It seems to me that alot of the officials at CAIR want to see the US ruled under Islomic law. (The media never mentions this)

It seems to me that the Imams goal was to get arested.


This is for sure: The American people have fallen into a deep sleep insofar as the threat of another Islamic attack on our country is concerned. The continuous, relentless leftist and Democrat hammering of the president for his conduct of the war on Islamic fascism and security issues at home has taken its toll. We're being targeted for another attack by these practitioners of this wonderful, peaceful religion of Islam. Get the recriminations ready.



http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_071180152.html

Thats a funny way to "wage war on Islamic Fascism", by invading the only secular government in the middle east.

Maybe you only remember what is convenient, like Saddam's staements about opposing institutionalized religion.

But prior to his ouster, Saddam had bought heavily into the "faith campaign". This included building the Saddam University of Islamic Studies, radio stations dedicated to Islamic studies, Baath officials being required to take religious studies. Let's not forget the photo's of Saddam praying either.

Secular? I think not!

If you think Iraq was an Islamic country, just because Saddam attended a Mosque towards the end, then you must also think America is a Christian Nation, just because our President is a born-again Christian and goes to church, is that correct?

I remember that Saddam allowed women to be educated, and drive cars, both of which are illegal under Islamic governments. Women in Iraq under Saddam were doctors and business owners.
I remember that Iraq had freedom of religion, and used to have Christians and Muslims living side by side in peace in the middle of Baghdad.
It is still illegal and punishable by death in Saudi Arabia to possess a Bible.
I remember that in Saudi Arabia, the Religious Police forced 18 young school girls back into a burning dorm building in the middle of the night, to their deaths, because they were not properly dressed.
And they are our "good friends". Go figure.

Yes, I remember that Osama Bin Laden had declared a fatwa against Saddam because Iraq's government was secular, not under Islamic law.
I remember that the reason Bin Laden was arrested and deported out of Saudi Arabia was that he was about to lead an attack on Saddam.

Yes, Iraq used to be a secular government under Saddam whether you believe it or not.

So you remember what is convenient...exactly what I said.

You reduce the "faith campaign" that included the building of the biggest mosque in Baghdad, among the other buildings I mentioned to "just because Saddam attended a Mosque towards the end" because it's inconvenient to your "truth".

When a government uses public funds to build and promote a religion, it is no longer secular...and if that is how you see Goerge Bush and the US, that's your right, but please don't suggest that Iraq was a secular nation.

You have just described our pal Dslugabum almost perfectly.


So you remember what is convenient...exactly what I said.

You reduce the "faith campaign" that included the building of the biggest mosque in Baghdad, among the other buildings I mentioned to "just because Saddam attended a Mosque towards the end" because it's inconvenient to your "truth".

When a government uses public funds to build and promote a religion, it is no longer secular...and if that is how you see Goerge Bush and the US, that's your right, but please don't suggest that Iraq was a secular nation.

So you remember what is convenient...exactly what I said.

Wrong. It seems you are the one with large holes in your memory.


You reduce the "faith campaign" that included the building of the biggest mosque in Baghdad, among the other buildings I mentioned to "just because Saddam attended a Mosque towards the end" because it's inconvenient to your "truth".

The faith campaign, as you call it, is not an indication that Iraq had an Islamic government.


When a government uses public funds to build and promote a religion, it is no longer secular...

According to your "logic" America is not secular just because Christmas is a national holiday.

Nonsense.

and if that is how you see Goerge Bush and the US, that's your right, but please don't suggest that Iraq was a secular nation.

Clearly that is how you see the US, since it is your idea.

Iraq was a secular nation whether you believe it or not. That is a fact.

Dslugabum

This is why you will always be nothing but a Troll, sisko.

If you think Iraq was an Islamic country, just because Saddam attended a Mosque towards the end, then you must also think America is a Christian Nation, just because our President is a born-again Christian and goes to church, is that correct?

I remember that Saddam allowed women to be educated, and drive cars, both of which are illegal under Islamic governments. Women in Iraq under Saddam were doctors and business owners.
I remember that Iraq had freedom of religion, and used to have Christians and Muslims living side by side in peace in the middle of Baghdad.
.

ah yes, the good old days. back when Iraq was free and secure. Almost sounds like a place you would want to move and raise your kids.

ah yes, the good old days. back when Iraq was free and secure. Almost sounds like a place you would want to move and raise your kids.

Wasn't it great when the Iraqi Idiot decided to throw aid and support behind Palestinian terrorists by providing a $25000. cash stipend to the families of homicide bombers?

ah yes, the good old days. back when Iraq was free and secure. Almost sounds like a place you would want to move and raise your kids.

Explains why 90% of Iraqis feel they were better off under Saddam. (http://www.nowpublic.com/90_of_iraqis_say_they_were_better_off_under_saddam _hussein)

Maybe they should watch Fox News so they can learn how much worse off they were before.

:lolhit:

better off? Maybe as in a bum would better off in prison getting three squares and a bed at night as opposed to sleeping under a bridge and eating garbage better off. Does a bum want to go to prison? not likely. DO Iraqis want saddam to return to power? no.

The Imams are going to sue because their freedom of speech was abrogated. What was the very first thing they did at their news conference? They kicked the Christian Broadcasting Network crew out of the room.

Fuck the Immams. This entire fiasco was a set up deal.

DO Iraqis want saddam to return to power?

Saddam is dead, Einstein.

:rolleyes:

Saddam is dead, Einstein.

:rolleyes:

no shit

no shit

Glad I could help educate you.

:lolhit:

The Imams are going to sue because their freedom of speech was abrogated.

Huh?

According to the article posted:

The lawsuit was "brought to ensure that the promise of equal treatment embodied in federal and state anti-discrimination laws does not become a meaningless guarantee for persons perceived to be Muslim and/or Arab and/or Middle Eastern," according to the complaint filed in court.

They're suing because the airline kicked them off the plane and then refused to sell them another ticket.


What was the very first thing they did at their news conference? They kicked the Christian Broadcasting Network crew out of the room.

What news conference? Are you talking about the same group of Imams? Do you have any source you'd like to share?


Fuck the Immams. This entire fiasco was a set up deal.

Obviously.

Is an airline required to sell to anyone that has money or do they reserve the right to refuse service? If the latter is true, there is no basis for a lawsuit.

Is an airline required to sell to anyone that has money or do they reserve the right to refuse service? If the latter is true, there is no basis for a lawsuit.

Rightfully or not the Imams are claiming they were discriminated against based on their religion. That's plenty of basis for a lawsuit.

Rightfully or not the Imams are claiming they were discriminated against based on their religion. That's plenty of basis for a lawsuit.

A publicity stunt with the proceeds from a lawsuit being laundered and used to fund terrorists.

A publicity stunt with the proceeds from a lawsuit being laundered and used to fund terrorists.

Naturally. They're muslims after all.

Other muslims who were interviewed after this incident said that the things they were doing, loudly, were totally unnecessary to be doing in public. They set up this situation intentionally for the negative publicity. I don't know if their intention was the lawsuit money or not, but the results were what they intended.

You call me a troll just because I can hold my own with you.

You don't like being proven wrong, so you just call me a troll.

I admit I like to add a little color to my posts, but that does not make me a

troll. Thanx for playin!



This is why you will always be nothing but a Troll, sisko.

As far as I understand: They deserved to be kicked off for what they did.


Rightfully or not the Imams are claiming they were discriminated against based on their religion. That's plenty of basis for a lawsuit.

You call me a troll just because I can hold my own with you.

If it makes you feel better to believe that, dispite all the facts to the contrary, then there is no helping you, Troll.

One of the good things about our western culture is the fact you can bitch,sue and protest, if this happened in an Islamic state youd be fucked, big time.

One of the good things about our western culture is the fact you can bitch,sue and protest, if this happened in an Islamic state youd be fucked, big time.

Not that bitching or protesting will ever change anything.

You just get herded into a barb-wired "free speech zone" away from those you are protesting.

Saddam is dead, Einstein.

:rolleyes:

So is Einstein, Brainiac. :lolhit:

Thats true,Ive been in them before.

So is Einstein, Brainiac.

Brainiac is a cartoon character, Dumbass. :lolhit:

Thats true,Ive been in them before.

Me too. I don't think they are what the framers had in mind when they gave us the right to free speech.

Hmm, I dont think the boys who signed the US Constitution had an Empire in mind when they signed it either, but there ya go....

Hmm, I dont think the boys who signed the US Constitution had an Empire in mind when they signed it either, but there ya go....

True, true...

I know that some of them feared the rise of the political parties we have today. They thought it would just polarize us. Go figure.

Rightfully or not the Imams are claiming they were discriminated against based on their religion. That's plenty of basis for a lawsuit.

I've read what the Imams did, they weren't in their assigned seats, they were chanting Muslim prayers, they went and stationed themselves at the doors of the airliners, and they knew damn good and well that their activities would make people nervous. They don't have the right to try and upset passengers by doing those activities. Free speech doesn't give people in crowded theaters the right to start screaming "fire" and cause a panic and those Muslims do not have the right to act disruptive if they wish to board an airliner.

If, as you say, there is plenty of reason for those imams to claim they were discriminated against, then there is plenty of reasons for people to not wish to travel with arabs who start acting strange. After all, they are the only religious group out there that has began hijacking aircraft as a hobby, dammit.

T.W.A.= Travel With Arabs

D.E.L.T.A.= Don't Even Let Them Aboard

Dammit.

The last one was Aboard,
Thats pretty good, Dammit.

Is an airline required to sell to anyone that has money or do they reserve the right to refuse service? If the latter is true, there is no basis for a lawsuit.By law, they can't refuse a person service because of things like race, gender, religion, national origin, etc. So the question is if they were removed for their behavior, or for their race and religion. One is legal while the other is not.

T.W.A.= Travel With Arabs

D.E.L.T.A.= Don't Even Let Them AboardYeah, they prefer riding on camels anyway. :rolleyes:

This was a knee jerk reaction by the airline, probably because they were muslim,that said, this is how they started all they're shit in Europe, everytime they dont get they're way they have street protests, yet when someone speaks out against them they're put under Death sentence for anti Islamic outbursts, Im coming to the conclusion they use western freedom of speech to advance they're Islamic views.

Brainiac is a cartoon character, Dumbass. :lolhit:
Warning! Warning! Danger Will Robi--err...allforums. Your collective IQ has been lowered 30 points since dharma arrived.

I've read what the Imams did, they weren't in their assigned seats, they were chanting Muslim prayers, they went and stationed themselves at the doors of the airliners, and they knew damn good and well that their activities would make people nervous. They don't have the right to try and upset passengers by doing those activities. Free speech doesn't give people in crowded theaters the right to start screaming "fire" and cause a panic and those Muslims do not have the right to act disruptive if they wish to board an airliner.

Obviously they're guilty since you read that they were.


If, as you say, there is plenty of reason for those imams to claim they were discriminated against, then there is plenty of reasons for people to not wish to travel with arabs who start acting strange.

Alas Darth, that's not what I said. I said that they are claiming they were discriminated against, and that's reason enough for a lawsuit. Unlike you, I made no statements at all as to their guilt.


After all, they are the only religious group out there that has began hijacking aircraft as a hobby, dammit.

Of course. A hobby.


T.W.A.= Travel With Arabs

D.E.L.T.A.= Don't Even Let Them Aboard

Dammit.

And people wonder why so many in the world are disturbed by American attitudes.

You do understand that if they get some liberal judge; (a judge who thinks like many of those who post here)

If they can actually win this stupid law suit, it will probably make air fare go up for smart people like Vile and Freethinkless and Sisko and Frogger and Darth and all the other cool people on here.

I just thought I'd think one or two steps ahead. (as many liberals can't seem to do)


Obviously they're guilty since you read that they were.



Alas Darth, that's not what I said. I said that they are claiming they were discriminated against, and that's reason enough for a lawsuit. Unlike you, I made no statements at all as to their guilt.



Of course. A hobby.



And people wonder why so many in the world are disturbed by American attitudes.

You do understand that if they get some liberal judge; (a judge who thinks like many of those who post here)

If the case makes it to trial, which is highly unlikely, it will probably be heard by a jury.


If they can actually win this stupid law suit, it will probably make air fare go up for smart people like Vile and Freethinkless and Sisko and Frogger and Darth and all the other cool people on here.

I just thought I'd think one or two steps ahead. (as many liberals can't seem to do)

If they win the lawsuit it will be because they were able to prove their case in court. Are you suggesting that we should decide the case based on your fear of rising air fares?

The faith campaign, as you call it, is not an indication that Iraq had an Islamic government.


The faith campaign is NOT what I called it, but what Saddam called it. He followed it with large government expenditures on training his party members in Islam and building universities and mosques, putting his image shown praying all over town in huge murals, ...please!!!!! How does this not equal a state sponsored religion?????

...and since when was Christmas a religious holiday any longer? As long as it is accompanied by greetings of "Happy Holidays" and Menoras, and Kwanzaa and banning of little manger scenes from "public" properety, it fails to meet the standard of a religious holiday.

Actually I'm saying it should not go to court because it's dumb. It will just cost the tax payer money in more ways than one. (I know you are for big government and tax and spend)

If the case makes it to trial, which is highly unlikely, it will probably be heard by a jury.



If they win the lawsuit it will be because they were able to prove their case in court. Are you suggesting that we should decide the case based on your fear of rising air fares?

Brainiac is a cartoon character, Dumbass. :lolhit:

No shit, Sherlock. It's also a term of derision used when talking to someone who makes a dumb, dumb statement. You know, a statement telling someone the person he referred to is dead and calling that poster by another dead person's name.:lolhit: :lolhit: :lolhit: :lolhit:

The faith campaign is NOT what I called it, but what Saddam called it. He followed it with large government expenditures on training his party members in Islam and building universities and mosques, putting his image shown praying all over town in huge murals, ...please!!!!! How does this not equal a state sponsored religion?????

Thats easy. State sponsorship of religion is a far cry from having an Islamic Government based upon Shiara Law, like Saudi Arabia or the Taliban. Women could drive, get an education and hold down jobs in Iraq under Saddam. For that, he was shunned by Islamics for years. Saddam was making an effort at the end to try to win those people back over because he rightfully feared an Islamic uprising by people like Muqtada Al Sadr.


...and since when was Christmas a religious holiday any longer?

So long as Christians constitute 80% of Americans. When they officially change the name to "x-mas" then you can whine about it.


As long as it is accompanied by greetings of "Happy Holidays" and Menoras, and Kwanzaa and banning of little manger scenes from "public" properety, it fails to meet the standard of a religious holiday.

Whats the deal with putting quotes around "public"? You don't like the idea of Public Property? Or you don't like the idea that Constitution doesn't give the majority total freedom to dominate everyone else in all areas?

So, as long as people don't celebrate the same exact holiday you do, in the same exact way, that holiday doesn't exist.

Thats just silly.

telling someone the person he referred to is dead and calling that poster by another dead person's name.

Obviously you are too stupid to grasp Irony.

:lolhit:

If the Imams were thrown off the plane because they prayed aloud or made anti-American comments then yes, that is discrimination. But requesting seat belt extenders (when none of them are fat) and not taking their assigned seats are behaviors no prudent flight crew can afford to ignore. I think it's very likely the Imams were testing the limits of what they could get away with and stepped over the line. If so, they should lose their case and be counter-sued in return.

Actually I'm saying it should not go to court because it's dumb.

And you are comfortable making this decision based on reading an article or two, or watching a news show?


It will just cost the tax payer money in more ways than one.

Yes it will. That's one of the costs associated with living in a free country with a justice system that presumes innocence.


(I know you are for big government and tax and spend)

You know nothing about me, and the fact that you would make this statement says more about you than it does about me.

Vile: I am sorry about my last post in this thread, sometimes I get a little carried away.

I am comfortable making this decision based on the witneses and the evidence already laid out.

If it needs to go to court, then fine. However we need to punnish them if they lose. They should have to pay all court costs and then a big fine.


And you are comfortable making this decision based on reading an article or two, or watching a news show?



Yes it will. That's one of the costs associated with living in a free country with a justice system that presumes innocence.



You know nothing about me, and the fact that you would make this statement says more about you than it does about me.

Vile's stuff.....

Obviously they're guilty since you read that they were.

I don't think that every single incident has to go to court to prove whether or not someone engaged in a particular activity, dammit.

Alas Darth, that's not what I said. I said that they are claiming they were discriminated against, and that's reason enough for a lawsuit. Unlike you, I made no statements at all as to their guilt.

Well, this incident hasn't gone to court, yet. What I was trying to say is that people cannot act in a provocative manner and not expect others to be nervous about it.

Of course. A hobby.

Well gee, if I wrote in a dry manner all the time, my posts would be boring. What do you expect?

And people wonder why so many in the world are disturbed by American attitudes.

But you do have to admit that there are valid reasons for people to be somewhat agitated when Muslims start acting strangely on aircraft.

Dammit.

Vile's stuff.....

I don't think that every single incident has to go to court to prove whether or not someone engaged in a particular activity, dammit.

I don't think every single incident has to go to court, just those where the issue needs to be "proved".


Well, this incident hasn't gone to court, yet.

No it hasn't and I think it unlikely to get that far. If it's true that this a publicity stunt, I doubt court is where it will end up.


What I was trying to say is that people cannot act in a provocative manner and not expect others to be nervous about it.

A very reasonable statement.


But you do have to admit that there are valid reasons for people to be somewhat agitated when Muslims start acting strangely on aircraft.

Dammit.

I have no problem with that as long as they're behavior was at least minimally outrageous.

To be frank, if I were a muslim of middle eastern descent and I lived in this country there's no way you'd get me on a plane.

Vile: I am sorry about my last post in this thread, sometimes I get a little carried away.

No sweat.


I am comfortable making this decision based on the witneses and the evidence already laid out.

That's fine, but you've seen neither. All you've seen or heard is what someone else told you they heard or saw at best.


If it needs to go to court, then fine. However we need to punnish them if they lose. They should have to pay all court costs and then a big fine.

Fining someone for filing a lawsuit I think is a bit harsh, but they may very well be responsible for court costs and attorneys fees for both sides if they lose bad enough.

After all, they (Muslims) are the only religious group out there that has began hijacking aircraft as a hobby,

It should be noted however that they are NOT the only *religious group* who has plotted and carried out terrorist acts on American soil. One that I remember took the lives of 168 Americans.

_______________________

Right now as you read this, there are ignorant, intolerant Muslims teaching other ignorant Muslims how to put on a suicide belt. There are orthodox Jews telling other Jews how they must never leave their “holy land” no matter what the consequences are to other human beings. And there are maniacal "Christians" who are praying for the end of time.....and hoping that most of the world’s population is wiped off the face of the Earth by their vengeful and murderous God.

It should be noted however that they are NOT the only *religious group* who has plotted and carried out terrorist acts on American soil. One that I remember took the lives of 168 Americans.

You're referring to the bombing in Oklahoma City by Mc Veigh. Yes, that was done by an American, and not in the name of religion.

What other religious group has made a hobby of terrorist activities since the late 1970's - other than the Muslims?

Right now as you read this, there are ignorant, intolerant Muslims teaching other ignorant Muslims how to put on a suicide belt.

True

There are orthodox Jews telling other Jews how they must never leave their “holy land” no matter what the consequences are to other human beings.

So the Indians should have just stepped off of their land because of the "consequences to other human beings"?

And there are maniacal "Christians" who are praying for the end of time.....and hoping that most of the world’s population is wiped off the face of the Earth by their vengeful and murderous God.

If you are going to talk about christianity, at least be educated on the subject. I can guarantee that probably 1% of christians are "praying for the end of time"... christians know its coming, and are struggling with their relationship with God in order to be ready when that time comes.. is there a problem with that?

Yes, that was done by an American, and not in the name of religion.

In the book American Terrorist, based on a series of interviews with McVeigh, they talk about his obsession with a book, The Turner Diaries, which depicts a revolution by White Christian Terrorists where they blow up a federal building and ethniclly cleanse America of Blacks, Jews, Hispanics, Asians and Muslims.


What other religious group has made a hobby of terrorist activities since the late 1970's - other than the Muslims?

The Catholic IRA made a pretty good run in Ireland.

1. ....McVeigh, they talk about his obsession with a book, The Turner Diaries,
2. The Catholic IRA made a pretty good run in Ireland.1. And the Unabomber had a copy of Al Gore's "Earth in Balance" in his cabin. What's your point?

2. The group of animals called the IRA happened to be Catholic but none of their activities were in the name of Catholicism.
Do you get the distinction?

The Catholic IRA made a pretty good run in Ireland.As well as the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, though their agenda isn't religious in nature.

I'm sorry if I'm digressing here, but even if this was unquestionably a case of discrimination, I suspect you would still see people saying it was justified and being dismissive of it. Some people would never side with the Muslim, ever.

In the light of behaviors claimed by Muslims over the past 30 years, this situation does not fit the intent, but may meet the "letter of the" law. By their lack of ongoing condemnation of activities preformed in the name of their religion, they should not expect anyone to side with them. The Muslims need to be seen as cleaning up their own backyards, along the same lines as the Catholics have done with their problematic preachers. Perhaps then, public opinion would begin to sway toward their plight. Demonstrations such as the ones discussed here do nothing to endear the Muslims to thier adopted country, even if they are all native born citizens.

Let them pay all costs involved, and they should be fined for wasting everyones time. Come on can't you see how dumb this is?




Fining someone for filing a lawsuit I think is a bit harsh, but they may very well be responsible for court costs and attorneys fees for both sides if they lose bad enough.

FT: According to the Bible most of the killing will be done by Satan.
Seccond, if God created the Earth and Humans, he can do what he pleases.
(although He is a God of love)

Third, I would call myself a Chrisitan, and I do not pray for the end of time.

Originally Posted by Freethinker
And there are maniacal "Christians" who are praying for the end of time.....and hoping that most of the world’s population is wiped off the face of the Earth by their vengeful and murderous God.