Why are so many atheists continually challenging Christians to "prove" their belief?
Are they somehow trying to save Christians from a fate worse than death? Or, are they trying to convince themselves that their own lack of faith is OK?

It is only human to try to make other people understand where your belief in something comes from, especially so if they disagree with you. From there it simply leads into who is right and who is wrong, so then atheists will work to disprove the religion in order to show that they are correct. I don't think it is a matter of converting people to atheism, but just rather to show that they are right.

I personally try and convince Fundies that they are wrong so they'll stop telling me I'm goin' to Hell.

What I find interesting is that atheists fight among themselves over who doesn't believe in God more!

Guess that would be called a 'double negative' huh?

:lolhit:

Does that mean that we all actually do believe in God?

Does that mean that we all actually do believe in God?
Nah, I think it means you don't actually believe in ANYTHING... not even yourselves.

:(

Plenty of atheists believe in themselves.

Nah, I think it means you don't actually believe in ANYTHING... not even yourselves.

:(
Bullshit.

Nah, I think it means you don't actually believe in ANYTHING... not even yourselves.

:(

lol, I just don't believe in God, how does that make me not believe in myself?

I'm not quite getting what you mean by believing in yourself actually. What is it to believe in yourself?

Nah, I think it means you don't actually believe in ANYTHING... not even yourselves.

:(
Personally, I believe athiests really exist. I see them behind every tree. :eek:

love the avatar Sorcerer

Why are so many atheists continually challenging Christians to "prove" their belief?
Are they somehow trying to save Christians from a fate worse than death? Or, are they trying to convince themselves that their own lack of faith is OK?


Maybe it's cause Christians are constantly directing self-righteous nonsense at us at our doorsteps, through the legal system, through legislature, through our schools, or through politics, and we feel the need to try to help them come to their senses so that they'll stop condemning Atheists.

Why are so many atheists continually challenging Christians to "prove" their belief?
Are they somehow trying to save Christians from a fate worse than death? Or, are they trying to convince themselves that their own lack of faith is OK?I am fascinated by life's big questions and by those who claim to have all the answers and are absolutely certain that they have them right. Christians are great company because they are always up for chatting about the meaning of it all.

What I find interesting is that atheists fight among themselves over who doesn't believe in God more!


And an example of that would be.............what?

Oh wait! I forgot.

Superstitionists aren't real big on providing 'examples'.

We are expected to take it on "faith".

______________________________

"The atheist, by merely being in touch with reality, appears shamefully out of touch with the fantasy life of his neighbors". ----Sam Harris

Why are so many atheists continually challenging Christians to "prove" their belief?
I don't think the proportion of atheists who are "continually challenging Christians" is large compared to the population of all atheists, but I can be wrong about that.

I am trying to imagine the situation where an atheist challenges a Christian to prove their belief, and the picture that comes up is that of the Christian just finished preaching. I have a hard time imagining an aheist just randomly goes up to their Christian friend and ask them to prove the correctness of their belief.

But I digress. In cases when the said situation does occur, I agree with Windwhip: when you and someone else have different opinion regarding the same issue, and it seems to be an either-or (ie. either there is no god or there is, one of you have got to be wrong) issue, then both people are likely to want to try to prove they are right.

If I were a Christian I would think it's silly, because I would tend to think that faith has nothing to do with proving. But I am not a Christian...

love the avatar Sorcerer
Thanks. I stole it. :D

I'm not quite getting what you mean by believing in yourself actually. What is it to believe in yourself?
Appears there are at least 13 threads on this forum alone dedicated to ridiculing Christians. If atheists are so secure in who they are, why do they feel it's necessary to discuss the matter to death?

I believe in God. You don't. End of discussion.

Appears there are at least 13 threads on this forum alone dedicated to ridiculing Christians. If atheists are so secure in who they are, why do they feel it's necessary to discuss the matter to death?

I believe in God. You don't. End of discussion.
Well, how many of those threads were started by FT?

Appears there are at least 13 threads on this forum alone dedicated to ridiculing Christians. If atheists are so secure in who they are, why do they feel it's necessary to discuss the matter to death?

I believe in God. You don't. End of discussion.
Oh and another thing... There are just as many militant Christians on the board as militant atheists. If all the Christians had that same attitude ("I believe in God. You don't. End of discussion."), those threads would never get as long as they do.

Oh and another thing... There are just as many militant Christians on the board as militant atheists. If all the Christians had that same attitude ("I believe in God. You don't. End of discussion."), those threads would never get as long as they do.
I think you're wrong about that, DF. I've yet to see ONE debate among Christians, but lots among atheists. That's not to say Christians never disagree with each other... but I haven't seen it here.

BTW, FT only started 3 of the current threads. And if you haven't noticed, non-believers greatly outnumber believers on allforums. Or at least they're much more vocal about their disbelief.

I think you're wrong about that, DF. I've yet to see ONE debate among Christians, but lots among atheists. That's not to say Christians never disagree with each other... but I haven't seen it here.

BTW, FT only started 3 of the current threads. And if you haven't noticed, non-believers greatly outnumber believers on allforums. Or at least they're much more vocal about their disbelief.
So, all those threads "dedicated to ridiculing Christians" were full of just atheists discussing among themselves about how stupid Christians are, or something? I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

Also, I don't think atheists outnumber theists here. They might outnumber Christians, but there are plenty of agnostics and deists (such as myself) here.

I think you're wrong about that, DF. I've yet to see ONE debate among Christians, but lots among atheists. That's not to say Christians never disagree with each other... but I haven't seen it here.
Maybe you should get out more? I visit several forums where Christians debate Christians (not always in a polite manner, either).
In any event, its usually the Christians who start the evolution vs creation debates, not the athiests. "Militant atheists" like Freethinker are a truly small minority.
BTW, FT only started 3 of the current threads. And if you haven't noticed, non-believers greatly outnumber believers on allforums. Or at least they're much more vocal about their disbelief.
No, I think there are actually more athiests here than elsewhere. I prefer being outnumbered by athiests, though. Being outnumbered by Fundies sucks.

Update: I created a poll! I hope everyone takes it so we can see who really outnumbers who...

"Militant atheists" like Freethinker are a truly small minority.
Very true. Most atheists (and I was one until about a week ago; ask me more about my conversion to agnosticism if you want) are of the "live and let live" persuasion. So are most Christians. Do militant Christians outnumber militant atheists by percentage? I'd guess so, mainly based on the fact that the Bible does encourage you to convert people. Are "fundies" the norm in any religion? No. That goes for Christianity, Judaism (don't see many fellows with huge beards running around anymore), Islam, atheism, agnosticism (a fundamentalist agnostic?)...Loonies are present in every group but fairly rare, just far more vocal.

Appears there are at least 13 threads on this forum alone dedicated to ridiculing Christians.
90% are posted by one person mind you. There very many that are not ridiculing in the least. They are very mindful discussions on the topic.

If atheists are so secure in who they are, why do they feel it's necessary to discuss the matter to death?
Being secure in who you are does not mean that you can't discuss an issue.

I believe in God. You don't. End of discussion.
If you don't want to discuss it, that's fine. You don't need to. There are plenty of people who want to discuss it though, so for those people we have a religion and philosophy thread.

Go take my poll!

No, I think there are actually more athiests here than elsewhere. I prefer being outnumbered by athiests, though. Being outnumbered by Fundies sucks.

Jaasus ain't that the truth. ::shivers::

If atheists are so secure in who they are, why do they feel it's necessary to discuss the matter to death?


Because this is a discussion forum?

Go take my poll!

I demand 10 dollars for my vote!

I demand 10 dollars for my vote!

Hold out for mor Wip...she seems anxious... :D

Believe in whatever you want.

It matters not to me one iota whether you turn into dust in your box, burn in Hell, float around in Purgatory, or kneel at the right hand of God Himself.

Whatever floats your boat.
I got mine.

If atheists are so secure in who they are, why do they feel it's necessary to discuss the matter to death?
I think most atheists who get on boards to beat up on Christians are mostly doing it to vent from being beaten up on by Christians all the other time. I do it simply because it's fun.

I believe in God. You don't. End of discussion.
That's good enough for you, but there are plenty of hard-line theists who come on to these boards to try to convert people to their faith. For every thread beating up on Christianity here, (this is actually a rarity, having this many) a there are two by textually challenged fundamentalists like janrich and XFRODOBAGGINSX saying, "Convert or burn in the fire of hell!" in sublimely trollish fashion.

These two groups usually just go back and forth at each other, and none of the more moderate members of each group get involved. Atheists tend on the whole to be better with their verbiage than these moronic fundies, so they can actually make a case for their cause better, drawing moderate Christians who haven't gotten accustomed to defending their faiths into the mix. They also tend to hang around longer. Which all leads to the illusion of tons of atheists beating up on poor widdle Christians.

sublimely trollish fashion
::cough::

At least XFRODOBAGGINSX learned how to use the 'copy' and 'paste' functions.

"For every thread beating up on Christianity here, (this is actually a rarity, having this many) a there are two by textually challenged fundamentalists like janrich and XFRODOBAGGINSX saying, "Convert or burn in the fire of hell!" in sublimely trollish fashion."

Thx for the explanation, Nap. Guess you just had to be here to witness the witnesses.

Appears there are at least 13 threads on this forum alone dedicated to ridiculing Christians.

:rolleyes: Riiiiight.

It appears that superstitionists are as abysmal at counting as they are at critical thinking.

If anyone here can name "at least 13 threads" on this forum that are **dedicated to ridiculing" Christians** I will donate $100 dollars to the church of your choice.

I don't know if you were here when frodo was around, but just google 'xfrodobagginsx banned' and look how many hits you get.

If anyone here can name "at least 13 threads" on this forum that are **dedicated to ridiculing" Christians** I will donate $100 dollars to the church of your choice.

That'd happen when hell freezes over - of course if there was a hell, then you'd be wrong on like 90% of your posts on religion anyways :)

Quote:
Appears there are at least 13 threads on this forum alone dedicated to ridiculing Christians.


Riiiiight.

It appears that superstitionists are as abysmal at counting as they are at critical thinking.

If anyone here can name "at least 13 threads" on this forum that are **dedicated to ridiculing" Christians** I will donate $100 dollars to the church of your choice.

I went back and counted again... yep, there are THIRTEEN. Just paypal me the C note and I'll put 10% in the offering plate on Sunday.... in your name.

Quote:
Appears there are at least 13 threads on this forum alone dedicated to ridiculing Christians.


Riiiiight.

It appears that superstitionists are as abysmal at counting as they are at critical thinking.

If anyone here can name "at least 13 threads" on this forum that are **dedicated to ridiculing" Christians** I will donate $100 dollars to the church of your choice.

I went back and counted again... yep, there are THIRTEEN. Just paypal me the C note and I'll put 10% in the offering plate on Sunday.... in your name.

Tell us which threads they are. Also, are these active threads or ALL threads in the entire history of Allforums that could be construed as insulting to Christians?

Nope, sorry... you'll just have to take my word for it. Or maybe they're invisible... like the fundamental Christians they're aimed at. You know the ones, who believe in an invisible God?

*backs slowly out of room*

SMW, have you seen my poll in the Religion/Philosophy forum yet? Have you voted? Religious theists are in the lead, and there are almost twice as many theists (religious or not) as atheists so far, with a good amount of agnostics/unsure.

SMW, have you seen my poll in the Religion/Philosophy forum yet? Have you voted? Religious theists are in the lead, and there are almost twice as many theists (religious or not) as atheists so far, with a good amount of agnostics/unsure.
I did see your poll, DF, but didn't vote. I couldn't figure out which button to push. But here's a good explanation for my indecision:

"... almost everyone is either an agnostic/atheist or they are an agnostic/theist because no one can 'know' god. Atheists probably don't have a problem with this definition, but I'd be willing to bet that many theists who are reading this don't appreciate being labeled an agnostic."

Like I told Nappy... I prefer to think of myself as a pedestrian. I do believe in God, but will be the first to admit, I don't know what he looks like.

SMW

I did see your poll, DF, but didn't vote. I couldn't figure out which button to push. But here's a good explanation for my indecision:

"... almost everyone is either an agnostic/atheist or they are an agnostic/theist because no one can 'know' god. Atheists probably don't have a problem with this definition, but I'd be willing to bet that many theists who are reading this don't appreciate being labeled an agnostic."

Like I told Nappy... I prefer to think of myself as a pedestrian. I do believe in God, but will be the first to admit, I don't know what he looks like.

SMW
Aren't you a Christian? I'd call that a religious theist, at least for the purposes of the poll...

p.s.- Does that have anything to do with the fact that you've previously claimed that atheists outnumber theists here (weren't you the one who said that?)? Theists are already far in the lead, and if you voted that would even further negate that claim. ;)

Aren't you a Christian? I'd call that a religious theist, at least for the purposes of the poll...
If you're comparing me to FT, I'm definitely a Christian. But if you're comparing me to OIUY2O53UOKX. (or whatever their name was), I ain't.

I didn't vote on the 'most popular poster' polls either, so if ya don't mind, I'll just sit this one out.

Nope, sorry... you'll just have to take my word for it.
Translation: "I fabricated a fact in order to bolster my argument."

I went back and counted again... yep, there are THIRTEEN.

Ok.

Name them, and I will send you $100 dollars through ePassporte.

Donate it to the church, or keep it.

Ok.

Name them, and I will send you $100 dollars through ePassporte.

Donate it to the church, or keep it.
She'll make other SNs to make the threads to prove you wrong. Then, when she has the money, she will reveal to the forum that she is, in fact, an atheist, who just got money off a sucker. :D

She'll make other SNs to make the threads to prove you wrong. Then, when she has the money, she will reveal to the forum that she is, in fact, an atheist, who just got money off a sucker. :D
Brilliant! I'm taking FT up on that offer!

Why are so many atheists continually challenging Christians to "prove" their belief?
Are they somehow trying to save Christians from a fate worse than death? Or, are they trying to convince themselves that their own lack of faith is OK?

I think most of it is backlash from the Jesus Camp crowd trying to legislate their beliefs on everyone else and claiming America is a "Christian Nation".

Don't exaggerate the influence of the religious right, lest your exaggeration become a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I am in complete agreement with you that the United States is not a "Christian" nation. The government was set up to be secular and to keep all religions at arm's length. However, the majority of the population can be accurately described as "Christian."

Ok.

Name them, and I will send you $100 dollars through ePassporte.

Donate it to the church, or keep it.
Geesh, can't atheists count??

A Challenge to All Christians
The self-deceit of the 'saved'.
Did Jesus or Jesus' death save us?
Atheists
Jesus Camp (in its entirety)
Does it matter?
Mr Deity
Post from a physicist, "Why I never became a Atheist."
Ever wondered where the stuff mentioned in the bible is??
Christian Fundamentalism: The Religion of Despair and Desperation
Religious nut, or hoax?
Open Letter To Conservative Christians
Google Your Religion
(and just for grins... because you can't prove it isn't...
Ëþáèòåëüñêàÿ ñúåìêà êóðàæà ðóññêèõ ñòóäåíòîê (XXX âèäåî)

Pay up, fool.

Geesh, can't atheists count??

A Challenge to All Christians
The self-deceit of the 'saved'.
Did Jesus or Jesus' death save us?
Atheists
Jesus Camp (in its entirety)
Does it matter?
Mr Deity
Post from a physicist, "Why I never became a Atheist."
Ever wondered where the stuff mentioned in the bible is??
Christian Fundamentalism: The Religion of Despair and Desperation
Religious nut, or hoax?
Open Letter To Conservative Christians
Google Your Religion
(and just for grins... because you can't prove it isn't...
Ëþáèòåëüñêàÿ ñúåìêà êóðàæà ðóññêèõ ñòóäåíòîê (XXX âèäåî)

Pay up, fool.
You blind? "Atheists" was started with the purpose to bash atheists. The physicist one is similar. The vast majority of the remaining don't "bash" Christians, they bash fundamentalism.

Incidentally, SMW, you're acting foolish, childish, and immature. You complain about being "bashed", but you're sure damn quick to bash a group of people to which I belonged until very recently. If you expect anyone's sympathy for playing the "persecuted Christian" card, you're not going to get much of it here. You're acting like a hypocritical, passive-aggressive bitch. If you ever want to be taken seriously again, I suggest you reevaluate exactly how much you practice what you preach.

You said: "Appears there are at least 13 threads on this forum alone dedicated to ridiculing Christians."

A Challenge to All Christians
The self-deceit of the 'saved'.
Atheists
Christian Fundamentalism: The Religion of Despair and Desperation
Jesus Camp (in its entirety)
Religious nut, or hoax?
Open Letter To Conservative Christians
Two of those are videos with little commentary put out by the posters. My posting of the video was not to ridicule Christianity, or all Christians, or even most Christians, my video was posted to point out the indoctrination of their youth in that one church. The same could be said for Vile's video.

And since there are three FT threads, I'll give you those. But how is this thread "dedicated to ridiculing Christians?"
Does it matter?
Did Jesus or Jesus' death save us?
Mr Deity
Post from a physicist, "Why I never became a Atheist."
Ever wondered where the stuff mentioned in the bible is??
Google Your Religion
Show me textual evidence of the ridiculing of Christians happening in these threads.

*grumbles*

Borg with his fast fingers...

Borg, take a pill, dude.

I read thru every one of those threads and yes, they're all bashing Christians. And BTW, I never once COMPLAINED about being bashed... I was merely making an observation.

Now quit being silly and stop stooping to name-calling before I call you a pencil-necked geek who should learn to respect his elders... not to mention his exalted position as High Administrator!

SMW

P.S. I ain't running for most popular poster, so you can stop fearing the competition for Allforum's High School Yearbook.

I read thru every one of those threads and yes, they're all bashing Christians. And BTW, I never once COMPLAINED about being bashed... I was merely making an observation.
Are they bashing Christians in general or just Fundies? Theres a major distinction there.

Geesh, can't atheists count??
Very well, thank you.

I read thru every one of those threads and yes, they're all bashing Christians.
Lets take a look - obviously the ones started by a fundimentalist atheist (rare indeed) are often challenging or bashing on Christians (aka posts by FT), but you claimed that all of these other posts bash on Christians. It looks as if you're just taking any discussions that mention Christianity and saying that they're bashing Christians.

Did Jesus or Jesus' death save us?
---Does Jesus save because he was born or because his blood was spilt?
Asks a very reasonable question to promote discussion. No bashing whatsoever and I do take offense that you would claim that Blob of all people would bash Christians.

Atheists
---Why are so many atheists continually challenging Christians to "prove" their belief?
Are they somehow trying to save Christians from a fate worse than death? Or, are they trying to convince themselves that their own lack of faith is OK?
Not bashing Christians at all, actually it's taking a stance against atheists.

Jesus Camp (in its entirety)
---This is an interesting documentary...
An interesting documentary. I don't see bashing going on here.

Does it matter?
---Does it matter if you have faith or not? I'm not talking about in the grand scheme of eternity, but day to day. What's wrong with believing in God? What's wrong with not?
This one supports religion in the question: what's wrong with believing in God?

etc...

Please do your homework before you make such a strong and insulting claim. It does piss me off hearing a claim like that, but more-so because it is a claim that is so far from the truth made by a normally logical thinker.

WW, I never said the opening post in each thread was a basher. And I'm far too old for homework, so if you wanna spend your weekend going thru each one trying to prove me wrong, go for it. But I gotta warn you... FT posted in every single thread, so he's my ace in the hole in that argument. I'm not too old to state my OPINION, though, and that's what this is all about. At least it gave you and Borgie something to do with yourselves this afternoon.

Geesh, it's no wonder there are so few women around here. You guys are like a bunch of pit bulls... with NO visible sense of humor.

And even if I was WRONG about a few of the threads I listed, that doesn't change the fact that this place if full of Jesus-bashers.

End of discussion.

And even if I was WRONG about a few of the threads I listed, that doesn't change the fact that this place if full of Jesus-bashers.
End of discussion.
............Ok. :)

Geesh, it's no wonder there are so few women around here. You guys are like a bunch of pit bulls... with NO visible sense of humor.
I dare say if there is a relationships section here at allforums, number of female posters will skyrocket.

I dare say if there is a relationships section here at allforums, number of female posters will skyrocket.
I agree. You wanna start one or shall I?

:)
SMW

P.S. Assuming, of course, there are no objections from Mr. Drew about establishing a romance discussion in the chat area. I'd hate to step on his toes, too.

I thought, SMW, that you had claimed those threads were created to bash Christians. If you want to say that there are lots of threads in which at least one post bashes Christians, well then you can pick every thread in which FT posts and of course no one would argue with you about that.

Are they bashing Christians in general or just Fundies? Theres a major distinction there.
according to the lead board bigot there isn't.

WW, I never said the opening post in each thread was a basher.
No, you said, "Appears there are at least 13 threads on this forum alone dedicated to ridiculing Christians." That would mean that the main thrust of each thread would have to be directed at ridiculing Christians. Which frankly isn't true. One person does not make a thread 'dedicated' to ridiculing Christians.

And I'm far too old for homework, so if you wanna spend your weekend going thru each one trying to prove me wrong, go for it.
Doing your homework first is a metaphor for knowing what your talking about before you run your mouth.

But I gotta warn you... FT posted in every single thread, so he's my ace in the hole in that argument.
Again, one person does not make a thread 'dedicated to ridiculting Christians'.

And even if I was WRONG about a few of the threads I listed, that doesn't change the fact that this place if full of Jesus-bashers.
You're seeing what you want to see. It's quite common for a person to make themselves out to be a victim, or in your case making your religion out to be a victim. Claim that FT bashes on religion all you want, but don't make a blanket statement for the rest of us. That's like claiming that all priests are child molesting perverts just because one priest sexually assaulted a child.

End of discussion.
Apparently not. You said this before.

WW, I never said the opening post in each thread was a basher. And I'm far too old for homework, so if you wanna spend your weekend going thru each one trying to prove me wrong, go for it. But I gotta warn you... FT posted in every single thread, so he's my ace in the hole in that argument. I'm not too old to state my OPINION, though, and that's what this is all about. At least it gave you and Borgie something to do with yourselves this afternoon.Looks to me as though FT has already succeeded in getting you to waste your time. What he said was If anyone here can name "at least 13 threads" on this forum that are **dedicated to ridiculing" Christians** I will donate $100 dollars to the church of your choice.
Reply With Quote. If you take his words literally, there aren't any threads here that are 'dedicated' to anything, let alone ridiculing Christians.And even if I was WRONG about a few of the threads I listed, that doesn't change the fact that this place if full of Jesus-bashers.There are some folks here who bash Christians, but I've never heard anyone bash Jesus.

I thought, SMW, that you had claimed those threads were created to bash Christians. If you want to say that there are lots of threads in which at least one post bashes Christians, well then you can pick every thread in which FT posts and of course no one would argue with you about that.
not "created for", "dedicated to";)

Geesh, it's no wonder there are so few women around here. You guys are like a bunch of pit bulls... with NO visible sense of humor.

I enjoy an intelligent debate very much, but please don't expect me to reply kindly when someone accuses me of bashing Christians and being a Jesus hater.

Are they bashing Christians in general or just Fundies? Theres a major distinction there.

No, no.

I am more than willing to count ANY thread that is *dedicated to bashing Christians* OR bashing fundamentalists OR bashing particular sects of Christianity.

She's still way short of 13.

NONE of the follwoing threads are dedicated to bashing Christianity.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Does it matter?
Did Jesus or Jesus' death save us?
Mr. Deity
Post from a physicist, "Why I never became a Atheist."
Ever wondered where the stuff mentioned in the bible is??
Google Your Religion

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Some of them were started with the purpose of illuminating views on Christianity.....pretty much the opposite of what smartmouthwoman is claiming.

But I gotta warn you... FT posted in every single thread, so he's my ace in the hole in that argument.

Another laughably false claim.

You truly DO have trouble counting..........

You're acting like a hypocritical, passive-aggressive bitch.

Personally, I'd say there is no 'acting' involved.

Geesh, it's no wonder there are so few women around here. You guys are like a bunch of pit bulls... with NO visible sense of humor.
This is a debate forum, humor will typically be in the minority here. Some posters are capable of working it into some of their debating posts, you conspicuously not being one of them. Ironically, the one you dislike the most, Freethinker, works humor into his posts far more than you do.

Also, debate is typically a man's activity. Women don't usually involve themselves. *shrugs*

I dare say if there is a relationships section here at allforums, number of female posters will skyrocket.
That would turn that section of the forums into a cybersex junction.

"Hay babee, U wanna do me right liek my poppa did?"
"Sure, just let me get into character."
"Ok."
"I put on my robe and wizard hat, I cast level three eroticism."

Ironically, the one you dislike the most, Freethinker.....

LOL. No surprise there.

"Oh how it infuriates the superstitionist, when his irrational beliefs and prejudices are dragged out into the light to be examined"

"There are some folks here who bash Christians, but I've never heard anyone bash Jesus." --Sedan

Ok--if you like, I'll bash "Jesus." How about this passage, where he says,

"If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town." Matthew 10:14-15

In other words, if your preaching is not accepted, well, . . .. What a petulant, narrow-minded, judgmental attitude he is preaching here: quite the different thing from the words put in his mouth in the Sermon on the Mount.

In my naivety, I actually thought I may gain some insight into the thought processes of those that ask for others to prove the un-provable.
It was not my intent to bash atheists. In normal life I cannot tell an atheist from anyone else.

...gain some insight into the thought processes of those that ask for others to prove the un-provable...
With many of the larger religions (Christianity, Islam) comes a set of ridiculous morals and a history of violence in the name of God. I have met a person who refused to take medicine because if he dies it is, quote: "Part of God's plan." I believe that many atheists have a concern for the illogical set of beliefs that intertwine with our laws, our history, and our current society, and so try to question those who are guilty of supporting such.

In my naivety, I actually thought I may gain some insight into the thought processes of those that ask for others to prove the un-provable.
It was not my intent to bash atheists. In normal life I cannot tell an atheist from anyone else.

It was not an act of naivete OT, it was a perfectly valid question. For myself I can say that I usually take the title of "atheist" as a matter of convenience, but actually "agnostic" would be more accurate. I don't believe God exists, at least not in a form even remotely similar to that presented in the Christian Bible. I'll also freely admit that I could be completely wrong, and I claim no special knowledge in this matter.

When I ask a Christian for some proof or evidence to support their faith it's usually asked of someone who professes to "know" that they are correct in their assessment of the divine. In our everyday lives we act upon things we know and those that we simply believe and there's usually no confusion between the two, or a willful lack of doubt in our behavior. We are wise enough not to send our money to Nigeria based upon the claims of an anonymous e-mail author, but in matters of faith many believers would have you accept the words of anonymous Bible-writers, and not express any doubts as to their claims. The only reason given for this demand of blind faith is that these words are God-inspired and above questioning. The people making this claim of divine inspiration are the writers themselves. No doubt the gentlemen from Nigeria who want you to send them money would prefer that we didn't doubt the veracity of their claims either, but most rational people would balk at that suggestion.

I'm familiar with the idea of "suspending your disbelief" and we all do it in order to enjoy a good story or movie, but that's a temporary condition and we are aware that we are doing it. It seems to me that a lot of religious faith requires you to "suspend your disbelief" on a rather more permanent basis, and I've always been curious as to why it's a good idea when it comes to religious belief. It seems to me that all ideas, even religious ones, are only improved and made more accurate by a healthy dose of skepticism and inquiry. If the idea is a good one it will stand up to scrutiny well, and no explanation has ever been given me why religious ideas should be accepted without skepticism, or why they would be immune to this system of skeptical inquiry.

Doubt isn't a bad thing, nor does it indicate that a person "believes in nothing" as some people have stated in this thread. Doubt is what differentiates us from the other animals and has prompted human advancement. I would even say that doubt inspires us more than faith, and is the predecessor of all scientific advancement. I would also say that while faith has its place in our hearts and our minds, as a method of living your life it leaves much to be desired. Faith may make you safer in the afterlife, but doubt will make you look both ways before you cross the street, even when you have the green light.

It was not an act of naivete OT, it was a perfectly valid question. For myself I can say that I usually take the title of "atheist" as a matter of convenience, but actually "agnostic" would be more accurate. I don't believe God exists, at least not in a form even remotely similar to that presented in the Christian Bible. I'll also freely admit that I could be completely wrong, and I claim no special knowledge in this matter.

.

A good, thoughtful and honest post, VP--of a kind we don't often see here.
It's good to hear "I don't know" sometimes.:)

1323

Sorry, I had to.

"I don't know"
No one knows anything, but if we admitted that, we'd have a boring forum.

Addendum--I think some of us may return to the faith of our childhood as we become older.
After experimenting with and attending almost one dozen different churches throughout my lifetime, including Catholic, Fundamentalist Baptist, and other more obscure sects ( even one in which no music or singing was heard as it was considered "ungodly") I finally made my way back to my childhood's church, where I am happy and comfortable. There is quite a bit of comfort to be had with this fellowship.
This is speaking personally of course. :)

I also have a question for atheists here if I may--I am wondering what, if any, formal churches you may have attended as youngsters? Catholic, fundamentalist, liberal Protestant, Orthodox, none, other?
Just curious.

I also have a question for atheists here if I may--I am wondering what, if any, formal churches you may have attended as youngsters? Catholic, fundamentalist, liberal Protestant, Orthodox, none, other?
Just curious.
I've gone to a Catholic church somewhere in the country every Saturday or Sunday of my life for a mass, and still do. Even when traveling.

A good, thoughtful and honest post, VP--of a kind we don't often see here.
It's good to hear "I don't know" sometimes.:)

Thank you ren. :flowers:

Open Letter To Conservative Christians


Madame,

If you had bothered to read that post you would have known it is not writen by an atheist condemning all Christians. It is written by a Christian and directed at Conservative Christains who support war.

Thanks. A fully understandable answer that makes eminent sense.
Apart from some priests, I have only met one devout Christian. His name was Roger Lewis and he was a Manager that used to work for me. He never preached to his fellow employees (I think he preached at his Evangelical church) and was fully accepting of all, regardless of their different religions or lack thereof. The only difference that one initially noticed was that there was always a bible on his desk.
Roger would never initiate a debate regarding religion. But, if you asked him, he would answer your questions. Roger would never try to prove anything, rather his response was along the lines that he "just knew" God was a part of him. If it sounded corny to others, it didn't bother him.
Roger lived his life as a Christian. he didn't criticize those that didn't. Surprisingly, through constant exposure to his behaviour, others would modify their behaviour, at least in his presence. I wish the bible-thumping zealots could have met Roger and behave more like him.
Roger died of cancer in 1988, when he was about 40. He faced death supremely confident that he would indeed dwell with God.

"I'm familiar with the idea of "suspending your disbelief" and we all do it in order to enjoy a good story or movie, but that's a temporary condition and we are aware that we are doing it." --Vilepagan

Life is also a temporary condition and surely we should constantly remind ourselves that all our opinions are suspensions of disbelief.

I would even say that doubt inspires us more than faith, and is the predecessor of all scientific advancement.

The understatement of the century.

__________________________________

"Humanity's first sin was faith; the first virtue was doubt."

Originally Posted by smartmouthwoman

I went back and counted again... yep, there are THIRTEEN.

Ok. Name them, and I will send you $100 dollars through ePassporte.

Donate it to the church, or keep it.

Please note that the following threads ---

Does it matter?
Did Jesus or Jesus' death save us?
Mr Deity
Post from a physicist, "Why I never became a Atheist."
Ever wondered where the stuff mentioned in the bible is??
Google Your Religion

-- have nothing to do with being *dedicated to bashing Christians*.

I agree. You wanna start one or shall I?

:)
SMW

P.S. Assuming, of course, there are no objections from Mr. Drew about establishing a romance discussion in the chat area. I'd hate to step on his toes, too.
I only predicted what the impact of having relationships section will be. I didn't say I like to participate in that section if it's there.
That would turn that section of the forums into a cybersex junction.
This can be easily sidestepped by also having a cybersex junction, separate from relationships section.

Atheists; HUmmmmm I guess I fit that mold.
Why, I have a hard time believing that if there is a god that he could let such injustices go on in the world. Let people be so hurt and take away things so precious to them and unborn lifes that has never had a change to live and share. He lets good people get killed and others lie in comas awaiting their fate (for a lack of a better word).
I don't knock people who are any denomination nor do I want them to judge me. I am not insecure in this issue of not believing.
Maybe on some level I hope there is something or someone bigger out there. Maybe I want to believe that there is a god and all the love ones that I know that have passed are there and are together looking after one and other.
I like to learn about other religions. I just don't want them to shove it down my throat if I don't believe in what they believe.
Everyone has a right to believe in what they will. I just feel some denominations don't know when to quit and don't practise what they preach.

Why are so many atheists continually challenging Christians to "prove" their belief?
Are they somehow trying to save Christians from a fate worse than death? Or, are they trying to convince themselves that their own lack of faith is OK?

can I ask you how you installed your avatar? I love tigers..

Originally Posted by Oldtimer
Why are so many atheists continually challenging Christians to "prove" their belief?
Are they somehow trying to save Christians from a fate worse than death?

can I ask you how you installed your avatar?

Well, sassy, I guess he could have prayed to an unseen God for a tiger avatar, and it just magically appeared one day.

http://thehumdrumchronicles.typepad.com/the_hum_drum_chronicles/images/deformedwhitetiger.jpg

WWRRROOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

It's a miracle!

That's the ugliest thing I've ever seen, what an awful SN, sassyrunner.

Oh, the tiger is pretty nasty too.

That's the ugliest thing I've ever seen, what an awful SN, sassyrunner.

Oh, the tiger is pretty nasty too.
it looks more like a liger or tigon.:confused:

That's the ugliest thing I've ever seen, what an awful SN, sassyrunner.

Oh, the tiger is pretty nasty too.
sure, pick on the new kid:rolleyes:

It's just a 39kB GIF uploaded from my computer.