No,the idea of bouncing them,is to ricochet them to impact above the waist.
when i went thru AIT in 1986, we had to hit the legs to go.

when i went thru AIT in 1986, we had to hit the legs to go.
When I went thru Belfast from 1969-they upgraded to plastic baton rounds,they used them as lethal weapons.

When I went thru Belfast from 1969-they upgraded to plastic baton rounds,they used them as lethal weapons.
American and the English have different standards, imagine that!...or somebody learned to use them properly in that 17 year gap?

where did the mayday mêlée occur?

Not sure what you mean by the first point.
Second point, from tv,looks like LAPD.

Whoa...looks like someone came 'over-prepared'...

http://www.wusa9.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=58266

Whoa...looks like someone came 'over-prepared'...

http://www.wusa9.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=58266
sux 2 b him! good thing the police were there or things could have gotten real ugly.

It is amazing how you got that from the posts in Allforums. So far everyone who has posted against allowing illegal aliens free entry into the country has made it clear that they mean all illegal aliens, not just Hispanic ones. The Irish have been mentioned more than a few times and it is hard to be any whiter than they are.


irish may be mentioned, BUT people do not really complain about a whole bunch of irish taking peoples jobs. it's all those brown peoples that they complain about.

don't blame the illegal about wanting a job most americans won't work in the first place. blame the employer for hiring them. and no excuses about fake papers. if yer around an illegal long enough you can pretty much know who's illegal and who's not.

Mayflower Illegals, Go home!

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/7402/mayflowerprovincetownuo9.jpg

So,some posters think this is a racist issue,
some think its an erosion of American culture,
some think its purely a legal issue,
and some think that illegals undermind American workers hard fought for rights,
the vast majority agree that illegal Immigration has to stop,
I havent seen practical solution yet,any chance.

So,some posters think this is a racist issue,
some think its an erosion of American culture,
some think its purely a legal issue,
and some think that illegals undermind American workers hard fought for rights,
the vast majority agree that illegal Immigration has to stop,
I havent seen practical solution yet,any chance.


Not unless the federal and local governments crack down, hard, on the employers, of illegal aliens. As long as there is someone to hire them, they will find a way to get here.

I agree. If they can't find work, they will probably leave!




don't blame the illegal about wanting a job most americans won't work in the first place. blame the employer for hiring them. and no excuses about fake papers. if yer around an illegal long enough you can pretty much know who's illegal and who's not.

Illegal Immigration does have to stop.

First we need a good fence. Then we need to crakd down very very hard on those who hire an illegal.



So,some posters think this is a racist issue,
some think its an erosion of American culture,
some think its purely a legal issue,
and some think that illegals undermind American workers hard fought for rights,
the vast majority agree that illegal Immigration has to stop,
I havent seen practical solution yet,any chance.

Im not sure if its feasable to build a fence across the Mexico border,then another one across the Canadian border,thats a lot of fence.

We don't need one across the Canadian border, paul... Why would any Canadians want to live here?? :D

Anyways I think the FIRST order of business should be to crack down way harder on employers of illegal aliens. Then we can worry about a fence or whatever.

Agreed. Hit the employers where it counts...in their pocketbook.

Not unless the federal and local governments crack down, hard, on the employers, of illegal aliens. As long as there is someone to hire them, they will find a way to get here. Yup. All they have to do is add some ridiculously huge fine to paying immigrant workers less then minimum wage or stomp their workers rights. That destroys the incentive to hire them in the first place.

Of course you can count on the federal government wasting billios of dollars harrassing immigrants rather then going after business. Its like the drug war. Instead of going after dealers they harass users.

Agreed. Hit the employers where it counts...in their pocketbook.
a fine that would bankrupt a lawn care business wouldn't even make Wal-Mart flinch...i say put the hiring manager in jail for a week for a 1st offense and there won't be a second.:rant:

a fine that would bankrupt a lawn care business wouldn't even make Wal-Mart flinch...i say put the hiring manager in jail for a week for a 1st offense and there won't be a second.:rant:

A fine equal to one weeks gross earning, per violation, would get the attention of anyone. The second offense should result in a jail term for managers/owners.

A fine equal to one weeks gross earning, per violation, would get the attention of anyone. The second offense should result in a jail term for managers/owners.
this isn't Sweden...there i times i wish we had their means based fine structure, but i don't think our laws allow for it.

this isn't Sweden...there i times i wish we had their means based fine structure, but i don't think our laws allow for it.

Well, if Congress can approve amnesty, they can change the way fines are levied. But that would indicate a willingness to solve the problem.

they need someone to do those jobs americans won't do at such a low wage , moderate.

Its now wonder we have so many illegals in this country.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/kprc/20070509/lo_kprc/13278959

Note: The following story is a verbatim transcript of an Investigators story that aired on Tuesday, May 8, 2007, on KPRC Local 2 at 10 p.m.

Local 2 investigates murders, robberies -- violence that never had to happen. But they did at the hands of criminal illegal immigrants.

And, tonight, investigative reporter Amy Davis is here to show why these criminals are still in our neighborhoods and communities.

You might suspect when illegal immigrants are caught committing violent crimes, it means automatic deportation.

That's simply not the case. We dug through months of arrest records and immigration documents to find criminal illegal immigrants can get three, four and even six strikes, and still be allowed in our country.

You've seen these immigration rallies -- hundreds of marchers. But among these faces, you won't likely find Jimmy Ascencio, convicted of assault, evading arrest, DWI and robbery.

The chance is also slim you'll see Gonzalo Roldan, convicted of theft, burglary, auto theft, and manufacturing and delivering cocaine.

Both men were arrested, and according to the Harris County Sheriff's Department -- both admitted they are in the U.S. illegally.

But we discovered both are now out of jail and likely somewhere in the Houston area.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement holds illegal criminals at this facility on Greens Road.

It's where we watched three illegal aliens walk away, papers in hand, back into your community.

We found men charged with murder, convicted drug dealers and thieves. But, believe it or not, this is the face that frightens Grace Garcia.

"He picked up the gun, aimed it straight at my daughter and killed her," she said.

Mandi Coronado was 14 years old when her teenaged killer shot her at this apartment complex.

El Salvador national Moises Flores got five years in a juvenile detention facility and a deportation order upon his release.

But when five years passed, Garcia got a disturbing phone call.

"Immigration decided that they wouldn't pick him up," she said.

Crime victims' advocate Andy Kahan says Immigration and Customs Enforcement told him the same.

"They just flat out said that they had no interest or intention of ever deporting him," he said.

"My daughter is no longer here anymore because of him but he can be here. I just can't -- I can't deal with that," Garcia said.

After several phone calls to the Department of Homeland Security from Local 2 Investigates and Kahan, Flores was detained and scheduled to be deported.

But, this case is only the beginning of our story.

"Yeah, we were able to get this one. But how many others out there have fallen through the cracks, God knows?" Kahan said.

We know. From Jan. 1 through the end of March, 979 suspects booked into the Harris County Jail voluntarily told deputies they are illegal immigrants.

But records we obtained show ICE has only made efforts to deport 195 of those suspects in the same time period -- just 20 percent.

"What happens if somebody gets put back in society that's dangerous?" said Kris Moore, a Harris County assistant district attorney.

That "what if" has already happened.

In April, Ignacio Gutierrez-Gomez slammed his truck into this car on the Eastex Freeway, killing a mother and her pregnant daughter.

But it wasn't the illegal immigrant's first drunk driving offense. He'd already been arrested three times in the last five years for DWI.

We wanted to talk with Immigration and Customs Enforcement about what we found. Since February, we sent 25 e-mails requesting an on-camera interview. The agency's spokesperson declined each time.

She did send these statements:

"Each case is complex and each case is viewed individually."

"If you have cases you feel perhaps need to be reviewed, please allow ICE the opportunity to review the cases. We will make every effort to make sure these criminal aliens are not released into the community."

But they're already out.

And we found many of the convicts have moved from the addresses they gave when booked into the jail.

"I don't know what holds them up from acting, but they can't seem to act in a timely manner in most cases," Moore said.

Assistant District Attorney Chris Moore has prosecuted criminals in Harris County for 30 years but says her efforts to work with ICE getting illegal convicts deported is more than frustrating.

"Cause I've tried to call them, and you can't even get automated answering. You can't get through, period," she said.

"I was born and raised here. Mandi was born and raised here," Garcia said.

And with her daughter's killer deported, Garcia hopes Mandi can finally rest here.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement started a new program with Harris County last October where ICE agents work in the jail to identity illegal immigrants as they are booked in.

ICE says they do not have agents there 24 hours a day. But in the future, they hope to be able to keep agents there around the clock.

"Amy, what are the most common crimes landing illegal immigrants in the Harris County jail?" a KPRC anchor asked.

"We found most of the suspects, about 17 percent, have three or more crimes on their records already when they are booked into the jail. But the single most frequent crime we saw over and over in these arrest records -- drinking and driving," Davis answered.

Wtf?!?!

they need someone to do those jobs americans won't do at such a low wage , moderate.

That is just it Ivan no one should be working for those kinds of wages unless you are a slave you cannot pay for your basic needs on this low of wages and why should people work thier asses off for nothing while some rich guy lines his pockets for millions of dollars?

Three of the six men who planned on killing people at Fort Dix were illegal aliens. We are much too lax when it comes to policing our borders. All illegal aliens should be sent back to their home country.

Three of the six men who planned on killing people at Fort Dix were illegal aliens. We are much too lax when it comes to policing our borders. All illegal aliens should be sent back to their home country. heh...yeah those 6 guys would have caused a ton of harm to a Military base...jesus...They should have just put the military base on alert when the shit was going to go down to make examples of these asshats.

Three of the six men who planned on killing people at Fort Dix were illegal aliens. We are much too lax when it comes to policing our borders. All illegal aliens should be sent back to their home country.
These six morons should be tested for stupidness,what they thought they were gonna do is beyond me.

These six morons should be tested for stupidness,what they thought they were gonna do is beyond me.
Tested for stupidness? That's a funny concept....

Stupidness is a deportation offence

Stupidness is a deportation offence
I wish it were in America...we'd have less than 100 million people left. :D

That is just it Ivan no one should be working for those kinds of wages unless you are a slave you cannot pay for your basic needs on this low of wages and why should people work thier asses off for nothing while some rich guy lines his pockets for millions of dollars?


i know. when the illegals and all others finally pull their heads out of their asses and stop doing those low wage jobs, they WILL have to do something. close up shop or pay more. but people don't have the balls to do anything. just a bunch of slaves.

"it doesn't matter if you are in chains, or an indentured servant or in debt, slavery is slavery."

john trudell.