View Full Version : Prayer and Meditation
Thislin
04-03-2007, 02:06 PM
What are the differences, if any, between prayer and meditation?
Are prayers answered? If so, under what circumstances?
Can one pray if one does not believe in God?
Does prayer or meditation do one any good? Can they do harm?
What is the appropriate form and procedure, if any, for prayer? For meditation?
Do ritualistic "prayers" such as Tibetan prayer wheels, or chanting, or saying the same prayer over and over, achieve anything?
Phyrex
04-03-2007, 06:34 PM
Prayer, is praying to God for help and guidence. Meditation, at least for me, is looking inside yourself for help and guidence.
Thislin
04-03-2007, 07:12 PM
Prayer, is praying to God for help and guidance. Meditation, at least for me, is looking inside yourself for help and guidance.
There are traditionally two "types" of prayer--prayers of supplication and prayers of thanksgiving. Do prayers of supplication ever get answered? Are prayers of thanksgiving needed or even noticed? What if one doesn't believe in God--that is, is it necessary for there to be a being one prays to?
Technically, all meditation is, is sitting quietly for a fairly extended period. That this helps one look inside oneself seems reasonable. Is meditation good for anything else?
What are the differences, if any, between prayer and meditation?One connects with an external conscious entity and the other with one's self.
Are prayers answered? If so, under what circumstances?Yes, through post-hoc rationalisation.
Can one pray if one does not believe in God?One could perform the ritual, which is all believers do anyway in my view.
Does prayer or meditation do one any good?Yes, meditation can bring calmness and group prayer can promote a sense of belonging.
Can they do harm?Yes if done instead of something genuinely helpful to a situation.
What is the appropriate form and procedure, if any, for prayer?With others.
For meditation?Alone.
Do ritualistic "prayers" such as Tibetan prayer wheels, or chanting, or saying the same prayer over and over, achieve anything?They're affordable and pass the time, no doubt.
Evakian
04-04-2007, 05:16 PM
What are the differences, if any, between prayer and meditation?
Prayer usually consists of some sort of thought of thanksgiving, intercession, or devotion, all directed towards a deity. Meditation is the relaxing and contemplation brought on by oneself, rather than by illusions like a deity.
Are prayers answered? If so, under what circumstances?
If what you wanted happened, the prayer was not answered, it just happened by coincidence.
Can one pray if one does not believe in God?
Prayers can be of thanksgiving to Nature or oneself's own consciousness, appreciation or meditation rather than supplication.
Does prayer or meditation do one any good? Can they do harm?
They may relax people, but I believe they are generally a waste of time for myself and likely many others.
What is the appropriate form and procedure, if any, for prayer? For meditation?
Dance around banging on pots and pans cheering and ululating.
Do ritualistic "prayers" such as Tibetan prayer wheels, or chanting, or saying the same prayer over and over, achieve anything?
Same as any other prayer, as they can offer relaxation. I've been an atheist for a while now, though in tight spots and nervous situations I still mumble the Rosary. It offers the thought of safety and soothes me.
Thislin
04-04-2007, 05:43 PM
One connects with an external conscious entity and the other with one's self.
If there is no entity, then in both one is connecting with oneself--in meditation, usually non-verbally; in prayer, generally verbally.
Yes, through post-hoc rationalisation.
Yes, of course, though I am not sure that is the entire story, nor is there any way to be sure. Other possibilities are out there without assuming something miraculous, such as the prayer helping motivate the person to act, helping the person see more clearly what to do, or even subtle changes in the person's being that facilitates having the prayer come true or helping the person live with the situation.
I see nothing wrong in praying for worthy things, and in avoiding being too judgmental about what is worthy.
One could perform the ritual, which is all believers do anyway in my view.
I pray fairly often, even though I am reasonably sure there is no God. Buddhists who are generally agnostic still offer prayers (the word is a rather poor translation, since it is not "prayer" in the Christian sense) out to the "cosmos" as it were (the karma that surrounds us or, from a Chinese viewpoint, the Tao).
I think my prayer is a holdover form Christian training, and does no harm and probably some good for myself. It is a sort of very honest conversation with oneself about one's desires and emotions.
Yes, meditation can bring calmness and group prayer can promote a sense of belonging.
Quite so. Both can bring calmness and lower blood pressure, although meditation is better for this since it generally goes on for an hour or so; rarely does prayer last that long. Also, depending on the meditative technique being used, it can really put things in perspective--thereby reducing tension and worry, elevating depression, and controlling excessive enthusiasm.
They're affordable and pass the time, no doubt.
Prayer wheels please the tourists. Chanting is either good or bad depending on what is being chanted: it can ennoble you or debase you. Religious chants tend to be the former, political chants the latter.
Thislin
04-04-2007, 05:55 PM
Prayer usually consists of some sort of thought of thanksgiving, intercession, or devotion, all directed towards a deity. Meditation is the relaxing and contemplation brought on by oneself, rather than by illusions like a deity.
Well put, except maybe you define "prayer" too much in Christian terms, since the word, when applied to Buddhist practice, does not involve speaking to any deity but speaking to the universe in some rather poorly defined sense--your words are just "put out" there.
If what you wanted happened, the prayer was not answered, it just happened by coincidence.
I would put it a little differently--if what you want happens, then the prayer was answered--but one should be slow to assume a miraculous answer. It may be coincidence, or it may be that you were praying for things that would happen anyway (same thing?) or maybe the prayer had some effect on you or others that helped things along.
The fact that so many prayers are not answered--that loved ones die anyway or the college student gets rejected in his amorous desires--should be enough to persuade any reasonable person that prayers have no magic power.They may relax people, but I believe they are generally a waste of time for myself and likely many others.
Self-fulfilling prophesy.
Dance around banging on pots and pans cheering and ululating.
Like a high school pep rally. I have participated in some very bizarre rituals involved in getting an education.
Same as any other prayer, as they can offer relaxation. I've been an atheist for a while now, though in tight spots and nervous situations I still mumble the Rosary. It offers the thought of safety and soothes me.
That was remarkably honest of you. The religious indoctrination is still deep inside you, probably now housebroken enough that you can appreciate its positive elements.