Those sneaky christians always trying to push thier religion on others trying to hide under the first amendment but ignoring seperation of church and state.


Story Highlights• Court rules removing religious postings didn't violate teacher's rights
• Items were removed from classroom after a parent complained in 2004
• Items included depiction of George Washington praying at Valley Forge
• Rutherford Institute plans to petition Supreme Court to hear case

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RICHMOND, Virginia (AP) -- School officials did not violate a teacher's First Amendment rights when they removed Christian-themed postings from his classroom, a federal appeals court ruled Wednesday.

The postings included a flier publicizing the National Day of Prayer, a depiction of George Washington praying at Valley Forge, and articles about President Bush's religious faith and former Attorney General John Ashcroft's prayer meetings with his employees.

They were removed from William Lee's Spanish classroom at Tabb High School at the start of the 2004-05 school year after a parent complained.

Lee claimed his classroom bulletin boards were a limited public forum open for teachers' private expression and speech. But a three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals unanimously upheld a ruling that York County school officials had discretion to remove the items.

"The items do not constitute speech on a matter of public concern and are not protected by the First Amendment," Judge Robert King wrote.

Robert W. McFarland, attorney for the school officials, said he was pleased that the court backed his clients' authority over the classroom postings.

"A ruling to the contrary would mean that potentially anything and everything could be deemed a First Amendment matter that the school couldn't regulate," he said.

John Whitehead, president of The Rutherford Institute, which often takes on religious freedom cases, said it would petition the U.S. Supreme Court to consider the case.

Lee's attorney, Gary A. Bryant, did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment.

Eh... this is silly. I think he should've been able to keep the fliers up.

Sure as long as I can have a poster up in my class of a witch practicing witchcraft and worshiping the goddess Athena.

Of course. Did I say that you shouldn't be able to?

nope but five bucks if I put that up in my classroom some christian parent would demand me to take it down but the christiand praying poster would be completely acceptable to the christian poster.

The picture of Washington praying at Valley Forge should stay and it's ridiculous to demand to take it down.

It is an actual historical event:

*************************************************

"The nearest to an authentication of the Potts story of Washington's prayer in the woods seems to be supplied by the "Diary and Remembrances" of the Rev. Nathaniel Randolph Snowden, an ordained Presbyterian minister, graduate of Princeton with a degree from Dickinson College. The original is owned by the Historical Society of Pennsylvania. Mr. Snowden was born in Philadelphia January 17, 1770 and died November 12, 1851. His writings cover a period from youth to 1846. In his records may be found these observations, in Mr. Snowden's own handwriting:

"I knew personally the celebrated Quaker Potts who saw Gen'l Washington alone in the woods at prayer. I got it from himself, myself. Weems mentioned it in his history of Washington, but I got it from the man myself, as follows:
"I was riding with him (Mr. Potts) in Montgomery County, Penn'a near to the Valley Forge, where the army lay during the war of ye Revolution. Mr. Potts was a Senator in our State & a Whig. I told him I was agreeably surprised to find him a friend to his country as the Quakers were mostly Tories. He said, 'It was so and I was a rank Tory once, for I never believed that America c'd proceed against Great Britain whose fleets and armies covered the land and ocean, but something very extraordinary converted me to the Good Faith!" "What was that," I inquired? 'Do you see that woods, & that plain. It was about a quarter of a mile off from the place we were riding, as it happened.' 'There,' said he, 'laid the army of Washington. It was a most distressing time of ye war, and all were for giving up the Ship but that great and good man. In that woods pointing to a close in view, I heard a plaintive sound as, of a man at prayer. I tied my horse to a sapling & went quietly into the woods & to my astonishment I saw the great George Washington on his knees alone, with his sword on one side and his cocked hat on the other. He was at Prayer to the God of the Armies, beseeching to interpose with his Divine aid, as it was ye Crisis, & the cause of the country, of humanity & of the world."

Good point Ren.

nope but five bucks if I put that up in my classroom some christian parent would demand me to take it down but the christiand praying poster would be completely acceptable to the christian poster.

kind of like you demanding historic photographs be removed because of thier subject matter?

But for me I do not believe religion has a place in public schools. If you want religion in school go to a religious school that specializes in that sort of thing.

I think religion should be taught in schools. The school doesnt have to endorse one, but just pretending like it doesnt exist is stupid. The vast majority of people on Earth are religious in one form or another. Wars are fought over religion, countries made. Just saying it shouldnt be taught in schools is short sighted. Like it or not, religion is a powerful driving force for humanity and ignoring it wont help anyone.

PLEASE DON"T PREACH IN MY SCHOOLS AND I WON"T THINK IN YOUR CHURCH

I think religion should be taught in schools. The school doesnt have to endorse one, but just pretending like it doesnt exist is stupid. The vast majority of people on Earth are religious in one form or another. Wars are fought over religion, countries made. Just saying it shouldnt be taught in schools is short sighted. Like it or not, religion is a powerful driving force for humanity and ignoring it wont help anyone.
I think that small children are WAY too easily influenced for religion to be taught in elementary or middle schools. Plus, whose religion would you teach? It's all well and good for you to say that "religion should be taught", but when your kid comes home talking about the tenets of Islam I don't think you'd be so eager.

lol, listen to you guys. you have a problem teaching the worlds religions and what they believe in in and how they differ from one another? I guess we should just put our heads in the sand and pretend religion doesnt exist.

I don't have a problem with that at all, I just think that it's too advanced of a concept for kids under, say, age 13. For instance, my 5 year old half-sister is being raised Jewish since her mother is Jewish. My father is Catholic. He was trying to explain to her about Jesus and the differences between Judaism and Christianity. It just didn't work. She got confused, and now she professes that she wants to be Catholic because "I want to believe what daddy believes."

I also think that a lot of religious parents would have problems with their children being taught about other religions.

no one is trying to say that religion does not exist but the constition say that there is seperation of church and state and since schools are government funded religion need to be out.
It is that simple.

I think religion should be taught in schools. The school doesnt have to endorse one, but just pretending like it doesnt exist is stupid. The vast majority of people on Earth are religious in one form or another. Wars are fought over religion, countries made. Just saying it shouldnt be taught in schools is short sighted. Like it or not, religion is a powerful driving force for humanity and ignoring it wont help anyone.

They do teach religion in schools - it's called Religious Studies, or at least it was when I went to school. There is a difference between that & preaching the virtues a certain religion, which of course would be outrageous.

Religion is a societal blight. More wars, more hatred, more bigotry, more small mindness has come from religion than anything else in the history of man on this planet. Religion is like a taxation of the human soul, it quite frankly disgusts me.

Good point Drew. They do teach Religious Studies and other religion-related classes in most colleges and many high schools. I don't think religion should be taught to kids younger than 9th grade. I also don't think the classes should be required.

I think it's ok to teach religion if it's taught just like physics or chemistry would be. ie - Chapter1 - What Christians Believe, Chapter2 - What Muslims Believe, Chapter 3 - What Hindu's believe..and so on.

There is nothing wrong with education, so long as education does not mean indoctrination into a specific belief set.

There is nothing wrong with education, so long as education does not mean indoctrination into a specific belief set.

like man made global warming?

like man made global warming?

er...not really.

We have an article about one man placing some posters in his classroom the tangentially touch on religion, not espousing Christianity but simply announcing a day of prayer and showing an historical event in which one of our Founding Fathers prayed.

How does Warrior1972 begin her post?

Those sneaky christians always trying to push thier religion on others trying to hide under the first amendment but ignoring seperation of church and state.

It seems our resident warrior really has a thing against Christians. This is about the sixth or seventh thread in which she has expanded on her negative views of them.

like man made global warming?
That's not the argument on global warming nor has it ever been.

Global warming happens naturally, the question is whether man is accelerating the process that goes slowly with the pollution of the enviroment.

Perhaps it was not the argument originally but it is now. Schools are teaching that the primary cause of global warming is human activity and quashing all other, contrary views.

That's not the argument on global warming nor has it ever been.

what have you been smoking?:drinktoth

That reminds me of the discussion we had after the non existant hurricane season. All the man made global warming nutz came up and said "no one said global warming would make hurricanes worse", yet right on the front of "An Inconvienient Truth", the bible of global warming, there is a picture of a hurricane coming out of a smokestack.

Perhaps it was not the argument originally but it is now. Schools are teaching that the primary cause of global warming is human activity and quashing all other, contrary views.

Maybe the teachers are smarter than most asses in the Forum who think the opposite...