Does Wal-Mart need to be "stopped?"

Yes.

For what?

Shady business practices.

Continually violating the wage laws.

Blah, blah, blah...and you will see a massive exodus of corporations to other nations and unemployment will skyrocket.

Fearmongering nonsense.

Businesses want our resources and access to our markets. They won't go anywhere.




What I seem to be interested in is making and keeping the U.S. a business friendly nation.

You aren't business "friendly", you are a corporate slut who will give away everything on the first date in the delusional hope for a second date.


As for executives, they EARN the kind of money their getting.

*sigh*

I don't need to call you Anti-American. You do all the work showing that to everyone yourself.

I am sure you think William Mcguire "earned" his $1.7 BILLION (with a B) paycheck from last year for nothing more than leeching off our medical industry.



Okay, going by the argument that people need to make a livable wage,

Wait a minute. Stop right there. You DON'T think people need to make a livable wage???

So you admit you are pro-poverty. As long as it's good for those foreign corporations, it's good with you, eh?

But, you aren't Anti-American, are you? </sarcasm> :rolleyes:

Wait a minute. Stop right there. You DON'T think people need to make a livable wage??? ........As long as it's good for those foreign corporations, it's good with you, eh?

It's truly sickening to realize how many people in this country think it's perfectly reasonable for the average CEO to make 300 times what the average laborer makes, yet when the politicians finally try to give a way past due raise to a few million of the lowest paid workers in the country, the same people who think $9 million a year in wages is "deserved" by the CEOs are up in arms, screeching about how it's a terible idea to give the minimum wage workers that raise, and how it will lead to an absolute calamity (even though the statistics have consistently refuted that notion) for the economy. .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

An analysis of securities filings showed that CEO salaries rose 12 percent in 2004 compared with average raises of 3.6 percent for rank-and-file workers, further widening the world's largest gaps between executive and labor pay.

The average CEO of a major corporation received $9.84 million in total compensation in 2004 ........ it (Business Week) also found that CEO raises once again dwarfed those of the average worker, who saw pay rise 2.9 percent, to $33,176 per year, and concluded: ''Nearly 40 of the nation's chief executives walked away with more than $20 million, excluding windfalls from option exercises.

........

The United States long has had the industrialized world's largest gap in pay between chief executives and blue-collar workers. CEO compensation swelled from 85 times what workers earned in 1990, to 209 times in 1996, and 326 times the following year. In 1999, CEO pay surged to a record 419 times the average worker's wage, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

The gap then declined, to 282-to-1 in 2002, before surpassing 300-to-1 the following year, according to the research and advocacy group United for a Fair Economy (UFE).

Comparable figures for other wealthy nations generally do not exceed the double digits. ------- http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0412-10.htm

You DON'T think people need to make a livable wage???

You didn't ask me, but I don't think everybody needs to earn a livable wage. Namely students, people taking a second job to earn extra cash, etc.

The average CEO of a major corporation received $9.84 million in total compensation in 2004 ........ it (Business Week) also found that CEO raises once again dwarfed those of the average worker,

The only problem with that stat is that it's comparing CEO salaries from the largest corporations with salaries of all workers. A fairer comparison would be all CEOs vs. all workers.

I think CEOs should be paid whatever their market value is - if they're truly talented and are going to make the company and the stockholders lots of money, then fork out the dough. The problem is that the boards are too cozy with the CEOs and they sign off on insanely huge salaries and bonuses without any negotiation at all.

You didn't ask me, but I don't think everybody needs to earn a livable wage. Namely students, people taking a second job to earn extra cash, etc.

So basicly everyone who either doesn't need to work or is dependant upon someone else who does have a living wage. I figured they were a given.



I think CEOs should be paid whatever their market value is

The problem with that idea is that they get to decide what their own "market value" is, which is the entire reason they are paid so outrageously as it is.

"It's truly sickening to realize how many people in this country think it's perfectly reasonable for the average CEO to make 300 times what the average laborer makes."

This is a good example of poor thinking. What these people are paid has nothing to do with the desirability of the minimum wage laws except an emotional reaction.

The solution to over-paid corporate executives is to keep competition keen--then those corporations that overpay will be at a competitive disadvantage and will disappear. That this doesn't seem to happen only indicates that they are not being overpaid. (Although I would support removing the tax deduction for executive pay over some reasonable level).

The "living wage" argument is another example of poor, emotional thinking. I would rather be making a sub-par wage than be unemployed. Minimum wages tend to block labor market entry by encouraging entry jobs be either moved overseas or automated. As a result, you gradually build up a permanently unemployed and unemployable class.

The solution to over-paid corporate executives is to keep competition keen--then those corporations that overpay will be at a competitive disadvantage and will disappear.

This is a perfect example of extremely naive thinking. The fact of the matter is that these same people who are getting paid hundreds of millions and sometimes billions of dollars are the same ones who have been campaigning for decades against anti-trust laws which are the only mechanism by which we can prevent monopoly and thus "keep competition keen". Breaking up Ma Bell may have cost that corporation and it's executives millions of dollars but it saved the American people hundreds of millions by forstering competition.


That this doesn't seem to happen only indicates that they are not being overpaid.

That is grossly naive and shows a basic ignorance about how this system actually works and what is really going on around you.



I would rather be making a sub-par wage than be unemployed.

Another example of poor, naive thinking. If you are employed but still can't make enough to pay your bills then there is no advantage to having a job vs being unemployed because you aren't going to be paying your bills either way. Either way it gets the same net result for the worker.


Minimum wages tend to block labor market entry by encouraging entry jobs be either moved overseas or automated.

Absolute nonsense. There will always be a market for entry-level jobs. There will always be a need for people to do those jobs here. You can't outsource a dishwashing job to India. Automation has always been an issue but it has never had anything to do with the minimum wage.

So basicly everyone who either doesn't need to work or is dependant upon someone else who does have a living wage. I figured they were a given.

OK, but now you have the issue of how you pay two different people different wages for the same job, based on whether or not they live with their parents.

The problem with that idea is that they get to decide what their own "market value" is, which is the entire reason they are paid so outrageously as it is.

I tend to blame the board more than the CEOs, but I don't disagree that most of them aren't worth what they're paid.

OK, but now you have the issue of how you pay two different people different wages for the same job, based on whether or not they live with their parents.

You know, I am really not fussed about whether 16 year olds have jobs. They don't need them. It is their parents that need the jobs.

Another example of poor, naive thinking. If you are employed but still can't make enough to pay your bills then there is no advantage to having a job vs being unemployed because you aren't going to be paying your bills either way. Either way it gets the same net result for the worker.
Pfft -

Yeah, but in one scenario, you can feed yourself....

On the other hand, maybe you're living beyond your means....

I know, I know...perish the thought, right? :rolleyes:

But fear not - I understand your mindset. In short, it's typical. Liberals all over the world would applaud what you just said.

Yea, its an ugly crap-filled truth dharma just said...

But i can tell you a reason WHY to work instead of not work even though you get the same result...

it's this ancient thing that eludes most of us these days.. called a "work ethic"...

You know, I am really not fussed about whether 16 year olds have jobs. They don't need them.
Your kids must be real stand up individuals. You know, there's nothing better than a 16 year-old begging for gas and movie money on Friday night. You must be really proud.
It is their parents that need the jobs.
Really? Do ya think so??? Or perhaps it's the employer's job of said parents to factor in a "needy child" clause into their working wage because...and if I'm reading you correctly here, we all know that teenagers don't really "need" jobs, right? ;) :rolleyes:

Just out of curiosity, Bumfuck - did your parents have any kids that lived?

we all know that teenagers don't really "need" jobs, right? ;) :rolleyes:

Most teenagers don't need jobs. How many teenagers pay the bills in a household? Gas and weed money does not constitute "need".

When I was 15, I had a job. I saved my money to buy a car. Which I did buy, with no help from my parents. Jobs are good things for teenagers to have.

It all boils to a question of parental methods - i.e., do you want to raise a responsible child, or a needy one? The choice is yours.

I got my first job at 15 working at Mr. Submarine. The only thing I'm pissed at my parents for is not sending me to a reputable and expensive military academy when my grades started to slip in 7th grade. I'd probably be making twice what I am now, possibly more. I could've gone to Dartmouth, Oxford, or Stanford. Instead, I ended up going to Illinois State because my grades sucked in high school. In short, my parents were pussies. They didn't wanna lose their "baby", so consequently, I got fucked.

It's a mistake I WILL NOT make with my kids. They're goin' away when they reach 10, and I don't care if it costs me 30 grand a year to do it...

That aside, if they ended up living under my roof at all, they'd have jobs. That wouldn't be negotiable.

Gas and weed money does not constitute "need".
Well, if you want your kids to rely on you for things they don't "need", then fine. Personally, I'd rather teach them responsibility and independence. Perhaps (and maybe I'm being overly optimistic here), they’d hold off on looking for weed money until college.

Well, if you want your kids to rely on you for things they don't "need", then fine. Personally, I'd rather teach them responsibility and independence.

I completely agree with you and Borg and jobs are great things for teenagers to have. My parents forced me to get a "job" at 14 (scorekeeping softball games really isn't much of a job..) and it was a good for me. But, in terms of survival, it wasn't necessary for me to get a job.

Your kids must be real stand up individuals.

Moreso than you, obviously.


You know, there's nothing better than a 16 year-old begging for gas and movie money on Friday night.

There is this concept you are obviously unaware of called "Chores".
Your parents must be real proud.

I said:
It is their parents that need the jobs.


Really? Do ya think so???

Yes, you dimwitted, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing Troll, I do.

Call me crazy, but yes, I do place a higher priority on Parents being able to pay their mortgage than I do on whether a 16 year old has gas money for the weekend.

When I was 15, I had a job. I saved my money to buy a car. Which I did buy, with no help from my parents. Jobs are good things for teenagers to have.

Agreed, but if we have to choose between good paying jobs for the parents and low wage jobs for teenagers, there is no real choice at all.

it's this ancient thing that eludes most of us these days.. called a "work ethic"...

Speak for yourself. Some of us work very hard.

Yeah, but in one scenario, you can feed yourself....


No, you can't. That is the whole point you keep missing.

But, in terms of survival, it wasn't necessary for me to get a job.
I understand what you're trying to say here, but "necessary" doesn't factor into the movie and arcade equation either. Rest assured, your kids WILL ask you for money - the question is, will you have given them the tools necessary for them to fend for themselves responsibly and maturely. I mean, after all - you don't wanna raise democrats, do you?

Praetorian would have parents competing for the same jobs as their 16 year olds. Good luck giving them any money for movies on that income!

Agreed, but if we have to choose between good paying jobs for the parents and low wage jobs for teenagers, there is no real choice at all.
Why this false dichotomy? I don't see that ever happening at all. I don't understand whence you're getting the idea that teenagers directly compete with adults in the job market. Teenagers are untrained, uneducated, and under time restraints (school). They can never compete with adults in the job market.

Moreso than you, obviously.
Do tell, Bumfuck - how is it "obvious"? Have I ever spoken to your children before?

Think about your comment here, and get back to me...
There is this concept you are obviously unaware of called "Chores".
I didn't have any chores; we had a maid. I, OTOH, was forced to get a job.
Your parents must be real proud.
Rest assured, they are.
Yes, you dimwitted, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing Troll, I do.
Pot meet kettle. Speaking of which, I'd be willing to put my IQ up against yours any day. I'd even go so far as to give you a 20-point handicap.
Call me crazy, but yes, I do place a higher priority on Parents being able to pay their mortgage than I do on whether a 16 year old has gas money for the weekend.
As you should, but then again, that's patently obvious, isn't it? I mean, aside from the "really?", "do ya think so?" quip, that was kind of my point. :rolleyes:
Praetorian would have parents competing for the same jobs as their 16 year olds. Good luck giving them any money for movies on that income!
I'd bet a fair wager that your kids would probably offer you some stiff competition in the job market, but believe it or not, I have a degree in business, just sold my 2004 BMW, own a condo with roughly 100k in capital, have almost 20k in savings, a personal watercraft, a sport quad, a 2006 Buell, and over 40 thousand in my 401K. The kicker is I just turned 30 in January. In short, if you find yourself competing with 16-year-olds in the job market, then obviously, you've got bigger problems than paying your bills - you're a fucking retard.

I don't understand whence you're getting the idea that teenagers directly compete with adults in the job market.

Allow me to help you.

1. I complained that our good paying jobs are going away and being replaced by low paying McJobs. I am told that anybody who loses their job didn't have enough "skills" and that by going back to school and learning more "skills" then they might get the ever-elusive good paying jobs. Sounds pretty circular to me.

2. I am told that our economy is doing great because we have more jobs, even though they are in the catagory of low paying McJobs. I am told that even though they don't pay as well, those jobs need to pay low wages because 16 year olds need to have their movie money.

Do tell, Bumfuck - how is it "obvious"?

Because the fact is that you are an ignorant good for nothing fuck with nothing intelligent to say so far whatsoever.



I didn't have any chores; we had a maid.

That explains your complete lack of understanding for what it is like to work for a living.



I'd be willing to put my IQ up against yours any day.

Sorry, I won't do a battle of wits with an unarmed individual like youself.

It wouldn't be at all fair to you.

That explains you complete lack of understanding for what it is like to work for a living.
"Work for a living"??? I just told you that I've been working since I was 15. I've always had a job, and yes, most of them were pretty shitty. That aside, don't be pissed at me for kicking your ass financially. It's not my fault you suck.

Now now, let's not get into some pissing contest here...

Because the fact is that you are an ignorant good for nothing fuck with nothing intelligent to say so far whatsoever.
Oh, and the profundity just pours from that constantly agape mouth of yours 24/7, right? You know, you're a real blue ribbon fuck, Dharma, but if you left, we'd have no one to pick on. Stick around. You're an easy target. :)
Sorry, I won't do a battle of wits with an unarmed individual like youself.

It wouldn't be at all fair to you.
Awwww - that's too bad....

I was looking forward to the pleasure of your company being that I haven't had it yet. Now, you probably don't understand the humor in that comment, but don't worry - it's not for you. ;)

In short, if I wanted to talk to somebody with your intellect - I'd be at Walmart talking to one of the cashiers. Don't flatter yourself with the "unarmed individual" bon mot, Chachi - all in all, you're a very stupid man.

ON EDIT: I'm done, Borg.

You know, you're a real blue ribbon fuck, Dharma,

Whereas you are a plain old regular dumbfuck.

You are done.

Speak for yourself. Some of us work very hard.

Well hey i thought meshing everyone you disagree with into a group labeled with negative traits was all the rage these days.. especially with you dharma

What's wrong with pissing contests? This one was quite amusing! Raining on all our fun, I'm telling you!

Well hey i thought...

And therein lies your problem.

Stick to the things you have a talent for. Thinking isn't one of them.

And therein lies your problem.

Stick to the things you have a talent for. Thinking isn't one of them.

Way to dodge my post... seems like you love the "back door" more than a gay prostitute who loves to catch and needs rent money by friday.

You seem to have quite the obsession with "back doors" Decka.
Maybe you could be a member of the White House Press Corp someday like your hero, Jeff Gannon!

Another dodge.. geez get this guy on a dodgeball team and FAST!!!

Are you going to quit pointing the finger at me and actually answer some questions? Debating with you is like me being a light beam and you being a prizm, you never get a direct reflection of the topic you were on.

Are you going to quit pointing the finger at me and actually answer some questions? Debating with you is like me being a light beam and you being a prizm, you never get a direct reflection of the topic you were on.

He was supposed to respond to this?:
Well hey i thought meshing everyone you disagree with into a group labeled with negative traits was all the rage these days.. especially with you dharma

Exactly. Answer what question?

Exactly. Answer what question?

Well since you asked: I'll repeat the convo...

*From the "English official language" thread*

gmsisko1: Yes Sedan. As unlikley as you might think it is, there are plenty who agree with me.

dharmabum: Yes, they are called "dittoheads" and are treated by society at large with mockery and derision.

gmsisko1:You really are as dumb as you look!! You just called all hard working Americians who want immigerents to learn English a ditto-head

Decka:He is trying to group all people who agree with this as bible-thumping, Rush-worshippers... thus, he is trying to exagerate to make his point and is hoping nobody calls him out on it...

dharmabum:If the shoe fits...


Right there.. wasn't there a grouping of ANYONE who thinks English should be the main language and should be learned if you live here a negative? Sounds like lumping an entire group of people together to me..

Thus in this thread:

Decka:But i can tell you a reason WHY to work instead of not work even though you get the same result..
it's this ancient thing that eludes most of us these days.. called a "work ethic"...

dharmabum:Speak for yourself. Some of us work very hard.

Decka:Well hey i thought meshing everyone you disagree with into a group labeled with negative traits was all the rage these days.. especially with you dharma

.. and i said it because in the other thread he did exactly that... Sorry.. you dont HAVE to "answer" to it.. but you seemed to be running from the topic faster than a fat drunk man to the toilet after eating taco bell.

Just thought i'd spell it out for you

I still don't see any "question" for me to answer, Decka.

I mocked you for your dittoheaded-ish ranting. I didn't say anything about immigrants or learning english and you didn't specify what anyone would agree with you about.

You don't like being grouped with your bretheren dittoheads, do you?
Why is that, I wonder?

You don't like being grouped with your bretheren dittoheads, do you?
Why is that, I wonder?
For the same reason you don't like being called a communist peckerwood, I'd imagine...

can you point out the "dittoheadish ranting" i did on this thread dharma? LOL

can you point out the "dittoheadish ranting" i did on this thread dharma? LOL
Decka has finally found somone he is smarter then!

hey! its the gayest man alive! everyone be happy! my life is so fun! weeeee!

....my life is so fun! weeeee!
:D

That's some funny shit right there.

hey! its the gayest man alive! everyone be happy! my life is so fun! weeeee!
i just sprayed half a beer out my nose!:hahanot:

Well, I guess it is after noon...

Well, I guess it is after noon...
beer! it's not just for breakfast anymore.

Yeah, but it's fucking Wednesday!? ;)

Trust me, I drink a LOT of alcohol, but not usually during the middle of the week.

Yeah, but it's fucking Wednesday!? ;)

Trust me, I drink a LOT of alcohol, but not usually during the middle of the week.
your Wednesday, my Saturday.:matrix:

your Wednesday, my Saturday.:matrix:
Ahhhh - I see. That's cool. What kind of beer are you drinking?

gay means happy right?

Ahhhh - I see. That's cool. What kind of beer are you drinking?
it was Molson Canadian...and that killed the 6 pack i bought last month:(

gay means happy right?
not since the Flintstones.

gay means you poop alot faster

Have you been treated for encopresis?

Maybe not Decka, but OD probably will be.

BTW, I'd never heard that term before - what scares me is you had. :eek: ;)

Maybe not Decka, but OD probably will be.

BTW, I'd never heard that term before - what scares me is you had. :eek: ;)

Was part of my studies in child psychology.

I thought it was adults that experienced that kind of shit (pardon the pun).

can you point out the "dittoheadish ranting" i did on this thread dharma?

Thats easy.

All of your posts.

hey! its the gayest man alive! everyone be happy! my life is so fun! weeeee!

Congrats on coming out of the closet Trav.

And I'd be willing to bet that you know how difficult it is, right Dharma?

Thats easy.

All of your posts.

ha-ha-ha-ha-ha

wow what a funny post... I'm guessing a 2nd grader could rip on dharma and he wouldnt have a come back.

ha-ha-ha-ha-ha

wow what a funny post... I'm guessing a 2nd grader could rip on dharma and he wouldnt have a come back.
a 12 y/o can:lolhit: