I just thought that you guys might find this interesting.

As you know or dont know, im in South Korea. The religious divisions go something like this:

no affiliation 46%, Christian 26%, Buddhist 26%, Confucianist 1%, other 1%,

As per the CIA world Factbook. Thats nearly 50% with no religious affiliations. As compared with 10% or so in the US. Another thing is, i can go stand at the gates of town outside of the base here, and see at least 5 crosses rising above the rest of the skyline. In fact, there is one monsterous church right in the middle of the town, you'd think you were in old Europe if you saw it. There are Christian churches everywhere, here. Maybe ill go get some pictures of them heh. They dont look like churches in Europe or the US, but they are churches nontheless. There have to be at least 10 or so within just a mile or two of me. In contrast, I know of only 1 Buddist temple in town. In a place where seemingly 50% of the population has no religious affiliations, there sure are a lot of churches.

[QUOTE=lifelongnomad]



HE gave us free will. Anyone who does what you've stated above will not go directly to heaven. They will pay for their sins in purgatory ONLY IF they express true sorrow for their sins will they ever get to heaven.


QUOTE]

I don't understand the Catholic belief in purgatory.
Didn't Jesus say to the thief, "Today thou shalt be with me in Paradise"?

Being christian doesn't mean you have to be a square FT...Neither does being an atheist automatically mean you are not a square.

I mean, look at me...

Blob^2

I just thought that you guys might find this interesting.

As you know or dont know, im in South Korea. The religious divisions go something like this:

no affiliation 46%, Christian 26%, Buddhist 26%, Confucianist 1%, other 1%,

As per the CIA world Factbook. Thats nearly 50% with no religious affiliations. As compared with 10% or so in the US. Another thing is, i can go stand at the gates of town outside of the base here, and see at least 5 crosses rising above the rest of the skyline. In fact, there is one monsterous church right in the middle of the town, you'd think you were in old Europe if you saw it. There are Christian churches everywhere, here. Maybe ill go get some pictures of them heh. They dont look like churches in Europe or the US, but they are churches nontheless. There have to be at least 10 or so within just a mile or two of me. In contrast, I know of only 1 Buddist temple in town. In a place where seemingly 50% of the population has no religious affiliations, there sure are a lot of churches.
Do you have any ideas as to why Christianity did relatively well in Korea but so poorly in China and Japan (by comparison).

There are a lot of Roman Catholics in Vietnam, stemming from the period of French rule, although Buddhism is certainly much larger.

I don't understand the Catholic belief in purgatory.
Didn't Jesus say to the thief, "Today thou shalt be with me in Paradise"?

Perhaps this link will help you understand the belief Catholics have in purgatory.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp

I agree it is a hard concept and yes, Jesus did say the thief would be in Pardise w/Him for his act of faith. I don't believe that the thief went straight to heaven though...

Since the story says that Jesus was in the tomb for parts of three days and nights, it seems inconsistent for him to have said the guy would be with him "today" in paradise.

Various Catholics I've talked with have had various definitions of Jesus' quote to the thief.

One person said that Jesus gave that man special consideration; another, a Catholic priest, said that the definition of the word "today" was not what most people took it to mean.

Be that as it may, it appears a cruel dogma and one not supported by any teachings in Scripture--a soul literally being neither here nor there until enough prayers combined with monetary donations served to speed the soul to Paradise.

Sooooooo.......

....any True Believers here handled a poisonous snake yet, or drank poison?

Why not?!?!?

Demonstrate your belief!!

You'll be okay. God said so.

Sooooooo.......

....any True Believers here handled a poisonous snake yet, or drank poison?

Why not?!?!?

Demonstrate your belief!!

You'll be okay. God said so.
Yes FT! You've got it down exactly. The entire Bible is a book that needs to be taken literally. You're a brilliant man with a deep understanding of theology, that much is clear.

Sooooooo.......

....any True Believers here handled a poisonous snake yet, or drank poison?

Why not?!?!?

Demonstrate your belief!!

You'll be okay. God said so.

Quit beating the dead horse FT.

Yes FT! You've got it down exactly. The entire Bible is a book that needs to be taken literally.

That's odd.

I have never heard anyone here make that claim.

You're a brilliant man with a deep understanding of theology....

It probably just seems "deep" to you in comparison to your own pathetic lack of understanding..........of theology as well as of most other issues and topics.

Quit beating the dead horse FT.

LOL. I'll quit beating it when one of the *True Believers* shows me he/she actually believes the Biblical writings they claim to believe, and drinks poison.

(Which they will never do.)

But then, at least they retain enough of a hold on sanity to realize, deep down, that what Biblegod said (concerning the handling of snakes and drinking of poison, for example) was nonsense.

(note; although one of the religionist's favorite (iow, perpetual) excuses is to pule --"Well now ya see, THAT part right there wasn't meant to be taken literally!"-- it is quite clear from the context of the scripture in question that Biblegod speaking literally)

None of it is meant to be taken literally. There was never any picking and choosing on my part as to which parts of the Bible are literal.

That's odd.

I have never heard anyone here make that claim
Every time you petition for Christians to drink poison as per the Bible's request, you support the literal interpretation of The Bible. If you do that, then you misunderstand the entire religion.

In reality, you know nothing of Christians outside of your contempt for them. You've been to church, but you've never contemplated the emotions of it, you wave it off as "superstitious malarkey", which makes you a small and bitter person.

You also have trouble interpreting people's tones through text. Perhaps that is why you misunderstand The Bible.

It probably just seems "deep" to you in comparison to your own pathetic lack of understanding..........of theology as well as of most other issues and topics.
I revisited the thread, seeing that I forgot to address this part of the post.

Aside from the fact you missed my jesting tone, tell me, what issues do I have a "pathetic lack of understanding?"

What political party do I support? What is my political ideology? Religious affiliation? What philosophical school do I follow? What are my stances on things like the Iraq War, social welfare programs, gun and drug policy?

Tell me, what do you know of my pathetic understanding of most issues?

Don't be a Dop and fail to answer my post. Thanks.

There's a little problem with not taking any part of the Bible literally.

If you can't believe a word of it, why the hell are you even picking it up? That's why Christians pick and choose the parts of the Bible they want to take literally. They have to pick something, otherwise it's all moot. But they swap them around like it was a shell game.

"Which verse here do the Christians take seriously? Step right up! Take your pick, first one to win gets an all-expenses paid trip to God's own pool when you die! Take diving lessons from the Man himself!"

If you can't believe a word of it, why the hell are you even picking it up?
Flawed reasoning. If it isn't meant to be taken literally, then you are supposed to absorb the messages from the parables and allegorical tales. Some people take things on faith, and they can never be sure of everything in The Bible, however, the emotional and "spiritual" guidance it brings is enough for many millions to pick it up.

Look, if there's no Jesus, no resurrection, no healing blind men, water into wine, all that crap, there's absolutely nothing to build an enormous Church with. Nothing. No way you could convince people to send away scads of hard earned money, nothing with which to hold over your heads when you want to convince them to be good, nothing at all.

Christians have to take the Bible literally. Because if they don't they have to face up to the fact that their entire history is a sham. The same way Americans don't want to own up to the fact that their country has been just as evil as all the others in the past, Christians need to feel like all that crap was worth something.

That's the real reason why they take the Bible literally. You heard it here first.

Look, if there's no Jesus, no resurrection, no healing blind men, water into wine, all that crap, there's absolutely nothing to build an enormous Church with. Nothing. No way you could convince people to send away scads of hard earned money, nothing with which to hold over your heads when you want to convince them to be good, nothing at all.
You are correct, sir.
You heard it here first.
I've heard it many other times before, Nappy.

One cannot know the hour of his death. I mean obviously if your ill, and you know you are going to die, you can call in a priest to help you. But if you die in an accident its different. I meant it in the sense that as long as you accept him at any point, you will be saved. Maybe being saved is more complicated than simply, all be it genuinely, accepting Christ. but from what I got out of Christianity, thats what Ive come to understand. Enlighten me if Im wrong.
what i've understood is that if you know you're doing wrong and keep doing it, you're guilty, but if you change your ways once you've found the truth, that's different. it the difference between a reason and an excuse.

Im not a God hating person here, I believe in some sort of higher power, I just do not prescribe to any particular religion. I think organized religion is one of the main reasons the world is so messed up these days. Its good that it brings hope to people, and I do not look down on people who practice religion. However religion has done just as many bad things to the world, as good.
if it'll make you feel better, i have my own questions about the nature of God, Christ's divinity, and the status of Hell's cadre, but i'll find out soon enough. i'm in no hurry to find out, but i'll find out soon enough.

I came across this one the other day...

Proverbs 26
4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Contradiction or poetic licence?
damned if you do, damned if you don't. you have to accept that there are times that you just can't win so you have to decided how to lose.

Look, if there's no Jesus, no resurrection, no healing blind men, water into wine, all that crap, there's absolutely nothing to build an enormous Church with. Nothing. No way you could convince people to send away scads of hard earned money, nothing with which to hold over your heads when you want to convince them to be good, nothing at all.

Christians have to take the Bible literally. Because if they don't they have to face up to the fact that their entire history is a sham. The same way Americans don't want to own up to the fact that their country has been just as evil as all the others in the past, Christians need to feel like all that crap was worth something.

That's the real reason why they take the Bible literally. You heard it here first.

Well, the thing is, I'm not a Christian. So I can, and do, see the good of the Bible without taking it literally.

how about we just say everyone is right, and move on
that's a Heinleinian concept. read "The Cat who walks Though Walls" and "The Number of the Beast".

Well, the thing is, I'm not a Christian. So I can, and do, see the good of the Bible without taking it literally.
do you think the world would be a better place if people treated other like they'd like to be treated?

do you think the world would be a better place if people treated other like they'd like to be treated?
Yes.

Yes.
and do you try to live by that principle?

and do you try to live by that principle?
Yes, I do, although I fail dismally sometimes. What are you getting at?

Yes, I do, although I fail dismally sometimes. What are you getting at?
you're closer to the Kingdom of God than a good portion of the Sunday morning crowd.

(i'd say it was your's already, but that's not a promise i can make)

you're closer to the Kingdom of God than a good portion of the Sunday morning crowd.

(i'd say it was your's already, but that's not a promise i can make)
:D Thanks dear.

you're welcomehttp://www.emofaces.com/en/smilies/d/deer-smile.gif

1318

1319

What will you be when you die?

Repent now, and you shall be saved!

do you think the world would be a better place if people treated other like they'd like to be treated?
Question: if you were the defendant in a criminal trial, you would like the jury to adquit you. Therefore, on the basis of treating others as you would like them to treat you, how could you possibly vote to convict a criminal?

Question: if you were the defendant in a criminal trial, you would like the jury to adquit you. Therefore, on the basis of treating others as you would like them to treat you, how could you possibly vote to convict a criminal?
You're missing the point. If the defendant had treated others the way he wished to be treated in the first place, he wouldn't be sitting there accused of a crime to begin with. (Theoretically; I'm assuming guilt on the part of the defendant here.)

Originally Posted by Evakian
Yes FT! You've got it down exactly. The entire Bible is a book that needs to be taken literally.


That's odd.

I have never heard anyone here make that claim.

Every time you petition for Christians to drink poison as per the Bible's request, you support the literal interpretation of The Bible.

Not so fast. Read your (underlined) quote above.

Your insinuation, you intellectually dishonest POS, was that I was had suggested that the entire Bible is a book that needs to be taken literally.

My response was that I have never heard anyone suggest that the entire Bible needs to be taken literally. And I haven't.

Whenever I challenge Christians to drink poison as per the Bible's request, I am basing it on a literal interpretation of one verse of the Bible.

In reality, you know nothing of Christians outside of your contempt for them. You've been to church, but you've never contemplated the emotions of it,

I'll tell you what is *in reality*, dimwit; the reality is that you have no idea what I know or do not know about relgion.

I can tell you that I was immersed in it for 20 years,and that I have spent another +20 years in deep contemplation of it.

Perhaps that is why you misunderstand The Bible.

I understand at least one verse perfectly.

Biblegod is asserting in no uncertain terms that those who are believers in Jesus can drink poison without harm.

Mark 16:18 - “They will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” (NIV)

Sooo......have any of the True Believers here faced the challenge yet and drank poison?

Why not?

You'll be okay. God said so.

No I did not miss the point, although I think you did. The "Golden Rule" is a glittering generality (something that sounds nice on the surface but really doesn't say anything particularly valuable. If we go around treating others as we would like to be treated, we would not charge interest or even expect repayment of loans; we would not demand justice of criminals; we would even yield right-of-way when we have the green light.

The only way the maxim works is when you ignore what it actually says but impute a more reasonable, but in fact incredibly complicated, interpretation.

This is the problem with almost all ethical maxims--there necessarily are exceptions, and exceptions to the exceptions, and so on.

Your insinuation, you intellectually dishonest POS
I'll tell you what is *in reality*, dimwit
Sooo......have any of the True Believers here faced the challenge yet and drank poison?
You are the most juvenile poster on this website. Are you sure you are 53?
Your insinuation, you intellectually dishonest POS, was that I was had suggested that the entire Bible is a book that needs to be taken literally.
It is called 'sarcasm.' Do I believe you think the whole Bible is to be taken literally? No. Do I know that many Christians pick and choose what they consider fact and philosophical/moral musing? Yes. Do I see a problem with picking and choosing (as you and the Christians have done)? Yes.
I can tell you that I was immersed in it for 20 years,and that I have spent another +20 years in deep contemplation of it.
Okay then. You have been immersed in it, and have deeply contemplated it. Since you know so much about religion:

Explain to me the key differences between the theology of the Catholics versus Evangelical Baptists.

Explain to me the meaning of the term "Samkhya."

Tell me who the most recent mainfestation of God is in the Ba'hai faith.

Tell me what you know of the concept of the Holy Trinity.

What are the significances of Eid Al-Fitr and Eid Al-Adha.

What are the parts of the Eightfold Path?

The Yin and Yang represent "good and evil": true or false? If false, what do they represent?
------------------
Oh, and I'd also like you to answer these questions, immediately. (see below)

Aside from the fact you missed my jesting tone, tell me, what issues do I have a "pathetic lack of understanding?"

What political party do I support? What is my political ideology? Religious affiliation? What philosophical school do I follow? What are my stances on things like the Iraq War, social welfare programs, gun and drug policy?

Tell me, what do you know of my pathetic understanding of most issues?

... you intellectually dishonest POS, ....


I'll tell you what is *in reality*, dimwit; the reality is that you have no idea what I know or do not know about relgion.

He didn't say you didn't know anything about religion. He said:

"In reality, you know nothing of Christians outside of your contempt for them. You've been to church, but you've never contemplated the emotions of it"


I can tell you that I was immersed in it for 20 years,and that I have spent another +20 years in deep contemplation of it.

In all that time all you've managed to conclude is that Christianity is nothing but contemptible. I'd say you need to widen your view a bit. And maybe lose just a little of your bitterness. Or a lot.

He didn't say you didn't know anything about religion. He said:

"In reality, you know nothing of Christians outside of your contempt for them. You've been to church, but you've never contemplated the emotions of it"

Ok. Good point.

I will rephrase that to say --" The reality is that you have no idea what I know or do not know about Christians"".

In all that time all you've managed to conclude is that Christianity is nothing but contemptible.

Yes. I believe that reaching such a conclusion is my prerogative, .......correct?!

I'd say you need to widen your view a bit. And maybe lose just a little of your bitterness. Or a lot.

<yawn> Your opinion is noted.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So; have any of the True Believers here faced the challenge yet and drank poison or handled a rattlesnake?

Why not?

You'll be okay. God said so.

Answer my post FT. I cannot wait for the scintillating response.

<yawn> Your opinion is noted.
You stuck a Post-It note on the fridge, no doubt!

"Widen views on religion"

Right under, "Get more milk"!

So; have any of the True Believers here faced the challenge yet and drank poison or handled a rattlesnake?

Why not?

You'll be okay. God said so.If Mark 16:18 said “They will pick up grass and alcohol with their hands; and when they drink and stone, it will not have any health risks at all; they will place their hands on bad trippers, and they will chill right the fuck out” then I'd convert.

You stuck a Post-It note on the fridge, no doubt!

"Widen views on religion"

Right under, "Get more milk"!Man, you kill me! :D

If Mark 16:18 said “They will pick up grass and alcohol with their hands; and when they drink and stone, it will not have any health risks at all; they will place their hands on bad trippers, and they will chill right the fuck out” then I'd convert.
Sweet, me too.

Answer my post FT. I cannot wait for the scintillating response.

Your post is based on a wrong assumption.

When I said --

I can tell you that I was immersed in it for 20 years,and that I have spent another +20 years in deep contemplation of it.

The *it* in that sentence was meant to signify the Xtian religion, NOT all of the religions of the world.

I do not know the meaning of the term "Samkhya."

I do not know who is the most recent mainfestation of God is in the Ba'hai faith.

I do not know the significances of Eid Al-Fitr and Eid Al-Adha.

I do not know the parts of the Eightfold Path.

Tell me what you know of the concept of the Holy Trinity.

I know that is is an absurdity.

It has exactly the same degree of meaning (i.e., none) as saying ""Three is actually not three, but one"".

How about the second part of my post? You fail to sate my curiosity with your omniscient knowledge of my views.
-------------------
Aside from the fact you missed my jesting tone, tell me, what issues do I have a "pathetic lack of understanding?"

What political party do I support? What is my political ideology? Religious affiliation? What philosophical school do I follow? What are my stances on things like the Iraq War, social welfare programs, gun and drug policy?

Tell me, what do you know of my pathetic understanding of most issues?

How about the second part of my post? You fail to sate my curiosity with your omniscient knowledge of my views.

?!?!?

I said --""It probably just seems "deep" to you in comparison to your own pathetic lack of understanding..........of theology as well as of most other issues and topics.""

That can in no way be construed as a claim by me that I know your particular religious or political affiliations. The fact that you think it should be construed as saying that is yet another example of your cluelessness.

You could be a Rastafarian vegetarian or a Buddhist anarchist and it would not have any bearing on the fact that you seem to have a lack of understanding of the discussions on various topics and issues here on this board.

Hope that "sates" your curiosity.

ROTFL.

You could be a Rastafarian vegetarian or a Buddhist anarchist and it would not have any bearing on the fact that you seem to have a lack of understanding of the discussions on various topics and issues here on this board.
"You seem to have..."

It is hard to express how humorous I find it that you think I am ever being serious when I speak with you.

"Well gee Evak, you have a pathetic understanding of most issues because I lack the reading comprehension to interpret tone or the mentions Evak periodically makes about his postings."

You have kept me chuckling since I got here.

Your post is based on a wrong assumption.

When I said --



The *it* in that sentence was meant to signify the Xtian religion, NOT all of the religions of the world.

I do not know the meaning of the term "Samkhya."

I do not know who is the most recent mainfestation of God is in the Ba'hai faith.

I do not know the significances of Eid Al-Fitr and Eid Al-Adha.

I do not know the parts of the Eightfold Path.



I know that is is an absurdity.

It has exactly the same degree of meaning (i.e., none) as saying ""Three is actually not three, but one"".


Thats funny, you know less about religion then most 12 year olds and I'd say I know about as much of Evolution then you do, if not more.
And you call yourself a freethinker.

How can you even consider yourself to be a free thinker if all your opinions of something are based off of nothing more then a passing thought.

Thats funny, you know less about religion then most 12 year olds and I'd say I know about as much of Evolution then you do, if not more.
And you call yourself a freethinker.

How can you even consider yourself to be a free thinker if all your opinions of something are based off of nothing more then a passing thought.
FT knows a lot about religion, he just hates it.

True.

Thats funny, you know less about religion then most 12 year olds ...

Ok. Think what you please.

.....and I'd say I know about as much of Evolution then you do, if not more.


Do you acknowledge that the theory of evolution is the best explanation science has as to what occured?

__________________________

Sadly, more than half the American population is convinced, all evidence to the contrary, that the entire cosmos was created 6,000 years ago. This represents a point in human history about a thousand years after the Sumerians invented glue.

Do you acknowledge that the theory of evolution is the best explanation science has as to what occured?


Well, yes I do. What else would science have?


Sadly, more than half the American population is convinced, all evidence to the contrary, that the entire cosmos was created 6,000 years ago. This represents a point in human history about a thousand years after the Sumerians invented glue.

Yes, but there has to be a reason they believe this.

Yes, but there has to be a reason they believe this.

Faith.

Do you acknowledge that the theory of evolution is the best explanation science has as to what occured?


Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades...

We don't know how the hell we got here.

Evolution isn't even that close to being explained. There is a theory but not much fact to back it up. Notice they don't find any "in between" species between an ape becoming a bird.. or an eel becoming a dolphin. How did all those different species come about? Doesn't evolution say they mutated over millions of years?

Sounds like people are willing to strongly believe anything that's not found in the bible. So if the theory of evolution were found in any random spot in the bible, would you not believe in it simply because it's in there?

I do find it funny how people question the bible that's been around for centuries, yet believe anything that's written on a piece of paper or found on a hard disk from yesterday.

Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades...

We don't know how the hell we got here.

Evolution isn't even that close to being explained. There is a theory but not much fact to back it up. Notice they don't find any "in between" species between an ape becoming a bird.. or an eel becoming a dolphin. How did all those different species come about? Doesn't evolution say they mutated over millions of years?

What you're talking about would lead to the discovery of the origin of life.

There are fossils that show the developmental stages of evolution within the same species. Each stage of development backed up by DNA testing. The oldest fossil evidence of man, looks a lot like a monkey who stands up right. Lack of fossils showing what you have explained has moved evolution thinking into some what of another direction. Which is kind of, as yet, unknown.

If you were to look at the evidence you couldnt deny it and I'm a Christian telling you this.
The problem I see with it is, it's unrefined and it hasnt reached its full potential yet. Which means everything outside of the current fossil evidence Is speculation and guess work. Well, almost everything.
Basically, science can only build off of what it has and in the way of evolution science has quite a bit but its still not enough to turn the light of evolution
all the way on.
As a Christian we cant say if it will or if it wont. All Christians can do is expect Gods will to be done.

Sadly, more than half the American population is convinced, all evidence to the contrary, that the entire cosmos was created 6,000 years ago. This represents a point in human history about a thousand years after the Sumerians invented glue.

Yes, but there has to be a reason they believe this.

True.

That *reason* is a combination of two things.

a) Ignorance.....much of it willful ignorance, some of it just plain ignorance.

b) They have been infected with a meme (IOW, a mind virus) that obstructs and hinders their ability to reason and to think critically.

______________________________________

Theists don't seem to understand that, in science, a theory is the highest possible status that any explanation can have. In laymen terms a theory is a 'guess'. Evolution is not a 'guess'. It is the sum of a mountain of evidence collected over many, many years, and there is zero evidence for creationism except in pseudoscience.

True.

That *reason* is a combination of two things.

a) Ignorance.....much of it willful ignorance, some of it just plain ignorance.

b) They have been infected with a meme (IOW, a mind virus) that obstructs and hinders their ability to reason and to think critically.

______________________________________

Theists don't seem to understand that, in science, a theory is the highest possible status that any explanation can have. In laymen terms a theory is a 'guess'. Evolution is not a 'guess'. It is the sum of a mountain of evidence collected over many, many years, and there is zero evidence for creationism except in pseudoscience.

What if the kind of meme youre talking about isnt a flaw?

What if the kind of meme youre talking about isnt a flaw?
The inability to reason and think critically isn't a flaw? My English professor would disagree.

Sounds like people are willing to strongly believe anything that's not found in the bible. So if the theory of evolution were found in any random spot in the bible, would you not believe in it simply because it's in there?

I do find it funny how people question the bible that's been around for centuries, yet believe anything that's written on a piece of paper or found on a hard disk from yesterday.
That's not true for me... If evolution were written of in the Bible, and still documented with scientific facts, I'd certainly still believe it. I think everyone else would too. The problem is that the standard interpretation of the Bible (which could actually be wrong, and not really what God meant) is that the world was created some 6,000 years ago or so, and that's just not backed up by science. If science said that the world was 6,000 years old I'd believe it, regardless of what the Bible says.

The inability to reason and think critically isn't a flaw? My English professor would disagree.


What he said was, over half the population of the united states has been infected with a virus, only he called a meme a virus.

In other words he said, the culter itself is a disease.

What he said was, over half the population of the united states has been infected with a virus, only he called a meme a virus.

In other words he said, the culter itself is a disease.
A meme is not a culture. It is an "element of culture or system of behavior passed from one person to another by non-genetic means, esp. imitation". By meme he was referring to the fact that Christianity seemingly hinders reason and critical thinking, not Christianity itself. A small distinction.

A meme is not a culture. It is an "element of culture or system of behavior passed from one person to another by non-genetic means, esp. imitation". By meme he was referring to the fact that Christianity seemingly hinders reason and critical thinking, not Christianity itself. A small distinction.

How is what you have said here, different from what I have said?

How is what you have said here, different from what I have said?
He is insulting a small aspect of Christianity that does not even apply to some or most Christians. That's completely different than insulting the entire culture of Christianity.

He is insulting a small aspect of Christianity that does not even apply to some or most Christians. That's completely different than insulting the entire culture of Christianity.


Not really but you hold onto that thought, it helps with the illusion.

Not really but you hold onto that thought, it helps with the illusion.
It is completely different. If you were disputing what it was that he's insulting, you're wrong in this instance. He does regularly insult Christianity, and all other religions, but this specific time he was referring to a specific attitude that many Christians seem to have.

It is completely different. If you were disputing what it was that he's insulting, you're wrong in this instance. He does regularly insult Christianity, and all other religions, but this specific time he was referring to a specific attitude that many Christians seem to have.


So in other words, its ok to call some Christians diseased as long as its just some, when your talking about the majority?

So in other words, its ok to call some Christians diseased as long as its just some, when your talking about the majority?
I didn't say that. Why are you arguing with me about this? In no way do I condone anything that FT says about Christians or theists in general. I just thought that you slightly misunderstood his statement, wrong as it was.

I don't see why everyone seems to attack me for believing things that I clearly don't believe...

I didn't say that. Why are you arguing with me about this? In no way do I condone anything that FT says about Christians or theists in general. I just thought that you slightly misunderstood his statement, wrong as it was.

I don't see why everyone seems to attack me for believing things that I clearly don't believe...


My apologies, the point I just made was my original point, it was what I was trying to say to FT.
By correcting me, it seemed as if you were defending what he said.

Undoubtedly, FT will not defend his own words.

I picked up an asp today...

I picked up an asp today...
and i drank a good half a liter of mixed toxins.

I drank Mountain Dew!

and i drank a good half a liter of mixed toxins.

Good job. You should keep that routine. :slap:

What (Freethinker) said was, over half the population of the united states has been infected with a virus, only he called a meme a virus.

Disease? Being infected with a meme cannot always be equated with having a "disease".

It is a form of mental illness.

And a meme is a virus....a mind virus.

As Richard Brodie explains in his book "Virus of the Mind", ....

"Viruses of the mind have been with us throughout history, but are constantly evolving and changing. They are infectious pieces of our culture that spread rapidly throughout a population, altering people’s thoughts and lives in their wake. They include everything from relatively harmless mind viruses, such as miniskirts and slang phrases, to mind viruses that seriously derail people’s lives....such as the Crips and Bloods youth gangs and the Branch Davidian religious cult."


Christianity is one religious cult, just as the Branch Davidians were another religious cult.

In other words he said, the culture itself is a disease.

I'm not sure i'd agree with that.....in the case of Christianity, the mental disturbance itself (the mind virus) takes the form of an irrational belief in --among other absurdities-- an unseen, omnipotent being who watches over all humankind.

He is insulting a small aspect of Christianity that does not even apply to some or most Christians.

Insulting??

Inviting Bible believers to do what their invisible Creator being has told them to do in his "perfect" book shouldn't be an insult to any of them.

If anyone is guilty of 'insult', it is the so-called "believers" who insult the religion they supposedly believe in by being afraid to do what their holy book says believers in Jesus can do, and drinking poison with no ill effect.............wouldn't you agree?

Insulting??

Inviting Bible believers to do what their invisible Creator being has told them to do in his "perfect" book shouldn't be an insult to any of them.

If anyone is guilty of 'insult', it is the so-called "believers" who insult the religion they supposedly believe in by being afraid to do what their holy book says believers in Jesus can do, and drinking poison with no ill effect.............wouldn't you agree?
That wasn't what I was talking about... You were insulting Christianity by calling it a "mind virus".

Hmmm what is another mind virus....

Being a paranoid obsessive conspiracy theorist??

Oh.. that's nothing.. but christianity.. its gotta go

I differentiate between true Christians and Christianists. Fundamentalsists who like to pick and choose what parts of the bible they want imposed on everyone are really more accurately described as Christianists. (i.e. Jesus Camp)

That wasn't what I was talking about... You were insulting Christianity by calling it a "mind virus".

No!

Absolutely not!

It is a simple statement of fact ---borne out by scientific research by evolutionary biologists such as Richard Dawkins--- to call it that.

It IS a mind virus. Plain and simple.

I differentiate between true Christians and Christianists. Fundamentalsists who like to pick and choose what parts of the bible they want imposed on everyone are really more accurately described as Christianists. (i.e. Jesus Camp)

alot of the bible is just recording history... especially in the old testament.

Its obvious to see what the main messages from the bible are.. i don't think God wants you to rape women just because some women were described as raped in the bible somewhere.

No!

Absolutely not!

It is a simple statement of fact ---borne out by scientific research by evolutionary biologists such as Richard Dawkins--- to call it that.

It IS a mind virus. Plain and simple.
Of course it's true, but that doesn't make it any less of an insult. If you call a prostitute a whore it's still not very nice even though it's true.

Its obvious to see what the main messages from the bible are.. i don't think God wants you to rape women just because some women were described as raped in the bible somewhere.
Quite true.

Of course it's true, but that doesn't make it any less of an insult. If you call a prostitute a whore it's still not very nice even though it's true.

Yea i guess we all have "mind virus's".. i wonder if FT will admit to having one as well.. my guess is that his ego, being an extreme liberal and all, won't let him.

And isn't he 53? well i guess he's not "old".. he's an old, rotting, frail-assed, never-was, fat fuck... LMAO

Yea i guess we all have "mind virus's".. i wonder if FT will admit to having one as well.. my guess is that his ego, being an extreme liberal and all, won't let him.

And isn't he 53? well i guess he's not "old".. he's an old, rotting, frail-assed, never-was, fat fuck... LMAO
Of course we all have "mind viruses", or memes, of some sort. Unless we claim not to have been influenced in our behavior in any way by other people, no one can deny that.

Of course it's true, but that doesn't make it any less of an insult.

We disagree.

Saying --"The Christian belief system is an example of a meme"- is in no way an insult. The truth is not an insult.

We disagree.

Saying --"The Christian belief system is an example of a meme"- is in no way an insult. The truth is not an insult.

LMAO so your opinion is "the truth"?

The christian belief system has produced rebirths in many other-wised doomed individuals.. if it IS a "meme".. its a pretty damned good one. What a virus, it causes people to meet once a week, help the homeless, give to the needy, be nice, respectful, and well-mannered to people, and it gives people who have nothing else a reason to live.

Yea that damned mind virus!

Its obvious to see what the main messages from the bible are.. i don't think God wants you to rape women just because some women were described as raped in the bible somewhere.

Very bad analogy.

As loathe as I am to descend to a very juvenile level in order to explain this to you, I will do it, if for no other reason than to expose your inanity.

When the rapes are described, it is not the god of the Bible telling people --"Those who truly believe in Jesus will be able to rape women and do other wondrous things" .

When the handling of snakes and the drinking of poison is described, it IS the god of the Bible saying --"Those who truly believe in Jesus will be able to handle snakes and the drink poison and suffer no harm".

LMAO so your opinion is "the truth"?

No, the reseach of scientists is, in this case, the truth. (Google *meme* and *Richard Dawkins*)

.... if it IS a "meme".. its a pretty damned good one. ]

Ok.

You see it as "good". It can takes forms that are both "good" and "bad".

Whether it is "good" or not does not detract from the fact that it is not grounded in objective reality. It is an irrational beleif.

alot of the bible is just recording history... especially in the old testament.

History? Hmmmm.. do you mean Adam and Eve? Noah's Ark? The Burning Bush? There is obviously history involved but I don't agree with dismissing the whole thing as "just recording history".

History? Hmmmm.. do you mean Adam and Eve? Noah's Ark? The Burning Bush? There is obviously history involved but I don't agree with dismissing the whole thing as "just recording history".
I believe he said "a lot", not "the whole thing".

I believe he said "a lot", not "the whole thing".

I rounded up. Sue me.

Sue me.
I think I will. Where's Lionel?

I rounded up. Sue me.
Your post wouldn't have had a point if you hadn't distorted what he had said.

No, the reseach of scientists is, in this case, the truth. (Google *meme* and *Richard Dawkins*)

Why bother.. i could google anything and get scientists who agree on both sides of every issue. Global warming, using ethanol for gasoline, whether a bomb or a plane flew into the pentagon.. so how can there be 2 opposite truths to all of those? Let me give you a nice equation here:

The fact that everyone knows you are obsessively negatively biased against christianity

+

Anything you try to tell me about christianity

=

something i'm not going to take too seriously. If you actually get a sound head on your shoulders, maybe i'll take you MORE seriously on the subject.

How could a scientist PROVE religion is a "meme" anyway... you can't PROVE that God is NOT around.. and you can't prove he IS around... Why can't we just say we don't know? Some people have such a bone to pick that they have to go and try to piss everyone off... i hate egoists.


Ok.

You see it as "good". It can takes forms that are both "good" and "bad".

Whether it is "good" or not does not detract from the fact that it is not grounded in objective reality. It is an irrational beleif.

If it was so irrational how could it continually produce such positive results?

Sometimes you just gotta say "the proof is in the puddin'"

Your post wouldn't have had a point if you hadn't distorted what he had said.

You are wrong.

I think I will. Where's Lionel?

I would never sue Captain Kirk.

Its obvious to see what the main messages from the bible are.. i don't think God wants you to rape women just because some women were described as raped in the bible somewhere.

What about the direct commands? Like not wearing clothes made from two different types of cloth? How about being able to sell your daughter into slavery?

I noticed you had to twist what I said into something about "raping women" even though that wasn't what I was talking about... but Dark didn't jump all over you for it... how typical. :rolleyes:

I would never sue Captain Kirk.Yeah, I hear his lawyer is Denny Crane. :eek:

You are wrong.
You were exaggerating what he'd said so you could say that not everything in the Bible was historical. If you hadn't implied that he'd said "the whole thing" was recording history, then you would have just been agreeing with him.