How do we know there is a god?
I have wondered this a lot the last few days.
How can there be a god if he lets bad things happen to good people?
How many bad things does one person have to go through before they die?
Why does he let people suffer so much and not give them a light at the end of the tunnel?

I understand why people take their lives when they feel they have failed or see no hope in sight. Does it make it right, NO.
I guess we just have to carry on and keep going and hope that one day we die and it was worth something...our life or that we touched on person with our life.

Where does the notion come from that God owes you something?

He's an all-powerful God, he's a loving God, and just because bad things happen doesn't mean it's "punishment"... i've had bad things happen to me that in the end made me a better man.

We are all sinful creatures, born into sin... just get tight with God, and he'll save a chair for ya up there.

At least that's the theory... can't prove there's God, and I've wondered if there isn't one many times.

But I'd die in the name of God... just like patriots died for their country, it's something they believed in.

How do we know there is a god?We don't.
How can there be a god if he lets bad things happen to good people?If there is a god perhaps he doesn't care, or is malicious, or is stupid, or is incompetent.
How many bad things does one person have to go through before they die?It varies very unfairly.
I guess we just have to carry on and keep going and hope that one day we die and it was worth something...our life or that we touched on person with our life.Another option, instead of hoping a big invisible magic person will make it all okay one day, is to remember the moment. Find a job you enjoy, surround yourself with people who love you, live healthily and feel well - those sorts of things.

You sound like Dr. Pangloss: we suffer because God just can't to any better than he has if we are to have free will.

The reason we suffer is mostly biology. We have evolved over the eons into beings that are aware but even now cannot do much about our situation. Our bodies are frail and subject to all kinds of injury and breakdown and infection, and don't last very long anyway.

This is because natural selection is a blind force without feelings; it does what it does automatically just as water runs downhill. What is preserved is genetic information, into the next generation. Once we have reproduced natural selection is done with us, and it doesn't even need all of us to reproduce--so long as a few do it can use the rest of us as cannon fodder to satiate the predators.

That human being think there is a benign deity testifies to their wishful thinking overcoming reality. The reality is that life is cheap in nature and all animals live short lives trapped by instincts and full of fear and hunger and pain.

This is the reality with human beings too, although we can palliate the suffering's most obvious manifestations much of the time with technology, we still suffer.

If there is a god perhaps he doesn't care, or is malicious, or is stupid, or is incompetent.
I'm leaning towards incompetent.

I'm leaning towards incompetent.
This explains the holy trinity.

http://www.voicechoice.com/images/3stooges.jpg

That was rather mean spirited, Evakian. As so often happens here in Allforums when God or religion is discussed those who do not believe have to get in their nasty digs. I really feel sorry for those people.


My belief in God is based on faith, not empirical knowledge. If I demanded proof that would not be faith.

That was rather mean spirited, Evakian. As so often happens here in Allforums when God or religion is discussed those who do not believe have to get in their nasty digs. I really feel sorry for those people.
I feel sorry for people that try to inspire guilt from light-hearted jokes. It's nothing short of sad.

Comparing the Trinity to the Three Stooges is not a light hearted joke. There are jokes I could make about things I know about you that I do not make because I know they would be hurtful. If you want to consider them light hearted little jokes just let me know and I will start posting light hearted jokes about stuff you have told me is important to you.

Comparing the Trinity to the Three Stooges is not a light hearted joke.
Since my intent was, so was the joke.
How do we know there is a god?
To address the initial post, Blob was right--we don't. It is all just a matter of what we'd like the world to be, and that is to be protected by something powerful. The idea of deities often functions as just a mental security measure, and is just extrapolation on humanity's part; not grounded in fact.

There are jokes I could make about things I know about you that I do not make because I know they would be hurtful. If you want to consider them light hearted little jokes just let me know and I will start posting light hearted jokes about stuff you have told me is important to you.What's this? Blackmail?

Star Wars is important to me. Don't make me get Yoda all up in yo' hizzy~!

Sedan,

If Evakian feels posting things he knows will be hurtful to others is funny, or simply a light hearted joke I am sure he would feel the same if someone posted things that are important to him as a light hearted joke. Since the intent of the poster would be to be funny I wouldn't expect him to be at all upset. Me knowing that they are things that are important to him would make them that much funnier, or at least that seems to be the way Evakian feels.

The person who knows that there is a God without ever any doubt, and the person who knows that there isn't a God without ever any doubt, have at least one thing in common.

They are both liars.

I sometimes have doubts. I think all religious people do. That is not to say that I don't believe in God, just that I am human.

Same here Frogger.

I just think it's intellectually dishonest to be "absolutely sure" either way.

Wow, it's amazing how you know how other people feel frogger. I mean people you don't even know! When I posted a site and some crazy apologist attacked me and called me a coward you agreed with them and said they did it in a cleaver way. Your obviously not right all the time!

Same here Frogger.

I just think it's intellectually dishonest to be "absolutely sure" either way.

So very true.


I sometimes have doubts. I think all religious people do. That is not to say that I don't believe in God, just that I am human.

I seen this as a truth with this last visit from my parents. Daddy never had any doubts in the past years that there was a god and had no issue force feeding it down anyones throat he came in contact with.

What has changed was, a few months ago a tornado hit down in Florida,a few short miles from him. He was awaken and seen it coming. Since then he has been so much more mellower and lax about pushing god down others throats. I can honestly say this visit was the best one I've ever had with my parents in the past 30 years.

Instead of being so 'locked in' and 'unquestioning' about god, he was more open minded and finally asked me my thoughts on god. After I told him he didn't fly off the handle, tell me I was wrong and going to hell, nothing. He finally listened for once.
I wish the tornado would have came 20 years ago, :)

I have more respect for him and other believers that at least open their minds enough to question other possible avenues and hold nothing as a truth.

We don't.
If there is a god perhaps he doesn't care, or is malicious, or is stupid, or is incompetent.
It varies very unfairly.
Another option, instead of hoping a big invisible magic person will make it all okay one day, is to remember the moment. Find a job you enjoy, surround yourself with people who love you, live healthily and feel well - those sorts of things.

Blob;
This is how I believe.
When do good things start to happen.
You try and live a good life and be fair to all and be loving and compassionate but life has a way of hurting you at every turn.
How do you stop from being bitter and mean?
Perhaps he is not real and we try to believe just so we feel better.
I know a lot are going to hate what I am saying and for those that have a strong belief in god I am glad for you and do not minimize your beliefs.
Maybe my problem is I don't know what to believe, maybe if I had more faith more good things would happen and not as many bad things.
What lessons are we suppose to learn from all the bad things?
That life sucks then you die!
I love my life and my job and I try and be a good person. I am loyal to my friends and family and would do anything for them. Why is that not enough?

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b222/godsandmen/religion/cartoons/math07.gif

I thank God my parents weren't religious.

They never forced us to go to church and never went themselves. My Dad went maybe twice and my mom not at all. Whatever their beliefs were, they kept it to themselves. Both were raised as halfhearted Christians, but fell away in adulthood. I suppose they'd call themselves Christian if asked.

My Grandma was very religious (Presbyterian) tho you'd never know it. She kept her faith to herself. She took us to Sunday School now and then but never forced us to go. We all just saw the life she lived and how happy she seemed.

A stellar example that.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b222/godsandmen/religion/cartoons/027_schuller-desert.gif

I thank God my parents weren't religious.

They never forced us to go to church and never went themselves. My Dad went maybe twice and my mom not at all. Whatever their beliefs were, they kept it to themselves. Both were raised as halfhearted Christians, but fell away in adulthood. I suppose they'd call themselves Christian if asked.

My Grandma was very religious (Presbyterian) tho you'd never know it. She kept her faith to herself. She took us to Sunday School now and then but never forced us to go. We all just saw the life she lived and how happy she seemed.

A stellar example that.

As it should be, Ren. I let my kids come to their own decision and don't persuade them one way or the other. If they want to go to church, fine. If not, ok too.
I've never been. When I was young, my daddy was the most evil man alive. Honest. He drank, smoked, did drugs, fought, slept around, cursed, drag raced, ran from the cops, partied all the time, everyone feared him: then he says god changed him and stopped it all. I find it so hard to believe. Now he's a world wide minister, I can't wrap my head around it.

I agree with you. Being religious is fine, live it and don't push it on folk.

Short Stuff.

If God gives evidence and proofs of his/her/its reality to a person, individually then God is real.

If God does not give evidence and proofs that he/she/it is real to a person, individually then God is not real.

Only God can Prove or disprove Gods own existance. As for the physical world and why God (if he/she/it is real) allows it to be so thoughly screwed up this is my belief

God has controll of the Spiritual Realm. He/She/It does not controll the physical world. The physical world is for us, not Him/Her/It. We were granted Free Will, He/She/It cannot interfere in the physical World without denying Free Will in the Process.

The Physical World is a training ground for the Spiritual Realm. We are born into it, We Die, We are Reborn into it, We Die, Until we have learned all that we can learn and can move on to the Spiritual Realm. While God will have personal and individual Relationships with people, these relationships are personal and individual. Yes he will help to protect and Guide those that have relationships with Him/Her/It but cannot or will not interfere in the physical World beyond that.

I believe that when God created Life He/She/It broke off pieces of It's/Hers/His Essense and added a Spiritual Life to the the physical Form (not including Gollums). That this Essence is Our Souls or Contencious if you will. That God experiences The Physical Life through this Spiritual connection with us. Yes there is Pain and Suffering in the Physical Realm. But If you have an eternal soul and the Physical Life lived is a mere fraction of a fraction of your Spiritual life, then is not that Micro Second of pain or suffering worth having an Eternal Spiritual Life?

And Of Course I cannot prove a Damn thing that I say, Just like everyone else cannot prove their beliefs.

How do we know there is a god?
Blob's and Frogger's approaches are both good. Although they are seemingly very different, the underlying idea points to the same thing:

if you step out of the bounds of faith and starts trying to justify religions with tools of reason and experiments, not only do absurdities occur (which Blob pointed out) but faith loses its importance to proofs and you are no longing dealing with "religion" in the classical sense (Frogger's point), instead you are trying to make it a science.

I once again invite all to enjoy the wonderful article on Theodicy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy) I linked earlier. As it touches on this topic quite well.

Blob's and Frogger's approaches are both good. Although they are seemingly very different, the underlying idea points to the same thing:

if you step out of the bounds of faith and starts trying to justify religions with tools of reason and experiments, not only do absurdities occur (which Blob pointed out) but faith loses its importance to proofs and you are no longing dealing with "religion" in the classical sense (Frogger's point), instead you are trying to make it a science.

I once again invite all to enjoy the wonderful article on Theodicy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodicy) I linked earlier. As it touches on this topic quite well.
Thanks Dio Seijuro
I see what you are saying and respect how you broke that down in such a way.
Right now I am angry and feeling weird about this whole god thing.
I guess growing up in a home where we were not allowed religion, I have come to be a person that questions every facet of it. Not to pick it apart but to learn and try and have faith that there is something better and that we are all part of a bigger plan per say. I don't know what I am suppose to learn from all of my life lessons.
On one hand I want to have faith there is something out there that is the all being and guilds us to the right place and on the other hand I feel god is such a crock of shit. If he were real why would he give some one so many bad things that have happened to them.

I'm leaning towards incompetent.

If he created everything.. i'd say he's more than qualified...

know anyone else who can create matter?

If he created everything.. i'd say he's more than qualified...

know anyone else who can create matter?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_(band)

If he created everything.. i'd say he's more than qualified...

know anyone else who can create matter?
Matter is created and destroyed all the time inside stars.

Sedan,

If Evakian feels posting things he knows will be hurtful to others is funny, or simply a light hearted joke I am sure he would feel the same if someone posted things that are important to him as a light hearted joke. Since the intent of the poster would be to be funny I wouldn't expect him to be at all upset. Me knowing that they are things that are important to him would make them that much funnier, or at least that seems to be the way Evakian feels.I dunno, Frogger. When you say things like I will start posting light hearted jokes about stuff you have told me is important to you it sounds like a threat to me. It also brings to mind a few things you have said in some other threads. Here's one:How sharper than a serpent's tooth is an ungrateful child.

Remember when you needed a shoulder to cry on, Evakian. Who's shoulder did you pick?Here's another:I am against all bannings unless someone divulges personal information about another poster without that poster's permission.

Perhaps it's like "I think, therefore I am"... if people think there is a god, then there is one.

"I think therfore I am" is a matter of self conscience, not whether there is a god or not.

Matter is created and destroyed all the time inside stars.

"stars" doesn't happen to reside in the red-light district.. does he/she?

"I think therfore I am" is a matter of self conscience, not whether there is a god or not.True, but it's the best analogy I could think of... besides maybe the Santa Claus analogy.

True, but it's the best analogy I could think of... besides maybe the Santa Claus analogy.

Maybe something like "If you believe something enough it will come true." At least it will come true for the person that believes.

"stars" doesn't happen to reside in the red-light district.. does he/she?
I take it you see your mistake then, and will not again assert that matter cannot be created.

I take it you see your mistake then, and will not again assert that matter cannot be created.

I'm looking for a PERSON who can create matter, not a cloud of dust.

Wow, it's amazing how you know how other people feel frogger. I mean people you don't even know! When I posted a site and some crazy apologist attacked me and called me a coward you agreed with them and said they did it in a cleaver way. Your obviously not right all the time!

I didn't say you were a coward. I said you were attacking religion. Only you know if you are a coward.

Thanks for the site, Dio Seijuro. I am impressed that someone who isn't studying religion formally has read it. It isn't the easiest reading in the world.

Free Process Theodicy seems to make the most sense in my mind. At least it is closest to what I personally believe.

I finally figured it out as I sit here having a few drinks
It is not for us to know. That is the joke..
Faith is all we have and all we have to go on so if we don't have either we are fucked.
Hummmmmm I guess I am going to hell in a hand bag.
I guess as long as we can sleep at night and our conscious is clear we are good to go.

I thank God my parents weren't religious.

Rendova, didn't the absurdity of this statement jump out at you before you posted it? You are thanking God for your parents not being religious because that made you basically non-religious. Thanking God is being religious.

Either this is a completely illogical statement or I am missing something.

Ha, that is kind of an oxymoron isn't it?

Ha, that is kind of an oxymoron isn't it?
and funny as hell:lolhit:

Either this is a completely illogical statement or I am missing something.My guess: I think you are missing that it was tongue-in-cheek use of ironic phrasing, Frogger.

At least I pray that's what it was. ;)

I meant my parents weren't aggressively, rudely, controllingly religious.

Dad nd Grandma taught us to READ, lol.

Our old neighbors were aggressive fundamentalists. I truly felt sorry for their kids. The parents taught them there were no dinosaurs and that the fossilized bones found were just put on earth by the Devil to trick us and turn us from the Lord. The girls weren't allowed to play with Barbie dolls and there was no tv or music as it was sinful and the Devil's work.

Let's face it, the parents were wierdos. And they were raising their kids to be as ignorant as they were themselves. It saddened me to see the kids brainwashed like that.

PS Lest I look like I'm unfairly targetting Fundamentalists for being ignorant, I'll mention my ex in laws, all cradle Catholics, who would burn palm leaves blessed by a priest in the belief that this would ward off thunderstorms.

Yes, this in the 21st century.

Ignorance is not confined to one sole denomination or belief system.

"Give me child until he's seven years old and he'll be mine forever."

St. Ignatius Loyola

God exists only to those that he has given proof to that he does in fact exist. God Does not exist if God has not given the proof or evidence needed for someone to believe in him.

Yes God Exists, No God does not exist. Both are right.

If god isn't real then why do we even talk about god?

tucker58

Unicorns do not exist but we talk about them. Whats your point?

Unicorns do not exist but we talk about them. Whats your point?


Yeah, but I havent seen any assholes plaster 6 pages worth of nasty crap any where they can, about Unicorns lately.

Yeah, but I havent seen any assholes plaster 6 pages worth of nasty crap any where they can, about Unicorns lately.
Do billions of people worship unicorns and use unicorns to justify backwards morals and bigotries?

Do billions of people worship unicorns and use unicorns to justify backwards morals and bigotries?

Nope, I see just as many Atheist bigots with backwards morals as I see Christians.
So, maybe you should ask why billions of people are Christians and why millions of other people are just assholes.

Nope, I see just as many Atheist bigots with backwards morals as I see Christians.
Since that is statistically impossible judging from religious demographics, I'll shrug this off.
So, maybe you should ask why billions of people are Christians and why millions of other people are just assholes.
Because most people lack intelligence.

Because most people lack intelligence.

"Since that is statistically impossible judging from religious demographics, I'll shrug this off."

"Since that is statistically impossible judging from religious demographics, I'll shrug this off."
With over 85% of the world ascribing to a religion, conclusions can indeed be drawn from the statistics about the intelligence of the population. :D

Yeah, but I havent seen any assholes plaster 6 pages worth of nasty crap any where they can, about Unicorns lately.

Oh please just people making fun of christians. Big fucking deal get a sense of humor. Post some fun stuff about evolution or something or funny post about what Christians think of Athiest and agnostic.

I never posted anything to hurt christians or say we should get rid of them. Just some stuff that is funny and true about them.

You just mad because not everyone is coddling your religion. Get over it already.

Nope, I see just as many Atheist bigots with backwards morals as I see Christians.
So, maybe you should ask why billions of people are Christians and why millions of other people are just assholes.


Oh and christians are impossible to be assholes! ROFLMAO!!
Why would anyone be angry at Christians? maybe it is because they attack people for believing in evolution, don't follow the bible and think on thier own.

You people cannot stand it if others do not believe the exact same way as you do.

Oh please just people making fun of christians. Big fucking deal get a sense of humor. Post some fun stuff about evolution or something or funny post about what Christians think of Athiest and agnostic.

I never posted anything to hurt christians or say we should get rid of them. Just some stuff that is funny and true about them.

You just mad because not everyone is coddling your religion. Get over it already.

Warrior :) The Garden of Eden was back in the days when the Earth was watered by "dew". The last time the Earth was watered by "dew" was 60 to 65 million years ago. :) The Christians think that it was 6 thousand years ago. There is the possiblity that the Bible left off some of the zeros of the ages of the "begots" :) Methuselah lived 8 million years, not 8 hundred years :)

Tucker58

Warrior :) The Garden of Eden was back in the days when the Earth was watered by "dew". The last time the Earth was watered by "dew" was 60 to 65 million years ago. :) The Christians think that it was 6 thousand years ago. There is the possiblity that the Bible left off some of the zeros of the ages of the "begots" :) Methuselah lived 8 million years, not 8 hundred years :)

Tucker58
Welcome tucker, hope you stick around. One word of advice: Warrior is going to give you crap for everything, so it's best to keep your distance.

oh please that is not true
I never give Dharm crap, Overdose,freethinker,brooks and many others.

Nice try though.

The only reason he should keep his distance away from me because half of the board will become his enemy and harass him to death over stupid stuff like grammer and news topics in the news section not being news enough to be posted there. LOL.

So Tucker enter at your own risk.

we know there is a god because all the nut jobs that drown thier kids in the bathtub claim god told them to do it.

With over 85% of the world ascribing to a religion, conclusions can indeed be drawn from the statistics about the intelligence of the population. :D

lol

I dont see where it would make your claim true.

Oh please just people making fun of christians. Big fucking deal get a sense of humor. Post some fun stuff about evolution or something or funny post about what Christians think of Athiest and agnostic.

I never posted anything to hurt christians or say we should get rid of them. Just some stuff that is funny and true about them.

You just mad because not everyone is coddling your religion. Get over it already.

I dont want to offend anyone else, so I'll just make fun of you. Sense you dont seem to mind.

Youre so fat you need a VCR for a pager
Youre so fat the back of your neck looks like a pack of hotdogs
Youre so fat that your belly button makes an echo
Youre so fat your cerial bowl comes with a lifeguard
Youre so fat when you walk past window we lose four days of sun light
Youre so fat you had to get baptised at sea world
Youre so fat when you fell over, you rocked yourself to sleep tryin to get back up again
Youre so fat and stupid, when it was raining you used the freeway for a slip and slide
Youre so fat that when the whales saw you they started singing "we are family"
Youre so fat when you go to a restaurant you have to be greased in and out of the boothes
Youre so fat you were attacked by japenese mlitary, they thought you were godzillas wife.
Youre so fat when you went on school feild trips the school had to raise fund to feed you.
Youre so fat you make free willy look like a goldfish
Youre so fat the only thing stopping you from going to Jenny Crage is the door
Youre so fat last time you seen 90210 is on the scale
Youre so big when God said let there be light, he asked you to move.
Youre so fat, when you walk out of the candy store with a red turtle neck on people start yellin "Kool Aid".
Youre so fat you use the ocean as a bath tub
Youre so fat when you missed the school bus you yelled "some one catch my twinky"!

I ran in to warrior one day in my truck on my way to work, while she was crossing the street. She asked me, "Why didn't you go around me?"

"I didn't have enough gas!"

please oh god I am 160 lbs not 420 or some crazy shit like that.

How about your mama jokes!!

So Cheap

Your mamma is so cheap, she hangs the toilet paper out to dry.

So Stupid

Your mama is so stupid, she bought a glass door with a peephole.

Your mama's so dumb, she took a ruler to bed to see how long she slept.

Your mama is so dumb, she saw a sign that said "Wet Floor" so she did.

Your mama's so stupid she thought a walk-in closet cam with legs

Your moma is so stupid, instead of sitting on the couch and watching TV, she sits on the TV and watches the couch.

Your mama's so stupid she put the operator on speed dial.

Your mama is so dumb that when she went to a rated R movie that siad un on under 17 allowed in, so she went back home to get 16 more of her friends :also stupid).

Your mama is so stupid she put a quarter in a parking meter and waited for a gumball to come out.

So Slutty

Your mama is like an elevator; if you push the right button she'll always go down.

Your mama is like a chipmunk; her cheeks are always packed full of nuts!

So Fat

Your mama is so fat, she steps on a dollar and gets four quarters.

Your mama is so fat that when she stood on her bathroom scale, it said "TO BE CONTINUED."

So *@(*&($*^

Your mama's teeth are so yellow I can't believe its not butter.

Your mama's so old she went to an antique parlor and they kept her.

How about you both get back on topic...

How about you both get back on topic...

Whats the topic?

please oh god I am 160 lbs



The fat jokes I left are yo momma jokes converted. You freakin Heffer.

Thine matriach is so gargantuan that not even our lord and savior Jesus Christ could heave her ghastly spirit into the heavens! She hath stretch marks laden all about her very tunic!

lol

I dont see where it would make your claim true.
A bit of syllogism does so.

Religionists have a lesser intelligence than secularists.
Secularists are a minority of the population.
Therefore, a majority of the population is of lesser intelligence.

Now, all that typing and look what I've proved--absolutely nothing!

The fat jokes I left are yo momma jokes converted. You freakin Heffer.

:upyours:

What I totally expect from a so called Christian LOL

You only prove my point that your bible is foul because it creates foul people like yourself.

Which I find this funny. Homosexuals are not allowed in your church because they live in sin but your church is full of fat asses who commite the deadly sin of gluttony. Why do they get a free pass while the homosexuals get the boot.. Mmmm maybe because 60 percent of your congregation is gluttons and your church would fall if you dumped them all.

"sniff sniff sniff" I smell hypocrocy!! oh no not from a christian and christian whom christ specifically said turn the other check yet calls me a heffer. ROFLMAO!!

:lolhit:

"sniff sniff sniff" I smell hypocrocy!!
Sweetie you can't give names of abstract ideas to your farts.
oh no not from a christian and christian whom christ specifically said turn the other check yet calls me a heffer. ROFLMAO!!
Bouncy! Bouncy! My nipples explode with delight!

please oh god I am 160 lbs





.


Yeah, but you're only 2 feet tall.

You NEVER should have mentioned yr weight, (or your artwork), Glenda.
You simply CANNOT give me a weapon like that to use.
Don't like it??


Whatever ......... put me on ignore, you silly oaf.

I am 5'0
Please stop exaggerating everything.
I can handle anything you dish out troll! Just love following me around harassing the shit out of me with your stupidity. Having nothing better to do but to stick it to me.
HA!

I mean wow your life must be so fullfilling to make it your lifes mission to maker personaly stabs at me.

1) How do we know there is a god?
I have wondered this a lot the last few days.
2) How can there be a god if he lets bad things happen to good people?
How many bad things does one person have to go through before they die?
Why does he let people suffer so much and not give them a light at the end of the tunnel?
3) I understand why people take their lives when they feel they have failed or see no hope in sight. Does it make it right, NO.
I guess we just have to carry on and keep going and hope that one day we die and it was worth something...
4) our life or that we touched on person with our life.

Here are my thoughts...
1) My inner feelings tell me that God is everything good spiritually that we all have inside of us. He is everything and we are all part of Him. He is not an individual being. He is the light.
2) We have fallen from God and to find our way back we must learn lessons. Those who suffer most may be the ones who have chosen hardships and worse to find their way back to God sooner by learning lessons thru suffering on Earth. Others who suffer may be condemned to learn lessons because of their evil course.
3) When you lose sight of God, you may lose faith and give up. Those who have given up in this life will have opportunities beyond this life to find their way back to God.
4) When we make sacrifices and help others we receive light, which brings us closer to God.

Well, given that in the big 3 western religions, God is considered unknowable, it would seem impossible to achieve certainty on the matter. Still, it doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

Ponder this: Is God a god of space, and there for infinite but passive and impotent? Or, is God a god of matter and energy, and while being omnipotent, is no longer infinite? If the first is true, then knowlege of God is both impossible and irrelevant, as God has no power. The second option provides us with more hope, if perhaps it is more disillusioning. Even if one were to throw out the rules and say that God is both the god of space and matter, we still have hope of understanding at least the physical nature of god.

Both hobbes and Newton were materialists and viewed the universe as one giant deterministic machine, they still accepted the idea of God. If a being were to achieve total knowlege of all forces and all matter in the universe, then that being could determine all that was, is, and ever will be. It's similar to knowing the terms 32, 64, 128, 256... and from that, determining the pattern and what any term in the sequence.

In attempting to understand the finite portion of God, effort must be given to both faith and reason. By using each correctly, the truth may be revealed. Reason points to that which is true and faith expands upon that truth to find the greater truth. In a sense, everything in existence would be evidence of God (this also coincides with the deterministic view of things) and that through faith, we may divine the purpose of this existence.

In short, we may know God, but not all of God. Very similar, by reading posts on this board, we may know something about the posters, but we may not be able to determine everything about them.

"sniff sniff sniff" I smell hypocrocy!! oh no not from a christian and christian whom christ specifically said turn the other check yet calls me a heffer. ROFLMAO!!

:lolhit:

Will turnning the other cheek make you not a heffer?
5' and 160, sounds heffer to me.
Besides it was in fun, remember?

You said so yourself and here you are getting all unruly.

whatever. Denying that we are related to apes through 98 percent of our genes says everything about your intelligents or state of denial about the reality of things.

whatever. Denying that we are related to apes through 98 percent of our genes says everything about your intelligents or state of denial about the reality of things.

Who ever said I denied it?

To be completely honest, I'd say I know more then you do about evolution.
Natural selection is my favorite subject when it comes to evolution. So I could probably explain what you have said here far better then you could.

so you believe in evolution? that we decended from apes?and gravity?

Ok then I am wrong. If you do not deny science than I take it back. I apologize.

so you believe in evolution? that we decended from apes?and gravity?

Ok then I am wrong. If you do not deny science than I take it back. I apologize.


I dont deny it, theres a big difference between recognising something and believing in it.
Evolution isnt something to "believe" in. Its something to understand.

I am 5'0
Please stop exaggerating everything.
I can handle anything you dish out troll! Just love following me around harassing the shit out of me with your stupidity. Having nothing better to do but to stick it to me.
HA!

I mean wow your life must be so fullfilling to make it your lifes mission to maker personaly stabs at me.


True, all true.....Troll?
Just one of my many aliases, Rembrandt.
As for the rest of your "post"...ah, if only I were as talented with words as you are with your crayons, O Wise and Weighty One:



http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9536/bunnyslippersandeastereqo9.jpg



"Bunny slippers" by Glenda Van Gogh, during her "early" period...note how the great artist's bashing of religion doesn't prevent her from trying to make a cheap buck off of it.
Contact Glenda for price in the unlikely event you wish to purchase---remember, if you have to ask how much it costs,, you can't afford it.



Note to other posters---I'm almost done now......

Oh god that drawing took like 3 hours to draw. I draw those pictures for fun not serious art. They are for the masses and not a real attempt at " high brow" art. As I said before I can draw realistic art that look exactly like the still life or photo that I am drawing but I do not see spending 3 days on a drawing when I an take a fucking photo graph. I have mastered drawing. I can draw just about anything but I prefer to make cartoon like, kid drawing that are friendly and fun. I think it is a cute picture and I have sold about 200 greeting cards last easter and that is without my website being advertized.

Please go on... I am sorry you think you know what your are talking about. Trying to make personal stabs that you think actually bother me.

I will let you in on a little secret when you grow up as a little child with a mother who calls you a slut and whore and leaves you with child molesters and don't believe you when you tell them adult men put your hands in your pants you can't get more hurt than that.

You keep making your petty insults to try and hurt me but what you do not realize I have felt the worst pain and betrayal that a little kid can feel and nothing can ever compare and touch that. Not you..not anyone on this board.

I am numb to it because you are just a peon on a message board some stranger sitting on at the computer making pathetic attempt to get even with someone who hurt your ego or whatever it is you are trying to take revenge out on me about. Your opinion means absolutly nothing to me. I learned long ago who was important in this world and who is not and you sir are not important. I am sorry I have to tell you that..but if it gives you some satisfaction you go right ahead. I mean hell it may even be theraputical for you who knows.

but you don't phase me honey. If that is your ultimate goal.

:)

:hahanot:

:corn:

I would be remiss, Glenda, if I didn't post a picture of YOU as well.

It's entitled--"Portrait of the Artist as a Fat Woman"--anyone who wants to buy it, (cheap), PM me.


http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/5794/fatwomensa8.jpg

Thread reported.

In fact, every time a thread gets ruined because of certain people, it's getting reported. Then perhaps the mods will do something about it.

yes I am sure I am the only one who will get into trouble. I mean Jerejare said to stay on topic and involitle post about how fat I am. OH people so listen around here. Involitle will get nothing and neither will Rendeva for harassing me but I am sure I will get banned or whatever because it is competely all my fault.
Whatever.

Thread reported.

In fact, every time a thread gets ruined because of certain people, it's getting reported. Then perhaps the mods will do something about it.


Are you for real?
I should find that post Vile made about how things just flow around here.
But I'm way to lazy to.

Seriously, this thread turned into petty insults. Get back to the topic

Welcome tucker, hope you stick around. One word of advice: Warrior is going to give you crap for everything, so it's best to keep your distance.

Hi Evakian and thank you!

I wish that I had the sense to do as you suggest :) my problem with Warrior is that I like him, he is totally "rogue" :)

Anyway thank you again Evakian for the welcome and the advice, it is appreciated!

Tucker58

oh please that is not true
I never give Dharm crap, Overdose,freethinker,brooks and many others.

Nice try though.

The only reason he should keep his distance away from me because half of the board will become his enemy and harass him to death over stupid stuff like grammer and news topics in the news section not being news enough to be posted there. LOL.

So Tucker enter at your own risk.

Warrior I thought that was why we hang out on messageboards :) Warrior I don't think that anybody actually hates you. You might cause them to pull their hair out abit :) but I don't think that they actually hate you.

So How Do We Know There Is A God? Because Warriar is "pissed" at him :) therefore God has to exist. Warrior would not waste his time with something that is not real :)

Tucker58

Tucker - fyi...warrior is a female.

Tucker - fyi...warrior is a female.

Hey godsandmen :) thanks for the heads up! I guess she and I don't know each other, I think that I have stepped in now :) EEK!

I hate messageboards! :) I really do you know :)

There is a reason why I am named after the dog!

Boy am I going to get my "butt" kicked! I grew up in a female dominated family and was trained by my Mother :) no man can handle me :) or anybody handle her :)

My Mother has our state terrorized, our county terrorized, our city terrorized, and Her whole family terrorized :) And She is just a little old lady with demintia running around loose. I love it! And now I have "pissed" off Warrior, who is of the "female persursion!" Ah man!

Thank you again godsandmen for the heads up. I am glad that Warrior is female, men are way too slow :)

Tucker58

You didn't piss me off or anything.

Look I do not hate god. I dislike the Judeo-christians versions of him. I personally do not believe that this kind of god existed. If he did I would not follow him.

I believe god is a being could care less what humans do and couldn't bother with worship, praise or thanks. He/she/it/them simply do not have an ego to be stroked.

Wow I didn't actually read your post, but that's a lot of smileys...

Warrior...

I just checked out your website. Some nice stuff there. You should really advertise or network though.

I am also an artist. If you are interested in checking out my work, see the link in my profile.

By Marilyn Adamson
proof of God

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Download PDF version

Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.

But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.

When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...
1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

existence of GodThe Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4

Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

proof of GodWater is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5

Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6
2. Does God exist? The human brain's complexity shows a higher intelligence behind it.

The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

existence of GodThe human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. A brain that deals with more than a million pieces of information every second, while evaluating its importance and allowing you to act on the most pertinent information... did it come about just by chance? Was it merely biological causes, perfectly forming the right tissue, blood flow, neurons, structure? The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people. How does one explain the human brain?
3. Does God exist? "Chance" or "natural causes" are insufficient explanations.

The alternative to God existing is that all that exists around us came about by natural cause and random chance. If someone is rolling dice, the odds of rolling a pair of sixes is one thing. But the odds of spots appearing on blank dice is something else. What Pasteur attempted to prove centuries ago, science confirms, that life cannot arise from non-life. Where did human, animal, plant life come from?

Also, natural causes are an inadequate explanation for the amount of precise information contained in human DNA. A person who discounts God is left with the conclusion that all of this came about without cause, without design, and is merely good fortune. It is intellectually wanting to observe intricate design and attribute it to luck.
4. Does God exist? To state with certainty that there is no God, a person has to ignore the passion of an enormously vast number of people who are convinced that there is a God.

This is not to say that if enough people believe something it is therefore true. Scientists, for example, have discovered new truths about the universe which overruled previous conclusions. But as science has progressed, no scientific discovery has countered the numerical likelihood of an intelligent mind being behind it all. In fact, the more science discovers about human life and the universe, the more complex and precisely designed we realize these to be. Rather than pointing away from God, evidence mounts further toward an intelligent source. But objective evidence is not all.

There is a much larger issue. Throughout history, billions of people in the world have attested to their firm, core convictions about God's existence--arrived at from their subjective, personal relationship with God. Millions today could give detailed account of their experience with God. They would point to answered prayer and specific, amazing ways God has met their needs, and guided them through important personal decisions. They would offer, not only a description of their beliefs, but detailed reports of God's actions in their lives. Many are sure that a loving God exists and has shown himself to be faithful to them. If you are a skeptic, can you say with certainty: "I am absolutely right and they all are wrong about God"?
5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.

I was an atheist at one time. And like most atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

proof of GodI didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.

I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."

Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.
6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God pursuing us.

Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.

He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."8 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."9

Is there really a God? How would you answer?
Far from being a blind faith, Christianity can be logically defended.

by Ken Ham

In our everyday experience, just about everything seems to have a beginning. In fact, the laws of science show that even things which look the same through our lifetime, like the sun and other stars, are running down. The sun is using up its fuel at millions of tonnes each second—since, therefore, it cannot last forever, it had to have a beginning. The same can be shown to be true for the entire universe.

So when Christians claim that the God of the Bible created the entire universe, some will ask what seems a logical question, namely ‘Where did God come from?’

The Bible makes it clear in many places that God is outside of time. He is eternal, with no beginning or end—He is infinite! He also knows all things, being infinitely intelligent.1

Is this logical? Can modern science allow for such a notion? And how could you recognize the evidence for an intelligent Creator?
Recognizing intelligence

For more information, visit Q&A: God
Scientists get excited about finding stone tools in a cave because these speak of intelligence—a tool maker. They could not have designed themselves. Neither would anyone believe that the carved Presidents’ heads on Mt Rushmore were the product of millions of years of chance erosion. We can recognize design—the evidence of the outworkings of intelligence—in the man-made objects all around us.

Similarly, in William Paley’s famous argument, a watch implies a watchmaker.2 Today, however, a large proportion of people, including many leading scientists, believe that all plants and animals, including the incredibly complex brains of the people who make watches, motor cars, etc., were not designed by an intelligent God but rather came from an unintelligent evolutionary process. But is this a defensible position?
Design in living things

Molecular biologist Dr Michael Denton, writing as an agnostic, concluded:

‘Alongside the level of ingenuity and complexity exhibited by the molecular machinery of life, even our most advanced [twentieth century technology appears] clumsy … . It would be an illusion to think that what we are aware of at present is any more than a fraction of the full extent of biological design. In practically every field of fundamental biological research ever-increasing levels of design and complexity are being revealed at an ever-accelerating rate.’3

The world-renowned crusader for Darwinism and atheism, Prof. Richard Dawkins, states:

‘We have seen that living things are too improbable and too beautifully “designed” to have come into existence by chance.’4

Thus, even the most ardent atheist concedes that design is all around us. To a Christian, the design we see all around us is totally consistent with the Bible’s explanation that God created all.

However, evolutionists like Dawkins reject the idea of a Designer. He comments (emphasis added):

‘All appearance to the contrary, the only watchmaker in nature is the blind forces of physics, albeit deployed in a very special way. A true watchmaker has foresight: he designs his cogs and springs, and plans their interconnections, with future purpose in his mind’s eye. Natural selection, the blind, unconscious, automatic process which Darwin discovered, and which we now know is the explanation for the existence and apparently purposeful form of all life, has no purpose in mind … . It has no mind … . It does not plan for the future … it is the blind watchmaker.’5

Selection and design

Life is built on information, contained in that molecule of heredity, DNA. Dawkins believes that natural selection6 and mutations (blind, purposeless copying mistakes in this DNA) together provide the mechanism for producing the vast amounts of information responsible for the design in living things.7

Natural selection is a logical process that can be observed. However, selection can only operate on the information already contained in genes—it does not produce new information.8 Actually, this is consistent with the Bible’s account of origins; God created distinct kinds of animals and plants, each to reproduce after its own kind.

One can observe great variation in a kind, and see the results of natural selection. For instance, dingoes, wolves, and coyotes have developed over time as a result of natural selection operating on the information in the genes of the wolf/dog kind.

But no new information was produced—these varieties have resulted from rearrangement, and sorting out, of the information in the original dog kind. One kind has never been observed to change into a totally different kind with new information that previously did not exist!

Without a way to increase information, natural selection will not work as a mechanism for evolution. Evolutionists agree with this, but they believe that mutations somehow provide the new information for natural selection to act upon.
Can mutations produce new information?

Actually, it is now clear that the answer is no! Dr Lee Spetner, a highly qualified scientist who taught information and communication theory at Johns Hopkins University, makes this abundantly clear in his recent book:

‘In this chapter I’ll bring several examples of evolution, [i.e., instances alleged to be examples of evolution] particularly mutations, and show that information is not increased … But in all the reading I’ve done in the life-sciences literature, I’ve never found a mutation that added information.9

‘All point mutations that have been studied on the molecular level turn out to reduce the genetic information and not to increase it.10

‘The NDT [neo-Darwinian theory] is supposed to explain how the information of life has been built up by evolution. The essential biological difference between a human and a bacterium is in the information they contain. All other biological differences follow from that. The human genome has much more information than does the bacterial genome. Information cannot be built up by mutations that lose it. A business can’t make money by losing it a little at a time.’11

Evolutionary scientists have no way around the conclusions that many scientists, including Dr Spetner, have come to. Mutations do not work as a mechanism to fuel the evolutionary process.
More problems!

Scientists have found that within the cell, there are thousands of what can be called ‘biochemical machines.’ All of their parts have to be in place simultaneously or the cell can’t function. Things which were thought to be simple mechanisms, such as being able to sense light and turn it into electrical impulses, are in fact highly complicated.

Since life is built on these ‘machines,’ the idea that natural processes could have made a living system is untenable. Biochemist Dr Michael Behe (see The mousetrap man) uses the term ‘irreducible complexity’ in describing such biochemical ‘machines.’

‘… systems of horrendous, irreducible complexity inhabit the cell. The resulting realization that life was designed by an intelligence is a shock to us in the twentieth century who have gotten used to thinking of life as the result of simple natural laws. But other centuries have had their shocks, and there is no reason to suppose that we should escape them.’12

Richard Dawkins recognizes this problem of needing ‘machinery’ to start with when he states:

‘The theory of the blind watchmaker is extremely powerful given that we are allowed to assume replication and hence cumulative selection. But if replication needs complex machinery, since the only way we know for complex machinery ultimately to come into existence is cumulative selection, we have a problem.’13

A problem indeed! The more we look into the workings of life, the more complicated it gets, and the more we see that life could not arise by itself. Not only is a source of information needed, but the complex ‘machines’ of the chemistry of life need to be in existence right from the start!
A greater problem still!

Some still try to insist that the machinery of the first cell could have arisen by pure chance. For instance, they say, by randomly drawing alphabet letters in sequence from a hat, sometimes you will get a simple word like ‘BAT.’14 So given long time periods, why couldn’t even more complex information arise by chance?

However, what would the word ‘BAT’ mean to a German or Chinese speaker? The point is that an order of letters is meaningless unless there is a language convention and a translation system in place which makes it meaningful!

In a cell, there is such a system (other molecules) that makes the order on the DNA meaningful. DNA without the language/translation system is meaningless, and these systems without the DNA wouldn’t work either.

The other complication is that the translation machinery which reads the order of the ‘letters’ in the DNA is itself specified by the DNA! This is another one of those ‘machines’ that needs to be fully-formed or life won’t work.
Can information arise from non-information?

Dr Werner Gitt, Director and Professor at the German Federal Institute of Physics and Technology, makes it clear that one of the things we know absolutely for sure from science, is that information cannot arise from disorder by chance. It always takes (greater) information to produce information, and ultimately information is the result of intelligence:

‘A code system is always the result of a mental process (it requires an intelligent origin or inventor) … It should be emphasized that matter as such is unable to generate any code. All experiences indicate that a thinking being voluntarily exercising his own free will, cognition, and creativity, is required.15

‘There is no known natural law through which matter can give rise to information, neither is any physical process or material phenomenon known that can do this.’16

Question: "Does God exist? Is there evidence for the existence of God?"



Answer: Does God exist? I find it interesting that so much attention is given to this debate. The latest surveys tell us that over 90% of people in the world today believe in the existence of God or some higher power. Yet, somehow the responsibility is placed on those who believe God does exist to somehow prove that He really does exist. To me, I think it should be the other way around.



However, the existence of God cannot be proven or disproved. The Bible even says that we must accept by faith the fact that God exists, “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him” (Hebrews 11:6). If God so desired, He could simply appear and prove to the whole world that He exists. But if He did that, there would be no need for faith. "Then Jesus told him, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed'” (John 20:29).



That does not mean, however, that there is not evidence of God’s existence. The Bible declares, “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world” (Psalm 19:1-4). Looking at the stars, understanding the vastness of the universe, observing the wonders of nature, seeing the beauty of a sunset – all of these things point to a Creator God. If these were not enough, there is also evidence of God in our own hearts. Ecclesiastes 3:11 tells us, “…He has also set eternity in the hearts of men…” There is something deep down in our beings that recognizes that there is something beyond this life and someone beyond this world. We can deny this knowledge intellectually, but God’s presence in us and through us is still there. Despite all of this, the Bible warns us that some will still deny God’s existence, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’” (Psalm 14:1). Since over 98% of people throughout history, in all cultures, in all civilizations, on all continents believe in the existence of some kind of God – there must be something (or someone) causing this belief.



In addition to the Biblical arguments for God’s existence, there are logical arguments. First, there is the ontological argument. The most popular form of the ontological argument basically uses the concept of God to prove God’s existence. It begins with the definition of God as “that than which no greater can be conceived.” It is then argued that to exist is greater than to not exist, and therefore the greatest conceivable being must exist. If God did not exist then God would not be the greatest conceivable being - but that would contradict God's very definition. A second is the teleological argument. The teleological argument is that since the universe displays such an amazing design, there must have been a Divine designer. For example, if earth were even a few hundred miles closer or further away from the sun, it would not be capable of supporting much of the life it currently does. If the elements in our atmosphere were even a few percentage points different, every living thing on earth would die. The odds of a single protein molecule forming by chance is 1 in 10243 (that is a 10 followed by 243 0’s). A single cell is comprised of millions of protein molecules.



A third logical argument for God’s existence is called the cosmological argument. Every effect must have a cause. This universe and everything in it is an effect. There must be something that caused everything to come into existence. Ultimately, there must be something “un-caused” in order to cause everything else to come into existence. That “un-caused” something is God. A fourth argument is known as the moral argument. Every culture throughout history has had some form of law. Everyone has a sense of right and wrong. Murder, lying, stealing, and immorality are almost universally rejected. Where did this sense of right and wrong come from if not from a holy God?



Despite all of this, the Bible tells us that people will reject the clear and undeniable knowledge of God and instead believe a lie. Romans 1:25 declares, “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator - who is forever praised. Amen.” The Bible also proclaims that people are without excuse for not believing in God, “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - His eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).



People claim to not believe in God because it is “not scientific” or “because there is no proof.” The true reason is that once people admit that there is a God, they also must realize that they are responsible to God and in need of forgiveness from God (Romans 3:23; 6:23). If God exists, then we are accountable for our actions to Him. If God does not exist, then we can do whatever we want without having to worry about God judging us. I believe that is why evolution is so strongly clung to by many in our society - to give people an alternative to believing in a Creator God. God exists and ultimately everyone knows that He exists. The very fact that some attempt so aggressively to disprove His existence is in fact an argument for His existence.



Allow me one last argument for God’s existence. How do I know God exists? I know God exists because I speak to Him every day. I do not audibly hear Him speaking back to me, but I sense His presence, I feel His leading, I know His love, I desire His grace. Things have occurred in my life that have no other possible explanation other than God. God has so miraculously saved me and changed my life that I cannot help but to acknowledge and praise His existence. None of these arguments in and of themselves can persuade anyone who refuses to acknowledge what is so plainly clear. In the end, God’s existence must be accepted by faith (Hebrews 11:6). Faith in God is not a blind leap into the dark, it is safe step into a well-lit room where 90% of people are already standing.

Recommended Resource: I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Norm Geisler and Frank Turek.

There you go, a few indepth arguments on how we know God exist.