On payday, it's still a man's world
Study: Females earn 80 percent of what men earn one year after graduating from college; falls to 69 percent 10 years later.
April 23 2007: 9:11 AM EDT


NEW YORK (Reuters) -- A dramatic pay gap emerges between women and men in America the year after they graduate from college and widens over the ensuing decade, according to research released on Monday.

One year out of college, women working full time earn 80 percent of what men earn, according to the study by the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation, based in Washington D.C.

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Ten years later, women earn 69 percent as much as men earn, it said.

Even as the study accounted for such factors as the number of hours worked, occupations or parenthood, the gap persisted, researchers said.

"If a woman and a man make the same choices, will they receive the same pay?" the study asked. "The answer is no.

"These unexplained gaps are evidence of discrimination, which remains a serious problem for women in the work force."

Specifically, about one-quarter of the pay gap is attributable to gender - 5 percent one year after graduation and 12 percent 10 years after graduation, it said.

One year out of college, men and women should arguably be the least likely to show a gender pay gap, the study said, since neither tend to be parents yet and they enter the work force without significant experience.

"It surprised me that it was already apparent one year out of college, and that it widens over the first 10 years," Catherine Hill, AAUW director of research, told Reuters.

The choice of fields of concentration in college was a significant factor found to make a difference in pay, the study found.

10 Best-paid executives: They're all men
Female students tended to study areas with lower pay, such as education, health and psychology, while male students dominated higher-paying fields such as engineering, mathematics and physical sciences, it said.

Even so, one year after graduation, a pay gap turned up between women and men who studied the same fields.

In education, women earn 95 percent as much as their male colleagues earn, while in math, women earn 76 percent as much as men earn, the study showed.

While in college, the study showed, women outperformed men academically, and their grade point averages were higher in every college major.

Parenthood affected men and women in vividly different ways. The study showed mothers more likely than fathers, or other women, to work part time or take leaves.

Among women who graduated from college in 1992-93, more than one-fifth of mothers were out of the work force a decade later, and another 17 percent were working part time, it said.

In the same class, less than 2 percent of fathers were out of the work force in 2003, and less than 2 percent were working part time, it said.

The study, entitled "Behind the Pay Gap," used data from the U.S. Department of Education. It analyzed some 9,000 college graduates from 1992-93 and more than 10,000 from 1999-2000.

This doesn't surprise me at all.

Study: Females earn 80 percent of what men earn one year after graduating from college; falls to 69 percent 10 years later.
Excellent. Soon they won't even be able to afford the Rapex device.

Have you been taking funny pills lately, Evakian. Your humor has gotten better by a power of ten.

Have you been taking funny pills lately, Evakian. Your humor has gotten better by a power of ten.

We call those "psychedelics"

Have you been taking funny pills lately, Evakian. Your humor has gotten better by a power of ten.

What?!?!? You must have tried some of those psychedelic drugs we were discussing in the other thread.

I think he's getting laid

There will never be equal pay as long as it is a mans world. If men rule it women will always be thought of and lower income earners. A women has to do twice the job of any other man in the same job just to stand out and if she does stand out she is thought of as she is banging some one to get where she is.

Sad but true shortstuff it is really sad. The feminist movment use to be all over this stuff where the heck are they? Settled down and got married or something.
They were doing a CSI report and doing a crime in the miliatary or something and since woman are allowed in the miliatary the men siad they were either bytches or ho's. If you put out and had sex you were a ho if you didn't you were a bytch..
Absolutley discusting.

AND! the government is telling them what to do with thier bodies.

I assume you are talking about abortion laws?

Well, I don't know if it makes any difference to feminist enthusiasts, but I can think of 2 collegiate fields that pay well with bachelor degrees, both of which are dominated by men: Computer Technology and Engineering.

Common fields that don't pay so well? Biology, Psychology, English, and Arts. I would guess that all of those fields have a female dominance.

Furthermore, I would surmise that computer knowhow influences your salary...and I don't think that there is any dispute as to which gender has dominant aptitude when it comes to computers.

Sometimes gender (and race...but that's a different thread) aptitudes affect statistics. That's why you can't always look at the bottom line statistics.

I think he's getting laid
Jere sure isn't, he's working at an adult bookstore.

Sad but true shortstuff it is really sad. The feminist movment use to be all over this stuff where the heck are they? Settled down and got married or something.
They were doing a CSI report and doing a crime in the miliatary or something and since woman are allowed in the miliatary the men siad they were either bytches or ho's. If you put out and had sex you were a ho if you didn't you were a bytch..
Absolutley discusting.
The only thing disgusting here is your pathetic usage of 'bytch'. Honestly, what retarded monkey did you learn English from? Is 'bitch' too fucking common for you to use? Gotta get all high and mighty on us, eh bytch?

Didn't you hear? Feminism is dead. They went from women's rights, to women demanding they shouldn't be held accountable for shit. When Britney Spears and Mariah Carey started using the feminist tag without getting called out for it, people lost respect for it. It was your own goddamn faults.

Well, I don't know if it makes any difference to feminist enthusiasts, but I can think of 2 collegiate fields that pay well with bachelor degrees, both of which are dominated by men: Computer Technology and Engineering.

Common fields that don't pay so well? Biology, Psychology, English, and Arts. I would guess that all of those fields have a female dominance.

Furthermore, I would surmise that computer knowhow influences your salary...and I don't think that there is any dispute as to which gender has dominant aptitude when it comes to computers.

Sometimes gender (and race...but that's a different thread) aptitudes affect statistics. That's why you can't always look at the bottom line statistics.

Bingo. We actually just covered this topic today in my Race Relations class. Men tend to major in things like Business, Engineering, Accounting...money-making majors. Women tend to go down paths such as Sociology.

Good evidence supporting this theory shows that the gap between men and women actually widens as they both climb the education ladder.

Bingo. We actually just covered this topic today in my Race Relations class. Men tend to major in things like Business, Engineering, Accounting...money-making majors. Women tend to go down paths such as Sociology.

I notice that no one is addressing the findings that men make more than women even when they are in the SAME field of work.

I notice that no one is addressing the findings that men make more than women even when they are in the SAME field of work.

Oh I have no doubt that happens as well; I just don't believe women get paid 69% of what men get paid doing the same job on a widescale basis.

I notice that no one is addressing the findings that men make more than women even when they are in the SAME field of work.
Evakian did.

Oh I have no doubt that happens as well; I just don't believe women get paid 69% of what men get paid doing the same job on a widescale basis.

You really had to look hard in the article to find the truth.. Discounting factors like parenthood and occupation here's the real statistic:
Specifically, about one-quarter of the pay gap is attributable to gender - 5 percent one year after graduation and 12 percent 10 years after graduation, it said.


So men earn 5% more at age 23 or so and 12 percent more at age 32 or so. Not a huge gap of course, which is why I'm not freaking out about it. It's still a gap, and I'm not surprised.

Another factor I forgot to mention is that even in occupations dominated by females, (teachers, librarians, nurses, etc.) males tend to make more because often they get promoted quickly. For example, about 90% of teachers are females but most principles are males.

This is obviously the polar opposite of women in male-dominated occupations who often hit the "glass ceiling".

I notice that no one is addressing the findings that men make more than women even when they are in the SAME field of work.
when i was in the Army, pay was based on rank & time in service, when i delivered pizza, everyone got paid exactly the same per hour-tips were another story, that's based as much on luck as anything...(unless you know how to work the customer)...when i drove a truck, everyone that got paid by the mile got paid by the mile (based on experience), when i got paid by the hour, the hourly rate was set by seniority, and those that got paid percentage, got the same percentage.

i'm not saying it doesn't happen to office workers, but i haven't seen it.

Evakian did.
Because I'm magic!

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/4040/zzzinvisibleaccordiangi9.jpg

Another factor I forgot to mention is that even in occupations dominated by females, (teachers, librarians, nurses, etc.) males tend to make more because often they get promoted quickly. For example, about 90% of teachers are females but most principles are males.

This is obviously the polar opposite of women in male-dominated occupations who often hit the "glass ceiling".

where is there a public school teacher whose wages aren't set by a union contract? those pay rates are set by seniority and education level.

of the principles i can remember, not one of them lack having PhD behind their name.

Another factor I forgot to mention is that even in occupations dominated by females, (teachers, librarians, nurses, etc.) males tend to make more because often they get promoted quickly. For example, about 90% of teachers are females but most principles are males.

This is obviously the polar opposite of women in male-dominated occupations who often hit the "glass ceiling".
So why do you think that the male superintendents and board of education members promote male teachers to "principle" [sic]?

Are you saying that men are more capable in leadership positions? If so, what evidence do you have?

where is there a public school teacher whose wages aren't set by a union contract? those pay rates are set by seniority and education level.

of the principles i can remember, not one of them lack having PhD behind their name.
First of all, it's principal. In most of my schools principals have either had a PhD OR had seniority as teachers at the school. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it.

Ah, here's a P.S.

I realized that you may have been saying something else CBL. Perhaps you were implying that men are more ambitious and more likely to want a leadership position. I think you might be right about that one if that's what you meant.

First of all, it's principal. In most of my schools principals have either had a PhD OR had seniority as teachers at the school. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it.
i wouldn't think you would, you're one of the most reasonable people i've ever ran across, online or IRL, male or female, of any age.

i wouldn't think you would, you're one of the most reasonable people i've ever ran across, online or IRL, male or female, of any age.
Aww, thanks.

I notice that no one is addressing the findings that men make more than women even when they are in the SAME field of work.
DF, this was mentioned this morning on the NBC Morning News. They were reporting that on average, women make 80% of what their male co-workers make. This is an unfortunate statistic (or fact).:mad:

No matter how we look at it men will always get paid more then a women doing the same job. The only time I have ever seen it equal was in some mill union jobs. As a general rule of thumb women can get as much education as they want and they will still make less then a man will.
Companies look at women in most cases as a liability they take time off to have kids and work half time or job share.
Most men can devote full time to a job and not need to take the same time off.
The only way a women can get equal pay in most cases is to be self employed or work a union job that has standard wage hikes not based on gender.

Whining and complaining about this disparity, what nonsense. We men are helping you women! Helping you from buying too many shoes so you don't get your neck punctured by a high heel when you walk in the closet. Besides, we men need the money to but that new screwdriver set that Bob Villa was advertising, the old screwdriver set from last month just doesn't drive screws like it used to.

Whining and complaining about this disparity, what nonsense. We men are helping you women! Helping you from buying too many shoes so you don't get your neck punctured by a high heel when you walk in the closet. Besides, we men need the money to but that new screwdriver set that Bob Villa was advertising, the old screwdriver set from last month just doesn't drive screws like it used to.
Haha! Now that's funny!:thumbs:

Haha! Now that's funny!:thumbs:
it would be funnier if i wasn't browsing thru the Northern Tool catalog:@@:

Whining and complaining about this disparity, what nonsense. We men are helping you women! Helping you from buying too many shoes so you don't get your neck punctured by a high heel when you walk in the closet. Besides, we men need the money to but that new screwdriver set that Bob Villa was advertising, the old screwdriver set from last month just doesn't drive screws like it used to.

OK maybe true on some twisted level. In the past most families got away with just the man working...go daddy.
But now a days both parents have to work to make ends meet. It would be nice to receive the same pay for the same job. I do agree with the wage being evaluated on how much education and experience also but not on gender.

Oh and by the way not all women have a closet full of shoes. I own like 10 pairs of foot wear total.. But I also own power tools, skill saw, jig saw. cordless screw driver, a power drill, so should I get more money too.

I'd like to personally meet these underpaid women.

With nearly 50 years in the workforce under my belt and having worked as a contractor for most of the large companies for extended periods of time (IBM, ITT, McDonnel Douglas, General Electric, Sperry, Honeywell, TRW, Northrup Grumman, Emerson Electric, Magnavox, United Technologies, Smith industries, Lear Siegler, Motorola, Westinghouse, Hewlitt Packard, Agilent, NSA (yes - that NSA) and others that don't come to mind at the monent - I have never seen a case of a woman and man being paid on a different scale given all else remains equal in experience and capabilities. NEVER.

OK maybe true on some twisted level. In the past most families got away with just the man working...go daddy.
But now a days both parents have to work to make ends meet. It would be nice to receive the same pay for the same job. I do agree with the wage being evaluated on how much education and experience also but not on gender.

Oh and by the way not all women have a closet full of shoes. I own like 10 pairs of foot wear total.. But I also own power tools, skill saw, jig saw. cordless screw driver, a power drill, so should I get more money too.
He was being facetious. Wait, maybe you knew that? :confused:

I'd like to personally meet these under-payed women.

With nearly 50 years in the workforce under my belt and having worked as a contractor for most of the large companies for extended periods of time (IBM, ITT, McDonnel Douglas, General Electric, Sperry, Honeywell, TRW, Northrup Grumman, Emerson Electric, Magnavox, United Technologies, Smith industries, Lear Siegler, Motorola, Westinghouse, Hewlitt Packard, Agilent, NSA (yes - that NSA) and others that don't come to mind at the monent - I have never seen a case of a woman and man being paid on a different scale given all else remains equal in experience and capabilities. NEVER.

Yes most of these are all union jobs and we have already recognize that in them situations they do receive equal pay. It is in the non-union jobs that this is more of an issue with is the point most are trying to make.

He was being facetious. Wait, maybe you knew that? :confused:

Yes DF, I know he was joking and I was poking fun back.
But thanks for the 411.

Haha, okay, I reread your post and kinda figured...

Haha, okay, I reread your post and kinda figured...

coolness.

Yes most of these are all union jobs and we have already recognize that in them situations they do receive equal pay. It is in the non-union jobs that this is more of an issue with is the point most are trying to make.

You're still wrong.

Company audits simply don't allow for noticable differences in pay -- it's illegal and can ruin careers and entire companies.

Can you give me some specifics ... company name, pay for the man, pay for the woman, do they have the same experience, the same education, perform the same job with the same efficiency ??? Suff like that.

Maybe we can get to the bottom of all this.

So why do you think that the male superintendents and board of education members promote male teachers to "principle" [sic]?

Are you saying that men are more capable in leadership positions? If so, what evidence do you have?

No, I'm just saying that they're more likely to get jobs in leadership positions.

No, I'm just saying that they're more likely to get jobs in leadership positions.
Well yeah, that's true. I thought you were trying to provide a reason for that... Or hint at one...

Well yeah, that's true. I thought you were trying to provide a reason for that... Or hint at one...

Sorry, I didn't see your P.S.. I think it has less to do with men wanting leadership roles and more to do with other people wanting men to be leaders. Men are supposed to be strong, and therefore having a man in a leadership role only makes sense.

I'd like to personally meet these underpaid women.

With nearly 50 years in the workforce under my belt and having worked as a contractor for most of the large companies for extended periods of time (IBM, ITT, McDonnel Douglas, General Electric, Sperry, Honeywell, TRW, Northrup Grumman, Emerson Electric, Magnavox, United Technologies, Smith industries, Lear Siegler, Motorola, Westinghouse, Hewlitt Packard, Agilent, NSA (yes - that NSA) and others that don't come to mind at the monent - I have never seen a case of a woman and man being paid on a different scale given all else remains equal in experience and capabilities. NEVER.

they have proven it by looking at how much each pays socail security based on how much they make.
And men make 20 percent more than woman.

You have to remember that in statistics are mistruths...

Labor jobs are going to man-dominated... which shows up on taxes.

Service jobs, like bartending, serving, dancing, is going to be woman dominated, but that is tip money mostly...

That probably contributes to men getting "paid more" on paper, but i doubt it's that bad as a whole.

Service jobs, like bartending, serving, dancing, is going to be woman dominated, but that is tip money mostly...

That probably contributes to men getting "paid more" on paper, but i doubt it's that bad as a whole. It should be illegal to not pay minimum wage to servers

they have proven it by looking at how much each pays socail security based on how much they make.
And men make 20 percent more than woman.

How does that prove the man and woman were equally qualified and therefore should be paid the same?

well when both come fresh out of college and one gets 20 percent less and ends up being female. I think that says alot since neither have experience at this point.

well when both come fresh out of college and one gets 20 percent less and ends up being female. I think that says alot since neither have experience at this point.

If the woman and man both graduate with the same degree and same major and are hired by the same company for the same job ... they will get equal pay.

it's against the law to do it any other way.

on edit: I'm presumming both of them know how to negotiate the best deal.

Examples of what I'm talking about:

According to CNN Money (http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/13/pf/college/starting_salaries/index.htm) , the best average salaries in the class of 2006 are in Engineering:

Chemical Engineering: $55,900
Electrical Engineering: $52,899
Mechanical Engineering: $50,672
Computer Science: $50,046
Accounting: $45,723
Economics/Finance: $45,191
Civil Engineering: $44,999
Business Administration: $39,850

Furthermore, here's a statistical analysis by the National Science Foundation refuting claims of gender inequality within the field of engineering. They found that pay was very nearly equal (a 2 percent difference according to gender) when taking "field (engineering vs. non-engineering), employment sector, geographic region, engineering specialty, highest degree attained, and years of experience" into consideration.

http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/issuebrf/sib99352.htm

I also tried to find some broad statistics that show percent of males/females enrolling in common undergraduate degree programs, but couldn't find any. I did run across several sites from individual colleges saying how few women enroll in engineering. Highest statistic I saw from 3 or 4 of those sites was that 41% of engineering majors were women.

Highest statistic I saw from 3 or 4 of those sites was that 41% of engineering majors were women.

Interesting. I'd have to guess around 10% tops in my engineering classes.

Chemical Engineering: $55,900
Electrical Engineering: $52,899
Mechanical Engineering: $50,672
Computer Science: $50,046
Accounting: $45,723
Economics/Finance: $45,191
Civil Engineering: $44,999
Business Administration: $39,850




I call bull ... not on you Jester but on the salaries -- they must have gotten these salaries from some small town in Mississippi cause there's no way they apply to any major cities ... 50K for a CS grad and 52K for a hardware engineer ??? That wouldn't even pay my bar tab in LA.

Average. For everywhere in the country.

Women can't negotiate, hence the pay differences.

Women can't negotiate, hence the pay differences.
That actually might be true. Women are taught to be polite, subservient, and unobtrusive. They will ask nicely for a raise and not insist when their boss says no.

Of course it's true. I said it, didn't I?

Thise salaries can't possibly be average for the country ...

If a hardware engineer in Los Angeles' South Bay and along the I-270 science corridor in Montgomery county and in the Bay area and on Rte 28 in Boston are making $125,000-$140,000 then someone, somewhere has to be working for free to make this average believable.

This is 5th grade (make that 4th grade) math we're talking here.

After performing a diligent search I have found out why men earn more than women.

Men smarter than women, prof claims
Lance Crossley, CanWest News Service; Ottawa Citizen
Published: Friday, September 08, 2006
OTTAWA - A recent study proves it is ''very likely'' that the reason women have difficulty rising to the top in their careers is because they are less intelligent than men, according to controversial University of Western Ontario psychologist J. Philippe Rushton.

http://24.69.78.93/forum/index.php?topic=1450.0

Thise salaries can't possibly be average for the country ...

If a hardware engineer in Los Angeles' South Bay and along the I-270 science corridor in Montgomery county and in the Bay area and on Rte 28 in Boston are making $125,000-$140,000 then someone, somewhere has to be working for free to make this average believable.

This is 5th grade (make that 4th grade) math we're talking here.
No, there just has to be a higher number of people making salaries on the lower end.

The average of 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 8, and 10 is about 4.3. Fourth grade math indeed. ;)

After performing a diligent search I have found out why men earn more than women.

Men smarter than women, prof claims
Lance Crossley, CanWest News Service; Ottawa Citizen
Published: Friday, September 08, 2006
OTTAWA - A recent study proves it is ''very likely'' that the reason women have difficulty rising to the top in their careers is because they are less intelligent than men, according to controversial University of Western Ontario psychologist J. Philippe Rushton.

http://24.69.78.93/forum/index.php?topic=1450.0
This coming from a professor who claims that whites are smarter than blacks, and that the African AIDS epidemic is due to Africans' "insatiable appetites for sex". :rolleyes:

That's not to say I don't believe it. I really don't WANT to believe it, because then I'd have to consider myself inferior to all the complete idiots I meet just because they are men... I like to believe that I'm smart. :(

No, there just has to be a higher number of people making salaries on the lower end.

The average of 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 8, and 10 is about 4.3. Fourth grade math indeed. ;)

That would not work in the high-tech industry which is centric to certain locations, of which, I mention the 4 most prominent.

You will never find 6 hardware engineers working in Scranton, Binghamton, Stockton, Las Cruces, Sheboygan and Billings combined for every 1 working in Los Angeles or any other hot spot.

The 6:1 ratio is from your example.

On edit: I just searched for engineering positions in Los Angeles on Dice.com and it came back with 1579 and Monster.com came back with 1565


After college you go where the jobs are and you make the money. Pretty simple.

::shrug:: I was just saying, that "average" has to come from somewhere. I suppose it could be completely inaccurate. I was just pointing out a situation in which it COULD be accurate.

::shrug:: I was just saying, that "average" has to come from somewhere. I suppose it could be completely inaccurate. I was just pointing out a situation in which it COULD be accurate.

Point taken. Heck maybe it is real and I'm full of it ...

It is sad to say mates but it is considered a mans world out there.
This does not make it right. Things are changing slowly as more corporate businesses see the potential of the Sheila counter parts.
Men are seen a bread winners and the Sheila's are the domestic end of the scale.
Do I agree with this fact of life. No I feel if a Sheila does the same job and have the same education as me then the sheila should get paid the same rate.

It is sad to say mates but it is considered a mans world out there.
This does not make it right. Things are changing slowly as more corporate businesses see the potential of the Sheila counter parts.
Men are seen a bread winners and the Sheila's are the domestic end of the scale.
Do I agree with this fact of life. No I feel if a Sheila does the same job and have the same education as me then the sheila should get paid the same rate.

maybe where you live ...

I'm doing a little side work for a major financial company (65,000 employees) and in my group there are ~500 (all programmers) of which a full 70% are women and they all make as much as any male in the building and in most cases more.

The 60's are gone.

I think the key is that those are average salaries for the class of 2006, not average salaries for everyone in that field.

I think the key is that those are average salaries for the class of 2006, not average salaries for everyone in that field.

Could be but they're still low. You get your money going in or you don't get it at all. Even fresh-outs know that one. :D