..............

This useless post brought to you by the letter L, as in, Liberal.

Um what does liberals have to do with it 16 percent of our US jobs got shipped to china and India last year.
That is fucking frightning.

Honestly warrior, you're a little dense aren't you?

The poster is named Liberal. He was not calling him a liberal, he was responding using his screen name.

not dense for a moment unobservant. I did not read the posters name. Just responded.

dense would be seeing both and not putting both together. I did not see both. I over looked the posters name. Which is the lack of observation.

Please if you are going to make it a habit of poking at my faults get them right.

Good post Liberal.
All too true as well.
America desperately needs to regain it's sense of economic nationalism.

Well it is hard when they want to pay you bad wages when you spent 40,000 dollars to get an education, get in debt 380,000 to get a house and gas eating away at almost 4 dollars a gallon. I mean we cannot afford to work the same rate as the asians and Indians.

ALso I think capitalizm is hypocrate in this county. It is ok to ship our jobs over seas to keep prices cheap but it not ok for us to get our drugs from Canada or parallel trading from mexico to keep drug competition and prices cheap.

hmmm?

ALso I think capitalizm is hypocrate in this county. It is ok to ship our jobs over seas to keep prices cheap but it not ok for us to get our drugs from Canada or parallel trading from mexico to keep drug competition and prices cheap.

hmmm?
Real capitalists DO believe it's okay to get our drugs from Canada or whatever else we want from anywhere. It's called free trade, and it's a component of pure capitalism.

Honestly warrior, you're a little dense aren't you?

That was unnecessary.

Real capitalists DO believe it's okay to get our drugs from Canada or whatever else we want from anywhere. It's called free trade, and it's a component of pure capitalism.

That would mean violating copyright laws, which most capitalists do not support.

That was unnecessary.
I'm tired of her lashing out at everyone for absolutely no reason.

I'm tired of her lashing out at everyone for absolutely no reason.

Welcome to my world.

Now you have some idea how I feel watching posters like frogger, trav, napster, gmsisko, etc.

They do the same thing from their rightwing perspectives. Warrior is little different. She just has a different perspective.

Please post when I have lashed out at anyone without provocation. A personal attack or a rude comment is always posted to me before I go off on anyone. I have never attacked anyone unprovoked.

Welcome to my world.

Now you have some idea how I feel watching posters like frogger, trav, napster, gmsisko, etc.

They do the same thing from their rightwing perspectives. Warrior is little different. She just has a different perspective.
I never said anything to the contrary.

I never said anything to the contrary.

When Frogger was running around calling her a "dumbass" over and over and over, you didn't get this worked up over it.

You think that might have effected her concept of what is acceptable behavior on here? I certainly do.

When Frogger was running around calling her a "dumbass" over and over and over, you didn't get this worked up over it.

You think that might have effected her concept of what is acceptable behavior on here? I certainly do.
I'm not "worked up" over anything. You're skirting around calling me a hypocrite and I could certainly call you one for the same reason... You don't like it when conservatives/republicans are less than polite but when people who share your opinions do it you don't care. I have reprimanded people of every political persuasion for being rude.

I'm not "worked up" over anything.

Right. That explains why you rudely snapped at Warrior:
Honestly warrior, you're a little dense aren't you?

You're skirting around calling me a hypocrite

It's called trying to be polite.

You don't like it when conservatives/republicans are less than polite but when people who share your opinions do it you don't care.

pot...kettle...black.


I have reprimanded people of every political persuasion for being rude.

I am just pointing out, if you were more consistent then you would have repremanded Frogger when he was doing it for days and you might not have this problem with Warrior now.

Right. That explains why you rudely snapped at Warrior:




It's called trying to be polite.



pot...kettle...black.



If you were more consistent then you would have repremanded Frogger when he was doing it for days and you might not have this problem with Warrior now.
I hardly think Warrior's behavior would be any different had I reprimanded Frogger. As a matter of fact I believe I told off someone for being overly rude to her... I think it was Napster I told. Not that that changes anything, the first post she ever directed towards me was to call me a sexist and say all sorts of rude things to me.

Real capitalists DO believe it's okay to get our drugs from Canada or whatever else we want from anywhere. It's called free trade, and it's a component of pure capitalism.I think pure capitalism would involve the Canadian firm attempting to invent a superior drug that can outsell its competition. What you're describing is theft.

The day we allow companies to steal formulas that cost billions in R&D to produce, is the day the search for new drugs and cures ends.

Well what do you know? Brooks just agreed with me.

Well what do you know? Brooks just agreed with me.I like everything you've said on this thread, especially the "welcome to my world" comment.

And I agree with your defense of Warrior.

I think pure capitalism would involve the Canadian firm attempting to invent a superior drug that can outsell its competition. What you're describing is theft.

The day we allow companies to steal formulas that cost billions in R&D to produce, is the day the search for new drugs and cures ends.
Alright, I admit I did not know what the situation was. I thought she was referring to the same drugs, made by the same company, but just sold for less in Canada.

Sorry. :(

Wow we Canadians are getting burned or do we have it better? lol
I love our health care here and our drug price do rock, but we also have a longer wait time for a lot of procedures that you guys don't.
It is true a lot of Americans do come to Canada to buy their prescriptions.
No one said you guys are stealing them just getting them at a steal of a price from what you pay in the USA.
Reading what this thread is about is a joke but it is all to true.
In Canada the big American box stores have moved in and it is hard to buy stuff that is made in Canada only. Even some of our foods are American, but for the most part I try and buy Canadian products when ever possible. I am proud of what Canada makes and produces. In a small town just about hour away from where I live we have a market in the summer that sells all farm fresh items from the fields. I think that is one of the things I would miss in a big city.

I love our health care here and our drug price do rock, but we also have a longer wait time for a lot of procedures that you guys don't.


You guys do not have as many people who are not getting procedures that they need because they cannot afford them.

You have longer wait times for some procedures because, unlike the US, everyone in Canada can actually get the procedures they need, so there are more people in the system at any given time and thus, longer waits.

I like everything you've said on this thread, especially the "welcome to my world" comment.

And I agree with your defense of Warrior.

Thank you Brooks.

You guys do not have as many people who are not getting procedures that they need because they cannot afford them.

You have longer wait times for some procedures because, unlike the US, everyone in Canada can actually get the procedures they need, so there are more people in the system at any given time and thus, longer waits.

I agree. One thing about Canada is we treat everyone and health care is affordable to all. I Feel for a lot of people in the USA that can not afford procedures and die waiting. It happens here also but not as common as in the US.

And I agree with your defense of Warrior.
That's distressing.

When Frogger was running around calling her a "dumbass" over and over and over, you didn't get this worked up over it.

You think that might have effected her concept of what is acceptable behavior on here? I certainly do.



I only did that because she was acting like a dumbass. As soon as she registered she began attacking people and accusing them of posting things they never posted. She attacked outher posters and was generally nasty. Don't blame the messenger.

As far as DarkFantasy is concerned, she made her comment in this thread because Warrior has a history of attacking statements without either knowing what she is talking about or reading all of a previous post. This is not the first time she has done it nor do I believe will it be the last. She is so angry at the world that she lashes out at every opportunity.

Dharmabum, I have very seldom attacked you personally unless you first began attacking others. What I have done is attack your statements and that is so easy to do it is almost impossible to resist.

... it is almost impossible to resist.

Yeah, I have noticed that.

Whatya call that sone, 'love is in the air'.

I only did that because she was acting like a dumbass. As soon as she registered she began attacking people and accusing them of posting things they never posted. She attacked outher posters and was generally nasty. Don't blame the messenger.

As far as DarkFantasy is concerned, she made her comment in this thread because Warrior has a history of attacking statements without either knowing what she is talking about or reading all of a previous post. This is not the first time she has done it nor do I believe will it be the last. She is so angry at the world that she lashes out at every opportunity.

Dharmabum, I have very seldom attacked you personally unless you first began attacking others. What I have done is attack your statements and that is so easy to do it is almost impossible to resist.

Frogger you were on my ass the first day I posted trolling me than turning around and calling me troll. Sometimes I misread stuff we all do you are not perfect. As I have requested before please post when I have personally attacked another person without provokation? Never once have I attacked anyone without someone making a rude and personal attack on me first.

You can't stand it that I am not a christian and that you got in your mind that I am a lefty. I remember posting on threads and not even mentioning your name or saying anything offensive and you jump in calling me a dumbass and troll. I mean you followed me around for like 4 days stalking me.

So don't play all innocent that you are a victim of my harsh words when you provoked me.

I don't want to make this thread about Warrior, and I'm sorry to add to that, but on her third day posting here, people were getting mad at her for not understanding how things worked and for not understanding individuals' politics.

I hate myself for saying this, but this board got more exciting when Dharmabum came aboard, even though he(?) pisses me off.
I think Warrior is fun.

Sorry for this distraction.

I don't want to make this thread about Warrior, and I'm sorry to add to that, but on her third day posting here, people were getting mad at her for not understanding how things worked and for not understanding individuals' politics.

I hate myself for saying this, but this board got more exciting when Dharmabum came aboard, even though he(?) pisses me off.
I think Warrior is fun.

Sorry for this distraction.
You're kinda right Brooks. I think Warrior is slightly more annoying than dharma, if only because she uses quite a bit of crude, offensive language. Dharma rarely does and it's usually appropriate.

Not that I'm defending him or anything. :p

Well, it's academic since someone has banned her for doing what everyone else does around here.

Only for 24 hours, Brooks.

Oh, thanks

Haha, this is why nothing can get done in this country, every conversation turns into a pissing contest.

[QUOTE=Liberal]Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN) for 6am. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG). He put on a dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA). After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA) he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO) to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN) to the radio (MADE IN INDIA) he got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY) filled it with GAS from Saudi Arabia and continued his search for a good paying NORTH AMERICAN JOB. At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day checking his Computer (MADE IN MALAYSIA), Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL) poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE) and turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in NORTH AMÉRICA...

What exactly do You suggest we do,as Americans,about all this.?
W/O all the color that is.
We have color commentary at ball games,BTW.

What exactly do You suggest we do,as Americans,about all this.?


Regain our lost sense of economic nationalism.

Do you imagine that people in other countries don't have tons of stuff "Made in USA?"

Free trade creates a situation that favors the consumer. Inefficient businesses and monopolistic unions don't like that. As prices go down, everyone is immediately better off from the lower prices; even employment increases because consumers have more money to spend on other things, and foreigners have more money to spend on imports from the US.

To the extent there is a trade imbalance, what happens is that foreigners send us all sorts of nice things and we send them back pieces of paper. Countries that artificially create a trade surplus out of mercantile instincts in effect lower the living standard of their people and raise that of Americans.

Protectionism only shelters the inefficient (and encourages it).

Regain our lost sense of economic nationalism.

Ugh ugh Ooh Ooh Alright yer off my simple Ignore.
I rarely putz one on Ignore.
Butts,you've proven to be a recalcitrant,unconscienable ballbuster.
Yer alloted,maybe One simple time out or bathroom break.
However... it's right back to the peanut gallery,fur yer type.

Do you imagine that people in other countries don't have tons of stuff "Made in USA?"

If they do they are legacy from a time when America actually had a manufaturing base.

That time is no more.

We only produce a fraction of what we did mere decades ago.

Now we are supposedly a "service" economy.

Prior to 1980, America was the world's largest importer of raw materials and exporter of finished goods.

Today, we are the world's largest exporter of raw materials and importer of finished goods.

Today we export $1.024 trillion in goods but we import almost twice as much, $1.869 trillion.

Do you imagine that people in other countries don't have tons of stuff "Made in USA?"

Free trade creates a situation that favors the consumer. Inefficient businesses and monopolistic unions don't like that. As prices go down, everyone is immediately better off from the lower prices; even employment increases because consumers have more money to spend on other things, and foreigners have more money to spend on imports from the US.

To the extent there is a trade imbalance, what happens is that foreigners send us all sorts of nice things and we send them back pieces of paper. Countries that artificially create a trade surplus out of mercantile instincts in effect lower the living standard of their people and raise that of Americans.

Protectionism only shelters the inefficient (and encourages it).

Ah ...Nice ... Schmice !
We eventually will become Soooooooooooo beholdin to Goods
and maybe Services { our hallmark } that Americans will become a
3rd World Importer.
Like Pat Buchanan insists,we no longer can offer the Great Manufacturing
jobs that were the basis for our Great Economic status,around the
world.
Jobs like Steelworkers,Textile,autoworkers have been effectively
marginalized.It's a sad day in America when our Middle class is comprised
of little besides Service oriented sectors like CPA's,Lawyers and
Technicians { Cable techs and the like}.There is little reason for
Civil or Electrical or mechanical engineers to go off to college.
We need Doctors, and dentists,but their too aplenty,as is.
We may need more simple labor for all the housing and big building
Boom.
What America needs is The old ways...relived.
We used to be King Shit in all phases of Manufacturing.
Even our Rubber tires are produced,abroad.
Thanks kindly ... Miss Global Economy.
You've whored yerself out,and we're the worse for the wear.

This useless post brought to you by the letter L, as in, Liberal. I'd have to say brought by the letter N as in Neo-Liberal, the policies that allow corporations to take american jobs and not pay american taxes...

Free trade creates a situation that favors the consumer. Inefficient businesses and monopolistic unions don't like that. As prices go down, everyone is immediately better off from the lower prices; even employment increases because consumers have more money to spend on other things, and foreigners have more money to spend on imports from the US.

To the extent there is a trade imbalance, what happens is that foreigners send us all sorts of nice things and we send them back pieces of paper. Countries that artificially create a trade surplus out of mercantile instincts in effect lower the living standard of their people and raise that of Americans.

Protectionism only shelters the inefficient (and encourages it). Wrong. The "free market" does not favor the consumer, it favors the company. The company is allowed to move to which ever country has the most lax labor and environmental laws. It also allows the company to move out of the US, removing american jobs, and to avoid paying any US taxes.

All that AND theres absolutly nothing saying they need to pass any savings on to the consumer. Even more waste is created in that things are made in other countries then shipped here for consumption.

The consumer is not favored by the 'free market'. The consumer is not favored by excessive waste. The consumer is not favored by the poisoning of the environment. The consumer is only ever favored by competition and wage slavery. Of course things are cheaper when wage-slaves make them, its not a question of cheap, its a question of morality.

Protectionism only shelters the inefficient (and encourages it).So then Americans are ineffcient?

Thank you Brooks.

get a room...

just kidding..:eek:

Do you imagine that people in other countries don't have tons of stuff "Made in USA?"

Free trade creates a situation that favors the consumer. Inefficient businesses and monopolistic unions don't like that. As prices go down, everyone is immediately better off from the lower prices; even employment increases because consumers have more money to spend on other things, and foreigners have more money to spend on imports from the US.

To the extent there is a trade imbalance, what happens is that foreigners send us all sorts of nice things and we send them back pieces of paper. Countries that artificially create a trade surplus out of mercantile instincts in effect lower the living standard of their people and raise that of Americans.

Protectionism only shelters the inefficient (and encourages it).

Let me tell you that buying goods from the USA is something of the past, it happened in the 50's & 60's. Then the Japanese goods invaded most of
América, every single country started getting them, then another wave came from the other Asian countries, today as it happens here in US, it also happens in our countries, things made in China are cheaper than in our own poor countries with low wages, so can anyone imagine that it is not only a thing happening in the US. If people make more money, they will continue buying from those countries, not from US or Europe, since the price gap will always be too great. If the prices from Asia are cheaper and the prices from the poor countries in América can't compete with China, then just imagine how much money Wal-Mart makes in the US...

Let me tell you that buying goods from the USA is something of the past, it happened in the 50's & 60's. Then the Japanese goods invaded most of
América, every single country started getting them, then another wave came from the other Asian countries, today as it happens here in US, it also happens in our countries, things made in China are cheaper than in our own poor countries with low wages, so can anyone imagine that it is not only a thing happening in the US. If people make more money, they will continue buying from those countries, not from US or Europe, since the price gap will always be too great. If the prices from Asia are cheaper and the prices from the poor countries in América can't compete with China, then just imagine how much money Wal-Mart makes in the US...
In Vietnam when someone is trying to sell you something the "Made in USA" label fetches twice what made in Vietnam fetches and at least 20% more than what a made in Japan label makes.

This is double or triple if the product is a pharmeucetical. The Vietnamese do not trust medicine made in other countries.

All sorts of US products--especially sporting goods, CDs and DVDs, heavy machinery, a variety of foodstuffs (especially canned fish), cosmetics, and tools dominate the Vietnam marketplace.

(Most small manufactured items come from China, but if one wants "quality" over price, to the Vietnamese, this means USA.)

I notice that Toyota can make cars in the US and do well at it.

Without Japanese competition, the cars Americans drive would still be pieces of junk designed to fall apart starting at 50,000 miles and costing twice what they now cost.

Wrong. The "free market" does not favor the consumer, it favors the company.

You have as much economic sense about you as the typical Creationist has about biology.

1. Wrong. The "free market" does not favor the consumer, it favors the company.
2. All that AND theres absolutly nothing saying they need to pass any savings on to the consumer.
3. The consumer is not favored by the 'free market'.
4. The consumer is not favored by excessive waste.
5. The consumer is not favored by the poisoning of the environment.
1. If you consider lower prices and greater variety an advantage, then the free market does favor the consumer.
I don't know what you mean by "the company". The only company that is favored by the free market is the one that makes the superior product.

2. If they don't, the consumer will patronize a different company.

3. You said that already.

4. The competing corporation is also not favored by excessive waste. It will drive up their cost and raise their prices.

5. In manufacturing countries with no free market, the pollution is often much worse.

I have to admit,I dont think Ive ever bought or owned anything that said 'made in usa' on it.

Just because an item is labeled "Made in the USA" doesn't mean it actually was.

Things made in the Northern Mariana Islands are labeled "Made in the USA".

The so-called "free" market only benefits the business owners consistently.

The so-called "free" market only benefits the business owners consistently.
Unbelievable. ::shakes head:: You failed econ, didn't you?

Unbelievable. ::shakes head:: You failed econ, didn't you?

Straight A's Prat.

But you feel free to pretend otherwise if it soothes your fragile ego.

The so-called "free" market only benefits the business owners consistently.

This is so true, and especially for the big companies (Corporations), they just want the "Free Market" so they can use their huge amounts of money to bring down the competition with their usual tactics of dumping the prices till the mid and small companies are out of business, just like the Jews used to do in Germany before WWII... And then they rise their prices back and even higher than before.

I have to admit,I dont think Ive ever bought or owned anything that said 'made in usa' on it.
i don't think i even know of anything made in Ireland:@@:

This is so true, and especially for the big companies (Corporations), they just want the "Free Market" so they can use their huge amounts of money to bring down the competition with their usual tactics of dumping the prices till the mid and small companies are out of business, just like the Jews used to do in Germany before WWII... And then they rise their prices back and even higher than before.
thanks for our daily dose of racism:thumbs:

So then Americans are ineffcient?

Some American companies are inefficient. Like say the steel industry until recently. What's really inefficient is having a highly educated workforce putting together sandals to be sold for $3.00 when they could be putting together 777s that sell for $250,000,000.

The so-called "free" market only benefits the business owners consistently.


500lb noted that too.

And you're both exactly right.

So called "free" markets are in place for the specific purpose of putting the American worker in direct competition with workers in Third world nations; meaning that the wages paid to American workers are systematically depressed and held down. And WHO benefits from those low wages? NOT the American workers, but American businesses.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.kyklosproductions.com/articles/wages.html

Stagnating Workers' Wages

In 1979 the American worker's average hourly wage was equal to $15.91 (adjusted for inflation in 2001 dollars). By 1989 it had reached only $16.63/hour. That's a gain of only 7 cents a year for the entire Reagan decade.

But wait. Things get worse! By 1995 it had risen to only $16.71, or virtually no gain whatsoever over the 6 years between 1989 and 1995. During the great 'boom years' between 1995 and 2000 it rose briefly to $18.33 per hour. In other words, from 1979 to 2000, even before the most recent Bush recession, after more than two decades the American worker's average wages increased on average only 11.5 cents per hour per year! With nearly all of that coming in the five so-called 'boom' years of 1995-2000, and most of that lost once again in the last three years. And that includes for all workers, even those with college degrees.

The picture is worse for workers who had no college degree. That's more than 100 million workers, or 72.1% of the workforce. For them there was no 'boom of 1995-2000' whatsoever. Their average real hourly wages were less at the end of 2000 than they were in 1979! And since 2000 their wages have continued to slide further.

I have to agree with Prae on this one. Your statement below is retarded.

Let me give you a simple lesson.

The free market encourages competition. Competition encourages lower prices. Lower prices are a good thing for most people.

If you go to Wal-Mart, or Target, or K-Mart, your prices are lower as a result of the "free" market.





The so-called "free" market only benefits the business owners consistently.

I have to agree with Prae on this one. Your statement below is retarded.

Let me give you a simple lesson.

The free market encourages competition. Competition encourages lower prices. Lower prices are a good thing for most people.

If you go to Wal-Mart, or Target, or K-Mart, your prices are lower as a result of the "free" market.

Of course both of you would come with the same conclusions.

Good post FT. You are spot on!


500lb noted that too.

And you're both exactly right.

So called "free" markets are in place for the specific purpose of putting the American worker in direct competition with workers in Third world nations; meaning that the wages paid to American workers are systematically depressed and held down. And WHO benefits from those low wages? NOT the American workers, but American businesses.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.kyklosproductions.com/articles/wages.html

Stagnating Workers' Wages

In 1979 the American worker's average hourly wage was equal to $15.91 (adjusted for inflation in 2001 dollars). By 1989 it had reached only $16.63/hour. That's a gain of only 7 cents a year for the entire Reagan decade.

But wait. Things get worse! By 1995 it had risen to only $16.71, or virtually no gain whatsoever over the 6 years between 1989 and 1995. During the great 'boom years' between 1995 and 2000 it rose briefly to $18.33 per hour. In other words, from 1979 to 2000, even before the most recent Bush recession, after more than two decades the American worker's average wages increased on average only 11.5 cents per hour per year! With nearly all of that coming in the five so-called 'boom' years of 1995-2000, and most of that lost once again in the last three years. And that includes for all workers, even those with college degrees.

The picture is worse for workers who had no college degree. That's more than 100 million workers, or 72.1% of the workforce. For them there was no 'boom of 1995-2000' whatsoever. Their average real hourly wages were less at the end of 2000 than they were in 1979! And since 2000 their wages have continued to slide further.