, slaughtering villages, killing innocent first born of egypt including babies after he hardened the pherohs heart to not let the Jews go.
You don't call that serial killing?
Please anyone who denies god is a serial killer explain all the murdering and rampaging and slaughters god did to humanity?
It seems all they can do is make personal attacks when I have a valid question.

I'm quite inspired by SMW's approach that certain subjects are off topic and that to mention them is the same as making personal insults. From now on if anyone mentions any of the following without appropriate reverence I will vomit bile at you:

MC Hammer
Paris Hilton
The Back to the Future trilogy

so we are muslim now and we cannot criticize god lack of moral ethics in the old testiment? I mean Muslims do not want to face the facts that Muhammad was a pilaging, murdering pediphile so they make it so you cannot question his ethics or you get stoned to death?
Is this were we are going here?
god is off limits? We cannot question god?

I have never liked nor accepted the idea that, if a person denies God, or any god, that He somehow punishes you.

A serial killer is someone who commits three or more murders in three or more separate locations with an emotional cooling off period in between the homicides. The cooling off period may last days, weeks, months, or years, and reference to separate events and separate locations distinguishes serial murder from spree and mass murder. Many are psychopaths, who are considered personality disordered and not psychotic, and thus appear to be quite normal and often even charming, a state of adaptation which Hervey Cleckley calls the "mask of sanity." There is often—but not always—a sexual element to the murders. All the murders may have been completed/attempted in a similar fashion and the victims may have had something in common, ex. occupation, race, sex, etc.
A mass murderer, on the other hand, is an individual who commits multiple murders in a single event and in one location. The perpetrators sometimes commit suicide; knowledge of their state of mind (and triggers for their actions) are often left to speculation in these cases[citation needed].
A spree killer commits multiple murders in different locations over a period of time that may vary from a few hours to several days. Unlike serial killers, however, the spree killer does not take a long break or resume everyday life between killings.

I have never liked nor accepted the idea that, if a person denies God, or any god, that He somehow punishes you.
That's because if there is a God, and he is all loving, and all powerful, he will have no need to punish one for the human failing of denial or confusion or even betrayal. It is illogical.

Even a powerful person, who truly has real power and is balanced within themself and loving has no need for adulation nor cruelty. Self power equals compassion.

God could be no less.

That comes close to the cruelest post I have ever read.

Congratulations SMW, you have truly outdone yourself this time.
LOL..."blasphemizing."

I love new words.

"You" believe there is enough information. That is you. Some have only the words of a book and that is "enough"information.
Okay, you don't believe that there is enough evidence but that says nothing about why you reject the evidence that is there.
That link I started this thread with...would you consider that at least possible evidence for the existence of God?
Interesting that out of all the questions I asked you, you only answered that one question.

What would be enough information for me.
Seeing the universe being created by god as it happened in real time and how he supposely did it.
That would be enough to convince me.
"As it happened in real time"? It appears as though you've set your faith system up so that no matter what you can say that you don't believe, and still consider yourself reasonable.
But let's say God took you back in time, you saw creation, and you spoke to God; I suspect that as soon as you could, you would make an appointment with a psychiatrist, and try to find out why you were hallucinating...there's always a way around evidence.

Even then if he claimed to be the Judeo-Christian god and he was responsible for creating the Universe does not excuse what he did to humanity.
I would not follow him anywhere.
If you want to talk about what you see as God's ill treatment of humanity, I'm fine with it.

:lolhit: LOL..."blasphemizing."

I love new words.

Well, thank gawd for YOU. Whilst perusing the forums, I can always count on, at the very least, a giggle from something you have posted. And it came just as I looked out the window and there is this HUGE bright rainbow in the eastern sky.

That's because if there is a God, and he is all loving, and all powerful, he will have no need to punish one for the human failing of denial or confusion or even betrayal. It is illogical.

Even a powerful person, who truly has real power and is balanced within themself and loving has no need for adulation nor cruelty. Self power equals compassion.

God could be no less.

Well Said Sal.

That's because if there is a God, and he is all loving, and all powerful, he will have no need to punish one for the human failing of denial or confusion or even betrayal. It is illogical.
What rule of logic does it break?
Besides, what if God is also Supreme Judge, and perfectly Holy, and sin has to be punished?
The only way a Righteous God could satisfy both His all loving nature, and His Holy nature that requires justice, would be to come down in person and take the punishment Himself.

Even a powerful person, who truly has real power and is balanced within themself and loving has no need for adulation nor cruelty. Self power equals compassion.

God could be no less.
That's good if God fulfills only your requirements, but if He has requirements that are above yours, than they could only can be satisfied His way.

What rule of logic does it break?
Besides, what if God is also Supreme Judge, and perfectly Holy, and sin has to be punished?


What do you mean "perfectly Holy"?

And who is the one that decides that sin has to be punished?