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Frogger
04-24-2007, 11:37 AM
A Taste of Heaven cafe owner Dan McCauley poses at the front door of his Chicago cafe next to a sign that reads "Children of all ages have to behave and use their indoor voices when they come to a Taste of Heaven." The sign became a lightning rod for a larger debate on parenting -- namely, who gets to have a say about misbehaving children.

March 22, 2007 — Have you ever found yourself counting the seconds until your check arrives at a restaurant? Not because the food, service or ambience were lacking, but because someone's child was running laps around the place, hiding under the tables, and practicing his dinosaur roar at ear-splitting volume.
Or maybe you've been on the other side, out to a family meal with the kids, proud of their behavior — which in any other situation might be called exemplary — only to be berated by a fellow diner who believes that children "should be seen and not heard"?
Either way, the moment probably doesn't rank among your top ten dining experiences. Whether they're well-behaved kids bored of waiting for their grilled cheese to arrive or poor-mannered brats hell-bent on ruining a meal for everyone within screaming distance, the friction created by kids in restaurants is something many of us have experienced.
In one Chicago community these tensions reached a boiling point when Dan McCauley, owner of a local cafe, A Taste of Heaven, decided he had had enough of children using his establishment as a playground.
Heaven and Hell
One afternoon, McCauley said, he caught a pair of kids scaling the walls of his restaurant while their parents sat nearby. As the group was leaving, McCauley confronted Julie, one of the supervising mothers, and told her that she and her children were no longer welcome in the cafe.
"I was so shocked," said Julie, who out of concern for the children's anonymity asked that her last name not be used. "It made me feel like I was in the second grade, having my knuckles whacked or something."
The following morning McCauley posted a sign on the front door, thinking it would be a simple solution. It read: "Children of all ages have to behave and use their indoor voices when coming to A Taste of Heaven"
To his astonishment, the sign quickly provoked a strong response within the community. "We had like 50 or 60 phone calls," McCauley said. "People stating that they were really offended, and they would never step foot in here again, which really surprised me." A local newspaper even wrote that a group of concerned parents was going to boycott the cafe.But then things began to change, when the story was picked up outside of the community and reported nationally. All of a sudden, McCauley said, the steady stream of angry phone calls turned into a tidal wave of support.
Letters applauding the restaurant's stand against rowdy kids began to arrive from around the country, some from as far away as Singapore and the United Kingdom. McCauley even received some small checks from supporters worried he would lose business.
The story reflects a debate that has long been simmering in online chat rooms and letters to local newspapers: How should children be expected to behave in public places, and especially in restaurants? Disciplinarians, advocates of hands-off child rearing, the childless, and mothers of six all seem to have an opinion.
The point of contention is rarely whether or not children should be allowed in restaurants, or whether or not they should behave. Most agree that kids are welcome to dine out as long as they don't make nuisances of themselves. But tempers seem to flare when the topic is addressed in public.
'It's Like Speaking Against Nuns'
Ralph, the husband of Julie and father of the children banned from A Taste of Heaven, said that while it was hard not to agree with McCauley, "What I'm saying is that there are ways to approach this issue without making parents feel uncomfortable, patronized, pushed away."
Meanwhile, Ted, a Taste of Heaven patron who gave only his first name, had his own theory to explain the nation-wide debate touched off by the cafe's sign.
"It was kinda groundbreaking," he said. "It's almost taboo. Children definitely are the one thing that you cannot speak against in our society. They are innately good. It's like speaking against nuns. You know what I mean?"
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2971198&page=1

Dio Seijuro
04-24-2007, 11:54 AM
"It's almost taboo. Children definitely are the one thing that you cannot speak against in our society. They are innately good. It's like speaking against nuns. You know what I mean?"
This is one of the things I dislike the most about this society in general, and if you know me I am pretty easy-going on a lot of things. But I try not to talk about this too much--because I am not having kids I understand it's a lot easier for me to say let's not cater to children in so many things we do. It's obviously a different story when you are parent.

About this story. I giddily imagine the birth of a restaurant chain that aims to make tons of money by being the only one around that caters to misbehaving kids and their parents... Think about it, instead of all the effort to possibly asking all parents to do better at parenting or all the effort to convince the society that restaurants need to tolerate crap like that, just let a brand new sector emerge that cater to lazy parents and naughty kids!

I'll just continute to go to my kids-unfriendly restaurants like I already do.

LionelHutz
04-24-2007, 12:09 PM
"What I'm saying is that there are ways to approach this issue without making parents feel uncomfortable, patronized, pushed away."


Right, and it's exactly the way the restaurant owner approached it.

I think I'm lucky in that my parents were a generation older than those of most of my friends, because it seems that the generation that are now becoming parents were raised to think that the universe revolves around them. And now they're raising kids with the same attitude. So now you have obnoxious kids who think they can do no wrong being raised by parents who also think they can do no wrong. I saw a woman tell an obnoxious little brat that he was being rude (that's exactly the word she used) and the kid's mom went apeshit, followed her out to her car, and threatened to call the cops on her.

We don't let our 3 year old run amok in public and on the rare occasions when she flips out, we remove her so as not to piss everyone else off. On the other hand, realizing that these things will happen sometimes, we stick to the family friendly (i.e. loud) restaurants.

Imagineer
04-24-2007, 01:15 PM
About this story. I giddily imagine the birth of a restaurant chain that aims to make tons of money by being the only one around that caters to misbehaving kids and their parents... Think about it, instead of all the effort to possibly asking all parents to do better at parenting or all the effort to convince the society that restaurants need to tolerate crap like that, just let a brand new sector emerge that cater to lazy parents and naughty kids!



That already exists. In a word, Chucky Cheese.

ninigoat
04-24-2007, 01:53 PM
Good for the owners, I wish more would follow in their footsteps. When my kids were younger, if they acted up, we left. I refused to subject others to my kids bad behavior. My kids got the picture, if they wanted to eat out, they behaved. This is a pet peeve of mine, parents that don't or won't discipline their kids, when their kids are being disruptive in a restaurant.

I also hate sitting in a movie theatre and someone kicking my seat, but that's a different story.

Evakian
04-24-2007, 04:04 PM
That already exists. In a word, Chucky Cheese.
Chuck E. Cheese is two words and an initial. :eek:

Frogger
04-24-2007, 06:11 PM
"What I'm saying is that there are ways to approach this issue without making parents feel uncomfortable, patronized, pushed away."

This is so wrong. The parents should be made to feel uncomfortable. They should be made to feel like they did something wrong by allowing their children to act like little hellions in a public place. When parents like this allow their children to act out in public without reprimanding other people should turn toward them, point and say, "For shame." These parentes are too thick and self centered to get the message in any other way.

Evakian
04-24-2007, 06:14 PM
This is so wrong. The parents should be made to feel uncomfortable. They should be made to feel like they did something wrong by allowing their children to act like little hellions in a public place. When parents like this allow their children to act out in public without reprimanding other people should turn toward them, point and say, "For shame." These parentes are too thick and self centered to get the message in any other way.
How about we turn those kids into food? Gives "small fry" a new meaning.

Darth Be'lal
04-24-2007, 07:23 PM
Good for the owners, I wish more would follow in their footsteps. When my kids were younger, if they acted up, we left. I refused to subject others to my kids bad behavior. My kids got the picture, if they wanted to eat out, they behaved. This is a pet peeve of mine, parents that don't or won't discipline their kids, when their kids are being disruptive in a restaurant.

I think that if parents can't or won't get their kids to behave, then a shop owner has every right ask them to leave, what is so hard about that? If I had kids, I wouldn't let them misbehave, dammit.

On a more humorous note, there was a sign posted in a coffee shop that stated all unattended children would be given a double esspresso and a puppy, dammit.

DarkFantasy96
04-24-2007, 07:34 PM
On a more humorous note, there was a sign posted in a coffee shop that stated all unattended children would be given a double esspresso and a puppy, dammit.
Hahaha, I think that's more of a deterrent to neglectful parents than being kicked out for their kids' behavior...

Napsterbater
04-24-2007, 07:57 PM
I doubt you'd find a kid that would actually drink a double espresso.

DarkFantasy96
04-24-2007, 08:04 PM
They would if you put it in a nice big cup of sugary hot chocolate...

shortstuff
04-24-2007, 09:20 PM
My Opinion is that if you go out to a nice fancy restaurant adult based, then it would be nice for people to leave the kids at home with a sitter, or if they choose to bring them. Then be responsible to manage them.
I was raised in a restaurant you were to be seen and not heard and if you were to get out of hand, it was off to the bathroom with you and you did the lip sucking thing because you got you butt tanned..
Today with all the child advocates ands social services you can not discipline your kids the same way. You need to teach them manners and etiquette ( how to behave when out in public).
There is nothing worse then being out for a nice romantic dinner and having little johnny from the next table throwing food or having a hissy fit.
This rules all change when it is quote a family restaurant. Kids have a lot more freedom. That is not to say that they still should not behave but they can relax and the parents might actually enjoy dinner out with the kids.

There are some restaurants where I live that are adult based restaurants and they do not have highchairs or booster seat and in the bathrooms there are no change tables. Now do I agree with that no but that is the companies choice to serve whom ever they wish to. It is not right but it is their choice to stay in business or not.

mikezila
04-24-2007, 09:44 PM
They would if you put it in a nice big cup of sugary hot chocolate...
Mmmm....Mocha!

Phyrex
04-24-2007, 10:06 PM
If I ever acted like that in a resturaunt when I was a kid my dad would have beat my ass. In fact, my father was pretty damn strict when I was a kid, and I very grateful for that. I mean he was never so harsh it was abuse or anything, but hed knock me in the head when I did something stupid, or pull the belt out if I really fucked up. I hold no annimosity whatsoever, and I really wish that more fathers were like that. I cannot stand it when people let their kids run amuck in public places. In fact, I will get up and at least tell whoever is in charge of the place to ask the perpatrators to either shut up or leave. And if they do nothing, I leave. Simple as that.

Imagineer
04-25-2007, 07:09 AM
Chuck E. Cheese is two words and an initial. :eek:

I stand corrected. Actually I avoid the chain since I don't have children, and really don't want to be around dozens of uncontrolled screaming munchkins.

Evakian
04-25-2007, 07:20 AM
I stand corrected. Actually I avoid the chain since I don't have children, and really don't want to be around dozens of uncontrolled screaming munchkins.
But the food and enviroment there rivals the finest Italian and French 5-star restaurants! Where else can you find a rock, melted plastic, and jelly that is called "Pizza." Not to mention the ambience brought on by rusted animatronics and arcade machines. Where else can you find the soup du jour on the floor by the bathroom? Where else can you get your shins broken while you try to eat salad? (No, Red Lobster doesn't count...)

It's a great establishment, the more obnoxious families the better.