I considered this thread for sometime before I started it,I couldnt decide on the exact format,so please bear with me:
A little background first prehaps.
Northern Ireland and its problems,are a microcosm of the last 400 years of Irish history.The Unionist (Pro-British) population,were/are the decendants of settlers brought over from Scotland and England in the 1600s,as part of the Plantation of Ireland and especially The Plantation of Ulster,which is the top 9 counties of the island-Antrim,Down,Armagh,Derry,Tyrone,Donegal,Cavan,Mona ghan and Fermanagh.
These settlers are/were of Protestant stock,and have always had a 'siege' mentality,and have rarely considered themselves as Irish.
At the height of The War of Independance,1921,the Unionists,who mainly live in the North East,threatened to bring Ireland to its knees,if they were forced into a Republic,and they could muster 100,000 seasoned combat veterens of WW1,if need be.So the British Partitioned Ireland,6 of the 9 counties of Ulster were to remain within the UK,with its own Government.The Border effectively cut off 700,000 Nationalists from the rest of the country.
A sign of things to come was a statement from Northern Irelands first Prime Minister James Craig,when he said he would have ''a Protestant Parliment for a Protestant People''.
The new State formed its own Police Force, the RUC,Royal Ulster Constabulary.The force was made up of app.4500 full time and app.8000 reservists,the A and B Specials,the force was 90%+ Protestant.
This forces main dutys were to keep the Catholic/Nationialist minority in place,mainly second class Citizens.Thru terror,intimidation and murder.
http://mcmahon.rushlight/magazine.com
From the 1920s to the 1960s,Northern Ireland settled down to a uneasy calm,with resistance from Nationalists/Republicans petered out,apart from a brief Border Campaign in the 40s and 50s.
What became known as 'The Troubles',is well documented,and had a lot of media attention,so I decided to 'wiki' it,to save a lot of time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles



On a personal note:
It would be unwise to mention anything regarding myself,for a number of reasons,well 2 actually,firstly,most people wouldnt believe me,and secondly I wouldnt want to implacate myself in anything.
So,I have decided to tell you a brief story of someone I know very well.For posting purposes,we'll call him Brian,anything written here is true,nothing is fabricated,locations have been left out for the above reasons:

Brian is 43 years old,the same age as myself.During The Troubles he had a best friend shot dead by British Troops,a sister shot and wounded by British Troops,a neighbour shot dead by Loyalist Paramilitaries and his neighbour cut to pieces by the Shankill Butchers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shankill_Butchers
Its difficult for Brian to give a full account of his growing up in The Troubles as he has suffered from Post Traumatic Stress for 30 years effecting him off and on.
This was a result of 2 shootings he had been involved in.
1.At 7 years old a British Soldier was shot and killed searching his schoolbag.
2.At 12 years old he hid under a dying man for half an hour,until it was safe to stand up.
At 14 Brian joined the IRA, done some scouting and Intelligence gathering,before being arrested and Interrogated,during which he was beaten severly and had a sandbag pulled over his head,he was then forced to lie on his back on a table and a bucket of water was thrown over the sandbag,this gives the sensation of drowning and is very effective,the incident Brian was questioned about Brian was not involved in,so could not answer they're questions, Brian was released after 3 days and left the IRA soon afterwards.Brian continued to see a lot of nasty scenes,one that he recalls is a car bomb exploding as a funeral cortage was passing,a football, burning flew past him bouncing down the street,he later discovered it was someones head.His life long friend lying dead at his front door,a gunshot wound to the head,he knew him all his life,couldnt recognise him.

These days Belfast and Northern Ireland are a very different place.Bus loads of Tourists,mostly Europeans and Americans visit the areas were the worst of the violence took place.
Brian has lived most of his life in Northern Ireland,but has never felt British,these days he lives a quite life as well as he can and tries to set a good example for his kids,he prays everyday his children never have to see the horrors he grew up with and what were called normal when he was a kid.

Politics is the new game in town these days,the attacks of 9/11 pretty much finished Irish American support for armed struggle,so its talk talk talk these days,theyll never agree on anything,but at least the killing has ended............................................f or now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6493691.stm

Brian is a good brave man.

I have a question, paul.

Why were the Unionists so anti-Republic?
Catholic prejudice?

Yep,very anti Catholic.The Orange Order is a big thing in the Protestant Community,they're movement stems back to William of Orange,who was also William the something of England,Battle of Boyne 1690,William of Orange,Dutch,defeated James ?,King of England,in the Boyne Valley,Co.Meath,only in Ireland eh.

Do you think something like the truth commissions done in South Africa might help reconcile Northern Ireland as well?

Hmm, Imagineer, I have no idea what truth commissions are.

Paul, I honestly had no idea about any of that. Sure I've heard it mentioned somewhere, Northern vs Southern Ireland and the Catholics vs the Protestants but I really didn't know anything about the details...

I'm afraid my historical expertise in Europe stops at the middle ages. I don't know much about the 20th century anywhere, even in the U.S.

So paul, what do you think the ultimate solution to the Irish question is? Would a unified Ireland be tolerant of it's Protestant minority? Or will there always be a Northern Ireland if for no other reason than Britain demands one? What political solutions do you consider realistic?

So paul, what do you think the ultimate solution to the Irish question is?
Genocide of course. Wait, that is my solution.

Do go on Paul.

Hmm, Imagineer, I have no idea what truth commissions are.

Paul, I honestly had no idea about any of that. Sure I've heard it mentioned somewhere, Northern vs Southern Ireland and the Catholics vs the Protestants but I really didn't know anything about the details...

I'm afraid my historical expertise in Europe stops at the middle ages. I don't know much about the 20th century anywhere, even in the U.S.

Here is a link to the Wikipedia article on them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_Reconciliation_Commission_(South_Africa)

To put the troubles in Ireland into today's perspective, consider them as analagous to the fight between Shias and Shiites in Iraq.
In those days there was a similar antagonism between the catholics and the Protestants. James II was heavily on the side of the catholics. Essentially the British parliament, heavily Protestant, forced him to abdicate and crowned William king and Mary queen. You may remember William and Mary, there is a US college named after them.
James goes off to France, gets help from catholic France and catholic Irish, and tries to regain his throne through a rebellion in Ireland. He lost at the Boyne. Protestants had defeated the hated catholics.
Over the years, the hatred between Catholics and Protestants has almost been eliminated in the rest of Britain. The Irish, however, have long memories, there the tensions still exist. The Shia/Shiite comparison is, I think, most apt.

Well guys,In my opinion the ultimate conclusion will be a united Ireland,when and in what forum,I really dont know,but theres a few reasons why its inevitable.
1. The population of Northern Ireland is roughly 53%-47% Unionist,the Protestant population has been on the decline for about 40 years,wheras the Nationalist/Catholic population has until recently been on the increase,so in theory,the Nationalists could breed themselves into unification.
2.The UK Government has already stated,it has no longterm interests in Northern Ireland,and would gladly leave if it got the chance.This last statement made some years ago,seen an upsurge in Unionist circles for an Independant N.I.,as a country standing on its own,it wouldnt be feasable.There was an argument that the Republic couldnt afford N.Ireland,tho that all changed when the 'celtic tiger' kicked in and for about 10 years the R of I was the fastest growing economy in the world.
Longterm some sort of Federal system,not unlike the US is probably the only solution in which the Unionists are a minority on the Island and which would give them some sort of Independance within a United country.Its strange when you think that Unionists would have more ower in a United Ireland than theyll ever have in a United Kingdom.

In the US, immediately after independance, a government was born called the Articles of Confederation, which was a loose banding of the states together with a weak federal government. It proved impotent, and was replaced an a short period of years.

How long do you think it would take Ireland to achieve stability should the UK pull out tomorrow?

Tough question.Theres a lot of people on both sides who are against the present peace process.
On the Republican side,hardliners call men like Gerry Adams a traitor to the cause.
On the Unionist side,some politcians refuse to sit in Government with what they term 'terrorists',also, on the Unionist side,Protestant extremeists,who over the years worked with British Military Intelligence,and RUC Special Branch,in targetting and assinating Catholics,are into selling drugs,prostitution and raketeering,big time,and apart from they're hatred of Catholics and all things Irish,they dont want to loose they're crinimal gains.

Governments do not impede criminal activity, they enable it. After all, it's the criminals who end up as politicians in a free state.

Some of the collusion is catalogued here.

http://www.relativesforjustice.com/32/Home.html

Do you think something like the truth commissions done in South Africa might help reconcile Northern Ireland as well?
This is something that the British Government isnt keen on,for a number of reasons.
1.RUC Special Branch and British Military Intelligence were deeply involved in passing security files of Catholics to Protestant Death Squads.Thus would expose the 'dirty war' to the public,leaving the British exposed to ridicule and compensation claims.
Cost.The cost of any exposure would be enourmous as public enquirys would be called for,as in the 'Bloody Sunday Inquiry'.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/in_depth/northern_ireland/2000/bloody_sunday_inquiry/

It might not be good for the British, but it might help reconcile the Irish Catholics and Protestants.

Well it might,but theres a lot of people out there in senior positions who wouldnt want exposed,it will all come out i about 100 years when those involved are long dead.

Well guys,In my opinion the ultimate conclusion will be a united Ireland,when and in what forum,I really dont know,but theres a few reasons why its inevitable.
1. The population of Northern Ireland is roughly 53%-47% Unionist,the Protestant population has been on the decline for about 40 years,wheras the Nationalist/Catholic population has until recently been on the increase,so in theory,the Nationalists could breed themselves into unification.
2.The UK Government has already stated,it has no longterm interests in Northern Ireland,and would gladly leave if it got the chance.This last statement made some years ago,seen an upsurge in Unionist circles for an Independant N.I.,as a country standing on its own,it wouldnt be feasable.There was an argument that the Republic couldnt afford N.Ireland,tho that all changed when the 'celtic tiger' kicked in and for about 10 years the R of I was the fastest growing economy in the world.
Longterm some sort of Federal system,not unlike the US is probably the only solution in which the Unionists are a minority on the Island and which would give them some sort of Independance within a United country.Its strange when you think that Unionists would have more ower in a United Ireland than theyll ever have in a United Kingdom.
The ulitmate solution is for Ireland, both north and south, to merge along with England and Scotland and Wales into a greater Europe.

Ireland and the UK already do that,the UK are a bit reluctant to do it tho,as they enjoy sucking up to America so much.

Ireland and the UK already do that,the UK are a bit reluctant to do it tho,as they enjoy sucking up to America so much.
The British are a lot smarter "sucking up" to America than, say, the French--although the Japanese are far and away the smartest about this.

Yep,very anti Catholic.The Orange Order is a big thing in the Protestant Community,they're movement stems back to William of Orange,who was also William the something of England,Battle of Boyne 1690,William of Orange,Dutch,defeated James ?,King of England,in the Boyne Valley,Co.Meath,only in Ireland eh.


I was in Dublin a couple years ago for St Pattys Day and a friend of mine *almost* wore an orange shirt. We were supposed to meet at the bar but luckily we stopped at his room and caught him before he left. That could have been very ugly.