Time to stir up this board:

1. Ronald Reagan
2. John Adams
3. Abraham Lincoln
4. Harry Truman
5. Theodore Roosevelt
6. James Monroe
7. Dwight Eisenhower
8. George Bush Sr.
9. James Madison
10. Calvin Coolidge

Calvin Coolidge not just once but twice????

Heh, he didn't DO a dang thing--is this a requirement for a good president?

Where is Washington?
He set the standard--I say, if you cannot be like him, or even try, then don't aspire to this high office.

I aslo disagree about Bush Sr--should be Monroe.

Truman--it is to laugh--read his book--all he does is slam Eisenhower--ah, jealousy.

edit--I see you already have Monroe.
all right, Nixon.
The communists feared him--good.

Let me join the copy & paste crowd here. I find it too difficult to reinvent the wheel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_U.S._Presidents

LOL, gotta luv it though... even Wikipedia can't reach a consensus on this question!

**************

Presidents by average scholar rank
The neutrality of this section is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.

washington
lincoln
reagan
clinton

Calvin Coolidge not just once but twice????

Heh, he didn't DO a dang thing--is this a requirement for a good president?

Where is Washington?
He set the standard--I say, if you cannot be like him, or even try, then don't aspire to this high office.

I also disagree about Bush Sr--should be Monroe.

Truman--it is to laugh--read his book--all he does is slam Eisenhower--ah, jealousy.

edit--I see you already have Monroe.
all right, Nixon.
The communists feared him--good.

Coolidge should be number 10. Dwight Eisenhower was supposed to be number seven. Thanks for catching that.

Coolidge presided over a period of to then unparalleled prosperity and recovered the nation from the Harding disaster. The depression was avoidable and would have been if Hoover had listened to Coolidge.

Truman is there because he had the gumption to stand up to Stalin and built a coalition around it--at a time when the nation was tired of war. He also framed the West's containment of Russia cold war policy that ended up successful under Reagan.

Washington's greatness comes from the Revolutionary War, not from his Presidency, which, with its warring camps (Hamilton and Jefferson) effectively achieved nothing. Only in Adams' one term was the structure of a strong future nation really established.

Bush Sr. is there again because of gumption and the ability to build an international consensus regarding Kuwait, among several other things.

3. Abraham Lincoln
Only 3? What is this blasphemy.

1. FDR
2. Lincoln
3. Jefferson
4. Wilson
5. Washington
6. Eisenhower
7. JFK
8. Cleveland

Only presidents that I would deem "great".

1) Washington (Denzel)
2 Bill Pullman
3 Harrison Ford
4 Gina davis
5 Washington (george)

1) Washington (Denzel)
2 Bill Pullman
3 Harrison Ford
4 Gina davis
5 Washington (george)

Yeah, Gina Davis did make a good "Madame President." Is that show still on? I remember watching a few episodes before I shipped out. But the be honest I think Martin Sheen makes for a good president in The West Wing.

But in all seriousness, how did Washington not make the original list?

Truman was a short little midget.
I don't trust dwarfs like that..he was just jealous of ike because Ike was

a. a war hero
b. popular
c. taller.

Glad to see Teddy Roosevelt on the list. He was dashing and cool--we need guys like that in the Oval Office.

1. FDR
2. Lincoln
3. Jefferson
4. Wilson
5. Washington
6. Eisenhower
7. JFK
8. Cleveland

Only presidents that I would deem "great".
A few comments on your choices:

FDR was, in my opinion, one of the worst Presidents in history. He followed Hoover's policies while calling them his own, especially the one of sustaining a balanced budget and increasing wasteful government spending (in the guise of creating jobs, but they were not real jobs and prevented the labor market from adjusting normally). You should not run a balanced budget during economic downturns--this has been known since Keynes. In fact now it is coming to be understood that even during prosperity, a slight federal deficit is desirable since it gives people a very safe place to store wealth. They are much better than a shrinking economy. He even maintained Hoover's stupid protectionism (something even Hoover admitted had been a mistake).

Panics of the sort that began the depression usually lead to a year or two of recession. The Hoover-FDR policies made it much worse and much longer (with FDR's stupid policies, it would have gone on forever except for the war). FDR's management of the war was reasonably competent, but I think that was because he followed Churchill. If he had only done the same in his relationship with Stalin I think Eastern Europe would not have had to go through the decades of totalitarianism it did. No, FDR was an ambitious, rather dumb rich boy who had nothing but ambition.

How anyone could put Wilson on the list, after the idiocy at the Paris Peace Conference when he imposed a League that he knew America would not join and was unworkable anyway. He set America off onto an isolationist binge with his air-head liberalism--there is nothing wrong with liberals or conservatives, except when it becomes rigid ideology. This in turn made WWII inevitable (although Wilson is not entirely to blame, his blindness to reality played a major part).

Just because someone was President in wartime does not make them great.

Jefferson is a touchy figure. I look at his Presidency and see him trying to undo the work Adams achieved; fortunately his efforts were only temporarily successful, and his immediate successors (Madison and Monroe) reversed him. I think Jefferson is so admired in history because of his eloquence, not because of any achievements.

1. FDR
2. Lincoln
3. Jefferson
4. Wilson
5. Washington
6. Eisenhower
7. JFK
8. Cleveland

Only presidents that I would deem "great".

I see you put Cleveland on your list. I thought a long time about him, because he was a good President. Are you aware he "broke" the railroad union with military force? I would think a liberal like yourself might not approve of his overall anti-union, "sound money" policies (especially refusal to adopt a silver standard in spite of the fact that this was standard Democratic Party doctrine at the time).

I think maybe you see that he was the only Democrat to be President between Buchanan and Wilson, and so automatically put him on your list without understanding he was not a typical easy money Democrat.

JFK is a knee-jerk member of your list. He, like FDR, was an ambitious politician; unlike FDR he was a good deal smarter. The thing is, for the life of me, I cannot think of anything "great" he did except get assassinated. His program, even the excellent civil rights part, was not going to get anywhere with Congress. It took the shock of the assassination and Johnson's political skill and Washington inside dirt knowledge to get it going. That, in turn (the economic parts) set off a couple decades of harmful inflation).

Truman was a short little midget.
I don't trust dwarfs like that..he was just jealous of ike because Ike was

a. a war hero
b. popular
c. taller.

Glad to see Teddy Roosevelt on the list. He was dashing and cool--we need guys like that in the Oval Office.

You seem to dislike Truman because he didn't like Eisenhower. That has nothing to do with his Presidency.

1. George Washington - C'mon do I have to really explain why.
2. Abraham Lincoln - Again a no brainer.
3. Thomas Jefferson - He had his faults, but he did more than most to set the mold for what this country would become
4. Theodore Roosevelt - The man had balls of brass. The country was better off for it.
5. FDR - I may not be a fan of what a lot of programs attributed to FDR have become. Laying the foundation for a welfare state that America is nowadays. I do give him props for being the leader needed at the right time.
5. Ronald Reagan - Like it or not, he was exactly what this country needed at the time.
6. James Madison - The Fereralist Papers. Nuff' said.
7. Dwight Eisenhower -I always believed him to be a president of integrity and honor. I especially liked his record of maintaining the policy of integration at a time when it could have easily been dropped.
8. John Quincy Adams - I've always felt his was misjudged. I think he could've accomplished great things if given the chance.
9. Woodrow Wilson -He had a humility that most politicians need badly today. Again the right man at the right time.
10. ??????????

I hate to say this, but I can't make up my mind on a tenth choice. None of the rest of the twentieth century presidents seem worthy. Before that I'm just not as familiar with the others as I should be.

1. George Washington - C'mon do I have to really explain why.
2. Abraham Lincoln - Again a no brainer.
3. Thomas Jefferson - He had his faults, but he did more than most to set the mold for what this country would become
4. Theodore Roosevelt - The man had balls of brass. The country was better off for it.
5. FDR - I may not be a fan of what a lot of programs attributed to FDR have become. Laying the foundation for a welfare state that America is nowadays. I do give him props for being the leader needed at the right time.
5. Ronald Reagan - Like it or not, he was exactly what this country needed at the time.
6. James Madison - The Federalist Papers. Nuff' said.
7. Dwight Eisenhower -I always believed him to be a president of integrity and honor. I especially liked his record of maintaining the policy of integration at a time when it could have easily been dropped.
8. John Quincy Adams - I've always felt his was misjudged. I think he could've accomplished great things if given the chance.
9. Woodrow Wilson -He had a humility that most politicians need badly today. Again the right man at the right time.
10. ??????????
I hate to say this, but I can't make up my mind on a tenth choice. None of the rest of the twentieth century presidents seem worthy. Before that I'm just not as familiar with the others as I should be.

John Quincy Adams didn't really achieve anything; maybe it was unfairness, maybe it was aristocratic, arrogant stubbornness, but I don't see where he belongs.

I already explained my reasons for leaving Jefferson and Washington off, although I can see why others would disagree. I think FDR does not belong and I would like to see you defend him--I already posted my objections.

Where do you get the idea Wilson was humble and what has humility to do with a presidency anyway? His arrogant stubbornness had a lot to do with the disaster at the Paris Peace Conference. There is a tendency to say wartime presidents were "great" when in fact they only play a larger role in history because of the war. Look beyond that.

While I agree Madison was a great president, the Federalist Papers are not part of his presidency. I also agree Theodore Roosevelt was a great president, but because of his conservationism and anti-trust measures, not because of his testicles.

For your tenth choice, let me re-recommend the man who is tenth on my list--Calvin Coolidge. His policies brought significant economic improvement and he healed the country after Harding. If only Hoover had not signed the Smoot-Hawley tariff and had had the same economic sense Coolidge had, the depression could have been prevented.

The thing is, for the life of me, I cannot think of anything "great" he did except get assassinated.
You did not outline a definition of greatness in the opening post of the thread. Who said that the label of "greatest" was determined by accomplishments of policy?

You did not outline a definition of greatness in the opening post of the thread. Who said that the label of "greatest" was determined by accomplishments of policy?

Are you serious or just jerking me around?

Are you serious or just jerking me around?
Irrelevant. I'd like to see an answer to my question.

Irrelevant. I'd like to see an answer to my question.

I would argue that the only meaningful greatness of a President derives from what he accomplished as President, although some of those accomplishments may mature much later.

Are you by any chance a lawyer?

I would argue that the only meaningful greatness of a President derives from what he accomplished as President, although some of those accomplishments may mature much later.

Are you by any chance a lawyer?
Thanks for providing your definition. I was just questioning everyone's reasoning. If someone said, "Accomplishments of ideas can be powerful just as the accomplishments of action," the lists on the thread may be altered. Different perspectives usually bring thought to a conversation.

1) Washington (Denzel)
2 Bill Pullman
3 Harrison Ford
4 Gina davis
5 Washington (george)

Where's David Palmer?

That's Dennis Haysbert.

I keep telling everyone that Barack Obama is the next David Palmer!

Really? I got drunk the other night and kept telling people that Obama is the next Haysbert. Sadly, I slurred my speech and now Osama and Hastert are after me with their cronies.

Eeek.

1. Bill Clinton
2. Bill Clinton
3. Bill Clinton
4. Bill Clinton
5. Bill Clinton
6. Bill Clinton
7. Bill Clinton
8. Bill Clinton
9. Bill Clinton
10. Bill Clinton

Cause Clinton fucking ruled!!!!

No, Clinton splooged.
(All over Monika's sized 10 blue dress.)

Splooged, ruled.
There's a subtle distinction there, I think.

She didn't look that skinny in the pics to me. Did she gain weight during the trial?

It depends on what criteria you are using.

Washington was great because he defined what the presidency would be. It would be executive and not regal.

Lincoln belongs on the list because of the Civil War but he loses points because of his suspension of Habeus Corpus.

Eisenhower was the restful president we needed after the hectic days of FDR and Truman.

Nixon achieved reapprochement with Communist China.

Reagan was an avuncular figure much like Eisenhower and was the impetus for the breakup of the Soviet Union.

Theodore Roosevelt redefined the presidency and made it more activist. He also created the national park system. He was the first of the great trust busters.

Thanks for providing your definition. I was just questioning everyone's reasoning. If someone said, "Accomplishments of ideas can be powerful just as the accomplishments of action," the lists on the thread may be altered. Different perspectives usually bring thought to a conversation.

Beyond question accomplishments of ideas make for greatness as a person, but greatness of a President implies achievement.

For example, Jefferson had great ideas, and his eloquence gave him great influence, both then and now (although he has been idolized way too much as a person and many of his ideas were subversive to any nation). It is a good thing he was not in the country when the Constitution was being written.

When I look at his Presidency, however, except for the Louisiana Purchase (a brilliant stroke the way it was handled, but all Jefferson did was accept the final outcome), every thing he did set the country back rather than forward. At least that is my impression.

In other words Jefferson was unquestionably a great man, but not a great President.

It depends on what criteria you are using.

Washington was great because he defined what the presidency would be. It would be executive and not regal.

Washington as Cincinnatus. I look at the way the Executive was crippled by the Jefferson-Hamilton war and that Washington tolerated this, complaining but not acting, and I wonder. However, this is debatable. What you say does keep Washington up toward the top, but I think there are at least ten who were greater.

Lincoln belongs on the list because of the Civil War but he loses points because of his suspension of Habeas Corpus.

I think the opposite. His suspension of Habeas corpus was essential to save the Union. Lawyers will always prevent such things, in the name of some principle, while the nation goes down the drain.

Eisenhower was the restful president we needed after the hectic days of FDR and Truman.

I would say the Eisenhower was a singularly successful President. The nation enjoyed prosperity without serious inflation, America stopped the expansion of Communism (except for Cuba), the foundations for modern Europe were built, and the President came down squarely against both McCarthyism and racial segregation (Little Rock).

Nixon achieved rapprochement with Communist China.

This is out weighted by the harm he did to his office and to the nation.

Reagan was an avuncular figure much like Eisenhower and was the impetus for the breakup of the Soviet Union.

There is nothing about Reagan that I don't admire; his principles, his political skill, his communicating ability, his achievements.

Theodore Roosevelt redefined the presidency and made it more activist. He also created the national park system. He was the first of the great trust busters.

Well we agree on this one.

--Martin

She didn't look that skinny in the pics to me. Did she gain weight during the trial?

she probably WAS kinda skinny, but i guess every load a guy sprays out into a girls mouth is around 300 calories.. so obviously she swallowed, and probably a few times a day

:lolhit:

She didn't look that skinny in the pics to me. Did she gain weight during the trial?
A size 10 is not thin. A size ten is 5'7" 165 pounds, more or less. I know because my step-mom is a size ten. For comparison, I'm 5'6" and 110 pounds, and I wear a size 5. A supermodel, for even more comparison, is about 5'8" and 100 pounds, and wears a size 0.

she probably WAS kinda skinny, but i guess every load a guy sprays out into a girls mouth is around 300 calories.. so obviously she swallowed, and probably a few times a day

:lolhit:
It's nowhere near that many calories. More like 30, if memory serves...

It's nowhere near that many calories. More like 30, if memory serves...
Nope. Two. http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_054.html

Wow, the average ejaculation is only 1/7 of an egg white? Hard to believe. They usually seem bigger...

Not that I'd know. ;)

A few comments on your choices:

FDR was, in my opinion, one of the worst Presidents in history. He followed Hoover's policies while calling them his own, especially the one of sustaining a balanced budget and increasing wasteful government spending (in the guise of creating jobs, but they were not real jobs and prevented the labor market from adjusting normally). You should not run a balanced budget during economic downturns--this has been known since Keynes. In fact now it is coming to be understood that even during prosperity, a slight federal deficit is desirable since it gives people a very safe place to store wealth. They are much better than a shrinking economy. He even maintained Hoover's stupid protectionism (something even Hoover admitted had been a mistake).

Panics of the sort that began the depression usually lead to a year or two of recession. The Hoover-FDR policies made it much worse and much longer (with FDR's stupid policies, it would have gone on forever except for the war). FDR's management of the war was reasonably competent, but I think that was because he followed Churchill. If he had only done the same in his relationship with Stalin I think Eastern Europe would not have had to go through the decades of totalitarianism it did. No, FDR was an ambitious, rather dumb rich boy who had nothing but ambition.

I like FDR because:

1. Created the CCC which employed 250,000 young men.
2. Created the WPA which employed 8,500,000 people.
3. Signed into law the Social Security Act.
4. Economy quickly grew during his first term, and despite the early setback in the second term, it began to grow again before WW2 broke out.
5. A total of 18 million jobs were created during Roosevelt's presidency.

To call FDR "an ambitious, rather dumb rich boy" is partisan smearing. All presidents are ambitious, that's why they ran for the most powerful position in the United States.

How anyone could put Wilson on the list, after the idiocy at the Paris Peace Conference when he imposed a League that he knew America would not join and was unworkable anyway. He set America off onto an isolationist binge with his air-head liberalism--there is nothing wrong with liberals or conservatives, except when it becomes rigid ideology. This in turn made WWII inevitable (although Wilson is not entirely to blame, his blindness to reality played a major part).

I put Wilson on my list because I thought his 14 points were spot on. I don't see how you can blame Wilson for the fact that France and Britain didn't agree with his positions. Even putting partial blame on Wilson for WW2 is completely ridiculous, blame the French and the Belgians for demanding war reparations which made Germany extremely bitter.

Just because someone was President in wartime does not make them great.

True, and admittedly a large portion of the Presidents on my list were involved in some major conflict. The reason for this is because I believe they all handled the conflicts about as well as it could have been handled.

Jefferson is a touchy figure. I look at his Presidency and see him trying to undo the work Adams achieved; fortunately his efforts were only temporarily successful, and his immediate successors (Madison and Monroe) reversed him. I think Jefferson is so admired in history because of his eloquence, not because of any achievements.

Jefferson was an advocate of small government, state's rights, and seperation of chuch and state; all of which I strongly agree with.

I see you put Cleveland on your list. I thought a long time about him, because he was a good President. Are you aware he "broke" the railroad union with military force? I would think a liberal like yourself might not approve of his overall anti-union, "sound money" policies (especially refusal to adopt a silver standard in spite of the fact that this was standard Democratic Party doctrine at the time).

I think maybe you see that he was the only Democrat to be President between Buchanan and Wilson, and so automatically put him on your list without understanding he was not a typical easy money Democrat.

Heaven forbid, I put him on my list because I too thought he was a good president? If you have a problem with me putting Democrats on my list, I suggest you created a thread entitled: "Ten Greatest Republican Presidents".

JFK is a knee-jerk member of your list. He, like FDR, was an ambitious politician...

Again, partisan smearing. Feel free to point out all of the Presidents that did not have ambition.

...unlike FDR he was a good deal smarter. The thing is, for the life of me, I cannot think of anything "great" he did except get assassinated. His program, even the excellent civil rights part, was not going to get anywhere with Congress. It took the shock of the assassination and Johnson's political skill and Washington inside dirt knowledge to get it going. That, in turn (the economic parts) set off a couple decades of harmful inflation).

You don't think he handled the Cuban Missle Crisis well? Sorry, I think avoiding a nuclear war is a pretty nice accomplishment.

Jefferson was a good and smart man, but his presedency was an absolute disaster. Like, really really awful.

Wow, the average ejaculation is only 1/7 of an egg white? Hard to believe. They usually seem bigger...

Not that I'd know. ;)


1/7 of an egg white? Gimme a break lol.

Jefferson was a good and smart man, but his presedency was an absolute disaster. Like, really really awful.

What made it a disaster?

Jefferson was a good and smart man, but his presedency was an absolute disaster. Like, really really awful.

I think he did good job. He made the Louisiana Purchase didnt he? Thats big. He did lots of other stuff too, but Id have to look that stuff up.

My bad, I meant Adams, not Jefferson. Brain farts. Although, it was interesting to note Jefferson's opinions on Marbury v. Madison. He actually tried to overturn it. I wonder what the country would be like today if he did...

I like FDR because:

1. Created the CCC which employed 250,000 young men.
2. Created the WPA which employed 8,500,000 people.

<<It did not "employ" these people. What it did was take them out of the labor market, preventing the labor market from adjusting, and thereby extending the depression. This is "make work," and they aren't real jobs but just political patronage.>>

3. Signed into law the Social Security Act.

<<Yea, and America is still saddled with that, and it may bankrupt the country in the next generation, and will only get worse after that. This was shortsighted in the extreme. It could have been set up as a savings plan, but, no, Roosevelt was too eager to buy immediate popularity that he let the future hang.>>

4. Economy quickly grew during his first term, and despite the early setback in the second term, it began to grow again before WW2 broke out.

<<Nonsense. There are natural variations during a depression, but we would still be in depression if the War hadn't come on and then Truman and Eisenhower came to power.>>

5. A total of 18 million jobs were created during Roosevelt's presidency.

<<Make work, not jobs. A real job is one that creates a slot in the labor force where the salary paid is earned by the value of the work done. Government jobs of the sort he created did some good, but private employment would have done them anyway. >>

To call FDR "an ambitious, rather dumb rich boy" is partisan smearing.

<<I merely state what he was. It is true all politicians are ambitious, but no one until him tried to overcome Washington's wise example of just two terms. His unwillingness to leave office appropriately forced a Constitutional Amendment to require only two terms. This should never have been necessary.>>

I put Wilson on my list because I thought his 14 points were spot on. I don't see how you can blame Wilson for the fact that France and Britain didn't agree with his positions. Even putting partial blame on Wilson for WW2 is completely ridiculous, blame the French and the Belgians for demanding war reparations which made Germany extremely bitter.

<<Wilson is far more to blame than the French or the British, and his policy was a complete fiasco. Airheaded idealism does not make for good foreign policy, and in his case merely permitted the French and English to go too far, since Wilson was innefectual, insisting on the perfect instead of the possilbe.>>

True, and admittedly a large portion of the Presidents on my list were involved in some major conflict. The reason for this is because I believe they all handled the conflicts about as well as it could have been handled.

<<What you say makes no sense. Wars should not be considered the mark of a great President. They may be understandable, but they always represent a certain failure.>>

Jefferson was an advocate of small government, state's rights, and separation of church and state; all of which I strongly agree with.

<<You believe in "small government and state's rights and you approve of FDR? Come on now--you are inventing arguments as you go. Also, what American President has not been in favor of separation of church and state? That hardly makes Jefferson noteworthy.>>


--Martin

Heaven forbid, I put him on my list because I too thought he was a good president? If you have a problem with me putting Democrats on my list, I suggest you created a thread entitled: "Ten Greatest Republican Presidents".

<<Truman was on my list, the remarkable combination of social liberal and economic conservative with a clear understanding of foreign affairs that makes for an ideal President. Eisenhower and Kennedy were like that too.>>

You don't think he handled the Cuban Missile Crisis well? Sorry, I think avoiding a nuclear war is a pretty nice accomplishment.

<<Coming within an inch of nuclear war is not an accomplishment.>>

--Martin

It did not "employ" these people. What it did was take them out of the labor market, preventing the labor market from adjusting, and thereby extending the depression. This is "make work," and they aren't real jobs but just political patronage.

You're going to have to explain this to me in more detail; I don't see how giving 8.5 million people work when they would otherwise be jobless is bad. The WPA also limited the work to a maximum of 30 hours a week; making it feasible to find other work as well.

Yea, and America is still saddled with that, and it may bankrupt the country in the next generation, and will only get worse after that. This was shortsighted in the extreme. It could have been set up as a savings plan, but, no, Roosevelt was too eager to buy immediate popularity that he let the future hang.

Should we blame Henry Ford for global warming? You cannot hold Roosevelt responsible for problems social security faced half a century later.

Nonsense. There are natural variations during a depression, but we would still be in depression if the War hadn't come on and then Truman and Eisenhower came to power.

Our economy declined every year Hoover was in power, and the economy improved when Roosevelt took over in 1933. And like I said, except for a small decline at the start of his second term, the economy improved every year before the war started. I wouldn't call this "natural variations".

You believe in "small government and state's rights and you approve of FDR? Come on now--you are inventing arguments as you go. Also, what American President has not been in favor of separation of church and state? That hardly makes Jefferson noteworthy.

I knew you were going to call me on this. During Roosevelt's entire presidency, I believe we needed big government. When he came to power, 26% of the population was unemployed. I don't think waiting around and waiting for the market to readjust is the right thing to do, you need to create jobs for these people; get them working again and making some money. Then, the war came, and again you need a larger government during a war of that scale.

Look, when Roosevelt took power, America was in one of our darkest times. When he died, we were the strongest country in the world. I can understand if you don't think he's one of the best presidents as he was big government; but calling him one of the worst presidents just reeks of partisanship to me. I certainly don't agree with your selection of Reagan as the best president ever, but I'm not silly enough to think he was one of our worst presidents.

Time to stir up this board:

1. Ronald Reagan If by stirring up you mean making an ass of yourself mission accomplished....Reagan...hehe

Greatest Presidents:

George Washington. First and the standard bearer.

Abraham Lincoln. For all the right reasons.

Theodore Roosevelt. He understood what America could become.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Marched the country out of the Depression and pointed toward eventual victory in WWII.

Harry Truman. Had the balls to end WWII with the most devistating weapons ever used.

Ronald Reagan. Took the country from the end of Camelot to the end of the Cold War.

If I"m lucky, I just might see another great POTUS before I leave this life.

Government make work is"I pretend to work and you pretend to pay me."

The work is not a real job. It is invented work, usually of a political nature and under the control (back then) of patronage bosses. It had no future and produced no gain to the economy anywhere near the drag to the economy involved from removing these people from the labor force.

The problem is that in depression wages must drop until the labor market clears. Roosevelt's intervention merely delayed that happening and hence extended the suffering much longer than normal economic forces would have required.

It is kinda like going around throwing bricks through people's windows in order to employ glassmakers. This kind of thing only serves to lower living standards.

The real thing about Roosevelt that I object to is his propaganda--he followed Hoover's Balanced Budget tight money policy right down the drain, but created an aura of activity designed to help him politically but that was ruinous to the economy. In a recession, you do not balance the budget--you run a deficit--and you do not keep money tight--you print it as fast as you can. Deflation is a much worse environment than inflation.

Regarding Social Security, the present situation was predicted, and was, in fact, inevitable. Roosevelt created a Ponzi scheme on a huge scale, and the system would have gone under long ago except for a constant increases in the FICA tax--a burden that now interferes with full employment and is non-progressive--in fact, regressive.

Greatest Presidents:

George Washington. First and the standard bearer.

Abraham Lincoln. For all the right reasons.

Theodore Roosevelt. He understood what America could become.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Marched the country out of the Depression and pointed toward eventual victory in WWII.

Harry Truman. Had the balls to end WWII with the most devistating weapons ever used.

Ronald Reagan. Took the country from the end of Camelot to the end of the Cold War.

If I"m lucky, I just might see another great POTUS before I leave this life.

That is a pretty good list. I would replace Washington with John Adams, who really did the work of starting the Federal Government (Washington really did very little as President).

As for Franklin Roosevelt and WWII, I really don't see where he did much. Eisenhower and Halsey and Churchill won the war. At that time he was a sick man and his sympathies with Communism lead (over Churchill's objections) to the division of Europe and the Cold War. Not that great a record.

As for Franklin Roosevelt and WWII, I really don't see where he did much. Eisenhower and Halsey and Churchill won the war. At that time he was a sick man and his sympathies with Communism lead (over Churchill's objections) to the division of Europe and the Cold War. Not that great a record.Funny how Reagan usually gets a lot of credit for 'delegating' while FDR gets none from you -- despite choosing men like Marshall, Eisenhower and Nimitz to lead the war effort. He gave big jobs to capable men and then got the hell out of their way. By contrast, Churchill's propensity to micro-manage was something of a handicap. And Halsey?? You have got to be kidding. His most noteworthy contribution to the war was getting sick before the Battle of Midway.

And Halsey?? You have got to be kidding. His most noteworthy contribution to the war was getting sick before the Battle of Midway.

You're right, and he was also TERRIBLE at tactics, blundering big time at Leyte Gulf by sending his battleships into a trap set by the Japanese, thus leaving the harbor unprotected and the guys without air cover.

The only thing left behind to defend were the "little boys"--baby flattops and destroyers. We would have been slaughtered if Admiral Kurita hadn''t inexplicably stopped his own battleships. (He later committed hari kari for his own blunder.) It was beyond his comprehension that even the lowliest sailor would make a blunder like that-- he thought he was sailing into a trap. Still the little boys sailed bravely out to meet the batleships, in the very highest tradition of US Navy bravery, and were blown out of the water.

Nimitz was furious---he sent out a frantic message--"All the world wants to know where are the fast battleships?"

John Paul Jones he was not. (Halsey)

(My dad was at this battle, serving on board a baby flattop.)

PS. FDR ws a great war time president. For that he gets my respect.