I think we could all use a little brush up with the finer points of debate. I very much enjoyed reading this.
http://www.truthtree.com/debates.shtml

Good post Homer!

It has been a while since I have seen the phrase, post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Good post Homer!

It has been a while since I have seen the phrase, post hoc ergo propter hoc.
I saw it in my English textbook about a million times in the past few weeks...

I saw it in my English textbook about a million times in the past few weeks...

You saw a latin phrase in an english textbook?
School sure has changed since I was in.
I didn't become familiar with that phrase until debate club.

You saw a latin phrase in an english textbook?
School sure has changed since I was in.
I didn't become familiar with that phrase until debate club.
My English class is "Techniques of Argumentative Writing"...

My English class is "Techniques of Argumentative Writing"...

That class should be invaluable for you here. :)

Wow, you have a cool english class. All I do in mine is take the practice AP over and over...

I saw it in my English textbook about a million times in the past few weeks...
Don't you wish certain people would pay attention to what it means?

Wow, you have a cool english class. All I do in mine is take the practice AP over and over...
Holy shit, Kid...you're really bright, and I don't mean that in a condescending (or sarcastic) way. I didn't realize you were so young. Kudos, my friend - you write beautifully. I can't believe you're only 18. You read a lot, don't you???

Omgwtfbbq~!!!!!! He Is Birhgt He Must Raed Alottttt

Great informative post Homer. Nice reminder!

Omgwtfbbq~!!!!!! He Is Birhgt He Must Raed Alottttt
Yeah, I kinda sounded stupid, didn't I? Oh well, I was really fucked up when I wrote it, so...

Yeah, I kinda sounded stupid, didn't I? Oh well, I was really fucked up when I wrote it, so...

Just when you wrote it? :D I just b kidding! I just b kidding!

More rules for effective debating

Know your enemy: Everyone has weaknesses, learn to exploit them. If your opponent has extreme views, goad him into saying something stupid then rip him to shreds.

Take cheap shots: These are the easiest points to score and usually don't require very much effort. Keep a lookout for spelling and grammatical errors. Always check their math -- there's usually something wrong with it.

Ambiguity: Say things that can be taken two ways. Then if someone calls you on a point you can say you meant the opposite. Also, this helps if you later change your mind.

Use the mob: Sometimes you can isolate an opponent in an untenable position. Then you can sit back and watch others do your work for you. For example "child pornography is a victimless crime". All I had to do was bring it up once and Decka was on the defensive for the next three days. He even made his own thread to defend himself!! Man, I laughed a lot over that one.

Creative personal attacks: If you're going to attack someone be original about it. Tired insults only bore and annoy people who might otherwise take your side. If you can't be creative, STFU.

Oh god, the child porn thing... I don't think I've ever said anything that stupid, even while drunk. :D

More rules for effective debatingI am sure you posted these with tongue in cheek, so let me amplify a little. Let me say that ideally we are not here to win arguments but to persuade and be persuaded.
Everyone has weaknesses, learn to exploit them. If your opponent has extreme views, goad him into saying something stupid then rip him to shreds.
Goading itself is a fine art, and usually requires insults--especially the implication of cowardice.
These are the easiest points to score and usually don't require very much effort. Keep a lookout for spelling and grammatical errors. Always check their math -- there's usually something wrong with it.
Don't point out their grammatical mistakes--a much better way is to quote them and put a "[sic]" after each error.
Say things that can be taken two ways. Then if someone calls you on a point you can say you meant the opposite. Also, this helps if you later change your mind.
Another useful tactic for this is to quote some other figure. This leaves deniability if the quote cannot be supported. Even better is the personal anecdote offered as evidence (personal anecdotes are good, but as evidence they are worthless, but people don't seem to realize that, and are deniable later--you can separate yourself from the party who you report said it if it becomes necessary).
Sometimes you can isolate an opponent in an untenable position. Then you can sit back and watch others do your work for you.
You can also set up several identities--"sock puppets" to create an illusion of group opinion. Another way is to use the "private messaging" utility to set up group attacks. It is all known as "bandwagon propaganda." As a general rule, though, just stick to boards where you already represent the majority opinion--then you don't need all these devices and you can sit back and soak up praise for your intelligence.
If you're going to attack someone be original about it. Tired insults only bore and annoy people who might otherwise take your side. If you can't be creative, STFU.
Certain forms of attack are counterproductive--such as diagnosing your opponents mental health (it is easily rebutted with the "armchair pop psychology" remark).

Yeah, I kinda sounded stupid, didn't I? Oh well, I was really fucked up when I wrote it, so...
People who communicate well or appear intelligent do not always read a lot. I can count the number of the novels or non-fiction books of substance I've read and recall them easily because there are more shoes in OD's closet than books I've read.

Evak, I demand those minutes of my life back, which I spent trying to decipher that post.

Sedan, you forgot stereotypes. Stereotypes provide an easy grading system to understand the psyche of your opponent without doing any of that pesky "reading". The simple answer of, "That's such a liberal/conservative/feminist/(fascist, if you're desperate) idea" can destroy even the most effective arguments in a single stroke.

Evak, I demand those minutes of my life back, which I spent trying to decipher that post.

Sedan, you forgot stereotypes. Stereotypes provide an easy grading system to understand the psyche of your opponent without doing any of that pesky "reading". The simple answer of, "That's such a liberal/conservative/feminist/(fascist, if you're desperate) idea" can destroy even the most effective arguments in a single stroke.
This is known as "refutation by label." It takes various forms:

"Oh, that argument is as old as the hills." (So?)

"That is the Timbuctu fallacy." (Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Calling evidence a "fallacy" is to confuse evidence with logic.)

"No scholar holds that opinion." (Prove it.)

"You have proved nothing." (Opinions are like that.)

"You have the burden of proof." (Maybe so, but telling me achieves nothing to change my mind.)

"That is the Ireanean heresy." (Good. I would hate to think I weren't a heretic.)

"People who think that are no better than worms." (Worms too serve.)

Don't point out their grammatical mistakes--a much better way is to quote them and put a "[sic]" after each error.This is a matter of taste. After all, you are still pointing out the error.You can also set up several identities--"sock puppets" to create an illusion of group opinion.That would be a good way to get yourself banned from this forum. The mods will eventually discover this ruse.Another way is to use the "private messaging" utility to set up group attacks. It is all known as "bandwagon propaganda."I've been here a year and a half and have never been approached by anyone suggesting such a tactic. And there's no need, as like-minded people will support each other's arguments anyway. As a general rule, though, just stick to boards where you already represent the majority opinion--then you don't need all these devices and you can sit back and soak up praise for your intelligence.I would quickly lose interest in any such board. People complain sometimes about the 'slant' of allForums but I think it's pretty balanced. If there is a minority here it is pretty damn vocal.

Sedan, you forgot stereotypes. Stereotypes provide an easy grading system to understand the psyche of your opponent without doing any of that pesky "reading". The simple answer of, "That's such a liberal/conservative/feminist/(fascist, if you're desperate) idea" can destroy even the most effective arguments in a single stroke.You think I'm gonna tell you everything??

Not a chance.

I was just trying to revive your lame-assed thread. :)

This is a matter of taste. After all, you are still pointing out the error.
Ah but the "[sic]" is far more of a rude dig and guaranteed to irritate. Pointing out the error may be taken as an attempt to be helpful.
That would be a good way to get yourself banned from this forum. The mods will eventually discover this ruse. I've been here a year and a half and have never been approached by anyone suggesting such a tactic.
I would hope you are right, but there have been a couple of times when I suspected sock-puppetry. Interestingly, I posted a vague comment on the subject with nothing specific in it, and one of the posters disappeared.
I would quickly lose interest in any such board. People complain sometimes about the 'slant' of allForums but I think it's pretty balanced. If there is a minority here it is pretty damn vocal.
Which is part of why I have settled here. The people here seem to mostly be minorities of one.

You think I'm gonna tell you everything??

Not a chance.

I was just trying to revive your lame-assed thread. :)


Sorry to inconvenience you twinkle-toes. I swear, the only time you take your head out of your ass is to watch American Idol. Maybe that's why you have such shitty posts. :banana:

I swear, the only time you take your head out of your ass is to watch American Idol.It is time well spent.

Until you grok the significance of American Idol your understanding of American culture will remain superficial at best.

sedan, I may have to block you until you change your avatar, can't take it much longer.

sedan, I may have to block you until you change your avatar, can't take it much longer.Ha ha ha!!

Just wait till he's the most famous person in America!!

In the meantime I'll acquiesce -- but only because I don't like to see small animals suffer.

P. S. Stay on my good side from now on -- or else!! :eek: