http://www.buzzflash.com/editorial/03/07/28.html

......And how many times can you get Americans to listen to the dumbfounding revelation that Bush and Condi were warned of large scale Al-Qaeda hijackings in August of 2001, but claimed they never thought about planes being flown into buildings? (As BuzzFlash has pointed out on several occasions, this is a blatantly idiotic excuse. If Bush had done anything to prevent just "your old average hijackings" in August of 2001, he probably would have prevented the hijackings that resulted in the destruction of the World Trade Center and a wing of the Pentagon. But our media proved themselves even dumber than Bush and Condi -- and thought that her excuse MADE SENSE!)....

And how dare anyone question why the remains of Saddam's sons should suddenly show up the week that the report on 9/11 is issued or during a period when Bush was on the ropes for lying. And how dare anyone ask why the Bush Cartel wouldn't want to try and actually capture Uday and Qusay to obtain information about WMDs, Iraqi war plans, Iraqi bad guys still at large, the location of their father, information on the "alleged" relationship with Al-Qaeda, and so on. Wouldn't they potentially provide the mother lode of information to corroborate all the Bush cartel claims about why Bush led our young men and women to die in Iraq? Come on now, wouldn't the Saddam sons be able to prove all the Bush accusers and doubters WRONG?

Many questions that will stay unanswered.

Why have Sadams sons killed instead of captured?

Well why would anyone kill anyone ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE SHOOTING AT THEM!!! We told them to come out they choose to shoot, Daaaaa. And don't give me that crap that it was a conspiracy, if it were a conspiracy then we would have killed all the top dogs over there. Plain and simple Sadam's son's were just plain STUPID..............

Conspiracy, maybe not. But a big mistake, sure.

Astrapol
I don't claim to have all the answers. But because I do a vast amount of reading via - reliable sources - as opposed to the Rulling Elite (corporate ) owned self serving sources, I have come a long way to understanding who REALLY benefits when ever we are led into yet another bogus war, - and who REALLY loses.

When you learn who the BIG players are and, how their game is played, you understand why our gov't will NEVER attempt to ferrett out those who sell the raw materials, or the arms, to who ever in the FIRST place - simply because our gov't IS goverened by THOSE very people.
THEY fomented this war, too. And THEY knew they had every thing to lose if Saddams sons got any chance to spill the beans on how David Rockefeller's and the Rothschild's Bank's, via circuitous routes deposited staggerring sums into Swiss accounts for Saddam and Co.

Both Henry Gonzales, and Henry Morgenthaul had all the evidence during Dubya's daddy's tenure, to have Congress request a Special Prosecutor, to investigate. They were denied. Not surprising- since the RE owns and controls the WH and Attorney General , who, all answer to the Rothshilds/Rockefeller led RE.
If you should like to learn how this traitorous back door dealing by the RE is common every day practise, and how it got to be that way, a GREAT book is Jekyl Island, written by G E Griffin.

Along with that... this power outage in NY..... Now that the fascist RE has privatized our water and power delivery systems too, they will waste no time cashing in and stripping us of our income, so we have to work that much longer/ harder just to stay in one place.
Blue Gold - by Clarke and Barlowe - good place to start learning about what they have in store. Also good. Greg Palast's - The Best Democracy Money Can Buy. If we thought they made KILLINGS off wars, and oil - wait till you see what they will do to us with water and power!

I don't know what to think. While I mostly agree with you on this war and most issues, I am not a great fan of "conspiracy theories". Sure many powerful lobbies supported this war, some of which have nbo interest in a public Trial of Saddaům and his sons, but I rather believe in a mix of various interests, ideologies and powers than in a single and "big" explanation behind every event. And also in chance sometimes.
One thing is certain : if the US army really wanted the men alive, they would have made them prisoners. It was just a question of time and time was on their side.
So the question is : at what level has been taken the decision of giving the assualt that led to their death ?
If it has been taken at a low hierarchical level, the conspiracy theory is not valid. But if the soldiers knew that these guys were the sons of Saddam and asked their superiors (political) before killing them… who said "Kill them" ? I would very much to know that. Any idea, someone ?

Are you suggesting the Iraqi idiot's sociopathic offspring ever broke bread with the likes of Rockefeller? Rocke would sooner wallow in pig slop than even allow those cretins near his dogs.

Esfan, I can't say if his sons did or not. But the 2 Henry's can tell you that Saddam DEFINITELY broke bread with Rockie, who Personally went over to visit the man. on at least one occassion. After which time, longtime loyal agent of the RE. Henry Kissinger - whose law firm just so happened to represent the Atlanta based branch of an Italian Rothschilds/Rockefeller owned bank, transferred a minimum of 5 Bill into a Swiss account for Saddam and Co. ( Name of that bank - BNL - or Banque de Nacional Louvre) .
Also another Rothschilds owned Bank in Florida - BCCI was found to have been funding Saddam, and others on the big 'enemies' list, including Noreiga, the Medallion and Cali Drug Cartels, - the entire drug trade industry, period. And of course the equally lucrative and world wide sex trade industries, along with every kind of criminal activity you can think of.

Both the Congressional Henry's had volumes to say about how BCCI in particular was by far the MOST blantantly criminal and corrupt op they had EVER laid eyes on in all their many yrs in public service, as well as how they had never seen a MORE corrupt administration as that of G H Bush.

PS - Understand that ALL administrati
ons are in fact corrupt. And all would be presidents have been bought off long before they even get a chance to utter one word - on soon to be broken promises - to the public.

I forgot the US military has a special drug that they shoot at people that makes them surrender. So anytime the US kills we are just doing it for fun because after all, all are 18 year old men are superhumans. Bullets can't hurt them they should have just walked in and took dumb and dumbers guns. You guys that can sit behind a computer that have never served in the armed forces crack me up, I really wish you guys would join the military forces and show them how to take care of business. Maybe if you were running the world we would all live in a beautifull house with a swimming pool and white picket fence. :rolleyes:

at the first sound of a bullet chacking over their heads they would wet their pants and beg someone else to do the job, damn wussys hypocrits

Do you really think it would take a bullet? More like the first DI jacking them up for improperly marching, long before they are ever permitted to handle a weapon, would make them P all over themselves.

They wouldnt just pee on themselves. Im sure there would be a lot of effort put into an attempt at litigation.

There's nothing a good DI (drill instructor / drill sergeant) loves more than a shit - house lawyer.

Originally posted by es347fan
There's nothing a good DI (drill instructor / drill sergeant) loves more than a shit - house lawyer. I think they are playing your tune Leper.

LOL, Leper is a shit bird isnt he? LOL

Ahhhhh... Now I remember why I didn't re enlist. :rolleyes:

I didn't mean my last post to be the start for bashing. I really ment what I said these guys crack me up they know eveything about war and military and fighting, but they never so much as put on a uniform or probably even held a weapon. They sit behind a computer and put young men and women down for doing a job that they themselfs are too afraid of doing. Then have the nerve to turn around and spit in the faces of the people that are willing to do the job. SAD SAD SAD SAD SAD SAD SAD...... Once again I ask Astro and Willow and whom ever else, if you think you know so much, then join the forces and show us how it is done. It is one thing to talk about the government and how they handle things, it is another to talk about an 18-20 year old that has shoots being fired over his/her head. It's nice that you can sit in your soft recliner and write on a forum how perfect you could handle the situation. Now lets get up off our duff and go out there and show the world how perfect your master plan will work. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to get you to think of how you would have REALLY handled the same situation.

Maddog,

Wars are driven and orchestrated NOT by PATRIOTS, nor for PATRIOTIC reasons - but by PROFITEERS for the sake of profits, and personal gains. Always have been. Always will be.

Maddog - think about this. If we had laws making it a crime - punishable by death - for any individual to make and sell arms for profit, how many people do you think would be in the arms business today?
One of these days, you will surprise the hell out of me by reading Jekyl Island. Very good place to start getting a real education about wars, and why they occur. Certainy has nothing to do with any boggie men coming to get us. Or us having to march in and free some people from evil tyrants. Those are just the lies that have worked so well through the ages, and which we continue to accept without ever giving a single thought to the obvious. Namely, that, if war didn't pay some people really really well, the business would have dried up long, long ago.

willow...go join the military, any branch will do.

IF its the same lie for all of human history, is it really a lie?

A lie is a lie is a lie - through all times and ages.
And business is businness.

but nothing you believe in is a lie, even you believe your conspiracy crap.

Mad dog, I personally would never join the US army, I don't feel like being a slave and being ordered to kill innocents. You are dreaming if you think that just because somebody wont join the largest terrorist organization on the planet, and then speaks out against it is a hypocrite.

A war is for profit, weither that profit be for land or money. Liberation must come from within, if the people don't know how to organize themselves to overthrow a dictatorship, then obviously they wont be able to organize any form of a government. So, organizing a war to "liberate" another country is impossible, they wont be able to create a government, you'd have to do it for them, and how exactly is that liberating?

IF its the same lie for all of human history, is it really a lie?
So, just because you have lived with it your entire life, it's the truth? To the man who grew up knowing that gravity was a force, and a mysticall force that just held all of the planets in motion, well, that was a lie, and was proved wrong, just because they grew up with it, doesn't mean it is true. Doesn't mean that relativity is true, doesn't mean that whatever religion you choose it true, doesn't mean that whatever politics spew out of ANYBODY'S mouth is true. If it isn't true, then it is a "lie" weither or not somebody knew it. We have "worse" lies, ones that are told when somebody knows that it is wrong, while those lies are worse at face value, the accepted one to all is worse overall. A lie told time and time again untill everybody accepts it is still a lie. "Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." - Adolf Hitler.

but nothing you believe in is a lie, even you believe your conspiracy crap.
It might be a lie, it might not, don't immediately brand it as wrong without looking into it, don't call it "conspiracy crap" if you don't have the time or care to look into your life.

I personally would never join the US army, I don't feel like being a slave and being ordered to kill innocents.

Yes Blib, I'm sure that's exactly why everyone joins the army. They cannot wait to be slaves and kill innocent people. You should realize that when you make asinine statements like this, all of your credibility is lost. Maybe you're just trying to sound cool? Or maybe you tried for the US army yourself and dropped out because it was too tough and are now resentful? Whatever your reason is for trying to make people that join the armed services sound stupid, in my eyes, it makes you look like a coward.

You know what I totally do not understand about people like Blib? They act like everything America does is wrong, and they slam public servants but then you look and see where they live, and guess what?

The M.F.'s a resident of Florida. Why do people like you live in the U.S.? If thing are done so miserably here, why don't you move to Canada? That further reduces your credibility, since you seem to have such a low opinion of the U.S. government, yet you feed on it, like a baby on a mother's breast.

A. He's too young to join the military
B. He's too young to move to Canada without his parents
C. He has every right to believe what he does. Unfortunately, I would disagree with the statement he made. U.S. soldiers usually don't kill the innocent, but he has a good point that he COULD be ordered to fight against someone who is fighting for similar reasons to his own: Protection of homeland, Belief in a certain system, etc. U.S. soldiers don't usually like to kill at all... they do it out of necessity most of the time. When the bullets are flying, you bet your ass you are going to fire back. But if he doesn't want to put himself in that position, then I say it's commendatory. The military just is NOT right for everyone, I don't care how many people think it should be manditory to all our young adults. (and that's coming from a former Marine, Blib ;))

Originally posted by mad dog
These guys crack me up they know eveything about war and military and fighting, but they never so much as put on a uniform or probably even held a weapon. (…)

Don't get mad at me mad dog (:D )
I never prentended to be a specialist of military things. That is precisely why I asked if anybody more experienced than I am could explain at what hierarchical level a decision such as giving the assault of the Hussein bros was taken.

It is one thing to talk about the government and how they handle things, it is another to talk about an 18-20 year old that has shoots being fired over his/her head.

I agree. I do not blame the average american soldier for anything. I would just like to understand how things are decided.
I just think the US army has enough experience and technology to capture 2 men and a 14 years old boy in a house withoyt killing them.
Did they really have to fire rockets at them ? War is over in Iraq: soldiers were hunting these guys, not trying to take a strategic place or to protect from an assault. Could not they use non lethal weapons such as gas, or just wait until the guys were starving and exhausted ? I do not pretend to know enough to give the answer, I am just asking. You are probably in a much better position to answer, so could you give me your personal appreciation of how things probably happened on the field ?

The Iraqi idiot's sons could have stopped shooting at any point and surrendered. They should have realized that 2 men & a boy taking on a US infantry force is a losing proposition, and the US troops weren't going to back off one little bit as long as there was any shooting going on.

Refer to the 10 rules of gunfighting, especially #5:

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice.

3. Only hits count.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you 're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

5. Keep shooting until the threat no longer exists; then stay sharp until somebody with a badge tells you to freeze.

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gun fight, bring a long gun and a friend.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting you should be reloading or running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Originally posted by es347fan
The Iraqi idiot's sons could have stopped shooting at any point and surrendered. They should have realized that 2 men & a boy taking on a US infantry force is a losing proposition, and the US troops weren't going to back off one little bit as long as there was any shooting going on.

Sure. But the question is : was it possible to take them alive ?

At the very moment in time during which this event occured, probably not. From a vantage point several thousand miles away, and a few weeks later, probably so.

Well said es. Astro I am not getting mad at you I do get upset when people turn around and say this or that should have been done. None of us where there during that moment I'm almost positive that the U.S. troops would have much rather have taken dumb and dumber hostage then shoot them. The world likes to make our troops look like redneck cowboys that run around shooting at anything that moves. This could not be further from the truth, these are young men/women that are just as afraid of fighting as anyone else. Most of these youngsters thought they were in the military to get a GI bill, not go to war. Because they did take an oath and signed on the dotted they did there job. I have 2 brother in laws that are in the service neither one of them wanted to go over there but they did, and they did there job, and the Iraqi's were glad to see them. They did not like the war but they did like seeing young children with smiles on there faces and hopefully a chance for a future. What ever stupid conspiracy theorys people want to say are happing is fine. BUT the true story of it is that we did help alot of people and alot were children. As far as the actual killing of Sadams sons I doubt there was much else they could have done at that moment with those circumstances. When someone is shooting bullets at you it is hard to say well......lets see.......what should I do....... It was either our troops or them what would you have said if they killed that patrol and got away? Would you be saying well they should have taken the U.S. troops hostage? I don't understand why there are so many bleeding hearts out there ready to help COLD BLOODED KILLERS. These to jacka**es got what they deserved they will no longer be able to terrorize people ever again. I am proud of my fellow vet's and think they did a good job. They are going to have to live the rest of there lifes thinking about who they killed and why. There own conscious will beat them up enough without a bunch of idiots putting them down for what that did. I'm sure they themselfs have sat down and said what else could I have done HIND SIGHT IS ALWAYS 20/20.

Oh puhleez! If the US military wanted to have these 2 captured alive they could have done so. Any one ever hear of the cover of darkness, pulling the plug on ones lights, smoke bombs, tear gas lobbed from inside bullet proof tanks? choppers?
Let me point out the obvious, as well. By extinguishing saddam's sons, the miltary also extinguished the best bargaining chips they could have asked for.
But hey...so long as no one is left standing to tell the truth, the longer this war gets to rage, the more lucre rolls into the pockets of the IMF, WB, FED owned Bechtels, Haliburtons etc - who are the only winners in any given war, they give us.
Eisenhower wasn't just blowing smoke when he warned the nation to "beware, the military/industrial complex." Neither was Franklin, Jefferson, Madison and others who foretold that we would end up bankrupt and in debt forever to the robber barons/ carpet baggers if they were to form their central bank monopoly, and get their greasy palms on our money/economy. - which they finally managed to do by 1913.
If any of you took the time to learn the first TRUE thing about our nations history, you would know why we are constantly embroiled in some war or other, and why $ being allocated to the military/militia knows no limits.
How bloody long has their war on drugs raged now? 40 yrs and counting? How much money has come out of our pockets for THAT war? Have we won it yet? Can we stop spending any more, so we can have some money in the kitty to pay pensioners what they are entitled to. So we can just give our citizens a national healthcare system they can afford? Or decent schools, for our kids.
Hell no!
Why?
Cause every thing we have been fed about the great american dream is a lie. Beginning with why we pay income taxes, and whose pockets that money ends up in.
If any of you like, I can even hunt up the gov't web site that gives the address of where you can send money to help pay down the national debt.
Funny part is- it's not the address for the US FED or the US Treasury? Hmm?
But then the IRS isn't a branch of the US gov't either, but the gestappo collection arm of the ruling elite who control our nations gov't and purse strings, who created our astronomical ND, and who have made themselves wealthy beyond all belief selling us all the lies and wars we care to buy into.

Whatever,....... I think you have been watching alittle to much late night TV. Don't forget all the government people are really lizards in human outfits.

WTO, NFTAA, CFR.

Okay, what the heck. Here's the address of the non US gov't entity that calls itself just the TREASURY who we owe our huge Debt to and where you can all send your contributions to, to help pay down our "Public Debt. " Can't call themselves the " Treasury Dept of THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT - cause US Gov't agency they ain't.
******************************

4.2) How do you make a contribution to reduce the debt? Please follow these important steps to make a contribution to reduce the debt.

1. Make check payable to the "Bureau of the Public Debt"
2. In the memo section of the check, make sure you write "Gift to reduce the Debt Held by the Public "
3. Mail check to -

ATTN DEPT G
BUREAU OF THE PUBLIC DEBT
P O BOX 2188
PARKERSBURG, WV 26106-2188
y2004/budget.html[/url]

Return to Table of Contents
www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdfaq.htm#opdtoc

How the heck did you go from some young kids doing a job, to the national dept. You are getting things mixed up. Astro asked a very good question I tried to explain the way I see it. You conspiracy wacks really like twisting things. I suppose every time something bad happens to you it is the government fault? Well I don't really care what your answer is, this debate was about why these KIDS did what they did at that moment.

Like I have said before you know all the answers, so get off your a** and straighten out the country. You know you won't because your full of sh**. Quit running around whinning and do something, if you truely believe what you type then start typing to someone that can help you in your quest to save us from the planet of the apes.

hey Willow, STFU, or Janet Reno is going to send some jack-booted thugs to your house and ship you off to live with Eliean gonzales.

Hey Trav, since you have it in so bad for the French, why haven't you petitioned your patriot prez to return their Statue of Liberty - which would more fittingly be renamed - the Statue of Colossal Hypocrisy.
I guess it never occurred to you that the LIBERTY to make ones (own) choices is what TRUE American democracy stands for. So why hate on the French for acting like TRUE americans?
Oh. And - lets not forget that Janet Reno was the closet nazi - who along with the other closet nazi's in DC - sanctioned the incineration of american babies in Waco.
Trav, you seriously need to take the blinders off and look at what kind of gov't we have which can committ such unspeakable acts against our very own children before you go condemning others who would just as soon not support our hypocritical and downright nazist policies.