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dharmabum
03-08-2007, 07:18 PM
The Four Unspeakable Truths
What politicians won't admit about Iraq.

By Jacob Weisberg
Posted Wednesday, March 7, 2007, at 3:33 PM ET


When it comes to Iraq, there are two kinds of presidential candidates. The disciplined ones, like Hillary Clinton, carefully avoid acknowledging reality. The more candid, like John McCain and Barack Obama, sometimes blurt out the truth, but quickly apologize.

For many presidential aspirants, the first unspeakable truth is simply that the war was a mistake. This issue came to a head recently with Hillary Clinton's obstinate refusal to acknowledge that voting to give President Bush the authority to invade Iraq was the wrong thing to do. Though fellow Democrats John Edwards and Christopher Dodd have managed to say they erred in voting for the 2002 war resolution, Clinton is joined by Joe Biden and a full roster of Republicans in her inability to disgorge the M-word. Perhaps most absurdly, Chuck Hagel has called Bush's 21,500-troop "surge" the biggest blunder since Vietnam without ever saying that the war itself was the big blunder and that he favored it.

Reasons for refusing to admit that the war itself was a mistake are surprisingly similar across party lines. It is seldom easy to admit you were wrong—so let me repeat what I first acknowledged in Slate in January 2004, that I am sorry to have given even qualified support to the war. But what is awkward for columnists is nearly impossible for self-justifying politicians, who resist acknowledging error at a glandular level. Specific political calculations help to explain their individual decisions. Hillary, for instance, worries that confessing her failure will make it easier for hawks to savage her if she gets the nomination. But at bottom, the impulse is always the same. Politicians are stubborn, afraid of looking weak, and fearful that any admission of error will be cast as flip-flopping and inconsistency.

A second truth universally unacknowledged is that American soldiers being killed, grotesquely maimed, and then treated like whining freeloaders at Walter Reed Hospital are victims as much as "heroes." John Kerry was the first to violate this taboo when he was still a potential candidate last year. Kerry appeared to tell a group of California college students that it sucks to go and fight in Iraq. A variety of conservative goons instantly denounced Kerry for disrespecting the troops. An advanced sufferer of Senatorial Infallibility Syndrome, Kerry resisted retracting his comment for a while, but eventually regretted what he called a "botched joke" about President Bush.

Lost in the debate about whether Kerry meant what came out of his mouth was the fact that what he said was largely true. Americans who attend college and have good employment options after graduation are unlikely to sign up for free tours of the Sunni Triangle. People join the military for a variety of reasons, of course, but since the Iraq war turned ugly, the all-volunteer Army has been lowering educational standards, raising enlistment bonuses, and looking past criminal records. The lack of better choices is a larger and larger factor in the choice of military service. Our troops in Iraq may not see themselves as cannon fodder or victims of presidential misjudgments, but that doesn't mean they're not.

Reality No. 3, closely related to No. 2 and following directly from No. 1, is that the American lives lost in Iraq have been lives wasted. Barack Obama crossed this boundary on his first trip to Iowa as an announced candidate when he declared at a rally, "We ended up launching a war that should have never been authorized and should have never been waged and to which we have now spent $400 billion and have seen over 3,000 lives of the bravest young Americans wasted." With lightning speed, Obama said he had misspoken and apologized to military families.

John McCain used the same proscribed term when he announced his candidacy on Late Night With David Letterman last week. "We've wasted a lot of our most precious treasure, which is American lives." This was a strange admission, given McCain's advocacy of a surge bigger than Bush's. In any case, McCain followed Obama by promptly regretting his choice of words. (The patriotically correct term for losing parts of your body in a pointless war in Mesopotamia is, of course, "sacrifice.") These episodes all followed Kinsley's law of gaffes. The mistake Kerry, Obama, and McCain made was telling the truth before retreating to the approved banality and euphemism

A fourth and final near-certainty, which is in some ways the hardest for politicians to admit, is that America is losing or has already lost the Iraq war. The United States is the strongest nation in the history of the world and does not think of itself as coming in second in two-way contests. When it does so, it is slow to accept that it has been beaten. American political and military leaders were reluctant to acknowledge or utter that they had miscalculated and wasted tens of thousands of lives in Vietnam, many of them after failure and withdrawal were assured. Even today, American politicians tend not to describe Vietnam as a straightforward defeat. Something similar is happening in Iraq, where the most that leaders typically say is that we "risk" losing and must not do so.

Democrats avoid the truth about the tragedy in Iraq for fear of being labeled unpatriotic or unsupportive of the troops. Republicans avoid it for fear of being blamed for the disaster or losing defense and patriotism as cards to play against Democrats. Politicians on both sides believe that acknowledging the unpleasant truth will weaken them and undermine those still attempting to persevere on our behalf. But nations and individuals do not grow weaker by confronting the truth. They grow weaker by avoiding it and coming to believe their own evasions.

Jacob Weisberg is editor of Slate and co-author, with Robert E. Rubin, of In an Uncertain World.

dharmabum
03-12-2007, 03:51 PM
bump

paulc
03-12-2007, 05:05 PM
It seems to be a cardinal sin for a politician to say anything negative about Iraq:
UnAmerican.
UnPatriotic.
Not supporting our troops in a combat situation.
I mean, did someone die and make the Republican Propaganda Machine the new guardians of the United States.

dharmabum
03-12-2007, 05:07 PM
I mean, did someone die and make the Republican Propaganda Machine the new guardians of the United States.

Yes, the fairness doctrine was killed by Reagan back in the 80s. :)

Travh20
03-12-2007, 07:52 PM
It seems to be a cardinal sin for a politician to say anything negative about Iraq:
UnAmerican.
UnPatriotic.
Not supporting our troops in a combat situation.
I mean, did someone die and make the Republican Propaganda Machine the new guardians of the United States.

yet they tell us the American people want us out so bad. Why dont they pull us out then?

Freethinker
03-12-2007, 07:53 PM
Barack Obama crossed this boundary on his first trip to Iowa as an announced candidate when he declared at a rally, "We ended up launching a war that should have never been authorized and should have never been waged and to which we have now spent $400 billion and have seen over 3,000 lives of the bravest young Americans wasted." With lightning speed, Obama said he had misspoken and apologized to military families.

Of course he had to quickly backtrack and apologize.

If there's one thing certain to infuriate the dimwitted flag-waving electorate, it is a politician telling the unvarnished truth about the Iraq war and the imperialist agenda of those who fomented it.

Travh20
03-12-2007, 07:57 PM
what are all those polls then saying how much americans hate the war? right wing lies? When you put the two together they make no sense. On one hand politicians, whos only interest is doing whatever it takes to get re elected, stop short of pulling us out of Iraq even though poll after poll of Americans show no support for the war or Bush. something isnt right.

Freethinker
03-12-2007, 08:06 PM
what are all those polls then saying how much americans hate the war?

I don't know.

I haven't seen any poll like that.

paulc
03-13-2007, 01:19 AM
The Administration are using a little emotional blackmail here, and at this present time it would be impossable to withdraw from Iraq, Bush knows this, so whats he do,reduce US operations and allow the Iraqi to take over the policing role, not likely, he pushes for another fat cheque from Congress to try and see thru some sort of victory against 'the insurgents', you know those bad guys who were never anything to do with the 'war on terror'.

dharmabum
03-13-2007, 07:14 PM
something isnt right.

Yeah, Bush never should have started this war.
As many people have been saying all along.

WindWip
03-14-2007, 02:12 PM
America is losing or has already lost the Iraq war.

Just curious what constitutes 'winning' and 'losing' in this context?

smartmouthwoman
03-14-2007, 02:23 PM
Yeah, Bush never should have started this war.
As many people have been saying all along.
dharma, I posted this paragraph this morning on the Pro-American thread. Would you like to say what you think the U.S. should've done? Maybe you have a better solution than any of these?

"I often wonder what people (esp those Americans who now claim to disapprove of the war) would have preferred this country do after the Sept 11 attacks? Ignore it and hope it wouldn't happen again? Drop enough bombs to turn the middle east into a parking lot? Roll over and agree to drop to our knees and face mecca 8 times a day if they would just leave us alone??"

smartmouthwoman
03-14-2007, 02:41 PM
dharma, I posted this paragraph this morning on the Pro-American thread. Would you like to say what you think the U.S. should've done? Maybe you have a better solution than any of these?

"I often wonder what people (esp those Americans who now claim to disapprove of the war) would have preferred this country do after the Sept 11 attacks? Ignore it and hope it wouldn't happen again? Drop enough bombs to turn the middle east into a parking lot? Roll over and agree to drop to our knees and face mecca 8 times a day if they would just leave us alone??"
*dharma scampers around, looking for something to cut & paste*

Decka
03-14-2007, 03:01 PM
Afghanistan was the rebuttal to 9-11...

Iraq was a split in the river.. I've seen articles saying there were minor ties between Iraq and Al Queda, and i've seen articles saying the words should never be in the same sentence. After seeing so many articles, i guesstimate that Iraq and Saddam never HELPED Al Queda, but they didn't stop em from coming through either. Plus, they had a common enemy... us.

It's nice to see some guy write an article saying the war was a mistake, I personally think we have no way of knowing if it's a mistake yet... i think writers have been watching too much football. It's only the loud-mouthed contraversial wide receivers who get press, while the ones who tend to just do their job aren't even mentioned.

dharmabum
03-14-2007, 03:38 PM
Would you like to say what you think the U.S. should've done?


The list of what we could have done right if we hadn't been misled into Iraq is long indeed.
These are just a few examples:

Concentrated on Al Queda and radical Islam instead of getting bogged down in Iraq. Capitalized on the goodwill toward Americans in the wake of 9-11 by using diplomatic means instead of just Military. We should have taken up Iran on their offer to disband Hezbollah instead of declaring them "evil".
We should have used every diplomatic and political means, including the UN, to turn the tide of public opinion firmly against the radical Islamics worldwide. We should have pressured our "friends" in Saudi Arabia to push for cultural reforms and ostracize the extremists in their society.

And how about this idea? We should have emphasized our counter-nuclear proliferation efforts instead of sabotaging them by outting an entire global covert operation!

You may now scramble around for a coherent response.

dharmabum
03-14-2007, 03:42 PM
*dharma scampers around, looking for something to cut & paste*

I can if you would like. I least I have supporting evidence.

Thats more than you can say.

WindWip
03-14-2007, 03:59 PM
"I often wonder what people (esp those Americans who now claim to disapprove of the war) would have preferred this country do after the Sept 11 attacks?

I really, really, really hope you already knew this, but the war with Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

smartmouthwoman
03-15-2007, 08:59 AM
"We should have used every diplomatic and political means, including the UN, to turn the tide of public opinion firmly against the radical Islamics worldwide."

I believe that strategy had been tried since the first attack on Americans by terrorists in 1979... and by 2001 had been ruled useless.

* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
* Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001

As far as this suggestion goes, "We should have emphasized our counter-nuclear proliferation efforts instead of sabotaging them by outting an entire global covert operation!"

I have no earthly idea what that means. Democrat double speak, maybe?

smartmouthwoman
03-15-2007, 09:02 AM
I really, really, really hope you already knew this, but the war with Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
I really, really, really hope you know that if terrorists had been hdq'd in Russia, we would have been fighting on Russian soil instead of Iraqi soil.

The war on terrorism doesn't have anything to do with 9/11?

OK, if you say so, dear.

dharmabum
03-15-2007, 09:30 AM
I believe that strategy had been tried since the first attack on Americans by terrorists in 1979... and by 2001 had been ruled useless.

9-11 changed all that.

I have no earthly idea what that means.

And therein lies the root of your problem.

Your inability to grasp simple concepts and facts.

I can't help you with that. You will need professional help.

Leper
03-15-2007, 09:47 AM
I don't think you can say that the war has been a total waste of American lives. I mean, Sadaam Hussein is no longer dictator of Iraq, so that's at least one major good thing that's come out of the war. However, that goal was met in a Pyrrhic manner.

smartmouthwoman
03-15-2007, 09:51 AM
And therein lies the root of your problem.

Your inability to grasp simple concepts and facts.

I can't help you with that. You will need professional help.
__________________


Good cop out. When confronted for more information, attack your inquirer. You oughta run for Prez on the Democratic ticket. Or maybe start a new party -- YAKTIVIST. You know, people who sit around on a computer and complain all the time, but do nothing to try and change the situation?

dharmabum
03-15-2007, 09:52 AM
I don't think you can say that the war has been a total waste of American lives. I mean, Sadaam Hussein is no longer dictator of Iraq, so that's at least one major good thing that's come out of the war. However, that goal was met in a Pyrrhic manner.

It is the equivelent of burning your house down to get rid of a mouse.

"But look on the bright side, at least the mouse is gone!"

Travh20
03-15-2007, 09:52 AM
And therein lies the root of your problem.

Your inability to grasp simple concepts and facts.

I can't help you with that. You will need professional help.

I think the real problem is your misplaced sense of superiority over anyone who does not think like you do.

dharmabum
03-15-2007, 09:53 AM
You know, people who sit around on a computer and complain all the time, but do nothing to try and change the situation?

You must be the president of that club.

No thanks. I am too busy for that.

dharmabum
03-15-2007, 09:55 AM
I think the real problem is your misplaced sense of superiority over anyone who does not think like you do.

I don't feel superior. I just know when I am right.

Travh20
03-15-2007, 09:56 AM
lol, of course.

Decka
03-15-2007, 07:02 PM
See Trav? its like i've said all along.. these "thinking" radical libs are just too egotistical to let anything NOT out of their mouths be true...

talk about bias... i think its the most bias i've ever seen.

dharmabum
03-15-2007, 07:13 PM
Decka, you just cannot handle being wrong.