http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070120/ap_on_el_pr/clinton2008

I beg you, for the sake of the nation and mankind, do not vote for this woman in 08. Thanks.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070120/ap_on_el_pr/clinton2008

I beg you, for the sake of the nation and mankind, do not vote for this woman in 08. Thanks.

I also beg you, for the sake of the nation and mankind, to not vote for this woman in 08.

Unless of course it would mean that you're voting instead for the RepubliFascist that is running against her.

In that case, choose Hillary.

Better a fascist with a small bit of progressivism and regard for humankind left in her than a ConservaFascist with no trace of humanity (IOW, a Republcan) left inside them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070120/ap_on_el_pr/clinton2008

I beg you, for the sake of the nation and mankind, do not vote for this woman in 08. Thanks.

OK but who should I vote for? Any recommendations?

And why.

OK but who should I vote for? Any recommendations?

And why.
Does it matter Dop? You said Hillary was unbeatable.

People in the midwest have grown to hate Hillary...for resons unknown to me. I'll get back to you on this one.

Does it matter Dop? You said Hillary was unbeatable.

IMHO she is unbeatable but that has nothing to do with this topic.

The poster is asking me (us) to not vote for her and I'm simply asking who should I vote for? or should I just not vote at all? I mean, like, WTF, a little clue here about what the poster is talking about would be nice.

Vote for Osama- er... Obama Hussein

Man it's gotta suck to have his name.

Democrats in the 08 primary should take care not to vote for the statist candidate. Republicans should do the same.

If it's Hillary versus, say, Brownback...lord, I'd have to vote third party. That's a horrible choice.

Vote for Osama- er... Obama Hussein

Man it's gotta suck to have his name.

That's a wasted vote. He can't win.

FOX, CNN et al will go light on him in hopes he wins the nomination because they know none of the republicans can beat Hillary. Once he gets the nomination, out come the Harold Ford type ads showing Obama doing blow with a white woman, bringing up his middle name, accusing him of being a terrorist because of muslim ties, his position on gun-control and so on.

The talking point after he loses the general election will be the obvious ...

the country just isn't ready for a black president

I like Obama but the deck is stacked against him and I don't feel like wasting my vote.

People in the midwest have grown to hate Hillary...for reasons unknown to me. I'll get back to you on this one.

They hate her because the dominant, Corporate owned media has been incessantly disparaging her and carrying out a campaign of villification against her since the early 90's. The sheep believe whatever the powers-that-be tell them to believe.

Prediction; before this campaign is over, there will be an effort somewhere in the Media to paint Hillary Clinton as a lesbian.

That's a wasted vote. He can't win.

FOX, CNN et al will go light on him in hopes he wins the nomination because they know none of the republicans can beat Hillary. Once he gets the nomination, out come the Harold Ford type ads showing Obama doing blow with a white woman, bringing up his middle name, accusing him of being a terrorist because of muslim ties, his position on gun-control and so on.

The talking point after he loses the general election will be the obvious ...

the country just isn't ready for a black president

I like Obama but the deck is stacked against him and I don't feel like wasting my vote.

Heh. Dop, I was joking.

You're right though, a good portion of the population is not willing to put a black person, or a woman for that matter, into office.

Heh. Dop, I was joking.

You're right though, a good portion of the population is not willing to put a black person, or a woman for that matter, into office.
But they're mostly in deep red states, which Democrats will not win anyway. Just a thought.

I wouldn't be so sure about people not voting for a woman or black president.. and i wouldn't necessarily pin it all on the "deep red states"... it's human nature to want a strong leadership, and men have always been seen as the "dominant" sex, reguardless of whether they really are or not. That is prevalent in all states, not just the red states everyone on here loves to bash.

As for a black president, if you get a good candidate, i doubt just merely being black will prevent someone from voting for them.

But they're mostly in deep red states, which Democrats will not win anyway. Just a thought.

I agree, they are mostly in the deep red states, but there are also many democrats who have hidden prejudices as well.

Just remember, If Hillary Clinton becomes President, then Bill Clinton will undertake the duties of First Lady. Mostly that involves entertaining the spouses of foreign heads of state while their husbands meet with the President. Now does anyone think it is wise to leave Bill Clinton in charge of entertaining any woman at all in the White House?

Just remember, If Hillary Clinton becomes President, then Bill Clinton will undertake the duties of First Lady. Mostly that involves entertaining the spouses of foreign heads of state while their husbands meet with the President. Now does anyone think it is wise to leave Bill Clinton in charge of entertaining any woman at all in the White House?
LMAO

I like Obama but the deck is stacked against him and I don't feel like wasting my vote.
It's far too early to say that since the primaries are still a year away. We saw in the last election how unpredictable the nomination process can be.

This showed up in email:

Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein
Obama Sr. (black muslim) of Nyangoma-Kogelo, Siaya District, Kenya, and
Ann Dunham of Wichita, Kansas. (white atheist ).

When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced and his father returned to Kenya. His mother married Lolo Soetoro -- a Muslim -- moving to Jakarta with Obama when he was six years old. Within six months he had learned to speak the Indonesian language Obama spent "two years in a Muslim school, then two more in a Catholic school" in Jakarta. Obama takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim while admitting that he was once a Muslim, mitigating that damning information by saying that, for two years, he also attended a Catholic school. Obama's father, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. was a radical Muslim who migrated from Kenya to Jakarta, Indonesia. He met Obama's mother, Ann Dunham-a white atheist from Wichita, Kansas-at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. Obama, Sr. and Dunham divorced when Barack, Jr. was two. Obama's spinmeisters are now attempting to make it appear that Obama's introduction to Islam came from his father and that influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya immediately following the divorce and never again had any direct influence over his son's education. Dunham married another Muslim, Lolo Soetoro who educated his stepson as a good Muslim by enrolling him in one of Jakarta's Wahabbi schools. Wahabbism is the radical teaching that created the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad on the industrialized world. Since it is politically expedient to be a Christian when you are seeking political office in the United States, Obama joined the United Church of Christ to help purge any notion that he is still a Muslim.
***************

Make of it what you will.

Make of it what you will.
I could hardly care less about a politician's religious affiliations. I care about his views, his record, and his experience.

Heh. Dop, I was joking.

You're right though, a good portion of the population is not willing to put a black person, or a woman for that matter, into office.
i'd vote for Condi.

I think the country is ready for a black president, or a woman. I woulda voted for Colin Powell back in the day when he had the chance to run (he didnt of course and I was too young) Id vote for Condi if she ran too, that'd knock out two birds with one stone lol. But Hillary, is Hillary, I mean cmon, do I even have to back that up?

But Hillary, is Hillary, I mean cmon, do I even have to back that up?
no...'nuff said.

I could hardly care less about a politician's religious affiliations. I care about his views, his record, and his experience.

I agree. That letter es recieved is one of the lowest forms of campaigning. If I knew what candidate was responsible I would never vote for him.

i'd vote for Condi.

Oh god no... not Condi, anyone but Condi.

i'd vote for Condi.
Condi would never win, especially if she ran against a moderate Democrat. I don't think an unmarried black woman would go over too well in the Southern states, but John Edwards would.

Fox News on Obama:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xfUD8R3PB4

When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced ------His mother married Lolo Soetoro, a Muslim -----Obama spent "two years in a Muslim school --- Obama's mother, Ann Dunham-a white atheist -----enrolling him in one of Jakarta's Wahabbi schools. Wahabbism is the radical teaching that created the Muslim terrorists...........

Wow. That guy has about as much chance of becoming U.S. president as Pee Wee Herman.

Interesting note about Condi: I heard 'Condoleezza' means 'beautiful.'

Talk about a misnomer.

Interesting note about Condi: I heard 'Condoleezza' means 'beautiful.'

Talk about a misnomer.

Hah, burn. Yea, she's hideous

Hah, burn. Yea, she's hideous
ok, she's not Halle Berry, but i'd do her:smile2:

Hillary is hated far too much. Usually for reasons that are un-important and hold no weight. It just so happens that most Americans don't like her because of a false image they have of her. Honestly, Republicans hate her more then they hate Bill. Which I find shocking.

Obama all the way. Obama will pull in all the votes from the youth (good looks/being young DO motivate the youth, sadly) and the minority vote for Obama will be HUGE. He will also get a lot of moderates because she has shown he can work together with the other side and compromise. And all the Democrats will vote for him because we will have had 8 years of hell with Bush. The Democratic base, the youth, the minorities and a large portion of moderates will turn out for Obama if he gets the nomination.

The ONLY people who won't vote for Obama because of his skin color wouldn't vote Democrat no matter WHAT color of skin he was. So I don't really worry about him being black.

OD, I would agree with you except for the muslim thing. That's a political drive-by if I ever saw one. Americans in general view muslims as evil, especially since they clump all people from the middle east together and especially after 9-11. I don't think Obama stands a chance.

Fox News on Obama:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xfUD8R3PB4

What's sad is that I'm sure the fact he went to a Muslim school matters to some people.

I really wish he didn't leave that out of his book, makes it look like he's ashamed.

It's so stupid to freak out about how he went to a Muslim school, or about his middle name. Typical Fox news tactics.

I don't like Hillary because she is a corporatist like her husband, she supported the war since the beginning and when everything went bad in Iraq, she continued supporting it. As far as I know she only very recently came out very vocally against the war and in my opinion, that was for politcial reasons.

I prefer Oabama or Edwards. Perferably both.

I think the country is ready for a black president, or a woman. I woulda voted for Colin Powell back in the day when he had the chance to run (he didnt of course and I was too young) Id vote for Condi if she ran too, that'd knock out two birds with one stone lol. But Hillary, is Hillary, I mean cmon, do I even have to back that up?

Ya! I'd like to here what is the problem with Clinton, facts please?

Ya! I'd like to here what is the problem with Clinton, facts please?
She's a statist. A nanny liberal. All for big government. That enough for you?

She's a statist. A nanny liberal. All for big government.

That is so silly I am assuming it is a joke.

That is so silly I am assuming it is a joke.
It is not. Would you like to refute my claims? The woman loves socialized health care, welfare, and censorship. She was a big sponsor of the bill (I don't recall its name) also sponsored by Lieberman that effectively limited the freedom to create video games that were violent or sexual in content. Which I find abhorrent.

The Republicans just presided over the largest growth of the federal government since the new deal. That is Big Government. Of course I don't see the corporate media talking about that little fact.

Corporations are now calling for national (socialized) healthcare because the cost is killing their profits. Toyota just decided to open a new plant in Canada instead of Indiana specificly because the cost of healthcare in America is so much higher. That is what making healthcare for-profit (privitizing) does, it drives the costs up because the emphasis is put on increasing profits. Some industries should not be for-profit.

The Republicans just presided over the largest growth of the federal government since the new deal. That is Big Government.
Show me where I said anything that disagrees with that.

Show me where I said anything that disagrees with that.

Im glad we agree that Republicans are also "all for big government".

It is a talking point, not a legitimate complaint about a politician.

She (Hillary Clinton) was a big sponsor of the bill (I don't recall its name) also sponsored by Lieberman that effectively limited the freedom to create video games that were violent or sexual in content. Which I find abhorrent.

I agree. It is puritanical and unecessary censorship. It is destestable.

But you claimed she was a "nanny liberal".......and voting for things like the censorious video game bill in question exposes her as being a nanny authoritarian............not a "nanny liberal".

Another example of her being authoritarian-minded instead of liberal-minded is that she voted last year for the ridiculous bill that would ban flag burning.

And yet another example, --------she voted to approve the disastrous Iraq war.

Obama will pull in all the votes from the youth (good looks/being young DO motivate the youth, sadly)

Sadly? Isn't Paris Hilton "your idol"?

I see a contradiction there...

Sadly? Isn't Paris Hilton "your idol"?

I see a contradiction there...
ROFL. It was a joke. But I can see how someone of your nature would think I was serious. :slap:

Well.. when someone puts her as his avatar, and doesn't put any hint of sarcasm next to the statement, i guess i dont have a choice but to assume you are serious.

Does it matter Dop? You said Hillary was unbeatable.
Did he really say that??? ::bites nails::

I mean, with his record on elections and all, I'm seriously worried...

Wow. That guy (Obama) has about as much chance of becoming U.S. president as Pee Wee Herman.
No.

Pee Wee'd have a better chance. At least he's real.

Oh, and the fact that he's done something (with a modicum of success, that is) doesn't hurt.

Take Hillarty lightly at your own peril ... just like you did with the '06 house and senate. ROTFL

Take Hillarty lightly at your own peril ... just like you did with the '06 house and senate. ROTFL
I didn't say the Repubs would keep the house OR senate. As a matter of fact, I said they deserved to lose both and DID.

The Republican party of today is an embarrassment to real Republicans everywhere. Be that as it may, Hillary has a better chance of catching a venereal disease than she does winning a presidential election - and THAT, you can quote me on.

Take Hillarty lightly at your own peril ...
I'll do that, then.

All that has to happen next election is for the votes to get so tied up per-centage wise that the Electorial College sends it to the House for vote.
The house, being democratic controlled, elects Hillary.

All that has to happen next election is for the votes to get so tied up per-centage wise that the Electorial College sends it to the House for vote.
The house, being democratic controlled, elects Hillary.That would only happen if no candidate gets the required 270 electoral votes. Without a serious thrid-party candidate, that's highly unlikely.

Lets wait and see if she even gets her parties nomination before we speculate further...

The ONLY people who won't vote for Obama because of his skin color wouldn't vote Democrat no matter WHAT color of skin he was.

OD, I can state to you with 100% certaintly that I know people who are finally fed up enough with Bush to vote Democratic, but who would NEVER, under any circumstance, EVER vote for a candidate whose middle name is Hussein AND who was raised a Muslim.

YES, it is incredibly stupid to not vote for someone based on their middle name.....and YES, it is incredibly stupid to not vote for someone based on the fact that they believe in supernatural entity A instead of supernatural entity C........but then, no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.

but then, no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.

You realize that you are included in that statement...

What you are not bright enough to realize is that I was speaking about the American People collectively.

What you are not bright enough to realize is that I was speaking about the American People collectively.

i'm just poking fun at the notion that you enjoy all american freedoms but seperate yourself so much from it... you are very arrogant and smug, so reguardless if its "collectively".. you are still included in the equation..

... you are very arrogant and smug, so reguardless if its "collectively".. you are still included in the equation..

It is not *arrogance* that causes me to say that the American People -collectively- are ignorant and easily duped.

It is a simple statement of fact.

Someone should start a thread about it.

It is not *arrogance* that causes me to say that the American People -collectively- are ignorant and easily duped.

It is a simple statement of fact.

Someone should start a thread about it.

So i could say you are ignorant and a moron and that can be fact too right?

OD, I can state to you with 100% certaintly that I know people who are finally fed up enough with Bush to vote Democratic, but who would NEVER, under any circumstance, EVER vote for a candidate whose middle name is Hussein AND who was raised a Muslim.

YES, it is incredibly stupid to not vote for someone based on their middle name.....and YES, it is incredibly stupid to not vote for someone based on the fact that they believe in supernatural entity A instead of supernatural entity C........but then, no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.
I'd like to see Obama's response to being raised Muslim. And if he still is Muslim and what-not.

Honestly, I think Americans are fed-up with the dumb, stupid, "catch-phrase" attacks. Such as the "wind-surfing" ads they played against John Kerry to cast him out as a flip flopper. I just think Americans have grown and I don't know if his middle name and how he was raised is going to be enough to stop his charm, charisma and finally and most important how much he offers our country if he becomes President in terms of being able to compromise and coming up with great ideas for the future of our country.

Honestly, I think Americans are fed-up with the dumb, stupid, "catch-phrase" attacks.

Honestly, I think Americans adore the stupid, "catch-phrase" attacks IF said attacks are against people who have first been identified (even if it is an incorrect identification) as an evil "liiiiberal".

I just think Americans have grown.....

Respectfully, a collective of 300 million people does not *grow* very much in a few short years.

It would take decades to cause the People collectively to embrace (much less be capabale of) critical thought.

...and I don't know if his middle name and how he was raised is going to be enough to stop his charm, charisma and finally and most important how much he offers our country if he becomes President....

He could be a combination of Jesus, Ghandi, Teddy Roosevelt and Winston Churchill but if his skin was black, a high percentage of the people I know in this part of the United States would NOT, under any circumstance, vote for him.

PLUS, he's a former Muslim. He is totally unelectable, IMO.

I'd like to see Obama's response to being raised Muslim. And if he still is Muslim and what-not.

Honestly, I think Americans are fed-up with the dumb, stupid, "catch-phrase" attacks. Such as the "wind-surfing" ads they played against John Kerry to cast him out as a flip flopper. I just think Americans have grown and I don't know if his middle name and how he was raised is going to be enough to stop his charm, charisma and finally and most important how much he offers our country if he becomes President in terms of being able to compromise and coming up with great ideas for the future of our country.

I think you're overly optimistic.

Respectfully, a collective of 300 million people does not *grow* very much in a few short years.

It would take decades to cause the People collectively to embrace (much less be capabale of) critical thought.
Maybe. However, as you said, "I know people who are finally fed up enough with Bush to vote Democratic" and although that isn't the same as what I'm saying, it still kind of supports the idea that the Bush Administration has been so bad that Americans are finally starting to open up to new ideas, and for the first time may vote for a Democrat. Which suggests to me that Americans are not going to fall for the stupid catch phrases that got Bush elected twice.

He could be a combination of Jesus, Ghandi, Teddy Roosevelt and Winston Churchill but if his skin was black, a high percentage of the people I know in this part of the United States would NOT, under any circumstance, vote for him.

PLUS, he's a former Muslim. He is totally unelectable, IMO.
1. I don't think Obama being black will have that much of an impact. I really don't. The people who won't vote for him because of his skin color wouldn't vote Democratic anyway.
2. The "Muslim" thing isn't as big as it was made out to be. I believe I posted a thread talking about that.

2. The "Muslim" thing isn't as big as it was made out to be. I believe I posted a thread talking about that.
The issue will only enlarge in campaigning when the primaries roll around. They may hound the masses with Obama's Christian viewpoint now, or draw attention away from his two years at a Muslim school (in the largest Muslim country on Earth), but I'm sure opponents will play it into their hands for months.

The issue will only enlarge in campaigning when the primaries roll around. They may hound the masses with Obama's Christian viewpoint now, or draw attention away from his two years at a Muslim school (in the largest Muslim country on Earth), but I'm sure opponents will play it into their hands for months.
I don't think it will be that big of a deal...

He visited the Basuki school, which Obama attended from 1969 to 1971.

"This is a public school. We don't focus on religion," Hardi Priyono, deputy headmaster of the Basuki school, told Vause. "In our daily lives, we try to respect religion, but we don't give preferential treatment."

Vause reported he saw boys and girls dressed in neat school uniforms playing outside the school, while teachers were dressed in Western-style clothes.

"I came here to Barack Obama's elementary school in Jakarta looking for what some are calling an Islamic madrassa ... like the ones that teach hate and violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan," Vause said on the "Situation Room" Monday. "I've been to those madrassas in Pakistan ... this school is nothing like that."

Vause also interviewed one of Obama's Basuki classmates, Bandug Winadijanto, who claims that not a lot has changed at the school since the two men were pupils. Insight reported that Obama's political opponents believed the school promoted Wahhabism, a fundamentalist form of Islam, "and are seeking to prove it."

"It's not (an) Islamic school. It's general," Winadijanto said. "There is a lot of Christians, Buddhists, also Confucian. ... So that's a mixed school."

The Obama aide described Fox News' broadcasting of the Insight story "appallingly irresponsible."

more at cnn.com

However, as you said, "I know people who are finally fed up enough with Bush to vote Democratic" and although that isn't the same as what I'm saying, it still kind of supports the idea that the Bush Administration has been so bad that Americans are finally starting to open up to new ideas, and for the first time may vote for a Democrat.

Absolutely!

As long as it isn't a black person, a Muslim, or the most heinous, immoral, devious woman on the planet (:rolleyes:), Hillary.

Which suggests to me that Americans are not going to fall for the stupid catch phrases that got Bush elected twice.

To that I can only say one thing;

It matters not who casts the votes, but who counts the votes.

Bush has never been elected president. They stole both elections.

1. I don't think Obama being black will have that much of an impact. I really don't. The people who won't vote for him because of his skin color wouldn't vote Democratic anyway.

Maybe in YOUR neck of the woods, OD.

But not in mine. Here where I live, you are 100% WRONG on your -- ""people who won't vote for him because of his skin color wouldn't vote Democratic anyway"'-- stance.

Many, many people that I know who have never voted for anyone but a Democrat in their entire LIFE would rather vote third party or (the most likely scenario) not vote at all than to cast a vote a black man.

There are people here who are sorry (and I am perfectly serious) that slavery was repealed. These are people who most certainly WOULD vote for any breathing homo sapien the Democratic Party selects IF he is white, but not if he's black. Not in a million years.

To that I can only say one thing;

It matters not who casts the votes, but who counts the votes.

Bush has never been elected president. They stole both elections.
Well, I'm just saying. George Bush used those tactics to get a lot of votes. And it did gain him a lot of votes. Period.

Maybe in YOUR neck of the woods, OD.

But not in mine. Here where I live, you are 100% WRONG on your -- ""people who won't vote for him because of his skin color wouldn't vote Democratic anyway"'-- stance.

Many, many people that I know who have never voted for anyone but a Democrat in their entire LIFE would rather vote third party or (the most likely scenario) not vote at all than to cast a vote a black man.

There are people here who are sorry (and I am perfectly serious) that slavery was repealed. These are people who most certainly WOULD vote for any breathing homo sapien the Democratic Party selects IF he is white, but not if he's black. Not in a million years.
I'd have to see which state you are in, what part of the state and see if it really matters. Honestly, the youth vote will be bigger then ever with Obama. The minority vote will be bigger then ever with Obama. And the Democrats are SO sick of having a Republican as President they will be out in huge, huge numbers. All of those factors, plus having many moderates voting for Obama because of the way Bush has fucked up for 8 years could make Obama win the election. I'm not going to say he can't win just yet. He was voted #2 in the most likeable poll recently on MSNBC. He's got a shot, I think.

I didn't say the Repubs would keep the house OR senate. As a matter of fact, I said they deserved to lose both and DID.

The Republican party of today is an embarrassment to real Republicans everywhere. Be that as it may, Hillary has a better chance of catching a venereal disease than she does winning a presidential election - and THAT, you can quote me on.

Does that mean you're not voting for Hillary?

I wouldn't vote for her if she ran uncontested.

I'd have to see which state you are in, what part of the state and see if it really matters.

Pick any state from Arkansas to the Gulf of Mexico.....and what I said will hold true.

Honestly, the youth vote will be bigger then ever with Obama.

I don;t know whay you think that, but....ok.

The minority vote will be bigger then ever with Obama.

I disagree entirely.

A great number of the blacks in this country are Xtians, and will not vote for a man (who even though he may not be one) who will be identified as a Muslim.

And the Democrats are SO sick of having a Republican as President they will be out in huge, huge numbers.

After 2004, i will never put an ounce of faith in people being *fed up with* anything enough to motivate them to want change.

The Democratic voters --in 2004-- did not show up at the polls "in huge, huge numbers" to kick that sob out.

If what GWBush did in his first 4 years wasn't enough to convince every sentient human being in the US to vote for someone different, then the Republicans cannot DO anything bad enough to make the people disgusted with them in the kinds of numbers you're talking about.

All of those factors, plus having many moderates voting for Obama because of the way Bush has fucked up for 8 years could make Obama win the election.

We'll never know because the Dems --while they do seem to be clueless as to how to pick a candidate who can win big-- would never do anything as totally suicidal as choosing a Kenyan-born, former Muslim, Barack Hussein Obama.

But IF he were to be chosen to run, I believe he'd lose by a landslide.

But IF he were to be chosen to run, I believe he'd lose by a landslide.
Let's hope so.

Let's hope so.

Not me.

If I had to have a Democrat as pres, (http://www.vpsingles.com/pics/puke.gif) he'd be near the top of the list.

To that I can only say one thing;

It matters not who casts the votes, but who counts the votes.

Bush has never been elected president. They stole both elections.


Spoken like a true desperate conspiracy theorist...

You can't prove it, you just have convictions, but yet you present it as fact...

That, in fact, makes you a liar.

You can't prove it, you just have convictions, but yet you present it as fact...

That, in fact, makes you a liar.

I am stating what I believe, based on factual evidence and research I have read concerning the 2000 and 2004 elections.

http://www.votermarch.org/PDF%20Files/The%20Unelected%20President%20Stolen%20Election%20 2000.pdf

"The Unelected President"-- by Tammy Ballard, Sept. 30, 2002. A 60 page Primer in pdf format. An expose on the Stolen Election 2000, including the felon Black voter purge, the Palm Beach butterfly ballot, Republican Miami mob riots, fraudulent Republican overseas absentee ballots, media complicity, and the illegal Bush-Cheney 2000 Recount Committee.

I'd like to see Obama's response to being raised Muslim. And if he still is Muslim and what-not.


He talks about his upbringing and religious beliefs in his books.

I don't think he would characterize himself as being "raised Muslim".
He attended a Muslim school for a short time as a child.

I don't think (Obama) would characterize himself as being "raised Muslim".

Doesn't matter how he thinks of himself.

You can count on the Corporate mainstream Media to tell the sheep what they should think of him.

I don;t know whay you think that, but....ok.
As someone who is apart of the "youth" Obama is something the youth feels will represent them well.

A great number of the blacks in this country are Xtians, and will not vote for a man (who even though he may not be one) who will be identified as a Muslim.
I don't think Americans will fall for the "Muslim" thing.

After 2004, i will never put an ounce of faith in people being *fed up with* anything enough to motivate them to want change.

The Democratic voters --in 2004-- did not show up at the polls "in huge, huge numbers" to kick that sob out.
How do you know? The elections were a fraud, right?

If what GWBush did in his first 4 years wasn't enough to convince every sentient human being in the US to vote for someone different, then the Republicans cannot DO anything bad enough to make the people disgusted with them in the kinds of numbers you're talking about.
By 2006 Americans got the message and showed their change of opinion in the 2006 elections.

We'll never know because the Dems --while they do seem to be clueless as to how to pick a candidate who can win big-- would never do anything as totally suicidal as choosing a Kenyan-born, former Muslim, Barack Hussein Obama.

But IF he were to be chosen to run, I believe he'd lose by a landslide.
Again, he was shown to be one of the most likeable people to run in 2008. People do like him, regardless of all those "reasons" you listed...which shows the true star quality of Barack Obama.

I dont know. I just dont want to see an angry feminist in the oval office. Numerous times in her husband's administration she dressed down and downright screamed at staff members. I think it is ridiculous to think that she is geniunely concerned. She cannot answer any real questions nor does she want to.

Lots of people close to her say she has an anger problem.. i'm not saying that should prevent anyone from being in office, but it puts her off in a bad light.

She has been in the spotlight for about 15 years... and i heard her on an interview yesterday say "Don't listen to what other people say about me, make a judgement yourself", or something to that effect. That works if you are new to the game and people are bashing you, but when you are Hillary Clinton.. we all know what she is, and who she is. So if you like that, vote for her. If you don't, then vote for someone else... easy as that

Problem is that we DO know her. She has been in the spotlight for years and she is trying to revamp her image to one that is presidential. She can revamp her image but not what is under the image. The person is who we elect. not the image.

We all know her and understand her more than she knows.

God help us all.

She has a swarming team of image consultants who control what she says, what background is behind her when she talks, what color of clothes makes emits a certain emotion or feeling.... its insane.

This is nothing new to politics, or fast food chains for that matter, but it seems Hilary is in full-court press trying to make herself seem like she's a great candidate... some, or most, of us know better

I dont know. I just dont want to see an angry feminist in the oval office. Numerous times in her husband's administration she dressed down and downright screamed at staff members. I think it is ridiculous to think that she is geniunely concerned. She cannot answer any real questions nor does she want to.

You mean she acted just like Nancy Reagan.

Nancy Reagan did not have the impact on policy that Clinton does and she is not a feminist or a Senator.

You mean she acted just like Nancy Reagan.

Or Condi, for that matter. She always looks angry.
no wonder she is still single at her age.

All over with the insults.

All over with the insults.

Glad to hear it.

Maybe you can find something else to post.

I wasn't insulting anyone. Hillary is not interested in any real policy or questions. Everyone knows it.

I wasn't insulting anyone. Hillary is not interested in any real policy or questions. Everyone knows it.

You make a good parody of real conservatives.

You make a good parody of real conservatives.

For once, dharma, I agree with you.

For once, dharma, I agree with you.

You make it sound like you have never agreed with me before. :)

You make it sound like you have never agreed with me before. :)

I usually do not. Or actually I think it's your way of going about your arguments that makes me think I disagree with what you're saying. Although you seem to be much more civil lately! Congrats! :D

Thanks... I think.

Hillary is not interested in any real policy or questions. Everyone knows it.

You make a good parody of real conservatives.

I agree with you.

I disagree.

That clueless buffoon doesn't even rise to the level of a parody of a conservative.

Any rightwing cheerleader who claims that --""Hillary is not interested in any real policy or questions""-- has lost all grip on reality.

She --even though I do not like her as a politician-- seems to have an extremely strong focus on real policy and on political questions, moreso than any other politician in Washington that I can think of.........with the possible exception of Barack Obama or Bernie Saunders.

She's a statist. A nanny liberal. All for big government.... Would you like to refute my claims? The woman loves socialized health care, welfare, and censorship. She was a big sponsor of the bill (I don't recall its name) also sponsored by Lieberman that effectively limited the freedom to create video games that were violent or sexual in content. Which I find abhorrent. Those are not really claims, they're meat-headed ham-fisted smears with nothing whatsoever to back them up. The bill (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_bills&docid=f:s2126is.txt.pdf) which you mentioned does not limit the freedom to create those games, it limits the ability of minors to rent and buy those games - much in the same way they cannot walk into an R-rated movie without an adult. Huge difference. If you are so worried about freedoms take a look at what Georgie-Lameduck has been doing to the Constitution for the last 6 years. Which I really find abhorrent.

The socialized health care rap is a bunch of Rove-inspired nonsense, and for my money I would rather spend a couple of trillion on health care than Iraq anyway. I might actually get a flu shot on time that way. As for liking welfare, there has been no higher and perfect form of welfare in the history of the Republic than what Bush is doing with the defense and other industries. Giving them billions of dollars in bonuses for work which is over-budget and behind schedule.

Hillary would be an improvement over Bush, Condi, or McCain. But I don't think she's the best candidate the Dems can come up with. Nor is Obama.

Those are not really claims, they're meat-headed ham-fisted smears with nothing whatsoever to back them up.

Well, that's Borg for ya. What a right-wing nutjob.

for my money I would rather spend a couple of trillion on health care than Iraq anyway

I cannot think of anything I would not prefer to spend a couple of trillion of our taxdollars on than the clusterfuck of Iraq.

Piling it up and burning it would have been better (i.e., less harmful) than spending it on the insane Iraq war.

If you are so worried about freedoms take a look at what Georgie-Lameduck has been doing to the Constitution for the last 6 years. Which I really find abhorrent.
Why?! Where did I say I approve of Bush?! Why do people keep assuming that because I dislike Hillary, I automatically like Republicans?!

I disagree.

That clueless buffoon doesn't even rise to the level of a parody of a conservative.

Any rightwing cheerleader who claims that --""Hillary is not interested in any real policy or questions""-- has lost all grip on reality.

She --even though I do not like her as a politician-- seems to have an extremely strong focus on real policy and on political questions, moreso than any other politician in Washington that I can think of.........with the possible exception of Barack Obama or Bernie Saunders.

Your Right FT. Though I am not a buffoon, the name calling is not necessary. I am a Conservative and proud.


What is real policy ? Is your definition of real policy that tax increases to increase the number of people on welfare? Is your definition of real policy surrender and defeat that gives hope to the enemy? Is your definition of real policy a defacto impeachment by destroying the Bush administration so that nothing can get done?

destroying the Bush administration so that nothing can get done?

I'm afraid you can't pin that one on anyone but BushCo. :rolleyes: