This changed my whole religous view point. I used to be christian and now I'm...well...nothing really. I guess Agnostic is the word. A couple years back I was really into christianity. I went to church etc. One day, when I was just looking around on another site, I stumbled across this. When I read it, I thought, this is just something some smart ass made up. I pulled out a bible and looked these up and they were in there. I'll admit, I was shocked. It was like eating and really enjoying an apple only to find out it had a worm in it. Since then I have stopped going to church and avoided all things Christian.


Quote
A Letter to Dr. Laura
Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality. Recently, she said that as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned in any circumstance.

The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet:

______________________________________________


Dear Dr. Laura

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev.15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell ? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some room for negotiation here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan,______________________________________________ _________

Oh god... best line ever... "Why can't I own Canadians?"

:lolhit:

ahh leviticus. the old testment, so much more fun than the new.

This changed my whole religous view point. I used to be christian and now I'm...well...nothing really. I guess Agnostic is the word. A couple years back I was really into christianity. I went to church etc. One day, when I was just looking around on another site, I stumbled across this. When I read it, I thought, this is just something some smart ass made up. I pulled out a bible and looked these up and they were in there. I'll admit, I was shocked. It was like eating and really enjoying an apple only to find out it had a worm in it. Since then I have stopped going to church and avoided all things Christian.


Quote
A Letter to Dr. Laura
Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality. Recently, she said that as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned in any circumstance.

The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet:

______________________________________________


Dear Dr. Laura

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to follow them.

1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev.15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell ? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some room for negotiation here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted disciple and adoring fan,______________________________________________ _________


If simpy reading stuff from the Old Testament turned you into an Agonostic, I highly doubt you were Christian to begin with.

If simpy reading stuff from the Old Testament turned you into an Agonostic, I highly doubt you were Christian to begin with.

Yep, true Christians don't apply any logic when it comes to the Bible.

I find it very ironic that if more Christians actually read their Bibles, there'd be fewer Christians.

"Mommy, I want a Canadian!"
"Wait until your birthday."


This needs to be in the humor section, I think.

This changed my whole religous view point. I used to be christian and now I'm...well...nothing really. I guess Agnostic is the word. A couple years back I was really into christianity. I went to church etc. One day, when I was just looking around on another site, I stumbled across this. When I read it, I thought, this is just something some smart ass made up. I pulled out a bible and looked these up and they were in there. I'll admit, I was shocked. It was like eating and really enjoying an apple only to find out it had a worm in it. Since then I have stopped going to church and avoided all things Christian.

What I'd like to know is how did you become a Christian in the first place if something as trivial as reading Lev. with a modern person's sensibility completely nullifies your religiocity. For that matter, how most of the Christians who easily deconvert after reading the bible became a Christian in the first place.

"Mommy, I want a Canadian!"
"Wait until your birthday."
HAH. So hilarious.

"Mommy, I want a Canadian!"
"Wait until your birthday."

"Gordon Lightfoot? But I wanted Wayne Gretzky!"
"Gordon Lightfoot was all we could afford, dear."

What I'd like to know is how did you become a Christian in the first place if something as trivial as reading Lev.
Christians are born, not made.

Christians are born, not made.
Well, they are not actually "born" Christians--belief is not wired in our genes.

What is wired in our genes is an instinct to learn (during childhood) and to hold onto what we learned as adults.

The natural selection that lead to this human characteristic probably came from the advantage a community has if all its members share the same outlook, mythical story vocabulary, moral rules, and so on.

Beliefs acquired in childhood are not intellectual opinons we are taught or otherwise come to later in life. They are things we take for granted as true, rarely if ever even coming to our conscious attention as things that might be false.

In the modern world, where cultures come into challenging contacts and where independent thinking has shown a considerable value on its own, many do come to question the instinctually learned childhood beliefs.

The body has ways to deal with such things--they are called emotions. When we doubt, we experience fear or guilt or both. When we surrender to the instinctive reaction, we experience peace and joy. Those who do not surrender often come to hate the religous beliefs that cause them so much emotional suffering.

We need to recognize that most if not all emotions stem from instinctive desires--in this case the desire to "hold fast to the faith." Once we overcome desires, we are on the way to being truly free--not only from our childhood conditioning, but also from the anger or hate we may feel about it.

You really like to use lots of words, don't you?

At any rate, the Catholic Church, as well as many other faiths, considers a child born of a Christian family Christian. You can later recant, but beliefs are not all that make a Christian.

And you manage to contribute nothing in your brevity.

At any rate, the Catholic Church, as well as many other faiths, considers a child born of a Christian family Christian. You can later recant, but beliefs are not all that make a Christian.
To be a Christian child requires baptism to be Catholic.
What is wired in our genes is an instinct to learn (during childhood) and to hold onto what we learned as adults.
It's actually a bit of fantasizing and gullibility that go a bit too far, it seems.

To be a Christian child requires baptism to be Catholic.

It's actually a bit of fantasizing and gullibility that go a bit too far, it seems.
It often appears like fantasy and gullibility to others, but those who "hold fast" to childhood-learned beliefs are actually extremely resistant to fantasies other than those they already have, and are no more or less "gullible" than anyone else.

It is just that questioning these beliefs is unpleasant. The brain storms you with chemicals you experience as fear and guilt. If the doubts persist you become angry--especially at those who push them on you.

At the same time, when you stop resisting and go back to the faith, your brain rewards you with different chemicals that you experience as joy and peace.

I think that many get out of this trap because our brain also has a "reality checker" built in (for other purposes--the instinct to believe serves the survival of the group, the reality checker is more immediate and serves individual survival).

So those who were believers but change are angry at those who still believe, and those who still believe are angry at those who don't.

Most religions, seen as memes, have devices to reinforce belief within their teachings. The most obvious of these is the promotion of "faith" as a virtue--often the prime virtue--belief is essential for salvation. The fact that "faith" is just intellectual stubborness wrapped in sheep's clothing is never noticed.

Well, they are not actually "born" Christians--belief is not wired in our genes. actually they found a gene that corresponds to religious fanaticism. As to what degree one is considered a fanatic I have no clue.

actually they found a gene that corresponds to religious fanaticism. As to what degree one is considered a fanatic I have no clue.
I really can believe that fanatical tendencies are at least partly genetic. We know that schizophrenia is largely genetic, and a tendency toward fanaticism can be seen as a very similar (although by no means as debilitating) personality trait.

To ShelbyIsKewl
Registered User

You can't lose what you never had. YAHWEH is there no matter what you think . Now you can have this

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
NKJV

or

Rev 21:8
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
NKJV


It is your choice.

You can't lose what you never had. YAHWEH is there no matter what you think . Now you can have this.

I have a question that has always bothered me. The Tetragrammaton (YHWH) as God's name appears more than 4,000 times in the Hebrew OT, but not once in the NT (although the Jehovah's Witnesses' translation of the Bible manages to insert it, without any MSS support).

At the time Jesus is said to have lived, there was a Sadduceean and Pharisaic rule against saying this "Name of God" aloud, although this rule has no basis in the OT itself.

Probably for related reasons (fear that non-Jews would pronounce it if they saw it), the LXX translators did not use the Tetragrammaton in their Greek translation. (They used Greek words for "God" and "Lord" instead).

As a result, a non-Hebrew reading the LXX (i.e., someone who spoke Greek but not Aramaic or Hebrew) would get no hint that this "name of God" had ever existed.

What would a real "Jesus" have thought of this rule? One presumes he would have denounced it. He was not afraid of all the Sadduceean and Pharisaic rules.

But Jesus doesn't. Nowhere in the NT is the issue even raised, pro or con. God the Father's very name is never mentioned, not even in the quotes from the OT where it would have been found in the Hebrew Bible (but not in the LXX).

For example, in "Acts," where the Apostles meet to decide what rules the Christian must follow, a place where we would think the matter would come up, it doesn't.

It seems to me the only reasonable conclusion is that the NT authors were Greeks, not Hebrews and not Jews. They had the LXX as their OT, and therefore had no clue that this name even existed. Hence it is not in the NT, neither identified or even discussed.

This is just one item of evidence that leads me to think that Jesus never really existed, but was an invention of a Greek, not Palestinian, mystery cult that had attached itself to the Jewish Messianistic hope.

Do you or someone else have a different explanation?

GOD HATES SHRIMP (http://godhatesshrimp.com/)

That is an interesting question. First there is a Hebrew Matthew but not accessable to most people. It looks to me as if once YAHSHUA appeared the title became The Father. Now if that was good enough for YAHSHUA it is good enough for me.
But thislin you are what is called a scoffer and here is what the Bible says about that.
Prov 24:9
9 The devising of foolishness is sin,
And the scoffer is an abomination to men.
NKJV

As long as you're reading the Bible janrich, don't forget Luke 18.

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable:

10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.

11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about[a] himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.

12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'

13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

14 "I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

That is an interesting question. First there is a Hebrew Matthew but not accessable to most people. It looks to me as if once YAHSHUA appeared the title became The Father. Now if that was good enough for YAHSHUA it is good enough for me.
But thislin you are what is called a scoffer and here is what the Bible says about that.
Prov 24:9
9 The devising of foolishness is sin,
And the scoffer is an abomination to men.
NKJV
You accuse me of being a "scoffer." Frankly I do not include myself in that category, since I take all religions seriously, and think highly of modern Liberal Christianity.

I am however a skeptic when it comes to religion, as I know how readily people become deluded and I understand the power of childhood teaching to establish delusions.

My point about the Tetragrammaton is that it is not in the NT but absolutely prevails in the OT. This presents a quandary to those who think the NT was written by Palestinian Jews (or former Jews), since they would have known about it.

Still, nowhere do they mention it--which is really puzzling. I take it as evidence the NT was not written by Palestinians at all, but by Greeks.

"Gordon Lightfoot? But I wanted Wayne Gretzky!"
"Gordon Lightfoot was all we could afford, dear."

Now that was funny. You took a mediocre joke and made it gold.

All of The Bible is worth reading many times. And yes I am a saved sinner.

All of The Bible is worth reading many times. And yes I am a saved sinner.
I don't believe anyone has ever read Jeremiah all the way though, let alone the entire Bible. Such claims are easy to make, but even reading the words aloud does not mean you have really read it.

You never did answer my question as to the last line in all your posts .
Now reguarding the fact you don't think anyone has read The Bible all the way through that is really a mistake . My family together every morning when possible read thru The Bible it took us over a year. We have read The Torah 5 times . We have read together Isaiah twice, Revelations 5 times. We have read Leviticus several times. When people get interested in The Bible you would be amazed at how easy it be comes to read it everyday when possible.

The Torah is read twice a year, during Passover and during the fall Feasts. It was a wonderful Passover and Feast of Unleaven Bread this year. We don't know how to do First Fruits yet.

You never did answer my question as to the last line in all your posts .
Now reguarding the fact you don't think anyone has read The Bible all the way through that is really a mistake . My family together every morning when possible read thru The Bible it took us over a year. We have read The Torah 5 times . We have read together Isaiah twice, Revelations 5 times. We have read Leviticus several times. When people get interested in The Bible you would be amazed at how easy it be comes to read it everyday when possible.

The Torah is read twice a year, during Passover and during the fall Feasts. It was a wonderful Passover and Feast of Unleaven Bread this year. We don't know how to do First Fruits yet.
Yea, but how often have you read Jeremiah?

You never did answer my question as to the last line in all your posts .
Now reguarding the fact you don't think anyone has read The Bible all the way through that is really a mistake . My family together every morning when possible read thru The Bible it took us over a year. We have read The Torah 5 times . We have read together Isaiah twice, Revelations 5 times. We have read Leviticus several times. When people get interested in The Bible you would be amazed at how easy it be comes to read it everyday when possible.

The Torah is read twice a year, during Passover and during the fall Feasts. It was a wonderful Passover and Feast of Unleaven Bread this year. We don't know how to do First Fruits yet.
You celebrate Passover? I thought you were Christian.

My family together every morning when possible read thru The Bible it took us over a year...We have read together Isaiah twice, Revelations 5 times. We have read Leviticus several times.

||||||cue music||||||

neeee noo neeee noo neeee noo neeee noo neeee noooooooooo...........

"You are entering a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind..........""

||||||cue music||||||

neeee noo neeee noo neeee noo neeee noo neeee noooooooooo...........

"You are entering a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind..........""

That music doesn't quite sound like the Twilight Zone theme to ME, FT.

Freethinker, its funny that you make fun of christians while you have black helicopters circling your house.

Thislin Is there something about the last line in your posts you don't want us to know??? You ask questions want answers but refuse to answer that one.

Jeremiah ? no special reason why we haven't. Once we had read thru The Bible together then we each had our favorite books, the Torah as commanded, but I will put Jeremiah on the list as next . My daughter said most people think it is too gloomy . Is that your point? I find The Bible a truth I had better listen too.

lol didn't like the choice of music.

You celebrate Passover? I thought you were Christian.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHSHUA went to Passover, During the 1000yr reign of YAHSHUA He will demand the nations come to Jerusalem once a year for The Feast of Booths.
That is also one of The Feasts of YAHWEH. My Bible has both OT and NT. It is one book for me. I read no where in NT that tells me to throw away the OT.

Ten Commandments were reinforced in the NT.

1. Thou shall worship YAHWEH thy GOD and Him only shall thou serve----Matthew 4:10

2. " Little children keep yourselves from idols." "Fore as much then as we are the offspring of GOD. we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone graven by art and man's device."--------1 John -5:21 Acts -17:29.

3. "That the name of YAHWEH and His doctrine be not blasphemed."------------1 Timothy 6:1

4. "Pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. neither on The Sabbath day." " The Sabbath was made for man and not man for The Sabbath: therefore The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. " "For He spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, and GOD did rest the seventh day from all His works."
" There remaineth therefore a keeping of The Sabbath to the people of GOD. For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works. as GOD did from His. "For by Him were all things created that are in heaven and that are in earth." --- Matthew 24:20-----Mark 2:27-28------Hebrew4:4 -9-10------Colossians 1:16


5. "Honor thy father and thy mother." Matthew 19:19

6. "Thou shall not murder." Romans 13:9

7. "Thou shall not commit adultery." Matthew 19:18----------Romans 13:9

8. "Thou shall not steal." Romans 13:9

9. "Thou shall not bear false witness." Romans 13:9

10. "Thou shall not covet." Romans 7:7 ------Romans 13:9

3. "That the name of YAHWEH and His doctrine be not blasphemed."------------1 Timothy 6:1 I always thought this is highly misinterpretted and perversed.

It doesn't mean you can't say bad words.

It means anyone who says "God said so" to fulfill their own ambitions are sinning. TV preachers and other powerful shurch leaders will never tell you this though.

Thislin Is there something about the last line in your posts you don't want us to know??? You ask questions want answers but refuse to answer that one.

Jeremiah ? no special reason why we haven't. Once we had read thru The Bible together then we each had our favorite books, the Torah as commanded, but I will put Jeremiah on the list as next . My daughter said most people think it is too gloomy . Is that your point? I find The Bible a truth I had better listen too.
The Bible is horribly pretentious and boring, not something written by God at all. That is my point--people who tell us they read the Bible are fooling themselves, and mabye just outright lying. Jeremiah is only one example.

The reality is that maybe one percent of the Bible is ever really read.

The Bible is horribly pretentious and boring, not something written by God at all. That is my point--people who tell us they read the Bible are fooling themselves, and mabye just outright lying. Jeremiah is only one example.

The reality is that maybe one percent of the Bible is ever really read.I agree that the Bible is dull and dreadfully written but fail to see how you can infer from this a statistical generality about how much (or little) of it is read and by how many (or few) people.

I agree that the Bible is dull and dreadfully written but fail to see how you can infer from this a statistical generality about how much (or little) of it is read and by how many (or few) people.
I have a good deal more discipline reading boring material than most, having dealt with technical writing much of my career, and I know I can't sit and "read" the thing. (Oh, of course one can sit an mouth the words, but that is only mouthing the words, not reading).

Therefore I assume people who make such grandiose claims are, well, only being grandiose. I also just can't believe such a set of writings would be "God's Word." Would an omniscient being be so boring and verbose?

So what will you do when you die and find out your wrong.That there is a Jesus and he did die for our sins and the Bible is Gods inflawable word?

The Bible is horribly pretentious and boring, not something written by God at all. That is my point--people who tell us they read the Bible are fooling themselves, and mabye just outright lying. Jeremiah is only one example.

The reality is that maybe one percent of the Bible is ever really read.
You quote budda but, not like the Bible, the Bible is inspired to man by God.

So what will you do when you die and find out your wrong.That there is a Jesus and he did die for our sins and the Bible is Gods inflawable word?
I have a more elevated view of what God would be than you do. In fact, I suspect judgmental types like yourself will not do well.

You quote budda but, not like the Bible, the Bible is inspired to man by God.
The word is "Buddha." It is not a name but a title, and the quote is not from "the Buddha" (Guatama, or "Siddhartha" Buddha) but from a different figure ("Kassapa Buddha").

Jumping to conclusions is inappropriate when you are so ignorant.

I don't think anything in words can be "God's word." God is perfect and human languages are not--therefore nothing in human language can be perfect or from God. It is all human invention.

The Bible in particular, except for Ecclesiastes, is disqualified as being from God. It contains no end of absurdities, boredom, crude brutality, and glittering genralities in place of real wisdom. (Ecclesiastes is pretty damn good and demonstrates real wisdom).

I believe that religion is in the soul and not the organized religion. Judge not, lest thee be judged.

I believe that religion is in the soul and not the organized religion. Judge not, lest thee be judged.
I don't know that there is anything wrong with believers organizing themselves, although for sure it is not required.

Maybe what I want to say is that organized religion gets a bad rap.

Freethinker, its funny that you make fun of christians while you have black helicopters circling your house.

Well, firstly, finding things that superstitionists do or believe that would cause them to be made fun of is about as challenging as hunting dairy cows with a high powered rifle.

BTW ----- in the 7511 posts I have made here I have never used the phrase *black helicopters* ---nor have I suggested the existence of *black helicopters*.

So what will you do when you die and find out your wrong.That there is a Jesus and he did die for our sins and the Bible is Gods inflawable word? What will you do when you die and find out you are wrong? That the Flying Spaghetti Monster created us all with his noodly appendage and you'll have no part in the Beer volcano OR the stripper factory...

In the rather unlikely event that there is an afterlife, the odds are it is something along the lines of technologically advanced societies out looking for new blood. I rather doubt they will be much interested in superstititious believers in vengeful gods. They will be more interested in artists and inventors and scientists and so on.

Of course the traditional Buddhist view is another possibility--in that case I have to wonder where the Christians who think we are going to Hell will end up when they are reborn. Buddhist tradition is not free of its own hells (I think there are seventeen of them). The difference is that one is not there forever--only so long as is needed to wear off all the negative kharma one accumulates thinking others are going to Hell.

In the rather unlikely event that there is an afterlife, the odds are it is something along the lines of technologically advanced societies out looking for new blood. I rather doubt they will be much interested in superstititious believers in vengeful gods. They will be more interested in artists and inventors and scientists and so on.

Of course the traditional Buddhist view is another possibility--in that case I have to wonder where the Christians who think we are going to Hell will end up when they are reborn. Buddhist tradition is not free of its own hells (I think there are seventeen of them). The difference is that one is not there forever--only so long as is needed to wear off all the negative kharma one accumulates thinking others are going to Hell.
There is going to be a new Heaven and new earth those who end up in the lake of fire will be there for all eternity.Really, read the Bible ask God to open your heart to his word.The Holy Spirit will guide you.

There is going to be a new Heaven and new earth those who end up in the lake of fire will be there for all eternity.Really, read the Bible ask God to open your heart to his word.The Holy Spirit will guide you.Read the Bible??

I'm sure Thislin never thought of that!

Thislin may be hard pressed to find one in Vietnam. Perhaps Batgirl can whip a handy dandy bible out of her utility belt, it's probably next to the mayonnaise grenade knife and jewel thief repellent.

BTW ----- in the 7511 posts I have made here I have never used the phrase *black helicopters* ---nor have I suggested the existence of *black helicopters*.
go ahead, they exist....i've seen them. i'll back you up on it.

Read the Bible??

I'm sure Thislin never thought of that!
Batgirl takes a mindless, arrogant approach--I have to say she has nothing whatsoever to contribute, at least so far.

Thislin may be hard pressed to find one in Vietnam. Perhaps Batgirl can whip a handy dandy bible out of her utility belt, it's probably next to the mayonnaise grenade knife and jewel thief repellent.
Bibles are readily available in Vietnam. In fact, the major religious groups are given free and unrestricted slots on national TV (Buddhists, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Caodai, Hindus), although the productions are so amateurish and boring I doubt anyone watches.

Religions are active and well there--the churches and temples and monasteries are all functioning. They are building or have built all sorts of religious statues defacing many naturally beautiful places. Mary is everywhere, competing with Quan Yin, and Jesus drips blood into many a valley--statues of him are as common as statues of Uncle Ho.

What is not allowed are foreign missionaries--ignorant, self-righteous types who think nothing of trampling over traditional values. Most countries find they only cause trouble, and Vietnam is a good example.

Buddhist 9.3%, Catholic 6.7%, Hoa Hao 1.5%, Cao Dai 1.1%, Protestant 0.5%, Muslim 0.1%, none 80.8% (1999 census)

Buddhists are still winning. Huzzah.

1 Tim 6:1
6:1 Honor Masters


Let as many bondservants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and His doctrine may not be blasphemed.
NKJV


blasphemeo

NT:987 blasphemeo (blas-fay-meh'-o); from NT:989; to vilify; specially, to speak impiously:


KJV - (speak) blaspheme (-er, -mously, -my), defame, rail on, revile, speak evil.



NT:988 blasphemia (blas-fay-me'-ah); from NT:989; vilification (especially against God):


KJV - blasphemy, evil speaking, railing.



NT:989 blasphemos (blas'-fay-mos); from a derivative of NT:984 and NT:5345; scurrilious, i.e. calumnious (against men), or (specially) impious (against God):


KJV - blasphemer (-mous), railing.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Go get them Bat Girl(:

The Bible will seem that way if a person is not one of The Elect.

Buddhist 9.3%, Catholic 6.7%, Hoa Hao 1.5%, Cao Dai 1.1%, Protestant 0.5%, Muslim 0.1%, none 80.8% (1999 census)

Buddhists are still winning. Huzzah.
Those percentages must be "official" (in Communist countries that means "made up" figures). Officially only old people are religious: stupid nonsense, although "membership" in an organized religion is a Western concept--one is free to go to Buddhist temple one day and to Caodai prayer the next (only the Christians discourage this).

Even party members go to Temple, so it doesn't mean much. I would say maybe 20 percent are Roman Catholic, 60 percent are one or another Buddhist "sect" (there are about a dozen, including Hoahao and a mix of Taoism and Buddhism), 10 percent (or somewhat less) are Caodai (the numbers are decreasing since this one is watched--it allied itself with the South during the American War) and the rest Christian Protestant and Hindu.

I did once see a Mosque, but it was a small thing and no one I asked knew anything about it.

As far as who is "winning," you would think there is competition going on (although of course no one admits to it). Proselytizing is banned, of course, but they still try to reach people with religious statues (almost everywhere) and banners (only on church property).

Far and away the most common religious statue is of the Chinese Buddhist Bodhisattva Quan Yin. She adorns the roofs of a lot of homes. Mary is also seen, and the most gory, bloody Jesuses to be found.

There are also many statues of the "fat Buddha" (not the Buddha at all but Bodhisattva Metteya, another Chinese Buddhist figure). It is socially expected that one will rub or pat his belly at any opportunity for good luck.

The Bible will seem that way if a person is not one of The Elect.
When you die and then find yourself a hungry ghost, don't say you weren't warned. <grin>.

When you die and then find yourself a hungry ghost, don't say you weren't warned. <grin>.


lol thats not going to happen.

lol thats not going to happen.
I wouldn't be so sure. You think you will go to Heaven and are happy to imagine others in Hell. You sound very much like hungry ghost material.

By the way, do you even know what a "hungry ghost" is? It might be useful to find out so that if you ever do find yourself one, you will at least understand your situation.

I love all the spook stories to scare people into submission of a religion. Holding your immortal soul hostage to do a certian thing like accept jesus as your savior. it is a great gimmick and suckers are born every second. When I die I will probably return the energy of the universe of which I was created. My knowlege of who I am will be gone along with my brain which creates the concept of self. I will have no eyes to see or ears to hear or to enjoy some fictious place called heaven.

I love all the spook stories to scare people into submission of a religion. Holding your immortal soul hostage to do a certian thing like accept jesus as your savior. it is a great gimmick and suckers are born every second. When I die I will probably return the energy of the universe of which I was created. My knowlege of who I am will be gone along with my brain which creates the concept of self. I will have no eyes to see or ears to hear or to enjoy some fictious place called heaven.
I do hope you understand that I am jerking his leg about hungry ghosts. He has the arrogance to threaten me with Hell (of course he does it subtly, which is even more crass than if he said it openly), so I feel I have every right to point out to him that there are other possibilities.

By way of explanation, a "hungry ghost" is a figure of Buddhist lore--very much believed in Vietnam--of a person who was self-righteous and greedy all his or her life. They find they cannot be reborn, so they exist as a dematerialized spirit--with the desire to partake of physical existence (mainly to eat) but unable to do so (since they have no physical body).

They are pictured as vindictive, fearsome beings very much to be avoided if at all possible. They harm people by getting them into dangerous situations and then frightening them so as to cause an accident (such as what Hamlet's associates warned Hamlet of when he persisted in following his father's ghost).

I am quite sure that the pirate ghosts of the Disney Caribbean Pirates movie was drawn from this concept.

I wouldn't be so sure. You think you will go to Heaven and are happy to imagine others in Hell. You sound very much like hungry ghost material.

By the way, do you even know what a "hungry ghost" is? It might be useful to find out so that if you ever do find yourself one, you will at least understand your situation.

No Thislin I won't. This is the last post I will make to you. You have refused over and over to explain the last line in your postings. I guess your ashamed to explain it. Don't bother to answer now. I think I know why and I am not to respond to people of false religion (that doesn't include Jews and mixed up "christians"). To reply to you would be the same as replying to a witch ect.

No Thislin I won't. This is the last post I will make to you. You have refused over and over to explain the last line in your postings. I guess your ashamed to explain it. Don't bother to answer now. I think I know why and I am not to respond to people of false religion (that doesn't include Jews and mixed up "christians"). To reply to you would be the same as replying to a witch ect.


False religion!! ROFLMAO!! Witches or better known as wiccans are a false religion. Lets see thier religion was here long before your humans created jesus and the judeo version of god.

To not talk or debate with someone of a "false religion" is just a cheap attempt to dig your head in the sand to ignore the facts that other religions of the world are just as correct if not more correct than your own.

:cat:

I think I know why and I am not to respond to people of false religion (that doesn't include Jews and mixed up "christians"). To reply to you would be the same as replying to a witch ect.

Janrich, when I read comments like the above I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

With that one statement, you've shown yourself to be an ignorant and sanctimonious prig, a true descendant of the settlers of Salem, Massachusetts during the late 1600's.

I'd imagine you've never even heard of that little village and what went on there, but they had the excuse of living in a fearful and academically ignorant time.

What's your excuse?

As a "mixed-up Christian-- --your definition, not mine, I say, your babbling grows tiresome.

No Thislin I won't. This is the last post I will make to you. You have refused over and over to explain the last line in your postings. I guess your ashamed to explain it. Don't bother to answer now. I think I know why and I am not to respond to people of false religion (that doesn't include Jews and mixed up "christians"). To reply to you would be the same as replying to a witch ect.
I can tell you don't like to read things you disagree with. However, it would be self-defeating, if you want to participate on a board, to try to ignore anyone else who is also posting.

For example, as you can see, your attempt to keep me from responding was futile--this is a response. You may or may not read it, but just consider that if you don't, then what I say goes unchallenged. I doubt you would want that.

I can tell you don't like to read things you disagree with. However, it would be self-defeating, if you want to participate on a board, to try to ignore anyone else who is also posting.

For example, as you can see, your attempt to keep me from responding was futile--this is a response. You may or may not read it, but just consider that if you don't, then what I say goes unchallenged. I doubt you would want that.
By the way, what "last line" are you talking about?

False religion!! ROFLMAO!! Witches or better known as wiccans are a false religion. Lets see thier religion was here long before your humans created jesus and the judeo version of god.

To not talk or debate with someone of a "false religion" is just a cheap attempt to dig your head in the sand to ignore the facts that other religions of the world are just as correct if not more correct than your own.

:cat:
I think your claims about Wicca are too far reaching. Past "pagan" practices and modern Wicca are related only by modern design, and, in fact, reflect little real understanding of the animist impulse that is behind truly ancient religions. If you like we can talk about that.

I think your claims about Wicca are too far reaching. Past "pagan" practices and modern Wicca are related only by modern design, and, in fact, reflect little real understanding of the animist impulse that is behind truly ancient religions. If you like we can talk about that.
hmmm

well if you are talking about animal sacrificing pagans were not the only people who did this practice. In the old testiment is was common practice. The old testiment is riddles with animalistic rituals of human and crimes against humanity.

pagans were not alone responsible for atrocieties on man kinds.

as for wiccans there is neopaganism witches and old school witches who actually have schools in England that teach practices from way before christians came to convert everyone to christ.

So perhaps you are not clued into actually how many divisions of wiccan there are. As like christianity there are many splinter groups ones you may have heard of and ones I am sure you have not. If you wish I can give you links to the old school witches who still practice the anceint ways.

hmmm

well if you are talking about animal sacrificing pagans were not the only people who did this practice. In the old testiment is was common practice. The old testiment is riddles with animalistic rituals of human and crimes against humanity.

pagans were not alone responsible for atrocieties on man kinds.

as for wiccans there is neopaganism witches and old school witches who actually have schools in England that teach practices from way before christians came to convert everyone to christ.

So perhaps you are not clued into actually how many divisions of wiccan there are. As like christianity there are many splinter groups ones you may have heard of and ones I am sure you have not. If you wish I can give you links to the old school witches who still practice the anceint ways.
I just think the claims that the modern movement derives from ancient religion is not accurate. It was invented and designed with some of these ancient practices in mind, but it has no direct connection.

The truly ancient religion of mankind is not witchcraft or any sort of special powers possessed by any defined group, such as a priesthood, but "animism."

This is the belief that all the world--living things, what we call non-living things (rocks, rivers, mountains, etc.) are all animate the way we are animate (we have thoughts, emotions, purposes, etc.) Wicca contains traces of this--I think most religions do except those that have divorced themselves from the physical world, such as Christianity.

Animist thinking is a natural projection from introspection about ourselves. Just as you assume I am animate based only on the projection that I must have properties similar to those you find in yourself, the animist makes the same assumption about everything.

Animism has nothing to do with "worship," but everything to do with trying to get along with all these animate entities ("spirits" is the usual translation--a poor translation). So the animist has little and not-so-little rituals to "placate" them when he must do something they won't like (such as hunt them) and other rituals to be polite and stay on good terms (such as greeting the sun as it rises).

That this is "religion" is a Western notion, and we distort what it really is by thinking of practical respect as worship and of animating spirits as something supernatural.

I just think the claims that the modern movement derives from ancient religion is not accurate. It was invented and designed with some of these ancient practices in mind, but it has no direct connection.

The truly ancient religion of mankind is not witchcraft or any sort of special powers possessed by any defined group, such as a priesthood, but "animism."

This is the belief that all the world--living things, what we call non-living things (rocks, rivers, mountains, etc.) are all animate the way we are animate (we have thoughts, emotions, purposes, etc.) Wicca contains traces of this--I think most religions do except those that have divorced themselves from the physical world, such as Christianity.

Animist thinking is a natural projection from introspection about ourselves. Just as you assume I am animate based only on the projection that I must have properties similar to those you find in yourself, the animist makes the same assumption about everything.

Animism has nothing to do with "worship," but everything to do with trying to get along with all these animate entities ("spirits" is the usual translation--a poor translation). So the animist has little and not-so-little rituals to "placate" them when he must do something they won't like (such as hunt them) and other rituals to be polite and stay on good terms (such as greeting the sun as it rises).

That this is "religion" is a Western notion, and we distort what it really is by thinking of practical respect as worship and of animating spirits as something supernatural.


yes I understand what you are saying. The several dozen books I have read about wicca many worship the gods and goddesses from greek mythology especially the female goddesses since wiccans in europe were very female oriented and put females in the highest leadership positions.

Christianity which was a very male oriented religion and condemned woman because eve supposely caused the downfall of men from gods grass was not to be honored and christians worked very hard to wipe out this concept that woman could be strong and spiritual leaders. Whole villigages were wiped out and burned unless you converted and the woman priestesswere replaced by male role models.

There is much documentation of this from Christians themselves from these centries not public knowledge because it is something the same with the crusades that the christians rather not have the masses know what truly went on when they gained control.

By the way, what "last line" are you talking about?

I believe that means your signature. In reply #285 of the thread "Ever wondered where all the stuff mentioned in the bible is??" janrich456 said "Thislin why the b----a saying at the end of your posts???" (What, does saying 'Buddha' give him power over jan or something? I thought the bible says just the opposite.)

Yeah, I was bored.

I believe that means your signature. In reply #285 of the thread "Ever wondered where all the stuff mentioned in the bible is??" janrich456 said "Thislin why the b----a saying at the end of your posts???" (What, does saying 'Buddha' give him power over jan or something? I thought the bible says just the opposite.)

Yeah, I was bored.
My recollection is that I explained to him that "Kassapa Buddha" is not "Gautama (or Siddhartha) Buddha--commonly known as "the Buddha."

In the Buddhist myth system, there have been many "Buddhas" (and in the Shining Path sect there are today on other planets many Buddhas). Kassapa Buddha preceded the Buddha who established modern Buddhism.

Now that is all just color. I chose this quote because it says something I think is valuable and I tend to try to live by it. Even though I am a vegetarian and even though I, like many vegetarians, find the smell of cooking meat very unpleasant, it is not a "stench," and eating meat is, if it can be said to be an offense at all, it is a very minor offense.

We have to keep our priorities in mind.

Now no Buddha is an object of worship. They are great men who found enlightenment on their own (without the help of a Buddhist church). This is the hard way--the vast majority who find enlightenment ("Erhats") do so under the teaching and guidance of a Buddha or his teaching (usually as a monk).

So such people are greatly respected for their achievement and listened to closely for their teaching. That is all. If he is afraid of some magical intent, he is both superstitious and ignorant.

What I'd like to know is how did you become a Christian in the first place if something as trivial as reading Lev. with a modern person's sensibility completely nullifies your religiocity. For that matter, how most of the Christians who easily deconvert after reading the bible became a Christian in the first place.


So You must dispise the bible. Good man.

Warrier

Hum crusades. Church not wanting the masses to know things. Might you be refering to the Crusaders nasty little habbit of Cooking Up Muslims and eating them outside the walls of the city trying to incite the muslims into charging blindly into the city defences. Or are you refering to something else.