No.

Only a person with extremely poor reading comprehension would suggest that I was "kidding".




I'll TELL you how it should be interpreted. Exactly for what it said.

For your first clue, I invite you to examine the last two words of Jester's statement that you just posted.

Big deal? Was there a reason that dharma could have refuted that (perhaps with things that he does for this country?), or maybe just taken the high road and ignored it, instead of insulting Trav and calling him indifferent towards the well-being of the country?

Seems to be a pattern around here.


A pattern? Possibly, but I'm reasonably certain that if their is a pattern, it's not for the reason you think it is.

Big deal? Was there a reason that dharma could have refuted that (perhaps with things that he does for this country?), or maybe just taken the high road and ignored it, instead of insulting Trav and calling him indifferent towards the well-being of the country?


Try to understand this Dark. It was a cheap attempt to change the subject and was not worthy of a response from me.

Yet you continue to fall for (and defend) his cheap trick.

A pattern? Possibly, but I'm reasonably certain that if their is a pattern, it's not for the reason you think it is.

I am reasonably certain you are wrong and I am right.

Try to understand this Dark. It was a cheap attempt to change the subject and was not worthy of a response from me.

Yet you continue to fall for (and defend) his cheap trick.

I did not fall for it, nor did I defend it. Didn't you just quote my post where I said you should have ignored it?

The Brownshirts are coming! Page-3

Now to be retitled: The dhrama is running!

I am reasonably certain you are wrong and I am right.

Yep, that's the problem in a nutshell dharma. You make observations, others insult you. You aren't making a "cheap attempt to change the subject", you make "relevant" responses to others.

The reason you felt "piled-on" is because you come across as pompous, condescending, and at times just plain rude. When someone holds their own in a debate with you, you resort to whining about their debating stlye, and referring to them as "cheap", "sophmoric [sic]", and other denigrating comments. The fact is dharma that we have some very intelligent posters here, several more intelligent than you, and you would do well to keep that in mind. But hey, that's just my opinion. :)

I did not fall for it, nor did I defend it.

Post #66 certainly looks like you are.

Let me get this straight Vilepagan, other posters get away with all sorts of things but it is my "rudeness" that bothers you?

Posters like Brooks, Decka and Trav get away with being "pompous, condescending, and at times just plain rude" all the time without a peep from you.

Posters like Evakian can make frickin death threats and again, not a peep out of you.

But god forbid that I should be rude back to those people who do it to me.

I came here and made every attempt to be civil but it quickly became apparent that rudeness is the norm here, not the exception.

I see no reason I should be held to different standards.
If I ignored everyone on here who was rude, I wouldn't have anyone left to talk to.

Let me get this straight Vilepagan, other posters get away with all sorts of things but it is my "rudeness" that bothers you?

Posters like Brooks, Decka and Trav get away with being "pompous, condescending, and at times just plain rude" all the time without a peep from you.

Posters like Evakian can make frickin death threats and again, not a peep out of you.

But god forbid that I should be rude back to those people who do it to me.

I came here and made every attempt to be civil but it quickly became apparent that rudeness is the norm here, not the exception.

I see no reason I should be held to different standards.
If I ignored everyone on here who was rude, I wouldn't have anyone left to talk to.

You must be kidding me... Vile is one of the most concerned mods. I know for a fact that he's warned Evakian about the rude posts, and probably all the others as well.

I think the problem is that you can dish it out but you can't take it. Just an observation.

Oh and please don't assume that I'm "jumping all over you" or whatever it is you always like to say to me when I give my opinion. I do believe you're an intelligent person with logical views (on actual issues) that I pretty much always respect, even if I don't agree with you. However, I've noticed that you do not hold yourself to the same standards as to others, in general. You complain about others insulting you, while insulting them or making snide comments about their intelligence. You're guilty of just as many slightly dishonest (for lack of a better word) debating tactics. I am NOT dissing this at all, because I think you have to be shrewd to win an argument, and use rhetorical methods during a debate that might not be completely factual, but you really should stop whining about it when others do it.

Posters like Evakian can make frickin death threats and again, not a peep out of you.
where?:corn:

You must be kidding me...

Not in the least. I guess it is partly my fault for expecting too much.
After being here for a while I am seeing that it is hard to avoid becoming "rude" on here when everyone else is being so rude to me.

where?:corn:

I don't remember exactly what thread it was on, but it is the reason I put him on ignore.

where?:corn:
Vile removed my post. 'Tis why dharma has me on his "ignore list" now.

Man, was it worth it.

Not in the least. I guess it is partly my fault for expecting too much.
After being here for a while I am seeing that it is hard to avoid becoming "rude" on here when everyone else is being so rude to me.

I thought you were rude immediately when you got here. From your second post:

In other words, you have nothing and you know it.

Thanks for playing the role of punching bag.

Now if that's nice, civil behavior, well then I don't even want to know how you are when you TRY to be rude.

How dare you post the same message before me. I will give you xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx you pig.
you call that a threat? i've gotten worse from my mom in Christmas cards:banana:

Sorry to burst your bubble Dark but my second post was, in fact:

I am sorry to report that your best guess would be wrong.

Vile removed my post. 'Tis why dharma has me on his "ignore list" now.

Man, was it worth it.
damn! all i've ever gotten out of my posts are the odd visit from the Feds:(

Sorry to burst your bubble Dark but my second post was, in fact:

Hmm... I guess it doesn't show your posts in order when I click on "all posts by this user". Well anyways it was a post pretty early on.

i've gotten worse from my mom in Christmas cards

No doubt you have....but then, she is very familiar with what sort of person you are.

I would go on a tirade about how I would....... But that would take too much typing.
you shouldn't be mean to animals....unless it followed him home, i doubt it had much say in who it associates with:(

No doubt you have....but then, she is very familiar with what sort of person you are.
yet she still sends me a Christmas card...it's good to be loved:D

it's a pity you ridicule the foundation of the concept-sucks to be you.

yet she still sends me a Christmas card...it's good to be loved:D

it's a pity you ridicule the foundation of the concept-sucks to be you.

Does her Christmas Cards contain more of her threats?
Is that your idea of "love"?

Does her Christmas Cards contain more of her threats?
Is that your idea of "love"?
it's only a threat if you fear it, dharmaqueen.


i wanted to call you a chicken shit, but i thought it insulting to fowl.

it's only a threat if you fear it, dharmaqueen.


i wanted to call you a chicken shit, but i thought it insulting to fowl.

That was uncalled for. A little more civility? :flowers: Pretty please?

it's only a threat if you fear it, dharmaqueen.


i wanted to call you a chicken shit, but i thought it insulting to fowl.

I would point out how uncivil and immature your post is, but I am likely to get attacked for it.

That was uncalled for. A little more civility? :flowers: Pretty please?
ok, i can't say anything nice to him, so i won't say anything at all....today.

ok, i can't say anything nice to him,

You could try... for a change.

See, dharma, I defended you and you didn't even pay attention. When I support you, you don't care, but when I disagree with you, you accuse me of being mean. :(

See, dharma, I defended you and you didn't even pay attention. When I support you, you don't care, but when I disagree with you, you accuse me of being mean. :(
i want to say something supportive, but everything is coming out of my fingertips as being not so nice about you know who:(

Chavez is a socialist politician. He is at the other end of the spectrum from Hitler.

Hitler was a Fascist, in that he ceaselessly promoted a fanatical degree of nationalism, devotion to supremacy of the military, disdain for human rights of people in other nations, control over the dissemination of information, the ceaseless protection of Corporate power, and obsession with national security.

Bush is a kinder-gentler breed of Fascist, but still, a Fascist......and he exhibits exactly the same traits and ideology common to Fascism that Hitler exhibited.


Hope that clears it up for you, Einstein.
I think it is wise to lay off referring to modern leaders as "fascist." This is mere name-calling and discredits the name caller as someone unreasonable in their approach.

While I agree that Chavez is not a fascist, your reason (that he is a socialist) doesn't stand scrutiny. The NAZI's were "socialist" too. Also, "fascist" implies an attitude more than a policy.

I think calling Bush a fascist is little short of ludicrous. He is not anything like Hitler. He has no storm troopers, does not advocate discrimination against minorities (not even American Muslims) and has a pro-democratic agenda. Most important, he is not trying to undermine the electoral process that will put him out of power in a couple years.

It is helpful to criticize and question any politician's policies; it is not helpful to throw out almost meaningless epithets.

Let me get this straight Vilepagan, other posters get away with all sorts of things but it is my "rudeness" that bothers you?

Nope. Your rudeness doesn't particularly bother me.


Posters like Brooks, Decka and Trav get away with being "pompous, condescending, and at times just plain rude" all the time without a peep from you.

I don't consider any of them pompous, and Brooks is rarely rude. Trav and Decka have both been admonished for rudeness in the past.


Posters like Evakian can make frickin death threats and again, not a peep out of you.

Wrong again. Evakian's post was clearly out of line and it was removed.


But god forbid that I should be rude back to those people who do it to me.

If you say so.


I came here and made every attempt to be civil but it quickly became apparent that rudeness is the norm here, not the exception.

I can't agree with that.


I see no reason I should be held to different standards.

I don't either.


If I ignored everyone on here who was rude, I wouldn't have anyone left to talk to.

Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration.

Because it was a cheap attempt to change the subject instead of addressing any points I made.

It was an example of "attack the messenger" because they don't like the message.Yes, you made such a killer argument that I was simply left dumbfounded. :rolleyes:

Seriously, stop flattering yourself. I WAS addressing the point you made. You said Trav was indifferent towards his country and cannot claim to be an American, and my reply implied that you were wrong about that. It's a little ridiculous to claim that someone is indifferent about about the country whose flag he wore into combat, especially Trav whose posts here show anything but indifference. I also implied that you have no right to accuse him of indifference since, as I stated, he's probably done more for the country than you have or ever will do. And since you've been unable to prove otherwise, I stand by that statement.

Additionally, just because someone disagrees with you on what's important for the country doesn't mean that he's indifferent towards the country. You'd think that that was a no-brainer, but apparently it's not.

See, dharma, I defended you and you didn't even pay attention.

I saw it.

Thank you.

:)

He has no storm troopers,

We will see what happens after he gets his "Volunteer Civilian Reserve Force".

does not advocate discrimination against minorities (not even American Muslims)

Apparently you don't consider stripping them of their rights to be discrimination. Apparently, being picked up for a "suspicion" of crime, jailed indefinately without being charged, being denied access to a lawyer and in some cases being tortured, all because they are arabic, doesn't count as discrimination.

If the "war on terror" isn't being waged is a racist and discriminatory way, then Demetrius Crocker would have been treated just like Jose Padilla.

The reality is, he was not.


and has a pro-democratic agenda.

He is quite supportive... unless the people of a nation vote in someone he dislikes, like Hamas, then he labels them a "terrorist regime". That doesn't scream "pro-democracy" to anybody who is listening.


Most important, he is not trying to undermine the electoral process that will put him out of power in a couple years.

I will give you that one. He doesn't seem to be... so far.
That said, I do disagree with the outsourcing of electoral duties to private, for-profit firms like Choicepoint, Inc. or Diebold. Elections should be run by the government and our votes should be counted by the government, not private firms. I am not blaming Bush for this, but it is a trend I do not like.

You (dharmbum) said Trav was indifferent towards his country and cannot claim to be an American

BZZZZZZZZZT.

Wrong.

That is flat out false.

He did say that Trav seemed indifferent, he did NOT assert that Trav ""cannot claim to be an American"".

Ahhh...........the joy of progress.

We have finally moved from --

""Trav has done far more his country than you ever will"" to .....................

he (Trav) has probably done more for the country than you have or ever will do.

BZZZZZZZZZT.

Wrong.

That is flat out false.

He did say that Trav seemed indifferent, he did NOT assert that Trav ""cannot claim to be an American"".

This is what he said:
YAWN!!!

I don't get how you can claim to be an American yet be so indifferent towards what happens in your own country. You seem to care more about what happens in a South American country you have never been to and will never go to.

He may not have "asserted" that Trav can't claim to be an American, but he certainly implied it.

He may not have "asserted" that Trav can't claim to be an American, but he certainly implied it.

Wrong.

He in no way implied it.

Expressing incredulity (which is exactly what the phrase --""I don't get how you can claim to be an American yet be so indifferent...."" does)--- over somone having done something once is far different than mandating that that person be barred from doing it.

If my son, in my presence, says something extremely disrespectful to my wife, I might be moved to say to him --""I don't know how you can speak that way to your Mother!"

It would NOT in any way imply that I want my son to be forever barred from speaking to his mother again...............nor does it imply that I want my son to be forever barred from claiming his mother as his mother.

He may not have "asserted" that Trav can't claim to be an American, but he certainly implied it.


Please do not attempt to put words in my mouth.

Thank you.

Nope. Your rudeness doesn't particularly bother me.
The only poster here who gets to Vile, is of course, me. I dunno if its just cause he's old and crotchety, is nursing a secret crush on me, or just gets a Samuel L. Jackson style hard-on for laying down the law on me, but, rest assured, he isn't bothered much by you, dharma.

The only poster here who gets to Vile, is of course, me. I dunno if its just cause he's old and crotchety, is nursing a secret crush on me, or just gets a Samuel L. Jackson style hard-on for laying down the law on me, but, rest assured, he isn't bothered much by you, dharma.

You are so conceited. :corn:

Don't you just love it? :D

Wrong.

He in no way implied it.


I disagree.

Please do not attempt to put words in my mouth.

Thank you.

I didn't. I quoted you verbatim.

And you're welcome.

I didn't. I quoted you verbatim.


Actually, you did.

You quoted me and then put words in my mouth claiming I tried to "infer" something I did not, in fact, say.

Actually, you did.

Actually I didn't.


You quoted me and then put words in my mouth claiming I tried to "infer" something I did not, in fact, say.

Incorrect. I said you "implied" something. Check a dictionary for the definitions of "imply" and "infer". You may not have intended to imply anything, but that's how it came across. Since you have yet to apologize if you unintentionally implied something, all anyone can assume is that you stand by the implication. I'm not the only one who made this inference. That's the reason many people have been giving you flak in this thread. If you didn't intend to imply anything, just say so and we can move on. If you keep denying that you implied anything, intentionally or not, I doubt many (besides FT) will buy it.

If you didn't intend to imply anything, just say so and we can move on.

I didn't intend to "imply" anything.

Now move on.

Thank you.

If you keep denying that you implied anything, intentionally or not, I doubt many (besides FT) will buy it.

Which is it? Will you people move on or not?

Well, your response (too lengthy to replicate here--message 135) indicates that you are determined to find a way to label Bush a fascist.

Keep in mind that when you say "fascist," you cannot have your own personal definition, but must understand that the word implies brutal dictatorship, predjudice, superstition, anti-Semitism, chauvinistic arrogance, and, of course, WWII and the Holocaust.

Well, your response (too lengthy to replicate here--message 135) indicates that you are determined to find a way to label Bush a fascist.

Keep in mind that when you say "fascist," you cannot have your own personal definition, but must understand that the word implies brutal dictatorship, predjudice, superstition, anti-Semitism, chauvinistic arrogance, and, of course, WWII and the Holocaust.

They must be seeing things... i mean, the way they describe America you would think we would have "thought police" or there would be cameras in our homes, and big brother would be watching you.

The truth is that exaggerating things doesn't make a point any more sustainable.

Because it was a cheap attempt to change the subject instead of addressing any points I made.That may very well be. In fact, if that was your first response to Jester, people may have agreed with you and defended you.
Instead, you gave a nasty two word response which plainly stated that you have done more for your country than Trav has. You left yourself wide open to be questioned about it. Your refusal to answer is what sidetracked this thread.

If you're nice to people, you can leave yourself open like that and get away with it.
If you're not nice, you have to be more careful.

You are, apparently, a tragic combination of unlikable* and not careful.

This is my last post on this subject.

*At least in the context of AllForums. You may be a real sweet guy in real life.

Because it was a cheap attempt to change the subject instead of addressing any points I made.
That may very well be. In fact, if that was your first response to Jester, people may have agreed with you and defended you.For the last friggin time, I was not trying to change the subject to avoid any points that dharmabum made. He made a comment about another poster that I thought was ridiculous, and that was what I addressed. Threads go off on tangents like that all the time, and it's usually not because people are reluctant or unable to respond to previous posts.

But if any of you want to continue to think I was being "cheap" then go right ahead. I really don't give a fuck.

But if any of you want to continue to think I was being "cheap" then go right ahead. I really don't give a fuck.If anyone should take the 'blame' for changing the subject it's dharma. You were responding directly to remarks he made. Threads go off on tangents all the time -- usually when someone says something objectionable.

If anyone should take the 'blame' for changing the subject it's dharma.

Like that'll ever happen. He doesn't seem the type.

Instead, you gave a nasty two word response which plainly stated that you have done more for your country than Trav has.

That is a lie.

I said no such thing.

I said that Jester's comment was "bull shit". Period.

YOU are the one conflating that into value judgements about how much other people have done. That is all you.

Will you, for once, quit trying to put words in my mouth? Please and thank you.

If anyone should take the 'blame' for changing the subject it's dharma.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

Because Jester never changed the subject... :rolleyes:

Like that'll ever happen. He doesn't seem the type.

The type to take the "blame" for something I didn't do?

You are damn right I am not that type!

If you want a patsy go look for Scooter Libby.

Well, your response (too lengthy to replicate here--message 135) indicates that you are determined to find a way to label Bush a fascist.

Keep in mind that when you say "fascist," you cannot have your own personal definition, but must understand that the word implies brutal dictatorship, predjudice, superstition, anti-Semitism, chauvinistic arrogance, and, of course, WWII and the Holocaust.

Actually, if you reread what I posted, I never used the word "fascist" once.
(I did use "Racist" if you wish to discuss a word I actually did use)

I simply addressed the facts about what Bush has done.

Nothing more.

They must be seeing things... i mean, the way they describe America you would think we would have "thought police" or there would be cameras in our homes, and big brother would be watching you.

The truth is that exaggerating things doesn't make a point any more sustainable.

Twisting what someone else says and ignoring the truth under your nose doesn't make a point any less valid.

That is a lie.

I said no such thing.

I said that Jester's comment was "bull shit". Period.

YOU are the one conflating that into value judgements about how much other people have done. That is all you.

Will you, for once, quit trying to put words in my mouth? Please and thank you.
You're problem here dharma, is that you seem to think you are capable of clear communication free from un-intentioned implications. Now excuse me, I need to go stock up on ten-dollar words.

You're problem here dharma, is that you seem to think you are capable of clear communication free from un-intentioned implications. Now excuse me, I need to go stock up on ten-dollar words.

What I don't understand is why some people cannot simply address what I actually say without coming up with all sorts of unrelated nonsense that they believe I "implied".

I find it very funny that Brooks has this as part of his signature since this is precisely what he and Jester attempted to do to me.

"If you have to exaggerate my point to make me wrong, you've already given up."

That should have been my sole response to Jester's nonsensical claim in the first place.

Actually, if you reread what I posted, I never used the word "fascist" once.
(I did use "Racist" if you wish to discuss a word I actually did use)

I simply addressed the facts about what Bush has done.

Nothing more.

When a poster titles his thread with the word "Brownshirts" aka SA, other posters can only assume he means something along the lines of the National Socialist German Worker's Party, who were fascists.

It's quite simple. What you are writing, and what other people are reading, are of grand necessity two totally different things. You may think you are writing clearly and concisely, but you leave your words open to all kinds of interpretations.

Two word answers like, "bull shit," leave everything else to the imagination. A person has to fill the narrative void created by your lack of additional info. If you're not very good at reading what people are likely to think you implied, this kind of problem will rear its ugly head again and again.

When a poster titles his thread with the word "Brownshirts" aka SA, other posters can only assume he means something along the lines of the National Socialist German Worker's Party, who were fascists.

Now I am just confused as to what post you are actually responding to.

It's quite simple. What you are writing, and what other people are reading, are of grand necessity two totally different things. You may think you are writing clearly and concisely, but you leave your words open to all kinds of interpretations.

Two word answers like, "bull shit," leave everything else to the imagination. A person has to fill the narrative void created by your lack of additional info. If you're not very good at reading what people are likely to think you implied, this kind of problem will rear its ugly head again and again.

As I said my only response to that should have been (and will be from now on)

"If you have to exaggerate my point to make me wrong, you've already given up."

Well, your response (too lengthy to replicate here--message 135) indicates that you are determined to find a way to label Bush a fascist.

Keep in mind that when you say "fascist," you cannot have your own personal definition, but must understand that the word implies brutal dictatorship, predjudice, superstition, anti-Semitism, chauvinistic arrogance, and, of course, WWII and the Holocaust.


So let me get this straight, nobody is ever allowed to use the word "fascist" again because it "implies" WW2?

You pointed out various things you thought Bush has to be doing to be labeled a "fascist" and I pointed out that he is, in fact, doing some of the things you listed.

So, if you already admitted that you miscommunicated, what the fuck are we still discussing this for?

Move on, move on. Talk about something else. Me, preferably.

Now I am just confused as to what post you are actually responding to.

for god's sakes dharma, you CREATED this thread and entitled it!

... and a closed mind.

Ever heard of Habeus Corpus?
OMG...

You've been jailed illegally??? As in, like, without being charged? That's happening to Americans now!? Oh boy, I'd say it's time to move...

Either that, or maybe you should hire an attorney and petition the court next time. You'd have a prime lawsuit.

Words have meanings, and they also have implications. The "trick" that you use is define a word in a limited way, so that you can justify using it when pressed, ignoring the fact that the very presence of the word implies so much more.

This is, I have to be honest with you, a rather unfortunate propaganda tactic.

Maybe I can produce a similar tactic used by the extreme right, when they labeled Clinton an adulterer (well, of course, he was an adulterer in a sense, so it could be justified, but it was a misrepresentation of the reality and a smear).

To say someone is a "facist," even if you define it narrowly, is a slander. The label is remembered but your quimble is forgotten.

Words have meanings, and they also have implications. The "trick" that you use is define a word in a limited way, so that you can justify using it when pressed, ignoring the fact that the very presence of the word implies so much more.

This is, I have to be honest with you, a rather unfortunate propaganda tactic.

Maybe I can produce a similar tactic used by the extreme right, when they labeled Clinton an adulterer (well, of course, he was an adulterer in a sense, so it could be justified, but it was a misrepresentation of the reality and a smear).

To say someone is a "facist," even if you define it narrowly, is a slander. The label is remembered but your quimble is forgotten.

Absolutely superb.

OMG...

You've been jailed illegally??? As in, like, without being charged? That's happening to Americans now!? Oh boy, I'd say it's time to move...

Either that, or maybe you should hire an attorney and petition the court next time. You'd have a prime lawsuit.

Do you seriously deny that it has happened to American citizens?

To say someone is a "facist," even if you define it narrowly, is a slander.

Only if it is untrue.

That said, the subject of this thread was really just a joke. I was being sarcastic about the slippery slope of eroding liberty we find ourselves on today.

Incorrect. I said you "implied" something. Check a dictionary for the definitions of "imply" and "infer". You may not have intended to imply anything, but that's how it came across. Since you have yet to apologize if you unintentionally implied something, all anyone can assume is that you stand by the implication. I'm not the only one who made this inference. That's the reason many people have been giving you flak in this thread. If you didn't intend to imply anything, just say so and we can move on. If you keep denying that you implied anything, intentionally or not, I doubt many (besides FT) will buy it.
Classic. :)

so if it is as bad as you say it is why dont you do something about it besides piss and moan on allforums.net? Form a militia to take back your country or something. The main reasons no one listens or cares what you and freethinker say is because no matter how bad you say it is the facts are that you are still here and you still have complete freedom to say what you want. the very fact that you can feel safe in calling Bush a fascist and not fear for your life when you go to bed should be all you need to show you he is in fact not Adolf Hitler. So, my suggestions to you if you want anyone to take your fascism rants seriously are this: move to venezuela or cuba and post from there so we know you feared for your life living under nazi rule here in the US, OR, for a militia to take back the country by force from the fascist thugs who are in power now. otherwise, STFU.

Do you seriously deny that it has happened to American citizens?
Sure it's happened. No country's legal system is perfect, and obviously, (and this goes without saying - ) our system doesn't function flawlessly 100% of the time.

The real question is - is detaining American citizens without reason the exception, or is it the rule?

Prae, didnt you know there are no guilty people in prison? Just ask them, they were all framed. 9 times out of 10 it was whitey that framed them.

Form a militia to take back your country or something.

I have a hard time believing that someone who was supposedly in the U.S. military would seriously suggest something as naive as that.


The main reasons no one listens or cares what you and freethinker say is because no matter how bad you say it is the facts are that you are still here and you still have complete freedom to say what you want. the very fact that you can feel safe in calling Bush a fascist and not fear for your life when you go to bed should be all you need to show you he is in fact not Adolf Hitler.

I cannot speak for FT but I know for a fact that I have never said that Bush is Hitler.

To claim that I have is a lie.

Hiter is certainly not the only fascist the world has ever known so even when someone says Bush is fascist they are not saying he is Hitler. That is an extreme exaggeration which purposely twists what is actually being said.

So basicly, you are saying that until things hit rock bottom and are comparible to conditions under the worst regimes in history, only then, are we allowed to speak up and speak out.

Our point is only valid after things have gotten their worst?

Sadly, you are speaking for many apathetic Americans who will sit, just like a Frog in a pot of water, and do nothing until they see the signs of the worst, and of course, as Rev. Martin Niemoller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...) pointed out, by then it is too late.

Sure it's happened. No country's legal system is perfect, and obviously, (and this goes without saying - ) our system doesn't function flawlessly 100% of the time.

The real question is - is detaining American citizens without reason the exception, or is it the rule?

You seem to be missing the point.

Yes, our system is not perfect but it is one of the best systems in the world, when it is allowed to work.

The whole point is that they purposely bypassed the system entirely!

Even if detaining citizens without due process is the exception THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT ALRIGHT!!!

I have a hard time believing that someone who was supposedly in the U.S. military would seriously suggest something as naive as that.


I didn't say I was going to try it, I suggested you odo something about it. Or are you going to march dutifully into the gas chamber like the jews did?


I cannot speak for FT but I know for a fact that I have never said that Bush is Hitler.

To claim that I have is a lie.

Hiter is certainly not the only fascist the world has ever known so even when someone says Bush is fascist they are not saying he is Hitler. That is an extreme exaggeration which purposely twists what is actually being said.

So basicly, you are saying that until things hit rock bottom and are comparible to conditions under the worst regimes in history, only then, are we allowed to speak up and speak out.

Our point is only valid after things have gotten their worst?

Sadly, you are speaking for many apathetic Americans who will sit, just like a Frog in a pot of water, and do nothing until they see the signs of the worst, and of course, as Rev. Martin Niemoller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...) pointed out, by then it is too late.

WTF? If you reference brownshirts you speak of Germany. If I am not mistaken Hitler was the leader of fascist Germany, so by saying brownshirts are coming you mean Bush is Hitler since Hitler was the leader of the brownshirts and Bush is the leader of America, the land that the brownshirts are appearing in.

I didn't say I was going to try it, I suggested you odo something about it. Or are you going to march dutifully into the gas chamber like the jews did?


Sitting around doing and saying nothing seems to be your plan.

You are criticizing me precisely for "doing something", for speaking out whereever and whenever I can. If you think my comments are limited to this one internet message board, you are sadly mistaken.

Is your concept of "doing something" limited to violence?


WTF? If you reference brownshirts you speak of Germany. If I am not mistaken Hitler was the leader of fascist Germany, so by saying brownshirts are coming you mean Bush is Hitler since Hitler was the leader of the brownshirts and Bush is the leader of America, the land that the brownshirts are appearing in.


"If you have to exaggerate my point to make me wrong, you've already given up."

Tell me Trav, will you sign up for the "Volunteer civilian reserve force"?

I guess where I come from flapping your gums doesn't amount to "doing something".
And no, violence isn't my limits when it comes to doing something, but in the case of a fascist dictatorship ruling my life then yes, it probably would be my choice. Lodging a complaint with a fascist is probably no safer then picking up a gun against him.

how many times are you going to steal Brook's sig? If you dont want people bringing up Hitler then dont use the damn Brownshirts as your example of what America is becoming.
And I just got out of the involuntary civilian reserve force not to long ago. I do not know what the voluntary civilian reserve force is, but the day I am forced to volunteer for it I will agree with you about the brownshirts.

I guess where I come from flapping your gums doesn't amount to "doing something".

So true... Too bad FT and dharma think they are making some kind of "sacrafice" by typing in a message forum.

more like we are making a sacrifice coming in here and reading it everyday.

So true... Too bad FT and dharma think they are making some kind of "sacrafice" by typing in a message forum.

I don't know if you do it because you enjoy lying, or if you do it out of cluelessness, but I have never made any claim of making a "sacrafice"......

........OR a sacrifice.

I don't know if you do it because you enjoy lying, or if you do it out of cluelessness, but I have never made any claim of making a "sacrafice"......

........OR a sacrifice.

shows alot about your character if you don't sacrafice anything...

but then again, after listening to you badmouth the hand that feeds you for so long, i wouldn't expect anything less.

I wouldn't want you on my sports team.

Your signature scared me so much, I went and got my own.

heh, heh, heh... thanks!

:matrix:
SMW

I guess where I come from flapping your gums doesn't amount to "doing something".

FYI, Typing and "flapping your gums" are two distinctly different activities.

Incidently, both activities have been sufficiently feared by fasict regimes in the past that those regimes executed people for those activities.

I don't think any reasonable person would consider it "nothing".


And no, violence isn't my limits when it comes to doing something, but in the case of a fascist dictatorship ruling my life then yes, it probably would be my choice. Lodging a complaint with a fascist is probably no safer then picking up a gun against him.

Do you understand the concept of a slippery slope?

Do you understand that the decent from democracy into dictatorship is gradual and doesn't happen overnight?

In light of that, suggesting that someone should wait until the worst has already come before speaking up is patently absurd.



how many times are you going to steal Brook's sig?

As often as I think it is appropriate.



And I just got out of the involuntary civilian reserve force not to long ago.

What is that?

Our military is all-volunteer.


I do not know what the voluntary civilian reserve force is, but the day I am forced to volunteer for it I will agree with you about the brownshirts.

:sigh:

Firstly, if you paid attention and made an effort to comprehend what I say instead of attacking me on instinct, then you would know.

Secondly, If you are "forced" then it ceases to be "voluntary".

I cannot believe I had to explain that to you.

So true... Too bad FT and dharma think they are making some kind of "sacrafice" by typing in a message forum.

Why do you feel the need to make up such transparent lies?

Why do you feel the need to make up such transparent lies?
how can a sincere opinion be a lie?

Yes, our system is not perfect but it is one of the best systems in the world, when it is allowed to work.
On this point, we're in complete agreement.
Even if detaining citizens without due process is the exception THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT ALRIGHT!!!
Have you ever been detained without being Mirandized or formally charged with a crime? Do you know anyone who has? Of course, I'm not saying it's "right". All I'm saying is that (aside from it happening less than .00000000001% of the time - ) it's patently absurd to expect it to work without a hitch 24/7.
The whole point is that they purposely bypassed the system entirely!
Who's "they"? Our government??? If so, then you're probably referring to the whole GITMO conundrum, and if that's indeed the case, then I'll have you know we're not holding "American citizens" incommunicado (or anyone worth worrying about, for that matter). We're holding dirty foreign nationals (read; a primitave form of "people" not from the US or Europe).

OTOH, in general, I'd agree that it's bad practice to hold prisoners without charging them with something, so......

It's my feeling that we should give them a fair trial so we can hang 'em with a clear conscience. Then everyone can go home happy, right?

how can a sincere opinion be a lie?

This isn't opinion. She states this as fact.

It isn't true, so that makes it a lie.

Originally Posted by Decka
So true... Too bad FT and dharma think they are making some kind of "sacrafice" by typing in a message forum.

All I'm saying is that (aside from it happening less than .00000000001% of the time - ) it's patently absurd to expect it to work without a hitch 24/7.

It is patently absurd to expect detaining citizens without due process to work without a hitch EVER.


Who's "they"? Our government???

More specificly, this Administration.


If so, then you're probably referring to the whole GITMO conundrum, and if that's indeed the case, then I'll have you know we're not holding "American citizens" incommunicado (or anyone worth worrying about, for that matter). We're holding dirty foreign nationals (read; a primitave form of "people" not from the US or Europe).

No, I was not referring to Gitmo and I think you already knew that.


OTOH, in general, I'd agree that it's bad practice to hold prisoners without charging them with something, so......

It's my feeling that we should give them a fair trial so we can hang 'em with a clear conscience. Then everyone can go home happy, right?

On this point we agree.

This isn't opinion. She states this as fact.

It isn't true, so that makes it a lie.
"think" is the keyword...no one knows what's going on in that cluster of gravel between your ears...it's subjective, therefore an opinion.

plus Decka's profile states "she" is a male...all this time you've thought you were getting pwned by a chick? that explains why you put up with it!...but you should give up. even if Decka was a gurl, only a liberal one would be stupid enough to sleep with you-and even that would be a stretch.

I don't know what kind of brain malfunction would lead into mistaking Decka for anything other than an addled college male.

I don't know what kind of brain malfunction would require mistaking Decka for anything other than an addled college male.

None. It was a mistake of habit.
His/Her sig says "napsterbater's mother" so I thought he was a she.

None.
I think the jury's still out on that one.

FYI, Typing and "flapping your gums" are two distinctly different activities.

Incidently, both activities have been sufficiently feared by fasict regimes in the past that those regimes executed people for those activities.

I don't think any reasonable person would consider it "nothing".



Do you understand the concept of a slippery slope?

Do you understand that the decent from democracy into dictatorship is gradual and doesn't happen overnight?

In light of that, suggesting that someone should wait until the worst has already come before speaking up is patently absurd.




As often as I think it is appropriate.




What is that?

Our military is all-volunteer.




:sigh:

Firstly, if you paid attention and made an effort to comprehend what I say instead of attacking me on instinct, then you would know.

Secondly, If you are "forced" then it ceases to be "voluntary".

I cannot believe I had to explain that to you.

FYI, Typing and "flapping your gums" are two distinctly different activities.

Incidently, both activities have been sufficiently feared by fasict regimes in the past that those regimes executed people for those activities.

I don't think any reasonable person would consider it "nothing".
Earth to dumb ass! you are in no danger saying anything you want to in this country, as is evident by your countiued exisistance! remove your head from your rear end! If you really wish to live in a fascist society, as it seems you do, I suggest you pack up your shit and move to one.
You are doing nothing by simply exercising a right afforded to you by the country you live in. If you get arrested and exercise your right to remain silent are you somehow "doing something"? no. So by speaking freely in a country thst guarentees free speech you are doing nothing. If you want some sort of pat on the back for dissent go to N. Korea and start talking about little Kim, then you will have my respect. until then you are simply using rights granted you by better men then yourself.

Do you understand the concept of a slippery slope?
oh good! someone who will finally agree with my views on gay marriage! See, slippery slope is a bad word around here, it does not exist.

[quote=dharmabum]Do you understand that the decent from democracy into dictatorship is gradual and doesn't happen overnight?
you mean things like leaders trying to get authority to rule by decree and pass laws granting unlimited re election? I think i know what you mean.

In light of that, suggesting that someone should wait until the worst has already come before speaking up is patently absurd.
The worst? how about anything buy left wing internet theories and checklists indicating when you have officially reached fascism.
As often as I think it is appropriate.
obviously.

What is that?

Our military is all-volunteer.
not for white people.

:sigh:

Firstly, if you paid attention and made an effort to comprehend what I say instead of attacking me on instinct, then you would know.
Secondly, If you are "forced" then it ceases to be "voluntary"
I cannot believe I had to explain that to you.
I guess you have never been "volunteered" for anything.

Earth to dumb ass!

And that is where I stopped.

Anybody who starts like that isn't worth reading.

go to N. Korea and start talking about little Kim, then you will have my respect.
The rapper? :confused: